Thread #287473937
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Coco on the front page!
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>>287474392
Ya, by a little bit.
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>>287474590
she improves a lot as a person later on in the manga
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>>287474590
Good visual contrast and deep relationship development over time.For me it's like Diakko written a million times better than the hacks at Trigger ever could.
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I wonder how their relationship will develop from here… at the very least I hope they can be friends again…
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>>287473937
If you're just going to spam pics at least talk about how woke the manga is and how the author is a crazy SJW. But of course there's nothing to talk about this show for the lowest common denominator other than homo ships.
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>>287475123
>>287475221
The peace sign is more politically volatile in Japan right now.
She's pretty outspoken about opposing Takaichi's policies. The peace sign is the symbol the anti-Takaichi faction has gathered around.
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>>287475232
Strongly disagree.
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This is such a downgrade lmao
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Man those animators are really set on giving a lush pair of milkers to Coco Mama
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Striking...
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>>287475679
Her fluff had to be sacrificed so that Tetia could become extra fluffy.
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>>287475596
I hope for that or tarco being endgame, but I remember an interview she had at anime expo she said, “People only treat it as a special issue because it isn’t the default boy-girl setup. That reaction itself shows why more diversity is needed.” Hopefully it will just be her making gay side characters and not any of the main relationships canon.
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The art in witch hat atelier is still very beautiful, but in the later chapters everyone got a case of baby face. Like their faces use to be so much more defined before the author decided to simplify they for some reason.
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>>287475510
It was comical how she kept saying that she is going to deport immigrants and have stricter conditions for it then issued about a million visas to SEA, recently started selling something like acrylic stand that says "sleep well, I will protect japan" literally trump 2.0.Inb4 calling me a libtard, i don't care whatever happens to every single person over there but it's fun to follow.
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>>287473937
So, I started watching this anime. And I immediately thought: it's such a woman fantasy. So I look up the author, and lo and behold, it's a woman. I don't mean in it in a derogatory way, but it's such an easily recognizable collection of tropes, it's basically a genre of its own already.
>one day a prince charming visits the plain jane heroine, who is whisked away into the magical land of adventures, where she finds herself surprisingly proficient in some sort of magic or whatever else
And stories like this were being told throughout the ages in the past. Hell, that stuff even made its way into more mainstream storytelling, with the huge success of Harry Potter novels.
Not that male power fantasy is all that drastically different though. Take the Martian Series, for example, which I jokingly call the first isekai. They share quite a few tropes with the women fantasy stories, but I feel like the prince charming figure is more or less unique there.
Anyway, by the end of the third episode I was wondering, how much can this series go into the whole political intrigue and magical system autism stuff? But women are more focused on character relationships, than abstract concepts.
Before, I've heard that the series features a complex magical system, but now I'm starting to have my doubts. How true is that?
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>>287476302
>Before, I've heard that the series features a complex magical system
You've basically already had all of the rules explained to you. Magic circles are not complex in concept, but what WHA excels at is that they can produce complex effects and you always understand how and why those effects are happening along the way. You're not going to get any secret hidden ultra-rare powers to complicate things, just taking the tools you already have and learning how to use them more inventively. Building up the depth of the system over time as a result without it actually being more 'complicated'.
> political intrigue
The entire story basically hinges on the Brimhats trying to prove that the Pact is bullshit, and force witches into situations where the only way out is to use forbidden magic and break the pact. Since the magic cops have a zero-tolerance policy, congrats you're a magic terrorist like the rest of us now! This is total bullshit, right? We agree. Lets go fight the system together.
This conflict is central to basically everything that happens, with the rest of Coco's magical education being giving her the context and tools to navigate this escalating situation.
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>>287476302
>one day a prince charming visits the plain jane heroine
>Harry Potter
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>>287476384
Why did (F)Aggot say that the shoes alone wouldn't help her reach the top? As far as we know magic doesn't give a shit about energy conservation. For as long as she keeps her feet together, maintaining the magic circle, she would've been propelled into the air.
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>>287476433
Small arrows + drawing a bunch of them in a circle pointing to the center = high balance but not much propulsion. That's why Coco draws one giant arrow on the sail and it's so strong by comparison but only ever propels her forward.Coco later makes herself and Agott sylph shoes with longer arrows that are much faster.
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>>287476433
She thinks an Outsider can't possibly pass a test meant for Magic users, she also knew Coco would have to be able to do it safely, so it's rather grim implication that she didn't care if Coco died during the test. She did try doing it the way you suggested, and she fell in the water.
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>>287476399
I thought the pact was more about keeping the arcane knowledge from the normies. The ban on "forbidden" magic was just the excuse.
Btw, didn't they say there was like only four elemental glyphs, the one you put in the center of the magic circle? Like fire, light, wind and water or something?
How do forbidden spells work? Is petrification water? Seems unlikely. I'm looking forward to fucked up body horror transformations when magic is used on humans, but, I guess, maybe I should lower my expectations.
And yeah, I figured as much about the evil witches (seriously, who the fuck translates "mahou tsukai" as "witches"?) want to trigger forbidden spells. But what I meant by politics is: was Coco really just a random victim of unchecked spread of forbidden spell "picture books", or was she targeted specifically to be planted in Gojo's magical school for underage girls in particular? But don't answer that, since that would be a spoiler. I'm not dropping the anime yet.
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>>287473937
>you can now wear this Witch Hat Atelier
ugh..
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>>287476550
>Btw, didn't they say there was like only four elemental glyphs, the one you put in the center of the magic circle? Like fire, light, wind and water or something?
Poor subtitle translation. Those are *examples* of central glyphs, not the only ones that exist. Though they might be the only ones that Coco knows at that point in the story.
> I thought the pact was more about keeping the arcane knowledge from the normies. The ban on "forbidden" magic was just the excuse.
Its understandable why you would think that at this point, since a lot of stories would go in that direction, but not this one. The age of magic really was full of horrors. Its worse than than you think it was. Consider that petrifying an entire building and everything/everyone in it is something that Coco did by accident, but in the age of magic literally anyone with a pen and common glyph knowledge could do that on purpose. The town drunk only needs a piece of paper to mind control any woman in town into sleeping with him. Your free will or control of your body can be permanently taken from you by anyone at any time and turn you into an living doll. Everyone in the world almost without exception has a gun, a rocket launcher, a nuclear bomb they can use if they see fit. Even CHILDREN, because magic is just that easy to use.
Forbidden magic is just the stuff that, when they were making the pact, they decided was too dangerous for anyone to be allowed to use. Even healing got the boot, because letting it be allowed was a foot in the door for truly terrible shit. They *gave up magical healing* because it wasn't worth the risk of the other things that sort of flesh-warping magic can do.
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>>287476739
is wokeanon having a stronk?
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>>287476399
>>287476550
Hmm, I wonder why someone banned the use of magical weapons of mass destruction and the dissemination of knowledge that makes it easy to build them at home (even unintentionally)
That's interesting xD
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>>287476824
It seems the ban is two-tiered. Ordinary people aren’t allowed to know how to cast spells, and wizards aren’t allowed to use particularly dangerous spells that could cause a catastrophe just because someone drew one crooked line in a huge circle.
As far as I’m concerned, that makes sense.
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>>287477278
Wise decision.
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>>287473937
>the guys that maintain a police state using mind wiping magic tell a elaborate history of the times that they didn't run a police state using mind wiping magic and how horrible it was as justification for running a police state that uses mind wiping magic
Wow, this 1984 tier world is not suspicious at all~!!
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>>287477517
Yeah its incredibly suspicious, but so far the history of the world as it has been told *seems* to be legit, with the actual negative focus being on the rigid enforcement of the pact itself and the problems it causes rather than any malign secret history.
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>>287476384
>NINETY DEGREES
Impressive, very cool
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>>287477051
>https://x.com/shirahamakamome/status/2028482708167647709
She actually tries to organize to get people to donate to help kids that have been sexually abused.
>https://tsunagg.org/
Like thats an actual shelter for sexually abused children type organization.
The author's just a nice lady.
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I finally caught up to the last episode. What is the purple haired girls problem? She literally tries to get Coco killed and nobody seems to really care.
I feel like I'm too old for this show. I have to constantly suspend my disbelief about these characters and their magic-hoarding cult-like organization. It's only 3 episodes in and its clear that they're the villains of the series. The rest of the world lives like medieval peasants and nobody knows anything about magic. The only way they could keep the status quo is to go and erase everyones memories, or disappear them to their underwater Hogwarts. They even seem to have to groom all their members from a young age so they don't question anything. It's pretty funny that the hats are shaped like dunce caps though, like it's a reference to how brainwashed they have to be to believe in the system they're a part of.
I'm not sure if any of this is going to be addressed later in the series. It feels like all the awful implications of the world are going to be swept under the rug and the author will just have Coco go, "but wow look at all the magic though!", instead. I hope I'm wrong and the show picks up in later episodes though. The animation is pretty good.
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>>287476399
>>287476550
>>287476706
Yeah I think WHA is essentially using "magic" as a proxy to explore the implications and really hard tradeoffs of hyper advanced technology, which we're experiencing IRL in an ever rising wave. When you get advanced enough pretty much everything has the potential become "dual use" in military parlance, where it has both significant valuable creative uses and significant destructive ones. WHA kicked off in July 2016, almost exactly a decade ago, and it's actually pretty fucking wild to look at what's happened even just then to now. LLMs weren't even a twinkle in almost anyone's eye at that point, neither was applied use of biotech like mRNA or CRISPR, mass drones, ever advancing 3D printing, etc etc etc. What happens if we get to the point where every household really could have some sort of universal molecular assembler? Sure certain exotic elements would still be hard, plutonium doesn't naturally exist, U-235 is still going to be ultra rare and take a lot of kit to purify.
But essentially all of the rest of tech doesn't depend on large quantities of anything particularly unusual element-wise. So what to do, because of course the same tech really does have enormous positive potential as well. The extremists have a point on both sides which is part of what makes the setup so good.
I sort of lean towards WHA looking at various 3rd paths in a very serious and realistic fashion, but I could see it going many different ways.
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>>287473937
Will Qifrey get another student in the future and groom her like his other 4 students?
>>287474025
This looks AI
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>>287485237
>Does she ship herself with totally-not-gojo?
Of course, her OC is Coco.
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This is the perfect anime to watch with my 12yo cousin which I introduced to and watched frieren with when she was 10. I even caught her playing at night in the frontyard pretending to cast spells and then bought a witch hat during a local festival. She likes to draw too, I might buy her the manga.
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>>287484861
I think a lot of it is the artist being more experienced drawing adult women than kids when she started and falling more and more into the moe-child artstyle as the series progressed.
Early Coco has a woman's face, rather than a girl's face, a lot of the time, too. Her last series before WHA was basically just an excuse to draw beautiful women in various situations, and that carried over to the first volume or so of her next one. Even if the characters were now kids.
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>>287485369
just finished the last episode.
the main girl just got her own personal pet-dildo?!
this show's just getting better and better
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>>287473937
why is a single dude allowed to have 4 little girls
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Umm, is she mad?
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>>287486032
just put your stuff in spoiler tags with the chapter number and I think it's fine
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Anime only here.
Is there a reason why even Qifrey is called a witch in subs?
Character clearly say "mahou tsukai", which as far as i know should mean something more like magic user or whatever.
Is it crunchyfags doing their usual localization shenanigans bullshit, or is there a reason for it?
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>>287487129
That is the official name, I think. It's on the japanese cover
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>>287487129
Damn. Should they use Warlock?
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>>287487341
Oh, that more or less explains it, didn't knew this english title is even on a jap cover.
>>287487408
Dunno, just mage even, if they are not specifically using gendered phrases like i dunno, majo ( 魔女 )?
But if it is in the official cover as >>287487341 showed, i got my answer.
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>>287487129
>>287487408
>>287487543
Yes it means "magic user" but the author clearly wanted to have it translated as "witch" as per every single localised copy of the manga from day 1 and that's perfectly fine unless you are an autistic psycho.
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what is qifrey doing to coco here?
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>>287473970
They are the worst 3 first episode of the season, if we were following the rules people should be dropping it by now but since everyone is saying this is the best anime ever we gotta watch it to the end.
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>>287487635
If there is an author's intent behind it, which there clearly is, if it is on a cover since the very start, i am fine with it.
I would just hate localizers doing their bit again, where they make some shit up.
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>>287488907Does he even know it at the beginning? The Brimhats erased his childhood memories and the memory-wiping spell is the only forbidden magic a Pointed cap could reasonably discover without too much trouble.
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>>287490536The seals are different and the effect being comparable is just a technicality Coco brings up to convince the Three Wise to play loose with the rules. Knowing the memory erasure spell doesn't automatically mean you know time reversal. From the way it's presented, Coco copies the spell after seeing Custas drawing it and then Beldaruit uses it for his time reversal hospital bed, he himself may not have known it beforehand.
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>>287490830
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Why the fuck is he scolding her and not the fagott girl who forced her into this?
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>>287491184
Agott deserves a scolding, but he needs to make sure the newcomer understands what she did was not normal, very unusual and infact dangerous. Especially because she lacks the common sense of a normal witch, this talk was necessary. Otherwise she might get talked into something dangerous again and again. It's not even like he raised his voice or something like that.
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>>287491411
Her faggotry permeates the work. Look at these manchildren discussing homosexual relationships >>287491400 >>287491423 like teenage girls.
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>>287491741Her mom is one of the librarians of the Tower of Tomes which is where the fourth trial takes place and where the copy of the book Coco is looking for is supposed to be. It seems obvious that Agott will be instrumental to Coco finding it once they take on the trial.
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>>287491890
She was consistently important during the festival and that's almost half the manga so I wouldn't say she's been in the background. Even when she didn't take the spotlight like during the second trial (both attempts) she was at least shown gradually mellowing out.
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>>287491505
That doesn't say much. You see what you want to see. Romance in those kinda stories is always debateable especially because those japanse are so vague with it. And even when a ship is confirmed it will still be discussed to death by the fans. The author could be the biggest nazi in real life and people would still find a gay ship in her work.
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>>287491988
What did she do again? Festival namek itself was such a blur to me, the slow chapter release (I think there was a hiatus?) didn't help either.
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>>287492012She was set to take part in the Silver Eve parade and show off her magic item to the people of the capital. Coco suddenly said she wanted to participate too (due to her whole deal with Custas and Tartah) and Agott was hesitant at first because she knew Coco would likely overshadow her. She mulled it over, recognized her selfishness, helped Coco get over her artist block when she couldn't come up with a spell and apologized to her for all her early behavior. When Coco's turn came up at the parade and Coco couldn't impress the jury, Agott came to her rescue and modified her spell to make it a lot flashier, guaranteeing Coco's success over her own. Later once the curtain leech appeared, Agott used her decorative seals to bring it away from the city and toward the forest. They're useless seals nobody remembers nowadays except her because she likes them, and they came in handy. Once Coco arrived, she and Agott came up with the plan to encircle the leech with the floating parade platforms and write the time reversion spell on them. Only the two of them could do it because of their extra-fast sylph shoes Coco made.
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>>287485600
>I even caught her playing at night
> pretending to cast spells and then bought a witch hat during a local festival. She likes to draw too, I might buy her the manga.
That's very cute of you.
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the creature
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>>287483960
Underrated post
On the other hand, we have long been aware of lethal chemical and biological weapons that can be produced with relatively little effort, yet terrorist incidents involving their use have been isolated and not particularly effective
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>>287476302
Hi Grok.
Its a shoujo. Shoujos always have this "prince charming visits the heroine". The other anime has the same tropes
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>>287475679
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>>287493653
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>>287493653
You guys are scaring me with all this talk about how woke the author is. I have to ask... is Agott a boy or a girl? I mean, her genitals. I need reassurance. Recommend me some picture books that would dispel my doubts.
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>>287492867
>On the other hand, we have long been aware of lethal chemical and biological weapons that can be produced with relatively little effort, yet terrorist incidents involving their use have been isolated and not particularly effective
But can't you say the same thing about Photoshop vs LLMs when it comes to propaganda or kids doing nudes of each other or whatever? I don't know if it's luck or something inherent to human psychology, but it does sort of feel like historically when capabilities are tied to skills we've overall done a fairly decent job of creating a world where if you're intelligent and dedicated enough to make use of tech and capital in sophisticated ways, you can make way more money and a better life and advance your pet causes further in legit ways vs terrorism or common criminality. And you end up with investment in the overall system (even if you work to warp the system in your favor), and are thus not inclined to just chaotically tear it all down.
But there seems to be potential points where a phase change happens, where something becomes so easy that any lazy rando semi-retard can do it. There is no longer any barrier to entry and in turn no longer a link between "you have to be pretty capable and dedicated" and "get 99% outcomes". Another example might be hacking vs script kiddies and actual professional "rent-a-malware" kits. Like, pre-2010 or pre-2000 had plenty of security breaches, but feels pretty different now. Dipshits "swatting" each other or launching pay-to-DDOSes over video games with their daddy's credit card or the like, or criminal groups doing ransomware even of places like hospitals with abandon.
So I do think objectively there can be some worry about the difference between everything needed for someone right now to bioengineer an organism, vs 10 years from now being able to tell an LLM
>"I want you to make me super flu and also use this DNA I took off the seat of a girl in class to engineer a goatgirl slave clone"
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>>287494190
>is this show for girls
It's for lolicons.
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Why the anime skipped this scene from episode 02 ?
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This post contains spoilers for the Silver Eve Arc and the events leading up to i. It also probably contains some controversial opinions on the manga and the author, though I'm not trying to be combative. I'm a new reader, so please bear with me.For years, I've had great interest in reading this because the artwork was so spectacularly gorgeous. I recall some anons posting that this was "leftist garbage", so when I started reading it I assumed that it was due to the story having blackies and browns, the usual /pol/ over-reactive nonsense. Then the story became more overtly about class struggle, how witches and the goyim had this really fake caste system that reflects tradition and convention rather than it does actual natural reality. Again, it was easy for me to assume that overzealous /pol/frens would take issue with this, though it did not bother me. I was still willing to give this the benefit of the doubt seeing how this manga is a favourite of many people, some of who I very much respect.
I remember years ago someone commenting on Mahoujin Guru Guru that magic systems based on magical circles were all nonsense and extremely impractical, but even though it is something that exists in this story for the sake of the visual identity and the aesthetics of the manga, it's the kind of contrivance I'm willing to go along with since the world building and the art were so very outstanding.
I've only just completed the Silver Eve Arc and I have to say that it kind of retroactively tainted my enjoyment of the manga, I thought it was a very low in my reading experience and that whatever nitpicks I previously had with it immediately became huge glaring faults. It becomes evident that the mangaka wants the aesthetics of something traditional and enduring while contaminating everything with modern nonsense like the gay witches, not the cute little girls hihihihi kissing variety but the pound me in the ass until the chocolate fudge leaks warlocks.
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>>287495197For context, I've read the official translation of the series, which is also gorgeously written and flows extremely well while perfectly capturing the feeling of the story. I don't know how fan translations compare to it, but I was decently impressed by the quality of the official English publishing. I'm saying this now just to avoid confusion as to where I'm getting my ideas from, since it may very well be the case that I've missed some kind of nuance or context.
The Pact is contrived nonsense of the worst kind. The fact that the Knights Moralis use forbidden magic ("magic turned against the body") to delete memories is a hypocritical and often disproportional punishment, since magic crimes aren't all equal in severity. But forced amnesia is this one-fits-all-solution that is employed even without a trial or even before gathering all the basic facts pertaining to the crime itself. The turning point for me was the infamous "sexual assault" chapter during the Silver Eve Arc, where they were going to mind rape one witch just because he created see-through goggles to ogle at the ladies, though it was not conventionally forbidden magic. The chapter is even officially translated with a "content warning", which I thought was very disappointing, especially because the whole chapter is the mangaka simply projecting her own very superficial morality.
There is never a convincing explanation on the banning of healingcraft other than some witches did naughty things in the past. Custas' plight is a very understandable one and the manga simply admonishes the practice by giving him mutant legs and turning his dad into a zombie, as if this was the only possible outcome of healingcraft. Also, Custas suddenly being a witch doesn't inspire much hope on the mangaka's storytelling, she ignored all the rules just to speed up the drama.
Thank you for reading my VERY IMPORTANT OPINIONS.
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>>287495227The pact being bullshit is the point. Hell, it is also the sketchiest fucking thing in the world, with how the people that control memory are also the ones that control information about the past. And the author is definitely intelligent enough to realize that.
Coco's entire thing that arc was saying, "fuck this pact, I want to help people and can't accept just letting them die out of principle."
The Knights Moralis are arguably more present and threatening villains than the Brimhats themselves. Every time they appear it's to abuse power in some horrible way because of their trauma or neuroses - hell, some of them like the one scruffy looking guy, don't even seem to have a reason to be cops and just lobotomize people for a living because they don't have anything better to do.
The head Knight literally went berserk and almost got thousands killed.
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>>287495356The thing is that there shouldn't be any kind of disagreement that a "moral order" is a very understandable and acceptable concept. So it's extremely disappointing that the author thought that she should turn the institutional embodiment of this concept into her antagonists, which is extremely foid-coded and cringe.
Also, the Brimmed Hats aren't depicted with any kind of nuance. So far they're just doing random things. When they first introduced Ininia I felt relieved since I thought that now they were going to finally introduce actual moral complications to the story by her actually healing Custa and his Dagha, but that doesn't happen at all. Custa just becomes mutant kid and for whatever fucking reason is just a witch now despite only learning about magic for a couple of weeks, and his father is just a zombie stuck on rewind. The fuck was the mangaka even thinking??
I don't want to press too much on the fact that homo warlocks are a thing in this world, but whatever, it's another disappointing trait of foid writing that she needs to project these modern virtue signals as if it added anything to the story at all. But by far my greatest disappointment is her not giving any sort of dimensionality, nuance or complexity to the Knights Moralis despite them being a perfectly sensible solution to the problem of witches wielding world altering magic with extremely fearful ease.
It's all so very, very disappointing. I don't know if this gets better after the Silver Eve Arc or not, but this made me want to drop the manga entirely. I have no faith on her writing ability.
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>>287496033
Because it's something that goes far beyond her institutional calling, it is motivated solely by her own feelings. And is clearly an abuse of her authority that the story does not condemn her for. In fact, if anything, it celebrates this outrageous act as a victory despite the extreme disproportionality of the punishment. It's like lopping off some kid's hands for stealing an apple, it's not that the crime doesn't exists or that it doesn't necessitate the satisfaction of justice, but the punishment isn't commensurate with the crime.
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>>287495890>the agents of the corrupt state are bad
How is that 'foid-coded'?
That is just a very common set up for any work of fiction.
There aren't many stories where the Knights Moralis wouldn't be very antagonistic.
I think me and you have different values, because I can't see the Knights Moralis being justified except if you totally remade them so they weren't judge, jury, and executioners with total fiat to attack people, except when there's a more powerful Witch around to scare them away (like Qifrey did at the riverbed).
Regarding the moral order, obviously you can't allow magic to be anarchic.
But the current system of taboo is obviously built to put principle ahead of utility. Where the leadership accepts evils and suffering to prevent an ambiguous greater evil that exists if one breaks those principles. Coco is a person that runs on empathy, so to her that is just unacceptable. She wants to save people, and will do it however she can, regardless of what precedents it establishes. It is possible that you could call that unwise, but obviously the rigid police state that the witches run is untenable all the same.
I haven't been very impressed by the Brimhats, either. How Custas was purely just a secret timebomb seems to have settled that there's not going to be much nuance to them.
They lack any real philosophical depth right now. They're just purely sadistic assholes that want anarchy for the sake of abusing others freely.
It is probably the biggest flaw with the manga that we're presented with an obviously bad social status quo, but there is no alternative given other than unclear and very specific reforms given to the rules, while everything else mostly stays the same.
It doesn't seem to be going anywhere obviously satisfying.
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i>>287495197
>>287495227
>>287495356
>>287495890I've never interpreted the story as such, though my memory might be failing me. To me the manga has always been a presentation of objective morality (the Pact) and subjective morality (brimmed hats). But the author (through Coco) hasn't taken a side on either extremes. On one hand, the Pact isn't a living document or some democratic consensus. It's a strict moral code that was born from bloodshed that is just by its nature. On the other hand, the manga clearly presents it as a limiting factor, hence Coco's insistence on "why can't we just help?", just like more naive political observers in the real world might just "want to feed the poor by taxing the rich". This attitude in the manga is at times affirmed but other times rebuked. The author doesn't shy away from showing that the complete opposition to the Pact that the brimmed hats represent brings about some of the most scenic horror in the series. I need not list examples. I don't interpret Coco's defiance to authority to the Knights Moralis as an opposition to the Pact. Coco works within the moral order of the Pact. Custa doesn't and he gets to live with a time-looped zombie. To me the message has been to work within the moral order, but challenge the authority's enforcing it.Also memory wiping and prohibition on healing magic isn't contradictory at all. Healing is an extension of no spells on the body. I think it's explained in one chapter that anti-Pact healing mages persisted for a while, but ultimately got banished. And the fact that the Pact gives itself the power to preserve itself is only self-explanatory. You need memory wiping and an elite society of magic users to preserve the promises laid out in the Pact - lest you want to banish magic altogether.
That's my two cents.
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It's a mistake to separate the art from the artist. Don't support people who are seeking to tear down the foundations of the society you live in. You aren't smart enough to predict future and what you think will be better is a self-delusion from not enough information. You'll die in the chaos or otherwise end up much worse off.
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>>287496200>They lack any real philosophical depth right now. They're just purely sadistic assholes that want anarchy for the sake of abusing others freely.While I don't disagree, it's worth pointing out there are some different motivations from how little we've been shown. Some became brimhats when they banished themselves by bodily modifications, some want to explore the depths of magic that the Pact forbids, and others do just want anarchy.
>>287496276
I'd rather explore the work itself and not be the annoying faggot that digs up 10 year old tweets.
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>>287496200Sorry for the twitterspeak. I said that it's "foid-coded" in the sense that there is this unfortunate trend in modern female writers to transgress and feel for the bullshit they can pull off. Hence why the literal embodiment of morality in this world is so overtly antagonistic. It's not simply the case that the institution was at some point benign and then became corrupt, it's that they need to be actively challenged simply because they exist as enforcers of morality and tradition.
The counterbalance here, of course, is supposed to be Brimmed Hats. But again, the mangaka insists on not taking sides for now so she can't actually develop any real complications or moral nuance despite the obvious glaring faults of the Pact.
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>>287496033
>>287496189It isn't meant to make her 100% sympathetic, but is also meant to show how and why a normal and kind person would join the lobotomy corps despite how horrible their duty is.
On the other side, Luluci is clearly becoming disenchanted with the organization, after seeing her boss go full psycho on as many people as he could reach.
She will likely defect to join Coco and co. in the next couple of arcs.
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>>287496213
>On one hand, the Pact isn't a living document or some democratic consensus.I would obviously reject the notion that the Pact is a strict moral code. If anything, it's more of a convention. Also, I know not of one piece of legislation that isn't a "living document" subject to reinterpretations if not outright amendments other than the Ten Commandments. And even the Ten Commandments had an Eleventh added to them.
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>>287496449The 'violent paladins that enforce brutal laws judiciously' is one of the most popular tropes in modern fiction.
Otherwise, we're calling Warhammer 40K a feminized series, lol.
Embodying a setting's morality, and that morality being objectively always good in every situation, are different things. When the Knights Moralis are hunting rogue Brimhats that are turning people into furniture or something, their level of brutality is justified. But when it is applied with a Cold War era level of paranoia on children and misdemeanor tier criminals, they're obviously heavily in need of reform and reformatting.
The Brimhats definitely fail to supply a counterpoint to the mainstream in society here. But given that the story is set up for Coco and her allies to form a 'third way' (fascism joke not intended), that is likely intentional at this point.
The solution isn't to side with revolutionaries that want to wreck everything, but to fix what is broken, I suppose. A Japanese perspective on social reform.
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>>287496580
>Otherwise, we're calling Warhammer 40K a feminized series, lol.You can make that case, yeah. But only because Games Workshop actively tries combat Warhammer fans who think Space Marines are cool. Regardless, that isn't the point you were trying to make and I don't with to go off on tangents, I acknowledge that you're right and that it is a common trope. My contention in this story specifically is that it doesn't provide any sort of balance with an alternative viewpoint seeing how the Brimmed Hats are also overtly antagonistic and whose morals are ill-defined, but also because this institutional corruption doesn't seem to be walking towards any kind of happy synthesis at the moment. They're just bad because they became bad or something.
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>>287496690
Maybe I did, but only because the tone of that chapter is triumphant, in which point you're just blaming me for the author's inability to convey this nuance you insist escapes me. The slimy Chud peeping Tom was successfully captured, pathetically pleaded his case, resists arrest by not only repeating but also escalating his crime, and in the end is mind wiped and sent to the Chud dungeon. So yeah, I really fail to see the nuance here.
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>>287496514The Pact hasn't had the slightest bit of reinterpretation, yet alone change to it. With the only exception being the time-wrap operating desk of Coco. They are clearly supposed to represent a more rigid and absolute moral order. There is clearly a juxtaposition of morality here and the Pact isn't the only extreme the author is warning about. I completely agree with >>287496580 that the direction of the manga for a long time has been finding some "third way" solution between unlimited magic for the masses and the black-and-white morality of the Knights Moralis. And I think Coco will ultimately end up working with the pointed hats as the author has set up Coco's counter in the form of Custa. Your issues with the Pact are yours only and not mirrored in Witch Hat Atelier. If she wanted to make the case that objective morality is bad/irredeemable, the brimmed hats wouldn't be presented as such gigantic villains from the very onset.
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>>287496704I agree that the story lacks that a substantial dichotomy in the conflict in terms of any 'side' providing for a better system.
The Knights Moralis are bad. The Brimhats are bad. The Pact is clearly built to support safety principles at the cost of suffering. But there's also no way to find a common ground here. The Brimhats aren't ideologically driven, they just have petty personal ambitions. The Knights Moralis are lawfags on a Judge Dredd level. The Pact turned Witch society itself into one where there's a good amount of paranoia about violating any of its tenets and even talking about changing them is reserved for people that are already ostracized.
In this we have Coco and her allies as our protagonists fighting everything, but they don't really have an ideology of their own. They oppose the world because they want to help people no matter what, but they don't have a systemic philosophical view behind this. Essentially we're relying on the author to have Coco as the mouthpiece create the 'good ideology' in this world, because it currently doesn't exist.
But this good ideology is also basically looking to be the Pact but with minor modifications made to it. But then that doesn't fix what actually makes the Pact such a problem in the first place. Because it doesn't change that magic is as easily used for evil as good.
Do we expect Coco to be capable of using mind wiping magic on someone who is trying to use magic for evil? What other solution do we have? Magical prison systems?
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>>287496859
>The Pact hasn't had the slightest bit of reinterpretation, yet alone change to it.I'm not sure if we can affirm this as a matter of fact, though I am an easily distracted reader so maybe I missed something, that is perfectly possible.
Ultimately, it is a bizarre that they have enforcers without the judiciary. Like cops with no courts. I hate that I sound like "WHAT IS ARAGORN'S TAX POLICY??" but this feels to me like a very clear problem with a code that is supposed to be absolute.
I'm in complete agreement with you and the other anon saying that the manga seems to be walking towards some kind of middle path, evidently so. But where I'm at right now in the manga, it doesn't feel like the author is dealing with this with any kind of deftness.
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>>287497168
Why would he want revenge on the knights if his memory got wiped? And right after he gets fixed he offers to give a guy a discount on his merchandise
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Witch Hat Atelier was a series that was once on the cusp of greatness and then just became something bland and meandering. Could've been one of the greats but settled by just being pretty. The sheer unrealised potential makes it the kind of manga that stings the most.
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>>287497441
Saying something like this is just saying that the story didn't follow along with what you day-dreamed about when it first started.
For the story meandering, that is reasonable to say in that there's no clear definitive plot progression, but at the same time it is a story just as much about exploring the world as it is about having a destination. It isn't like the characters are stagnant or anything.
It could have gone a direction of being a more structured fantasy series, if that really is what you wanted. But to me, it isn't like it missed potential by not going that way.
>>287497555
Mangafire, usually has good rips.
Weeb Central if all else fails, but it resizes scans. So not good for this manga.
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>>287497761
I would very much agree that it shares a lot of the same problems with Sousou no Frieren. But Frieren masks it better by very purposefully indulging in SoL and sidequests and simply not being singularly committed on the overarching objective, whereas WHA does seem to have a very defined problem to solve while not providing any sort of concrete structure towards illuminating and ultimately resolving this problem.
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>>287497589
>Saying something like this is just saying that the story didn't follow along with what you day-dreamed about when it first started.
That's a bit uncharitable. It is possible to identify with some objectiveness where a story might falter.
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>>287495890
>The thing is that there shouldn't be any kind of disagreement that a "moral order" is a very understandable and acceptable concept. So it's extremely disappointing that the author thought that she should turn the institutional embodiment of this concept into her antagonists, which is extremely foid-coded and cringe.No it's fucking not, that's the point. People who dictate moral to others and enforce it when necessary is inevitably a source for all sorts of corruption and power abuse.The author is actually subtle enough to show a lot of knights in a positive light. That some of them are genuinely nice and friendly people. But the whole point is that the concept itself is shit and even those nice people end up enforcing their own morals in a shitty way.
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I wish I was a brushbuddy that crawls inside the clothing of apprentices.
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For some reason the ending keeps reminding me of the Silent Witch ending.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT3cRQ2oOzU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKpNiW8T6ro
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This is so cringe. If I walked into an art classroom and someone showed me the lead smudged on their hand, I'd burst out laughing.
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>>287504310
>casting magic directly on your eyes so that you can see through clothes
You better believe that's a mindwipe!
One knight would try. The rest would shit their pants after the first one gets immediately killed by Zoltraak.
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https://courier.unesco.org/en/articles/kamome-shirahama-my-stories-can -speak-readers-who-feel-uncertain-a bout-themselves?utm_source=hootsuit e&utm_medium=&utm_term=&utm_content =&utm_campaign=
Well, this is genuinely unexpected the fucking UNESCO
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>>287505183
She's compromised
/pol/chuds were right again
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>>287505183
>unexpected
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>>287507024
What I like most is the “poisoned cookie” that the author of Onimai treated the leftists.
The story, art style makes it adoreble SOL that I personally enjoy,
But the “cookie” is trans fantasy fulfillment, but the “poison” is the hidden message how much better life is for girls.
The guy, being shy and generally below average, gets bullied until he withdraws into himself, while the girl, being an identical person, is welcomed everywhere, people strike up conversations with her, and she makes friends without even trying.
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>>287507328
>but the “poison” is the hidden message how much better life is for girls.
That was never just poison for leftists. It's poison for everyone since it's just demoralising. You think you're "owning the libs" when in reality you're just consuming propaganda, whether intentional or not, about how bad being a dude is and just how much better everything would be if you wore the skirt.
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>>287507328
That isn't poison.
That is what transgender people actually fantasize about.
That if they become the opposite sex, then their chronic depression and self-image issues will go away.
Onimai doesn't secretly provide a poison apple to leftists, it provides a fantasy to anyone with transgender tendencies to live vicariously through.
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>>287507427
>just how much better everything would be if you wore the skirt.
Well, in the recent chapter that is applied to a boy crossdressing, showing that you don't even need to be a boy to enjoy being a girl, so his argument is totally invalidated.
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>>287507368
It's guilt by association nonsense. Well, typically this would be nonsense. But in these times we're living in, these sorts of connections should be treated with warranted suspicion, which is an unfortunate reality of our current homo world.
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>>287507328
onimai is just pure fetishism, there isn't any message at all, even the whole gay thing is treated as a joke
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>>287507546
Thats how these types of things always go.
Some journalists select an artist they like to turn into a hero, and then the entire interview the artist just talks about how they're nothing special and that their works aren't really that complicated.
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>>287507427
>if you wore the skirt
In this case, it’s not about putting on a dress, but about a complete, profound transformation of the body at the molecular level.
There’s a gulf between these two things that’s too deep to even try to ignore.
After all, if Mahiro had “just put on a dress,” he would have only made things worse.
Despite its sci-fi elements, the anime also has a realistic aspect, showing exactly how differently boys and girls are treated.
The "poison" (specifically against feminists) is nasty here, also troons are right in that case: its better to be a girl.
But such a technology is a hard sci-fi and the lesser of two evils it to be average male that average male dressed as women.
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>>287507669
yeah trannies genuinely believe they can become a girl with hormones and surgery though and are surrounded by an echo chamber that convinces them they're totally hot. so that's still the message they're going to get from shows like that.
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>>287507532
I know, I enjoyed it as a cute SOL comedy
But I noticed but I remembered how anons complained that it was “leftist propaganda,” while I personally feel that if it is propaganda, it's actually the other way around, just well-disguised.
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>>287507669
You would think there is a difference, but there really isn't. Have you ever met someone who had terminal cancer and ran around trying to find all the miracle workers and all the miracle treatments? It's the same thing with the mentally diseased, in this case the gender dysphoric. The actual reality of HRT and surgery doesn't really matter, what they cling to is a magical remedy. Onimai will always be demoralising propaganda.
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>>287507669
>profound transformation of the body at the molecular level
With still the same logic of needing to take HRT, take it every month or you return to your normal body.
If the change was genuinely permanent it would easily change that logic but the whole shit of returning to your normal body if you don't take super anime HRT, it basically this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkjxw4BqVwc but anime
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>>287507156
>she know what she's doing
Clearly not, because of her, UNICEF officials are now going to be the ones diddling Coco and Riliphin.
>>287507368
The UN has been trying to censor, correct or ban problematic aspects of anime/manga/otaku culture for a while now while pushing the usual shit. Back then female mangaka told them to fuck off but they keep trying.
Having the UN endorse her can't possibly be a good thing.
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>>287507823
Okay, but you're talking about people with severe mental disorders who want to cut off their dicks. Yeah, it could be harmful for them, but luckily there aren't many people like that.
On the other hand, there are "oppressed feminists" everywhere.
I wonder if some of them noticed that.
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handsome young gal
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>>287508795
Sex with Coco and Richeh!
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>>287505183
Isn’t that author pro-palestine, why did she accept to do an interview with them lmao??
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>unprompted ranting about onimai
Genuine, non-buzzword schizophrenia. You quit beating on one dead horse to go back to an even deader one. Get a fucking grip on your life.
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>see lolis
>want to see what this shows about
>read the thread and other places
>pushed by the most insufferable faggots
>people care way more about how diverse it is than the story
>thread has political seething
>UN supports it
After seeing that reason to watch it post just being "it's written by a woman and it's way gay/diverse" I think I'm good
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Shirahama is definitely trying to raise lolicons, isn't she?
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>Coco
>Scar on the face
>Agott
>PTSD
>Tetia
>ADHD
>Richeh
>ASD
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>>287509157
>>287509693
>>287494418
>>287475679
>>287474280
she is extremely fuckable
hope butterchalk draws more of her
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>>287513094
I'm very critical of this series, but I think that's unfair. You should give it a shot because it's a really beautiful manga and the adaptation does it justice, so far at least. Also, some of the later chapters are genuinely whimsical and magical. Even if I'm of the opinion that the story never really reaches its true potential, I would never say this is a pass. Yes, if you are sensitive to the mangaka's political leanings being poorly projected on her story, this will probably get on your nerves. But as a whole, it's a really beautiful manga worth your time.
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>>287513982
the girls are tweens and not for lewd
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>>287514503
My, issue is mostly the people pushing it. I know you shouldn't let retards influence your opinion but when I'm using people going, "you should watch this because they have gay characters and it's diverse and one character has a hijab". It honestly makes me not want to bother, you're not even talking about the show just glad it has your politics
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Isn’t it great that people who seem like they’d love NBA memes haven’t discovered it yet?
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Started reading the manga, already on chapter 33, the world-building and lore are crazy good I hope they make a good live action some day. Truly feels like one of those worlds that can easily expand beyond the manga.
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>>287514722
I will say that I find the forced diversity stuff extremely off-putting, especially because it's not something that complements this kind of story in the slightest and by end you get the feeling that the mangaka wasted precious neuron fuel on stuff that should've never been her focus to begin with. There is some spoiler talk ITT that more or less captures my general opinions on where this manga fails for me, and it's especially frustrating because Witch Hat Atelier had the bones of classic manga and falls short. But regardless of how I feel about it, I will say without a shadow of doubt that some of the things that the manga does right let me with tears in my eyes. When it works, it really works.
If you are one to accept a suggestion from an anonymous stranger, give this one a chance. You can read it up to the conclusion of the second exam, since I believe that is where the story peaks.
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>>287515013
Since this isn't One Piece, I don't believe that WHA would ever get the live action budget it deserves to truly make it justice. Also, this is probably the kind of story that should only live in manga and anime.
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>forced diversity stuff
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>forced diversity
this is why nobody takes you people seriously
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>forced diversity
dropped
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>>287515542
>>287515707
Care to explain what exactly was so reproachable about what I've said? I wasn't even referring to the fact that the story features browns or blacks, though it's rather puzzling that there is ethnic cohesion until it suddenly doesn't. The main offence to me is the surprise homos, a forced inclusion that brings absolutely nothing at all to the story other than the author preaching clumsily that "gay people exist".
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>>287515916
>bait calling others bait
no u
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>>287515916
I'm the guy who made the original post. This is the first WHA thread I've ever posted in. I have no idea why anons are so paranoid and defensive. In that "offending" post of mine, I was actively defending the manga and telling anon to sincerely give it a chance. But you're laser focusing on two words.
To be perfectly honest, I'm getting sick and tired of this thread because I have no idea what is even going on. Have you guys been hounded by a particularly persistent schizo? If so, why is your response to that to just be unpleasant and to boost whatever polemical aspects one might have while expressing their thoughts on this story? Is just for the sake of engagement? Or as a more malicious kind of reverse trolling? Because I was telling anon about what I genuinely adore about the manga in that post and I see no cause for this to offend you in any way. Genuinely bizarre behaviour.
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>>287515216
Depends on what you think the point of the series is.
I think that the format is mainly about just exploring the world and the types of people in it as much as it is chasing a conclusion to the moral questions or dealing with the Brimhats as a group.
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>>287516078
Yes, I understand that. The story to me has two main objectives, one is the uncrystaling of Coco's mother and the second is dealing with the Brimhat question. The world building and the art work are top class stuff, I'm consistently amazed by how magical everything is. I'm far less impressed, however, about the way the story tries to morally challenge Coco and the viewers, it's all very clumsy and a tad bit unfocused.
My favourite part so far was the second exam arc, particularly the resolution with Beldaruit. This to me was just so very magical and an extremely rare accomplishment that is worth experiencing.
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>>287515834
>though it's rather puzzling that there is ethnic cohesion until it suddenly doesn't.
I think that for the story to make sense, you actually DO need people from what are clearly other regions. The pact only works as long as its scope is universal. If there was another nation or far off land with its own witches not subject to the pact, the pact couldn't possibly function because anyone could look at the kingdom across the sea and see "Hey, wait, those guys can all use magic why can't we?"
And considering that flight and window-gates are not uncommon, people mixing between distant lands is not just reasonable, it would be almost impossible to avoid. When you can teleport anywhere in the world with a gate, as long as they are any brown people on the entire planet you'll be having crossover with them.
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>>287516204
>The world building and the art work are top class stuff, I'm consistently amazed by how magical everything is. I'm far less impressed, however, about the way the story tries to morally challenge Coco and the viewers, it's all very clumsy and a tad bit unfocused.
Out of curiousity, what are the parts of the moral challenging of Coco that you feel are falling flat? The message or the methods?
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>>287516204
To me, I see Coco's mother as just the inciting incident that will obviously be tied off, but isn't really driving the story.
She's intentionally put in stasis where ostensibly nothing can harm her and she can't die as a way of basically saying, "we'll get back to this when we get back to this".
So for me, the driving forces are, a.) exploring the setting its magic and the peeps in it, and b.) dealing with the moral questions surrounding the pact, knights moralis, and brimhats.
With these having roughly equal weight in the grand scheme.
So when we get chapters just dealing with random browns or gays, it doesn't really feel like wasting my time because that is half the reason for the work to exist.
I agree that the morality questions are so far not really answered well.
We got convincing reason to think that everyone in power is wrong, but the 'correct answer' is still extremely vague and not really something that is 'ideologically sound'. Instead it is just, 'use magic to help people but also use magic to defeat people that are evil' without really answering the question of how to prevent magical evil in the long term that is better than the clearly psychotic Knights Moralis.
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>>287516128
It's very easy to bait them, just larp as a leftoid and call the show bad. They get mindbroken when their own kin goes against the group think so they start ranting about you being a fake leftist or something. Look at every WHA thread, just shit on the show with a leftist slant and watch the (you)s flow in. When you get caught just act like a rightoid that's so angry at the leftists and watch them continue to reply because they think they are farming (you)s while in the meantime they are derailing their own thread just by responding. It's just way too easy to bait nowadays, too many low IQ newfags on here brainraped by left/right politics.
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>>287516272
>I think that for the story to make sense, you actually DO need people from what are clearly other regions.
That part I will say makes sense. It makes sense that the witch world would have some degree of diversity given how socially interlinked and mobile witches are. But given the current cultural climate both online and in the real IRL world, it's always sensible to take these things with suspicion. I'm far more bothered by the homos, I'm very willing to give racial diversity a pass, but I cannot in good faith accept homosexuality in this story other than the author's political views being forcefully projected onto the story.
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>>287516355He had an absolutely horrible childhood and wants to give children a better one.
Next one is super spoilers.He also has a curse that means that if he ever feels peace of mind it will literally kill him. So the anxiety of being a sensei and his fear for the girls or making mistakes is an intentional way of making sure that he never feels truely happy and doesn't die.
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>>287516306
>Out of curiousity, what are the parts of the moral challenging of Coco that you feel are falling flat?
I will be discussing general spoilers.There is an established dichotomy between the Pact witches and the Brimhats. Witches are generally unified under the Pact, despite some very obvious flaws with the method, it is an understandable compromise to the fact that witches can easily uproot empires should they so wish. The Brimhats try to be the counter-argument to the many, many myopic flaws of the Pact, but the fact is that they are not unified under any sort of coherent objection to it, some are just vaguely anarchical but that's about it. So the story fails to provide a balanced view on this dichotomy, which is very disappointing to me. The Knights Moralis are antagonistic but so are the Brimhats, there doesn't seem to be a workable middle path here other than our protagonist simply being more pragmatic and less retarded than these two extremes. Which doesn't exactly make much sense since this should've already been loudly debated by actual adults who should all be painfully aware of the many problems that the Pact introduces. This shouldn't be something that an 11-year-old forces adults to consider for the first time.
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>>287516307
>We got convincing reason to think that everyone in power is wrong, but the 'correct answer' is still extremely vague and not really something that is 'ideologically sound'. Instead it is just, 'use magic to help people but also use magic to defeat people that are evil' without really answering the question of how to prevent magical evil in the long term that is better than the clearly psychotic Knights Moralis.
Part of what makes the story interesting is that I don't think there *is* a neat answer that can tidy up everything without consequences. The status quo is wrong, but there will never be a solution that is without risks or casualties. Even erasing magic entirely so that no one can have it at all would still get a lot of people killed as problems that used to be solvable are now impossible.
The best solution that I can come up with is to teach everyone magic again, but with a focus on making sure that everyone has basic and commonly available magical protections. For example, if you could come up with a spell that acts as a firewall against other people's attempts to cast spells on your person (maybe, say, making such spells redirect off of you harmlessly) and have people tattoo that on their person to be permanently immune to such spells? That would go a long way towards making forbidden magic less scary. You need people to know they can use magic for them to be able to make their own anti-magic defenses without being beholden to a central authority, but in doing so everyone has the ability to protect themselves from the really awful shit passively rather than in retaliation.
Of course, this is far from perfect. As we already know there is a LOT that can be done to hurt people even without directly targeting them. But no tool or form of power can ever be completely safe. Hammers are an essential tool, but you can't have a hammer that works as a hammer and which also cannot be used to crack someone's skull open.
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>>287516470
Go on Reddit to the more zoomer puriteen leftist spaces or go on Tumblr unironically. You will learn very quickly how to speak like a fag. Just mimic them, WHA fags like age gap stuff so be one of those age gap hating commies. This actually happened recently too a bunch of leftoids bullied a BL mangaka off the internet because she did age gap stuff and they were all Brazilian zoomer leftists kek. Larp as one of them in here and you will permanently rape the threads because leftist don't like to infight right now when they lost ground to rightoids, it makes it even easier.
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>>287516509Beldaruit and Qifrey show that at least some adults were always against the status quo, but otherwise didn't have a lot of reason to fight against it given the risks. Coco attracting trouble by existing has kinda upended things by reintroducing the Brimhats as a force that did more than lurk in the shadows.
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>>287516509Coco's primary benefit here is that she is a witch that wasn't raised as a witch, giving her a perspective that has been beaten out of most of her peers. The people who have been raised as witches under the Pact are inherently tainted by its culture and its assumptions, even when they disagree with parts of it they can't really question it to the degree that an outsider can because their worldview is based on the assumptions of the Pact itself.
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>>287516533
I guess 'reintroduce magic and make protective charms the number one field of research is probably the most reasonable solution that isn't completely giving up on a satisfying answer of any sort.
Skilled witches will make pilgrimages from village to village spreading new protection sigils all the time, I guess.
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>>287516307
The problem of the Pact is that it imposes rules rather than principles. There is no such thing as something being in the spirit of the Pact, you are either in violation of the Pact or you're not. As a Christian, I understand the need for black and white morality, but it's not like the Pact was delivered by God, it is a mere social convention. In fact, if anything, it's a convention that opposes a true moral expression of magic, which is the true core of the problem with the Pact.
So it's extremely frustrating that all the Brimhats are just shitheads pulling pranks or oohhh oohhhhhh ooooohhhh doing naughty magic stuff because reasons, because it should be extremely easy to see what the counterpoints to the Pact are and to formalise a cogent counterargument to it.
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>>287516417
>>287516427
Thanks
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>>287516706
I think the intent was to avoid the story just being an idealized revolutionary tale where the heroine leads an army against the establishment and overthrows everything and establishes the Good World.
So the Brimhats couldn't just be obvious good guy mages with common sense as opposed to the tyrannical Establishment. Instead they're anti-social bullies, while the Establishment are paranoid lawfags, and the solution isn't going to come from joining either 'team'.
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>>287516626
>Beldaruit and Qifrey show that at least some adults were always against the status quoThe problem with Beldaruit that genuinely irritates me is that Coco is the one who has to explain to him that Forbidden Magic was already being widely used within the bounds of the Pact.
>>287516641It makes sense that Coco, being the outsider, would be naturally disruptive given her lack of priors. But it just isn't sensible to assume that she would be the one to introduce these very basic bitch observations for the first time.
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>>287516775
Also to add, it makes the predominantly left wing users in the thread assume you are the in-group signalling they will be the out-group if they do not provide a reason for why they are consuming "pdfile content". Make sure to censor your speech with Tiktok adjacent gen alpha slang to sound more believable.
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>>287516834Beldaruit does have a lethargically charmed view of the world, for sure.
Too old and sickly to really accept that everything was as dire as it was. Instead he tried to make himself a fantasy realm of safety and comfort - a home for the world's broken children that he could fix.
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>>287516775
>>287516846
Thanks anon
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>>287516767
I would never thought to put it in those terms, but now that you mention it, yes, there are some revolutionary undertones here regardless of the execution.
The thing about the Brimhats is that in theory there should exist at least someone who is sensible. There is absolutely no way that Coco, "the Child of Hope", is the first person to stumble upon these obvious problems with the Pact and who isn't completely retarded about turning people into furries/mutants.
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>>287516706
The problem is that reasonable counterpoints to the pact are not tolerated, anon.
Lets say that you disagree with the pact, and you come up with a list of what you feel are common sense reforms that will allow certain kinds of healing magic while still banning fleshwarping, lets say proposing a tiered system where bodily magic is banned for MOST people but there is a training an approval process that trains and authorizes specific magical doctors who know what they are doing and operate with a kind of magical medical license.
That guy is getting mindwiped by the Knights Moralis for breaking the pact. No doubt about it. The only way he doesn't get mind wiped is if he successfully escapes into hiding, and for that to be viable long term he needs to be able to defend himself against any other witches that come after him or he won't last long. He is now a Brimhat. The only Brimhats that survive long term are the ones that stay hidden in some secret sanctum and never leave it and might as well not exist as far as anyone else is concerned, or the guys who are willing to tap into the powerful forbidden magicks that can let them go toe-to-toe with the rest of witch society.
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>>287516950
This is something that I'm interested in seeing the story tackle. And really hoping is addressed.
That the Brimhats are basically filtered for the most dangerous and mean witches around because anyone willing to do anything less than kill or lobotomize a fellow witch is hunted down and lobotomized by the Knights Moralis.We're basically just getting to a point in the story where society is starting to shake up enough to let that conversation happen, if it ever does.
I don't want that to conveniently turn the Brimhats into misunderstood good guys, however.
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>>287516950
>The problem is that reasonable counterpoints to the pact are not tolerated, anon.
Because it's based on laws rather than principles, yes, that is one of the major problems with the system. But the story itself contradicts this later by showing us that there are indeed divergent interpretations on the Pact that are all perfectly acceptable within the Pact.
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>>287516958
Lmao yeah these are even better sometimes, just take leftist talking points to start baiting rightists and watch the flame war ensue. Just depends on if you wanna false flag or not. Say WHA stands for trans rights with picrel or something.
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>In a world
>Where everyone could build nukes if they wanted to
>A ragtag bunch of misfit wants to release nuke-building tutorials to the common people
>But what if we just keep the nukes blueprints to ourselves and the people we trust
No
>But what if we just take the useful parts of nuke-building and hide the rest
No
>But what if we teach people about how nukes are bad
No
>But what if we teach everyone how to build radiation-proof shelters
No
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>>287516945
>Custas
He was easy to sympathise with, yes. But I don't think that the story handled the character all that well, unfortunately.Him suddenly being a witch for whatever reason was so very strange. Also, even if he is buttmad about what has happened to him, he could've only lashed out to Coco and Tartah to a point, seeing how he should know they were genuinely doing everything they could to help him.
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Nukes aren't really the best analogy because that's still a single device that causes a specific thing to happen. Magic will allow you to do any kind of fucked up evil thing you can think of.
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>>287517110The point is being a witch only takes one day with some ink and pen to learn. Coco went from not knowing anything about magic to achieving full apprenticeship in about 24 hours with barely any instruction.
It was that easy for Custas, a crippled boy living off charity, to become a witch. And it is that easy for anyone else in the world that is struggling to do the same.
But his power was more the product of the Brimhats fucking with his body via the silverwood and whatever other modifications they made. He was a roided up human guinea pig.
His rage was unjustified, thats true. But the bitterness for the two people that seemed to condescend to him for however long is understandable. He's a petty person by nature, I suppose.
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damn brat
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>Complaining about diversity in team and strong female leader
>Meanwhile Hello Abyss
>Zombie teen girl who is a brave, competent leader
>Shy but loyal robot boy
>Mutant girl with PTSD
>Wtf creature remaining moth with asperger
>A girl in a stone
>A man in a stone
Not a single normal person, every member is absolutely different (besides whistles), the leader is mentally strong and competent female
And among white whistle teams this is not exception but the norm
And the best part.
There is no complain that Made in Abyss is woke, because because those elements are natural there and stem from the weirdness of that world and the characters' personalities.
You couldn't find there feminist narration, forced diversity etc
Even Marluk dresses like that because Ozen is a weirdo like any other white whistle.
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>picturing her with that blushsoooo gay
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>>287517418
I agree, but "chuds" who are allergic to woke don't complain about it in MIA because there is no woke here.
Natural diversity is not woke, but forced is.
Strong female leaders are not woke, but feminist bullshit is.
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>>287517508god they're so precious
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>>287517588
The current cultural climate warrants merited suspicion of the inclusion of minorities in fiction. I don't think this is valid when it comes to WHA at all, but hey. But the world having casual homos is repulsive and adds nothing at all to the story other than the mangaka directly communicating to you her own views on homosexuality. I don't think this is an unreasonable take at all.
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>>287517527
It’s simply her passion and her life’s purpose. Besides, compared to other white whistles, she’s a perfectly normal, well-balanced person.
>>287517591
>muh pedophily
Just hypersensitivity of Americans who joins extreme degeneracy with excessive prudishness. And its not about polarization, the same American can be both at the same time.
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>>287517513
So...uh...how do the pointed caps feel about Illusion magic? If you were to change the area around an opponent Into something that makes them think they are trapped would you get away with It? What If you showed them an Illusion of something that would mentally hurt the person like a bad memory? Could you defend yourself by using Illusions as 'attacks' like say flames that aren't real?
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>>287517691
>>287517513
My bad didn't mean to reply to that.
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>>287517666
>compared to other white whistles
Dude, she was a white whistle for how long? like some months inside abyss time? I just say I feel that riko would turn into a really fucked up adult like any white whistle with that attitude, just give her time.
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>>287517666
>hypersensitivity
The story is obviously written by a guy with pedophilic desires, even if he wouldn't touch a real child.
He knows what he's about, you know what he's about, either you drop Made in Abyss when you realize it or you accept his style and keep going.
People that would otherwise bitch about the author's enjoyment of strong women accept that because MIA otherwise passes their test by being 'not progressive' on account of the author being a pedophile.
Look at Hellsing as another example. A story written by a guy that wants a strong woman to smash his balls, but passes because he also drew Seras as a conventionally hot woman.
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>>287517666
I'm not even American and I find this take silly. The Japanese themselves were already criticising degeneracy within their own society for a very long time. Just read Apocalypse Zero for more on this. Conservative sensibilities exist in every corner of the planet.
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>>287517580I think one reason I like these two so much is it gives me a deep longing inside for a friendship with someone who likes me and who I can be myself around. It reminds me of the ways my childhood was fucked up and how I'm still dealing with the effects from that.
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>>287517691
Stuff like fire that doesn't burn is unofficially heavily regulated because of the fear of some children learning the wrong lessons about the laws of physics.
But I can't really remember if genjutsu type spells are a common thing otherwise.
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>>287517760
>>287517763
Truth be told many conservatives like strong women, but there is a difference between "strong independent radical feminist woman that's fugly" and "strong woman that's hot and just does her job"
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>>287517819
Not really, you can have gay characters and non-white characters just don't be preachy. WHA is fine in this regard outside of one aspect that can be ignored. Shonen does this well. If you think just inclusion for inclusion sake is good then erm.
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>>287517866
Most yuri manga that are specifically set in the genre suck.
I've read a ton of them and the ones that are worth reading are either jerkoff bait or soap opera nonsense, and whats between is rarely worth engaging with.
But there are good manga that have lesbian relationships in them, and while Coco and Agott aren't confirmed and may never be, they're at least a cute couple that naturally drew closer over the course of an interesting story that is focused on other things.
I'm not reading WHA for them, but their potential relationship is a welcome addition on the side. This is different from typical yuri works that are all about the relationship.
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>>287517858
It just doesn’t matter to me much if at all. I think the people who like it largely because of the inclusiveness are weird too. Not as weird as the people who hate it because of that, but still. You should like it because the characters are good, the world is interesting, the art is phenomenal, and the storying is engaging.
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>>287517971
>You should like it because the characters are good, the world is interesting, the art is phenomenal, and the storying is engaging.
I agree but it's almost a guarantee that when an author does inclusion for inclusion sake (not really talking about manga since this doesn't happen often) it is almost always poorly written. Why? Because it's a token to grab an audience not by merit of the writing but by "look I added xyz black people now please buy my slop!".
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>>287517866
idk man I'm not a yuri connoisseur they just feel "real" to me in the way a lot of other ships don't. Maybe it's because they act a lot more like real kids.
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>>287517967
You have also the lesbianest lesbian of lesbians in the Railgun, and it's just a natural element of a story and sense of humor
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>>287517792
>Stuff like fire that doesn't burn is unofficially heavily regulated because of the fear of some children learning the wrong lessons about the laws of physics.
Huh, neat. That's a pretty fair reason too.
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can we pretend that airplanes in the night sky are like shooting stars?
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>>287517866
It's a very specific high I've been chasing ever since Trigger cockteased me with Akko and Diana.
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>sparkles in her eyesOhhhhh...
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I'm so proud of her!
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>>287519198
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>>287519626
The chapters are based around what they're cooking, then the last page is like a cookbook with the detailed ingredients and preparation. Of course the ingredients are mostly fantasy plants and animals and the preparation involves their magic-powered appliances. I'm sure you could more or less replicate them with enough imagination, but I'm not that good. That aside, it's really comfy and a nice addition to the main series since that has very little slice of life.
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Nice thread
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>>287519868
Dude, even the manga threads are nothing but gay ship spam. This is a shallow series for brainlets. There's nothing to talk about, yet retards insist on keeping a thread up all week, which leads to this.
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I'm happy the thread I made stayed around enough to reach the bump limit. I love this series so much.
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>>287520276
There was the one scene where tartah seemed kind of flustered but it really doesn't seem like Coco is interested in him in that way. I could see it working if the author decided to make it aa thing. But arkco just appeals to me way more (but I'm not about to shit on it if it's your thing though).
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Oh I understand now, thanks anon. But with how everything is going in story(agott being one of the first people to appear in Coco’s mind when she thinks about the people she holds dear.)and with author liking arkco fan arts, and they obviously have no hesitation in making a gay couple canon… I don’t think that will be enough for tarco to be endgame… it might as well be a sunk ship T-T… I’m just kidding myself to believe otherwise.