>>18432061

I mean, The US and its allies voted repeatedly to keep Pol Pot the Khmer Rouge as the legitimate representatives of Cambodia. This is something they often forget to mention while talking about Pol Pot.

>>18432062
Modern Israel and Taiwan are technically both creations of the USSR. They never would have survived without Soviet backing in critical times. Another reason Russian citizens shouldn't miss the Soviets because they created their modern enemies.

>anon discovers realpolitik
The Kuomintang were just the safer bet at the time.

Mao won his civil war on the backs of the peasantry, not dockworkers and university students.

>>18432066
USSR after Trotsky was kicked out made some really stupid choices

>supporting KMT indirectly leading to modern Taiwan issue
>funding and supporting Israel
>Gave Ukraine its current borders (Donbas 1921, Crimea 1954)

Literally all of these current issues have some origin with the USSR's foreign policy being shit/ revisionist.

>>18432062
also both the American bloc and China and it's allies sanctioned Vietnam for decades because they defended themselves against the Khmer Rouge and deposed Pol Pot

>>18432078
Funnily enough it was the State Department that recommended that Truman abandon Taiwan to the chicoms once it was clear Chiang was doomed on the mainland in the hopes that it would it result in a "Titoist" China (i.e. one not aligned with the USSR).

>>18432099
>it would it result in a "Titoist" China (i.e. one not aligned with the USSR).
This part happened thoughbeit

>>18432064
And both are cursed by leftists to this day lmao

>Marxist Realpolitik is really just aligning with anyone who would agree to
I think you are overestimating how reactionary the KMT was during this period. The Soviet Union certainly preferred the CCP but before Chiang's consolidation of power the KMT had numerous committed marxists such as Chen Gongbo. In other words it wasn't purely realpolitik the KMT was a revolutionary project

>>18432061

The KMT was as much of a revolutionary "Pariah" as the Soviet Union at first. This is something people forget about. There's a reason the Soviet Union actively gave them guns.

After the 1911 Revolution, China fractured into territories controlled by various warlords. The "official" government in Beijing (the Beiyang government) was recognized by Western powers like Britain and the U.S. Meanwhile, Sun Yat-sen’s KMT government in Guangzhou was viewed as a group of illegitimate rebels.

Sun Yat-sen grew increasingly frustrated when Western democracies refused to help him unify China. This led him to adopt a fierce anti-imperialist rhetoric, aiming to tear up the "unequal treaties" that gave Western powers control over Chinese ports. This made him a threat to the established global order; much like the Bolsheviks.

The Soviet Union was the only major power willing to treat the KMT as an equal. In 1923, the Sun-Joffe Manifesto solidified an alliance based on shared goals.

This "pariah" alliance lasted until 1927. After Sun Yat-sen died, Chiang Kai-shek launched the Shanghai Massacre, purging the communists and eventually pivoting the KMT toward the West to gain the very legitimacy Sun Yat-sen had been denied.

>>18432061
>Marxist Realpolitik is really just aligning with anyone who would agree to.
Dialects

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>>18432219
>>18432225
First 12 minutes in link are a decent reenactment of the April 12th incident - guy with the gun is implied to be Chiang Kai Shek.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm3D5PNmn9I

I had never heard before KMT was aligned with Russia or that KMT had a left wing faction before 1927.

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>>18432219
>>18432225

>>18432061
Did you know Fidel Castro declared three days of mourning in Cuba after the death of Francisco Franco? Now, that's an unexpected crossover

>>18432078
Stalin did everything he could to delay the world revolution.

>>18432061
>USSR and Kuomintang actually used to be allies before KMT randomly decided to massacre all the Commie sympathizers in Shanghai in 1927
>have conflict two years later
Japan could've teamed up with the Soviets.

>>18432125
>>18432099
Now China winning economic stage over yankikes.

>>18432910
Better dead than red.

>>18432097
>>18433258
>Franco recognize Hanoi government and respect Vietnamese determination
Interesting point of event.

Not trying to derail the thread, but as a commie, I was told by commie YouTubers to "read nigga read" because the bourgeoise are scared of normal people learning about communism and it's history.

But the more I read about communism, both historically and philosophically, the more I think it is meaningless crap. The more I read, the less of a communist I become. I still like the idea of worldwide solidarity and working together and live happily, but that is not communism in practice. Communism despite so much talk of internationalism and shit has remained extremely nationalistic, a Turkish communist and an Armenian communist would never work together, they would rather kill each other first. The same for a Mexican communist and an American communist.

The worst part, communists still ally with capitalists and creat capitalists regimes like mentioned itt.

You just don't understand how fucking heartbreaking it is. Meanwhile capitalism is extremely consistent both in practice and in theory, it is extremely evil and it is proud to be.

I guess humans really are not made for solidarity or communism, human greed will always triumph.

>>18432064
Shouldn't had supports the Serbs and abandon League of Three Emperor to form alliance either with France...

>>18432062
Pol Pot was overhated. Physically removing academics and urbanites was something that was needed then and is needed now in the west.

>>18434616
He deserve get bucked from Viet chads

>>18434577
What Kai shek says in this scene.

>Nice silk but you chose the wrong color.

Because the reds had been using a textile factory to produce their flags and as base of operations.

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>>18434582
You’re absolutely correct. One needs only look to the leading Marxist academic in the west, Slavoj Zizek who since 2022 has increasingly called for arming NATO and Zelensky and supporting rampant militarism. The Karl Marx who fled from country to country and lived amongst radicals as the target of west Europe’s government certainly would have wanted that.

>>18434582
I said that specifically in relation to this

>> The worst part, communists still ally with capitalists and creat capitalists regimes like mentioned itt.

Most (read, not all but most) western Marxists today are spokesmen for the Democrat party politicians and for big business. Opposing Israel is maybe the only legitimate Marxian position most of them hold.

>>18432061
Mao and Zhou reached out to FDR in early '45 to secure good relations, finally defeat Japan, and avoid getting sucked into the Soviet sphere too far. Their outreach got intercepted by the KMT aligned China Lobby and undermined it - FDR never received it and was dead within a few months. The China lobby was deceiving everyone about Chiang and the KMT when US advisors on the ground saw from a mile away that the communists were going to win the countryside and gain power. The US helped the warlord and the KMT escape to Taiwan (which should have been returned to the mainland in the first place) and pushed China into the arms of the Soviets. as they were all that was left to power balance with the cold war setting in. Then the China lobby and the (((anti-communists))) began their witch hunt over "who lost China" which led to Asia experts being purged, which directly impacted everything from Korea and Vietnam, the latter of which absolutely should not have led to war.

>>18434582
Trotskyte internationalism is a fucking joke. National socialism is and always has been the obvious solution to the imperial cabal lording over the capitalist system and that is demonstrated by how many times it went to war against nationalist-socialist governments and movements.

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>>18434701
Dude, the capitalists in France and London are the ones propping you useful idiots up currently.

>>18434709
Professionally retarded post.

>>18432061
Soviets and KMT were also allies during the Second Sino-Japanese War. USSR gave China fighter planes

>>18434746
>allie
Nope.

>>18434754
Yes

>>18433258
https://ieg.hypotheses.org/3786#e26045fe-14b2-43be-a16f-5155d6eb3c83
According to the Spanish journalist who broke the story, it was intended as a small symbolic gesture to the Spanish ambassador and Castro was embarrassed when news spread around the island.

>>18434816
That's nowhere near as embarrassing as the OP one because Russia/ China to this day are eternal enemies of Taiwan while Cuba and Spain have never really gone at it over any issues including agreeing on Israel for example.

Stalin literally told Mao to stop advancing and to make a coalition government with the kmt, he also told Tito to stop supplying weapons to the Greek communists, all of this because it would anger the West.
Stalin was a pussy lmao

>>18434918
Internationalism came second to realpolitik every time in the cold war. Communist states often had worse relations with one another than with capitalist states.

>>18432225
>The KMT was as much of a revolutionary "Pariah" as the Soviet Union at first. This is something people forget about.
>The Soviet Union was the only major power willing to treat the KMT as an equal.
This is also true of the relationship between Russian revolutionaries and Turkish revolutionaries. Lenin and Atatürk supported each other against counter-revolution and imperialism. This has been somehow forgotten by the world.

>>18435102
Mao Zedong's friend list is unironically Pinochet, Richard Nixon and Ted Heath.

>>18435144
Lenin was initially pro-central powers agent