Shoot the drone

>>65214773
>How does a drone accomplish this though?
Combo of top armor being very thin and autoloader carousels being genuinely a horrible idea.
>How do tank manufacturers mitigate this?
Hard kill systems and training crews not to sit immobile on a fucking road.

>>65214793
>training crews not to sit immobile on a fucking road.
This isn't going to work that well. You can train a man for 100k hours not to get shot in a war and he will still get shot.
>Hard kill systems
Such as? Surely not just slapping more ERA

>>65214793
nothing to do with carousels
these explosions are caused by the detonations of tank shells kept in the turret for some reason

>>65214773
better cope armor unironically. Its quick but if you watch it frame by frame you can see the drone thread itself between the slat armor on the rear basket and the roof structure to get a clean hit with likely a shaped charged on the turret armor.
A drone can line up a shot on even a small section of bare armor so you have to go full turtle tank to fully mitigate small drones

>>65214803
My leopard tank has ammo in the turret. I also store my food in there. Is this a concern?

>>65214803
it has everything to do with carousels because all ammo is bunched closely together right in the middle of the tank, right over propellent cases made out of tnt-soaked paper

not even the old early cold war tanks with large shells strewn across the turret and hull are this explosive or combustible.

>>65214819
Whats the solution then? Manual loading again?

>>65214801
>This isn't going to work that well
It's going to work better than sitting immobile on a road.
>Such as?
There are already a plethora of them and even more in the works. Some use a directional explosive at close range. Some new stuff is gun based. The next gen US tank will have an unmanned auto cannon on top basically for this express purpose.

>>65214803
It has everything to do with carousels, retard. Hull stores with blow off panels don't cook off like this video. There's a reason western tanks don't toss turrets.

>>65214834
>There are already a plethora of them and even more in the works. Some use a directional explosive at close range. Some new stuff is gun based. The next gen US tank will have an unmanned auto cannon on top basically for this express purpose.
Yeah but those run out of ammo. Drones are dirt cheap and theres gorillions of them. Surely toughening up the hide is the way to go

>>65214829
That or autonomous tanks, if your concern is crew survival. But every T series is just an explosive coffin now.

>>65214834
>There's a reason western tanks don't toss turrets.
I remember pics of blown up turk L2A4 with missing turrets.

>>65214801
>Such as? Surely not just slapping more ERA
APS, nigga. Do we have to spoon feed you everything?

>>65214840
Im not autistic enough to be thoroughly learned in matters of modern warfare, hence why I have to make a thread here instead of figuring everything out on my own.

>>65214847
>Im not autistic enough
My apologies, anon. Git gudder.

>>65214836
You can't add enough armor to stop this, idiot. Not with something that has to be at all mobile. You add more armor and they just add larger payloads. Running out of ammo isn't a concern because if you're somehow expending all of it on one mission, you were doing something fucking wrong in the first place. Or someone was for you to be in that situation.

The new meta will be for auto cannons and machine guns with automated firing systems that can detect and down a drone at distance. Probably optical and laser based scanning and targeting. The crew's warning they're being targeted will be these systems engaging a drone, instead of finding out how high their turret can fly.

Well, ziggers won't ever afford these systems. So I guess rather than turret tossing the current western tank warning is some gnarly splinters bouncing around the cab. Still better survival odds than a toss, though.

>>65214773
is this recent? that tank looks to be in decent condition (before exploding) and I can't remember the last time I saw a russian tank that wasn't a rust bucket and/or some Frankenstein creation

>>65214855
Why isn't this on the new L2A8 though? Or is it for the new MGCS

>>65214871
I won't even begin to say I understand yuro retardation. The Abrams has had Trophy for what has gotta be at least a decade by now. Yurop as always is behind the curve and waiting for the US to just give them the technology, most likely.

>>65214810
>Is this a concern?
Yes, the detonation of the stored ammunition may overcook your food and ruin your meal. A very serious wartime risk.

File: IMG_3497.png (2.1 MB)

>>65214834
>It has everything to do with carousels, retard.
nope retard, see >>65214839

>Hull stores with blow off panels don't cook off like this video.
I’ll go ahead and assume you mean blowout panels, which the t-90m
has for example

>There's a reason western tanks don't toss turrets.
nah
see pic related

>>65214893
Where do I put my MREs then? I need space to move in the tank and theres no where else other than outside. I really dont want to put it on the floor.

>>65214886
the Leopard 2A8 has Trophy integrated, not sure what US tanks have to do with an Israeli company supplying their tech to european tanks

>>65214894
>1 off photo vs the hundreds of videos of T series turning crews into airmen
It's the carousels, churka.

>>65214907
I don't really care if the krauts have it or not, really, to be honest. They'd probably lose a 1v1 against Romania currently so it's difficult to take them seriously.

The US is going to move to auto cannon and MG based systems and Trophy will go back to handling traditional AT threats.

tank mounted anti-drone machine guns/autocannons feels like polishing a turd

>>65214953
Well if you have a better idea, please, do share.

>>65214773
The primary solution is to not use any tank derived from the T-72 because their design is fundamentally flawed.

>>65214953
They're a last line of defense, not the first/only.

are there any inrerceptor type drones out there that are actually capable of flying around and just slicing optical fibers?

>>65214976
We will probably eventually see interceptor drones equipped with rapid fire 22lrs or something. I mean they already exist to some extent, there are videos of gun equipped drones hunting drones. The future of war is WWI drone on drone dogfighting.

>>65214773
Same way planes with rockets were countered in WW2, integrate SPAA into armoured unis.

>>65214773
>Shaped charge at point blank?
The explosively formed projectile is created by the explosion of the shaped charged which can be detonated at contact (like an rpg) or above the top of the tank ( weak area) like from the TOW missile that flies above the tank and explodes shooting the efp downward into the tank. I saw a vid of efp warhead on a robot sitting some bushes and it sits and waits for a heavy vehicle to come by and it auto detonates and shoots the efp like 10 or 20 feet and destroys the target. The heavier the armor the closer it needs to be.

>>65214773
Very hot copper from the RPG warhead meeting unprotected ammunition inside that T-90.

>>65214773
Russians cannot into wet stowage, bustles or blow-out panels.

>>65214773
>How does a drone accomplish this though?
By the target being terrible slavshit, like rational minds have been telling you guys since the 2000's, but no, Russkie garbage is le rugged and le functional and le manly unlike that gay homo western shit

File: piaa.png (17.0 KB)

>>65214894

>>65215272
We never thought Slavshit was good, it just had a style and was contrarian.
And it used to be cheap AF surplus.

File: Proof nigger.jpg (43.6 KB)

>>65214894
>blowout panels, which the t-90m
has for example

>>65214863
no it's old footage
you can tell because Russian tanks in the current year are a very rare sight

It seems that chain reactions can result in flames erupting from any hatch, or in instantaneous explosions that even destroy the tank's hull. In the latter case, did the jet from the HEAT warhead come into contact with the explosive charge inside the tank's HE round?

>>65215290
Russians store propellant and the munitions close by. Usually these russkie slavshit conflagrations are caused by the copper jet igniting the propellants stored in the slavshit tank's caroussel.

File: explodium.webm (3.9 MB)

>>65214773
Shaped charges tend to off at a standoff about 2-3m to allow the penetrator to form into the 'shape', but some of the bigger ones are completely capable of sending some hot shit through your tank at 25m away
In terms of EW, it depends on what signals your jamming and what signals your enemy are using, there is no real 1-switch and forget unless you're using some kind of arc-gap shenanigans in which case no one has comms, not you, your side or the enemy either. So it does need accurate and active use to get the most out of it, majority of the time anything radio-wave is good enough though.

In any case, there are things your armour can do by itself, there's things it cannot.
The rest is combined arms, same as it is for protection against gunships and CAS, your tank has no solution to those, so someone else is required to secure that avenue

File: T-90m 5.webm (3.5 MB)

>>65215280
You can clearly see the T-90M blow-out panels working as intended in this video. LOL

>>65215355
>155 T-90M: (1, destroyed), (2, destroyed), (3, destroyed), (4, destroyed)...

>>65214894
Pic related was a result of ied

>>65214810
What food do you take with you?

>>65214773
A tank? In this economy?!
This is an old video right?

>>65215348
Legendary webm

>>65215348
>>65215383
Anyone have the orbital turret launch video captured by the Chinese news crew?

File: turret toss paki patton.png (1.6 MB)

>>65214819
>not even the old early cold war tanks with large shells strewn across the turret and hull are this explosive or combustible.
Oh they will definitively explode if they take a hit that strikes one of the rounds, the T-80 however (and other slavshit) wins in the turret toss competition since it can carry 38 125mm rounds which are way more energetic then the older tank rounds so it can toss the turret higher and further. If the tanks main gun rounds are not seperated from the crew compartment with a blast door then it is gona run the risk of performing a turret toss.

Reminder for everyone in this thread. The M1 Abrams is the ONLY active tank in the whole world that has EVERY round seperated from the crew compartment with a blast door and blowout panels.

>>65214829
Blowout pannels combined with highly insensitive munnition and propellent. I remember reading how the germans were doing testing on a new type of propellent for tank guns. It can only be activated with a electric signal from the tank gunner pulling the trigger, you could toss the propellent into a fire and it would just slow burn or not react at all.

As for insensitive munniton there was some talk of a new type of high explosive that also could only be activated by a electric signal from the fuze on the front of round. It would also only slow burn or not react if exposed to fire. You could also shoot at it with a gun and nothing would happen.

This old bofors demo show why insensitive munition is good
https://youtu.be/CwOa0_u-izc?t=462
>comb b violently explodes after being exposed to a fire for 2 min 30 sec
>IM PBX burns slowly and has a very weak explosion after 4 mins

Don't use tanks, russia has stopped deploying armor at all.

File: toss world champion '22.webm (2.9 MB)

>>65215402
Turret is the blowout panel da?

>>65215442
That's the one!
Thanks!

>>65214773
Is that a Russian or Ukrainian tank? I want to know if I should cheer or get mad

>>65215458
RU, it's an old video, you should be able to tell by the logo

>>65215460
Seen the logo but Russians have them too. Anyway thanks. Tanks will come back, EW will one day work well enough to jam all drones and the fiber optic ones will probably always be pretty rare.

Crazy to think how many drones they could have built with the money that went into the tank though

>>65215466
also the T-90 is not used by ukies

>>65215467
I don't know tanks well enough to spot a T90 vs T72 fren. And I guess there isn't much point learning now, it would be like spotting different types of biplanes

>>65215482
>I don't know tanks well enough to spot a T90 vs T72 fren
You're in luck because it's basically the exact same tank.

>>65215362
So 155 was a lie or did they realize sending more was embarrassing?

File: T-80BVM.jpg (276.1 KB)

>>65215466
>>65215467
>>65215482
It is a T-80BVM and Russia is the main user of the T-80BVM. Also helps that it does not have ukie camo pattern.
>engine exhaust at the rear
>3 vision blocks for the driver on the front
>relikt era.

>>65215488
What was the aggregate rate that they made new hulls? Less than 36 a year?

>>65215466
>EW will one day work well enough to jam all drones
Not unless you pump in enough energy to ensure every tank doubles as a popcorn machine and every crewman becomes a sterile lobster. But sure, for the time being EW kind of works.

>fiber optic ones will probably always be pretty rare.
That makes no sense, fiber is cheap and since it works it will be scaled up as much as needed.

>>65214773
Man, those cages are really ruining the aerodynamics of the turret, with the current meta the early-war turret toss records will never be broken...

>>65214894
That was an IED you retard, the explosion came from underneath so of course it lifts up the turret.

>>65214801
>hard kill
>"Such as? Surely not just slapping more ERA"
Isn't hard kill systems usually active and not passively responsive?

If you're a western nation you go all in to automated anti drone turret upgrades for every machine gun that can point up in the air on all your vehicles. If you're some shithole like Russia you just suffer because you have no choice.

>>65215467
Didn't they capture a few T-90s during the Kharkiv Counteroffensive? Not sure they would've used them, and any that are still around are probably stuck in a hangar somewhere, but still.

File: tonight.jpg (63.0 KB)

>>65215501

File: whoa.gif (479.3 KB)

>>65215591

>>65215591
>TONIGHT
>I TRY OUT THE NEW WUNDERWAFFE
>RICHARD FLEES A DRONE ON HIS MOTORBIKE
>AND JAMES GETS A DRESSING-DOWN FROM HIS NEW COMMANDING OFFICER
>"Oh cock."

>>65214773
a lot of these videos are legit propaganda and fake/ai generated

>>65214773
Naval history has already shown the way. Battleships went extinct after it was shown it is impossible to fully protect the ship with armor against aircraft AND still be able to do its job AND be affordable. Tanks must follow the same path. Discard all armor, save for splash damage/light weapons and focus on the 3S: speed, sensors & stealth. The main tank weapon must be BVR missiles and or drones. Tanks must be the land equivalent of Arleigh Burkes.

>>65214829
>Whats the solution then? Manual loading again?

The problem is that modern tanks use combustible cartridges with a metal base for obturation. Old tank cartridges were all brass and small droplets of molten metal would not penetrate them. Russian tanks store the rounds in a carousel autoloader at the bottom of the turret, and this carousel is not sealed off, so a shaped charge penetrating into the turret and spraying tiny droplets of molten metal will ignite any charges stored. So you do not even need to hit the ammo magazine, you just need to penetrate into the turret, and you get a propellant cookoff.

Modern self propelled artillery is no different including modern NATO SPGs. They all use combustible subcharges that are, as far as I have seen, not protected in any kind of special container, the idea being "they arent supposed to get hit because far away". Maybe the pzh 2000 has some kind of blow out compartment setup because of german autism but f.ex M109 does not.


The only tank that has all its ammo stored in compartments with blow out panels is the M1. Leopard 2 has a hull storage compartment with no venting. The M1 setup does not give 100% protection against an propellant fire killing the crew because if it gets hit in the few seconds the ammo compartment door is open or the round the loader is holding is ignited, its a total crew loss.

Also, you have to differ between ammunition propellant fire and HE shell cookoffs. The latter are far more energetic and cause these 400 feet high turret tosses.

>>65214855
>You can't add enough armor to stop this, idiot.

Russian tanks have most of their armor weight budget invested in steel armor. Their composite armor schemes never advanced beyond the early 1960s tech and are very primitive. They did create some composite armor upgrades in the late 1980s that were far better with very good performance against shaped charges, but this technology was apparently lost. In 1991 there were these iraqi T-55s with upgraded turret armor that tanked hellfire missiles into the turret without getting penned before getting hit in the hull and abandoned. This was not noticed until some americans went to examine the wrecks to write a post battle analysis.

A modern tank designed for the modern battlefield would be very different from the cold war era tanks you see today. Remember that the M1 and Leopard 2 are early 1970s designs for a battlefield that was like world war 2. F.ex the high pressure smoothbore gun can be considered obsolescent today.

>>65214871
>Why isn't this on the new L2A8 though?

Because when you can bribe the government people who buys these tanks you dont need to innovate technologically to beat your competitiors. Your product just needs to look warlike. This isnt limited to just Europe, you can see similar deranged procurement choices in America.

>>65215581
>Didn't they capture a few T-90s during the Kharkiv Counteroffensive?

I think that was a T-80BVM with the fancy IR shielding cloak on. Either way, that one is probably sitting in a hangar somewhere in the US. In its fully disassembled state most likely.

File: 482207356_3509292699377809_1417314788908677705_n.jpg (59.0 KB)

>>65215581
>>65216495

Actually nevermind, they did capture a T-90 and that's what I was remembering.

>>65215348

That is a sympathetic detonation of the HE shells carried by that tank. Not a propellant conflagration. That doesnt mean that the propellant didnt ignite, just that it doesnt looke like this when only the propellant catches fire. No amount of venting will help with a HE shell detonation, so yeah, even NATO tanks can blow up like this. Its just less probable.

>>65215415
>Blowout pannels combined with highly insensitive munnition and propellent.

NATO uses basic TNT as HE filler, the US army insensitive muntions program was cancelled a couple of years ago after developing a new HE filler. AFAIK Russia uses hexogen, which is more powerful than TNT, but also less safe.

>>65216376
>F.ex the high pressure smoothbore gun can be considered obsolescent today.
why? whats the alternative

tanks are obsolete. it's not 1940 any more.

>>65216761
why? whats the alternative

>>65216771
>whats the alternative
arsenal birds

>>65215591
>>65215797
heheue

>>65214804
You need several meters of standoff to stop an RPG warhead from penetrating armour that is only rated to resist machine gun fire. Meme cope sheds are barely good enough for that purpose, and even then only from some angles. A little bit of wire spaced a foot away from the rear of the tank's turret is going to do absolutely fuck all.

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