>>25200971
Not a fiction writer but I'm working on an intellectual history of involuntary celibacy interspersed with theology and socio-political philosophy and I struggle to attract women indefinitely. Its a work in progress.

My Twisted World, Elliot Rodger

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Read Mitchell Heisman's Suicide Note

>https://legacy.gscdn.nl/archives/images/suicide_note.pdf

>>25200979
Infohazard

>>25200971
Incels can't produce anything of artistic value.

>>25200971
we read incel lit all day being on 4chan
and its shite.
good fucking luck

>>25201014
False. Most philosophers were defacto incels.

>>25200971
I'm planning on writing an anonymous work and distributing it as PDF on here as a systems description of how one gets disjointed from reality by access to the internet to such an extent that they become a miserable degenerate. It will focus on a systems theory / Cybernetics framing treating social scripts as programmable modes of interface overfit to a digital surrogate environment. I will likely call it enchuddification.

Chuds are forced to a digital environment through ostracism from the physical. Their physical worlds as children may not have been the kindest, so they encode their personalities in a digital milieu to keep themselves sane. Learned helplessness ensures they never try again.

Interface with the physical world requires responding and adapting to, or rejecting, challenges to one's identity, which is difficult. In the digital world, these challenges can be controlled, and therefore entirely eliminated creating maladaptive nothing people, the beautiful ones from rat hell. They don't need to adapt, so they don't grow up.

Don't know if I'll ever go through with it, but I'd like to. I've escaped the encapsulation within the digital simulacrum, for the most part, and would like to bring forth my residual of understanding for study. Frankly I'd like to see the entire digital space torn down and rebuilt as a healthier extension of the physical.

>>25201061
I will counter your assumption that most of this is probably not their fault. I have written about six works. We should compare.

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>>25200975
>intellectual history of involuntary celibacy
feminism starts here and with lifting women out of needing to be raped by non chad in order to get sex

>>25200971
because most incels are completely deranged and can't thread coherent sentences together without sperging out.

>>25201061
Oh, great Chuddah! How may we escape the simulacrum?

>>25201148
You must chudditate, my chuild. The chownwards chud spiral.

>>25200971
Wasn't Houellebecq an incel?

Otto weininger also.

>>25201140
Why is it always England. I hate my background. Any way to get DNA injected so I can change my ethnicity?

Anyways, what book?

>>25201144
You've never met one, clearly

>>25200971
My theory is that fiction involves some kind of adventure, a journey, and "incels", or whatever you want to call them, are very well know to halt life and endorse complete spiteful inaction. In other words, writing fiction, creating art, is "woke as fuck". What we call "incels" are most of the time bitter people which life owns mistakes they commited tend to be the reason why they are that way but never learned anything from it. Incels would have a hard time writing fiction because it obviously requires a good relationship with imagination and having personal aspirations to talk about, which is hard when you refuse to either face reality or create your own. They also lack perspective because their lives generally are all around making excuses to not accomplish anything at all or attempt to do so. However, i don't even know what "incel" means anymore, because it surely not the same as "virgin" exactly (Popular characters in entertaiment tend to be virgins and be endearing at the same time, it's something else at at this point); from this site i get that incel means bitter retarded loser, and from outside of this site means "men who doesn't worship women as their god" (Someone once called Henry Calvin an "incel" somewhere).

>>25201037
Yes, Philosophy, not fiction. This is something this archetype of person excel at, writing infinite amounts of [whatever]-pill manifestos that doesn't mean nothing at all for the well adjusted people or the ones who aspire to something more beyond this useless scaremongering.

>>25201329
What constitutes well adjusted to you? Can you even constitute it outside personal sentiment?

>>25201329
Also you seem to ignore that people don't live on an island metaphorically speaking and to even ascertain that someone must be "personally" responsible towards a community that fails at the basic task of caring its for its most vulnerable members is a comedy of errors as far as I'm concerned. There's nothing wrong with creating art, I played guitar for years. You seem to confuse the fact that art is somehow borne of well adjusted people when historically its been quite the opposite and there's only a shred of difference between penning a manifesto and writing a song. Both are legitimate forms of expressing one's self.

>>25201337
I don't think i can measure the values of an individual outside personal sentiment, honestly. Frankly, i think my post was entirely a personal opinion. My recent interactions with this site has made me realize that i no longer resonates with the majority of the userbase, i'm afraid. I never considered helpful the longwinded complains about life they posits, but again, it's me.
>>25201346
I was talking about non-fiction in the later reply. Of course there are outsider artists, and transgressive fiction, that's obvious. It's something else, that i'm struggle to explain at the moment because i just recently giving it some thought. What i mean is that the incel archetype (the one i have in my head, again, these internet lingos are really exchangeable and get rendered meaningless quickly) don't like creating nothing at all, they don't create art or are afraid of self expression, which is why they are the way they are. Get them off /r9k/ with their thoughts and a piece of paper, and there's the possibility that not even them believes the insane shit they think about really. They're childish, not juvenile, just unbearably hollow.

>>25201346
Also, fiction it's kind of an idealistic thing. Exploring your mind, the imaginative realm itself. It always have some intent or destination, artistic or otherwise, even if it's a hobbial endevour. When i think of an "incel", i think about those anons who spend most of their time complaining about every single thing under the sun, and when you ask them what do they like or believe in, who are them really, they come up empty, or maybe they forgot completely because they lost themselves in what they hate, that became strangers to love (Stranger to Love. That's a sick title, someone should use that).

Anyway, i don't know if you get what i mean. For me "incel" seems like another kind of pessmistic fatalist to me, a perspective of a dead end, until they decide to become something else, something more. It's so dumb to me to identify with something like this, nonsense.

>>25201387
> Exploring your mind, the imaginative realm itself
yeah? and so is philosophy to a certain extent
> Anyway, i don't know if you get what i mean
I do. but you're wrong. I've seen incels write books, play instruments, etc. the idea that somewhat nominative determinism controls people's lives it only does to a certain extent, within the bounds of legal and social categories. what incels do to create things, is only within reason. anything outside of that such as violating others is completely outside the bounds of it. sure, Elliot Roger killed people. but he also wrote a book. the killing was out of bounds but he was in every right to express his frustration in word as it was 'within the bounds of reason"
> For me "incel" seems like another kind of pessmistic fatalist to me
you have to remember that's a word to given to them by their enemies, not them. you ever heard of how "nigger" was appropriated by blacks, well that's what 'incels' did. when jews called gentiles "goy" it was also appropriated. Tale as old as time.

>>25200971
Most self-identified incels are shit writers. Even My Twisted World is only interesting because of how hilariously bad it is as a piece of writing.

I think it has something to do with the fact that many of them have no personality beyond being virgins, so all they can write is them complaining about being virgins.

>>25201446
how do you know unless you interact with them?

>>25201419
>you ever heard of how "nigger" was appropriated by blacks, well that's what 'incels' did. when jews called gentiles "goy" it was also appropriated

The politics of identifying as a marginalised group has always been an intellectual dead end. Seeing how the US civil rights movement eventually transformed into modern wokeness should teach you that.

>>25201419
>I do. but you're wrong. I've seen incels write books, play instruments, etc.
I'm not saying they "can't" write as such, but that what they write seems boring to me. Like these...
>>25201446
>>25201449
... couple of posts says. They identify with the lack in their world, and as a result, have a very hollow view of things, devoid of personality and ambition. But again, it's my opinion on the matter, "whinny" fiction was never my kind of thing (Catcher in the Rye, The Stranger, The Tunnel, etc).

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>>25200971
I literally published a 420 page book about me, an incel, going to war in order to be less of an incel, yet I still see these fucking threads all over the board. And no, it's still not available in english.

Hell, even a local major news magazine reviewed it in positive light and called me an incel though I never used that word in the text as far as I remember.

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>>25200971
Art is ultimately a mating ritual.

>>25201478
no way you didnt make that up dude

>>25201499
Pyhä luvattu sota (2025)

>>25201527
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eijacD1E4BQ
Is this related? Seems fun

>>25201449
>intellectual dead end
I don't get why we need to be intellectual at all. talk is cheap.
>>25201476
then you have a very parochial definition of them. either that or you just believe what you read on the internet about them instead of actually interacting with them. sure, I agree a lot of them are brown. But I think by ignoring their problems, you think you can make it go away. it won't.

>>25201527
respect, dude. living the dream.

>>25201535
We are going into massive fag territory but yes, those are the events and dialogue of the book. There's also the version with english subs. One of the major charecters in the book is a /lit/ tard chud and I'm very proud of writing about that time when we discussed which girl from evangelion is the best while stoned in the trenches.

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>>25201544
Went straight back to being a neet so I don't know about that. Cant even own a gun anymore which is lame, but after release I have made a bunch of friends after they read/listened to the audiobook and shot me a message afterwords. That's a massive net positive considering i was literally nothing and nofriends before pulling that stunt off.

>>25201576
>young Mr. CIA Glow Nigger
i dont have high hopes for the publishing of this work of art

>>25201588
My editor was involved with a major national security scandal, but despite that background she thought that section was just as good as the rest of the book and sent it straight to the press. That *was* from the published book.

>>25201576
I like it

>>25200971
if you’re competent enough to get a book published you’re competent enough to get sex

Incelism it's so lame, gay and boooooring

male failure in romance is mocked and not taken seriously

>>25200971
Have you visited Royal Road?

>>25201478
Storm of Steel?

>>25202086
yes but sadly not the other way around

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>>25201527
>>25201535
>actual author browsing 2020s /lit/
Maybe this place still has the tiniest bit of hope

>>25203214
Oh theres plenty of them, but most are smart enough not to mention being somebody so that they don't risk pulling unnecessary negative attention towards their image. I would know, I'm a massive pussy, but also wrote the book with anons in mind as the target audience so every once and now I must fag out and >buy an add

>>25201037
Celibacy isn't inceldom. Many highly intelligent men eschew sex because they have no need for it. The man of genius is autarkic. Weinginger speaks of this.

>>25202621
Tell me more

>>25200971
None of that shit would ever get published in current industry.

>>25203763
You know what I mean, asshole. Quit twisting words around.

>>25200971
I am south east asian and I desire french girls/femboys pls gib.

>>25200971
Lovecraft

Incels didn't exist before the 21st century
In the past the dregs of society unable to get married or enter romantic relationships would just visit prostitutes (which a lot of married men would do too)
Prostitutes were also cheap back then, about the equivalent of 20-50 usd today so everyone could afford them

The closest thing to incels you'd find are autists who avoid prostitution for twisted philosophical reasons (think catcher in the rye, notes from the underground), but the social consensus that visiting prostitutes as a man is morally bad (beyond the Christian viewpoint that all sex outside of marriage is bad) and that only losers do it is an entirely modern phenomenon

>>25200971
You need Eros if you want to create something that's worth reading.

I'm an "incel" and I understand that in order for the hero to progress he must cut the balls of his father so he parts with the mother.

>>25200976
it's true, shooter manifestos are often super interesting. I just read the Kyle Odom one recently and it was pretty crazy, seemed like a smart dude that just started going off the rails about lizard people or whatever.

>>25200971
Incels want things to magically happen for them while not putting more than a minimum of effort before giving up like the welfare slaves they are
Wait a few years for LLMiterature to become acceptable, then you'll see more of it

there doesn't need to be. People need to get over this idea that a cultural movement has only "arrived" once someone has sat down and written a 500 page novel.
People communicate in bite size messages now.

You've been reading the "great incel novel" for years. It's called 4chan.

>>25205472
>want things to magically happen for them while not putting more than a minimum of effort
chads do the same. the only difference is that those things DO magically happen for them

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>>25205114
>Incels didn't exist before the 21st century
>In the past the dregs of society unable to get married or enter romantic relationships would just visit prostitutes
right. and if they even slightly wanted a wife and had stable housing and showed up at church semi regularly, some auntie would introduce them to a non virgin fat slow girl, who would have 0% of her skin covered with tattoos instead of 70%
>The closest thing to incels you'd find are autists who avoid prostitution for twisted philosophical reasons
yeah no prostitutes are gross and i hate having to sift through prostitutes looking for mall sprees in trying to find a woman to bring to church. get a girl who says yes i am a Christian and she still just wants mall shopping sprees and doesnt like church. find a girl who doesnt want sex before marriage and still just wants to go to the mall and talk about buying stuff. the women who dont tell you theyre Christians and you tell them what Christianity means, most of the time theyre not interested, sometimes you can convince a girl to be your Christian wife, and thats probably better than debating with her personal pastiche of feminism with a cross necklace
>but the social consensus that visiting prostitutes as a man is morally bad (beyond the Christian viewpoint that all sex outside of marriage is bad) and that only losers do it is an entirely modern phenomenon
that comes from the way prostitution works now, if you pay the prostitute directly instead of buying her dinner or victorias secret, thats a low quality prostitute

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>>25205472
>Wait a few years for LLMiterature
already happened. no one reads novels anymore, they ask google what the novel said
>>25205482
>You've been reading the "great incel novel" for years. It's called 4chan.
everyone is too afraid of divorce judges and also too accepting of the system and interested in using it against their neighbors to make a videogame about assassinating divorce judges or sell a novel or a movie about a guy who gets divorced, slaughters the judges entire family, and flees to mexico with his kids while wasting cops responding the the amber alert the whole way

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>>25205482
>You've been reading the "great incel novel" for years. It's called 4chan.
years ago i considered the subject and how it would ever be possible to spread contempt for kidnapping. there was plenty of expressed contempt for fornication, or infanticide, or meaningless bullshit like pornography and masturbation. people even express contempt for adultery under many circumstances, though it is always justified if the woman claims to have been abused somehow. but the problem with contempt for kidnapping is that when the man doesnt have custody of his baby, he is obviously a loser and will never be listened to until he personally executes the entire population of the state his baby was kidnapped in, while a woman who has custody of a baby, she says she was abused, shes a poor little single mom, and the most anyone will say is yeah im not going to step up and be that childs father. the young men are all like, ok, i know life is dangerous, ill take my chances. the middle aged men are all like, ok, i just have to make it through until my kids are 18 and then i wont have to listen to this woman yelling all day long any more. the older men are all boomers. contempt for kidnapping can only be felt, much less expressed, anonymously, whence the girlfriends of politics of respectability holocaust truther podcast trs have them say that anything that has to be expressed anonymously is false
feminism begins with the 1839 legalization in england of kidnapping of children from men whose wives separate from them. once men were threatened with having their children taken away, they could be terrorized into tolerating anything

>>25201527

Hey man if I ever land a job in publishing I'll try to bring your book here in Italy, shit seems really cool

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>>25200971
Doestovsky stems incel energy fuck u mean.
Basically wrote about a guy being cucked in the Gambler

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Incels aren't real and are just closeted sodomites who actively refuse to go out with women.

>>25200979
>1800 page suicide note
Pure vanity, will not read

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>>25206613
If I was writing a suicide note I'd just say I planted non existent bombs in a shitload of places just to fuck with the police. I'd probably put in shitposts too like that one guy who said that gumball drove him to suicide to give some anons a laugh.

>>25206620
The best suicide note was that Norwegian metal musician who wrote "sorry for the mess" or something like that. There's a guy who really wanted to die. Anything more grandiose than that and you're just putting on a show

>>25200971
Maybe I should write that book.
The problem is, how would I make it about something other than bitching about not getting laid?
I mean, it would be nice to have sex, but seperate from inceldom, I'm just a regular dude with a 9-5.
I wake up, prepare for work, work, go home or buy basic necessities, then relax until I have to sleep and prepare for the next day.

>>25206506
Hit me up on X and Ill put you on a list for sending the english Beta to.

>>25200979
This is really low IQ stuff. Just someone inventing pseudointellectual grandiose excuses to justify his own misery.

Literally writing one right now. 32k words in.

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>>25207286
no one gives one single shit about getting laid. getting laid is easy as fuck because women are all beyond disgusting whores. incel means celibate as in unmarried. heres your plot line: man find out he wasnt actually married, tries to find a Christian woman to marry, discovers there are 0 Christian women in america because after all there are 0 Christian pastors and how could they know if they were never told.
the book will have an audience of 0 pretend Christians and 0 non Christians who just care about getting laid or whatever. women will leave if they find out you read it and the government will arrest you under terrorism laws for promoting rape

>>25207863
what is it, the action novel about a man who picks up his daughter in like assachusetts the home of fag marriage because calipornia is too close to the mexican border, drives to pennsylvania before the amber alerts start, steals a car from some pastor he kills to dodge the amber alerts, gets to alabama before the cops realize whats happening, shoots his way down the river to new orleans in the middle of a hurricane, and steals a boat to escape to cuba

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>>25208157
could call it "better red than pink" or "pilgrims progress to a new life" or "the great american novel"

>>25200971
kek literally all literature is incel literature

>>25208157
or maybe "refugee families: a boogaloo story"

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>>25207286
You can't.
I don't think you understand what "incel" actually means in current public context. It no longer means what that college girl or those internet forum guys defined it is. "Incel" is currently just a synonym for "virgin", which also does not mean what you think it is; both are used in identical context. When someone called you a virgin in 2008 it meant you were bitter, pathetic, incompetent and a loser who should be disregarded. It is shorthand for tearing down a male member of society who committed the crime of not breaking his back supporting it. Any protest he may have against anything, be it society or women, as immediately disregarded because he is "incel." The Fox and the Grapes for people too unintelligent to actually consider the meaning of an aesop.
Consider if some elderly man tried to reclaim the dismissive shorthand "boomer" by pouring hours of his life into some book. Would you respect him or reconsider the word? Obviously not. The same is true of "incel." Associating with it whatsoever is poison because the word itself is poison for discourse.

>>25201358
>My recent interactions with this site has made me realize that i no longer resonates with the majority of the userbase, i'm afraid

Well I'm sorry you feel that way, but times change. I'm sure old 4chan would have derided me for being reactionary but its time to make way for a new breed I guess.

>What i mean is that the incel archetype (the one i have in my head, again, these internet lingos are really exchangeable and get rendered meaningless quickly) don't like creating nothing at all, they don't create art or are afraid of self expression, which is why they are the way they are. Get them off /r9k/ with their thoughts and a piece of paper, and there's the possibility that not even them believes the insane shit they think about really. They're childish, not juvenile, just unbearably hollow.

That's not what an incel is though, I wish society would stop trying to redefine words beyond objective meaning but its itself is a philosophical objection where semantic drift is inevitability, as humans exist in motion and are not apt to intellectual stasis. That being said an incel is "involuntary (in) celibate (cel)" which has nothing at all to do with the creative impulse unless you think sexual activity and the ability to make art are somehow correlated. Muses exist, and so does the kama sutra but only one has any tangible connection to literature.

>>25208129
>getting laid is easy as fuck because women are all beyond disgusting whores.
Is it though? You can't claim to speak for everyone because you aren't "everyone" so to speak.

>>25200971
Newton was Incel. Science is incel literature.

>>25201329
I dont believe in blaming people for their circumstances.
There is a wealth of evidence showing that people treat others horribly.
Assuming that you are in control of your life doesnt align with observations.

>>25205188
Nigga he went off no rails.
Days der real world

>>25200971
Go read the Book of Disquiet right now you fuckin poser.

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>>25208205
>"Incel" is currently just a synonym for "virgin", which also does not mean what you think it is; both are used in identical context. When someone called you a virgin in 2008 it meant you were bitter, pathetic, incompetent and a loser who should be disregarded.
20 years ago was the transition between before marriage was made illegal and the culture today where marriage isnt just not done but no one knows what it would be like if it was legal. incel means a man who isnt married but wants to be. the easiest way to tell he wants to be married but isnt is if he is in a modern marriage

>>25208205
Obviously trying to reclaim "incel" is silly. It's their word, and I don't want it.
Speaking for disenfranchised and wrongly vilified men though, I think is very valid. And I think I've been doing it.
And it doesn't need to be a book. Books are vanity projects for writers. I'm interested in actually changing the world, which is why I spend time crafting memes, honing my arguments, and trying to influence minds. Real people's minds. Not the minds of the minority of people who read books.

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>>25208415
>Speaking for disenfranchised and wrongly vilified men though, I think is very valid.
Then you're an incel.
It doesn't matter if you don't "claim" or "reclaim" it. That is not what a label is.
To undo the damage the word "incel" did to white men who don't mindlessly conform, you'd need a cultural upheaval so enormous and calculated it would have to be reinforced by every corner of western society. No one is going to go to bat for you - and I mean ever - to that degree.
Maybe when you've been extinct for 100 years amid the ensuing tire fire that will be post-western European civilization. That's a best case scenario.
The fact of the matter is they found the perfect word. It has verifiable roots in the internet, the people it describes played a role inventing it. It is reinforced by an unshakeable part of all societal foundation (women.) It is extremely easy to tack onto anyone.
Why aren't you participating in the rigged labor economy, incel? Why aren't you on the virtual meat market, incel? Why aren't you voting for the appropriate political candidate supported by big business and pop culture, incel?
"Incel" is the silver bullet against anyone who does not fit in. It's an elephant round whereas "virgin" was a mere snake gun. You're not reasoning your way out of this one the same way you could not reason with all the people who infiltrated, subverted and eroded the society, culture, laws and economy (social or otherwise) that your ancestors created.
And even if you did gain some sense and never utilized or identified with the term? You will be labeled "incel" anyway if you kick back too hard against the prevailing boot crushing your windpipe. Incel really is just "nigger" for white men. The function is identical.

>>25201527
>Suomi NEETs get their own dedicated propaganda to make them pick a side in a retarded kievan-muscovite civil war
I'm a bit jelly. All we get is a boring emotional blackmail aimed at old fucks who are still salty about the eastern bloc.

>>25208438
I'll take it if they're referring to me (which they are), but it's not like I have ever actively been in an "incel community". That's not an actual thing, as far as I'm concerned.

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>>25208438
>undo the damage the word "incel" did to white men who don't mindlessly conform
no, you need to undo the damage the illegality of marriage and fatherhood did to men who dont mindlessly conform

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>>25208490
>it's not like I have ever actively been in an "incel community"
any group of white men is an incel community. there are two kinds of white men, those who fear divorce (d) and those who dont let the fear control their lives (r)

>>25208496
yes, but those are their words.
If someone asked me "are you an incel", I'd say "I guess by your standards", and if they asked "are you in the incel community", I'd say "no, that doesn't exist".
I am a man who exists, and talks to other men.

>>25201065
I wouldn't call it an assumption, it's emergent from the axiom dynamic of environmental determinism and my own model of learned modes of urge satisfaction, a genesis of the two concepts as the consequences of their coexistence contrive a harrowing dynamic taken to logical extreme by programmable environments such as social media. A free will argument is overly moralistic in my opinion, and I would say it doesn't insist upon a corrective intervention where a systems analysis does. A symptom can be traced to a root, which can be cured.

>>25200971
The incel phenomenon as such is too recent. Prior to the advent of internet porn, weird effeminate loners were womanizers who had meaningless sex on a regular basis.

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>>25211246
>Prior to the advent of [affirmative action girlboss careers and hyperhoeflation due to 50 year old women being unmarried and 50 year old men looking for young pussy], weird effeminate loners were [johns] who had meaningless sex on a regular basis.
any any of them who wanted to be married instead, could be

>>25200979
I remember reading something from a friend/acquaintance of Heisman's that said that he dated. I don't remember where from though

>>25211401
dating is just prostitution with extra steps. if you want a family you talk to her father and brother and court her properly. if you just want her to live at your house for a few months while she spends all your money and yells at you until you throw her out, you date

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>>25211313
>percentage of American women with a mental health diagnosis
>not 100%

I am involuntarily celibate because of my borderline micro and am currently writing a Houllebecqian novel that will kill the final modicum of respect that the world still has for auslit.

>>25200971
The Handmaid's Tale is basically an instruction manual for inceldom

>>25211474
lol

>>25205188
>shoots the guy 6 times in the back and again in the head with a .45
>dude survives
Maybe he is an alien.