I'm busy reading other stuf

Buddhism is for losers who can't handle real life.

>>25204393
Buddhism is just one particular expression of the ultimate primordial metaphysical truth among several others.

The Pali Canon is pretty dry material and not especially interesting compared to later Buddhist writings.

>>25204421
tsmt it's eastern stoicism

>>25204393
Raped into irrelevance by Freud. Dont fall for the jeetslop.

>>25204450
Stoicism infused with nonsensical bullshit. Just be an Epicurean.

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I have, plus the Visuddhimagga and most Mahayana texts. But ch'an is right, you'll never find the truth in any of the canon, it's all just words, Ordinary mind is the way.
Enlightenment comes down to us, we can't reach up to enlightenment. We cant become enlightened through works. We can't hold enlightenment in our limited selves that we never were and try to make it our own. It pools, it stagnates. It forms ideas and thoughts and religions and the paths that men follow, before bursting through the seems of limited mind and rhizomatically flowing outwards to new pastures. We can dim and brighten our true nature through our negative/positive actions, words and thoughts. But just doing this isn't enough to become enlightened. A tatahgata doesn't judge or tell people what to do, he simply points in the direction that leads away from suffering and suggests people that they find their reasons to leave that suffering behind.
All of it is completed, the work is done. When shakyamuni attained enlightenment we all attained enlightenment at the same instant alongside him. And shakyamuni was always enlightened.
Sing, dance, laugh till you die. Hold it dear in your hearts. Flow alongside it in eternal ecstacy. Hold it in place, make God of it and worship it with love. Release it into nothingness and see what new forms spring from the seeds.
But most of all love dearly and unendingly every one of those you find in the marketplace.
Idk up to you man.

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>>25204393
I prefer Paoluccian Vedicism

Which school?
Whose tradition?

>>25204479
Let's go with Evola's Doctrine of Awakening for funsies.

>>25204393
Flawed assumption, there is nothing to be solved.

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>>25204393
I have discovered Daisaku Ikeda and I'm ordering some of his books to my local library, I'm going to start with Human Revolution, but I've also really enjoyed his essays on peace. I also read Thich Nhat Hanh recently. I have hope that we can truly have a peaceful world understood through compassion and through the work of compassion and understanding we can create the transformation necessary for peace.

>>25204393
>why haven’t you read the Pali canon and become Buddhist yet?
Reading the suttas is not how you become Buddhist: you become Buddhist through Jhana. Like all exercise, it’s a hard habit to begin, a hard habit to maintain and a hard habit to master.

Have you read this shit? Reads like a Dragon Ball episode.

>>25204454
The only thing Freud raped were his clients' minds.

>>25204393
The consequences of its thought are just basic Monism Ala Parmenides or the Adaita Vedanta but with tons of rituals, chants and allegorical teachings about spirits which are useless. You don’t need to memorize the fifty Dashikis of death from the Book of the Dead to achieve gnosis. Also Buddhism equates eating meat with being a murderer which I disagree with.

>>25204908
elaborate

>>25204984
what do you believe in then?

>>25204393
It's incomplete, but an important precursor of Hyperchristianity to come. Christ is the Light that illuminates the emptiness of all things.

>>25204393
The Daodejing is buddhist. Buddha is a Saint.

>>25204984
It's actually fascinating how, if the endpoint is not causally or teleologically or related in anyway with whatever exists—all modes of anything, all heavens, all spirits—none of these things have a reason to be as they are nor do we have any reason to know about them. They're not real.
Never made any sense why Buddhisms have these elaborate systems about things.

>>25205454
And it seems impossible to find answer, as if it never crossed the minds of these ingenious sages, why there are six realms and not 7? Why would they even exist? Why did the come to be? It's just a metaphysics of arbitrariness. "It just is this way, I dunno."
There just happens to be a harmony in the universe that there's this exact order and number of heavens. Sheer luck that they don't randomly halve in number every 800 years and 45 seconds. Or just randomly fluctuate.
Almost as if there's some absolute universal principle maintaining the logic of reality..

>>25205454
one of the main issues with buddhism is trying to hyperrational yet confined to a prexisting irrational dharmic system which creates this elaborate bullshit that doesnt properly explain anything

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>>25204393
I read the Kangyur.

>>25204393
I don't want to solve anything, let alone everything

>>25205373
Monism but just without all the chanting and rituals or whatever.

>>25204984
>>25205454
>>25205470
You have no idea what you're talking about and should have just remained silent instead of confusing others with your thoughtless bad-faith drivel.
None of your embarrassing fart sniffing has anything to do with the Pali canon and even a cursory read of Wikipedia would answer your silly ignorant questions, let alone actual scholarship on the topics.
What is the point of pretending to engage with Buddhist thought when you don't actually care to understand it?
Why go through the trouble of making such pointless posts?
Why is this board so anti-intellectual?

>>25205574
I am only the first guy in those replies. The actual metaphysics of Buddhism like Monism as a concept as well as Nirvana (so sort of Monist-atheism), that is good enough. The utilitarian ethics (literally a parable of good vs bad deeds being weighed like pebbles on a scale), veganism, the reincarnated into hells and animals and demons as well as all the prayers and chants is what loses me. So basically just the core concept of Monism I like.

>>25205574
Buddha and Karma Lingpa are metaphysically truth speakers though allegorically false. The hells and chats and demons are as literal as any parable from Christ. It is another religion lost with that stuff.

>>25205574
>once again the Buddhist doesn't show how there is logic to the universe, instead reverts to ad hominems
If I was wrong it'd be easy to show in a paragraph where the order of the heavens derives? Why or how does it seem like anything follow this Ma'at when there's no such first principle?
Happenstantial cosmic harmony negates all defense of any system. If it's ad hoc then no one has to justify any system. And everyone's fever dream is as legitimate as anyone else's

>>25204984
>Also Buddhism equates eating meat with being a murderer which I disagree with.
Why? Humans don't need meat and are therefore murdering for their pleasure or cinvenience when eating meat

>>25205761
Plants are just as living as any animal or human are but they aren’t sentient. Hell, some Greeks like Pythagoreans even believed magnets were living because they cause movement. If you are real monist you’d see everything as intertwined in everything else.

>>25205682
>actual metaphysics of Buddhism
No such thing. If you'd read anything about Buddhism you'd know that.
>>25205684
You're equivocating syncretic Tibetan folk tales with the Pali canon which preceded it by millennia.
>>25205736
You're just revealing your ignorance more by digging your heels in. Buddha was famously silent on those matters when asked by his students. Those questions either cannot be expressed satisfactorily with conventional language (logic, science, etc) at best, and at worst are a strong impediment to reaching nirvana. This is basic Buddhism 101 that it explained in detail in places as mundane as Wikipedia, let alone the extremely rich and free online resources about Buddhist history and thought.
You're also apparently too stupid to know what ad hominem means. You're acting like an imbecile so I called you one. It was an insult, not an argument.

I won't be replying again.

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>>25205804
>Buddha was famously silent on those matters when asked by his students.
And yet all schools foolishly presumed his silence was an admission of absence.

>>25205804
Okay, so imagine I violently murder five people and then become all good and nice like Milarepa and I build six houses for six families to keep them from starving and dying on the street. The Buddhists would say that is worthy of moving up on the reincarnation wheel. So basically a problem with utilitarianism is that it allows a degree of sin so long as you try to do other things to make up for that amount.

The Masked drama of rebirth has the allegory of pebbles. The soul’s good and bad deeds are weighed with literal pebbles.

>>25205574
No reads anymore.
Its so over.

where do you start with buddhist /lit/erature?

there's no bible or tao te ching equivalent for buddhism so idk where i'd begin

>>25205869
Ken Wheeler (pbuh)

>>25204984
Dharanis absolutely clear the mind and remove blockages.
Vajrasattva purificaiton doesn't let you percieve anything, but it does allow the mind to be lost in 90% less bullshit that covers up seeing things as they are.

>>25205375
Wait till the Catholics revive mystical contemplation (their form of theosis) and promote it in monasteries and nunneries, while also marketing it to the lay public as "western meditation". Catholicism will explode globally and get the majority of the "spiritual but not religious" crowd.

>>25205862
Yes, and you will move up on the wheel of samsara...after paying for your bad karma by suffering in Hell for 5 million years, a million years of horrible torture for each life you took.

Unless you had a Buddha on hand, but in that case he will judge your mind and will only declare that you are free of karmic suffering after seeing that there's no bad karma in you.

>>25205862
This is such a bizarre and incorrect thing to say. There is no 'reincarnation wheel' in Buddhism. Actions produces karmaic seeds which will inevitably ripen unless pulled out at the roots. Good actions produce enjoyment while bad actions produce suffering. If you kill 5 people that action will produce a hellish state unless the seeds themselves are wiped out. You can't just do a good deed and have them be gone, all you're doing is adding positive karma to the mass of karma you already have, not removing negative karma. This is why wisdom is the only true means of purification. If one can transcend the anger, through the realization of emptiness and inter-connectivity, that caused those seeds to be able to rise in the first place, the seeds will simply never grow.
Milarepa never just fed some poor peopel are came stopped his karma through that, he transcended the violence inherent in him through wisdom, have you even read the story?
You are preaching some weird vedic/new age idea of reincarnation, not buddhism.

>>25206023
Have fun with Catholicism turning into western buddhism with christ stapled on i guess.

>>25206029
>>25206037
https://bardothodol.nextohm.com/BardoThodol15/

>>25206055
I'm not reading this but you realize the bardo is a play meant to represent allegorical truth in the dying state. It's well accepted that not everything seen in the bardo state represents absolute truth. go watch some nde experiences on youtube for more examples of this Nothing said here has any bearing on the yogacara philosophy tibettan buddhism is based on.

>>25206064
I know that the play isn’t a literal recreation of what they think is the afterlife state but the ethics it propounds which I am sure you would agree is the main idea of the text, are definitely utilitarian. It is literally saying that a poacher of wild animals will suffer more in afterlife than someone who killed people.

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>>25205869

>>25206082
Definitely killing people is a worse crime than killing animals in all forms of buddhism, this is pretty clear. I'm not sure why this play would say that, perhaps it's using it as a skillful means, i.e. we fell shame when killing a person but not when killing an animal. Remember that Buddha never banned meat eating for his monks, but he did not allow them to kill animals themselves. Vegetarianism is heavily associated with the boddhisattva path.
A butcher/poacher is also often also used as a symbolic thing in mahayana texts, describing someone who feels no repentance for his negative actions.
Hell plays like this are a common thing in buddhist history, they're designed more to scare the general populaiton with fire and brimstone than act as theological statements.

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>>25206093
good for igniting the hecklin aryan spirit in you, not very good for learning actual buddhism.
This collection of essays is very good for getting you in the correct headspace to understand budda dharma.

>>25206127
Back when i was a bad tibetan buddhist practitioner, I got a drink with a tibetan guy I met at a temple who was just some businessman dragged there by his wife. He suddenly broke down and started saying how all these westeners think it's so cool and exotic to come to his religion, but this is his trauma we're larping with. He had to sit through seminars being told he's going to hell or be reincarnated as a cockroach all during childhood, had to sit through long pujas to the boddhisattvas in itchy outfits with his grandma, how all he wanted when he came to the west was to escape religion but people here think that it's so cool.
I've heard this same exact storied repeated to me by recent orthodox converts talking to cradles.
/lit/ Orientalism is such a riot, though I fell hard for it for much of my life.

>>25204455
>Just be an Epicurean.
Holy fucking r*ddit. Buddha spoke up against retarded annihilationists like you.

>>25204454
Freud was a spooked kike who didn't meditate for one second in his entire life.

>>25206140
You actually do see this in reverse with Korean and Japanese Christian converts sort of. They end up the most zealous and devout while native born ones are less enthusiastic sometimes because we are used to the shopping mall church culture

>>25206140
Amazing post JIDF, truly spectacular.

>>25205486
we have a new buddhism now that drops all of that crap. the buddha did not believe it either.

>>25206108
there are pasasges where he says that vegans ("people who don't eat fish or meat") go to hell.

>>25205486
>>25206422
I love when people pretend that rebirth isn't foundational to the philosophy of Buddhism so they can inorganically morph the Buddha's words into atheistic materialist memephysics

"Noble Resignation" doesn't solve anything, per se. Though it may help prevent you from making things worse, you'll likely never make anything better.

>>25204393
What is there to solve?

>>25205682
>So basically just the core concept of Monism I like.
What's it like being a soulless scum-sucking NPC?

>>25206330
Wait, what? Explain?

>>25205869
Dhammapada

>>25206316
Buddha is the annihilationist here, not Epicurus lol

>>25206778
>Epicurus isn't an annihilationist
Illiterate retard moment.

>>25204446
>perennialist garbage
Cringe

>>25204393
the idea that I might've been a jeet in a former life or I might reincarnate into one makes me wanna kill myself
oh and I don't believe in reincarnation. without reincarnation as a buddhist you just wanna kill yourself

>>25206425
Tibetan buddhists pretty much all eat meat, it's actually required by their climate.
I'm sorry you read one guys from long agos hardcore take, but that isn't the dharma.
I mean Devadattas argument with the buddha literally came down to making vegetarianism required or not. East Asian Buddhists would eat meat too if it wasn't for the fact that they don't live on alms like tharavada does.

>>25207044
okay, pussy

>>25206910
切の現象は大日如来の説法にほかならない

>>25207044
>without reincarnation as a buddhist you just wanna kill yourself
you would be missing the point. buddha did not kill himself and his goal was not a better rebirth.

>>25207176
the devadatta episode was bigger than just vegetarianism

>>25205454
>They're not real.
Cope.

>>25204984
You are talking about Tibetan Buddhism or Mayahana Buddhism, which are both false belief systems. Theravada is the only thing the Buddha taught. The rest is a kind of fan fiction that can be safely ignored.

>>25207475
Hello mentally ill Theravada fag who clings to Buddha.

>>25207477
i don't cling to buddha and neither should you

>>25204393
I was born into a Buddhist family, but became agnostic as I grew up.
>>25207475
>which are both false belief system
Not really. There are certain beliefs in those sects that contradict Theravada teachings, but most of the core message is still similar. This doesn't really matter unless you're a monk or a layperson who's completely focused on attaining nirvana.
>>25204984
>eating meat with being a murderer
It doesn't. There's some amount of sin because the animals are killed because you create the demand, but laypeople are not expected to be vegetarians.
Theravada monks are allowed to eat meat provided they didn't see, hear, or suspect that it was prepared specifically for them (but most don't). Monks used to regularly do something called pindapatha, where they would walk outside with an alms bowl, and people would give them a small portion of their food as they walked past their house. I think it was permitted to take meat to sustain themselves as it was not prepared specifically for them.
>>25205869
I hear "What the buddha taught" is a good introductory text. The monk who wrote that was one of the preeminent Buddhist scholars in Sri Lanka.

>>25204393
I'm already taoist.

>>25207985
>I hear "What the buddha taught" is a good introductory text.
It does the job of the basics but leans into scientism and openly promotes an annihilationist interpretation of Pariniravana.

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>>25207999
Thanks for letting me know, anon.
>openly promotes an annihilationist
Do you remember what gave you this impression? I skimmed through Chapter 6, on anatta, and he seems to be making the case for cessation rather than annihilation. Because there's no permanent, unchanging soul, there's nothing to be annihilated after parinirvana.

What English introductory book do you think does a fair job of getting the core message across?

>>25205454
You're confusing Advaita illusionism with Buddhism. Buddhism definitely says they are real. That they have causal efficacy. Its the advaita that says its all fake and just part of greater Brahman. The dependence origination is the causal efficacy of our existence.

>>25208131
> Do you remember what gave you this impression?
When he openly states that absolutely nothing remains about oneself or the individual remains existent in Pariniravana, and he also says nor is there any sort of positive plenitude there that one can be identified with even in a qualified sense. This contradicts Buddha’s stated stance in the Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta where he refuses to endorse any of the 4 alternatives viz. post-death liberation.

The idea that “anatta means there is no real annihilation as such even though there is nothing present in Parinirvana and its just the ending of aggregates and nothing more” is an interpretation Buddha himself never actually endorses and some people view it as veering too close to annihilationism.

Most of Vajrayana and some Mahayana would view the above take as deeply mistaken and they would say that even though Dharmakaya is not a discrete entity that it is still nonetheless essentially what you are right now and how you abide in or as its luminous presence in Parinirvana.

>>25208147
> You're confusing Advaita illusionism with Buddhism.
The first part of his description is correct that Buddhism does not generally posit any inherent teleological or casual relation between all that exists and the Buddhist endpoint of (Pari)Nirvana, although there are certain schools which are exceptions to this like Shingon where all of reality is just part of the ongoing teaching of the cosmic Buddha.

To equate a lack of teleological orientation with non-existence as he does in the second half is philosophically sloppy and indefensible though.

>>25205869
>there's no bible or tao te ching equivalent for buddhism
Yes, there is
OP literally gave it to you
It is the pali canon

>>25208551
if you wanted to read the entire pali canon, you would be looking at a 55-volume set of books

>>25205869
>>25206093

Evola is the go-to recommendation around here for a good reason.

>>25208796
That's why you read the Dhammapada instead.

>>25204446
>bro it's all like, all one truth being expressed different ways, bro, don't be so picky about one or the other bro

>>25204503
Evola was a fraud, from his demented notions of expertise to his fradulent obsession with his non-existent noble heritage.

>>25206093
>>25208803
Because /lit/ is infected with /pol/tards. Evola is utterly useless to knowing about actual Buddhism.

>>25209598
Really? So far myth stuff checks out and he hasn't brought up anything in the books I've read. Certainly buddhism isn't a degenerated warrior religion and I doubt we'll open the next kalpq in hyperborea. What aside has he been wrong about?

>>25209629
Start with Adi Shankara - Upadesasahasri.

>>25204984
>are just basic Monism
Buddhism Is in any way shape or form, monist, some schools aré atomist, other non-dualist, most have a relational ontology, none establish a monist metaphysical system
Also most buddhist schools see nothing wrong with eating meat, you have your information all mixed up, i think you're confusing buddhadharma with some form of vedanta

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>>25204393
i saved quite a lot of buddhist websites and literature including pali canon for offline reading
right now im reading other stuff like pic related

The meaning of life is avoiding death.

>>25204393
Buddhism creates sympathy for jeets. We can't begin to love all living things until jeets are no longer living things.

>>25206140
>>25206127
I had a similar experience. I met a thangka artist from Nepal and everyone of us westerns were amazed by his technique. Very precise and sophisticated, there is a canon the artist must master, a correct way to hold the brush, a correct placement of objects, each carrying a deeper meaning, a step by step on the anatomy of the characters and so on. The same techniqued honed through the centuries. We felt that was an elevated artform compared to whatever we would ever create in our lifetimes.

But then, when we were more relaxed he started talking on how it was amazing that western artists could do whatever they want, pointing to grafitti on the streets, comics, high brow contemporary art, realism, digital... Anything we showed him would blow his mind for the freedom alone. He had a hard time drawing anything other than the canon he was taught.

>>25210764
The Dalia Lama has said many times “you are me and I am you. When I do good to you I do good to myself.” That is Monism. Buddhism is Monism within an overall atomist system.

I can accept that reality could be an illusion because everything we see is filtered through our senses which aren't perfect and lie to us. But the idea that there's some higher reality to ascend to seems absurd and that reality could also probably be an illusion.

>>25208147
>>25208300
Just because no Buddhist ever realized it doesn't make it false. The self evident conclusion of saying that Nirvana is what's true reality/the only real end, that everything else is unreal/worthless/without purpose/evil.
If Nirvana did not bring 'this' into being then it does not truly exist.

>>25212095
>Monism within an overall atomist system
You can't have an atomist system in a monist cosmos, atomism Is by deffinition the opposite of monism, Is absolute pluralism, the clósest thing to atomistinism Is Leibniz monads, but that's the opposite of what the dalai lama Is saying, the dalai lama Is talking about non-dual interdependence, each thing Is it's own particular thing but it needs the rest of things to have it's particularity, each particularity allows the particularity of everything else

>>25208257
>nothing remains about oneself or the individual remains existent in Pariniravana
I agree that this can be problematic if taken as an ontological clam.
> Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta
>Vacchagotta asks if the Thathagatha is reborn, not reborn, both or neither, and the Buddha states that all four are not applicable.
The Theravada stance is that the question is flawed because it tries to describe the Thathagatha in terms of existence and non-existence, which presupposes something like a definable entity. So it's not applicable because according to Anatta, what we call a person is just the five aggregates, not an independent, permanent entity.
>veering too close to annihilationism
"Nothing more" is poor wording. I think a better way to say that is the aggregates we call the self ceases at parinirvana, so there's no basis for identifying any self or individual after parinirvana.

>Mahayana and Vajirayana
I don't know much about these two denominations or the theological differences.
Dhammakaya might be at odds with the strict interpretation of Anatta in the Theravada tradition where nothing should be taken as "me" or "mine" no matter how refined or subtle it is.

I wonder how many shitskins there are ITT

>>25204393
>why havent you read the pali canon
Its not translated

>>25205869
Dhammapada

>>25211768
MN 49
>“This one time, mendicants, I was staying near Ukkaṭṭhā, in the Subhaga Forest at the root of a magnificent sal tree. Now at that time Baka the Divinity had the following harmful misconception: ‘This is permanent, this is everlasting, this is eternal, this is whole, this is not liable to pass away. For this is where there’s no being born, growing old, dying, passing away, or being reborn. And there’s no other escape beyond this.’ ...

>When he had spoken, I said to him, ‘Oh lord, Baka the Divinity is lost in ignorance! Oh lord, Baka the Divinity is lost in ignorance! Because what is actually impermanent, not lasting, transient, incomplete, and liable to pass away, he says is permanent, everlasting, eternal, complete, and not liable to pass away. And where there is being born, growing old, dying, passing away, and being reborn, he says that there’s no being born, growing old, dying, passing away, or being reborn. And although there is another escape beyond this, he says that there’s no other escape beyond this.’

>Then Māra the Wicked took possession of a member of the retinue of Divinity and said this to me, ‘Mendicant, mendicant! Don’t attack this one! Don’t attack this one! For this is the Divinity, the Great Divinity, the Vanquisher, the Unvanquished, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, God Almighty, the Maker, the Creator, the First, the Begetter, the Controller, the Father of those who have been born and those yet to be born. ...
>So, mendicant, I tell you this: please, good fellow, do exactly what the Divinity says. Don’t go beyond the word of the Divinity. If you do, then you’ll end up like a person who, when approached by Lady Luck, would fend her off with a staff; or who, as they are falling over a cliff, would push away the ground with their hands and feet. Please, good fellow, do exactly what the Divinity says. Don’t go beyond the word of the Divinity. Do you not see the assembly of the Divinity gathered here?’

>When he had spoken, I said to Māra, ‘I know you, Wicked One. Do not think, “He does not know me.” You are Māra the Wicked. And the Divinity, the Divinity’s assembly, and the retinue of Divinity have all fallen into your hands; they’re under your sway. And you think, “Maybe this one, too, has fallen into my hands; maybe he’s under my sway!” But I haven’t fallen into your hands; I’m not under your sway.’

>>25212662
Monism simply means that the world is composed one kind of “substance”, be it physical substance (physicalism) or mental substance (idealism). Atomism on the other hand is about the specifics of how that substance is arranged and composed in its existence. Buddhist atomism and cosmology can be completely recast to have a physicalist picture while retaining its mythos, nirvana, karma and rebirth, but this is not in line with Buddhism as such physicalism would be identification with the body and the sensual world. Even neutral monism, and even treating pure nothingness or void as fundamental “substances” are problematic as these concepts lead to subtle forms of clinging that will eventually hinder one on the path to enlightenment. Therefore, Buddhism rejects these categories and such metaphysical speculation.

>>25207266
No I am not missing the point. If you do not believe in reincarnation which is integral to Buddhism then there is no argument against suicide. It makes no sense not to kill yourself if not for the caveat "you're going to be stuck in Samsara as a roach or a woman or a poo for another kalpa"