>>2862612
Unnecessary for the North Cascades unless you are only able to show up on a weekend and only want to go somewhere like Sahale.

>>2862614
my climbing partners are too cucked by their 9 to 5's to take off the middle of the week and gamble for a walk up permit :(

>oi mate you have a licence to walk here
land of the free btfoed

>>2862616
These are for backcountry camping. And they are necessary for certain spots because they become overcrowded without them.

>>2862612
kek do they really force you to get a permit for a giant mountain range?

>>2862618
>North Cascades
>becoming overcrowded
Try again.

>>2862612
do you have to seriously draw a hiking license these days? lmao

>>2862839
I said certain spots. Like the Sahale glacier camp.

That place would be overrun without permits.

>>2862840
Gatekeeping the average retard from the best parts of national parks is a good thing

>hiking in the west is so much better than in the east
>but if you want to do anything remotely fun or popular you need to pay a 20+ dollar daily entry fee and/or apply for a permit a year in advance that only is good for one specific day and you have to hike only on that day or you get arrested
lol

>>2862846
(1) It is a national park
(2) Permits are only for backcountry camping, not dayhiking

There are plenty of places that are not national parks and do not require permits of any kind.

>>2862848
maybe they should add more sites

>>2862849
It isn't about adding sites. It is that there are few particular sites which are very popular. There are many places you can randomly backcountry camp in the park, they just aren't as popular because they either don't have equivalent views or have equivalent views but are much more difficult to get to.

>>2862852
Most of the north cascades is wild with only very few developed, maintained trails. The rest of the trails that exist are steep unmaintained climbers trails.

>>2862852
it is literally about adding sites if there were 10x as many campsites you wouldn't need a lottery

>>2862853
build more trails
build more campsites
nature shouldn't be about keeping people out at risk of arrest

>>2862854
>it is literally about adding sites if there were 10x as many campsites you wouldn't need a lottery

No it isn't. The backcountry "campsites" here are not actually developed campsites in any sense. It is just an area you are allowed to camp, and because of natural terrain features, there are only so many spots in these areas you could reasonably pitch a tent.

>>2862858
flatten the land and build shelters out of wood or metal

>>2862612
>permits
laughs in right to roam

>>2862923
Wish granted. Your land is now overrun with jeets.

realistically whats stopping me from going out there and just walking around till i find a nice campsite and setting up shop?

>>2862859
> flatten the land
> backcountry

Are you fucking retarded? Even if that was on the table, space is not the only consideration here. They need to restrict traffic for the sake of preservation; the more people hiking and pitching tents, the more the backcountry is going to get trashed.

>>2862854
It is not literally adding sites, the land is federally designated wilderness which by law it has to retain wilderness character. That means room for solitude and land that is untrammeled and has no permanent structures. They dont have a choice, congress has told them to manage it this way

>>2863141
You can just stealth camp just dont be an asshole and camp in a designated spot that someone might have reserved i dont think anyone has a problem with this also sometimes shit happens and you can't make it back. Follow stealth camping code, set up at night and be out by the morning and no one gives a fuck campsites are just nicer and if you can reserve a spot you might as well

>>2863145
add trash cans
pay people to go in and clean it up every so often

>>2863146
abolish the wilderness designation
allow maintenance and alteration of all land via power tools along with blazes and signage and shelters and all that good stuff

>>2863153
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not from here, or that you've never done any backcountry stuff, and don't really know what that word entails. The demand to use these spaces has unfortunately grown exponentially over the past twenty years or so. Even if they weren't camping overnight, the increased foot traffic alone would trample vegetation to the point where it would significantly alter the area, and ruin the experience for everyone. There are plenty of accessible outdoor areas in the PNW that don't have these restrictions on them. We're not going to let you (or anyone else) ruin the few that are being properly managed and preserved.

>abolish the wilderness designation

Oh you're just a troll.

>>2862615
If they're not committed, you shouldn't be climbing with them.

>>2862842
This emerged because so many normies flooded the parks during the pandemic. The gatekeeping is good, but it's keeping out the wrong people.

File: no space must preserve forest.jpg (149 KB)

149 KB JPG

listen pal mkay there's basically nothing we can do besides limit people to this massive expanse, this particular section is in such a rare location that it's impossible to add another parking lot a half mile up the road in the normal run of the mill forest that we have to protect, I mean seriously we need to preserve these areas from any expansion no matter how large the population gets in fact we should probably just start dialing back how many people are allowed to be in nature at a time and which ones are allowed to be in nature at all seriously we should just ban everyone from the national parks and state parks and blm land and preserve it all for anyone who doesn't pay for a 10k/yr permit

>>2865296
Parking is not the issue there.

>>2865305
>>2865305
yeah dude we can never add any more trails and paths without completely ruining this place seriously we should ban everyone from even being within a 100 mile buffer zone of the forest roads that least to them because of the serious ecological damage that could be done if they made some more paths through this extremely fragile ecosystem that we HAVE to take care of, I mean seriously we need to be paid more money to maintain these few trails and paths otherwise mother nature would just take over the paths and the place would go back to being absolute wilderness within a few seasons do you even understand how fragile these places are?? but seriously the only solution is controlling people unless they pay enough

>>2865308
>maintain these few trails and paths otherwise mother nature would just take over the paths and the place would go back to being absolute wilderness within a few seasons

This is true though. Have you ever been to the North cascades? Have the roads out there get washed out every year. Everything gets covered in a bunch of down trees every year.

flatten the land and add more parking
this is silly

roads can be widened, trails can be maintained, shelters can be built, blazes can be added, parking can be expanded
the obstacle is PEOPLE, not the land

>>2865309
i've actually driven down some single lane ancient paved road that lead through the mountains somewhere near leavenworth until it was dead ended by overgrowth, I was being facetious because anon is pretending like these areas won't survive humans