>Typology never dies
It's complicated. People always want to categorize themselves and keep discarding typological systems only to eventually create another. Some are better than others.

>>84366280
If you ask me, Jung's typology is the most fundamental and, fittingly enough "archetypal" typology.
Everything else is derived from the split between the extraverted or introverted movement of the libido, and the activity/differentiation of the 4 functions used to perceive and read reality as a whole.

Today typology died it seems.
I blame /mbti/(specifically the r9k general, not just MBTI threads in general)

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>Go out of your way to chase off social posters
>wonders why the atmosphere isn't conducive to retaining posters and or activity

>>84367256
A thread only filled with social posting is as dead as one that's not in the catalog at all. So the only difference would be taking up a slot.

Who knows, it might be coming back.

>>84366207
Why are they alighned like that? Surely fire and water should be opposites. Maybe the confusion is trying to imply T/F and N/S are opposites instead of alternative ways of doing the same thing. After all N and S are both perceiving functions where F and T are both Judging. What do fire and water or F and S have in common?

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>>84367970
>Why are they alighned like that?
I was confused too at first, but it has to do with what the elements actually represent in alchemical symbolism.
Anon here explained it succinctly enough.

>>84367998
Ahh, I see. Also makes it look like you could put a kind of political compass on there now that I look at it further. Dibs on earth as best element. Earth types Ironically get 4 concepts instead of 3 and astro cosmology clearly mogs astro drama as a name. Also curious about cosmobiology since it sounds cool. Like it's either aliens and shit or gigantic organisms made out of stars and planets.

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>>84368138
Going to bet Earth is considered the "inferior function", which can be seen as both the coolest or lamest shit ever at the same time, be projected into the anima/animus to signify a certain attraction on one side, and repulsion on the other - and more importantly it's seen as the one completing an unstable trinity into a quaternity.

Other than that, old stuff I know, but I like how "Psychology and Alchemy" is a book about the 4 functions in the first place.

>>84367256
Rejection on of the socialfags isn't the issue.
The issue is that there was no offered viable replacement given by the one rejecting the socialfags.
Pseudofaggotry is not a viable alternative; and is, in fact, considerably worse.

Or, in more simple terms:
It's entirely possible to replace the socialfaggotry with typological discussion. But that discussion has to be good. (It wasn't.)

>>84368308
There is obviously a higher issue here.
How many people are even equipped to have a good typological discussion given your standards? Personally I'd settle for "it has to do with the topic, and it's not about somebody fresh off 16p", more than anything it needs curious people, not necessarily well-read, but willing to engage beyond using the thread as an alternative to discord with fancier labels.

>>84368353
Practically everyone is equip to have a good typological discussion. Even those who have little to no understanding.
Typological discussion does not preclude socialfagging, nor does it preclude uninformed postings. Both of these are part and parcel.

I think the problem is joongists setting the barrier to entry way too high for an r9k threas. There's no way someone is gonna want to show off their 16 personalities result for the first time and by greeted with individuation spam. And they were incredibly mean and condescending about it too. The problem is this is also the social faggots were able to set the expected bar too high since they were able to have multi month/year long conversations over their own bullshit. Anons have to start pretty close to the base line of what is "commonly known" every time they start a discussion because there isn't any way of knowing what page other anons are on. People saw the level of off topic social fagging and expected that if they swept that away they'd have the same level of engagement with their particular flavour of pseudoscience.

Like the other anon said, to justify killing social faggorty it was required to replace it with "good" discussion which is
>A lot of pressure on the people doing it, reducing the fun and engagement
>Much harder to do anonymously

The new captchas probably didn't help either.

Basically if you aren't happy talking about infp Vs intp stereotypes for 90% of the thread then you should surely be smart enough to start an actual reading group, or maybe even study/write/debate at a university, right? I'm sure the boffins there would love you and take you seriously. High concept Jung posting should be a rare treat rather than your expected baseline.

>>84368353
What's wrong with fresh off 16P? You can't strangle babies all day and then wonder why there aren't any children.

>>84368536
the problem is that a small handful of wanna-be Jungians have deemed socialfagging to be the antithesis of typology discussion. When that is in fact, false.
Most social posting is far closer to actual typology than the fake-Jungians will ever get. At least the socialfags talk about real perspectives, real experiences. While many of the fake-Jungians say nothing of substance and hide behind multiple layers of abstraction in order to claim a false superiority.

>>84368519
Fair enough.

>>84368536
At least personally, I don't expect the baseline to be anything beyond the raw surface.
Socialfagging is by definition not engaging with the topic, but rather trying to engage with the people, so as you pointed out it can create a different kind of issue that raises a completely different bar.

>>84368543
Gotta pretend we have some standards at least. Being able to tell the difference between 16p and Jung/Myers-Briggs/other stuff like Socionics is a basic skill and shows the individual at very least cared enough to explore the topic to an extent.
Doesn't even matter if you are going to type yourself in MBTI without even knowing what the fuck is an inferior function, at very least you took the first baby step. Then you can spend all day memeing about INTPs and INFPs accordingly to at least the vaguest idea of what they are supposed to be.

>>84368627
>Socialfagging is by definition not engaging with the topic
This is just blatantly false.

>>84368627
>Being able to tell the difference between 16p and Jung/Myers-Briggs/other stuff like Socionics is a basic skill
Yeah but it's something I like saying! And how can I feel smart if I'm saying it to a crowd of people who already know?

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>Your type
>Have you heard a voice in your head lately? Did it seem friendly or domineering?
>Has the weather been unseasonably dark and unreasonably damp in your dreams? Or have you been upgraded to the timeshare package?
>Where were you when the World stood still --- again?

>>84368613
>Most social posting is far closer to actual typology
>At least the socialfags talk about real perspectives, real experiences.
Huge lol at the first.
As for the second, as opposed to what exactly? There is no such a thing as a "false perspective" here, only "another type's perspective". Even what you call abstraction could be seen as the real experience of a different type.

>>84368637
In what way exactly? If you are here to engage with people without any consideration for what the funny labels mean, then at very best it can be argued you are the raw empirical material, a test subject, but hardly an active participant to the discussion above it.

>>84368678
Well I just happen to know several ways to do that. All of them involve reading.

>people implying the joongists and social fags were too discrete sets of people
At least by the end they weren't

>>84368717
>Reading
Hissssssssss. Id sooner die.

>>84368176
>picrel
https://voca.ro/1bKxrje8SA9u
Novice necromancers I stg

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Now FUCKING behave so Hekate will make a cameo, okay? I'll try to LEVD BY EXVMPLE

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>>84368732
>Implying set
Scissor jiggy is a hard word to spell for a reason it's
BURUSHITTO~ *,"

>>84368740
The power of audiobooks compel thee, demon!

>>84368717
>As for the second, as opposed to what exactly?
As opposed to a purely one sided abstracted theoretical perspective which lacks experience.
Theory without practice is useless, that is a core idea to Jungian psychology. Socialfagging is literally the practice of psychology.

Also, something to clarify:
When I say "real experience" I mean something like "touch grass". Thinking about grass as an abstracted concept does not move you any closer to a real experience with that grass.
>>84368717
In the same exact way that someone playing football, or talking about playing football is participating in a mathematical discussion.
You don't need to talk about typology in a purely abstracted definitional sense in order to talk about typology. And in fact, you're further from a real typological discussion than someone merely shooting the shit.

A real Jungian would understand that the best discussion exists in the tension between the two opposing forces. Not the repression of one or the other in order to create a one sided playing field.

>>84368774
Sizor jigie? But that's two words!
Good audiobooks are hard to find, they've gone from scratchy bullshit to AI bullshit. Also when I look at real books I go straight to the pictures, and there's no pictures in audiobooks. Still, what would be number one on my ear reading list anyway?

>>84368715
>ISTJ
>Have you heard a voice in your head lately? Did it seem friendly or domineering?
Yes. But they sounded concerned more than either of those options.
Has the weather been unseasonably dark and unreasonably damp in your dreams? Or have you been upgraded to the timeshare package?
The weather has been unseasonably dark and damp both in my dreams and real life.
>Where were you when the World stood still --- again?
I have no idea what that means

There are always [[[CVRTOONS]]] for the Special Children
https://youtu.be/Rq4XyQ6TNHY
But you need the heart chakra (weapon not energy center) intuition honefinement shortcut then it's anywhere /nod nod

>>84368878
I appreciate that you answered sincerely. It may seem quirky randumb ecks dee but argot has its utility, as does being underestimated.

Can you tell me more about this voice and what it was concerned about?

>>84368892
Oh fuck Harry Dresden sighting at 16:40

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Well :33 specifically

>>84368809
>As opposed to a purely one sided abstracted theoretical perspective which lacks experience.
And like I said, that's merely a different type of experience. Besides, who is to say that experience can only happen inside this thread? It's one of the strangest assumptions that often gets thrown around.
If anyone wants to speak about how the theory relates to stuff that happened in their life, that wouldn't exactly be the same as socialfagging.

>A real Jungian
Thank god I'm Anon, not a Jungian.

>>84368892
They didn't really say any words that I could make out. More of a hello kind of thing just checking that I was alright and wanting to cuddle up. Pretty sure one of them was my mother and the other was my girlfriend. Very brief and I was fading in and out of sleep at the time. Very sorry to disappoint.

How to we find non-Jungian typology? I want to automatically categorize people without the woo.

>>84368892
I don't like cartoons, they move too fast. I like pictures because I can look at them in a non intrusive way for a while

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>>84369126
Contemplative versus directed meditation!
>Some sleep to guides, some are guided to sleep

>>84369055
Reading a book on how to repair an engine is not experience repairing engines.
Thinking about touching grass is not the experience of touching grass.

I'm drawing a differentiating line, one separating theory, which is abstract; and experience, which is concrete.
Yes, you can experience things while you think about them, but what you're experiencing is your own thoughts.

>>84369110
https://voca.ro/15I3KEEPrk46

>>84368176
So are you reading psychology and alchemy from cover to cover and haven't finished it yet? I'm guessing based on the colour of it gold is a combination of earth and fire. Also looking at the triangle symbol things made me think, earth and air appear relational to the horizon, but fire and water are just kinda doing their own thing. Could relate to intuition and sensation being more primative/undifferentiated from the external world than judging functions. But again that would only make sense if air was intuition, which it isn't in the chart, so what do I know I'm not an expert on any of this.

>Turn an unstable trinity into a quaternary
Makes me wonder if the elements were decided upon one at a time or just spawned in as a complete set. Was there ever a time where philosophers thought there was only three elements, or was it wittled down from a larger number? I can't imagine the Chinese had metal forever. Ok perhaps maybe I should read a book. A history book!

>>84369187
Thank you mr evil technodemon

>>84369187
The CIA is beaming hidden messages into my teeth with this vocaroo

Typing people in Jungian isn't honestly the hardest thing ever, many issues originate either from:
>not wanting to read the original source and instead reading literally everything else
>missing the whole division between behavior and conscious/unconscious attitude

If you are dealing with normal people who aren't highly neurotic, worst thing that can happen after you know the terms and the framework is wondering which auxiliary function is more typical of the person you are trying to type, but even then the original types were 8 for a reason - that being trying to capture the more essential and arguably static parts before we discuss about the dynamisms.

Speaking from experience here, right now if I wonder whether I mistyped somebody, it's either:
>the most volatile aspect regarding a favored auxiliary function, you can always go for claiming the individual/character just doesn't have one that's particularly differentiated or opposite way around, they switch easily enough
>not enough information to determine the presence of an inferior function, and at the same time a dominant and auxiliary function that are both pronounced enough
I'd say that once you get it, these will be the only real obstacles left.

>>84369192
Not finished yet, for now I was trying to single out some of the most relevant parts to put down in my notes, as you can see with the highlight there.

>>84369226
The Chinese demon in my [lamp] just spoke to me as soon as I finished reading this post

>>84369208
Sigheeeee. I guess you'""" have to finditinthe Akasha. Dad sedz no spoispoi

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Did someone say CIA?
https://www.pasf.org/pasq/pasq.htm

IFU gang rise up!
https://www.pasf.org/pasq/desc/ppt/IFU.htm

>>84369150
I just wish I could be guided to guides. I can usually sleep pretty well on my own. Not that I'd actually engage with any of them.

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>ICK keep that thing I don't understand away from me so I can pretend to have learned/created all its lessons
K W A B I S H I

Here, try it like this:

>>84369339
You know full well I told them to follow their watchword spirit animal and never post it here

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E *xhale*

>BS IT WASN'T BUTTMAD-SAN LOLE

>>84369339
Oh shit I remember this one.
It's funny to think that intelligence services actually concerned themselves with typologies while many people like to treat is as a horoscope or pretend they can't "believe" in basic shit like "there are introverted types".

>>84369424
Well you know how intelligence services like to muddy the waters with anything they're even a little interested in with a flood of total bullshit. They also feel the need to investigate total bullshit just in case there's some kind of slight niche use case they don't want the ruskies to get to first. The writing also seems pretty self conscious about not wanting to be like *those people*, accusing everything and their shadows of being schizophrenic. The focus is of course on how effective people are.

Nowadays of course they usually just use the big 5 to find low openness chuds to push pro-israel right wing slopulism on. Or at least that was 10 years ago. I think big 5 research is still being done at least. Which yes does have introversion as a trait, but everyone knows scales are more scientific than traits so it's not pseudoscience anymore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aga_of_Kish
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_(urban_planning_and_architecture)
>>84369110
Start studying the true architecture of the House of God and find the echo of your Soul within it. Follow it and do not begin the pursuit if you are not willing to complete it.

If nothing else, making meaningful connections in real life and learn by human experience.

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Don't confuse aimless wandering for seeking
You mind find yourself lost in the forest with that sorf of misidentification
Following someone you mistake for a leader.
When in reality, there was no destination.
And you lose the rope, find yourself down a rabit hole
with invisible talking cats whose smiles stretch their entire face
Ala alice in wonderland

Stop larping as me you little shit!

>>84370138
Is aimless wandering fine if I don't get ahead of myself?

>>84370151
I think you misunderstood the intent of that message, anon.
It's not saying one should not wander aimlessly. But that an onlooker should not confuse the aimless wandering for being lost. Because being lost implies that you have a destination.
And believing someone has a destination when they do not means you're liable to get lost yourself.

You see?

Funny that any essential-ism with a prefix is an affront to Essentialism. Innit? ;^)

>>84370167
Sounds like a cop out to me. If someone doesn't have a destination then something has gone horribly wrong with their lives. They're double lost and should probably figure out a destination before wasting their energy next time.

I suppose I shouldn't be concerning myself with what other people are doing too much though. If that's the message

>>84370146
Who is larping as you and who are you? Alestor from Hazbin Hotel?

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https://voca.ro/1FCZmVOFDDPX
And
/scene

>>84370202
That's what it means to be aimless, anon. Aim implies target implies desired destination.
I'm not speaking from a moral sense of what anyone should or ought to do.

One cannot be lost if one has no destination.
But, you know.. You know, nevermind.
>>84370214
Does it matter either way? No, not really. But she's really mean and rude.

double dare everyone ITT to read a chapter of the nearest book to your left or no balls

[Anya hungry. Anya require your sound and data bites, thank you. Anya overthrowing NWO with Ice Bear.]

To my left is a wall.

>>84370247
I suppose it doesn't matter really. But it's nice to be informed
>Mean and rude
Aren't we all? This is r9k on 4chan after all. Bet we have a pretty low average agreeableness and high neuroticism.

*chops off own balls*

Oh, Patchy is back, I see?

How many balls can one femboy possibly posess?

Zero, after chopping them off.

Pretty sure he reaches between his legs and gathers new ones from his victims as replacenents

LILAC, CENTAUR IS PRETENDING TO BE A WOMAN TO TRY AND SEDUCE ME!

>>84370390
That was fast.

Can't say I didn't prophesie it. - But I'm no Cassandra. Geminis.. maybe there's something to astrology after all.

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NOBODY FUKKIN ASKED YOU LADY

>Kris trying to reverse-psychology Centaur into being weak to more catfishing
Already? Shamefur dispray. Wasn't INFPrince committing sudoku for you enough?

>>84370478
I'M SICK OF YOUR GAMES, OKAY?
I'VE HAD IT UP TO HERE -

What types are best for an INFJ?

>>84369339
Finally did this again and got

Overall profile:IRU

Intellectual Dimension: Internalizer (I) with relative strength (0-20) of 4
Procedural Dimension: Regulated (R) with relative strength (0-20) of 0
Social Dimension: Role Uniform (U) with relative strength (0-20) of 6
Medium Activity Level

I suppose the results in the middle make sense. I've never been much of anything either way on anything.

>The primary danger to the maturity of the [IRA] is that he may mask his autism and self-centeredness by his apparent adaptability and impressionistic social-interpersonal skills. His fundamental lack of maturity may not become obvious until it is too late to do much about it. But passivity and nonresponsiveness of the [IRU] is very obvious, almost from the beginning, and provokes in parents or parent substitutes a definite concern.

You can say that again

>>84370928
>Reading comprehension
Oh I related to the IRA bit more my bad. Guess this whole system is total slop

>>84369867
To be fair, the original also doesn't actually work in traits. You have a type but it can be more or less pronounced.
It's why some people can't quite figure out which type they actually are, while others get more consistent results or are able to tell you from theory alone.

Also yea, intelligence services would be quick to label even highly differentiated intuition as "schizo" because the most dangerous thing for them is suspecting something is off/inorganic/a directed effort to impress certain facts upon people. It's genuinely the types they would hate the most.

>>84370570
Best for what? Fucking? Unironically just an ESxP.
For a long-term thing? Ultimately depends more on other things outside the scope of types, but personally I'd avoid marrying your opposite type to avoid delegating the inferior function to them, which could create a dependency.

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Did we ever discuss about the "esse in anima" principle?

That was something I had grasped intuitively at, though I didn't notice it was roughly explained straight in PT, and then even better in the 1925 seminar.
Jung maintains a middleground between "naive realism"(or "esse in re", basically the claim that we are truly able to perceive reality exactly as is) and a more solipsistic position that would argue all of reality is just a product of your mind(or "esse in intellectu solo").

He claims that our psyche(and not our body, important distinction) perceives reality through a psychic image, or "subjective image".
This image is shaped both by outer factors and inner factors, and this applies both to our perception of the external world, but also the archetypes. We never see the archetype directly either, only the way it has entered the psychic image.
(and the logical consequence here is that the archetype can show itself to the psyche both as an external or internal factor)

Usually when I speak of functions regardless of what your type is, I conceive them as 4 ways to deal with your psychic contents and bring them to consciousness, as well as producing more contents. This is especially useful to put a clear separation between terms such as "Sensation" and the literal sense activity, it would be more accurate to say that you are relating the psyche to the sensory input and impressions through the function of Sensation - it also helps a lot to differentiate functions from certain skills, instinct, attention, intelligence, empathy, memory, etc.
I'd argue this also applies to extraversion and introversion: the actual difference between these two attitudes is whether you are (consciously) more influenced by the "outer pole" or "inner pole" of the psychic image - as opposed to a specific set of behaviors/social attitudes.

So the idea of types maps neatly enough to the idea of having a different framework, closer to Socionics interpretation.

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Taking the next step, it's easy enough to see the relationship between the functions, the effect on the psychic image, and the alchemical lore:

Sensation is similar to Earth because it's an operation of passive relation: the psychic image is related to and becomes as far as possibile equivalent to the sense activity/impression, and fittingly enough we could say it "grounds" the image then.

Feeling is similar to Water because it is also an operation of passive relation: the subject(s) and his/her values are shaped around the psychic image, treating it as a container of some sort, and flows into it.

Thinking is similar to Air because that's an active affliction upon the image, it moves in-between things, causing them to split into different objects, and much like a strong wind, it takes up what has broken from the image "into the air", or we could say it separates and abstracts from the image.

Intuition is similar to Fire because it actively consumes the image to produce a different one, which will also be consumed just as quickly. The element is supposed to be seen as generative as opposed to purely destructive, and the primal spark behind everything, much like Jung says that everything in your mind begins as Intuition.

My man really went in and wrote "psychologism" btw. And I thought nothing could beat "wordism"