>>97847877
Honestly i never got the big bad evil guy thing. It was always a series of smaller adventures with different adversaries for me.
My dm for the longest time though was all for it with a rotating cast of 3-4 bbegs fucking everything up left and right

>>97847877
>Do you prefer campaigns to have one BBEG that's the main goal start to finish, or a tapestry of miscreants with their own goals and areas of influence?
Both.
Makes for more complex scenarios when a bunch of villains that may be or not working under the BBGG step on each other toes due to conflicting interests and such.
It's also enables scenarios where one of them raises above the rest and the BBEG comes down to erase the guy from existence. Helps put the fear of god on the players.
That said, my favorite is a sandbox scenarios with movers and shakers and all that shebang.
No actual end in sight, just a world with things happening in it and people and entities with their own plots and machinations.

Can someone tell me what makes psionic warriors bad? They seem to be able to do a lot of things. Are they just not focused enough?

>>97848237
Who says that? Psi warriors are perfectly competent martials with a lot of neat little tricks

>>97848237
At lot of people just find psionics boring and gay in general.

>>97848237
First you have to determine if the person means "bad" in that the class fails to cohere and isn't fun to play or mechanically interesting, or if it's "bad" in that it's worse than a minmaxed caster. It's certainly the latter but that's most classes and most builds, and that doesn't come up often in actual play. As for the former, it's a fighter that trades d10 HD and full BAB for d8, 3/4ths, and a spattering of powers that require your martial to not dump wisdom. That's nothing to write home about but it's also not unplayable, just something you need to like intrinsically as a concept in order to be drawn to the class.

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>>97848237
Psychic warriors are a tier 3 base class,same tier as a Warblade or a Beguiler or Bard. Plenty powerful enough. The person who told you they're bad is just wrong.

>>97848237
They make for fantastic tanks, Damp Power and Empathic Transfer, Hostile alone make it worth it

>>97848237
To my understanding, it's not that they're not focused enough, it's that you need to look over the awkwardly-fragmented options and carefully consider the marginal benefits to not choke on action economy or the PP:ML ratio. Absolutely HORRIBLE floor if you fuck up your expenses.

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Is there a way to makes Bard summoning viable in 3.5? I know they get Summon Monsters I - VI but it feels like it just doesn't keep up even with Augment Summoning.

>>97848532
that's a druid with a guitar.
Well compared to a full caster then obviously they cant really compete but it's sill viable.
I wouldn't call it optimal though.
if you want optimised bard summoning then tough lack because the best and biggest buffs to summoning are gated behind alternative class features so besides your lagging behind in spell progression they will never be akin to wizard summons

>hate my character
>About halfway through the campaign (14 sessions so far)
What do? I think the dm made some stuff specifically for this character later down the road that hes looking forward to running but i just dont enjoy playing this personality/backstory anymore

>>97848563
so it wouldbe fertile ground for homebrew?

>>97848584
Have you talked to the DM about it one on one? Ask if there's a way to swap characters or a way to fix the issues you're having. Also, the personality of the character is something completely in your control, if you need that to change over time you can do so.

>>97848850
NTA, but most definitely for how neatly the Concentration hangup on Bards fits with the extra action economy aspect of summons being a problem. Figure out how much of a gap there is with existing summoning-specialists first, then break that down between Bardic Music bonuses, granting "extra" Summon Monster levels, and just arbitrarily juicing the summons. Possibly further split between ACF-stack and PRC.

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>>97847877
who win 3e versions

>>97848887
Ive talked a little bit and I think he prefers just changing this characters personality. Its also the backstory I have an issue with since I feel like ive played out all I can with it. Id welcome him to kill off my character honestly

>>97849084
I'd suggest talking more. Having a character run headfirst into a brick wall until the player can reroll isn't fun for anyone, and if you're not having fun it's worth solving the problem. Just make sure you find out what the problem actually is. Could be the backstory, could be you're out of ideas, could be other players getting their turn in the spotlight, could be wholly unrelated.

>>97849049
Do you think feats that let a bard specifically summon 1 or 2 extra creatures with his summons if theyre from bard spellcasting would be overpowered? I know better > more when it comes to summoned creatures, but possibly also something that lets him double his inspire courage effects for creatures summoned by him, to buff their stats further?

>>97848887
>>97849084
On our table, if you are sick of a character, you just make a new one after figuring out a way to have the old one not be actively engaging in the party's shenanigans, then this old character becomes an NPC, still doing their things in the background.
Since this game has been going on for so damn long, there are a ton of PCs turned NPCs, some even still traveling with the party.
Then when something big happens, and some of these ex-PCs that are still around get involved, some players get to control them in addition to their own PCs.
Right now we are storming some sacred place that's being corrupted by a black dragon and we have quite a few NPCs in tow, most being ex-PCs, and each player gets to control one, using a simplified version of the character sheet.
It's pretty dope.

>>97848532

Go Sublime Chord

>>97848850
with homebrew you can do anything you want honestly.
>>97849147
I don't find that a bad idea at all. Restrict the summoning lists of bard to getting more critters out there and remove the larger stronger summons and in exchange do something like allowing the use of bardic music to enhance your summon spell by making it 1 spell level higher.
If you want for inspire to work better on your summons just make it a feat that calculates the bonuses as if the bard was 4 levels higher or something the like that

>>97849066
Raistlin but then he'd ruin the world in some way & have to choose not to be evil gor the benefit of everyone, because Raistlin's schtick is being competent & ruthless enough to achieve whatever powerlevel he wants, but cursed to give a shit

>>97849147
Just take dragonfire inspiration or whatever its called

>>97849084
>>97848584
I find this an odd problem so many people have. They think that their characters work backwards. That your backstory is relevant & must remain relevant, or that they cant attain new goals or change their outlook. Its the opposite. Your character is moving forward. Create new goals & become focused on something novel instead of what came before.

People need to learn more from Conan (books) he just shows up, does shit, & moves on. His goal is usually killing a dude, saving someone, or stealing something. Sometimes he's just trying to outrun his own bad choices. His backstory isnt relevant. His personality ranges from angry barbarian upstart who will gut anyone who threatens or insults him on the barest of pretexts, to boastful mercenary getting drunk & fucking women, just looking for more gold so he can get more drunk & fuck more women, to contemplative aging king who regretfully spares the life of traitor because theyre a poet & he doesnt want to see their music die.

Theres a place for backstories that pay off & long stories with a begining middle & end, but sometimes its better to just go with the flow, focus on really caring about short term goals & base materialistic things.

A character avenging their dead master's story ends when his master is avenged. Sure he might pick up new adventures but then they usually have to relate back to that first adventure, a new rival, or a person he slighted now wants their revenge or the person they thought was the villain was just a catspaw, etc. After a while it becomes reductive. You loose the plot. You wonder why this dude just doesnt retire. Meanwhile Conan's story ends when he dies. He can be anywhere doing anything for just about any reason & no one is gonna question it.

>>97849416
>with homebrew you can do anything you want honestly.
True. I was more asking because I didn't want to make redundant homebrew, I should have clarified that intially my bad.
> in exchange do something like allowing the use of bardic music to enhance your summon spell by making it 1 spell level higher.
Do you think that'd be required to make it viable or would simply being able to summon 1 or 2 additional creatures and add +100% to the buffing from inspire courage be enough? Genuine question. I would be open to both options as they both sound really cool. But the important thing is to make the bard be able to use bardic music to make their summoning a viable option.

>>97849722
>>97849247
Both good options. Although a doubled inspire courage bonus might make Dragonfire Inspiration a bit OP (I've already witnessed it become very strong even without such) so perhaps any ability that does so should be phrased as "this ability provides the second half of the bonus and does not count as part of the bonus from Inspire Courage [but somehow stacks with it, so it might have to be a circumstance bonus or something like that that represents interplanar synergistic energy]"

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Bumping with an example of what I'm talking about. Would it be better to replace one of, or both of, these abilities that let you summon an extra creature, with one that lets you summon one from a level higher on the summon monster table, by spending a bardic music use? I feel like one of them letting you do that and the other letting you spend them to summon an additional creature, is cool. I like the downside that they go away if your performance ends, but that might be too much of a downside.

>>97852062
I'm a little leery about that mostly because same as a Divine Metamagic cleric, turning a defining class feature into ammunition tends to have unintended interactions with other items/mechanics and also causes the class to lose identity. The allure of the summoning bard is the army in a can with the bard buffing all the summons, not a worse sorcerer.

>>97849914
i think it would make it more thematically fitting. In lower to mid levels it would be viable.
You spend your first turn summoning a pack of critters and then drop some inspire onto them and the rest of your party.
Both options can work mechanically. Well having better options for creatures to summon is definitely better than the small increase that you would get from the doubling of inspire courage buff at the early levels and at high levels the opposite would be true.

>>97852131
You can already turn bardic music into ammunition for metamagic if that' makes it less bad.
Actually, >>97852062 take a look at metamagic song. There's probably some way to use that to make Bard better at summoning, specially when paired with Sublime Chord.

>>97852062
What level is this PrC available by? Hymn of Unearthy Resilience might be better tied to Bards by making it Inspire Greatness' effect, rather than just temp HP. You could rename Lesser Planar Harmonics into Planar Harmonics, make it increment at level 4 automatically, and have a different feature at 4.

>>97847877
>Do you prefer campaigns to have one BBEG that's the main goal start to finish, or a tapestry of miscreants with their own goals and areas of influence?
I never do a single BBEG unless it's an iconic one like Tiamat or Vecna. I always have a sprawling campaign with lots of situtations, lots of different factions, with their own players/big bads.

>>97852131
>The allure of the summoning bard is the army in a can with the bard buffing all the summons, not a worse sorcerer.
Very good point. That's why I'm thinking of requiring the bardic music effect to still be in effect for the extra creature(s) to stick around.
Do you think it'd be better if the prestige class simply focused on bardic music giving exceptional benefits to monsters summoned by the bard? I don't want it to replace inspire courage benefiting the party, but I also don't want these class features to benefit the party, because I want it to be focused on summoned creatures. Which might seem a bit selfish, but it's jut the class' identity.

>>97853770
>What level is this PrC available by?
5 or 6. Although Inspire Greatness is a good metric to go by. This should be better than that, if it's going to only apply to summoned monsters. I don't like it as a PC feature because it usually causes confusion at the table (but then I play 3.5 with some people who aren't the best with the rules).

>>97852949
>take a look at metamagic song.
It looks strong. I actually did not know that that existed. I guess that could let you summon more monsters with Empower Spell? I do want this to be able to boost it above the normal summon monster limit. Basically:
>make the summoned monsters harder to dispel due to musico-magical interference in the air protecting them
>summon more monsters with bardic spellcasting/music
>summon better monsters with bardic spellcasting/music
>easy-to-track buffs (like temp hp or to-hit bonuses) for summoned monsters (I don't want the nightmare of Augment Summoning where people have to constantly recalculate stats).

>>97856773
>bardic music giving exceptional benefits to monsters summoned by the bard
I think that's the best way to go about it. Even something as simple as giving an extra +1 to inspire courage for summons (and letting it affect the party as normal) would go a long way for reinforcing the intended playstyle. Doubling the effect of songs on summons might be a bit much, something close to that might be nice.

You could also experiment with allowing the bard to cast a summon spell while maintaining bardic music, and/or having the summons last until the end of bardic music even if their duration would normally run out.

>>97856865
>Doubling the effect of songs on summons might be a bit much, something close to that might be nice.
I would agree but I want this prestige class to come close to making the bard almost as good as a cleric or wizard for summoning. Especially since the bard will be giving up some higher level features for it. And summoning IS strong, but just by itself, it's not game breaking (a class that could only cast summon monster spells would be tier 3 in my opinion at best, whereas I believe bard is normally tier 2 as is, but I don't know the tier system well).

>You could also experiment with allowing the bard to cast a summon spell while maintaining bardic music, and/or having the summons last until the end of bardic music even if their duration would normally run out.
That's a nice idea, actually. Making summons go further rather than simply making them stronger. Requires a party to have good tactical timing though.

>>97856773
>That's why I'm thinking of requiring the bardic music effect to still be in effect for the extra creature(s) to stick around.
"Sympathetic" might be a better term, then, especially if it's extra summons of a different level (which could progress from one lower to equal-but-different to one higher); gets used for extra strings on some instruments that resonate to create harmonic tones automatically.

>Even something as simple as giving an extra +1 to inspire courage for summons (and letting it affect the party as normal) would go a long way for reinforcing the intended playstyle.
In some aspects of the numeric analysis, the fact you're getting extra summons to apply the bonus to already creates most of the desired dynamic.

>and/or having the summons last until the end of bardic music even if their duration would normally run out.
Oh that is a good one.

Just found out about the Void subtype in the 3.5 wizard archives. It's really interesting subtype which has the best stealth in the game, completely hidden from all perception except true sight, 50% concealment, & you can activate it/deactivate it as a Free Action. You can straight up Batman in/out of every scene.

>>97858079
>Void Subtype: Void creatures are made of the same empty space that comprises the Void. Normal creatures (that is, creatures without the void subtype) cannot see them unless the void creature makes its presence known, either by an act of will (a free action) or by attacking. A void creature has total concealment (50% miss chance) unless it reveals itself. See invisibility and invisibility purge don't reveal void creatures, but true seeing does. Blindsight and blindsense don't reveal void creatures. Members of the void disciple class can see void creatures. Once it reveals itself, a void creature remains visible until it uses a free action to conceal itself again.
Holy shit.
How do you get this? Some template?

>>97858098
Well Shapechange/Mind Switch/Soul Jar/etc into the Voidwalker or Savage Species Wish Ritual to add the subtype, or convince your DM to make a variant of the Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis that uses the Void subtype instead of the Dark subtype, or convince your DM to make a custom spell that works like Mantle of the Icy Soul, granting the Void Subtype

>>97858079
>>97858098
>>97858221
As in the Warcraft Voidwalker?

>>97858261
No. Oriental Adventures Web Enhancement Dwellers in the Void

https://web.archive.org/web/20190918181127/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20031219a

>>97857212
>"Sympathetic" might be a better term, then
You're right. Yeah my vocabulary has definitely taken a dive in recent years. Used to be an amater musician too.

>In some aspects of the numeric analysis, the fact you're getting extra summons to apply the bonus to already creates most of the desired dynamic.
I hope so. I'll have to compare the CRs / stats of summoned creatures to see how much of a stats boost would be required. But honestly, if it's attack bonus is around 1.5x character level it should be pretty capable of hitting.

In my home game, played through PF1's Beginner Box adventure. Shoved it into our first AP as a means to give the group a bit more exp and loot to account for a slower exp track.
Group got through their first 'dungeon and dragons' adventure - had dungeons, had dragons. Most of them came close to death at one point or another and out of 6 pcs (2 spares) and 2 hirelings + a DM npc to guide them, another one bites the dust.
RIP the best char they rolled - an aasimar, unicorn bloodline, sorcerer with 18 Cha.
He would have been awesome, but he rolled only 2 hp for his first level and one of the kids left him in a straight line with the group's crossbow-man. Both took the Black Fang's (gimped young dragon) breath to the face and the sorceror bit it on the spot with 10 points of damage.
on the other hand, the 5 pcs that survived now have like 12k in loot between them at level 1, so there is that.

I think that module was designed to kill a standard party of 4 because I had to switch up loot and provide a DM pc to give them a chance against the dragon. Without that all, I don't see how 1st level pcs make it through that one. That dragon breathes for 3d6, has attacks with +10/+9/+9 and faces off against the party when they've had 5 CR 1 fights behind them.

>>97862330
>Rolling for the first level
Bruh, the game outright tells you to take max HP for your first level no matter what. By all means, roll after that if you want, but that death was deserved for stupidity.

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>>97858079
There's an odd "half-dead" special quality which is worded like a subtype for Aberrations but appears on exactly one monster (the dolghast from Magic of Eberron).
>Immune to fatigue/exhaustion, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease and death effects
>50% fortification
>Healed by both positive and negative energy effects, but must always make a saving throw against them and on a failed save it takes damage instead.

More goodies from the archives

https://web.archive.org/web/20190819211515/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20041215a

Nydor's Psychic Imprint let's you duplicate people's minds. It specifically duplicate the freeze frame of their personality so a victim of Charm Person will be subsequently charmed. This mind can then be used to create an Intelligent Item. I can just imagine a cool villain who bewitched their victims & creates all sorts of objects

Does a wonderous item that casts a spell 3/day count as a spell completion item or a spell trigger item? Do these count as charges?

Is there a good place to search for groups for this edition?
I want to try and learn this system a bit better, so I'd really enjoy doing some one-off campaigns as I get more accustomed to the rules and playing into that role.
I've played a bit of 5e, and played some CRPGs based on 2e, so I'm not starting from complete zero, but I've got a lot of studying to do first.

>>97863955

Trigger, and uses/day are not charges. A wand is something with charges.

>>97864449
Im just trying n g to figure out a cheap way to get wish. You can use Wand Surge or Power Surge to get free charges on spell trigger items, but you cant make wands of wish, only a staff, which needs you to be 12th level which isnt soon enough for me.

>>97864385
You'd think with this general going back aeons we'd have a LFG system set up but it's mostly a crapshoot. I hear less-than-terrible things about sifting through roll20 groups but at this point 3.5's a bit niche.

Is there a Shadow Plane equivalent to being ethereal?

>>97864385
>https://www.myth-weavers.com/
>https://www.rpgcrossing.com/
>https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?76-Find-a-Game
GitP and minmaxforum too I suppose.
Basically, the grognard centrals.
Also, reddit, random ass discord servers, roll20.
Role Gate I guess?

>>97867756
Why are so many of them during the week?
is the standard Monday to Friday work week that rare these days?
Maybe I really should swap over to morning shift at my job. it pays a dollar less per hour for some reason, but it gets out at 1PM. Of course, I'd also need to go to bed at 8PM to wake up for that shift, but it might be better than my only free time starting at 10 at night.

>>97869545
Most people i know do Tuesday-Saturday or Sunday-Thursday anymore

>>97869545
On weekends people have shit to do with their kids. Easier to find time on a school night.

Is there a guide or anything about getting the most out of fist weapons?

>>97875631
there's probably something buried on the gitp forums but nothing comes explicitly to mind

>>97876249
Thats what I thought. Either minmax or giantitp would have some "fist weapon guide" but google hasnt turned up much.

Anyhow I had the idea (while looking into stacking personalities into a single item) that you can use Crawling Claw/Minor Servitor on a Gauntlet/Ward Cestus & enchant it with Flying & Sizing (my two favorite enchantments) & boom youd have friendly hands with access to Feats & Skills which could help out in a lot of ways. Fly in the palm of their hand. Use one as cover. Use them as tiny spies. Have them deliver buffs & heals to party members. Aid Another. Flanking. Help out around your workshop handing you tools, etc. They could do anything youd ever think to use Mage Hand on & more. You could let them fight as is, or even give them weapons themselves to carry into battle. Imagine a fist flying through the air, charging at you with a lance! Hilarious. Also any number of Three Stooges routines.

I personally would give make them as well made Glassteel or Riverine hands, then cover them with strong reinforced but nice looking white silk gloves enchanted to be Caster Gloves/Gloves of the Master Strategist

>>97847877
How is Pathfinder different to D&D?

>>97876630
Would that work? Minor Servitor needs to be non-magical metal, though I suppose you could enchant the weapon properties afterwards.

>>97878610
Yes you start with non-magical objects, then add the enchantment later. OR use an Effigy Crawling Gauntlet. OR a Crawling Claw. I wish there was more straight forward ways to create custom constructs

>>97869545
>Why are so many of them during the week?
As the other anons said, most adults have other higher priority things to do on the weekends.
I think I only ever played during a weekend with my current group one in the 4 years I've been with these guys.

>>97849846
I blame the autism so many gamers have.

>>97878608
Skills work differently. Base classes are completely different. CMB/CMD are a thing. Stacking bonuses is also different. Polymorph effects are also pretty different.
Philosophically, PF puts more emphasis on class archetypes than on Prestige Classes, I think.
That's off the top of my head.

>>97847877
Hey, is the prestige class compendium incomplete? I cannot find the Soulbow

There are a bunch of spells that deal back damage or have other effects against creatures that 'strike you'.
Based on previous advice here, I've ruled that this requires a creature to actually land a hit on you.
Thinking of changing it to 'land a hit vs your touch AC'
Fire shield would be most obvious of these. Shield of the Dawnflower from pf1 too.
Otherwise they seem too weak to me.
>they last rounds per caster level so they have to be cast mid combat, costing you an action
>they are generally quite expensive in spell level for the damage output
>they are visible and easily avoided, enemies can focus on your allies
>at the same time the damage isn't enough to dissuade beating down a squishy protected by this spell

most importantly they seem wasteful - tanks are already specced and equipped to have high AC and avoid hits. So this spell is aligned against the main purpose of a tank.
non-tanks should not be exposing themselves to attacks, so again a spell that only does anything when you are actually hurt, seems even more useless.

so what's your opinion of homebrew ruling?

ps. this spell category seems mostly designed for the NPC boss to wear when the party tries to gang up on him.
I was also thinking of a change to duration of 1 min / level, but every hit taken strips a full minute

>>97878608
big one that I've only started to appreciate later is streamlined experience gained.
Doesn't matter what your group level is, doesn't matter what the enemy's level or CR is. You always get the same exp, split between them.
3rd edition tried to discourage 'farming' of low level mobs by high level pcs, but imo that was trying to solve a nonexistent problem. Your DM shouldn't be feeding you exp like that.
That solution creates a different problem when you try to run games for solo play or very small groups because you get absolutely fucked for having fewer people in the calculations.

Recently came across this spell in dragon magazine (issue 300)
Corpsebond

>Necromancy [Evil], Level: Clr 6, Sor/Wiz 5, Components: V,S,M,Drug. Casting Time: 1 minute. Target: personal, Duration: 1 hour/level. ST: None, SR: no. This spell transfers flesh and bone from a corpse onto the caster's body, providing a sickly second skin that transfers damage done to her to the corpse. Only the most depraved spellcasters make use of this spell, as it requires the caster to engage in necrophilia. During the casting of the spell, the caster must copulate with a corpse of any size and shape.
>As the spell is cast, strips of tissue and shards of bone peel off the carcass to merge with the caster's body. The caster's skin thickens and develops scales and ridges of horn and bone that become infused with dark purple and brown energies. These vile energies provide excelling protection against negative energy. Against necromancy spells the caster gains a spell resistance of 10 + his caster level. In addition, all physical damage done to the caster while this spell is in effect is equally split between the caster and the bonded corpse. For the purposes of this spell, the corpse has 5 hit points per caster level.
>Damage done directly to the corpse is not transferred to the caster; the corpse takes all such damage. If the corpse is reduced to 0 hit points, made undead, or otherwise desroyed, the spell's effect ends. Inflict wounds spells can repair damage done to the corpse as if it was an undead creature; likewise, healing magic can damage the corpse as if it were an undead creature. Magical healing applied to the caster is not split between the two, but inflict wounds damage is. The distance between the caster and the corpse does not matter, as long as both are on the same plan.

adds a new meaning to a BBEG telling you
>I fucked your mother

>>97881673
Really tempted to use it in campaign for some big encounter.
evil guy can protect himself with it as he heads out to confront the PCs. Back in his lair, minion clerics can keep repairing the corpse with inflict wounds spells when it begins to take damage.
Add an invisible minion fanatic behind him with Shield Other and a cure wounds wand
Add a fire shield on him.
Weak to dispel, but if the PCs don't have that ready, the boss gets x4 hit points.

>players enter dungeon
>Fight once
>Take a total of, like, 5 damage between all of them
>They have two bards with cure light wounds and, like, 12 charges of cure light wounds in a wand
>They already declared they are abandoning the dungeon to "regroup" next session
I'm so done with this one encounter and run away schtick. They've been doing this every single dungeon trip, all the way to level 2-3. I think i'm going to kill them on the way out. just toss the entire dungeon's remaining stock of monsters at them until they die.

fuck this yellow chickenshit party.

>>97882667
Our group would 100% do that, if we could.
Time pressures are a bitch.
>Oh, we could go back and rest, but then X would happen and we would lose Y, and there's probably a bunch of motherfuckers on the way back now etc etc

>>97882710
Bro.
The dungeon had prisoners. They were told to save the prisoners and they left to do stuff in the overworld. The prisoners died, the monsters captured new prisoners. The players learned the monsters were going to use the prisoners to summon some evil thing. The players said "We can't go into the dungeon, we will die!" and they literally watched one of the players hire a bunch of NPCs and go save the prisoners' alone. THEY LITERALLY SAT THERE TO WATCH THIS GUY PLAY SOLO because "the dungeon is too dangerous".

So, the solo player managed to save some of the prisoners, but not stop the ritual. Afterwards, they all decided that they were going to go do stuff around in the overworld. This is while the dungeons is spewing smoke indicating the whatchamacalit's awakening. Their NPC friends asked them to come with them to slay whatever is in the dungeon. "the smoke means that the dungeon is too dangerous" so, they ignored their NPC friend's request to go to the dungeon with them. They went to the overworlkd to get killed by a griffon instead.

The game falls off due to schedules and now we are picking it up again on the request of the players for some reason. I didn't realize they enjoyed playing this game of doing nothing and watching someone else do stuff. In-game weeks after their NPC friends left for the dungeon, it has stopped smoking "it must be safe to go into the dungeon now". THAT MEANS THE BIG KAHUNA IS FULLY AWAKENED. LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE. And that catches up with the previous post. They fought some CR 1/4 monsters and took minimum damage, but they want to leave already. They are abandoning their "friends" and possibly the town next to the dungeon because of 5 damage.

>>97882811
...That is some *pathological* risk aversion, right there. And also horrible attention span. You probably should use more "ordinary" logistical time-pressures to beat in that scratch-damage is not an existential threat.

>>97882811
Holy fuck dude.

>>97882811
Oops, exits closed. At some point the Awakened evil pulled you all into some other plane/demiplane, or whatever feels appropriate

>>97882811
Where did you meet these people? Why can they find a playgroup and I can't? How did they show up for a session without being paralyzed with fear that a pencil or d4 would pierce their flesh and cause a lethal hemorrhage?

>>97882811
don't be shy about anvilicous hints
>Player: my nail broke and I want to go back
>DM: before you make that decision, just letting you know because this is like a DC 5 wisdom check / common understanding that your character would know:
> you just hit what is most likely the outer guard post in this dungeon. For now you have the element of surprise and initiative
>Within a few hours if not sooner someone is sure to check on it, raise the alarm and than whomever is inside is going to mobilize whatever forces they have in the vicinity to track you guys down
>so ooc, that means leaving now, you are in for a pretty tough skill challenge to outpace pursuit and if you fail those, well you are going to be pretty fucked
>maybe someone survives to let the town know kind of fucked
I've had exactly that kind of scenario here >>97862330
when players learned they were in a dragon's lair, they immediately thought to run
I had a DM npc clarify to them:
>the young, recently poisoned, weakened dragon doesn't want anyone to know its set up a lair here. You can either ambush it as it comes home from a hunt, or it will come home, see you killed its goblin minions smell your scent all over this cave and fly to hunt you down. Might mobilize nearby goblin tribes to help it.

in your case, looks like you are talking about some kind of cult summoning demons - easy motivation ploy.
>Soon as they notice anyone's been around them, they are going to scry on who it was, then immediately cast Planar Ally - sacrifice some of the treasure (that might have been yours) to launch CR+3 minor demons after you.
>we know because people who were known to stumble on this cult's lairs before have this tendency to get gored by random demons shortly after
Then if they are still chicken, you can proceed to deadly encounter - only one without any loot rewards.

>>97883486
Thanks for the advice. i'll see about laying out the info in a more obvious way before being rash.

>>97883662
Another way of thinking about it is that it's clear that right now your players think that character death is the only fail state, and don't understand that resources exist to be spent. You'll get spells back. You'll find more potions and scrolls. You'll earn more gold. If the players don't have goals in the world other than not dying, then they won't leverage anything in pursuit of a task. They need skin in the game.

Ring of Enduring Arcana vs Ring of Spell Battle for a buff based Cleric, which would you guys say is the more important buy?
Enduring Arcana seems both more generally useful and is cheaper too.
Also, god damn. There's a bunch of special materials you can make weapons and armors out of.
For example
>Hizagkuur is a pale, silvery gray metal that forever retains a fiery spark of its smelting fires; making it magically resistant to cold. Thus, armor made from hizagkuur grants its wearer cold resistance 2. Any weapon forged of hizagkuur deals +1 point of electricity damage and +1 point of fire damage each time it hits. This effect is cumulative with any other special abilities the weapon may possess Hizagkuur cannot be used in a magic item that uses cold effects, such as a frost or icy burst weapon.

>Hizagkuur weighs the same as steel, and it has a hardness of 10 and 30 hit points per inch of thickness. A hizagkuur weapon is treated as silver for the purpose of defeating damage reduction, but it takes no penalty on its damage roll.

>Market Price Modifier: Armor +2,000 gp; weapon +12,500 gp.
This is not incredibly powerful or anything, but I think it's pretty fucking cool.

>>97884064
The Ring of Spellbattle is far more useful.

You should look up some of the old material compilation threads if you like that stuff by the way. There's heaps of interesting materials that interact in fun ways too. Like Livewood being a target for Awaken. Or Aurorum being a material that's infinitely repairable

Is there any monster hivemind type creatures like Orcwort/wortlings but a lower CR?

I want an adventure about some cursed "thing" spitting out monsters to threaten a town

>>97884064
I would prefer Enduring Arcana if I played a cleric.
Passive all day buffs usually beat 1/day ability in my book.
Ring of Spell Battle is versatile but protects you once and only in 60ft radius.
Enduring Arcana protects you and and your entire party and your summoned monsters all day no matter how far away from they get.

>>97888549
There's various creature swarms at low CR but none of them would have the agency to split off and do their own thing

>>97888549
>>97889773
Some oozes can split. Something that could split then heal the "broodmother" ooze, maybe?
Could even be some sort of trap gone awry.

>>97889773
>>97889839
I don't want a swarm. An 9rcwprt is a tree that grows weird fruit which becomes 9rc-like monsters, who go out & bring back victims to feed the tree. I want something with that sort of set up but more manageable than CR20

>>97890139
How did you type orc as 9rc twice in a sentence where you used "o" correctly multiple other times? Also if you like that concept you can just make a CR 5 version of it pretty easily by making shittier spawn and a weaker tree, seems simple enough.

>>97890221
I have arthritis/degeneration in my hands so sometimes my thumb just moves funny. I'm also mobile posting.

>>97881385
blease respond

>>97881533
I am entirely willing to say land a hit against touch AC.

HOWEVER on the other end offensive magic charging a weapon like ...hexblade? Ordained Champ etc should also go off on touch AC.

>>97893299
>>97881533
And then you'd end up getting into the question of Flaming weapons and the like, should those also hit on touch AC?

>>97881562
That does punish crafting. Unless that's entirely different.

>>97893305
PF doesn't use XP for crafting or spell components. Doesn't use XP loss for Raise Dead etc either.

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466 KB JPG

Why is dexterity bonus counted into AC? It's non-intuitive, ain't it? Dexterity represents your ability to dodge a blow, why should it come into play once you get hit?

>>97894538
Mechanically, Touch AC is for when mere contact is required, and Dexterity does in fact apply to it. Implicitly, attacks even against "standard" AC who's attack rolls do not pass Touch AC do not make contact with their target. Yes, it's a bit silly of terminology, but the franchise is stuck with it from this bit of mechanics coming out of naval wargaming.

At least it isn't counting down into the negatives anymore.

>>97894538
>once you get hit
AC is a funny abstraction because it can mean a bunch of things, including you managing to avoid a hit completely by dodging (dex score, dodge bonus to AC, divine intervention (sacred bonus to AC?), and even luck (luck bonus to AC).

>>97894882
>Implicitly, attacks even against "standard" AC who's attack rolls do not pass Touch AC do not make contact with their target.
I don't know if that's a rule somewhere, but I like to imagine that the percentage of the different kinds of AC to the total AC describe the chance that a certain kind of interaction happened such as the shield blocking the blow, the attack getting deflected by the magical barrier from your ring, etc.

What's a good unusual creature I can use for a massive horde that's rampaging across the countryside? I'm bored of orcs, goblins, zombies, monstrous humanoids, etc. Preferably something that isn't just a wild animal.

>>97895435
Modrons. They got a bit lost

>>97891647
>prestige class compendium
why don't you just look it up in Complete Psionic or online srds?

>>97895435
use a bunch of wild fey. Fairy realm is having some seriously wild party and as it moves across the First World, it keeps popping small mortals unto the material world.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/fey/baccae/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/fey/quickling/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/fey/redcap/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/fey/satyr/

these can thematically group up together. benefit with fey is that since they invade from the First World / Faerie realm or whatever you local world building has, the horde can be plausibly as massive as needed, yet also plausible arrive in piece-meal as DM needs it.

>>97896101
I did, but having them all in compendiums is handier

I just want to say, from the bottom of my heart, thank you all for still keeping this alive. I've been in and out of playing tabletops for years at a time over the past 3 decades and the only parts of my life I can stand is when I have a group, even with all the arguments. It's been a solid handful of years now since I've played and with life being so shit I find myself constantly wanting a 3.x group.

>>97899511
As the OP for the vast majority of the threads the past several years, believe me that I keep this going out of that same love and desperation. I haven't had any TTRPG campaign last more than 2-3 sessions in a decade, and chatting here about rules and ideas keeps the spark alive. Plus, for 3.5 in particular, I won't delude myself and pretend like the rules interactions and the builds aren't just as much if not more of the system's allure than the actual act of play. It's a fun little puzzlebox.

>>97899572
You're doing God's work, anon. Now it's time for me to spend a week obsessing over finding a group only to end up just considering suicide again

>>97899572
Damn man, props, and hope you find someone soon

>>97895435
I used Kythons once. Treated them as the Zerg/Tyranids.

>>97895435
I'm a fan of displacer beasts but a full stampede of those would be a bit much.

>>97895435
Wyverns.
Have one of them be the
>11-21 HD (Gargantuan)
variant.

>>97899572
I miss puzzlebox game design. I really dont give a shit about balance, give me fiddly bits to mix

>>97895435
Unironically Moonrat conspiracy

>>97901127
With the OSR movement and the general popularity of roguelikes the past decade I'm surprised we haven't seen a system with extremely high lethality but rapid advancement where the emphasis is placed on build variety. Obviously no one can build a breadth of content on par with Wizards+/OGL/Dragon Magazine/20 years of homebrew by themselves, and so they'll always be playing catchup to 3.5, but I feel like there have to at least be a couple freaks who are excited to hear "you rolled an elf with 16 dex and 6 con, here's 200 feats, 300 items, and 400 spells to try and unfuck your situation"

>>97895435
Incursion from the Elemental Plane of Earth
Earth elementals, Xorn, Dune Stalkers, earth-aligned Mephits, Crysmals, Chaggrin, Gulgar, any other earthy/rocky guys you like the look of.

>>97896120
Sounds like some Wild Hunt shenanigans.