>>97880077
Aside from not literally or even figuratively everyone hating Pathfinder 2, what you posted doesn't seem to be an example of any of the major problems of the game (which it definitely has).

>what if we balanced 3.x by making it even more autistic

>>97880077
Could you explain the issue anon?

>>97880077
What's the problem?

>>97880077
>This has been making a buzz recently...
FOR WHAT FUCKING REASON?!
Genuinely what am I supposed to be able to infer from this screenshot of a feat with no context?

>>97880115
>>97880204
>>97880215
>>97880225
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1sid743/for_the_fallen_is_the_one_feat_with_the_most/

>>97880077
That gives you a movement and an attack for one action after you've made an attack?

>>97880274
So it's a meh to bad feat with way too much flavour text.
There are many more important reasons to hate PF2.

>>97880321
After you've made an attack, you can take a move and then attack. In that order.
Since you've already made an attack, this means you're at a penalty on this next attack already, which is not great.

>>97880332
That does sound incredible situational for what I'm assuming is a very limited character resource (a feat).

>>97880321
>movement
No, it's just a Step.

>>97880352
Like a 5ft step in D&D 3.5? That's even more situational then.
Yeah, sounds like a bad feat.

>>97880349
It's not just that it takes a feat, it's a "Dedication" feat which is PF2e equivalent of multiclassing, which is even more limited than a feat.
And apparently there's a better version of that feat that is available as a normal feat and not a dedication feat.

>>97880349
>>97880356
It's in the same book as some cracked ass feats like one that gives autocrits on Grapples which shits all over combat.

>>97880321
>>97880353
It's actually a very rare ability in 3e, the only class I can think of that gives you a free movement is Frenzied Berserker during a cleave. Any RPG fan will tell you that any ability that gives you extra/better movement will be among the most powerful abilities in the game.

>>97880425
>RPG
SRPG*

File: durr2.jpg (68.1 KB)

68.1 KB JPG

>>97880077
>no one likes D&D 4e because it is an analog MMO
>pozzo thinks what they should do with their 3.5 clone is give their audience of people who want 3.5 and not 4e another analog MMO

>>97880446
point to me a single mmo that plays like pf2e

>>97880454
play: I fucked your mother raw while you engagement farmed on 4chan.

>>97880356
Skirmish Strike is what you're thinking of I believe. Where it basically means you can, as one action, step and strike or strike and step. Meaning you're allowed to do it in any order you want now. But that's a Ranger/Rogue flourish at level 6, whereas this is level 4.

I'd still just wait the two levels. PF2e is very much frontloaded for good feats and a lot of the mid level ones are kinda bad.

>>97880454
They can't. They just see use restrictions on things that aren't on a long rest and think it's an MMO.

>>97880454
chess

>>97880204
>>97880215
>>97880225
It's kind of insane you didn't context clue in that the flavour text talking about heroes dying trying to ascend into gods hardly matches with the "step and attack" mechanical effect. Are you all Indian?

>>97880500
I auto skip flavor text on spells.

>>97880494
I wish pf2e combat was as good as chess.

>>97880454
But but but... SHIELD BASH!

>>97880500
I'm pretty sure that everyone picked up on that, anon. It's just that exaggerated flavor text is such a minor problem that it doesn't really OP's hyperbolic "is this why everyone hates PF2?!"

>>97880516
I can't believe 3rd edition is an MMO

>>97880533
I mean it literally is.
>In-depth crafting system
>Enemies have levels and endless scaling
>Metric fuckton of classes
>Official respec rules
>Damn near everything is codified in the rules
>Multiple splatbooks and expansions
>Official World of Warcraft splatbook
>Official modding API (SRD)
>The D&D MMO takes its design philosophy directly from 3e
>Note, there is no 4e-based MMO or videogame, your counter-example is D&D in name only
3e is more of a videogame than any tabletop game ever released.

>>97880570
What the fuck is Neverwinter MMO based on genius

>>97880602
NTA but the neverwinter MMO has very little 4e in it aside from the themes.
Dungeons and Dragons online on the other hand, was pretty faithful to 3.5e for a good while, then they started hybridizing it with ideas from 4e.
It's pretty a fun game too, highly recommended.

>>97880570
No, it literally isn't.
You're a retard who doesn't know anything about video games if you really think that.

>>97880077
I hate Pathfinder 2e because every other race is aggressively pidgeon-holed into being a reskinned human mechanically, even if it makes no sense.

>>97880822
This is what really annoys the shit out of me in tabletop, and always has. The only truly standout races I can think of are dromites and thri-kreen.

>description: oh man you're such a cool and baddass and deep
>effect: move and attack
lmao

>>97882818
It's Step, not Stride.

>>97880356
No it is not a Dedication Feat. This is a feat from an archetype you are already dedicated to.

>>97880425
> Any RPG fan will tell you that any ability that gives you extra/better movement will be among the most powerful abilities in the game.
This is correct, even in PF2e. The big problems are the order of operations (you HAVE to Step FIRST, you can't attack then step) and the Flourish and Press tags.
>Flourish -- only one Flourish action is allowed
>Press -- can only be done after any other attack action

So it IS situational, but not for the reasons this thread is complaining about. It is a cheaper and more accessible than its equivalents, but notably weaker. There are uses for it like with Reach users being able to skirmish some more.

Again, the biggest problem is the fluff. Not only it is 4 sentences (one of the longest bits of non-mechanical lore in any feat), but it is also highly related to the Starstone Trial and how lethal it is. Imagine getting a boost when your friend bites the dust and the only thing you can do with it is dance in place. It feels like the text version of the Sword Art Online Abridged joke where the MC makes up bullshit and gives a loving soliloquoy about trash he finds on the street just to fuck with people in earshot.

>>97882909
>There are uses for it like with Reach users being able to skirmish some more.
Like what? You're already in position.

>>97882967
If you have reach you can step back to force the opponent to move to reach you

>>97883373
But you could have done that when you first moved and attacked?

>>97883393
The idea is that it allows you to get out of close range without using an action.
>enemy closes in (taking an aoo) and attacks
>you attack, attack, attack and then step
Or
>attack, attack, step, move back even more.

>>97883819
For the Fallen! is Step and then Strike...

>>97883930
no no he's right, his autism is preventing him from explaining himself clearly.
your enemy moves close to you and attacks you, on your turn you attack him back and then use for the fallen to step back and attack it again, so it will have to expend an action to move again on its next turn. this is probably the only circumstance where this feat is useless (besides some extremely contrived and rare cases).

>>97884705
>where this feat is useless
*useful fuck...

>>97884705
No lvl 4 enemies consistently hit on -10 anyways, using an action to step and attacking twice is mostly the same as attacking three times. E.g. if you normally hit on an 11 you lose like 6% of expected damage, more for a better attacker obviously. So the action tax is really only relevant for enemies that want to close in melee and have no other use for their actions besides attacking.
That still seems pretty narrow.
>>97880077
It's a splatbook, those were always terrible. Run core plus whatever campaign your game is set in. PF2 has other problems, but that feat is easily filtered.

>>97884705
Or it can just.. switch targets to one of the other melee combatants. All you are doing is offloading damage onto someone else. If you got a guardian then that is just synergizing builds in a tactics game. If you don't, you are really just making the enemy play more optimally by not splitting its damage between multiple targets.

>>97884946
you can be the tank yourself and use that feat you dummy
every melee martial having a plan to retreat efficiently to force the enemy to spend actions IS optimal
still, you are right in that this feat isn't very good and even its optimal use case isn't really that great

>>97880077
I don't hate Pathfinder 2e, I just have no interest in playing it, because it has a lot of the same issues D&D has, and I'd have to rewrite most, if not all, of the rules to get the kind of game I want.

>>97880446
>>97880446
>3.5 was an analog MMO, the community just ignored about half the rules and banned any book where it was too obvious you'd be ignoring core rules.

>>97880446
Considering Paizo at PF1's peak was making about $14m a year and right now conservative estimates put them making somewhere north of $25m a year I'd say they made the right decision.

>>97880533
>>97880570
There were people comparing it to Diablo when it came out, with how it made everything focus on builds, items, increasing stats, etc.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

>>97896253
They were right to do so. 3e is not D&D and the only reason people pretend it is is because most of the actual audience aged out, died, or stopped engaging beyond their own closed social circles.