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Snivy only got away with it because of the delulu that is the "Rule of Cool".

>>59182089
>"Rule of Cool".
Only uncool people complain about this

>>59182081
Snivy gets away with being a shitmon because it isn't a shillmon like Shitorita or has a foul, transcoded, dogshit design like Shitorita.

>>59182089
so he's like treeko then

>>59182094
>transcoded
Conservacucks only hate trannies because it's less unmolested children that can be diddled in the name of God as opposed to being diddled in the name of science/nature/whatever.

>>59182081
Snivy is real fucking bad but it's amazing what you can do in a region that isn't front loading every gym grass types are useless at. Snivy can Glare and be a Coil / Leaf Blade stat stick which is far better than using Body Slam and Reflect or whatever Chicorita does

>>59182081
>be chikorita but worse in every single ways
Serperior gets Leech Seed, Coil and Growth.
It is significantly better than Meganium for in-game runs.

>>59182109
Conservatives also perform transgender operations on their own children all the time. It’s called circumcision

>>59182094
>the first ever starter with an artificial popularity busted ability
>not a shillmon
serperior was the original "sabotage the other two to make tpc favorite look better" before greninja came around.

>>59182120
>>59182114
It also was OU for a while after it got contrary

>politics less than 8 posts in
And here, we can see Yuri Bezmenov's warning about the USSR's "active measures" come true almost immediately.

>>59182094
>Shillmon
this word hasn’t had a meaning since legends detractors started spamming it 24/7

>>59182114
>Snivy is real fucking bad but it's amazing what you can do in a region that isn't front loading every gym grass types are useless at
the first gym is a fire type anon

Serp is perfectly fine in game since BW isn't filled to the gills with poison rocket using rocket goons, that being said it does have a really limited moveset and you're only gonna be using grass and normal moves on it.

>>59182094
How is it trans-coded? It's a sauropod.
The only people who would think it's trans are trannies themselves.

>>59182146
Oh gosh, I'd better pick Oshawot to counter this fire gym!

The worst in-game grass-type is Treecko in Ruby, easily.
Chikorita can get by on sheer bulk and Grass+Normal moves. Snivy is an upgraded version of that.
Treecko is just ass against the entire mid-game in Ruby and doesn't even support the team like other grass-types to make up for it.

>>59182162
Eh, I used a Camerupt recently and I can tell you getting 2HKO by every stray neutral grass move sucks. I don't think Team Magma is a significant factor when it comes to which starter is the best

>>59182081
>>be chikorita but worse in every single ways

Wrong, they have different roles.

>>59182170
It is still really bad in Sapphire, Ruby just makes things that little bit worse.
Numel, Koffing and Zubat all cause issues for the Treecko line, Sapphire at least removes one of them.
Team Magma is also just part of it, the gyms also aren't playing nice with the Treecko line, and it isn't as fat as the Snivy and Chikorita lines are in their games so it struggles more.

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Funny how gamefreak is actively gatekeeping serperior despite what the fandom really thinks about it

>>59182162
sorry sweety, but treeko got a mega before ZA so you’re not allowed to call it a shitmon

>retards are still pretending Snivy is bad

>>59182199
It didn't get regionally replaced unlike 50% of the gen 5 dex so clearly someone at GF care about it

>>59182199
Everyone knows serp is the most popular, and pre-HSamurott, it was the best off competitively as well. It'll get a mega eventually, there's no real rush.
I don't know why people are trying to spin legends starters as anything but GF throwing a bone to Pokemon who got no support, Chiko and Totodile were left in the dust competitively for years until ZA, same with Emboar, Snivy was the only one who could stand on its own two feet without support thanks to Contrary.

>>59182081
I'd rather use Serperior and spam Leaf Storm than ever touch Mega Meganium

I'm never calling it Snivy.

It is Smugleaf. Got it memorized?

>>59182209
Yeah its going to get a fuckibg absurdly busted GMax form in Legends Galar

>>59182210
>implying they're gonna cuck the only unova starter that matter with a humiliation ritual mega from za and up
best girl is getting a meta centralizing kinomax form that turn her into the world serpent in legends gallar. cry about it kalostroon

>>59182081
Snivy is based and HER, YEA HER, hidden ability is based so of course I hacked it in

>>59182199
>Mightyena breeched the top 30
Furchads WON

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>>59182094
chikochad causing just as much butthurt as ever i see

>>59182081
>it's not a ugly snowman
>it's not a literal fat pig
yea, I'm picking this baddie

>>59182162
>The worst in-game grass-type is Treecko in Ruby, easily.

I think its one of the better choices honestly. Treecko beats the first gym which is good enough. Your next major wall in the game is Brendan/May battle by cycling road. If you start with Mudkip then Brendan/Mays Grovyle is deadly and the game doesnt really give you fire options yet. With Treecko you are fighting their Combusken and the game does give you a few water Pokemon at this point. After this point your starter selection doesnt matter as much since theres a water fire grass accessible before the 4th gym. Even then you hardly ever need fire coverage in Hoenn.

>>59182210
> well. It'll get a mega eventually, there's no real rush.
If a pregen 7 Pokémon doesn’t have a mega by know there’s no reason to assume it would ever get one
>I don't know why people are trying to spin legends starters as anything but GF throwing a bone to Pokemon who got no support
The PLA starters technically got the opposite of support. They got forms basically make the orignal have no reason to exist since regionals don’t buff the original form

>>59182089
Fpbp. Treecko, Snivy, and Rowlet are much worse for their main campaigns than Chikorita is, but their evos are cooler so most people overlook how bad they are.

>>59182146
>>59182114
>1st gym always beats your starter
>3rd gym is bug
>4th is running a pair of flying types with aerial ace
>6th is flying
>7th is ice, but unlike GSC they aren’t all weak to grass
>8th is dragon and running exclusively phasers, which fucks with everything Serperior wants to do
Snivy has a stronger claim to the region victim problem than Chikorita does. I’ve used both, and at least Chikorita gets a screen move and poison in a relatively low powered region. Snivy is a bum clicking leech seed and setting up for several turns to hit harder than a wet noodle in the dex where Gamefreak decided to powercreep attack stats specifically. Meganium quite literally hits harder with SD + body slam than Serperior with coil + slam obviously, and for KANTOOOOOO you can pick up EQ on Meganium to give it some actual coverage.

Unova starters also have the issue of being mostly powercrept by random wild mobs, and there’s nothing Snivy particularly does well over Petlil.

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>>59182153
A male Meganium maybe?
Even then that's a massive stretch because for an IRL example there's quite a few species of birds where the males are flamboyant as fuck such as peafowl.

>>59182089
Gen alpha being brainwashed into thinking cool things are le bad actually is the funniest shit ever. You guys are set up to be so terminally cringe that even the zoomiest of zoomers will seem based

>>59182094
as a troon, i have to inform you that the snivy line is in fact transcoded. just ftm

>>59182133
This is the real reason behind snivy (and to a lesser extent, Decidueye) getting largely ignored while Meganium is treated as hot dogshit.
Smogon back between 2008-2012 decided how viable everyone thinks every pokemon that was out at that time is, permanently.

>>59182430
Snivy is bar none the worst starter to use in the main story across 9 gens. I have no idea why Gamefreak decided to balance what should be a solid ingame mon around an ability it wouldn’t even get until an optional event distribution a gen later.

>>59182508
??? Leaf Blade is a great move and Unova is not aggrssive to grass types like Jhoto is. I exclusively use Snivy in all my Gen 5 playthroughs and have no issue. I don't know why you're typing like Serperior would even get access to Leaf Storm for contrary at any point during a normal run anyway.

>>59182430
>at least Chikorita gets a screen move and poison in a relatively low powered region. Snivy is a bum clicking leech seed
A. Leech Seed is much better than Poison
B. Both get screens, and screens are more helpful in Unova because mons will be hitting you harder - as you noted.
>Meganium quite literally hits harder with SD + body slam than Serperior with coil + slam
Body Slam is level 46 in HGSS, both of these starters are running max power Return by that time.
Swords Dance is also not in Meganium's GSC moveset if you run it as a starter, so earlier Body Slam is not a point there.
I'll give you HGSS Swords Dance provides Meganium more oomph but only with quite a bit of Voltorb Flip if you want it at a reasonable time. But if we go with that, then you have PTW Swords Dance for Serperior in BW2.
>Unova starters also have the issue of being mostly powercrept by random wild mobs, and there’s nothing Snivy particularly does well over Petlil.
Petilil is actually fairly broken and runs over things it should lose to with Quiver Dance and Giga Drain alone.
That being said, you could easily argue Chikorita is worse in Johto than Oddish is.
Both these mons are similar - they outbulk things and beat them without fancy effective moves, or they act as team support. But Serperior is better at its job. It is a faster screener in a stronger region, Leech Seed is leagues better than poison on a bulk mon, and it has a better STAB to Spam in Leaf Blade on a setup moveset. Swords Dance is not buffing a good grass move in HGSS.

>>59182508
>Snivy is bar none the worst starter to use in the main story across 9 gens.
Snivy is flatly better than Gen 2 Chikorita, it isn't even particularly close.
Gen 4 Chikorita is much more comparable but still worse than Snivy.
Treecko and Rowlett are worse than both by a mile.

>>59182081
Snivy is way cooler

>>59182211
What stage of grief is this?

ladies, ladies
why are you arguing with eachother when Decidueye is a shitty SFMA in a region where everyone and their mother is carrying moves that oneshot it

>>59182553
Snivy is worse than all Chikorita variants. It literally does nothing. At least Gen 2 Chikorita benefits from badge boosts and Gen 4 Chikorita gets swords dance.

>>59182114
No one’s breeding Glare onto Snivy for in game lmao

>>59182430
Treecko’s fine if you play Sapphire. It’s better off than the others.

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>>59182589
>tfw replaced my decidueye with tsareena

>>59182081
I don't like Snivy because it sheds off its limbs and becomes a fucking worm snake thing when it evolves.
Emboar is cooler because he is a brutal boar with huge claws.
Samurott is alright. He would be a lot cooler if Emboar wasn't there though.

>>59182589
>nobody is talking about Decidueye despite anon bringing it up unprompted for the third time
Sad!

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>>59182635
what the fuck are you talking about

>>59182493
>>59182589
>>59182430
>>59182553
Decidueye/Rowlet keeps being brought up and not a single person replies to the Decidueye statement. Nobody gives a shit that the ghost owl is bad in Sun and Moon

>>59182648
>>59182638
fug

>>59182648
oh no a grass starter being bad is being brought up in a thread about grass starters being bad get a fucking grip man

>>59182655
Fuck me for nooticing I guess

>>59182147
They did this to Lilligant and Maractus too. I don't know what Masuda had against girly mono-grass Pokemon. Whimsicott got through lucky.

>>59182667
it's just a grass type thing in general, whimsicott gets other tools because of its associations with wind and pranks
nothing to do with "muh girly" or whatever

>>59182537
>A. Leech Seed is much better than Poison
Not particularly, no. Again, Unova has a higher "power level" than Johto, so leech seed is worthless in a region based mostly around one-taps.
>B. Both get screens, and screens are more helpful in Unova because mons will be hitting you harder - as you noted.
They're more helpful in Johto, still; BW's exp system and Servine's higher evo level sort of ensures it won't get much relevant mileage out of setting up screens for itself outside of Clay's Excadrill. You spend 30,000 on the reflect TM in the town where Emolga/Sigilyph outspeed you and Darumaka still 1 shots you through the buff. It doesn't "break even" as a fast screen setter until about after Skyla or so (unless you were grinding), but then the next gym spams frost breath which ignores screens. It's just not an optimized screen setter for its region, to the point that you're kinda setting yourself up for failure by running it that way.
>Body Slam is level 46 in HGSS, both of these starters are running max power Return by that time.
Swords Dance is also not in Meganium's GSC moveset if you run it as a starter, so earlier Body Slam is not a point there.
Bayleef/Meganium do get Headbutt and Strength earlier too, which still outdamages anything the Snivy line is throwing out by then.
>That being said, you could easily argue Chikorita is worse in Johto than Oddish is.
This isn't remotely comparable at all. Oddish's grass stab (mega drain btw) and healing spell don't show up until level 23 and 41 respectively, and you're stuck babying it as Gloom until the high levels if you want the latter. Meganium also gets petal dance in the 30s, and gets normal phys moves and EQ to capitalize off of SD, while Vileplume doesn't get it until the 50s and learns almost nothing to pair with the setup move. It's incredibly disingenuous to equate it to Lilligant mogging the Snivy line as early as level 28 with QD/Sleep Powder/Giga Drain, a combination that solos the game from then

>>59182680
if you have to type all this out to explain why serperior is aekshually le bad it might be time to accept that serperior is aekshually le good

>>59182581
I don't like Mega Meganium, simple

>>59182606
Emboar looks retarded, should have stayed on all fours

>>59182667
Grassmons in general get fucked by having no coverage, unlike every water pokemon under the sun that gets ice beam, you can count the grassmons that get earth power on one hand it feels like. it's their downside for being pretty good utility mons with weird resistances, it's by design but it sucks.

>>59182731
Your face looks retarded.
I should rip it off your head.

>>59182758
Emboar not gonna fuck you lil bro

>>59182680
>You spend 30,000 on the reflect TM in the town where Emolga/Sigilyph outspeed you and Darumaka still 1 shots you through the buff.
Darumaka with 31 IVs in every stat, Servine with no IVs at all, with Screen up and Hustle:
78.4 - 93.8%
With Eviolite on Servine:
52.3 - 64.6%
Gotta love how you had to bring out one of the strongest mons as well, Darumaka is exceptional.
By the way, Servine lives Darmanitan's Fire Punch as well:
61.5 - 73.8%
Screens matter more when power levels are higher.

>>59182680
>Not particularly, no.
Yes, absolutely.
>Again, Unova has a higher "power level" than Johto, so leech seed is worthless in a region based mostly around one-taps.
No, the higher power level means Leech Seed on a bulky mon is stronger than usual, and it helps a potential teammate as well, especially behind screens.
>They're more helpful in Johto, still (etc.)
Already addressed Darumaka.
Even outside that, setting the screen fast to help the team is still better in BW than screening in HGSS.
>It's just not an optimized screen setter for its region (etc.)
It can set screens and survive a hit from basically anything in the region thanks to great speed. Even Darmanitan, as seen above. It is the better screener between the two easily.
>Bayleef/Meganium do get Headbutt and Strength earlier too, which still outdamages anything the Snivy line is throwing out by then.
Return is going to be at least on par with Headbutt at this point, probably stronger.
>This isn't remotely comparable at all
Good thing I'm not comparing the Oddish line to the Lilligant one then, I'm simply saying Meganium is not necessarily beating the random mobs.
>Oddish's grass stab (mega drain btw)
>stuck babying it as Gloom until the high levels if you want the latter.
Gloom will evolve at 23, the moment you get Mega Drain. Also Sleep Powder and Stun Spore.
>Meganium also gets petal dance in the 30s, and gets normal phys moves and EQ to capitalize off of SD
Oddish line just runs Return, which beats Body Slam and Headbutt. Drain Punch is just fine.
>It's incredibly disingenuous to equate it to Lilligant mogging the Snivy line as early as level 28 with QD/Sleep Powder/Giga Drain, a combination that solos the game from then
It is also incredibly disingenous to treat Lilligant as your average "random mob" when it mogs 95% of all mons in BW and straight up does not care about typing.
Reminder that I don't think Meganium is bad at all. But it is worse than Serperior.

>grasskek eating eachother alive over which of their favourite shitmon is the least shit as if grass isn't always the worst starter choice in all regions outside of paldea

>>59183082
Charmander is dogshit bro

I like birb and snake, I like flower too, I always reset for a girl too because meganium looks like a cute girl

>>59182081
Snivy got away with it because Unova's nicer to grass types and it has bigger movepools and a much more forgiving TM system. Gens 1-4 always had shit level-up movesets that gradually got better in each successive game, gen 5 is when you don't have to hold on to TMs like treasures but toss them around like candy. Chikorita doesn't learn shit to cope with every gym being a bad matchup unless you buy and use limited TMs while Snivy starts with Growth and then becomes a Coil merchant with leech seed and giga drain. And unlike Meganium, Serperior is mostly going first with only a little less bulk than the green dinosaur. But both get giga-mogged by the other starter options.

>>59183117
nuh uh

>>59183214
>But both get giga-mogged by the other starter options.
well duh, they're grass type

>>59182752
Grass also gets fucked by its defensive profile.
While grass' resistances are handy for multiplayer, it has some of the worst weaknesses and resistances a type can have for single player. Fire has the inverse case, where while its defensive typing is pretty bad for competitive, it has a stupidly good spread of resistances for single player, and is one of the best defensive types in the game period in that context.