>>3925314
Kingmaker is doo doo with some fun characters like harrim
Wrath of the Righteous is cool with really annoying characters

>>3925315
Act 4 is cool, suuurrree

>>3925314
the games are buffslop. utter garbage.

The series sucks:
-Bloated mess of classes that are barely different from each other.
-Trash encounter upon trash encounter.
-The non combat systems are pure boredom.
-The games are practically a buffing simulator
-Story is very boring and the writing is terrible

>>3925321
Can buffe be redeemed? Pillars have them be active for like 10 seconds, barely worth casting. Maybe combine with one or two bad effects?

>>3925322
>-Bloated mess of classes that are barely different from each other
Finally some anon understands this.
>unfair difficult spikes, like that skinned giant
>story and pacing are all over the place
>woke
>nothing is fun past act 3

>>3925321

You don´t need the buffs on normal unless your builds are shit or you are fighting one of those playful shadow things.

>>3925314

They are pre occupied at the moment making a Expanse game which, at this point, could be their big break into the mainstream or become a Mass Effect clone and go unnoticed.

Money says that if that goes well they´ll just leave fantasy to Larian and focus on becoming the high budget sci fi RPG brand now that both Bioware and Bethesda have folded. While i don´t think Owlcat is inferior to Larian in any way the truth is BG3 made Larian insanely popular so competing with them right now seems ill advised. Furthermore it seems the new Fable game will take over Dragon Age market share so things may be too crowded right now.

>>3925366
>They are pre occupied at the moment making a Expanse game which, at this point, could be their big break into the mainstream
No one's going to play it except Expanse fans, and are there really that many Expanse fans?

>>3925314
>So, when will Owlcat deliver a third game?
If they do it'll be 2nd edition because of the OGL fallout
which is good because it is the superior system

>>3925366
>sci fi RPG
They are woke slavskis, they will use expanse as stepping stone to bigger brands, rings of time and whatnot. You don't have any business knowledge, fantasising about owlcucks dreaming of sci fi, lol. They will do the same things they did up to date, grasp for the next bigger thing they can themselves prostitute to.
>anon thinks owlcucks have a strategy, kek'd

>>3925378
Rogue Trader isn't woke, I suspect the wokeshit in the Pathfinder games was pushed by Paizo.

>>3925407
I agree with this a lot. That being said WOTR has one of my favorite zones (Alushinyrra) I ever experienced in a CRPG.

>>3925423
Funny, I hated it so much. My second playthrough I dropped the game there because I couldn’t bear to do it again

>>3925322
>>3925332
You don't get it. The entire point is to put together a character by dipping into class levels to get the good shit you want out of them. This doesn't really appeal to most people because it requires vast familiarity with the ruleset and classes.

>>3925439
>The entire point is to put together a character by dipping into class levels to get the good shit you want out of them.
Scrub take, single-classing full casters is almost always better.

>>3925405
Paizo said no. Might be they did, idk.
>rt ain't woke
Huh! Shame I dislike warhammer

>>3925439
I doubt that's the goal in the tt. The fights there are easy af. Pc pf1e has bloated enemy stats.

>>3925439
>The entire point is to put together a character by dipping into class levels to get the good shit you want out of them.
Dips are for faggots. Pure class or GTFO.

>>3925510
Depends, magus is fucking gay. Fighter/wizard is classic.

>>3925862
Magus are one of the best classes in the game, especially Sword Saint and Arcane Rider

Not super familiar with the Pathfinder setting, but both games felt like a chore to play and weren't very interesting, so I didn't get very far.

Their Rogue Trader game though was actively awful and really showed that they had no clue about the RT pen&paper game and know little about Warhammer.

>>3925366
>competing with Larian

Nigger, they release one game every 4-5 years. It's not some saturated market.

>>3925314
Only with Aeon and Demon do you actually feel, throughout their entire storylines, that you are actually changing into a different entity. Unfortunately with Demon you have to keep it mostly hidden until Act 4, so Aeon is the only path in the game that serves its intended narrative function.

>>3925864
A strong class does not equal a straight man's choice, faggot.

>>3925862
>magus is fucking gay

lmao

>>3925949
>>3925862
Is Magus the only class where literally everyone plays one of the archetypes, but never vanilla?

>>3926706
I like level 20 vanilla paladin.

>>3925314
It suffers the same issue that Pillars of Eternity does. Dead, boring maps. Either the maps are tiny with nothing on them, meant for a single encounter, or have a tiny cave with an encounter inside; both of which are often recycled with small variations.
Larger maps are few.
Cities/human-garbage hubs are a mess, as such things always are.
NPCs yap way too fucking much and overshare and assume you give the slightest of shit.
Companions are repugnant, and the only saving grace of the game is that you have the option to throw them out entirely and hire your own companions that are silent, won't yap during exploration about fucking annoying irrelevant shit with obnoxious turboestrogen voice acting

why is sneak attack so broken in this game, I'm getting wrecked

>>3926915
>the only saving grace of the game is that you have the option to throw them out entirely and hire your own companions that are silent
Many such cases

>>3925314
>So, when will Owlcat deliver a third game?
They already said they cut ties with Paizo, so never. They've been working on WH40k games. Finished Rogue Trader and are now onto Dark Heresy.

>>3925883
>Their Rogue Trader game though was actively awful
I disagree in every regard; I felt it was the best of their work so far. No stage felt boring and I played it through in one smooth playthrough.

>>3927866
>They already said they cut ties with Paizo
That's what they actually said? With seemingly that level of finality?
I'd love to see them make a warhammer fantasy game.

>>3925314
Owlcat cannot make a third Pathfinder game until the company that owns the IP licenses them to do so. Which is unlikely to happen now that they're trying to make 2nd edition into their flagship... which it is utterly failing to be, because it's a shitty system.
Why won't Paizo and their IP-management company license 1st edition? Because Hasbro/WotC is leaning on the OGL which is what covers 1st edition.
So. What would need to happen? Hasbro / WotC would have to relax on the OGL (they never will, becuase this is a key legal channel by which to attack their only competitor in the tabletop RPG space). Then Paizo would have to relent on their attempt to make 2nd edition Pathfinder into their flagship (they never will, because PF1e is controlled by the OGL, and it would be fucking stupid to make themselves vulnerable to legal attack removing their flagship from their control). And then Owlcat would need to be open to and willing and ready to make a game by licensing it before Hasbro threatens the OGL again (they never will, because it'd be stupid to invest millions of dollars to make a game on a license that could be yanked at any moment).
A third PF1e Owlcat game will never be made. Ever. Fucking EVER.

Don't be angry with Owlcat or Paizo about it. It's entirely Hasbro and WotC being complete shitdicks over it. If you give WotC or Hasbro even a penny, you're worse than any nazi pedophile. Objectively.

>>3925321
Appending "-slop" to whatever doesn't make you sound authoritative. It just makes you sound like a retarded child with a limited vocabulary. Which is ok in this case I guess because that's exactly what you are, but you need to be quiet. Adults are talking.
>>3925325
There isn't anything that needs to be redeemed. The design failures of Pillars are irrelevant here. This is a different game, you know.
>>3925366
>You don´t need the buffs on normal unless your builds are shit or you are fighting one of those playful shadow things.
You don't need buffs on most harder difficulty settings, either, for that reason. It's PF1e. Buffs exist so that inexperienced players can make up for not knowing much about the system through raw numbers. For experienced players, buffs are irrelevant. And that's ok. It's a mark of good game design that the game can allow noobies to engage with it.

>>3925444
Wrong. You can solo the game as a martial. You can't as a full caster. Martials are doing 8k damage per round by level 10. Casters can't even approach that, not even by adding up all the damage an AoE nuke does to all affected targets. Casters don't scale well enough. They just don't. And that's even if you play on a difficulty setting low enough that allows casters to reliably land spells. They're hard capped by their caster levels. Martials are only capped by action economy since weapon damage scaling is on a baseline that far outpaces enemy hit points on a per-hit basis.
You can one-round the dragon in Act 3 with a fucking cavalier, one of the worst, weakest classes in the game. By contrast, it's literally impossible for her to fail any saves on any caster no matter how optimized, and her SR is unbeatable, too. You mathematically cannot land any spells on her if they allow SR or a save (unless she crit fails the saves, but she's blanket immune to most of them due to features anyway, if you check her statblock with a high enough knowledge).

>>3925405
The Pathfinder games doesn't even have anything woke, what are you even talking about?? Are you mad that Ekun, Seelah and Sosiel are black? Is that the whole thing? That's what you're on about? Three black characters in a cast of hundreds means it's woke??

>>3928119
>Become Baron
>return to your capital
>mandatory meeting with the interracial faggot couple and their "adopted" daughter
>"We cant wait to live in your hecking diverse barony m'lady!"

File: shelyn desna sarenrae.jpg (736.1 KB)

736.1 KB JPG

>>3928119
All the good-aligned gods of the setting are lesbians.

>>3928114
Most reddit niggerlover post award.

>The Loving Place is a cleft in Aucturn where a cloud of strange narcotic gas roils out and spreads for several hundred miles. Creatures that inhale this gas are compelled to capture any intruders, bring them to the Loving Place, and mate with them (regardless of size and species), while carefully ensuring that they do not die. As the prisoners inhale the vapours, they quickly convert to the mindset, and send their squamous children to hunt for their own mates.
James L. Sutter. “Chapter 1: The Solar System” in Distant Worlds, 49. Paizo Inc., 2012

>>3928112
2nd edition is more popular than 1st edition ever was

>>3927835
Get uncanny dodge. Or just don't get hit in the first place I guess.

>>3928124
And they all want Cayden Cailean's cock. He literally fucked the gayness out of them. Can't get more based than that.

>>3928207
MICKED

>>3926915
>NPCs yap way too fucking much and overshare and assume you give the slightest of shit.
This plus the game having like a billion in-engine scenes of some NPC walking up to your character at a glacial pace and gesturing gets absolutely infuriating after a few hours. The same thing happens, but even more in Rogue Trader.

>>3928147
That's simply not true though. It's ok if you like it more, but it isn't true that it's more popular.

>>3928124
>>3928207
That's called bisexuality. They aren't lesbians. The gods of Golarion are just ambivalent about sexuality and gender because they're transcendent beings beyond the bounds, concerns and connotations of matter, including flesh and mortal cultures. They're abstract concepts more than personalities, in the grand scheme of things.
More to the point though, "woke is when gays exist" is such a fucking stupid take. Why isn't woke when you have to eat lunch to maintain your biological processes? Metabolism is also a normal feature of biological evolution, so why are you picking and choosing? Are you not based enough to not need to eat, anons?

>>3928121
Is it mandatory since I never saw anything like that in my game? Did you make choices that made the scene happen, anon? You did, didn't you. You did.

>>3928600
>More to the point though, "woke is when gays exist" is such a fucking stupid take. Why isn't woke when you have to eat lunch to maintain your biological processes?
This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've read this year.

>>3928604
So you agree that there is no reason to get your panties in a sopping wet twisted knot on the floor over normal variation in biological species. Glad we got that figured out. Now, did you have an actual complaint about the game? Or are you still trying to process the culture war propaganda bullshit you're sucking from Putin's rotting penis?

>>3928606
>Or are you still trying to process the culture war propaganda bullshit you're sucking from Putin's rotting penis?
Damn. Now I can't tell if it was the stupidest thing anymore.

>>3928600
>they're transcendent beings beyond the bounds, concerns and connotations of matter, including flesh and mortal cultures.
But they still fuck like humans.

>>3928606
Having a single dyke, fag or bi god is one thing, having most of your pantheon be like that is indeed woke

>>3927873
No, they never said that, he's making shit up as always. They did say that they weren't making a Pathfinder game any time soon though

>>3928147
>2nd edition is more popular than 1st edition ever was
A significant portion of the Pathfinder player base were DnD players upset about post-3rd edition DnD and wanted to go back to something similar to 3rd edition, and were willing to tolerate Pathfinders goofy homebrew setting to get that.
I’d imagine the number of people who actually want Pathfinder for Pathfinders sake and would be willing to switch to an entirely new ruleset to keep playing Pathfinder is quite a bit smaller.

>>3928147
>>3928704
You must have missed the backlash to the OGL situation. Pathfinder sold out 8 months of stock in 2 weeks after that happened and continued to reap the benefits of WotC's mistake.

>>3928717
I remember reading that people were mad. Do you have any numbers to back up your claim? I cannot find any more recent than 2024, after a brief search (original Pathfinder was roughly 2-3x as popular then. Both were mogged by DnD 5th edition but such is life). I'm not necessarily buying it, because tabletop games in particular are relatively resistant to "you MUST consoom NEW PRODUCT by BRAND". If you're a grognard you can just keep playing the old shit. Doubly so if BRAND does some dumb shit that pisses you off and makes you want to stay away from NEW PRODUCT out of spite.

>>3928721
>tabletop games in particular are relatively resistant to "you MUST consoom NEW PRODUCT by BRAND"
That's Paizo's entire business model, they release adventures and books so frequently because they have a large group of players that buy everything they release. This has been their model since 1e.
Have you been away from tabletop for a while? D&D is like a lifestyle brand more than a game these days. Grognards don't matter when you have the gigantic horde of new players 5e has ushered in. And here's an article about Paizo and Chaosium benefiting from D&D stepping on a rake https://www.dicebreaker.com/categories/roleplaying-game/news/pathfinder-call-of-cthulhu-rpgs-sell-out-dnd-ogl-backlash

>>3928728
>Have you been away from tabletop for a while? D&D is like a lifestyle brand more than a game these days.
Yes. I played 2nd ed, 3rd ed, and 5th ed DnD. Didn’t care for 5th ed and stopped playing. No experience with Pathfinder outside of the Owlcat cRPGs.

>get an urge to play some Pathfinder
>fire up Treasure of the Midnight Isles to get it out of my system
>after about fifteen minutes the screens shut down and will not start up again until I reboot my computer from the power button
>this happens every time
I guess I'm gonna finally have to do something about the broken GPU fan huh

>>3925314
I'm about 50 hours into kingmaker now and in the 4th act (with the barbarians and undead cyclops) and slowly but surely my initial enthusiasm has been whittled down. Everything about the games appears to be designed for maximum frustration.

The overtuning of enemies requires never ending prebuffing, the game is absolutely filled to the brim with trash mobs and traps. I swear to God some of the dungeons have a fucking trap every 10 feet and another filler combat encounter every 20 feet. When you do get to a boss fight it always starts off with some ridiculous mechanic that stackwipes you in 3 turns requiring you to reload and prebuff based on whatever counter is required. Metagaming, how exciting.

The kingdom management requires companions that are easy to miss, killable and dismissable if they don't jive with your playstyle. Couple that with the fact it requires frequent time investments while always being on the clock with a timed main quest. I also don't like the companions. Oh woe is Valerie, it's sooooo hard being pretty. Harrim is en emo faggot, just fucking kill yourself already. Linzi is le heckin epic adventurer, Octavia is a filthy orc fucker and the orc is a savage animal, the gnome is an arrogant prick which I guess is the point so that gets a pass, Tristin is just a fag in the way elves typically are but at least Amiri is straight forward. Rip and tear, I can get with that and at least she isn't insufferable. I do enjoy the overall story though but I won't suffer through the rest just for that.

I hate that I started out loving the game and slowly turned against it. Such a shame. The game is truly worse than the sum of its parts.

>>3928731
You should know that Owlcat made those two games based on two popular "Adventure Paths" which are complete campaigns / stories developed and published by Paizo. Paizo has made many more than just those two. And the mechanical rules are publicly available at "source reference document" sites around the internet. The d20pfsrd does not have a license agreement with Paizo so they cannot show things that are specific to Paizo's proprietary setting / world (Golarion), but the mechanics of the game are covered by the OGL so no license needed for that. And they just give generic names to things like "the goddess of the sun". Archives Of Nethys does have a license agreement, so they can show Golarion-specific things like the names of the setting's gods, for example.
So you can literally just play Pathfinder at the tabletop without any buying anything at all. Roll20 is free to use. Discord is free to use. You can just... play the game if you want to. There's lots of people running PF1e because they prefer it over other systems. Go to /tg/ here on 4chan.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/

>>3928721
>tabletop games in particular are relatively resistant to "you MUST consoom NEW PRODUCT by BRAND". If you're a grognard you can just keep playing the old shit. Doubly so if BRAND
... That is just SO fucking not true, anon. Hasbro / WotC is even more aggressive about pushing their products and brands than fucking Apple. I'm so torn between shock and horror that I feel physically ill at how ignorant you are.
>and makes you want to stay away from NEW PRODUCT out of spite.
That's the correct thing to do. Do not fucking give them money. WotC is the worst abomination capitalism has ever produced.
You can eyepatch-and-peg-leg GURPS, too, for example. Here, take this:
https://gurpscharactersheet.com/
and search /tg/ for links to the yo-ho-ho community repository of all SJG's GURPS books. SJG himself is a fucking shitbag, but he didn't have that much to do with the system as it currently exists and it's better than any of the d20 systems. Just don't give any of them money. You don't have to. There's no reason to.

>>3928704
I use Pathfinder exclusively for sword-and-sorcery because it's just the best system for that genre. It's not because I fucking hate D&D (which I definitely do). Except for GURPS, there just aren't any better systems that do crunchy dungeon crawling better.

>>3925314
I start to play pathfinder kingmaker a couple of weeks ago and I really like it

>>3928600
>So you agree that there is no reason to get your panties in a sopping wet twisted knot on the floor over normal variation in biological species.
quite literally jewish lies.

>>3928600
>That's called bisexuality. They aren't lesbians. The gods of Golarion are just ambivalent about sexuality and gender because they're transcendent beings beyond the bounds, concerns and connotations of matter, including flesh and mortal cultures.
>doesn't know about theogony and eros
Wew lad, stopped reading right then and there.

>>3932173
>I'm so torn between shock and horror that I feel physically ill at how ignorant you are.
Setting aside that I said I dropped tabletop years ago and am out of the loop, this is something of an absurd overreaction, no?
My point was, tabletop is an analog and offline medium. If you liked 2nd or 3rd ed DnD and you think 5th is trash, you still have all your books, right? What’s to stop you from playing the old versions? It’s not like an online video game where they stopped supporting private servers and can then shut down the matchmaking at will to compel you to move on to the new version. It’s just books and dice and paper. If you want to keep playing the old game there’s nothing stopping you.

>>3932192
>this is something of an absurd overreaction, no?
Mnnnnnot really, no. It's like if your mom asked who's Darth Vader and why is she important. Your jaw would drop because it's not some kind of special secret nerd knowledge. You can't have lived on Earth at any point in the last sixty years without knowing at least that Darth Vader is a man and he's a primary character of Star Wars. The WotC vs. Paizo OGL drama made front page news on literally every news platform that I'm aware of because it was an absolutely world-shaping legal situation. It's like if Trump simply declared that Americans no longer have private property. Or like if China invaded New York. There just isn't any reasonable explanation for how you could have not heard about it happening because the consequences of the outcome would change the world immediately.
Just to remind you, copyright law is a central foundation of the entire fucking world's economics and political structure.

>>3932192
>My point was, tabletop is an analog and offline medium.
No it's not. Less than 10% of tabletop players actually meet up in person anymore. Virtual tabletop platforms and services like Foundry and Roll20 completely dominate the tabletop gaming space now.
>If you liked 2nd or 3rd ed DnD and you think 5th is trash, you still have all your books, right?
That's a more nuanced issue. The books of course aren't in print anymore. Which means their supply is technically limited, and in practice non-trivial to acquire since it's not actually legal to copy them or share the digitized copies you've made. Most of 3rd edition isn't covered by the OGL, and the 2nd edition ruleset was never free. It's a lot like old video games. No one makes the Earthbound cartridge anymore. There's ROMs, sure. And that might last for the rest of our natural lives. But in principle it's discontinued and in practice the number of people who are still playing Earthbound is constantly getting smaller for many reasons.
In the case of multiplayer games like MMOs... or tabletop RPGs... your ability to play the game is contingent upon not just the service being available, but ALSO the sociological dynamics involved. If people think the MMO is unpopular, they won't want to join to play it, even if it's good. I hope you see where that line of reasoning is going?

I bought the game for 4 dollars and gave it a go.
>Combat is too fast for real time but too slow for turn based.
>Map layouts are awkward but I wouldn't call them poorly designed. The staglord fight is what comes to mind.
>Combat is not enjoyable nor does character building.
The overly complex character builds too that lead to everything being roughly the same is a turn off as well. I dropped it once the plague storyline started I just couldn't get into it and wasn't being hooked.

>>3932203
You think Pathfinder's character building is complex?!
What the fuck?
Do you lose interest before you can finish tying your fucking shoes or something?

>>3932208
NTA but the game is filled to the brim with classes, subclasses, feats and spells. Most of the feats are dogshit but it throws an absolute fuckton of shit at you.

Being a spastic doesn't help your case. Go to /v/ if you want to be an insulting retard.

>>3932213
You have difficulty counting past ten without taking your shoes off.

>>3932215
What a defensive retard.

>>3925314
Pathfinder is extremely woke. And I mean it when I claim that it's EXTREMELY woke. And due to it being woke the whole setting seems extremely fucking stupid.
I could stomach Kingmaker as it was an overall O.K. experience (and I was thirsty for new crpgs at a time), but Wrath is a total cringe factory - from start to finish. Regill was the only stand-out and a possitive, but there are still people who claim that Wrath had better writing for some reason and not once did anyone managed to explain how is better because it's total horseshit.
I could get build-fags being fine with it, but if you want something more out of it - tough luck.
The only praise it deserves is an award for having worst alignment system implementation yet. Fucking hell, I want my hours spent playing WOTR back.

>>3925314
Kingmaker has some of the most infuriatingly cringe inducing companion roster out of almost any RPG ever. It’s truly astonishing how insufferable, unsympathetic, and eye rolling they managed to write this cast of characters. Whatever redeemable qualities some of the characters have are quickly forgotten because of forced treachery arcs, and if they have a consistent theme and place then it’s ruined by bad voice acting and/or shitty backstories. Mechanically the timed quests is novel and manages to be one of the few RPG’s that properly handles an urgent task main quest while including side quests, but this feature along with kingdom management quickly falls apart the very moment you finish Act 4. A lot of the good alignment locked options are extremely questionable because you can achieve the same or better results and greater lasting peace through the neutral locked options, and many of the evil locked options are mechanically lackluster at best or actively suicidal at worst such as the banditry value kingdom buildings like thieve’s guilds. Lawful locked options and chaotic options were the only alignment choices that were handled well and provided meaningful decisions. Kingmaker is a game that desperately needed a tard wrangler of some kind, someone to tell the leads “no” to such stupid design and writing choices.

>>3925314
Kingmaker has this problem where a fair amount of the companions don’t have very solid motivations for staying in your party. Harrim worships a god of entropy and is anti-civilization, so the fact he helps you build up your kingdom and doesn’t leave after you beat the stag lord is very strange. Nok-nok is a literal chaotic evil goblin who has no interest in your endeavors, and Octavia and Reg are escaped slaves who should be getting as far away from Numeria as possible instead of hanging around disputed territory with changeable borders where slavers easily operate.

>>3933658
I guess "woke" means sometimes characters have skin darker than "eggshell" and two gay people exist in a cast of thousands of characters.
Ok. I'm fine with that. It could be better, but it's better than the standard has been these last fifty years.

>>3934425
The entire point of Kingmaker is that the companions are all failures or flawed in their own way, and that they develop as people over the course of the adventure.
It's an untamed wilderness and these are the dregs and outcasts of society who are going there to homestead and make a new life for themselves because their old lives have collapsed for some reason or another. They're literally running away from their problems to build an entirely new country for themselves.
That's why they're all assholes, idiots and fools in the beginning. Each of them develops over the course of their story to make peace with or resolve their problems, which they couldn't have done if they hadn't come to the Stolen Lands with you. You aren't supposed to love them as they were when they start the story. They're broken people. If they just started out as lovable and perfect, there wouldn't be a story involving them adventuring with you.
Do you even understand the purpose of RPGs, anon? No. No you don't.

>>3934925
It's not strange. Harrim's story does involve constantly questioning his reason for existing and his motives for adventuring with you. It's like... the one thing he constantly is talking about. Which you'd know if you paid attention to reading the words on the screen.
And there's many many many reasons that develop over the course of his story about why he doesn't kill himself and why he keeps adventuring with you. The ultimate outcome of his story does depend on your choices and how you influence him. One of the outcomes is that he remains in a state of broken will, wallowing in morose apathy as a depressed failure who gives up on your kingdom and his place in it.
You didn't even play the fucking game, anon.

>>3932230
I mean... you're the one desperate to defend a hot take that's just objectively not true under honest scrutiny.

>>3934925
>Octavia and Reg are escaped slaves who should be getting as far away from Numeria as possible instead of hanging around disputed territory with changeable borders where slavers easily operate
Right, being two escaped slaves on the run is far safer than staying in a region where they're essentially nobility and close adventuring companions of the local Baron/King.

>>3925321
if you need buffs for anything but boss fights you SUCK

>>3925314
>Every mythic path needs some mentor/teacher type to ease you into your role as a different entity.
>For Aeon it's a failed you that travelled from the future.

Kino.

>>3934425
This >>3934952. The way you fail most of their personal storylines is by either giving them exactly what they want, or trying to be some contrarian and completely change their worldviews.

>>3935188
Counterpoint: buffs last long enough you can cruise through the whole dungeon before they lapse so there's not much reason to not buff up early and skip past the trash more easily.
Buffs aren't even necessary for bosses, either. What you actually need for the bosses is a successful dispel to remove all of *their* buffs...

>>3925366
Please no. I'd rather not get space opera RPGs than for the genre to be remade in owlshit's image

>>3925322
100%
Thread should've ended here.

Pathfinder games are legit terrible, i have no idea why Redditors insist they are good games.

>>3925314
Owlcat's Pathfinder series has its fair share of problems, but despite that, they're still one of the best power fantasy games in the genre.

>>3925322
>>3935530
And yet most of the complaints about classes and things are that the classes are all too different and complex and hard to choose between.
That there aren't enough combat encounters to extend the game.
That buffs are irrelevant if you know how to play the game.
That the story is the best thing ever and that there isn't enough of it.
So... maybe, since you're in the stark minority, you guys just have shitty opinions based on nothing but juvenile contrarianism? Or illiteracy?
>>3935532
Owlcat's games don't have any problems that don't plague literally all other games currently due to limited funding and time pressures (which isn't the fault of the developer, it's the fault of economic / market pressures... if you want this art form, you have to find a way to make this kind of art), or which are not characteristics of all RPGs as a genre by definition.

>>3935462
You mean you have to mindfully engage with a character's story to form a meaningful response? You can't just click "I completely agree with you" or "I complete disagree with you" every time???? What the FUCK?!

>>3925314
Baldur's gate didn't get a 3rd game either.

>>3935553
>And yet most of the complaints about classes and things are that the classes are all too different and complex and hard to choose between.
In your head maybe. Most people who never played the game might say that because they see a lot of shit.Those who actually play the games sknow different.
>That there aren't enough combat encounters to extend the game.
Is this a joke? EVERYBODY complains about too much trash/fodder fights. Who in their right mind wants more encounters?
>That buffs are irrelevant if you know how to play the game.
Bullshit, buffs are needed for higher difficulties.
Have you even played the games on anything except easy? Going through the game without buffs is a miserable experience.
>So... maybe, since you're in the stark minority, you guys just have shitty opinions based on nothing but juvenile contrarianism? Or illiteracy?
Nice headcanon. And the writing in pathfinder is extremely juvenile.

Play on core or hard
Use buffbot to alleviate tedium
Minute/level buffs for regular exploring
Save round/level buffs for bosses only

Do Rogue Trader threads ever get posted? I liked that way more than the Pathfinder games even though I've yet to make it far into the second chapter due to rerolling everytime I come back to it.

>>3937499
There isn't anything to complain about with Rogue Trader, and the bisexual companions are trapped in the closet, so the /pol/tards don't even know about them yet.

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>>3925314
Woke dogshit with lesbian midget romance taking up the first 2 hours.

>>3937626
...w-we could talk positively about Rogue Trader then? No? Ok...

>>3937642
Rogue Trader isn't a Pathfinder game. Very emphatically, it's a Warhammer 40k game...
If you want to talk about it, make a separate thread for it.

>>3937787
..well yeah thats why I said >>3937499
I wasn't trying to talk about it HERE was just curious if they ever got posted since I haven't seen them but I'm not active on these basket weaving forums all the time.

I don't like the setting or companions and I couldn't play them for more than a few hours.

Just finished kingmaker and actually managed to marry nyrssa for a change, best girl I forgive you

I just played martial so I want to play a caster

>>3937634
>lesbian midget romance
hot

>>3937634
Those articles have got to be fake

>>3938725
Yeah, let's all just trust a random "screenshot" posted to 4chan by an anonymous user who has been ranting up and down this thread with ultra-fash /pol/ talking points from Russia.
Meanwhile, notice how you've been distracted from talking about the actual game? You know. Pathfinder?

>>3938725
>he doesn’t know

>>3938734
Would someone really do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?

>>3925314
Wotr is fun gameplay, good combat, but the story is some fucking retarded fantasysloppa, big time. It's sad, nobody can write anymore.

>>3938931
They don't even have to directly say an untruth, all they have to do is repeat irrelevancies or omit context while they're stirring up shit about nothing. It prevents discussion, it prevents the development of meaning, it undermines commitment to truth and wisdom, it just sprays feces everywhere so that no one wants to actually engage with anything ever. The firehose of falsehoods (the name for this strategy in Russia, who developed the technique for use in international propaganda efforts) does indeed employ a lot of lies, but facts presented without context are also lies. That's a key and fundamental point to keep in mind.

Meanwhile, you notice how we're STILL NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ACTUAL GAME? The thread has still been successfully derailed with bullshit culture war propaganda? It poisons your ability to enjoy anything. You can't even fucking play a goddamn video game or talk about it because of the hypersaturation of Russian /pol/tard propaganda.

>>3939175
>Meanwhile, you notice how we're STILL NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ACTUAL GAME?
Yeah fair.
I actually played a bit yesterday. Treasure of the Midnight Isles, currently with a party of
>tiefling bard
>gnome sorcerer (overwhelming mage)
>halfling paladin
>half-orc druid (elemental rampager)
>oread cleric (ecclesitheurge)
>the cleric's pet velociraptor from Scalekind domain
It's fun, even if Treasure of the Midnight Isles just isn't that good. I wish they'd released modding tools for the game, I'm sure someone would have made some cool campaigns by now.

>>3925314
How the fuck do you play as a druid in act 1? I specc'd into winter child caster druid and everything has cold resistance and DR. Am I supposed to let Seelah fight everything while I sit on my ass? The constant stinking clouds at level 2 are also annoying but I guess you can buy delay poison scrolls.

best dips for legend level 40 cleric?

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>party could use a wizard who isn't Nenio
>go ask Hilor
>60500 gold
What the fuck
That's technically affordable but still insane
Does it depend on current level? Should I have hired a bunch of mercs in Act 1?

>>3940859
>go fight in a holy crusade against demons that are resistant to energy damage
>with a class that specializes in elemental magic
I guess it could be worse. At least you're not a lightning mage.
It'll probably be fine once you get the mything power that lets your ice magic bypass all damage resistance, but Kenabres will be rough.

>>3942878
>Does it depend on current level?
Yes

>>3942906
I played through WotR at release on core or regular hard (I forget which) with a custom party that included a fire blasting cleric and a lightning blasting wizard, they did fine and wiped shit out. You get abilities later on to get through enemy resistances

>>3942959
>to get through enemy resistances
... and convert immunities to resistances. Elemental builds like kineticist ones are viable, yes.

>>3932208
It objectively is
You got a billion noob traps feats, a billion backgrounds (you'll use 3-4 btw), a billion homogenized subclasses that just devolve into "this feat better" or "this one more feats", mandatory dips into monk in higher diffs etc
and you have to juggle all that with choosing a mythic path at which point you'll have to choose between RP or take a serious blow to your min-maxing
Its a hassle and the first game I had no problem looking up guides for, especially since 90% of the builds play the same in the end : Stack AoOs, stack Pre-buffs, right click thing with a caster dispelling shit, outbloat the bloat the game throws at you. ZZZZ

>>3928114
I'm playing through Kingmaker on normal. I'm fighting the troll and tartuccio in act 2, i'm buffing to kingdom come and its still difficult. I'm still failing. Am I just shit at the game?
>>3925366

>>3925439
I’m glad there are competent videogames for this system so if anyone comes to me wanting to do min max crunch shit at my ttrpg table I know where to direct them
>t. DM

>Break Enchantment
>"This spell frees victims from enchantments, transmutations and curses."
>Actually does nothing to curses
Why is this game like this?

>>3943517
If it broke curses it would trivialize the game, no?

>>3942980
It objectively isn't.
Feats do exactly what their description says. There's no advanced math involved in anything. It's literally just straight addition and subtraction. +1 damage is +1 damage. +1 to accuracy is +1 to accuracy. You have only four defense checks, and they all four work exactly the same way: roll 1d20 and add a number to it and see if that's higher than the target number.
There's only like twelve skills and they all have extremely clearly defined use cases.
Nothing is hidden or abstract or obscure. All the options available to you state very clearly what they do. Everything tells you exactly what you need to have before you can buy it. There's only twenty character levels, there's only like six actual base classes and all the others are just combinations hybridizing between them.

This is as simple and stripped down minimalistic as you can get without playing fucking tic-tac-toe.

>>3943016
They're bosses, anon.
And you are a little bit bad at the game if you're struggling on that fight, yeah.
Here's a big important tip: the Slow spell is the most important one in the entire game. Why? Because it inflicts Staggered while also reducing movement speed. Why is that important? Because a Staggered creature can only take one Standard Action or a Move Action, but not both like you normally can. In other words, you cannot Full Attack.
Trolls have multiple Natural Attacks (bites and claws and stuff), and at those character levels, creatures have what's called "iterative" attacks. But it takes a Full Round Action to attack more than once.
In other other words, if you Slow the trolls (including the boss troll), they only get a single attack per round (which can still miss). Compare that to how many attacks per round they normally get if they're just standing there full attacking.

Tartuccio is a sorcerer. He has a bad Fortitude save. You can stun him with Sound Burst (a cleric spell).

Dispel is hard to land reliably, but it's an obvious (if time consuming) way to strip all the buffs off the bosses. In addition, if they're using Blur / Displacement (most important creatures do), the Blind Fight feats are very very useful to deal with that.

Use acid on the trolls. The story arc in that chapter is about how they're becoming resistant to fire.

>>3943645
Not really, but the break enchantment spell is explicitly supposed to cleanse curse-typed effects. So if it isn't curing curses, that's a bug. In particular, it's also supposed to cleanse Confusion...

>>3943664
If the confusion was caused by a magic effect. Fungal spores and stuff can cause conditions which aren't flagged as curses or enchantments or whatever.

>>3943061
Munchinkry isn't really restricted to any particular game system. It's a feature of a specific player demographic.

>>3943517
>If the spell is one that cannot be dispelled by dispel magic, break enchantment works only if that spell is 5th level or lower.
There's a shit ton of things that break enchantment can't work on.

>>3943664
It mostly seems to dispel beneficial magical effects that I've cast myself.
>>3943836
Bestow Curse is fourth level though. Unless the ghosts I was fighting get a special version that's higher for absolutely no reason.

>>3943658
>Feats do exactly what their description says.
Except the ones that don't. Metamagic (Selective) explicitly claims that it only works on instantaneous effects, not spells with a duration. This is a lie. Selective grease, pit and web all work just as well as selective fireball.
The weirdest thing about it is that Treasure of the Midnight Isles has Tailwind of Scorched Earth, which protects allies from area damage cast by specific classes, and THAT only works on duration: instant spells. Like, the effect is already there in the game engine. It's just not used for the metamagic feat.

>>3943661
Wow anon, thanks big time. I started using slow spell and its a complete game changer. Had to up the difficulty to challenging to make it fun.

>>3925314
>So, when will Owlcat deliver a third game?
Didn't they go on to make Slophammer games?

>>3940859
You're expected to just know that certain damage types are shit and either never use them, or respect into them later. By midgame you get options to ignore damage resistance but you'll have to let your party carry you until then if you chose to focus on a shit damage type. Ice isn't even the worst one, Lightning and Poison are far worse.

>>3944900
They made a slophammer 40k game and they're making a second, and then they'll be releasing a game based on the Expanse. No news on Pathfinder, that I know of.
I kind of wish they'd make a slophammer fantasy RPG.

>>3925315
this except the opposite

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Not impressed with the options here. Like, trusting the cultists is obviously dumb, but at the same time, there's no actual reason to torture them. Their leader volunteered information quite readily when prompted, and doesn't seem like he's very good at lying.

>>3926706
Maybe Alchemist , Shaman and Witch too

>>3942980
>at which point you'll have to choose between RP or take a serious blow to your min-maxing
I don't think the classes have much to do with roleplaying. They're a gameplay gimmick in my opinion. They say very little about your character. Aside from alignment locks, they have barely any effect on the story. I certainly don't feel the immersion suffers at all from me giving Arueshalae some vivisectionist levels or Regil some dirge bard etc.

>>3946830
>I don't think the classes have much to do with roleplaying
Stopped reading here

>>3946845
Don't stop trying. I'm sure you're able to read the whole thing one day.

>>3925439
Just give everyone sneak attack bro.
Bravo roleplaying owl shit.

>>3946687
Base Alch is a fine jack of all trades, Alch being a skill monkey means you don't have to over-specialize to have value

What are my best options if I like traditional spellcasters the most in my vidya? Preferrably mana-based rather than rest-based if that is an option

>>3925314
Owlcat’s biggest flaw as developers is their inability to structure pacing properly. Their final acts are always clusterfucks that cram every loose end together while overwhelming the player with urgency in extremely small windows. Rogue Trader handled pacing a bit better than their previous Pathfinder games but fucks loot progression.

>>3948076
Play a sorcerer and pick your favorite spells that you’ll use constantly.

>>3948297
Sounds good. I looked it up a bit and I don't quite understand how a wizard would work in practice
I guess you only prepare one all-rounder spell per level so you can just put all your prepared spells into that?

>ayo dog I heard you like heroes 3 so we put in heroes 3
Lmao

>>3948388
It has way more than 3 heroes

>>3925883
Rogue Trader was great, the only bad thing about is how weak most companion quests are and that it got me to give Kingmaker 30h of my life thinking it would slowly get to the same level.
Looking forward to Dark Heresy.
>>3928579
this is also a very valid point, why the fuck are the cinematics so damn slow, you should at least be able to skip the animation and go straight to dialogue if you want to

I just started WotR after finishing Kingmaker.
Do i have to min/max for this game as much as I did Kingmaker?

>>3954617
Only if you play on unfair

>>3954626
So I don't have to play 50 different classes, I can just level my kineticist to 20?

>>3954635
Dips are for faggots. Build reasonable characters with pure classes and you’ll be fine. I like to use a custom party and bench the companions.

>>3925314
They already did. It's Rogue Trader.
When will they make another Pathfinder game? Well, they can't make another game using PF1e currently and probably will never be able to do so since there's legal issues surrounding the OGL now after Hasbro / WotC pulled some pretty illegal legal shennanigans about it a while back.

>>3954635
There is absolutely nothing wrong with leveling any of the classes straight to 20 with no dips.
As someone who's been playing PF1e since it launched in 2010, let me just warn you that you are NOT likely to be able to concoct a multiclass build that can outperform a single pure class. It's possible for very very very VERY specific special cases. But if you're ever in an encounter where that weird little gimmick isn't applicable, you're gonna fucking hate how hard you suck.
Stick to the single classes. Seriously.

Kineticist is, by the way, game-breakingly overpowered. Just for the record.

>>3954667
>Kineticist is, by the way, game-breakingly overpowered. Just for the record.
I know. That's why I picked it. I was surprised how good the twins were in Kingmaker.

>>3954671
To answer your question about Wrath, I don't think you need to min max on normal or lower difficulties. But you do have to know how stacking rules and action economy works. You have to know how to deal with various conditions and buffs on enemies and your party. And basically just don't make extremely foolish decisions that multiclassing one level in six different caster classes....

>>3954680
Yeah I did play Kingmaker and finished it with the secret ending.
I just wanted to know if I needed to min/max as much in Wrath.

>>3954689
That's what I mean. I don't think you do. The early parts of the game will feel like you have to. The later parts will feel like you're strong because of how mythic powers are basically multipliers.
The early parts of the game you'll feel like everything is just a little too strong and you're exhausting your spells too quickly. That's just how low level Pathfinder kind of is in some ways, but also it's part of the story: to make the player feel like the demons are supernaturally powerful enemies and their threat is real to normal mortals.
As you continue through the game you gain levels and some mythic ranks but you gain power faster than enemies scale, so you'll feel like you are beginning to catch up (other than a few specific overwhelming optional bosses). By the time you get to Alyshinyrra you'll feel like you're plowing through mooks when suddenly there's a few specific "gotcha" bosses which might be showstoppers and you'll have to reload to prepare for them better (unless you know they're coming and you're already prepared).

Some mythic paths are just better than others, though. And some are bluntly incompatible with certain builds (like... why would you ever go Demon MP if you're playing a pure caster??? it can be done but... should it???)

Do you NEED to minmax? Noo..... not on Normal or lower difficulty... but you do need to know how the game actually works on Normal diff.

>>3954696
Yeah I went through all that with Kingmaker. And since Wrath is the same system I figured it was mostly the same.
Did I figure wrong? Is Wrath vastly different from Kingmaker?

>>3954697
No.
Wrath is PF1e just like Kingmaker. There are some extra character creation options, additional feats and archetypes and that kind of thing. Nothing about the actual game systems is different. It's Pathfinder 1st edition.

What Wrath does include that Kingmaker doesn't is the Mythic subsystem. It's a kind of additional character progression system unique to the Wrath Of The Righteous adventure path / campaign. Think of it like a parallel prestige class or gestalt class that you progress in as you complete specific plot points. It does not compete with your normal character levels at all. It's completely separate. The Mythic system is like "uber" powers that let you surpass the normal limitations of the game's features / mechanics in some ways. It's part of the story that you're transcending the normal abilities of mortal folk.

The Mythic system is an optional part of Pathfinder 1st edition. Kingmaker and Wrath are both PF1e, they're the same game system. Wrath just adds the Mythic subsystem because it's an integral part of that specific story.

Both games actually only implement a certain subset of the full PF1e published mechanics. There's a loooooot of classes and archetypes and feats and spells that the Kingmaker and Wrath games don't have or couldn't implement. You can read more about the tabletop ruleset in various places around the internet like

here: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/
or here: https://www.aonprd.com/

>>3954754
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
Btw I just got Lann. Why does he have 2 bow attacks at level 1?

>>3954768
He's a Zen Archer which is an archetype of Monk. The sort of class-defining feature of Monks is Flurry Of Blows, which allows them an extra attack per round when they Full Attack.
The Zen Archer is a hyper-specialized archer variant of monk. It's kind of like when you got Ekun in Kingmaker and he's a Ranger who specialized in archery as a combat style, right? Except that Zen Archer is even more hard-specialized as an archer. If you buy Vital Strike with Lann, pick up True Strike as one of his ki powers when you get the chance.
Archers are extremely strong throughout the game because they can stand in one spot and just full attack every round, whereas melees sometimes need to move around. This is mitigated by the existence of Vital Strike and certain Mythic abilities that allow you to add all your bonus damage on top of Vital Strike, so that you can preserve most of your damage even if you can only use a Standard Action.

But I digress. You need to open your characters' character sheets and read through their feats and abilities and what their classes do. It's all documented in there. There is nothing in the game which is hidden or secret. All the features, all the spells, all the traits, everything that affects the characters is in their character sheet tabs, including a summary of their combat performance (like how many attacks they have and at what bonuses). The combat log will show you full details about calculations when to-hit and damage are calculated, etc. You gotta read, nigga.

>>3954754
I just hope that any future Pathfinder project by Owlcat keeps to 1e. The little I've read of 2e just makes me question why it exists (other than to sell new core books to people, of course). I mean the entire reason for Paths' existence is to be a continuation of D&D 3.5, and 2e Path seems to more so be its own thing. If it was a competent company doing this then that could be good, but I don't think the people who made Starfinder are the right people to be thinking for themselves.

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>>3928606

>>3954958
It's because PF1e is possible only due to the Open Game License (the OGL) which made the *mechanics* of 3.5e basically "free use" / "open source". You don't have to pay to use the or print stuff that uses them. WotC still owns all the setting-specific stuff. It's only the mechanics which are free.
When WotC began to create 4th edition D&D, they did not put it under the OGL. All of 4e remains proprietary. You have to pay to use it.

When 4e was launched, it was poorly received by the playerbase. People fucking hated it. They wanted to stay with 3.5e but they wanted certain balance issues addressed. Paizo had been making content for 3.5e for years. And WotC then suddenly dropped them, discontinuing those contracts. So, to stay in business, Paizo made some balance updates to the 3.5 ruleset and created Pathfinder, which was still legally bound by / covered by the OGL. All the mechanics for PF1e were at the time free and open. You didn't have to pay to use them. This made it very popular.

Fast forward to a few years ago when WotC attacked the OGL by attempting to revert control over it in an effort to legally sabotage Paizo and their Pathfinder product. The goal was to recover ownership of the 3.5 ruleset and then charge Paizo money retroactively for the decade of content they'd published under PF1e which was under the OGL.

Make sense so far?

>>3955407
>cont'd
2nd edition Pathfinder was originally created because PF1e was considered "old" and "outdated game design" by large segments of the tabletop playerbase who had never played anything other than D&D 5e or even who hadn't heard of Pathfinder before. So there was a huge problem. Certain elements of PF2e were implicated by content which had been covered by the OGL...

So suddenly Paizo had to revamp PF2e in an attempt to position it as their hip new modern ruleset while also getting rid of everything that might be a legal liability.... thus PF2.5 was born.

And now we come to Owlcat. When Wrath was made, PF1e was still covered under the OGL, and Paizo's proprietary setting, Golarion, was okie dokie, and Paizo licensed Pathfinder and Owlcat made Kingmaker and Wrath back to back. Alrighty then.

Except now, WotC with Hasbro money has poisoned the Pathfinder brand, putting everything related to PF1e in legal jeopardy. Any new products made with PF1e could at any time be attacked through legal litigation, and then whoever made it would be on the hook for retroactive compensation if they lose the legal fight.

No PF1e products will ever be made ever again because of Hasbro and WotC using quasi-legal exploits to sabotage their competitor. The legal argument for their attack is shaky at best... but would require a lot of money to litigate in court if a victim wanted to defend themselves. Hasbro has billions. Paizo and Owlcat do not.

No PF1e products will ever be made ever again because of Hasbro and WotC. Never... fucking EVER give D&D or WotC or Hasbro even one goddamn penny of your money ever fucking again.

Is Rogue Trader actually good

>>3955429
Yes.
You might want to wait till this DLC lands though, because it'll expand content and add another companion again.
But yes the game is very fuckin' good.

>>3955848
I should add that all the DLCs have been very worth it so far. No reason to expect this next one to break that trend.

>>3925321
This tbqh. The way I played these games was just to use all of those 10+ minute buffs and let my martials mow down the enemies. Maybe cast haste or resistance to element if its a harder fight. Couldn't even be bothered with wizards because the spells just felt like ass

>>3955848
>You might want to wait till this DLC lands though,
I played Kingmaker EE (after all patches etc) and liked it
Then I played WotR at launch and it was a buggy unplayable mess for 6 months of patches
End result, I swore to never play an Owlcat game until it gets a “it’s done” final edition. And so I haven’t played WotR since, and still haven’t played RT. What the fuck are they doing

>>3956630
It's kind of wild that you're saying shit like that because I've played all three games right from launch, and I swear to whichever fucking god you choose that I never noticed any actual bugs. Are you sure you weren't just confused about the game's mechanics? Like you expected to be able to sneak attack a Barbarian and you got frustrated because you didn't realize they have Uncanny Dodge or something like that?
No one is gonna abduct you from your bedrot and force you to play games, anon. Owlcat's games are the best RPGs made in the last twenty years and possibly of all time. That's just fact. Enjoy stuff or don't, you get to deal with your choices. If you don't like RPGs you don't have to play RPGs. Go play something more your speed. Like tic-tac-toe.

>>3956481
I'm gonna let you in on a huuuuuuuuuuuge bit of cultural drama in the tabletop space. Wizards have always been a worthless class because spells aren't very good at doing stuff. It's, like, the most heretical yet demonstrable fact about the d20 ruleset family, and it's been true since the '80s. Yet if you say it out loud somewhere like /tg/ you will literally get death threats. It's fucking wild, dude, you have no fucking idea.
But anyway, reducing your reliance on buffs is a way of manipulating the difficulty of the game outside of the difficulty options.

By the way, did you know you can solo the game on hardcore using a martial but you can't do it with a caster? Just thought folks here might like to know that.

>>3956665
>It's kind of wild that you're saying shit like that because I've played all three games right from launch, and I swear to whichever fucking god you choose that I never noticed any actual bugs
You are obviously baiting, or lying. The launch version of Kingmaker was legendarily buggy, to the point that it would not even launch until after patches. Quoth the game's technical director, Alexey Drobyshevsky:
>Our first game Pathfinder Kingmaker, which released in not just a buggy state, it was literally unplayable not figuratively, literally unplayable. We released to falling Steam reviews and we were scrambling to fix it. For more than a month we released a patch basically every other day. Imagine you release the game and immediately you start seeing on Steam reports that the game just wouldn't start at all It just hangs on the loading screen, and we were seeing this like an hour after the release.
>Owlcat's games are the best RPGs made in the last twenty years and possibly of all time.
No one believes this. You are clearly baiting.
>Enjoy stuff or don't, you get to deal with your choices.
I played and enjoyed Kingmaker (in its post-patches state), and I played and enjoyed WotR (after about six months of patches). You are retarded.
>If you don't like RPGs you don't have to play RPGs. Go play something more your speed. Like tic-tac-toe.
I have very likely been playing RPGs for longer than you have been alive.
I give your trolling a 2/10, mediocre and unsubtle but at least you prompted a (you) so enjoy.

>>3956748
You know what I think? I think you are baiting or lying. You can't just rely on memes and strongly-worded opinions of fools on 4chan. Just cause you don't know how flanking works or why you can't attack while nauseated doesn't mean the game was buggy.
And no, you absolutely have not been playing any kind of games longer than anyone has been alive, baby boy.
Now toddle on back to your high chair and beg your mommy to find your paci. You're done.

>>3948299
Wizards have more variety of spells they can use than sorcerers and allow you to carefully plan for specific encounters because of prepared spells that are recorded through a spellbook. So, AoE environmental Conjuration spells, summons, and buffs are what wizards excel at because they can utilize them in a synergy to trivialize encounters. Sorcerers are more adaptable without planning at the cost of lacking variety in spells they can cast and require very selective use of spell choice upon leveling as they can’t switch them out. From a mechanical standpoint, sorcerers are better “blasters” who send constant barrage of offensive spells throughout encounters, while wizards excel in strategies involving set up; so ultimately, it’s up to your play style and how you like to approach encounters. Another thing to keep in mind is that wands & spell scrolls exist, so if you have the right items you can adjust your strategy regardless of your arcane spellcaster preference:

>>3948299
It's Vancian magic. Spells are like grenades. You have to construct each grenade, and when you throw the grenade it explodes. If you want another one of those grenades, you have to construct it. You can construct multiple copies of the same type of grenade, but there is a limit on how many total grenades of that particular rank that you can construct. So in a given rank, you can construct whatever combination of ammo you want. But you can only construct grenades by sleeping.

You want to prepare nothing but Fireball spells in your spell level 3 slots? You can. But that would mean you can't cast, say, Slow spells because you didn't prepare any copies of Slow. You only prepared Fireball. If you want to prepare Fireball or Slow, you need to have the "recipe" in your spellbook. It's a cookbook of recipes. And you're baking fireball cakes. Or a mix of fireball and slow cakes. But you have to bake them that morning. You can't throw any cakes that you haven't prepared.

That's wizards.

Sorcs are like that, except they don't use a recipe book. They just remember a small number of their favorite recipes, and they can can instantly pop out whatever cake they want, provided they have enough cake tins (spell slots) of that rank. Let's say you have four cake tins of spell level 3. You can decide right now you want to cast a fireball. Then the next round you decide you want to cast a slow. That leaves two cake tins left. You didn't have to decide ahead of time which cakes you were gonna have on hand. You pay for the cakes retroactively, kind of. But you only know the recipes for fireball and slow. Nothing else in that spell level.

That's sorcerers.

If that seems like a fucking stupid and arbitrary way to do things, that's Vancian magic. It's been a sacred cow of D&D since the seventies. It fucking sucks, but any D&D-like that doesn't use Vancian magic won't sell copies. Anyway, let us know if you still don't understand.

>>3953550
Kingmaker is just as good as Rogue Trader, it's just a different style of story. It's a low-fantasy fairy tale, rather than grimdank space opera.

>>3946627
You're metagaming and making assumptions. The characters in the story at that time do not have the benefit of metagaming or the luxury to just assume they're right about everything.

>>3956934
Maybe it gets better as the game goes on but I couldn't develop attachment to any of the characters in Kingmaker or even to my own character. I just got bored and realized I was wasting my time since I wasn't getting anything out of it, I'd rather keep playing PF with online parties. The game has great reviews online so I conclude it just wasn't for me, which is fine.

My biggest gripe with Kingmaker is the gameplay though, I've slogged through sub-par writing in the past if the gameplay was fun but every fight was either piss-easy or impossible without figuring out the buffs and spells to put in beforehand, in Rogue Trader encounters were satisfying. The Kingdom management was OK though, that surprised me given that online reviews always mention it being an unnecessary chore.

>>3955429
Yes, I don't even like w40k lore but it still kept my interest. It does kind of get worse towards the end but maybe they will patch that out (encounters get too easy, companion quest endings are unsatisfying, end-game loot is useless).
I'd wait for DLCs as others have said, no point rushing in so close to completion.

>>3956759
low effort, try harder

>>3956933
>It fucking sucks
What would you change? If you want more than magic school distinctions (so D&D/Path arcane, nature divine spellbook difference), you'd need to change up how much access, and what type of access different casters have to different spells of the same school. You can have a sorcerer and a wizard if they access their spells differently, but if it's just spellbooks then both would be wizards (they also use different attributes, but that feels extremely secondary). A point might be that you don't need such distinctions and that there is class-bloat, but if we want to have more than three caster classes, you'd want some different access. I don't think many would be happy tracking MP, most players I know don't track arrows, but they do track their spells and spell-slots more often than not.

>>3956759
Kingmaker literally came out without an exe, shut the fuck up

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>>3956936
What are you talking about? Do you know what "metagaming" means?
In a metagame sense, the choice is irrelevant. The cultist leader will escape before anyone can act on the decision, and the Echo of Deskari will abduct either Eliandra or Katair. You get some good boy points or some lawful boy points from picking the dialogue option, but besides that, there's no gameplay effect. Maybe there will be one in the future, since I'm presumably going to have to fight the Echo of Deskari at some point, but I don't know what it is yet.

>>3956960
>an actual lie
Ok.

>>3957612
https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/1734339901253160118/?ctp=2#c1734339901253175781

>>3957619
You think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and post lies in a community forum? By the way, it was Steam's fault, not Owlcat. That's the lie. That's the part you're omitting in order to tell the lie.

>>3956665
>I've played all three games right from launch, and I swear to whichever fucking god you choose that I never noticed any actual bugs.
I know a few in WotR.
>Animal Growth does not stack with the innate increase in animal size that non-horse animal companions get at either 4th or 7th level
>If a character can spontaneously cast a spell both as an arcane and divine spell, (e.g. levels in both stigmatized witch and oracle, with healing in both books), that spell only appears in the spellcasting interface once, making it the spell slots of the other spellbook unusable for it
>The description for the Metamagic (Selective Spell) feat says that "Spell that do not have [...] a duration of instantaneous do not benefit from this feat", even though they actually do
These are all still in the game.

>>3928600
>Why isn't woke when you have to eat lunch to maintain your biological processes? Metabolism is also a normal feature of biological evolution, so why are you picking and choosing? Are you not based enough to not need to eat, anons?

Why are you pretending to not understand things?

So I've only done Angel and Aeon paths in Wrath so far, with the True Aeon ending being peak kino.
Thinking I might go for the secret ending on whatever I play next, so what would you guys say is the most thematic mythic for that?

>>3958052
That's a little weird because I'm currently playing Wrath and I have characters in my party who should be affected by each of those bugs and I know for a certainty they are not. Animal Growth is working just fine. I have a mystic theurge and their cross-class spells are working just fine (for example protection from evil in both cleric and wiz spell slots).
I don't know about selective metamagic because I don't bother using it. If it is bugged in my game, I would never know, but nor would I consider it a particularly important bug.

>>3958328
Probably Azata or Angel. Demon maybe. It's a little tricky to get the secret ending as a lich, though, just FYI.

>>3958442
>good aligned mythic paths rewarding the villain for all the evil shit she did
>most thematic

>>3958442
Huh, didn't know it was harder as Lich. Good to know, thanks. I can definitely see the Demon angle.

>>3925366
>on normal
why would you play anything below core unless you're a drooling retard

Owlcat games are unbalanced corny shit
literally unintentional Baldurs Gate parody but woke

>>3958539
>why would you play anything below core unless you're a drooling retard
NTA but “normal” should always, by definition, be the default and intended difficulty that the game is designed and balanced for. However, modern devs are stupid faggots.

>>3958558
Is that really the best you guys can manage these days? Shit, if even you guys are getting bored of it, maybe it's time to give it a rest.

>>3958539
Normal is the normal mode, anon. That's why it's called normal. Absolutely no one here is impressed. You may leave.

>>3958441
>Animal Growth is working just fine.
Are you sure? Are you casting it on an animal other than a horse? Are you experimentally verifying that the animal is now huge sized, e.g. by casting Enlarge on the rider? It's broken on my machine, and all the discussion I've seen suggests it's broken for everyone else too.
>protection from evil in both cleric and wiz spell slots
Spontaneous spellcasters. Sorcerer/Oracle, not Wizard/Cleric. I noticed it trying to turn Ember into a Mystic Theurge.
>I don't know about selective metamagic because I don't bother using it.
Yeah, it doesn't sound particularly impressive based on the description. Selective Grease is amazingly good, but you'd never guess it actually works if you didn't take the metamagic feat.

>>3959421
Are YOU sure? Because it's affecting my Hunter's smilodon just fine. Increases the damage on natural attacks, correctly adjusts to-hit and AC and everything.
>Spontaneous spellcasters.
Ahhhh... the goalpost shifting... Well, I confess I have never multiclassed Daeren or Ember, because that's an insanely fucking stupid thing to do. If you're using ToyBox to gestalt them, then you need to talk to the ToyBox people about that. Although since I haven't tried multiclassing any spontaneous casters because it's fucking stupid to do so, that does mean I can't confirm or deny whether there's any bugs in their known spells display on your hotbar. And since, in the grand scheme of things, visual display confusion for the one person on this blue Earth stupid enough to multiclass a spontaneous spellcaster and pick duplicate spells known is annoying but not really significant, I could concede that it might be bugged... while asserting that if it's actually true then you fucking deserve far worse than that.
>Yeah, it doesn't sound particularly impressive based on the description.
It doesn't. Selective protecting your allies from your Stinking Cloud or Cloudkill isn't game breaking (all demons are immune to poison and communal delay poison is a level 3 spell with an hour duration...), or even a significant impact on gameplay at fucking all, really. It's already a completely fucking wasted feat slot if you take it. Giving the feat a little more functionality than it has in tabletop isn't exactly clutching my pearls. And, again, I can't confirm or deny whether it's bugged in your game because I've never used that in my game, since, again, it's a fucking wasted feat and you'd be stupid to take it.

So what exactly do we have going on here? It seems like you're the problem in all of these issues. Glad we got that sorted out for ya.

>>3959851
I have seen some pretty insane fanboyism on this board, but I think this takes the cake

>>3959908
No one cares if you don't like the game anon. You aren't forced to spread lies, misinformation and falsehoods, either. So you literally have no valid reason to be here. You're just a shitty person, and you're getting upset that no one's giving you what you really came here for: any kind of interaction that you can pervert into believing is positive towards you somehow.

>>3959851
Ah, so it was just bait all along. Carry on.

>>3960033
>No one cares if you don't like the game anon. You aren't forced to spread lies, misinformation and falsehoods, either. So you literally have no valid reason to be here. You're just a shitty person, and you're getting upset that no one's giving you what you really came here for: any kind of interaction that you can pervert into believing is positive towards you somehow.
This is the funny part. You're so far up your ass, that you're seething like this at someone who has played and enjoyed multiple Owlcat games, out of a misplaced sense of defending their "e-honor".

>>3959851
>I have never multiclassed Daeren or Ember, because that's an insanely fucking stupid thing to do
lol what a retard

>>3925314
Km had soul, wotr is trash. Until act 3 it's serviceable, but it xollapses after.
>>3925317
Senior devs greenlit this

>>3960295
Nah. I love Kingmaker. There's just nothing wrong with Wrath, though. It keeps the momentum all the way through to the end, if you think Kingmaker did. It has base-building / kingdom management moments in between map exploring and episodic adventures. And that pacing isn't different between acts. Maybe you felt Alushinyrra was too different compared to map crawling, but Alushinyrra was also definitely not a collapse, it was more like a long, dense dungeon.
KM didn't have more soul, it was just a different mood. KM is a cottage-core fairy tale. Wrath is epic low-fantasy. Which one you prefer is just personal opinion, but one isn't better than the other just because you were in the mood for KM when you played it.

>>3925317
It's literally the best act in the game. It and act 1. Act 3 is bad, but act 5 is just awful.

>>3961288
It’s literally the worst act in the game
>t. finished game once, tried playing it a second time, just hard dropped it at act 4 cause I wasn’t doing that shit again

>>3961398
Enjoy your crusade slop I guess

>>3960227
But you're the one advocating for multiclassing them?
>>3960083
Oh, you're that guy...
>>3960064
Yeahhhhh.... you're that guy...
>>3959908
Yeahhhh.... yeah you are.

>>3961602
You are quoting at a minimum two different people, possibly three or four.
>t. one of those anons

>>3961618
Sure.

Can someone explain how, at level 5, my Kineticist is not getting any burn for extended range Water Blast? I have no gather power turned on.
Everything that should cost 1 burn is not costing any. Is there a hidden burn cost reduction in the class I'm not aware of?

>>3925325
Why try and redeem something inherently shitty?

>>3925314
What is even the point of assassin guilds? You destroy your community and stability monthly in exchange for a flat espionage bonus, and the build point bonus can only be realized if you condoned banditry. It seems really counter-intuitive to build buildings that only have notable benefits when the region is near-collapse instead of building buildings that make the region functional to begin with. It’s a really strange decision choice.

>>3962693
>You destroy your community and stability monthly in exchange for a flat espionage bonus
Days without anti-Semitism on /vrpg/: 0

>>3962701
Kek

>>3962522
Are you suuuuuure that you have no gather power turned on, that extended range is turned on, and that extended range has a burn cost?

>>3962976
Yes, yes and yes.
I found out where the reduction was coming from.
At level 5 (and some later levels) all infusions get -1 burn cost.
It just doesn't show on class progression.

>>3963006
Then where did you find out? The tabletop SRD?

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Crushing Burden seems better... Am I wrong?

>>3963343
I'd take the other one. Nullifying seems pretty good, and I don't like the idea of self-damage from vicious.

>>3963155
About 30 minutes of searching google.

>>3963343
Vicious is bad enchantment, Axiomatic is the same damage per hit but without hurting yourself. Fatigue / Exhaustion doesn't work on undead or constructs, but Axiomatic basically will affect every enemy in the game. The primary benefit of inflicting Exhaustion is the Dex penalty which results in lower AC on the target. Which the Wrecking Devil already does, but isn't limited by the target's type at all.
The margin between the two of those is actually between the Cold Iron material and Good-aligned quality, and the Nullifying enchantment.
At that level, nothing really matters. You've already beaten the game. He has +50 to-hit, dude. Worrying about +1 average damage per hit at that level is fucking stupid. What actually matters for you right now is dispelling buffs from enemies and dealing with Regill's 39 AC he's sitting on.

>>3964302
It takes you 30 minutes to search google? Dude. Check the SRDs.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/ALTERNATIVE-RULE-SYSTEMS/PAIZO-RULES-SYSTEMS/OCCULT-ADVENTURES/OCCULT-CLASSES/KINETICIST/#TOC-Infusion-Specialization-Ex-
It's called Infusion Specialization (Ex), it's right there.

>>3964406
My issue is mainly that it does way less damage. The Viscous 1d6 damage hasn't been much of an issue so far. Good-aligned is a buff.

Maybe it's better in practice. I guess I'll try it for a while.

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The deadly flaw is with the diva developers.

A normal developer like Bioware act like this:
>Dear NeverWinterNight fans, we are about to work on a new scifi series called Mass Effect, but don't you worry, we got your back, we will still develop medieval fantasy genre games for you down the line.

Owlcat is more like
>Hey faggots, thanks for playing, goodbye. We are trying something new. You better appreciate our new stuff because you're not getting anything else.

>>3964459
"Way less damage"... look at how much damage vicious actually does. Then look at how much damage Axiomatic does. Because you haven't looked at them, have you. No you have not. Go look at them and read them.
Being good-aligned only matters if the target has DR that is penetrated by good-aligned. And you can bestow that property with a low level cleric buff, by the way.
But, again, those two weapons are basically identical. One is slightly more convenient at the cost of dealing 1d6 to you on every hit... You should add up how many times a TWF full BAB warrior like Regill will be hitting things over the course of the next hour of combat that you have left in the game.

>>3964467
As has been discussed further up the thread, no one can make more PF1e content ever again.

And no, it isn't Paizo's fault. It's Hasbro and WotC who pulled out the legal assassination to kill it. So if you wanna be a little hateful bitch, at least try not to be an ignorant, stupid one. Aim your hatred at the industry's most infamous shit nozzle: D&D.

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>>3964579
>It's Hasbro and WotC who pulled out the legal assassination to kill it.
You are behind on the news.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2025/04/everything-but-the-beholders-dd-updates-core-rules-sticks-with-cc-license/

Pathfinder 1st edition and D&D 3,5 edition is now under creative commons.
WotC and Hasbro got buckbroken and surrendred.
Update your excuse.

>>3964630
You're naive.
No one will touch anything that used to be under the OGL for fear that Hasbro will just launch another such legal attack. Defending against it would cost money and video game developers are operating on tight enough margins as it is. They can't just spend millions to send a team of lawyers to the US to fight a bullshit lawsuit even if they win. And Hasbro knows that. They knew they'd lose the first bullshit attempt, too, but they still did it because it killed Paizo by prompting them to scramble to completely re-vamp 2e and sever all their active 1e contracts and licenses (including with Owlcat).
So after that debacle, they have officially declared 1e "complete"... by which they mean "end of support". By which they mean they aren't licensing it out anymore. They are looking to either make 2.5e their flagship (not gonna happen, it's just fundamentally a poorly designed and un-fun game system), or they'll muddled through and come up with 3e in about five or eight years from now... if they're still a fucking company by then.
And Owlcat, for their part, are enjoying GW's patronage because Warhammer has basically never had an actual RPG developed in its universe at all, and it's something fans have been begging for for literally decades. Now that Rogue Trader showed it was possible and popular, Dark Heresy is hotly awaited and will no doubt be just as much a masterpiece. After that... Owlcat's next sword-and-sorcery foray, if they keep making RPGs in this style, is very likely to be Warhammer Fantasy. Not Pathfinder.
The game mechanics of Pathfinder 1e has ALWAYS BEEN under the OGL / creative commons. WotC didn't surrender, they knew they would lose the suit, that wasn't the point. The point was they cost Paizo millions to fight it. Millions that Paizo does NOT have to throw away, but Hasbro does.

I wasn't behind on the news, you were ill-informed and inexperienced in the ways of the world. Go back to eating your anime loli shit.

>>3964577
Oh I get it now, the vicious hammer shows the +2d6 damage it does in the "damage when equipped". The axiomatic hammer does not because that damage only happens on chaotic enemies (most enemies anyway). That's annoying.

Good-aligned is from Covenant of the Inheritor, so both weapons will get it. Yeah it's not very useful.

I just started Act 5 so I have more than an hour left.

Clearly Wrecking Devil is the best choice, thanks for telling me.

>>3964693
No, it's not the best choice. Axiomatic applies to literally everything relevant from where you are till the end game credits scene. Except for inquisitor Liotr, but like... you can kill him automatically with one hit whatever you're hitting him with. Let's be serious please.

>>3964711
Yeah... that's why I said the Axiomatic weapon is the best choice.

>>3964721
Oh, I forgot which one was named what.

im on act 4 in wotr and want to kill myself

>just run around the same annoying fucking map 200 times back and forth
who thought this was good game design?

>>3964630
You're a minority, nobody cares about Pathfinder, they care about Owlcat, CRPGs with continue for now with 40k until they get bored of that and drop it too

>>3964737
You can teleport to almost every place you need to visit more than once.

>>3928147
You must have not been around during 4e. Pathfinder 1e became the defacto "actual D&D" when it release because of how hard WotC dropped the ball.

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>>3937634
Man I searched her name to see all the articles she has made... jesus christ...

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>>3965049
>I realized I no longer wanted to be married to my husband while having sex with him.
>He was on top of me and his body just felt so heavy. For years, I’d shouldered his weight. Now I was literally being crushed by it. With each thrust, he seemed to push me deeper into the mattress. As it was, our bed had a permanent indentation in the middle of it, thanks to him.
>Those days, my husband spent almost every waking hour on our bed. He was unemployed. He got up around noon, took an hour-long shower, then climbed right back in between the sheets. He spent the rest of the afternoon and evening reading about conspiracy theories from the vantage point of our conjugal mattress.
lmao, which one of you guys was she writing about?

>>3928147
Oh my fucking god, when were you fucking born??? Do you even remember before Covid? Are you trying to do the whole gaslighting thing because you just found out that it's possible to lie on the internet so you're seeing how it works or something?

>>3964407
The Pathfinder video games do not always match the tabletop game. In fact they rarely do.

I was bored yesterday and pulled out the ember voice lines and made a voice copy thing on some site. I still got 1k characters left for today if someone wants her to say something.
https://vocaroo.com/1d0R9LcXOv5Y

Also here's the copy source if anybody wants to try it too, maybe do it better.
https://vocaroo.com/19O266imoi58

>>3965355
The ways in which the video games don't perfectly match the tabletop are not things like which level your burn costs get reduced. It's things like how does Fly work because these are not fully 3D environments with unlimited navigation like some kind of Skyrim with noclip turned on. It's not things like what level fighters get bonus feats. It's things like whether there's any divination spells other than true seeing... because there's no GM to tell you what answers you get from your commune spell that attempted to ask your god a specific question.

So you're being either disingenuous, ignorant or intentionally deceitful, there.

So i just dispelled the final boss and autoattacked her. Is this literally all tgere is to the game? You guys are cumming in your pants to this?

>>3964406
>Cold Iron material and Good-aligned quality
I'm not him, but I think those are from the holy symbol accessory that makes EVERY weapon within a radius act as good-aligned and cold iron.

>>3964649
A Warhammer Fantasy RPG sounds dope as fuck though

>>3965648
How long did it take you to get there? How many times did you restart?

>>3965738
I literally just downloaded a couple of save files

It looked like she had displacement or something so i just cast dispel and attacked physicalluly and it was over in a couple rounds

This game is seriously retarded. Its just stat bloat. Youre telling me the most evil and cunning whatever of demonpussy street is too retarded to even reapply buffs. This game is for mongoloids

>>3965597
It's also shit like >>3958052
You'd have to be mad to trust the tabletop ruleset to tell how the game will work

>>3965740
>I literally just downloaded a couple of save files
lol, lmao even