>>3965618
To some degree I can agree but I also found EXP to have potential to be played around with.
Fire Emblem games for example, forces you to decide which unit should be fed EXP. And absolutely not let Jagens take those away from you.

>>3965619
I'll admit that's a rare example of a game that does it right since it's technically a limited resource due to battles being do-or-die.

>>3965618
>Games should reward exploration, completion, and engaging with the mechanics, not grinding.
This is a significant part of what allows Zelda to be better than the entire RPG genre. It's a better realization of what RPGs ought to be doing that doesn't make the same mistakes.

>>3965618
>Games should reward exploration, completion, and engaging with the mechanics
Perhaps rewarded with some sort of… experience… points?

>>3965632
Equipment, abilities, party members, classes, items, literally anything beyond "This number makes these numbers go up". Take some notes from SaGa for example.

>>3965653
>abilities
>classes
What if there were some sort of arbitrary quantifiable unit to track progression towards these things?

>>3965618
Fighting enemies IS "engaging with the mechanics" you stupid nigger
Stop giving XP for combat and you just incentivize speedrun bullshit to skip encounters, aka not engaging with the mechanics

>>3965618
Mate, you haven't had to grind the SNES. Mind you "no grinding" doesn't mean "I can skip all combat except bosses".

if i remember correctly, Pillars of Eternity only gives exp for quests, filling in the map, and bestiary entries, so you can't grind respawning enemies for levels
and being a faux-d&d crpg, leveling gave you options to expand and refine your build rather than just being a direct power increase

>>3965657
Quests to find teachers, unlocking through story progression, skills being tied to weapons and equipment?

>>3965618
That's not a bad idea. I agree with you.

>>3965632
>>3965709
>"This number makes these numbers go up"
That's literally how video games work on a fundamental level, retard. What do you think happens in this hypothetical game where you get new shit by finishing quests or talking to the right NPCs? Under the hood it's all making a number go up, or giving you more ways to make enemy numbers go down. Any "innovation" you come up with is just going to accomplish the exact same thing as experience points but with extra steps
>b-but GRINDING!
You know you don't HAVE to have infinite random encounters or respawning enemies, right? The player is only going to be able to get as much XP as you let them, if you don't want your players grinding you can just literally make it impossible to do.

There's a reason why Chrono Cross is the only game to use its progression system. Reinventing the wheel just tends to leave you with a cart that can't go anywhere.

>>3965653
>Equipment, abilities, party members, classes, items
Depends on how you do it but those seem to be sidegrades (don't have to be to be fair), where lvl up is an upgrade.
Sidegrade is not always useful, upgrade is.
It may seem like the point but you swap "damage and hp inflation" to "Another 'reward' that I won't use".
Elden Ring has both. When I level up it's nice, when I find some incantation not for me it's like spitting in my face (incantation that is useful does feel good of course)

If you want to make those upgrades and you give me stronger and stronger equipment and abilities, the power curve would be out of control, unless there is only 1 way to play, I guess than it would make sense.

Only game that comes to my mind and has done upgrades without levels is Sekiro.

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>>3965618
whatever you say faggot keep away from my series then if you're this retarded

>>3965619
There's nothing wrong with giving Jagens some exp.

Maybe you could just play different genres of games from time to time instead?

>>3966098
>There's nothing wrong with giving Jagens some exp.
Yeah let's give Marcus all the EXP. Great advice.

>>3965619
>>3966098
>>3966170
>some
>all
overfeeding your jeigan is a noob trap
completely benching your jeigan in the earlygame is also a noob trap
anyone who's competent at playing Hector Hard Mode will tell you (correctly) that Marcus is one of the most important units in the game

>>3965659
>Stop giving XP for combat and you just incentivize speedrun bullshit to skip encounters, aka not engaging with the mechanics
>clever ways of handling an obstacle shouldn't be rewarded so I can grind like an MMORPG
Spergtastic argument.

>>3966061
>Disgaea
You are brown.

>>3965618
What is it with these "X is an outdated concept" mentioning core elements of the RPG genre? If you don't like RPGs just play a different type of game. Leave RPGs alone for those of us who enjoy these games.

>>3966490
>Leave RPGs alone for those of us who enjoy these games.
I absolutely refuse to. RPGs have trashed the quality of gameplay of most turn based games so that they cater to tards. This needs to be fixed.

>>3966490
We can't just have threads. Every thread must be lousy rage bait.

>>3966210
I just need him there to act as a barrier/funnel to get enemies to attack the units I actually plan to use.

>>3966682
If you genuinely want to change opinions, consider starting an OP with reasoning behind claims, rather than simply making inflammatory statements.
>EXP is an outdated and obsolete mechanic.
Why?
>Games should reward exploration, completion, and engaging with the mechanics, not grinding.
Why?
Etc.