>Devil Summoner
I have a sort of love/hate relationship with this game. The sorta noir/detective setting was a nice change, and it was the first in the series to have full screen dungeon exploring which enchances the immersion. There are some great dungeons too that don't hesitate to use all sort of traps and even new things like doors which act as one way teleporter (but only from one side of the door). But they also introduced the demon loyalty system and most cases, at least until the end game, it can be hard or even to have your demons fully listen to you. It's also impossible to revisit (most) dungeons which makes it harder to create a good team. But, outside of the end game where the battles drag on forever, balance is good too.
Note that I'm always talking about the original versions of those games so if you played the PSP version which makes things like loyatly raising easier, your experience won't align with mine.

>SMT
The story is good, and it brought the ability to use Chaos demons as well as the entire Chaos/Law choices you have to make which alter the story; but other than that the game just felt like a lesser retread of MT2 to me. It didn't help that in the end game, if you're going with the Law path, you have to actively fight against the game so you don't end up softlocked; and the encounter rate in the final dungeon is beyond insane (like 3 fights every step 3 steps in a row sort of thing). I'm still willing to give this game another chance but next time I'll play the PSX version which hopefully fixes some of the bugs.

>SMT2
This one feels even more of a lesser retread of MT2, except for, again, a couple of nice story beats like actually seeing the Thousand Year Kingdom for yourself (well, sort of anyway). It also has the most bland combat in the series, I hardly ever felt the need not to use auto-battle, I was just bored almost through the entire game. The final dungeon was good though.

>>3973111

>you have to actively fight against the game so you don't end up softlocked
I assume you mean the Haniel bug where you go to get baptized to lock into the Law path yet he attacks you anyways?
If so, then yes the PSX version does not have that, and the Orden patch has a bugfix for the Aeon Genesis SNES/SFC translation

I only played KMT rather than MT1. It was pretty decent, about like playing The Bard's Tale. Because it has automap it's nothing like playing actual MT1.

I've played both KMT2 and MT2. The sound chip in MT2 is fucking amazing but I found both versions punishingly boring and dropped them. The music in KMT2 sucks shit.

SMT is a fine game with an instantly haunting and interesting atmosphere. People bitch about the encounter rate but on all the SNES games estoma totally shuts off random encounters, meaning as soon as you get a few negotiations done you can just put away all your demons besides the low level estoma caster to save magnetite go directly to the bosses.

SMT2 has an interesting high concept Hollywood sci-fi story mixed with MT fundamentals.

SMT If... is just a spinoff with the same system as 2. The basic scenario is pretty crap but the Akira route is the only time SNES SMT had any challenge at all. People bitch about the World of Sloth and it's not a good idea or anything, but use estoma and blast through it walking back and forth for 4-5 minutes. 4-5 minutes of jack shit nothing is not good game design but I'll live.

Nocturne has a great unique minimalist vibe.

SMT4 is a terribly deformed game that obviously wasn't launched finished, but I do really enjoy what they managed to cobble together despite how crippled it is by bad encounter design and fucked pacing. 4A polishes the combat design to the best version of any MT game I've played (I haven't played 5 or 5V). The story is FUBAR and annoying.

I don't do rankings

>>3974452
*and Soul Hackers was a mediocre spinoff with no interesting properties

Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2 are underappreciated gems. They need love. They need remasters or full blown remakes.

The story, the soundtracks to both games, the gameplay, it's all phenomenal.

>>3974393
I meant in the Cathedral if you're Law and kill too many Law demons you'll turn Chaos and be completely softlocked

>>3974452
I only mentionned the originals in the OP but I also played Kyuuyaku and while they are indeed downgrades (outside of automapping, the only upgrade is the extra content which is nothing special and so not worth it; that and game mechanics are better explained in game) but some of the areas layout are almost completely different in 1 to the point that I consider it worth playing for someone who liked the original.

>I found both versions punishingly boring
There are plenty of ways to break MT2. I didn't mention it as a negative because it's the sort of things not everyone will figure out by themselves on a first playthrough, or if they do it's gonna take them a while. Once you know these things the game becomes a joke. Kyuuyaku is also a bit easier if only because it lets you carry more items.

>eople bitch about the encounter rate but on all the SNES games estoma totally shuts off random encounters
Well yeah but that's the thing, I don't like using Estoma for anything other than quick backtracking

>SMT If... is just a spinoff with the same system as 2.
Like I said it brought the unability for the back row to do physical attacks and as a result, gave more important to Extra attacks. This isn't negligeable as it completely changes the combat dynamic.

>>3974490
Modern versions would just make things worse

>>3974525
>I meant in the Cathedral if you're Law and kill too many Law demons you'll turn Chaos and be completely softlocked
That is not possible. I have never in my 14 playthroughs of SMT1 ever been softlocked like that. When you get to the cathedral you are locked into whatever route you're at. The baptism is an optional step for Chaos (most people don't even know about the Gaia baptism) but for Law it isn't, because Law's progression *is* the baptism. And the baptism is really only to lock your alignment, because the only important decision is killing Haniel, Echidna, or both.

And when you get baptized, your alignment is now permanently 0000 or 9999 and no amount of demon killing or alignment shifts will ever change that. So this to me just seems to be what you *think* will happen and it just seems like Resident Evil Syndrome where you are imagining things that the game cannot actually do. Please show pictures as proof of who in the Cathedral won't let you progress because I am very curious and I am always working to add more REAL content to my notes and not stuff you made up in your head.

>>3974674
And so we're clear skipping Chaos' baptism does not mean you can get 'softlocked' form alignement shifts. The baptism is purely for locking in before the cathedral. Once you're in the cathedral, it doesn't matter if you got the baptism or not, whatever choice you made between Haniel/Echidna is going to be the rest of the adventure whether you like it or not.

What a dogshit thread
Kill yourself OP

>>3974679
Also while I'm at it killing demons for alignment is probably the slowest and worst way to do it. I'm not convinced it even does that in this game because I've never seen it happen.
The best way to do it in unironically to spam the churches for Mesian or Gaian factions, if you get poisoned or paralysed this is even better because you can just heal 1hp and not the status, and that's another alignment shift. Just keep doing that, and you can fix yourself at any point.

>>3974525
"Punishingly boring" doesn't mean difficult, it means really boring

>>3974674
>14 playthroughs of SMT1
Damn, I thought something was wrong with me because I played it to completion around 6 times. I think it's time I do another playthrough.
>>3974689
Yeah, that's a much faster way to grind points, though of course the best way to change alignment is through story choices, but they're limited.

Omg! I love SMT games! Shin Megami Tensai Persona 5 and Shin Megami Tensai Persona 4 are the best in the series! I love how I get to hang out with my friends and listen to cool hip music! I cant wait to move to Japan and make friends with others! Maybe we will even take a trip to the beach!!! I haven’t played the other SMT games as they don’t look very good. And video I seen the music is not welcoming. I never tried Shin Megami Tensai Persona 3 as it doesn’t look very good or seem like a good slice of life like Shin Megami Tensai Persona 5 is. Time to go steal some more hearts!

Is SMT V: Vengeance worth picking up if I've never played an SMT game before? Steam has it for 65% off.

>>3975501
Persona is smt but made better. Same combat and better dungeons and an actual story.
>>3978481
No. It is a generic jrpg with shit dungeons, so nothing like smt.

>>3978481
Absolutely, it has some of the best combat in the series. But it differs from other SMT games in that you mainly explore overworld areas and there isn't proper dungeon-crawling.

>>3974689
>Also while I'm at it killing demons for alignment is probably the slowest and worst way to do it. I'm not convinced it even does that in this game because I've never seen it happen.
When I played SMT1 on the SFC I had to abuse savestates because randomly after battles my max alignment law character would just switch to max alignment chaos for no reason. im fairly certain theres a value overflow bug at least with my rom because I havent seen it mentioned anywhere.

>>3974393
It wasn't a bug in the original. It (and others) are introduced by that shitty fantranslation.
I thought this was common knowledge at this point.

>>3979625
No, that's just Atlus showing their anti-law bias.

File: Shin Megami Tensei (Japan).png (7.3 KB)

Has anyone knowledgeable played the Mega CD version of SMT(1)?

I'm trying it and I feel like they made the game WAAAAYYYY easier. The first sign is that I'm getting a shit ton more money from encounters. Then, I also believe that I'm dealing more damage and recieving less. I just got to the "boss" fight and it was a giant nothing burder, I got hit for like what, 10 damage total? I brought 2 demons with me but I didn't need them in fact I haven't felt the need to summon demons since the start of the game.
Look I know I'm familiar with the game by now so things might seem easier but there has to be more to it than that, this is just uncanny. The thing is I don't see anything about this documented anywhere, not even on that Japanese wiki which usually has tons of info on different versions. It can't be just me?

>>3974674
Here is the source

https://w.atwiki.jp/shinmegamitensei1/pages/301.html

>Note that once you've entered the NEUTRAL route and become CHAOS, you cannot revert to the NEUTRAL attribute.
>Note that once you've entered the LAW route and become CHAOS, you cannot revert to the LAW attribute.

This is from a JPN website so no translation shenanigans are involved

>>3983783
Who knew that fAtlus' anti-law/pro-chaos bias extended as far back as 1992?

>>3983783
When it says 'attributes' it is referring to alignment.
Alignment and the ending route are separate.
But what I'm more interested is the line below that:

>If you proceed as described below, you will get the CHAOS ending even though the LAW route is confirmed. (No great flood will occur.)

>Defeat Echidna at Tokyo Disneyland.
>Increase the protagonist's attribute value to "224" or higher.
>In Shinagawa, I agreed to Haniel's request for cooperation and had a bridge built to the cathedral.
>The protagonist's attribute is CHAOS, with an attribute value of "224 - 80 = 144".
>Since the route has already been determined, it's not possible to set it to the LAW attribute.
>Go from Cathedral Row to the center of the cathedral.
>Even though no great flood has occurred, you will find yourself in a conversation with the Chaos Hero.
>Conquer the Cathedral.

So in that one specific outcome it seems you can get the chaos route despite choosing law.
But again, this is stuff before the cathedral that decides this and you can't change it once it's decided.

I put this part here >>3974679
to try to clarify this but I'll go ahead and say it again

Even if you can get another alignment it doesn't change the route once it's decided.

>>3983862
That's not what the site claims
>so it may be impossible to clear the stage in some cases.

>>3983886
There is a possibility if the great flood doesn't happen. Then you can't get to Ravana/Vishnu which is also a necessary step for progression, so if that thing about getting the chaos route even though you should have gotten the law route is true, and if the great flood doesn't happen... then that would be a gamebreaking bug for sure.

Never played if/mt/mt2 yet but the old mainline games suck as games, devil summoner games weren't much better just not as broken. Nocturne was the first time they had properly fleshed out systems imo

>>3983944
>i've never played them but i'm going to call them bad anyway
You need to go back.

>>3983944
Utterly trash opinion.

>>3973108
>hating on 2
What fucking trash taste.

>>3983944
>Nocturne was the first time they had properly fleshed out systems imo
Nocturne has good combat but basically every other aspect of it was a huge downgrade from 2. The world is so boring compared to how it was in 2 and while you can wave that away in favor of atmosphere, the piss sorry reasons and characters were just utterly inexcusable

File: Shin Megami Tensei II (Japan) (Rev 1).png (18.6 KB)

>>3986837
I don't hate, it's just the worst MT game, but the worst MT is still a good game (I even played it twice, SFC and PSX). There is so much in that game that is a retread of MT2 and SMT1 that the game comes off as a "best off" take on these two games, but that's precisely what makes it so derivative and unoriginal compared to the others. Every other game in the series new and different things, substantially, except SMT2. For instance it's the only one which has the exact same LAW/CHAOS story routes system as SMT1, but unlike SMT1 where the choices the player has to make which influences his alignment felt organic, in SMT2 they feel incredibly obvious and forced to the point the game even suddenly forces a questionnaire out of nowhere (the wall face thingy) because otherwise they didn't have enough that matters in the story in that regard. The way the overworld layout works is extremely similar to MT2, the whole thing with the demon world and how to reach it is a direct copy of MT2, even some dungeon layouts are directly inspired by the previous games like the Watchtover / Mithras' tower etc
The only things it has which are really new are two gameplay mechanics, which admitedly are great things that I like and which made the series better: demons inheriting spells when fusing, and some fights having more than one type of demons at once (SMT1 also did this but only specific boss fights, SMT2 does it with random encounters)

>>3973108

Gonna start a censorship mod that changes all the Abrahamic religion references to standard western rpg equivalents. Which one would piss off the edgetroons the most? I'm guessing Innocent Sin.

>>3974682
indeed. i can't believe people care about this shit.

>>3973108
Is there even one single SMT game thats not biased against the Law?

>>3992741
No and rightfully so. Law is supposed to be the obvious wrong choice where you're siding with the big bad. The idea that they ever intended for all 3 alignments (or even just law and chaos) to be rationally equal to each other is dumb and one of the reasons that games post 3 started sucking in terms of alignment is them having to misrepresent what chaos originally was about to make it equally as bad as Law.

>>3974490
Though very different from mainline SMT they are one of my go-to suggestions for "First SMT game", if someone is particularly masochistic I tell them to play Strange Journey or Soul Hackers.

>>3993459
Is there an SMT game where a free-spirited good guy (obvious chaos rep) and a stick-up-the-ass violent dictator (obvious law rep) get caught up in the overlap of Good=Law and Evil=Chaos and are dragged kicking and screaming to the opposite side?

>>3995662
The law rep in 5 is a bit unexpected I guess.

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