PoE 2

Vtm:R

>>3982188
Planescape Torment
Arcanum
NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer
Shadowrun Hong Kong

>>3982193
I played Hong Kong when it came out and it sucked ass. I'll finally check the others, since I was too young to play them when they were new.

>>3982188
Persona 4

>>3982188
read a book instead

>>3982212
Video games are superior medium to books, it's just that video games are in the hands of psychos and faggots.

>>3982188
Betrayal at Krondor

>>3982195
Don't bother, I can already tell from your shit taste you're not going to enjoy the others.

>>3982188
>it's a NWN mod
A Dance With Rogues.
and https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/module/gate-silver-key-old-version

>>3982188
it's just motb and pst, there really hasn't been any movement since. I'm fond of AoD and Disco Elysium too

>>3982212
I swear the people that say this don't read books because they've romanticized them way too much, books don't have drastically better writing than well written games, nor do movies. it's the same shit where there's 99% dogshit slop and a few gems, books have just accumulated more gems because of time. I say this as someone that's spend more time with books than any other artistic medium

>>3982197
Unironically this. Persona 3 and 4 have an amazing atmosphere.

>>3982264
I was being sincere. For example the way the Izanagi/Izanami allegory with Dojima and his wife works was light years past most videogame writing. I don't have that kind of appreciation for 3.

>>3982189
All of their games has dogshit writing.

>>3982242
Demon heart was fine too until they moved to dumb slideshow novel.

File: the-legend-of-heroes-trails-in-the-sky-gallery-1440x3088-v0-cgvkax735f871 (1).png (1.7 MB)

I'd say the first three Trails games have the best story, it's just a shame about the other eleven.

>>3982229
People are allowed to not like things you like anon

>>3982188
Lost Odyssey

SMT: Strange Journey's story is somewhat basic, but its presentation is top notch. Compared to a lot of RPGs, there's not too many other games that marry story, atmosphere, and mechanics to a similar degree.

Although commonly played, FF7 and FF6 both have interesting stories. FF6 does suffer from being on an early console that has size constraints, and FF7 can get a little convoluted, but both could be considered the pinnacle of the series, with maybe FFX's story coming close.

One thing a lot of people probably won't mention is that MMOs that have been going for over a decade usually have a very developed world that can be interesting to immerse yourself in. FFXI/XIV, WoW, EVE Online, all of them are something you could really dig into and learn about all sorts of interesting things that happened through their histories.

>>3982188
>the absolute best written RPGs in existence
>Planescape: Torment
>Mass Effect 1
>KotOR I and II
>VtM:Bloodlines
>Mass Effect 2 and 3
After this point new suggestions are stretching it but technically can fit in when strictly adhering to its writing quality and nothing else:
>Cyberpunk 2077 but never install the DLC and stick only to the main story and a couple of the sidequests
>Witcher 2
>Star Wars the Old Republic but none of its expansions or later content updates, only the vanilla experience (its an MMO technically though)

>>3982809
>KotOR I
8/10 bait

>>3982188
Disco Elysium.

>>3982832
Name a better rpg than KotOR I that I haven't named. Closest thing is Dragon Age, which I probably should've included the first two in my list, probably just under Mass Effect 2 and 3.

>>3982907
I get saying you like Kotor because you want to run around with a light saber and chop stuff up, but praising it for its writing is completely asinine
You're serious, aren't you? I thought this was clever bait. This fucking board

>>3982919
Most people who praise the writing are really praising the plot twist, because it's at least a little interesting.

>>3982919
>Did not offer a game with better writing that wasn't included already in my list

>>3982809
So you judge a game's writing entirely by the dialogue?

>>3982922
What kind of question is that? Is this a thread for how a game is written or how a game's narrative is designed?

>>3982920
mfw Koveras is really Sarevok in disguise

>>3982923
>I'm in the mood for some GOOD ASS STORY
Dialogue actually isn't very interesting in most RPGs that don't have interesting characters, especially the ones you listed like MEs and KotOR I where it's just shot reverse shot fake cinematic engagement. I'd put Alpha Protocol dialogue over all the MEs, because the characters are really shit in Bioware games.

>>3982924
Yeah, that was dumb, because who cares about Sarevok, he's not compelling in the least, just a Kurgan clone.
Having your own character be the bad guy is an interesting twist in an RPG. I'm sure it hits different for the countless people who played it while spoiled.

>>3982926
You're actually close to being right in that its all about the characters, though actual writing quality in their dialogue (and any descriptive text) has to flow well and be interesting along the way, depending on how the game is consumed (more reading like Torment vs more listening to VA like Mass Effect).

Since you've said that you dislike Mass Effect and KotOR's characters I'd invite you to give the thread some examples of characters and stories you do like, though citing Alpha Protocol above Mass Effect feels like some real bait.

>>3982930
I've already dropped my rec
>>3982218

>>3982951
Its more like a visual novel than an RPG as far as I remember, but okay.

>>3982953
Memory's a fragile thing apparently. Drink a lot?

>>3982970
Let this be a Betrayal at Krondor thread then, to recall old games forgotten. Tell us your favorite parts of it.

>>3982188
Baldur's Gate 2, Shadows of Amn + Throne of Bhaal
FFIX

>>3982989
FP exploration, interesting characters, word puzzle chests, world building based on a set of novels, dungeon crawling, tactical combat. rotating party roster, serviceable prose. Worst part is the awful digitized developers in costume as character sprites and I wasn't a fan of the battlefield perspective. You should play it.

>>3982188
Xenogears

>>3982263
Absolutely, books like Brothers Karamazov, Faust, Divine Comedy or Moby Dick are extremely rare, maybe 30 or something, and games like Xenogears/Xenosaga are in no way inferior to these works, if not for their incomplete execution, which however is something that often happens in other media as well, such as Kafka's The Castle, one could argue whether being unfinished in that case can paradoxically amplify the themes of the work

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>>3982193
Shadowrun sucks ass dude.
>>3982192
The premise is very cool, and I don't hate it but I wouldn't consider it the best. It's a very specific character you're playing, and a lot of the things side characters do with him don't exactly make sense.
>>3982212
Don't worry people already suggested Planescape, and Arcanum.
>>3982809
Cyberpunk sucks. Kotor 2 sucks. Mass Effect 3 sucks, and 2 is slop.

>>3982876
Boring commie slop where you wander around listening to gay communists talk about how you should be a gay communist in various stupid voices.

>>3982188
Kenshi. Though you have to want to be a bit of a archeologist, and find out what happened to this strange place. System Shock 1, and 2 if you want something a bit more traditionally told. KCD, just don't play the second one. Henry dies of dysentery on the way to deliver that letter, the gay doppleganger is nothing like him.

>>3983024
I did play it but what I played doesn't sound at all like what you're describing.

Also, I mean your favorite story parts. A favorite character or scene, something related to the OP's post about story specifically.

>>3983052
Your opinions are stupid and bad, it'd be better off if you don't share them

File: Lisa the pointless.png (957.8 KB)

Lisa the Pointless

>>3983056
NTA but most of the stuff he listed is objectively correct. You may have played Return to Krondor if you're remembering something else? I can barely remember that beyond it not being as good as Betrayal.

BaK's is literal good writing rather than good story. It's got very competent '90s fantasy novel writing, like early Wheel of Time. It doesn't have brilliant allegory or poignant themes or foiling or something, but it's got good evocative descriptions of a wedge of cheese or a whetstone.

>>3983056
I think you're confused then, because that's the game.
I don't like spoiling games in recommendation threads, I listed those elements to make you realize you don't remember the game correctly.

>>3983074
Oh shit, yeah its Return that I played, looking at the box art now that was definitely it.

File: FzwXN_SaMAAcwSH.jpg (47.8 KB)

>>3983024
>awful digitized developers in costume
While the graphics are from the 90s and it shows I like the developers in costume interpreting the characters. Want to see more of that.

>>3982189
Seconding Deadfire.
But Kingmaker and Rogue Trader are good, too. Wrath is an extraordinary game, and its writing is consistently extremely good. I just didn't have any "wow" moments while playing it where I felt like some particular passage of text was masterful. In Kingmaker, there's moments with companions like Harrim, Jaethal and Valerie where I really felt like their personal development was amazingly well done. In Rogue Trader, the sheer weight of the florid baroque / rococo styling was impressive.

>>3982919
God, shut the fuck up. Your kind if so fucking insufferable. No one is allowed to like anything you don't like, apparently, because you're such a fucking authority on everything. And of course it's all just trolling and bait or what the fuck ever your fellow infants are calling it in the nursery. Coping mechanisms for your crippling social dysfunction. You're so fucked up you literally cannot have a sincere or authentic experience for fear that someone else might call it cringe or mock you for it.
Fucking kill that body. You aren't even really alive, much less a person.

Torment and Krondor are the only one. Everything else is generic fantasy/sci fi tropes copy pasted.

>>3983129
>and its writing is consistently extremely good
Except not. Games dead starting chapter 4. I read the adventure path and wth did owlcucks improve the laughably bad source. Nowadays they should be fantastic with all the ai help.

>>3983052
>>>>>>>>>Kenshi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>well written
What is it about this game that causes its fans to recommend it even when it's completely irrelevant to the conversation at hand? I understand it's meant to be a very good game, but you don't recommend Vivaldi when someone asks for Jazz just because he's good.

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>>3982327
I've found Trails incredibly bloated and annoying. It takes them an entire arc of multiple games to achieve what Suikoden would do in a single game.

File: f2.jpg (25.6 KB)

>>3982989
>Betrayal at Krondor
can you imagine being the fan of the novel series only to find out next two stories would be in video game format instead? at least they eventually got novelizations.

File: au1drs29v0e61.png (1.0 MB)

>>3983067
They are fact. Kotor 2 is purely trading on the name of the original. Cyberpunk is just LA with robot arms, it's awful. The writing is terrible. Shadowrun: Hong Kong is LA with orcs.

>>3983149
After the war the behemoths lost their purpose
Man became afraid of the destructive capabilities of its own creations

The irony is that it was their blind obedience and unquestioning loyalty that walked them down into that pit, entirely unresisting

The price of obedience.

>>3983102
>I like the developers in costume interpreting the characters
*monkey’s paw curls*
Baldur’s Gate 3, Halsin

>>3983131
I genuinely hope that you get help and that your life improves and you stop feeling this way, anon.

>>3983102
No, hand drawn sprites are vastly superior. Look at how ugly Lands of Lore 2 is compared to the first game. Digitization was incredibly lazy.

>>3983256
Lands of Lore 2 sucks because they put no effort in the art direction. Betrayal at Krondor looks good, so does Gabriel Knight 2 the Beast Within and it uses the same technique.

>>3983287
No.
Digitization was fucking lazy and gimped sprite work in the West.

File: simon_21.jpg (311.3 KB)

>>3983302
The fuck you saying retard, sprite work and digitalization developed alongside fine.

>>3983287
Westwood also did the best sprite work, inarguably outside Japan. Even setting aside the god of sprite art Rick Parks.

>>3982263
More well-written books come out in a year than do well-written video games.
And it should come as no surprise that
[a writer] [writing] [writing]
is going to have a higher hitrate than
[one or many sometimes-writers] [writing] [a modular component of a video game]
This latter part especially introduces ludonarrative hurdles that books simply don't have to deal with. The notion that all mediums have the same opportunity of writing outcome and some aren't just naturally more suited to producing better writing is about as ludicrous as suggesting Afghanis are just as good at making cars as Germans.

>>3983355
*rather than sprite work I mean pixel art

>>3983349
>The fuck you saying
I'm saying when devs moved from sprite work to digitization it was an aesthetically inferior product. Is this unclear?
The examples were already given, including Gabriel Knight, and I'll add Police Quest and Wing Commander. It was a common thing in the 90s, devs chasing tech.

I take it you feel differently?

>>3983356
The biggest difference is that games aren't a medium, they are an expressed system of play. Radically different than art.

File: gabriel.jpg (24.3 KB)

>>3983361
>it was an aesthetically inferior product
Hard disagree especially for Betrayal at Krondor and Gabriel Knight. In fact Gabriel Knight 2 is the best looking of the trilogy and the one most fondly remembered.

>>3983363
Video games at the abstract are a storytelling medium the same way books and film are, and they can be used to tell stories or not, just like those other mediums. It's just that most games either don't bother to tell stories, like Pacman, or leave it to the player to interpret stories out of gameplay (so-called emergent storytelling), like Dwarf Fortress, or have "story" as a module of the engine that exists primarily to facilitate gameplay, like Ubisoft games, or decorate gameplay components in such a way as to enable passive storytelling for flavor, like Fromsoft games. But there are also games that seek primarily to tell a story, and their other systems are designed in service of that, like Planescape Torment and Disco Elysium. Probably things like Persona and Blue Reflection too, although JRPG developers are really bad at designing interesting gameplay so maybe I'm considering them story-first by process of elimination.

The one advantage games have over other mediums is that their interactivity aids immersion, but this is offset heavily by having to coordinate all the systems of a video game that other mediums are just easier to produce high-quality stories in, which in itself is another biasing factor because people move toward what is easiest.

>>3983388
>Video games at the abstract are a storytelling medium the same way books and film are
No, that's an adding a narrative medium into a game, video or acting or the written word. It's extraneous, so you can't call games a "medium" in and of themselves. Video games aren't simply communication, they are play, interacting with systems of rules in a way where the player creates meaning.

>>3983200
>Kotor 2 is purely trading on the name of the original
But KOTOR 2 is generally considered to have the superior story and gameplay??

>>3983382
>Gabriel Knight 2 is the best looking of the trilogy
No, the first game is way better looking.

>>3983391
Nigger did you read anything I just said? Whether you're adding words to a game or a game to words is the distinction here.

The story is an important component of RPGs, however fixating on the writing in particular is tilting at windmills. Games were better when the story and writing were there and serviceable, but the more they focus on trying to have great writing, the further they stray from the overall point. It generally results in the writers crawling up their own asses and producing pompous drivel that detracts from the overall experience, rather than enhancing it. Virtually all cRPGs from the last 10-20 years suffer from this. When the writing is breaking immersion from cringe, it’s no longer serving its purpose.
I think that it stems from insecurity about “video games as art” and trying too hard. See also: the frequent comparisons to books, movies, etc.

>>3983394
Hard disagree.

>>3983398
I did read it, though it's a bit of a ramble. I prefer conciseness.
The "game" is what you get when you strip out those extraneous mediums.

>>3983411
It's okay to be wrong. The handcrafted backgrounds, character design, and graphic novel style of the first game is far better.

>>3983414
The first game is uglier, anon. All the fans care about is the second game, with good reason. Deal with it.

>>3983404
>cringe
Arbitrary mood swing derived from upbringing and potential mental illness that should never be used as a real criticism. It's on the same level as talking about "pacing".

>>3983423
>The first game is uglier
Nope.

>>3983412
No, what you get is gameplay, which is not what a video game is because video games are multimedia.

>>3983428
Yes.

>>3983356
>More well-written books come out in a year than do well-written video games.
Not at all, there's not even one good book a year.

>>3983363
braindead thing to say

>>3983447
>gameplay
You mean the way you play a game? Yes, that's called the game.
>>3983472
Whatever helps you cope.

>>3983480
>games aren't a medium, they are an expressed system of play, radically different than art
so this is incorrect in at least 3 ways.
1. what you described would qualify as a medium
2. what you described is not radically different from art as many installations are interactive
3. what you described does not cover the breadth of video games

>>3983480
>Yes, that's called the game.
it's not, video games are a gesamtkunstwerk, a game is the totality of its components.

>>3983482
1. No, a medium is an art term.
2. Wrong. Games are collaborative, the player has agency within the purpose of the game that goes beyond mere interpretation.
3. Examples.
>>3983485
No, a game is a system of play. I'm talking about the essential here. Games aren't art, they are much more than that.

See, play>art.

>>3983492
You are retarded and use words in ways nobody else in the world uses words.

>>3983503
Yeah, you've probably never encountered someone saying what I'm saying, so you can't grasp it because there aren't the training wheels of your presuppositions supporting it. It's not a perspective widely shared, but to call it retarded is very childish.
What's the "message" of chess? of tag? of Tetris? of D&D? What do you do when you play them? How does that change depending on your own skill at the game?
Be aware that what you answer will most likely be post-hoc rationalizations that simply reflect your worldview. They won't touch on the essential nature of games. Art is communication, games are more than that and a "game" that focuses on message is less of a game, its composite nature dilutes it. A game is something that you increase your mastery with, not to illuminate a worldview.

>>3983511
>you've probably never encountered someone saying what I'm saying
I didn't mean that as a compliment.

>>3983523
I know, you're a creature of consensus. Trust me, I fully get you.
See, I never respected Jack Thompson or thought video games caused violence, they aren't a medium or a message unless you gimp the game part, they are games, an essential and foundational aspect of humanity which we play with for the sake of play, to interact with those systems that comprise them.

>>3983492
Art can be collaborative you know

>>3983528
What skill does collaborative art test? How do you win in that contest?

>>3983529
>What skill does collaborative art test?
Depends on the art.
>How do you win in that contest?
Games being an interactive medium does not inherently stop them from being a medium and art.

File: Untitled.jpg (80.4 KB)

>>3982188
>if it's from the 80's
It isn't.
>from Japan
It definitely isn't.
>or if it's a NWN module
LMAO.
Pic related.

>>3983535
>Games being an interactive medium does not inherently stop them from being a medium and art.
Art is communication, games are games. Communicating with a game makes it less of a game because the message is prioritized over the game systems.
It's okay to like games, games are an essential foundation of humanity, separate from mere art.

Why does RPGs attract pseuds who think they are the smartest in the room? How do those pseuds can even claim that without proof?
Is it just their delusion of being smart?

>>3983548
Anon, art is any form of creative expression. Art can be communication, but it can also be beauty, skill, and emotions, all of which can be done without messaging.
A man does not paint a picturesque vista and plants a message in it. He can, but is by no means required.
'Games' both video and board are as much art as everything else. Hell, I'd argue anything we do with a degree of passion is art.

>>3983563
>beauty, skill, and emotions, all of which can be done without messaging
What the artist finds beautiful is a communication, skill is an appreciation of the craft, and emotions are surely communicable. The communication can be between the artist and himself even "This is what I see!".

But following this then games certainly aren't art, because they have a purpose, to be played and play is its own verb. Games are their own thing and they even predate art. You simply think art=good human activity, which is pretty much a vestigial Enlightenment value in the move to make art as an expression of humanistic excellence, but when it's applied so broadly it slips into meaninglessness. Don't drag games into that as well.

>>3983427
I'm not that anon but other than the subjectivity of what makes a person cringe, it is a valid feeling to have regarding the quality of media as it denotes the ability to tell when something is unworthy of consuming and integrating.

>>3983542
>or if it's a NWN module
>LMAO.
>Pic related.
Witcher 1 was literally an NWN module

>>3983588
>Witcher 1 was literally an NWN module
Not really, better to call it a NWN total conversion, I mean it added rhythm game combat to that engine.

>>3983598
Barely, once you look at all the game's cutscenes from that point of view though it starts to become really obvious

>>3983586
I am that anon. Much like obscenity, I’m old enough to know it when I see it.

>>3983551
i don't . i think the /vst/ autists are smorter than moi.
except the kommunists. they must be purged.

>>3983551
>Why does RPGs attract pseuds who think they are the smartest in the room?
The genre for insecure shut-ins. I can read a guide, grind, savescum, and have my power fantasy without any effort or competency.

Chads play competitive and team games. RPG nerds compete on who has the best "taste" in RPGs.

>>3983692
What if one does both? I've always both loved the power fantasy of RPGs (at least the ones from 15 years or so ago like Mass Effect and Dragon Age and one or two newer ones like Rogue Trader) and also enjoy (an admittedly few) competitive games that I'm good at.

>>3983492
>1. No, a medium is an art term.
no it isn't. a medium is a type of media, are instructional videos art? they're certainly media.
>>3983492
>2. Wrong. Games are collaborative, the player has agency within the purpose of the game that goes beyond mere interpretation.
so are books and film, you need to actually have people engage with art regardless of what it is.
>examples
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_(artwork)
>a game is a system of play
it doesn't have to be, nor have you made any groundwork to establish why that would be non-artistic.

>>3983548
>Communicating with a game makes it less of a game because the message is prioritized over the game systems.
except video games art not restricted to your narrow definition. a walking simulator is just as much a game as pong.

>>3983896
>a walking simulator is just as much a game as pong

>>3983904
>greentexting an on-its-face true statement without adding anything

>>3983920
>an on-its-face true statement

>>3982188
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Ring of Fates

>>3983588
Nobody mentioned Witcher 1, champ.

>>3982189
I actually agree with this.
The combat was meh, but the story was cool and there was a lot going on.

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>>3982188
Barkley: Shut up and Jam Gaiden

>>3982214
You are retarded.

>>3982214
Video games have higher potential for completeness. Books? They are just open to interpretation.

Can a game have good writing but a bad story? Is Morrowind a well-written game? Is it a good story?

>>3984889
>Can a game have good writing but a bad story?
Unfortunately "good writing" is vague as fuck so technically that could be the case, if you take writing to just mean the quality of the prose itself
Most people say that good writing includes the quality of the story though

>>3982188
Nethack.

>>3984889
>Can a game have good writing but a bad story?
Idk about a game specifically but Lolita has perfect writing and hollow story

>>3983157
>It takes them an entire arc of multiple games to achieve what Suikoden would do in a single game.
PREACH

>>3984938
>>3983157
I played Trails FC cause a friend kept insisting, and I would describe the writing as "way too anime": The problem for me wasn't the overarching story being slow, but just every scene being excruciating. Every single time a character says something, another 1-3 others have to chime in to agree
Also I pointed out to my friend how often the MCs go "a-are you sure it's okay for me to have this?" when getting a quest reward and he's had a fun time noticing that on all subsequent games in the series as well

>>3984939
Japanese people behave like that in real life too so it's not really an anime thing as much as it's a cultural difference.

>>3984966
Well then I'm grateful they usually don't spam their writing with it in the JRPGs I played, or in Ys games

What are twists you liked?
I enjoyed what Baten Kaitos did.

>Out of my way.
>I’m going to see my mother.
>*music kicks into high gear*

>>3984939
A huge draw of Trails series is revisiting areas after story advancements and reading what new things NPCs have to say. They're wordy games by default which was actually a problem due to sheer work script translation involved.

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>>3983149
>I understand it's meant to be a very good game
It's an RPG with no writing, with combat that plays itself while you watch, running on an aged relic of an engine that has a dedicated hotkey to rebuild the pathfinding map when it inevitably breaks. The game is entirely carried by its vibes.

>>3984889
>Can a game have good writing but a bad story? Is Morrowind a well-written game? Is it a good story?
Morrowind has good world building, and that's what the main quests seem to focus on.
The story was good, for a game like Morrowind.

>>3984889
Not an RPG, but Assassin's Creed: Black Flag has good writing on a sentence level but a disjointed and poorly-constructed plot.

>>3983157
Nah, but Suikoden writing is underwritten compared to Trails imo.
I'm not a fan of Trails either, I also thought Suikoden does better in terms of stakes and scale, but the character writing is lacking.

File: 1000077013.jpg (16.2 KB)

>>3983034

>>3985266
Problem is Trails' approach to character writing is quantity over quality. Suikoden at least gets to the point.

>>3983157
>>3985439
How in the FUCK has nothing capitalized on Suikoden's formula beyond clearly inferior Eiyuden Chronicles?

>>3985439
The original Trails trilogy didn't have too many characters, that only came later.

>>3983034
Xenogears falls off hard during the second half. Tons of exposition and extremely long dungeons.

Pokemon Red/Blue

>>3982193
Arcanum doesn't have a good story. It does have well written dialogues, but the game is 100% carried by the setting and atmosphere.
The story is a fairly standard "you're a chosen one, save the world from the big bad guy" with a few twists along the way.

>>3985497
Xenogears died so FF8 could get more funding, hence the stripped down disk 2. This is known.

>>3985952
>The story is a fairly standard "you're a chosen one, save the world from the big bad guy"
Testing if anyone beat it, huh?

>>3984889
Good writing is when something is written in an interesting way that rewards thinking about it further ("thought-provoking"). If something gets better in your mind the more you think about it, that's good writing. If the more you think about something, the worse it gets, that's bad writing. Unfortunately, it's mostly a meaningless term on the internet because there's no shared cultural canon of well-written things that form the basis of taste, and unlike in real life, you never know if you're talking to someone who should be listened to, so the most "good writing" tells you is that the person liked it.

>Can a game have good writing but a bad story
"Writing" is an umbrella term that encompasses all the written aspects of a work, so things like narrative, dialogue, prose, worldbuilding. I'd say something can be lacking in certain aspects but still be well-written as long as it doesn't attempt and fail at those aspects, and instead focuses on doing other aspects well.

>>3986074
>you never know if you're talking to someone who should be listened to
You need a quest compass?

>>3986081
Country flags would be nice.

>>3986074
>on the internet
>you never know if you're talking to someone who should be listened to
You should know by now. Assuming you're an adult.

>>3986089
Sometimes people will out themselves as autistic retards, but you need to give them a long post to engage with first.

>>3986098
Right.

>>3985964
>with a few twists along the way

>>3986098
>Sometimes people will out themselves as autistic retards, but you need to give them a long post to engage with first.
I love doing this

>>3986268
>>with a few twists along the way
The twists being that you aren't a chosen one in any way and you're just a dude on a blimp and the big bad just wants to give everyone a peaceful rest.

>>3986286
>haha, you thought it was a dead gnome but it's ACTUALLY a dead dwarf
>haha, ACTUALLY you're not the chosen one, we just called you the chosen one for most of the game
>haha, you thought your enemy was the bad guy, but ACTUALLY it was me, the bad guy, all along
>and my plan is ACTUALLY not to kill everyone, but to kill everyone because I'm a morally grey character, bet you didn't expect this one

>>3986342
>fairly standard
Doesn't sound standard to me a standard narrative doesn't play with player expectations.
:)

>>3986342
Oh, you haven't played it either. Makes sense.

>>3982263
You are out of your fucking mind if you think that the best written games are anywhere near the same level of quality as the best written books.

>>3984930
ok. what's the story?
>>3986074
this is AI bot posting.

>>3986465
i never beat it because it's a buggy ass game. but i trust in Virgil. if he sez i am the le chosen one, then i shall be. Deus Vult!

>>3982263
>books don't have drastically better writing than well written games
On average they absolutely do.

>>3982188
Baldurs Gate 1. Simple but masterly written.

>>3982188
I don't get how anyone sees a bearded man here. It's clearly two bears given eachother high fives.

>>3987431
Chat GPT Gate 1

>>3986559
Not an argument
>>3987348
Because books have 5000 years, videogames 50

>>3982188
I have played a game which had well written lines when read, but performed poorly by voice actors who may not have been right for the roles or given sufficient direction. There has also been performances that elevated writing, such as David Warner as Jon Irenicus from BG2.

The reason video games have bad writing is the people who make and play games now don't usually have much skill in understanding people, so their characters suck.

>>3987720
?

>>3987732
Do you understand people, wiseguy?

>>3988470
All men are islands, shouting at each other across seas of misunderstanding.

File: shygddt.jpg (28.1 KB)

>>3982188
original Deus Ex is great if you're not spoiled. still worth playing through even if you are.

most rpgs simply do not have great stories. this is because games fundamentally must be comedies; the good guys have to prevail at the end, and if you kill off beloved party members you'll just piss off the players. it's why Aeris dying resonated so well with the community: it was a moment of genuine tragedy in a medium that is risk-averse.

they also have to be trope-y and slaves to the game mechanics. constant battles; a personified big bad boss; simplistic, childish codes of ethics.

>>3982214
they're not superior for telling a story. their main advantage is player agency and choice, which can quickly convolute a story, so much so that the "choices" games give you tend to be pretty limited. having spent a couple hundred hours chatting with AI, i think we finally have to technology to get out of this box and make games that are truly open-ended by pairing them with powerful LLMs, in the hundred billion or (someday) trillion-parameter range.

>>3984743
based

>>3988486
>f you kill off beloved party members you'll just piss off the players. it's why Aeris dying resonated so well with the community: it was a moment of genuine tragedy in a medium that is risk-averse.
Imagine if Final Fantasy games had done this before 7

>>3988490
imagine if they had done that after FFVII, for that matter.

>>3988495
>imagine if they had done that after FFVII, for that matter.
I don’t need to. X-2 killed Final Fantasy

>>3988496
i played IV, VI, VII, and VIII all the way through. got filtered by V, i'm a casual plebfaggot. i dropped the series at IX, it no longer interested me. i got maybe to the second disk and just stopped playing, but by then i had discovered other great PSX RPGs like Wild ARMS.

>>3988499
About all you missed out on was 5, Tactics, and 10. I would recommend those three, all are great. I agree that 9 sucked. What did you dislike about 5? If you liked 4 and 6 I’d imagine you’d like 5 as well, unless you hate the job system.

>>3988509
it was the first FF that was really challenging, and i gradually got burned out. when i gave up i was on some desert temple stage that had all these moving "belts" of sand that slid you around, basically a puzzle. puzzles in jrpgs always piss me off because the random battles interrupt my train of thought. at that point i had played for a while and the barebones story just wasn't doing it for me. the job system was just ok, idk why everyone gets so excited about it.
and i have played some of Tactics, but i'm about as lukewarm on FFT's jobs as I was on V's jobs. i had outgrown FF by the time I played FFT.
i have replayed FFVI more times than I can count, and I will eventually finish it on Pixel Remaster, but i really have checked out of jrpgs in general.

>>3988509
>>3988515
btw did Nobuo write this banger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZzQLHdMkQc
i won't play X but that music rocks

>>3988515
>the job system was just ok, idk why everyone gets so excited about it.
>everyone
It's possible you just encountered multiple posts from the ff5 schizo we have

>>3988470
Yes.

>>3988486
Tragedy seen as higher than comedy is itself a brainless meme from pseuds.

>>3982188
>two bears high fiving
>no bears high fiving option
This really annoyed me

>>3988551
Shakespeare wrote both. Game devs only know how to do comedy.

>>3988798
Because tragedy is predictable and cross purpose to interaction.

>>3988673
fun fact, there is a mod for that and mod got referenced in the Wild Wasteland perk:
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Two-Bears-High-Fiving

>>3989130
Lmao thats awesome. Love waking up to a cool 4chan post. Thanks, pal.

>>3989130
Think im gonna have to find a fix for the stuttering and try and play again. I was really enjoying the game but after an hour it started to stutter when turning the camera and silly shit like that ruins my immersion. Would take shittier graphics and more stable frame timing

>>3982188
>from Japan
The FF13 trilogy exemplifies the core soul of Japanese literature and culture. It's a story about the transience of life, and about duty in futility. The latter two are especially beautiful and heartbreaking. 13-2 also has my favorite OST of any video game ever.

>>3989169
So it sucks on purpose?

>>3990891
Yes, but enough about your mother.

>>3990891
>>3990955
>Fukin gottem

>>3987348
Depends on what you're reading. If you're reading some of the classics absolutely yes. If some of the slop that used to end up regularly on bookshelves? Absolutely not. Scifi and Fantasy are usually as poorly written as what you see in video games.

>>3990955
What a lame comeback. A woman sucking dick is normal, you should say "enough about you" or "enough about your father".

>>3992313
>A woman sucking dick is normal
Enough about you.

>>3992380
My bad, I didn't consider what's normal for you headcase types.

Just hire a prozzie, anon. It's easy and you can experience the banality yourself.

>>3992240
How is this even up for debate? Of course books, which specialize in and offer solely writing, are going to have better writing on average than video games, which combine like a dozen artistic disciplines and rarely even focus on writing in the first place.

I read the Horus Heresy the other day, the first volume, and while it's cliched pulpslop trying to be a movie in book form, it's at least competently put together and the author is aware of literary devices and their utility. That's more than you can say about 95% of AAA releases and 99.9% of AA or indie games, and there's dozens of books of that quality that release every year. And then you've got the yearly award winners which are a cut above that, and then the contemporary greats, then the modern classics, and very rarely generational works. I struggle to think of any game made in the last 50 years with writing at the level of quality and maturation of a Pulitzer Prize fiction category winner. If you can write that well, you'd just write a novel.

>>3992438
>which combine like a dozen artistic disciplines
Of which the average nerd can notice three at most

>>3992438
>If you can write that well, you'd just write a novel.
Many books are "well written" but they are empty. They are mediocre

>>3992443
Name some novels that are well written and mediocre and empty, and then name some video games that have better writing than these novels.

>>3992449
Lolita
Planescape Torment

>>3992453
If you didn't get anything out of one of the most written-about novels ever, that's on you, my gamer.

Clair Obscur Expedition 33. It is well paced and makes one think.

>>3992449
>novel: The Great Gatsby.
>games:Live-A-Live, Cucked Knight scenario. Yggdra Union. Lone Wolf Saga(Android app). Star Ocean 2. Ultima Underworld 1. Der Langrisser, Indie path.Bahamut Lagoon . Rance 4.5: Brutal King.

>>3992453
Actual good answer, the plot of Lolita is boring as hell because the whole book is an author intensely aware that he is writing a book. Much style, little substance.

>>3992535
goy

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