>>2369136
He's not wrong. He said that after playing through their old games. There's a lot to improve on from Med 2. They need to get the balance right of new mechanics and old. Like it should have all the new battle mechanics like alt drag and shit. A more complicated management layer and resource system, but it also needs to have a similar flow to Med 2, let you move individual units and have the smaller shit like visually upgrading armour.

He's coping. There are multiple elements that made older TW games special, and the franchise keeps shedding mechanics which results in newer games lacking key elements of older games.
A good example of this are character traits, which CA interprets as "the things that make the general give a funny speech". When in reality this helps distinguish generals from one another and makes them characters you don't want to lose rather than just the heads of armies. The crazy guy is funny, yes, but the chivalrous guy you've built into a legend becomes a memory that makes you want to replay the game again however many years later. CA would be wise to make traits more relevant again, and generals/governors more similar to squaddies in XCOM where they matter and you build them up into unique characters. Instead, we're stuck with skill trees that encourage you to do the same thing every time unless you want to go for a meme army.

>>2369197
>The crazy guy is funny, yes, but the chivalrous guy you've built into a legend becomes a memory that makes you want to replay the game again however many years later.
AI post.

>>2369197
>When in reality this helps distinguish generals from one another
Things that never happened.

>>2369136
He can be right, because there are a lot of issues with the old games as well, like path finding and AI diplomacy. But if he says this and still doesn't add stuff like breaking off units from an army, then the new game will just be worse than the old ones.

I'd say there's a lot now mechanics that could do with being reimagined but they were ditched entirely and it's better to have them than not. Like mercenaries. The system med2 uses is very basic and kinda shitty, but it's still better than nothing or relying on random events like in shogun 2

>>2369241
They haven't improved the AI in twenty+ years, what makes you think they'll manage this time?
It seemed like they were trying to do so with 3 kingdoms but look how that turned out.

>>2369244
I dunno if people actually want better AI. What they want is an AI that does interesting things. Creates interesting armies and puts the player into fun situations. Like a good idea would never attack your castles and would just siege you down but people want to defend their castles. And in the battles people want them to attack you with cool thematic formations, not necessarily with tactics that are effective.

>>2369136
>Medieval 2 would not stand up to modern Total War," Wojs says. "Recreating it as it was would not make a good game." That's a bold statement considering how beloved the game is, but it's 20 years old now.
And yet, people like it more than any of the new titles.
>Nostalgia affects us all.
I hate the corpo and liberal psypops that try to claim nostalgia is bad. I want to slaughter them all.

>>2369136
>Nostalgia
the game has an active community

i agree that i don't want medieval 2 reheated - i want a legitimate successor to medieval 2 which expands upon the game and improves it
i don't want nutotal war slop with a medieval lacquer

>>2369252
>And yet, people like it more than any of the new titles.
I mean technically correct. People do. Not the majority of them though. You can have an opinion, but numbers don't lie.

>>2369136
Just give us an enhanced version of medieval 2's armor upgrade system. That's the one thing no total war since has come close to replicating and a medieval 3 without it would juat be a downgrade.

>>2369284
>muh numbers
Normalfags dont count.

>>2369136
It's a bit open to interpretation what he means exactly, but in broad strokes he's 100% correct. There's a lot that Medi2 did right, but there's also a lot about it that's objectively much worse than in the modern games like 3K and Pharaoh. I definitely don't want them to make some shit like Total Warhammer without magic, but nobody honestly wants Medi2 again and those that act like they do are just gaslighting themselves. What people want is a modern game that brings back some of the things that makes Medi2 fun to remember, without all the shit that makes it a chore to actually play.

>>2369252
>people like it more than any of the new titles.
What people? Even fucking Rome 2 has a bigger playerbase than M2.

>>2369136
Yeah it's far better than the modern TW games.
>nostalgia
People still play it. This guy is a fucking moron

>>2369136
He's right. The only good thing about Med 2 is the setting and atmosphere.

>>2369353
wrong. feature-wise it still mogs the shit out of all the newer games. the major issue with the older games and a lot of the newer games were AI. but if he recreated a 1:1 copy of Med 2 but with good AI, itd mog the shit out of every single new game.

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>>2369136
I have not bought a TW game in the last decade and Wokedieval 3 won't change my stance.

>>2369311
Hey we heard what you said, so we took out all the stuff that gave it flavor and shoved it in to the mould of what our shit programmers are still able to do. The result? It doesn't matter, paypigs are still going to buy it

I don't believe he actually said this.

>>2369245
Good point, though id say people actually want both, with some people tending towards one but others towards another.
The current state of the AI means neither.
I woild also add that this could be a sliding scale, harder difficulties would mean the AI would tend more towards playing optimally (as well as cheats cuz whatever) but that would require them making essentially 2 good ais and I'm not expecting that much

>>2369136
As someone who played modern Total War and then went back to try Medieval 2, this statement is entirely accurate

>>2369311
>I definitely don't want them to make some shit like Total Warhammer without magic, but nobody honestly wants Medi2 again and those that act like they do are just gaslighting themselves.
Medieval 2 had magic abilities (they weren't themed as magic but their effects were basically the same as those in warhammer) in the expansions, most noticeably the crusade one.
>>2369347
>nostalgia
>People still play it.
Yeah and most of those people do so because of nostalgia, myself included.

>>2369244
I'm fine with the AI being quite shit, it just sucks when there is nothing else making up for it. I'm not expecting much desu, there's a big chance the game will be shit and I'll just play medieval 2 instead.

>>2369367
Just go replay Medi2 if you're this averse to the idea of anything being changed.

I know you won't though.

>>2369387
Maybe after my Napoleon campaign. I know I haven't been tricked by them since Rome 2 and their decision to tie units to generals

test

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>>2369284
>but numbers don't lie.
If the numbers area coming from Steam only they do. Not everyone is a Steamcuck who is happy with owning nothing. Many of us have owned the disks since these games came out

>CA already coping in pre-alpha
kek

>ermmm actually it was nostalgia
No, the province system mogs the newer province system. The castles mog newer TW siege cities. The trait system mogs nu-total war. Even the simplistic unit recruitment pool mogs the newer total war. Speeches, assassin cutscenes, all mog new total war. It wasnt nostalgia, the features are straight up better. Now its all shit because of the AI and bugs, but if we are comparing solely based on features, it mogs.

>>2369524
Even with ai and bugs it's still more enjoyable to play. Shogun 2 was the last total war game I enjoyed and I go back to m2 and r1 from time to time.

the new medieval 3 needs more black women generals to reflect our modern realistic times, that what our audience needds!

>>2369370
The only other source is some random clickbait article so you're probably not wrong.

>>2369390
Those who avoided the dumpster fire that was Rome 2 and never bought a total war after are truly blessed

>>2369649
>>2369370
>The only other source is some random clickbait article so you're probably not wrong.
Kek, why would they lie?

https://www.youtube.com/live/vxLdNNGUQSY?si=zwQuJwitBcP1zKuj&t=3268

54:30

>>2369667
forgot to say the video was literally embeded in the article

>>2369136
That's a pretty long winded way of saying we can't make it good because it has to be on consoles

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I'm positive most of this thread are pajeet shills working for CA

>>2369667
>Why would a journo lie?
I wonder
>forgot to say the video was literally embeded in the article
Wasn't interested in clicking on ragebait

>>2369136
Classic yea but statement.
M2TW has loads of issues, be it the pathfinding, siegea, camera controls, animations etc. but it also does som stuff better than newer games.
Although I'd say that retraining/reinforcing needs a way to automate it, I love th system but it gets tiresome by late game.

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>>2369136
>"Errmmm, WE know what a REAL good Total War game is Chuddie. It's definitely not your RAYCIST PRO-WHITE storytelling!"
>totally ignores how even the non-white factions were made to look badass and there was never an attempt to make any historic faction in hold total war games out to be villains of anything, not even in fantasy where one faction literally exists via rape-babies in the woods
>"Even though none of us even worked with the people who -made- the original M2:TW and haven't made a -good- historic medieval Total War game in over a decade, -WE- know what a good game -SHOULD- be! Everything -GOOD- you remember about it is just rose-tinted glasses and nostalgia!"
I hope everyone involved with this project becomes perpetually unemployable, loses their homes, their marriages end and they never get to see their children ever again.
Anyone who buys this game expecting it to be good deserves all the suffering inflicted on them.

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>>2369194
Oh shut up. They're not saying this. They want to retroactively get rid of the old games to kill the modding community because it's competition. They know Medieval II's modding community is so robust that TW fans will just stay with M2 and buy it and not pay for M3.
They are laying the justification for re-releases and almost no one has a physical copy of the game, it's all Steam now. So they'll destroy your client, not have to ask permission, ruin your mods and make a new version.
They're relying on gamers being a bunch of crackheads who will flock to Medieval III once Medieval II is bricked.
Wake the fuck up, people.

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>>2369241
Even with those issues, Medieval II is still mechanically the -best- Total War game ever made. Combine that with the robust modding scene, there is no reason to buy any other Total War game ever again.

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>>2369282
I don't want Medieval II touched at all, leave it the fuck alone. I don't care what they do with Medieval III - we all know it's gonna be a bad game. Why are we expecting anything else?

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>>2369284
>"MUH NUMBERS"
>dumbasses who bought the game on hype, played it for 10 minutes and then went to watch some shitposting streamer exploit the game and prove it's not a real strategy game

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>>2369312
The fact you people paid for that shit and normalized releasing a game that is unplayable for a year and then STILL bought DLC and probably ALSO Emperor Edition is one of the reasons the industry and company is so terrible.
You showed them you could be treated horribly and you'd still come back.

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>>2369377
>"What do you mean terrain matters?"
>"Why aren't my gunmen firing in big blobs no matter what formation they're in?"
>"WTF my king DIED to a SINGLE CROSSBOW VOLLEY?"
>"These retinue abilities don't do anything!"
>"Duuurrrrr brain hurt, building isn't a single tech tree."
Uninstall your steam library immediately.

>>2369387
I haven't played any Total War more than Medieval II and mods ensure I'll never stop. SSHIP is already superior to anything the studio is capable of putting out.

>>2369671
Dear God, I had not considered this horrifying possibility.

>>2369686
I would not put it past them. CA has already been proven to be buying out the influencer community.

>>2369136
>modern Total War
And which 6/10 release from the last 10 years is he referring to, here?

>>2369742
>possibility
Isn't it hard confirmed? or is that only for 40k?

>>2369239
It does though, I still play 2 a lot and always have generals I remember and use for different purposes. I had one game where my king seemed to have shitty stat heirs that were only good for heavy cav use on the battle field, while a guy I promoted from captaincy started a Dynasty of absolute legends.

He's right in the sense that no one plays Medieval 2 in the format CA released it in, they all play it with mods that take CAs game and turn it into people's favour total war game. Its my favourite Total War, but I won't play without Stainless Steel

>>2369549
>you'll never get a game as good as Shogun 2, Fall of the Samurai with the map of Empire
It hurts

>>2369724
I liked Empires system, you can reinforce directly to the army but you have to pay per unit up front and it takes two turns. Makes you either follow up it a stack of units you can rotate round to replace losses or have to consider where your going to stop and reinforce. I had memorable campaigns in America where natives would fuck up my army and I would have to withdraw and replen while hoping another native army didn't catch me weak

>>2369136
>thoughts?
I think the popularity of medieval 2 is misunderstood. People like it because of the total conversion mods it has, which means how easy it is to mod.
Also, the base game is improved in the expansions, which all the mods are basically based off of.

>>2369730
Medieval 2 also looks absolutely great despite its age. They really nailed the style of the game

>>2369136
I'm doing a nostalgia playthrough of vanilla Medieval 2 right now and the only things that really bother me are the janky pathfinding and controls (especially during siege battles) and the lack of historical detail
with some of the QoL changes of newer TWs and a more detailed campaign map with more factions (and more variety of factions, like republics actually being republics) it would be almost perfect

>>2369197
Lets be real, you don't remember the vast majority of the generals you had or their traits. You remember a couple early ones then your empire gets so big and your generals so numerous that you stop bothering to check their traits unless you spot a funny title like "the Cuckold" or some shit. Beyond that only your faction leader might matter.

The only ones I remember are a guy who had the traits "Mad" and "Saintly Ruler" so they're the Mad Saint. And a cardinal/pope who was secretly a woman. That's it, the rest are gone forever to obscurity.

>>2369780
>variety of factions, like republics actually being republics
Empire gets shit on but considering its what came after Med 2 the level of detail it bought to the series was incredible. I really enjoyed Empire and can't believe CA didn't recognise how close to greatness they were, and instead just went back to making Europeon only games with Napoleon, Rome 2, Atilla and Thrones. I'm sick of conquering the same regions in Europe. Mix the polished mechanics of Napoleon and Shogun FOS with Empires Map and add some of the Depth of Europa Universalis and you'll have the GOAT Grand strategy game.

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>>2369755
The bottomless greed of the industry never ceases to amaze me. We've been trying console RTS since the fucking PS2 days, but everyone with a brain knows a controller is not sufficient for an RTS game.

>>2369757
People who say generals weren't more memorable in the old games just didn't ever play them.
I can remember generals, kings, nobles and agents by name from campaigns I played almost ten years ago.

>>2369832
Looking it up it seems it's only confirmed for 40k, still not a good sign

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>>2369759
That's the thing though; the base game and engine itself warts and all was still better than any new Total War game made since.
We all played Vanilla and Kingdoms until the wheels fell off, then the mods came around and proved you could do so much more with it. They never needed the bullshit Warscape crap. They needed to work with what they had and improve upon it instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.

>>2369769
Why is this an argument that people don't like Medieval 2? People still play Vanilla. Nobody seriously suggests to people they shouldn't play it first before touching mods.

As someone who only got Medieval 2 years after I played Rome 1, Medieval 2 felt like a massive downgrade when compared to Barbarian Invasion and even Medieval 1.
Vanilla Med2 is very mediocre and it has lots of bugs and jank even mods can't fix, but I'll probably play Tsardoms and EBII until I die.
Some of the new total wars did make good changes but they removed just as much. Barbarian Invasion with less jank would be the perfect Total War game imo.

>>2369701
well, they didnt lie, he said it and you look real silly right now.

>>2369835
why did you upload your own picture as a commander?

>>2369136
Yeah ok but if you don't fix the mass and collision issues, get rid of single entities, reintroduce minor roleplaying elements rather than immortal ruler characters, have actual cities that feel like cities again and just all around de shitify the game what the fuck is the point? It's going to suck lads, the question the remains is just how badly?

>>2369312
This shit argument every time. More people have listened to fucking Lizzo's latest abortion than was even alive when Mozart was. Doesn't mean you're not a faggot

>>2369872
Ok?

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>some anon says that people like m2tw
>another points out that it's only some of them
>several orangutans start yelling that normalfag opinion doesn't matter
what's this about grand strategies that attract children so much?

>total war
>grand strategy

>>2369919
If Excel-Paradrone games can be 'GC', why not TW

>>2369919
>um actually
You proved his point.

>>2369924
you should post about it in /gsg/, bro

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>>2369924
what was my point? I was just complaining

>>2369896
I think as bad as Britannia, easy

>>2369136
>thoughts?
He is retard.

>>2369918
somehow grown adults are really obsessed with a game series that hasn't been good since 10+ years

>>2369918
Serious reply, but why are you so asshurt that a dev being toxic is either treated like a joke or an insult? Especially since people don't actually want sequels to games they like to be bad yet these are the people who keep making them in seemingly every western company for the past 15+ years?

>>2369827
I think that Empire flopping was what convinced them to move in the direction that eventually created TW:WH
Empire was incredibly ambitious, moreso than any historical strategy game until EU5 and so much of it just doesn't work, it needed more time to polish and work out the mechanics but they didn't have the time or money or talent to do it
So they said fuck it, focused on polish and making simple mechanics look flashy and deep (both in campaign and battles) and that resulted in shogun 2 which was massively successful, so they doubled down on that type of game

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>>2369845
You are paid shills.

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>>2369918
Grand Strategy games were built by and for turbo-autists with power fantasies and history nerds.
Why is this so shocking?

>>2369775
>Medieval 2 also looks absolutely great despite its age. They really nailed the style of the game
A couple of weeks ago, was enjoying the highest graph settings, seeing the details of even the trees and grasses in both field battles and citadel sieges, also each and every blow and arrow that hits a person has an effect, unlike rome total war or other like the magical warhammer ones, its impressive, and super b, and would be even better with some AI fixes that the community already solved.
They could make it similar but more detailed in the number of towns, improved AI like in Rome 2 or Shogun 2, that kind of stuff, but the base game has much more thorough, realistic, detailed, better character development than the overly simplified Empire, shogun 2, Rome 2, Attila, or others.

>>2369827
>Empire gets shit on but considering its what came after Med 2 the level of detail it bought to the series was incredible. I really enjoyed Empire and can't believe CA didn't recognise how close to greatness they were, and instead just went back to making Europeon only games with Napoleon, Rome 2, Atilla and Thrones. I'm sick of conquering the same regions in Europe. Mix the polished mechanics of Napoleon and Shogun FOS with Empires Map and add some of the Depth of Europa Universalis and you'll have the GOAT Grand strategy game.
Adding the downgrade in realism from Rome 1, shogun, empire, medieval, to Rome 2 and attilla, losing the realistic agents, some of them intelligence related, spies, geishas, assassins, priests, and the like, vs "champions", priests, spies. Also merchants were removed too.

Agents could be improved too.

>>2369896
>Yeah ok but if you don't fix the mass and collision issues, get rid of single entities, reintroduce minor roleplaying elements rather than immortal ruler characters, have actual cities that feel like cities again and just all around de shitify the game what the fuck is the point? It's going to suck lads, the question the remains is just how badly?
Also, in Rome 2, the retardery of being able to destroy gates with only plain infantry, degrading the siege equipment offered in the game from that used in Medieval 2 or Rome 1.
Also in Empire, the other delusion of grappling hooks, or shogun 2 with the units climbing fucking castle while being heavily armored.

>>2370175
To its credit climbing was only tactically worthwhile in specific instances because you took losses just from using it. It was good for getting flanking forces in and punishing gate crowding. Without it every siege would have just revolved around swarming the gate.

>>2369197
You are correct. However only people with imaginations care about stuff like that. Lots of people who still play these games don't imagine the characters existing and doing things in their heads after they stop playing. They just do something else to occupy the empty space that exists at all times in their mind.

>Medieval 2 would not stand up to modern Total War

Medieval 2 is better than every total war game that came after it. For every good step one of them took they took 10 steps back. I'm cautiously optimistic for Medieval 3 because of the new engine and mod support but I'm fully expecting the base game to be phoned in shit.

>>2369311
No. Modern total war has completely lost what made the series fun.
At first I thought I had just gotten numb to the spectacle and the series had lost its appeal because of that.
But no, I go back to the old games, magically the battle become fun again.

>>2370092
Was Empire a flop? And most of the complaints about it came down to them doing a bad job of developing the game, people weren't against the ideas in it.

>>2370319
It sold pretty well but years after release is consistently rated as one of the worst TW games, while Shogun 2 is rated as one of the best (often THE best)
The ideas of Empire in a well executed game would be amazing, sure, but neither CA nor any other company seems to be capable of making such a game

>>2369136
Wojs is a retarded nigger confirmed

>>2370400
I've been trying EU 5 recently and it's frustrating that it fumbles so many different things, it makes it to hard to enjoy playing, I find myself putting off loading it up.
The actual demand for a full Austism simulator next to 0, even among people who think they like it, but Total war is too shallow at the same time. I tried Knights of Honor 2 as well but that also misses the mark to widely

>>2369136
>CA cuckold already pre coping because his "medieval" game full of nigs and women wont sell
Yawn

>>2369136
Total war is the same fucking game reskinned 20 times with a different coat of paint depending on the time period or franchise. What a hypocritical statement.

>>2369136
>Recreating it as it was would not make a good game.
Correct in the context that they don't have the talent available, making it sound like its your fault or something.

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>>2370280
Anyone who pays money for this game, pre-orders it or expects it to be anything but trash full of anti-white propaganda to boot is a retard who deserves all the suffering inflicted upon them.
But don't worry - people aren't resisting their claims they're going to, "update," Medieval 2
>which just means they're gonna break it so modders can't do anything with it anymore and mods won't work, thus forcing people to buy an inferior product for their fix

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>>2370297
This.
Then once you dive deep into the modding scene you realize that there are literally endless possibilities of what you can do and experience.
They didn't need a new engine, they needed people in development who understood what makes a Total War game good.
>battles where tactical play actually matters
>engaging campaign map dynamics
>sandbox campaigns so that the choices you make actually matter
>family trees you actually feel attached to
>engaging settings
>even though there were cheesy units, you could actually be a good strategic player and overcome the cheese
>capturing the power fantasy of leading a historical/fictional empire in a fully fleshed-out world

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>>2370319
This >>2370400 is the best answer.
I played Empire a lot once because warts and all it was the only Total War experience for that era. Once I discovered the Steam & Steel mod and similar ones I didn't feel the need to play Empire ever again. I'll sacrifice naval battles for land battles that actually work. Crazy that Empire's AI was supposedly designed for firearms-centered warfare in the 18th & 19th centuries, but somehow Medieval II's AI is more competent controlling an army of the same kinds of units than Empire's and troop movement works way better.
Games like >>2370496 just don't do it for me. I don't wanna play a fucking spreadsheet simulator map-painting game. Call me a smoothbrain but I need my actual battles.

>>2370513
It's not even nigs and women that bother me at least.
What bothers me is shoving them in places where they don't belong. If you want a Medieval-Era Total War where Africa is a major player, just fucking include Africa as a whole continent. Expand the map out - tons of mods have already done this.
I don't even necessarily care if w*men can become faction leaders, it did happen. Just make it realistic, i.e. realistic public order and loyalty penalties. If someone wants to do a fucking Queen Elizabeth run then make them earn that shit, don't hand it to them.
Put actual African kingdoms as playable factions. Don't just fucking Blackwash Egypt or an Arabian kingdom.

>>2370653
>battles where tactical play actually matters
I'm not a huge TW fan and most of my experience playing it comes from playing Rome 1 and Med 2 as a teen. In those games flanking and positioning to manage fatigue and morale seemed important. How is it that tactics don't matter in the newer games? Like what is the point of battles at all if you're just going to run blobs into each other and hope you win the stat check?

>>2370669
Yes.
From rome 2 on the games are just stat and morale checks. Remember those early battles in med 2 that turned into slogs as units would rout, rally, and force repositioning as each side becomes exhausted? In rome 2 early battles were literally just two groups slamming into each other and one mass routs. The earliest rome 2 mods were specifically to make battles longer because you'd literally spend 4 minutes walking into position and then the whole battle would be over in 20-30 seconds from the point of contact as one side suffers a mass rout.

>>2370669
What this >>2370674 guy said. In the older games and especially with mods if you really wanna get sweaty it's also about army comps, positioning your fire support, etc.. There's a lot I could get into by my brain is mush rn.
Also what the other guy described I also saw in the supposedly flawless Shogun 2. You'd go through all this positioning but then battles would always be over in half a minute.
Meanwhile, in Medieval II I've had various battles of various sizes be either surprisingly grueling or over very quickly because a maneuver paid off.
Another big problem is a lack of unit collision in the newer games and too many OP single-entity units. There are a hundred play-throughs you can find on YouTube where a guy does some cheese and creates a hero unit that can solo an entire army. That's not a fucking strategy game.

>>2370688
Shogun 2 was fast but it wasn't nearly as bad as rome2 and on. The same sort of medieval 2 push and pull was there. Units would retreat and rally. It was an actual tactical success to force a huge battle ending mass rout off the bat that early game required killing the enemy generals and slamming your own (multiple) into the backs of already wavering units.
Rome2 fucked this because of how armies became tied to single generals. Instead of having two or three in a single battle to help bolster morale and reign wavering units you have one dude that can't help a domino effect of chain routs because he's one dude.

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>>2370732
Yeah; I always have had a Hot Take that general-sniping is way too effective against AI. There are tons of examples in military history where an army's general was killed but they still won.

>>2369727
If that were true then players and modders can just go back to the CD version of the game. The old M2TW and Kingdoms expansion images are easily found. But the reality is no one plays M2TW anymore, even with all the mods that have been made over the years. So your little theory is now debunked.

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>>2370763
Yeah because we just have a bunch of CD versions of Kingdoms or Medieval 2 laying around. You're retarded and/or a paid shill.

>>2370763
>nobody plays medieval 2 anymore
lol, lmao.

>>2370763
Currently there are 2k people playing medieval total war 2 on steam vs 11k for Warhammer 3. Not bad for an ancient game where 95% of its playerbase are going to be using CD installs or images, especially being compared against the most current and hot release, with a disgustingly huge cross pollination due to the Warhammer name.
>but Warhammer 3 sucks it should be higher but they fucked it or some other silly cope
Warhammer 2 is the last good Warhammer one and it's got 500 people playing lol. You're a retard and deserve to be killed

>>2370653
The engine was never a problem. The problem was the the lost passion, the removal of simulationy mechanics, and in recent titles, the addition of boardgame mechanics.
>>2370669
More and more the games are just about slamming the right units against the right units. And morale matters less and less. You pretty much do not see chain routes in warhammer for example.

>>2370658
>2014 sentiment
Hello time traveler.

>>2370818
Do not give them an inch

>>2370859
Well duh.
I dont want any nogs in my TW, i dont care where its set.

>>2369727
I still have a physical copy of medieval 2

>>2370927
Same, along with the included history channel dvd on the crusades.

>>2370280
>Play Medieval 2
>Never get attacked by AI once outside of scripted invasions
>In battle AI just runs around in circles
>Campaign is just mindlessly building everything in every settlement with no downside
Old total war is dogshit

>>2371098
>scripted invasions
>passive ai
>in med2
The fuck? I don't expect much from this place , but you obviously never even the game.

>>2371098
>Campaign is just mindlessly building everything in every settlement with no downside
What's wrong with that, it costs money an time and higher tier buildings get very expensive. I hated the bullshit Rome 2 introduced where buildings would have heavy negative modifiers for no fucking reason, which forced you to build the stuff to counter it with your incredibly limited build slots.

>>2371098
2/3 of your complaints are down to AI, which is still shit in nu total war too. strictly speaking on a feature to feature comparison the old games mog.

>>2369136
>"Without nostalgia and rose-tinted spectacles, Medieval 2 would not stand up to modern Total War," Wojs says. "Recreating it as it was would not make a good game." That's a bold statement considering how beloved the game is, but it's 20 years old now. Nostalgia affects us all.

Anyone who disagree with this should give a quick read on the M2 diplomacy bug

>>2371238
The thing is people aren't looking at it with rose tinted glasses. They see clearly that all games have bugs but medieval 2 and rome 1 had other systems in place that blow modern total war titles out of the water.

>>2371238
>Anyone who disagree with this should give a quick read on the M2 diplomacy bug
You're dumb. If they remade M2 but with functional AI and little game-breaking bugs and change absolutely nothing else, it would mog the fuck out of nu-total war. It is not nostalgia, they were, they ARE, better games.

>>2369136
I really hated the combat in medieval 2 in rome units push forward and attack while in medieval they form a line and spread back so every fight is a slog that lasts way longer than it should no matter what you do

>>2371238
I tried it with diplo bug fixed recently and it just neutered AI and I was practically free to take provinces and AI barely opposed me

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>>2370818
>>2370859
>>2370876
So you... don't want the ability to conquer Africa?

>>2371098
You are a paid shill sent to make the game sound bad. No one who has ever played the game believes this. Even on Normal the AI will attack you. Even the Easy Battle AI doesn't do what you described.

>>2371342
nope

>>2370774
>we just have a bunch of CD versions of Kingdoms or Medieval 2 laying around.
Zoomers are completely fucked.
>>2370776
The number of people who play M2TW exclusively are not a threat to CA's revenues at all. There are probably mere hundreds of them. And they are probably too old to be the target market anyway.
>>2370779
>Not bad for an ancient game
2k players isn't cutting into their revenue. Especially since most of them likely still play nuTWs as well.
>95% of its playerbase are going to be using CD installs or images
Nah, you're just making shit up now to cope. Pretty much all mods are for the steam version. Everyone who used to play the pirated poseidon images 19 years ago ended up buying it on steam eventually.

>>2371587
>just making shit up
>proceeds to talk out of his ass, move goalposts and generally just be retarded
Wow, I'm so glad you're here to show us how much worse all our lives really could be

>>2369835
Honestly even after having played every campaign on vh/vh, I still enjoy vanilla.
It's essentially a solved game, but being able to fire up the game and do a little map painting is still fun.

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I never liked Med2. No back then, not now. I tried to break into it few times, using some mods or fixes and it never worked for me.
I still play Shogun 1 and Rome 1 occasionally.

>>2369727
this
vidyaindustry has long been corrupted by consumerism. you MUST buy new product you MUST abandon the old product you MUST get excited for new product

>>2369136
If people actually wanted to play medieval 2 then it would be the top played total war game right now. Are they supposed to make a game for the 5000~ medieval 2 players? It holds the same daily player base as 3 kingdoms, which is abandonware.

>>2369197
Three kingdoms and wh3 both have character traits.

>>2369241
Breaking off units from armies doesn't make sense in a premodern army. That's why three kingdoms tied them to lords. Why would the thralls just fuck off from their owner and leader

>>2369244
Three kingdoms had the greatest ai in the franchise. It came off as very diplomatic, clever, and formidable even on normal

>>2369738
>terrain
More significant in 3k
>gunmen
Only realistic complaint, but only in tw fantasy
>king died in single volley
Infamous feature of 3k if your general is a strategist or commander
>retinue abilities
3k abilities are all passives. I don't think medieval 2 kings even had special abilities until they got magic in the kingdoms dlc

>>2370733
Fixed in 3k, generals dying provides a strong, but temporary, "general died recently" malus. I think it also has a limited radius. They'll lose his encouragement but if they survive this malus they pretty much fight with full strength and can recover

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>Click thread
>"Muh player count"
>Currently top 3 despite being a 20 year old non-Steam game
>Literally every new title except for Rome 2 and WH3 has worse numbers
>Pharaoh has whopping 555 players despite being the most recent TW
>Troy has 213 (LOL)
You should keep repeating this line so everyone can realize just how badly CA has screwed over this entire IP. I didn't even realize most of their new titles just have no legs at all until this thread. It's honestly fascinating.

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lmao

>>2371735
what a king
i still replay it every 2-3 years

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they really dropped the ball with rome remastered

>>2371735
How the hell are Pharaoh's numbers even that bad? The last game I bought from CA was Shogun 2 so I really don't know what the story is with any of the games aside from Rome 2.

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>>2371747
>setting
>saga game
>overpriced
>denuvo
also it have two entries pharaoh and dynasties

>>2371751
So Dynasties is like a mainline camp made as a free update while the triple A priced Pharaoh original release was more like a Kingdoms campaign? A bronze age TW deserved better treatment than this at the very least.

>>2371760
Dynasties are on bigger map and with more factions
There is two factors, player base is shrinking. neither zoomers, women, coloured play this type of games. People who play it are getting older and there is no new wave to replace them.
The other factor is that no matter the settings the battles are getting worse and worse.
So Warhammer is carried by setting alone(and maybe a scale too) but less know eras just flop.

>>2370400
Also to make Empire a real bitch to mod was such a scummy move from CA. All that just so they could sell more DLC.

>>2371788
Yep. That was really shitty, if they don't didn't gated it Empire would be fixed by mods(probably) fast enough to save it.
It really have some neat ideas. Too bad they were buried under bugs, brain dead AI and lack of polish.

>>2371676
Other than for standing armies, wouldn't levy troops often muster in different places before joining together later as a central army for a campaign? Although, total war doesn't simulate a levy system.

>>2371747
Game came out at the time of peak CA drama on warhammer side so everyone rooted for it to fail and shat on it.
It was made by the bulgarian B studio that while I don't think are bad, clearly didn't have the resources to make a full sized TW game. It was based on Troy so it was a step back in many ways. It came years after 3K and was contemporary to WH3 while Troy is WH2. Despite all this it was still marketed it as a fully fledged historical release and they charged $70 for it, which made people feel even more insulted. They got such harsh backlash they actually lowered the price and refunded people who already bought it.
"Historical fans" wanted chud staples like roman empire and crusades or maybe the sort-of-announced-but-quietly-cancelled 3K sequel not bronze age, nobody gives a shit

The game itself is actually 6/10 and has some okay ideas but there's honestly not much reason to play it over anything else because all games since rome2 sort of play the same anyway, so nobody did.

>>2371109
Last campaign I remember not fighting a single army in my borders until a few Mongols managed to sneak past the Turks
>>2371139
I prefer the new system where you have to carefully think and plan which provinces will provide what to your greater empire. The old system was just mindless clicking that could have been easily automated.
>>2371160
Nu total war is better + They have Multiplayer campaign which makes the bad AI a non problem

>>2371675
Warhammer's character traits are mostly irrelevant because what really matters are skill trees. "Oh no you stayed too long in a place with an inn" or "oh no you stayed too long in a place with Skaven corruption" are annoyances that make players want fewer character traits rather than more.

>>2371821
>I prefer the new system where you have to carefully think and plan which provinces will provide what to your greater empire.
>>2371821
funny joke
I prefer the system that allows modders to do whatever the fuck they want with buildings, as many did do, that allowed for totally different govt buildings and wildly different building chains than matching color to the 3 slots allotted for your mega city.

>>2371601
Nigga you claimed 95% of players use the CD version, which means steam's 2k players represents 5% of all players, implying there are 40,000 people playing M2TW at this very moment.

>>2371676
>scouts, garrisons and raising parties didn't exist before the modern era
What are you even on about. Especially when the game that introduced the mechanic was Rome 2, when in that time period it was very common for subunits to move and operate independently.

>>2371955
>autists can't tell what a hyperbolic statement is
Wew lad, ok let's play by your rules.
>but the reality is nobody plays mtw2 anymore
On the contrary, at least 2k people are still playing it. You gonna stop being a faggot?

>>2371983
Also he's omitting that CA blatantly said they implemented such a step backwards because of an engine related bug that nobody used and could have been easily fixed. It's just pure incompetence

>>2371988
>I didn't actually mean it!!!!!
holy faggot. Next time just google it before posting

>>2371999
>he says as his own assertion was entirely btfo and everything since then is cope
Lol

Looks like Anthony Cumia

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>>2371735
>Pharaoh mogged by GUNSHIP BATTLE TOTAL WARFARE

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>>2369136
>recreating its predecessors "would not make a good game"
Reminds me of when a similar thing was said during one of picrelated's early dev diaries, and look at how that game ended up. I don't think the change from Med 2 to Med 3 will be that drastic, but still.

I can see Med 3 end up just being the engine CA used for Pharaoh with a medieval campaign shoved into it, except you can already play such a game by playing modded Atilla. But given Atilla's popularity being right behind Med 2 per the SteamDB data from >>2371735, making Med 3 like that might be the move.

I personally thought Med 2 was a flawed game when I tried playing it, but the only TW game I've properly done a campaign in was Empire so feel free to throw my opinion in the trash.

>>2372621
>I can see Med 3 end up just being the engine CA used for Pharaoh with a medieval campaign shoved into it,
we already know that Med3 will be the launch of their next generation engine

>>2372729
40k is the launch of their new engine and also the only reason that engine got funding. M3 is just getting windfall from the GW money.

>>2372621
Med 2 was a flawed game in vanilla, but the sheer quality and amount of mods for it elevate it, I still play to this day. It got enough right that it was a great foundation to build on.
>modded atilla
The 1212ad mod for that was the most fun I've had in any of the post Rome 2 games, shame the base game is so locked down they can't give it the Med 2 treatment

>>2371342
I dont care.

When are they gonna make a WW1 game just called "Total War"?

>>2373420
Most rumours seem to claim they were making one to go with the more ranged and vehicle focused engine that was needed for the inevitable 40k game, but it was cancelled at some point.
It's not like WH3 got a lot of people working on it either so they must have been doing something. Seems it didn't work out and they decided to announce med3 early instead.

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>>2371348
Gay.

>>2371613
Mods ruined me for vanilla, I just couldn't go back after I discovered them.

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>>2371627
The only way it stops is if Gaymers put the fuckin' pipe down and have some standards. We have to dig our heels in and chimp out or nothing will ever change.
Brown Trannies aren't going to buy even a watered down Total War game. They are literally too low IQ to play the game and too rootless as a people to appreciate the kind of drama a historical epic fantasy instills in a White man.

>>2371683
Too bad I don't give a shit about China enough to invest in a Total War game for it, lol.

>>2369812
Nah I remember all my great generals even in the late game slog fest. Of course I forget the insignificant ones who only exist to garrison shit or never amount to anything but those people were forgotten in real life too.

>>2374156
For me it's when old mods feel unplayable because they're not utilizing certain fixes that have released in the 10+ years since it was made.

>>2369136
He' dead on right.

Wasteland 3 made by Brian Fargo, admitted this. It's like $2 game on GoG now if anyone wants to check it out. The party bot and enemies that move 2 at a time were needed or the game would have almost failed.

Turn based from that era is too boring. Troy had faster moves. Attila was unplayable late game due to turn length. I personally would play aggressive on the opening just because I realized how much time it would save late game to wipe factions. That's bad game design. I would avoid areas in Kenshi to avoid load times. Any time a player is avoiding because of jank the game needs polish in that area.

Loved the games but they need improvement and the jank needs to be ironed out. Fallout New Vegas I played the crap out of, I will not go back to it heavily because of jank on PC, mostly crashes. It's not a new game either. Anyway.

The party bot breaks up the monotony of turn based.

Make a graph the left side is anxiety bottom is boredom. where they meet on the chart make a tunnel called "Flow State". Inside flow state is fun. The party bot gives anxiety which helps kick the game into flow state.

Anxiety is anything like a ringing phone, gunshots far away or close, the clanging of swords. Music in games helps put players into flow state see GTA radio stations or soundtracks. The Mario theme or another familiar song.

I'm digressing but I would MTW 1 before i played 2 again. Just because I already played 2 and the flaws make the game not worth the squeeze.

The problem with Total War games once a player has tried 3 games they are just playing a variation over over, not a new game. Warhammer is a good way to sell skins. I can see playing Warhammer if it is hard to get a tabletop game going.

That's my notes on the matter. If you don't like em disregard as usual.

I want the smoothness of Troy or ToB in an Attila world. The range of units art atmosphere of the game makes me want to play. But a remake of Attila no

>>2369136
That's unfortunate, if you can't explain why a new game is better than the old game without going "it's just nostalgia", then it's generally not better than the old game.

>>2369136
>"Without nostalgia and rose-tinted spectacles, Medieval 2 would not stand up to modern Total War,"
I now have zero interest in playing medieval 3.

>>2371676
>>Breaking off units from armies doesn't make sense in a premodern army.
????? Are you an idiot????

Pre-modern armies, i.e. feudal armies, are comprised of small, discrete retinues. That huge army of 10,000? It's actually more like 500 separate small armies individually loyal to different people who, through a network of feudal obligations and oaths of fealty, all wound up called into service for one really important guy.

Medieval war fare is in fact ALL ABOUT smaller detached units conducting raids. The army only stock together in one big mass if there was rumors of another army nearby, and they wanted to have numbers. Or if they were going to lay siege to a fortified town or castle. Otherwise, having all those horses and men in one place just created a logistical headache for whoever was running the campaign. Medieval armies did not have the benefit of a large, sophisticated bureaucracy to manage things like extended supply lines, often each lord was responsible for his own retinue's supply, and the overall commander of the campaign would attempt to have enough supplies for all the allies he expected to stay with the main host. But shortages would necessitate for parts of the army to break off and "live off the land".

>>2369727
They don't care if the modders won't move. They just assume they'll get the money rolling in when they destroy modders.

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>>2377397
Basically this. They are relying on gamers just being a bunch of crack addicts and with hung heads shuffling over to Medieval III. The community has done it so many times before, why wouldn't they do it this time?

I got into M2 relatively later after being introduced to the franchise from Shogun 2, and Medieval 2 is still my favorite game, so no, it's not entirely nostalgia. It's actually really good. And it's my favorite game because it perfectly suits my autistic historical roleplay and power fantasies. It's alright though if nu-CA doesn't understand what made M2 so great, they're incapable of making a good M3 anyway.