Thread #111129864
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What if you all just like... stopped giving your money to vtubers?
Like you do understand how much power this one simple step gives you, right?
Dude, I've been watching streamers and vtubers for years. Never gave them anything besides a view. Never even crosses my mind to give them any more than that. I still don't get the mindset of giving them money.
Just watch their shit without doing anything else. It's that easy. That way, when they do end up dropping the kayfabe and it's revealed that they're a harlot or that they hate their viewers or w/e, you can simply drop them in an instant. Giving them money only fucks you over in the long run. It anchors you to them and makes it so it's a battle to untether yourself from them when sunk fallacy is in full effect. You start making excuses as to why w/e they did wasn't that bad and desperately defending them when it's just some thot hiding behind the anime draping.
Another reason to not give them money, money changes them. The character you originally liked gets corrupted (not in the hot way either) and big headed and they become very unlikable, but again just like before you're more likely to make excuses for staying even after this change because you're invested in them, you've dropped actual money on them. Who knows how much.
And lastly, most of the big vtubers are more well off than you, why the fuck are you making the rich richer? You're giving to someone who is in a better position than you, FOR NO REASON. Only reason you would do this is if you like to be findommed which is cringe af.
I can't see eye to eye with people who give money to streamers. I've been on the internet since it's very inception and I can't fathom this shit.
>They won't stream if they don't get paid. Back in my day they used to get paid by ADVERTISERS, SPONSORS AND THE SITE THEY'RE STREAMING OFF BASED ON THEIR VIEW COUNT.
And people still streamed and made videos all the time then. If their heart is only in it for the money they are almost certainly shallow enough to be not be interesting to listen to and should probably consider OF instead.
Those that are in it for the love of the game will remain while the rest are weeded out.
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>>111130517
unironically I recommend having a workaholic oshi and possibly getting in touch with their community to possibly make friends
Dokibird for example is fun to follow for me because she's always cooking up unexpected and wild projects like her gigantic, fully-interactive VRChat world.
I love hanging out with other fans too since we usually have similar interests, which helps more for loneliness than focusing on a parasocial one with a chuuba ever could.
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>>111132147
>>111132738
Why even be in this hobby if the very idea of parasocial investment makes you this miserable?
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>>111129864
I’ve been here since late 2019 when vtuber discussion used to be on /jp/ and I’ve never EVER gave a single penny to a vtuber ever. And I don’t plan on doing so either.
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>>111130961
>possibly getting in touch with their community to possibly make friends
>possibility
Well said. I was going to argue that making friends in any kind of community isn't possible, or that the places where they meet are inaccessible or unknown.
What intrigues me is that, for example, Ina gets thousands of active viewers on her live stream, and yet I can't find a single Takodachi. Having someone to talk to about silly things about your Oshi is utopian.
Do you have Oshis?
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>>111129864
another thing to consider is the quality of their content will be affected by how easy it is to make money. if simps are drowning them in cash every stream regardless of quality then they have no real incentive to make new or more interesting content. save your donations for the types of streams you find most enjoyable and you just might see more of them. the same could be said for lazy OF creators but that is a (slightly) different conversation.
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I got tired of all the paid shill streams and constant begging to buy merch that a good chunk of EN that I willingly supported was doing. Just stopped giving them money whatsoever over the last year. Feels pretty good to save an extra 1-2k a year.
Mind you that I still will go to an event a year, but that's more just a week vacation + some concert, not me just handing money hand over fist to talents.
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>>111135698
What do you even talk about? Every time I talk with people at cons where there's fans of the talents I like, no one ever really stays 'on topic'. It always ends up being a springboard to just talk about life, anime, or other hobbies.
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>>111136439
Exactly. I have seen in real time the effect that making tons of money has on vtubers. It's easiest to see on ones who started relatively small, because while they're small they're putting more effort into their streams, they're more grateful to their viewers, they interact with the viewers more, there's no aura of distain for their viewers about them and yes you could just say that they're more carefully hiding it and I'm not denying that possibility but I believe that disdain for the audience gradually grows as their ego inflates with fame and money begins pouring in to them.
All this to say that chuubas are at their best when they're putting in the effort to please their audience, when they're engaging and sound genuine and that's the sort of thing you see from smaller streamers before they're corrupted and their ego takes over. Then they start an inner circle, they have overzealous, overprotective mods banning and censoring people for mild things (and make no mistake they do this because they want the chuuba for themselves, let's not mince words here). You start noticing the vtuber being more bitchy and irritable. Overall the whole viewing experience starts deteriorating in direct correlation with them making more money. It's uncanny to watch.
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>>111135698
As much as the typical /vt/ user loathes them, twitter and discords are a good place to start at least surface level to get in touch with other fans. There's also conventions too where you can have a lot of fun if you get rid of the fear of being cringe.
Sometimes on twitter or the discords, a group of fans will be looking for helpers/crowdfunders for a fan project and that's also a potential way in.
Personally, mine is Doki but through her I've also gotten into contact with fans of a bunch of others like Mint, ChibiDoki, Laimu, Snuffy, Nimi, etc. too even if I don't actually watch the chuuba they like, which is nice in its own way because it means we can share stupid clips with each other knowing that the other hasn't seen it yet.
Hell, I've even seen a few people get hooked up thanks to chuubas and at least one marriage.
It's totally possible to be actually social in this scene, and I feel like having a sense of community helps me enjoy the hobby a lot more than I would if I just watched my oshi and focused everything on her alone. By virtue of being Ina, there's definitely a ton of takos out there if you're willing to actually look.
A protip though is to not get too hung up on other people's tastes. A lot of the people I know and consider friends have tastes and hobbies I'm not interested in or turn me off entirely (shipping obsessed being a common one, or maybe they have political views I disagree with), but as long as they don't make it their entire personality, you can usually find common ground with people.
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>>111136658
yea complacency is the death of good content. when creators are new they have something to prove and will go out of their way entertain and innovate so they can carve out their niche. unfortunately many types will get lazy the instant they think they can get away with it, especially if they view their fans/customers as good little cultists that will drink the cool-aide. seeing as vtubing is built on the backs of lonely men chuubas tend to speedrun this part once they get a whiff of success. this is the real reason we have seen next to no innovation in this stagnating industry over the past 6 years.
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>>111136906
>and I feel like having a sense of community helps me enjoy the hobby a lot more than I would if I just watched my oshi and focused everything on her alone
I'm the opposite. I've realised that I enjoy watching my oshi more if I avoid the community. Although I still end up coming here occasionally unfortunately.
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>>111137026
You hit the nail on the head about the speedrun thing. The formula for this game has long since been solved.
>Put in effort at the start
>Go all in and cultivating a parasocial audience that is completely in to you (very easy to accomplish)
>Reach a certain critical mass of fans
>Now you're set for life, (almost) too big to fail now, all you have to do is stream whatever low effort shit semi-regularly and you get paid.
Why continue putting in effort when the incentive is gone and your goal is already reached?
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>>111136439
I used to think that small vtubers actually try because they want to blow up. But no, they mostly just spam FOTM garbage, trying to magically blow up with the grace of youtubes algo, and then when they blow up, its finally time to show what they REALLY have to offer, right? I mean surely now when so many eyes are on them, their content will improve?
Nah...that is sadly the time to care even less because they still get superchats, they get sponsorships, sell some merch, etc.
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>>111137026
>this is the real reason we have seen next to no innovation in this stagnating industry over the past 6 years.
not so much that as the fact that content creation as a whole doesn't reward effort. It rewards appealing to the lowest common denominator.
That's why Deme can pull 2-3k watching other people's content with no commentary but Shindigs can barely break 200 each stream despite coding up an entirely new interactive game for every stream.
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>>111129864
While I love my oshi, 99% of vtubers aren't entertaining enough to earn money. As an audience member, I need to feel that my money is well spent. When you make a purchase for a good or service it's easy to justify that. However, for donos or member it's much harder. I've been watching vtubers since 2018 and I've only donated twice ever
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>>111137318
people like to shitpost but this is the real reason saba is such a danger to the industry. other vtubers held her up as their end goal for a long time now, and if that goal becomes "don't stream and coast on merch/memberships" the viewers are the ones who will suffer.
>>111137388
I enjoy good content and creators, and it hurts me to watch people get burned by lazy talentless hacks. although i suppose trying to manipulate peoples emotions here is easier than trying to actually improve your own content, right?
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>>111137784
i mean vtubing is basically emotional prostitution so they need to put on the right uniform. which is why chuubas come off as super hypocritical when they rail against fans acting the slightest bit parasocial, as if that isn't the entire reason they aren't still working customer service.
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>>111136906
>sister post
>"at least one marriage thanks to chuubas"
BASED
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>>111132147
>>111132426
>>111132492
Skill issue. I'm my oshi's favourite!
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>>111136658
>I believe that disdain for the audience gradually grows as their ego inflates with fame
Or maybe it's because as they grow bigger, the quality of the audience drops. They start out with a smaller nicher community of people that actually care about them and their content but once the viewers go up, the dumber normies start finding the streams leading to the degradation of the community and naturally that would lead to resenting the viewers more.
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>>111137026
>this is the real reason we have seen next to no innovation in this stagnating industry over the past 6 years.
Innovation happens when something can still be changed for the better. But the industry has already narrowed in on the best result. You can't expect new innovation in something that has been perfected. Sliced bread will be sliced bread even in 20 years. The only next step for vtubers is for AI to take over so people have their own personal anime waifu without having to give money to some woman. But we software isn't ready yet.
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>>111136578
The nearest convention here is too expensive to go to. Speaking of talking about anything, it's really tedious to force someone to talk about something they don't feel like talking about at the moment, but I've never had that moment of collective appreciation, you know.
>>111136906
I've already tried, but I haven't been able to achieve anything productive. Right now, what's helping me alleviate my needs the most is making goofy posts here.
>Doki
I always remember the Peter incident. I haven't watched enough of her to see the similarities between her and Deme, for example. I like her energy. I hadn't seen anyone comment on Snuffy in a while; it was one of the first indie anime I watched, along with Shylilly.
>not get too hung up on other people's tastes
This always becomes an issue, both because an opportunity to talk about something in common never arises, and more because you want to spend time with that person. I won't be ungrateful about this, but I can't ignore the fact that what I want, I can't have.
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>>111144792
To whom? I did something similar. though I'm a neet so it wasn't too much money in the grand scheme of things. I wasted more in crypto.
I sent it various Holos and indies, but my 2 biggest targets were Kronii and Kiara.
I kind of want to quit watching vtubers because I just don't feel joyful about it anymore. And I'm getting the feeling Cover is forcing Holos to lie to fans about various things. (Though Kronii and Kiara are among the most honest). But it is hard for me to quit because I'm very lonely and bored.
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>>111137693
>"don't stream and coast on merch/memberships"
Question: why would you be a member of a chuuba who doesn't produce content?
The point of being a member is to support them producing stuff you find entertaining. If they don't do anything, there's no point.
Saba's members are mentally ill.
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>>111140759
this anon has never watched a smol chuuba from debut
1-2view chats are the worst consisting of the most insufferable autists, creeps that don't care for boundaries and literal children. if they grow out of this hell is when their audience starts improving
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There's one specific talent who showed me very quickly that I really don't give a fuck about the 'idol journey' if it means killing off or severely reducing the content that I watched on a regular basis. Spent probably close to a grand on them and merch related to them before they flipped the switch. Now I just don't spend any money outside of memberships to a select few talents I like.