>>152355120
Every single person who works at this company can go fuck themselves. Piracy will still work, right?

>>152355153
you don't even need to pirate their software, the alternatives are better
adobe shouldn't even be mentioned in creative circles out of spite anymore

>>152355172
People say this but it's not actually true. The alternatives are all complicated node-based industry programs. Animate is the only one that's simple to use.
"There are alternatives" is not an excuse for just taking something off the market and never letting people use it again.

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>>152355120
This is one of the many automated e-mails being sent out to users who still pay for it, unfortunately.

>>152355197
>t.stockholm syndrome

>>152355120
So what's gonna happen to Teen Titans Go? The show is animated using adobe

>>152355371
Gumball and Smiling Friends as well. Dunno about others.

>>152355371
Not just Teen Titans Go, think for a minute, Anon. This will impact any and all projects still dependent on the latest version of AnimateCC.
>Smiling Friends
>Bridge Kids
>Animator vs. Animation
>Space King
>MeatCanyon
>Friday Night Funkin'
>Madness Combat
>Mewgenics

There probably more if anyone's willing to list them.

>>152355566
Virtually every Titmouse show ever

>>152355172
>>152355120

What's a good free or cheap alternative anon

>>152355172
What are the alternatives?

RIP Homestar Runner

So what's the latest pirate cracked version that these ghouls can't take away?

>>152355371
>>152355530
>>152355566
>>152355657
Adobe Enterprise accounts (which I assume most of these shows are using) can still use Animate until March 2029 instead of 2027 like individual users. That's probably enough time to switch to ToonBoom.

Well if they're abandoning it why not make it open source?

>>152355724
nta, but a lot of people are recommending Moho, ToonBoom, or CSP.

You could also use an older version of Flash (MX 2004, 8, CS6) but you'll have to bear with any bugs they might have.

>>152355940
Because the company is run by faggy stuck up rich people who think nobody should get to have anything they own even if they aren't using it anymore.

>>152355940
Because that would mean letting those shitty poor people own things and that burns their ass.

>>152355955
Can you link to an older version to use?

>>152355982
They cannot even stop people from pirating photoshop, they will have neither the means nor the will to stop people from pirating Animate. It's dubious if they'll even have any legal basis for complaining about it since they not only discontinued the product but will not even have a comparable product for sale. They're basically washing their hands of animation software, so they don't really have any basis for objecting to people taking what they have abandoned and using it.

>>152355120
So this is how it ends. The competency crisis will destroy all of the animation software, and they'll HAVE to come crawling back to hand drawn.

>>152356034
There's still Toonboom and other software out there. Animate is popular because it's one of the easiest to learn and use, sure, but it's not the only easy animation solution.

>>152355724
>>152355744
copypasting from animation general thread from /ic/:

https://opentoonz.github.io/e/
https://www.synfig.org/

there is also
https://krita.org/en/
if your pc is good and has like at least over 8gb of ram it will run nicely.


learn where to get tvpaint and older adobe flash animating cracked downloads its way better tho.
>>152356009
i'm spoon feeding you at this point, here from my files

aHR0cHM6Ly9waXhlbGRyYWluLmNvbS91L1dEbWdRc3dx
use base64decode.org/ to decode

>>152356049
I rather stick with Animate. Harmony is expensive, bloated and gets shittier every year since the company got sold

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>the canadian animation industry implodes
I have no fucking clue what the point of this is
Did someone at Adobe get drunk? What are THEY suggesting you use if you for some absurd reason want to stay in the Adobe ecosystem?

>>152355955
Anyone reading this right now please please please buy moho it's a one time purchase and you get access to it forever. It's literally better than both toonboom and CSP and if you need proof go to their YouTube. I love it and it's so easy to use and it's so much better than buying a stupid subscription

You do realize people can still use the program right? It's just not gonna be continued anymore.

>>152356182
>You do realize people can still use the program right?
Can you? You don't own Adobe software anymore, you pay monthly for access if you bought it legally

>>152356182
No, not after March 2027. All the files become unusable.

Unless you use a pirated version

>>152356175
when it gets to be bought in south america by a reasonable price i will buy it in a jiffy,

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>>152356204
>>152356206
Yes, that's what I was trying to saying

>>152356204
>>152356206
Nobody who pays for it has any reason to not pirate it.

>>152355566
Why didn't they switch to Toon Boom or Clip Studio?

>>152356122
>https://www.synfig.org/

it's not as easy to pick up and use like flash, i've tried it.

>>152356206
This is the real issue. Switching software is easy but what are we suppose to do with our now incompatible .fla files?

>>152356251
The average individual yes
But they do care if larger studios like Disney or something pirate software
https://www.techdirt.com/2009/10/12/nbc-sued-for-over-2-million-for-infringing-on-a-font/

>>152356160
>I have no fucking clue what the point of this is
One step closer to being the 51st state.

But seriously, wasn't Adobe declared buggy and secured like a sieve? It's probably high time to move on. Before the Americans start blocking the doorway with their feet.

>>152355153
They're not disabling Animate completely. If you have it, you can continue to use it (assuming you keep paying your subscription), but you will no longer be able to download it and they won't be providing support, bug fixes, or updates after the next year.
This does give people time to transition to something else, but it fucks any large-scale production that established a pipeline based on Adobe Animate. If they want to keep archived versions of old project files, they'll need to start figuring out ways to export all the assets in different formats to recreate in other software. Either that, or they have to resign themselves to only having rendered versions of their files which may be problematic if they want to do future remastered re-releases or anything like that.

>>152355371
>>152355530
>>152355566
They'll probably continue using animate for the next season/batch of episodes since the software won't be disabled, but will need to spend a ton of cash re-creating their pipeline in other software to avoid potential issues moving forward.

>>152355940
Anon that post is highly antisemitic

>>152355120
The investor everything into Firefly, they're going 100% AI

>>152356310
There's no copyright to infringe on in the case of abandonware. They're not selling it, they're not developing it, they're not even selling or developing anything with a similar functionality. If they try to sue people for pirating it the judge just has to ask what possible harm could be caused to Adobe's business by doing so. It would arguably be called fair use at that point.

>>152355940
>why not make it open source?
because it's their IP and they won't want to just give that away. They may be holding out to potentially sell to someone else for the right price, or they might just say "fuck you" and keep it locked away so they don't have competition if they decide to make some other animation software down the line.

They SHOULD create a tool that will automate mass exports of files into other formats that can be used by other programs, though. They won't, but that would be the appropriate thing to do.

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>>152356325
You can try that but Adobe is big and you are small

>>152356374
did you respond to the wrong person? I don't get how that applies to anything I said.

>>152356374
Meant to reply to >>152356349

>>152356175
>moho
I heard it's bloat.

>>152355231
>we encourage you to export your Animate files to other formats
>such as SWF
Is this a fucking joke?

>>152356268
There's a lot of digital animators who are already well-versed and trained within the Flash/Animate ecosystem. Getting used to a different software takes time most of these productions stick with what they know.

>>152356988
>>152356268
Yeah, they'd need to completely retool their pipeline to work with the new software (which sometimes can be adapted 1:1, but a lot of times requires completely different working methods) and potentially hire new staff. While basic art skills and production concepts transfer from app to app, people tend to specialize in a specific platform which they get to know REALLY well. They know all the quirks, hacks, workarounds, shortcuts, and can essentially tackle any problem that comes their way in that one specific environment. Learning new software is possible, but it slows you WAY down so it's not really something you can do on the job if you want to stay on top of work load.
A lot of studios that rely on Animate as well as individual artists are going to have a rough go of it.

>>152356988
Or it's just cause Adobe is the CHEAPEST OPTION. Yeah, even with the subscription shit, its way cheaper than Toonboom.

>>152355153
>Piracy will still work, right?
Of course it will, it's been part of Adobe's MO for a decade plus

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>>152356988
>>152357124
On the topic of this, Linuxfags somehow fail to understand this simple fact
YOU can switch to FOSS and be fine, but 90% of businesses have been using Windows since the early 90s, are trained on Windows, and only have software that natively works on Windows
The adage of "Linux is free if you don't value your time" applies tenfold here, Joe Public isn't going to learn to sudo or whatever because of your moralistic grandstanding, they don't have the time or resources

>>152357617
Yeah. I'd have no problem making the switch if software I needed was also available on Linux. Sure, there are solutions that allow you to make similar things, but if you need to fit into the workflow of an existing studio or company, there are going to be compatibility issues. Sometimes people are okay with you just delivering assets, but a lot of times they want access to raw files which you may or may not be able to deliver.

>>152357617
I'm sure no enterprise is considering if the pain of adopting a new workflow is worth the possibility of having their most core software that their entire workflow relies on being evaporated overnight.

>>152357911
I think you're missing the point. Anon isn't saying that studios aren't going to switch now that Animate is on its way out. They're all going to find alternative solutions, but tools are standardized for a reason. People will use widely adopted platforms because it's easier for other people to integrate into the system. The example of Linux is apt because while there are plenty of benefits to using that OS, it's not practical if it would require the entire staff to learn a new OS (or cut down your potential pool of talent by requiring experience with outlier software).

>>152356034
The general idea is to send everyone into using AI since now their files are gone.

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>>152358863
They're going to have to animate on paper, trace the sketches with a pigma pen, scan it in, color each frame in photoshop, and then paste it into windows movie maker. Just like Regular Show or Disney Renaissance films or Big City Greens.

>>152355120
Has adobe ever made a good decision? they get worse and worse each year.

They'll probably move to Blender like other anons said but fuck, they could've given people some warning so they can export their shit in time. This is just plain hostile. People will just hate AI more after getting slapped in the face like this.

>>152358863
not everyone is okay with making bullshit. Some people actually have some semblance of artistic vision.

This doesn't affect piratechads.

>>152359048
they're cocky because they captured a chunk of the market and can't possibly imagine people moving to alternatives. They're the industry standard for now and think they will be forever. They're in the "fuck around" phase of their empire.

>>152355120
Can someone explain what this means and why it's happening?

I'm confused, can they not just draw the shit on paper and scan it with a scanner and stitch the frames together?

>>152359363
Theoretically but it'd be a massive pain in the ass to suddenly switch mediums and workflows like that after years of doing it digitally.

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Crash my file into pieces!, animate has end of life
immediately!, no precaution
Adobe doesn't give fuck if i need this for work!
animate has end of life

>>152359310
Yuck. I just hopefully they crumble until they try to monopolizes and buy up other companies. Imagining a world where every creative process has to run through them sickens me to my core.

>>152359335
Adobe animate is software that a lot of studios use to create cartoons. Adobe announced that they are discontinuing the software which means a lot of artists and studios are kind of fucked.
It's anyone's guess why Adobe is discontinuing the software, but the abrupt announcement puts a lot of studios in a tough place. Studios will obviously pivot to new platforms, but a lot of shows recycle assets which will require re-making those assets in new software and unless studios export every single element of every single episode of every single show they've done in the past, they'll lose access to their source files which could be problematic for stuff like re-releasing episodes in different aspect ratios, higher quality, doing clip shows, etc. In general, having access to your project files gives you a lot of flexibility for whatever the future might throw at you.
If you've ever used any creative software, you'll know that people tend to learn one environment very very well. Studios that build their pipeline around the use of Adobe Animate not only craft their entire workflow around the software, but also hire talent that is well-trained in it. Moving to a new platform will be extremely expensive, time consuming, and may require anything from delaying future seasons to replacing staff members while studios scramble to adapt.

Software comes and goes, but the sudden announcement with very little lead time was a dick move on Adobe's part. It's pro software, so letting people know that it will be phased out with a few years advanced notice would have been the professional thing to do so creators could find alternate solutions. Even better if they made a tool to make exporting projects to other formats easier.

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>like cartoons, draw cartoon art because Im a hack
>Think about animating in animate (2018 version because lel at gay cloud shit
>Procrastinate and never learn it
Once again I have won by doing nothing.

>>152359363
Not with current production schedules. When people used to do this, there was a much slower pipeline with stuff like final approvals and "locks" in place. At every step of the pipeline, work would be approved and then moved onto the next step and that was that.

Digital production methods made things faster and infinitely more editable, but that also means that there's basically no such thing as a final version until an episode is basically airing. People have gotten used to last minute edits at pretty much every step of the production process. If the files you're working with are vectors or puppets, it's not a big deal to change things last minute like that. If you're scanning pen drawings, it's a MUCH bigger deal to make edits.

While it would technically be possible to go back to pen/paper pipeline, it would require a radically different mindselt when it came to how to run a production (which has mostly been lost) and would also require production schedules to be a lot longer than they are now.

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Filthy dalits will have nothing. No one will get to redeem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm51xZHZI6g

What are the odds everyone takes this on the chin and learns shit like blender? Bet the companies wouldn't mind using something free and netflix is already investing in it.

>>152355120
Why can't they just let us use the deprecated software? It costs them nothing.

>>152359954
Because they hate you.

>>152359505
Thanks buddy

>>152359505
Yeah, pretty much.

>>152359954
because mainstream production facilities can't risk having to deal with tech issues while they hold their dick in their hands. You need software that you can rely on to work no matter what system updates you might deal with, new industry standards that may pop up, etc. And if there are any tech issues, you want to be able to get in touch with tech support to figure out what the problem is.

Using deprecated software as a hobbyist or an indie production is less problematic and there are likely going to be people who go that route, but pro studios that are dealing with multi-million dollar budgets can't afford to have issues that may delay production. You need to know your software is going to work, and if it isn't, that you'll be able to get it back online ASAP with the help of experts.

This is basically the same thing that happened when Unity tried to rugpull devs by making them pay a fee everytime someone installed a game that ran on the engine, except here Adobe will probably get away with it because this mostly effects the 2D cartoon industry, which is an industry a lot of people don't care about, and one that's mostly clustered in specific companies unlike Unity, which is used worldwide on everything from niche one-man indie games to large big-budget games with multimillion dollar budgets.
Chances are, Adobe will not back down like Unity did.

>>152355566
>Mewgenics
Should've released a long time ago, I think Breadmund working on TEiN and Bumbo fucked up the release date. Isn't Mewgenics coming out later this year?

>>152360115
>Using deprecated software as a hobbyist or an indie production is less problematic and there are likely going to be people who go that route, but pro studios that are dealing with multi-million dollar budgets can't afford to have issues that may delay production.
There's still TV shows using this software though. It's going to fuck up their production pipeline having to switch to something else their animators might not be familiar with, while trying to make it look and move the same as it used to.

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>>152360148
>Isn't Mewgenics coming out later this year?
It's coming IN LESS THAN 10 DAYS.
https://youtu.be/s8X4X-WeT5w?si=rEYMGb833LZH01Fd

If Ed & Tyler have plans to add new content to Mewgenics in the future, they either need to use older versions of Flash or create an open source alternative before March 1, 2027.

>>152360177
Maybe this won't be such a bad thing? Would most audiences notice a subtle style change from Adobe Animate to something like Blender or ToonBoom?

>>152360177
I don't disagree. Studios WILL use the software until they can feasibly move to something else, but I was answering why studios wouldn't want to continue using deprecated software. They will use Adobe Animate as long as they have to, but nobody is going to plan on continuing to use it as a solution moving forward.

>>152359954
They don't want you to know this but once it's abandonware a cracked version will go on Archive.org where even the normiest of normies can get it easily, for free, without need for shady torrents.
Adobe will then have a hell of a case to make for why redistributing a product they no longer sell is losing them money and such lawsuits would probably cost them more than issuing an EOL statement for a product that's way past its glory days and moving the fuck on.

>>152360677
Good, fuck Adobe, and fuck a lot of these subscription-type software bullshit. Much like ToonBoom and CSP, I gotta fucking buy and upgrade each time they release a patch or new version and I think it's bullshit. A lot of software companies are assholes and have horrible income models. Adobe being the worst.

>>152355120
This kills the Canada Animation. Good

>>152355153
Everyone who used Flash for animation prefers Flash 8 anyway (the last Macromedia version).

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adobe to their customers and the industry

>>152361160
>Everyone who used Flash for animation prefers Flash 8 anyway
I'm still quite surprised that they got Flash right during the mid-2000s once and subsequent versions haven't been able to live up to the original all these years later.

flash 8 didn't have the bones or rigging tools though

>>152355120
I find this good news. For too long, the entire cartoon industry has been dependent on this software, so much to the point that the entire industry became saturated with the same mind-numbing slop. John K made the first ever Flash animation & games with his The Goddamn George Liquor Program way back in the late 90s. Flash was fun during the early days of the Internet, & it sparked sites like Newgrounds & those obscure YouTube animations throughout the 2000s. The Neurotically Yours shorts were my favorite Flash shorts & even some random games, but the people behind it were merely doing the stuff for fun. Once the cartoon industry took the Flashpill, a ton of Canadian cartoons flooded the industry. Shows like Total Drama, 6Teen, & many others were made with Flash. Overtime, Flash became an issue because of vulnerabilities. I still have PTSD from the WinXP days when Flash videos would have Trojan horses & malware. Along comes HTML5, which took over Flash's position. Why HTML5? Because everything in Flash is coded in JavaScript & HTML5 has less vulnerabilities & you can code in Javascript. That's why Flash had to die.

Waahh boo hoo how am I supposed to ruin television with digital puppet garbage if all of the software disappears?

>>152361604
Who still bothers with television animation? Babies??

>>152361633
They don't even know what a TV is. Gen Alpha cannot comprehend a screen that isn't a touchscreen.

>>152359954
I thought about this alot. I think abandonware should be put in public domain. I hate to see old software & video games that's no longer in support just simply removed from existence. Why not put that abandonware on the public domain for everyone to use?

>>152361642
Cus corpo faggots think sitting on said dead software, games and IPs will magically make them money. And then subsequently cry and piss their brains out if someone pirates or emulates a game. One of the few extremely retarded things about corporate-capitalism.

>>152361642
because adobe will argue they might want the chance to have it up for subscription again some years later

>>152355172
>>152355341
There are no alternatives - none that are purely compact, built for, and specializing in: animation. There will never be anything like Flash/Animate, but this is why we archive and yo ho ho..

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You could man up and learn how to do it the real way instead of playing pretend with your keyboard all day like a millennial

The people at Moho are going to be eating good tonight

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You have to do it like Aaron Blaise. He made Brother Bear, and that may be an awful movie, but that's the writers' fault and Joaquin Phoenix's fault. It's well animated so it's not that bad if you watch it on mute.

>hurr do it by hand like in the olden days
bait used to be believable

>>152361831
I doubt anyone here has done extensive paper animation in their lives

>>152361831
Animation used to be believable until people accepted all of the software shortcuts

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when will it come out?

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>>152355120
Don't worry, Adobe Character Animator is fine so you can still make stuff like this with face tracking on your webcam.

>>152359954
You cab use it, but also you can iffi ially go fuck yourself regarding fixes or help, it's at your own risk

>>152355231
Lawl didn't realize they're just going "fuck your source files"

>>152361600
>everything in Flash is coded in JavaScript
You never used flash

>>152361831
There are plenty of ongoing series that are sketched or even inked on paper and then colored & composited digitally

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>>152355120
Guarantee its cause some AI company bought stocks
Soon Adobe is gonna start advertising AI, and there's gonna be massive uproar. Nothing's gonna be done about it, but they're gonna be upset

>>152355197
Synfig's pretty easy to use. The only reason I picked it up easy was because I used Flash when it was still called Macro Media.

>>152356274
Just takes a bit of getting used to. Like transitioning from Photoshop to Gimp. Its also real compatible with Gimp, turning paths into vectors by exporting them as svg files then importing them in synfig. You can make some really complex vectors.

>>152361574
Most of Adobe's changes were developer-oriented and made it resemble an IDE like Visual Studio.

>>152357617
>Linux is free if you don't value your time
This isn't true anymore. Maybe back in the early 2000's, sure but today, you boot from a usb drive and it goes. Been using ubuntu since I moved from win7. Never even used the terminal once.

>>152361593
Yeah I am lifting that perception from die-hard frame-by-framers like Harry Partridge.

>>152361774
I've always wondered how god-tier you have to be to do this. Like, the characters had composition sketches obviously, but when it comes time to animate, you're just looking at the last frame and doing complete lineart with no base sketch because otherwise it'd take 50x longer.

>>152361848
I did. I used onion skin paper and had a video cam when I was 12. Also, I'm pretty sure anyone here had tried animating stick figures on the side of books with hundreds of pages. It was fun making the stick figures fight while you flip the pages.

>>152363178
The next frame is the middle page and the first frame is the bottom page, so you draw all of the details in between the two

>>152359505
assets and adobe libraries and also everything else when you rely on a software, the scripting and TDs, troubleshooting, compatibility with other software in the pipeline and everyone’s devices/OS. i feel for the teams that need to deal with this, it might seem in the process like it would have been easier to switch to paper

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>>152361831
Das rite boi, pick up the pencil and paper and get to work.

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>>152363488
Get with the times. Every animated character should look like this.

>>152359954
They want people to use their new Ai nonsense.

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What is the point of 2D rigged animation when the shows that pick this only make 10 episodes every 2-3 years. The main selling point is that you frontload all of the work so, in theory, you can produce more episodes quicker at a lower cost.

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>>152361641
Thankfully they make TVs with touchscreens now. But modern TVs also come with apps like Youtube, TikTok, and select streaming services so it defeats the point of television and is basically just a big tablet.

>>152359954
>It costs them nothing.
Exactly, they want money. It's clear by now that anyone doing anything without paying someone else for the privilege is a leech and a parasite and needs to be castrated.

>>152363719
Because it's throw-away low-cost animation trying to see if it will stick and get the biggest return on investment possible. Big Mouth, Family Guy, and other mainstream slop makes big bucks on what is essentially just glorified animation rigging.

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oh fuuuuuuuuuuck

These anti-consumer practices all trace back to Dodge vs. Ford Motor Company (1919 Supreme Court case)
A corporation’s primary obligation is to increase value for its shareholders, not to improve things for its employees or the customers

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>>152364636
Doesn't seem to be going too well for them.

Bet $10 that this means adobe has a vector Ai platform coming out in the near future. So basically all rigged puppet style animation will be ai, this might make 2d more valuable but puppet will be worthless

>>152355940
>muh communism

>>152364636
This has more to do with current philosophies on live service software than "line must go up".
The idea is that if you're not constantly innovating and updating the software, then it's dead and you should replace it with something new that you can innovate and update. Like I currently use Word 2010. It's dead software, it doesn't change. But ooooooh, why am I not using Office 365, it does update and change. Gotta updoot. Gotta change. I need my word processor to have new buttons every few months, and oh that copilot is absolutely necessary.

>>152364732
They do have a new AI program coming out, it’s called Firefly. You will generate your projects through AI.

>>152364900
And you’ll be happy

>>152364686
lmao what was adobe thinking

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>>152363719
Toon Boom is a bit schizophrenic how much it advertises its motion tween rigging, when the real reason why its a powerful tool is how its brush tool works. Instead of the vector point being in the middle of the black line, you first draw a line with brush tool, then the program draws a vector line around the black edges.

That makes it much more accurate to use and much easier when time comes to click colors in with paint bucket. Toon Boom is basically what if Flash had a baby with Photoshop, it is a genuinely great animation program, if only Disney would stop being price-gouging shits with it. The essentials was stripped down of previous tools and that left such a shit taste in my mouth that Harmony 24 was the last fucking one-time license I'll ever buy of Toon Boom. I'd rather learn Grease Pencil in Blender than give the Disney jews any more of my money.

>>152365474
Blender with greasepaint is free right? It would be VERY funny if the industry just adopts blender and ends up saving money in the long run.

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TYLER GLAIEL!

I SEND MY ENERGY TO YOU!

DEVELOP A FLASH IDE TO GO ALONG WITH YOUR SWF DECOMPILER AND RENDERER FOR MEWGENICS!

THINK OF THE MODS!

>>152364762
You suck elite cock, do you?

>>152364762
That's right goy, own nothing and be happy.

>>152364900
>not FireflAI
one jerb

>>152362885
>Nothing's gonna be done about it, but they're gonna be upset
A lot of animators are already moving away from the Adobe ecosystem as Animate was the only thing keeping them there. I realize that the Adobe empire keeps more than just animators system locked, but there are viable alternatives to just about every other service they provide and people are already pissed off about the subscription model. Advertising AI more aggressively may be the final straw for a lot of the people still hanging on.

>>152363558
I want to know more about this character

Interesting how the almost identical thread on /g/ is full of defenders of the multi billion company

>>152363719
>in theory, you can produce more episodes quicker at a lower cost
The cost of animation keeps getting cut as the technology advances, but the profit margin expectations keep growing at a speed that outpaces the money saved. The problem with the model of infinite growth is that it's inherently flawed - at a certain point a product is incapable of outdoing it's previous sales. It's like thinking that every time you run the mile your time should be faster than it was before. Every once in awhile, people break personal records (and sometimes world records), but even if you have the perfect diet, dedicated training regimen, and impossibly well-suited genetics, there's a point where you reach a terminal velocity. The point is that saving more money doesn't mean more animation - it just means that more money gets pocketed and then they try to save even more money so teams get cut down exponentially which means production takes longer.

> only make 10 episodes every 2-3 years
When things were done slower, networks had to order show episodes in bulk. It wasn't uncommon for an entire 3 season show to be ordered at once (especially if it was a toy commercial show). This is because once episodes started airing, they'd need to have more episodes well underway in order to keep things coming out at a reasonable pace. These days execs are allergic to risk so they tend to order as few episodes as possible, let them go to air, and then wait to see how the audience reacts before ordering more. At that point, creative needs to START pre-production on the next episodes so 2-3 years is about right. That gap could be significantly shorter (or even non-existent) if execs took more of a risk and ordered more episodes before they had their precious metrics, but we don't live in that era.

>>152363925
>Thankfully they make TVs with touchscreens now
Who needs to touch the screen of their TV? That sounds fucking stupid.

>>152366929
We're back to getting up to change the channel...

>>152365739
Blender is becoming more of a standard for 3d animation (and is now being used widely for Netflix projects), but greasepaint has a ways to go before it can be a viable alternative for pro industry pipelines.

>>152366597
that spelling makes me read it like Cartman

>>152364900
This is their problem, from a business perspective having everyone working from the cloud makes sense and you can charge them a lot but AI as it is with the competition. They're Firefly model is already behind everyone else's and others are giving away for free. They bet the farm on AI without really understanding how to incorporate it into their packages. They just wanted the investors money so they just ran out and said ai. No they didn't build from the idea of having a tool they built from the idea of forcing their existing customer base into the cloud and forcing them to use AI. Again they're not actually incorporating the AI into existing systems they're just replacing their existing products with AI. This is the problem with being AI driven instead of AI focused.

>>152366896
wasn't there on the /g/ board. why were they acting like this?

>>152355566
>A bunch of fucking trash won't be animated anymore
Tell me how this is a bad thing?

>>152367092
All that shows those woke people now we can watch nothing but AI slop. With no movement and every single character staring directly into the camera, but hey you might get big titties

>>152367120
Wanna try that again, ESL?

>>152367087
>>>/g/108049004
Just the usual underpaid pr wagies

>>152367162
ew that corpo bootlicking

>>152367150
He's saying you sure showed those wokies, now we can watch nothing but AI slop that looks like absolute shit.

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Hey Animators
Now is your chance to get Moho and never use a subscription for animation again

>>152367429
did you at least get a happy meal out of this ad

>>152355371
Wtf I love Adobe now.

>>152356971
They probably had Grok write the email.

>>152355120
Does this mean that those animation studios are going to switch their pipeline to other animation software, i.e. ToonBoom, TVPaint, Grease Pencil in Blender?

>>152368701
They probably will have to.
And if Adobe tries to back peddle, well the damage will be done and nobody will trust them again.
Or that’s what I’d hope considering this situation reminds me of the Unity engine bullshit a while ago now.

>>152368701
Yes, but not right now - not for a while.
I wonder if these studios are going to actually try and fight this shit or if they'll roll over and take it.

>>152367087
Adobe shills trying in vain to do damage control, I think

>>152368701
Grease Pencil isn't really the ideal alternative for Flash/Animate. It can do 2D well, but still needs some things to be ironed out for it to be a good alternative. It was more to accommodate in harmony with 3D animation, which means used for textures, motion lines, etc.

>>152367429
>still 300 + tax even with the discount

>>152367429
Can you make traditional-style frame by frame animation with it? Because it just seems it's tailored for puppetering/tweening animation.

It is time we all returned to Macromedia Flash 8.

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>>152367429
I'm interested

>>152369139
GOONER PROGRAM DETECTED

>>152369080
Its "japanese" software its what a lot of anime studios use. Its literally for framebyframe trad animation. It was also called anime studio at first

The other software used in Japan is opensource from ghibil. Clip studio is the standard tho

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I wonder why they're discontinuing their massively popular animation software...
It's not like it's gonna get any LESS popular, so why... oh it's 'cuz of the higher-ups being suckered into ai. ok.

Perhaps it's for the best though, since adobe has always sucked.

>>152368790
>>152368701
Maybe they'll try making an open source alternative? There's a small amount of developers that have cracked the SWF format to develop things such as Flash emulators and even decompilers that convert SWFs into FLAs. How hard would it really be to make that, but you can additionally draw vectors, add frames, create tweens, and new symbols?

This literally would be a non issue if they didn’t also say “by the way our kill switch won’t allow you to open the program anymore meaning you can’t open your flas lmfao get fucked”

>>152369071
just ask for the student discount and provide some random school name and you and you can snag it for $240, but with the 100 dollar discount right now it's $140 instead
https://moho.lostmarble.com/pages/education

>>152367429
Why do you keep trying to push this shit on every board? If I hear about MoHo one more time, I’m gonna scream!

>>152355197
>Animate is the only one that's simple to use.
Toonsquid

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>>152355120
there are literally shows with better animation being made to this day in microsoft paint than flash ever had with the exception of Wakfu, lol.

>>152355783
They always just used ancient standalone versions of Flash. I think the bulk of the site was made in Flash 5, for instance.

>>152364763
>The idea is that if you're not constantly innovating and updating the software, then it's dead and you should replace it with something new that you can innovate and update.
The reason for this is line go up — in business today you need a story of constant innovation to justify your continued existence, because you exist to generate profit for someone.

>>152364732
Trying to make AI a puppet animator is actually a smart solution to the fact that it can’t be trusted to inbetween or design characters, but it’s clearly a decision made by someone who has no idea how to make a cartoon and is desperately trying to recoup their loss on the AI grift before losing face.

>>152355371
>>152355530
>>152355566
Companies usually offer legacy support to VIP clients for at least a few years after they do stuff like this. It'll just be the general public affected at first most likely.
>>152355937
Subscription models are/were a mistake. If you have an old copy of Flash from when it was a "buy it once and then have that version forever" software it still works. No one can come in and disable it from your computer. It should be illegal for companies to design software in this way: "especially since all the excuses about security and performance are all lies. I remember in 2009-2010-ish when the app store first started taking off and all the tech bros were bragging on the internet that they went to a seminar and this new "subscription model" was going to turn them all into millionaires. There was no other reason to it, it was always about money.

That being said, I'm almost certain these guys could just set up a custom rule in their firewall to block it from connecting to the Adobe server and they could still just use it offline forever. If you're really worried about"security " then have a work computer you don't connect to the Internet.

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>>152369949
When has stacking shit ontop of shit ever failed?

>>152369977
>No one can come in and disable it from your computer.
Stop being antisemitic anon.

>>152356175
Also has a $100 discount right now with code: FORANIMATORS apparently. Never heard of it, though.
>>152356305
>>152356325
>>152357124
All the animation studios should go in and sue Adobe. I don't know if it would work (I'm not a lawyer) but the entertainment industry is important enough to California I could see them siding with Hollywood and Adobe has kind of been asking for it. I would make the argument they didn't give them enough of a notice and it will cause a seven to eight figure cost incurrence for them to migrate after they were already sold the product.

>>152358954
Can you imagine how mad they would get if they actually did this instead of switching to A.I. Altman would probably sue Hollywood.

>>152369080
really easy rigging is it's main draw but frame by frame does exist in the software, I used it last night
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpoAmpBllGg

>>152359310
Many such cases. Reminds me the story of Solomon's son Rehoboam who thought he would always be king no matter what he did because he had never known a life where his family didn't rule over the Israelites.

>>152369185
>opensource from ghibil
Sauce please?

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>>152355120
Flash has been buggy as shit since CS6 and would crash a lot. It always felt like sometimes Adobe neglected Animate and never really cared about fixing it up. Every new version would just be worst than the last one. Something you have to pay a fucking subscription for only for it to be axed down the line is diabolical. Nothing out of the ordinary for Adobe nowadays.

>>152370157
Previous post had the wrong link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toonz
https://opentoonz.github.io/e/

>>152370099
>All the animation studios should go in and sue Adobe
For what? Adobe is free to discontinue software whenever they want. It fucking sucks that they did it, but legally I don't think any studio would have ground to stand on. Adobe giving people more advanced notice would have been nice, but they can't be held legally accountable just because they didn't.

All that said, it seems that they're walking back their cancellation a bit and there will be a slightly longer grace period now. That said, the writing is on the wall. Aside from janky ass Moho, there really isn't any other vector based animation software out there.

I get the companies are fucked but are individuals who just pirate the latest version set for life?

>>152358954
If studios realized they could make even more money auctioning those drawings instead of throwing them out, we would have a shorts renaissance before the bubble popped

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animate is no longer being revoked

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>>152370290
Corporate damage control.

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>>152370290
And you believe them?

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Adobe cucked out, Animate's fine. Kek, the dumbasses really thought this would go well.

>>152355120
Damn, so what software is left then?

>>152370284
Disney still hoards it all in their vault, I remember seeing one of their documentaries with Eric Goldberg where they pulled out the entire Lion King pencils in order and it was just a folding table covered with 2' of paper.

>>152370257
you'll have to make sure to keep a computer around that you basically never update JUST to run Animate.

>>152360941
>Little Bear
>Franklin
>"flash"

>>152370403
Is the software that shit? I mean, I have a copy of Microsoft works word processor that runs fine on a modern windows 11 computer despite being made over twenty years ago (Wordpad never felt right to me, weird that Microsoft got rid of it tho).

Adobe software must be aids to work with.

>>152370290
imagine trusting adobe again

>>152370574
Word is an extremely lightweight piece of software in comparison to anything having to do with animation or video production. The more complex something is, the more breakable it is since it will rely on more cutting edge tech which can, eventually, become outdated and replaced entirely with something newer (which the software may not be able to work with if it's not being updated).
There are also potential security risks so it's possible you can update to a version of your OS that will no longer permit you to run the old software.

>>152370290
Did they simply not know just how many TV series use the software? I'm pretty sure It's second only behind toon boom.

>>152370834
They fucking knew. They just didn't anticipate their stock tanking so hard so quickly, so they're reversing course to please the shareholders. Don't kid yourself into thinking the decision was made to help out creators.

>>152370290
>>152370319
Don't believe these cunts. Keep complaining to them and keep letting them know you won't stand for this shit, and start learning something new in the background. They'll probably try to pull this shit again in 2029 when they originally planned on fully ending access to everybody.

Whoever is first to make an open source or even pay-to-own carbon copy is going to be one rich motherfucker, so get working.

>>152370969
yeah - this is not a forever decision. They're trying to take control of the narrative and prevent backlash (like people leaving their ecosystem entirely). Animate is still on the chopping block, so it would be prudent for anyone who relies on it to start crunching through tutorials in something new.

On the plus side, if Moho gets their shit together, fixes their buggy-ass software, and has a sale, they could seize the opportunity to become a major player in the animation scene.

>>152370834
They don’t know how many TV series use their software. They know HOW MANY, but they do not know HOW, so they shot themselves in the foot taking the HOW MANY for granted.

>>152370290
OK good.
Seriously, it was such an unbelievable notion.
>>152370969
this isn't something you can sneak past people, when it happens again, people will complain AGAIN. Adobe doesn't get how cemented into the WORLD'S culture flash is.
But you're right, this *is* a sign for everyone to search for an alternative.

>>152370290
MY ASS.

>>152370290
>>152370834
What are the odds Warner (or some other major big TV studio) threatened to sue them?

>>152371309
Warner? owner of Cartoon Network? Who's biggest success just so happens to be the flash-animated Teen Titans Go? With a sisterblock hosting it's successful adult flash-animated show, Smiling Friends?

>>152363126
It's still true for desktops if you do anything more complex than browsing facebook (or using it as a server, which it is meant to be used for).

>>152366747
>>152363558
Looks like a character out of Sinfest.

>>152363719
Because the idea isn't to make more episodes, it's to make the same amount of episodes with less work and consequently far less costs. It's why companies are pumping trillions into AI because it can do eight second surreal animations - string two hundred of those together and you got a cartoon episode done and all you have to do is dick around in a prompt for a weekend.

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>>152355120
The age of AI animation is right around the corner. tick tock, LGBT "artists"!

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>>152371507
Your bait is no good here. Being replaced by Google Gemini is less terrifying than what was considered normal less than 20 years ago.

>>152370224
That's what I'm not sure. They would just have to say: they sold us this and then discontinued it and it's going to cost us millions of dollars and let their lawyers figure it out. California laws are the silliest in the nation you can actually argue someone's action lead you to have a reasonable assumption and that constitutes a legally binding contract. I believe it's called Priori Estoppel.

>>152370622
See? This is the B.S. I was talking about. Once it's stable it's not going to just break suddenly unless it's connected to an online database that sends it a signal to brick it. They just lie to you and say it will/muh security to get you to connect to their cloud so they can both spy on you and break it when they decide you have to buy new product and then use the excuse that you have to be connected to charge you a subscription fee.

Add a custom rule to your windows firewall saying it's not allowed to connect to external sources and you'll literally never have a problem unless you update your Windows because they'll do the same thing. If you stop your Windows from connecting to Microsoft you'll be and to run whatever version of the software you have forever without issue

So no more adobe animation related things?

>>152371488
Only while the law is still in limbo and the energy and storage cost is subsidized, which is why they’re setting shit on fire as fast as they can

>>152371309
None. What are they going to sue them for? Companies are allowed to deprecate their software whenever they like. There's no grounds for a lawsuit.

>>152371699
You can still do everything in After Effects. Archer was made in Adobe After Effects.

>>152369720
>pangeafag

>>152371766
>everything
no. You can import Illustrator files into After Effects to use as puppets which is what they did for Archer, but you won't be drawing or doing frame by frame animation there. Moho is going to be the closest thing to the vector animation you could do in Adobe Animate/Flash, but it can be kind of buggy.

>>152371730
>What are they going to sue them for?
That after paying them an Adobe subscription for years they just decided to make their animation assets (the .fla files) completely unusable?

There were definitely grounds for a lawsuit even if Adobe would have probably just won at the end.

>>152372264
The files won't be unusable. The software will be discontinued on March 1, 2026, but if you already use Animate, you can continue to use it until March 1, 2029 which gives users 3 years to get files converted and/or exported to different formats.
This really sucks for people who built a pipeline based on Animate because it will obviously be a lot of work plus will require retooling of entire studios, but Adobe has lawyers who have covered their ass. It's extremely inconvenient and screws over animators who have built a career out of being Animate experts, but there's nothing to sue Adobe for.

>>152371595
Wish I could afford a setup like that. But alas, I'm a poor third-worlder in North Africa.

>>152355120
Evidently awkward zombie is loosing tons of her original comic files because they are also killing the related cloud storage.

>>152372317
>but Adobe has lawyers who have covered their ass
Given how quickly they backtracked, I'm guessing those lawyers had a second opinion.

The risk of lawsuit for Adobe was obvious: Disney, Netflix, Warner, etc own assets made in Adobe Animate that would have been made unusable, despite Adobe being able to avoid it.

>>152370316
In the short term I'd go along with it for the sake of finishing my current projects. In the long term after such a move I'm looking at alternatives, preferably something not on the subscription model.

>>152372512
>Given how quickly they backtracked
I think that had more to do with their plummeting stock than any legal threats.
see pic below:
>>152364686

>Disney, Netflix, Warner, etc own assets made in Adobe Animate
Yes, and it doesn't matter. Adobe is giving them a 3 year grace period to get their assets exported and/or converted to other formats. Adobe has the right to discontinue their software. They aren't beholden to keeping it running forever just because big companies use it.
Again, it sucks, but there's no LEGAL grounds for a lawsuit. I don't know why you seem to think there is.

>>152372549
>>152372317
>Adobe is giving them a 3 year grace period to get their assets exported and/or converted to other formats.
Hey faggot, what part of "Adobe backtracked" you didn't get? Stop being a shill
>They aren't beholden to keeping it running forever just because big companies use it.
Those companies or the judges might have had a second opinion. (Not to mention, they literally could have let it run it forever by making it open source, or at least not setting it to selfdestruct after X years).

>>152372598
Still no legal recourse. Find me a case precedent to prove me wrong or a law that would give any lawsuit legs.
I'm not being a shill. I fucking hate Adobe and I think discontinuing Animate fucking sucks, but my point this entire time is that nobody can sue Adobe over this no matter how mad they are.

>>152372864
shut up bitch nigga lmfao running defense attorney for some megacorp for nothing

>>152372883
I accept your concession

I’ve been doing shorts using AI now since last year. The last few months it feels like the output is light years ahead of what I was doing 6 months ago. It’s gotten to the point where I have a character interact with something real world instead of animated which opened up a whole new can of worms of stories for me. I get 5-7 mins a day done by myself and a friend doing the editing and sound work.

So Adobe is discontinuing Animate, I could give a fuck less. Goodbye. Won’t even miss it. And when this post gets a ton of hate, I’ll laugh at you cavemen with your wall paintings. Good luck you dinosaurs who vilify AI.

>>152372939
tasteless faggot detected

>>152355172
What's better than Photoshop and Premiere? I have Magic Vegas but Premiere just does stuff better with embedded sequences.

>>152373057
DaVinci Resolve is a great alternative for video stuff

>>152373127
Oh yeah, Ive heard about DaVinci. I'll give it a try.

>>152371446
Then wtf have I been using for the psst several years? Steam decks run on Linux with 95% game compatibility. What more complex thing do you do with a desktop? Running really light open source apps on it feels like those apps were made for that OS.

>>152356160
Adobe has been run by some of the biggest retards in existence for a while now

>>152370290
For now.

>>152361712
I'm not saying it's easy, but there's like so many programming languages and a few solid UI toolkits. Anybody can create any software that they wanted. Or modify an existing one

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>>152372939
>done by myself

Are there any good adobe flash replacements? (For making art, animation, games)

>>152369080
Based on my experience, theres 2 types of animation apps. Ones with art tools in them and ones dedicated entirely to animation. The later ones are very stable but you can't draw on them. They have blending, composite, everything but your assets have to come in done. Both graphical and audio assets. You just have to align them during interpolation. Even Gimp can do frame by frame if you're creative enough. Just use layers with different opacities on top of each other. Export them as pngs and import into your animation app of choice. Its not that hard.

>>152363558
Sad if people think this is all you could do with vector rigs. When you realine nothing needs to be an outline because everything can be a region, a lot of things unlock. Most riggers just do it this way because its easy. But if you're really invested, you can put any art style through vector node based animation. You just need to use some blending tech because your outlines are regions.

>>152373349
>Anybody can create any software that they wanted
This is technically possible in the way that anything is, but the scope of building a fully featured animation suite is beyond the capabilities of most single people. There's a reason why teams of people are typically dedicated to this sort of thing, and there's a reason we haven't seen viable open source flash alternatives yet.

>>152370290
This is why you don't put "redeemers" in charge of companies. I can understand wanting to sunset a software product and saying it won't get updates again, but locking everyone out of their own fucking assets is giga retarded. The CEO really thought "Holy shit, that's an amazing idea! We'll just prevent people from opening the program at all. They'll have to use our AI product now!"

>>152372317
You're thinking for current shows. You have to realize there are perhaps millions of legacy files from previous shows and movies they keep in code storage that would also have to be converted within three years or else they would be lost forever. The sheer amount of conversations is infeasible and that's if they can even be successfully converted in the first place.

Regardless the argument isn't if they have a slam dunk victory, it's if it's ambiguous enough that it would have to be settled in court which there is definitely grounds for.

>>152372549
I'm getting the impression you work in tech and don't like the idea of not being able to pump and dump products.

>>152369410
Or just pirate like a normal person lmfao?

>>152372864
Nayara Energy vs Microsoft, but also England of all places successfully penalized video game companies for discontinuing their online servers for multiplayer and now passed a law saying they have to publish the code necessary for customers to self host private servers if they're not going to offer their own for them to use and they're 1,000% more cucked than the U.S.A.

>>152373770
>You have to realize there are perhaps millions of legacy files
I'm well aware. I've pointed this out in previous comments. It really sucks.

>there is definitely grounds for
no there isn't. Again, it would really suck for these project files to become useless, but there's no grounds to sue. Software gets discontinued all the time and people lose access to shit. It blows, but you can't sue a company over it.

>>152373786
>you work in tech
Not even close. I'll reiterate that I think what Adobe is doing fucking blows and I wish they COULD get sued, but that doesn't mean they can. There's no legal grounds.

Your arguments seem to revolve around the idea that the software getting discontinued sucks complete ass so therefore companies can sue Adobe because they're upset. But you can't sue a company just because you're mad at them. Adobe promised a product, they delivered a product, now they're discontinuing the product and have issued *advanced* warning.

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>>152355120
Since they redacted the eradication of the program, I'm looking forward to 2029's "Adobe Animate (Flash) Dies Really For Real This Time, and Won't Come Back (Ever)" thread when they announce its death again with a more strategic (to them) plan in place to forcefully migrate people to something else, and by then people will be so whipped they'll fight back less and buy into the guidance to something "similar" they spent the next few years coordinating.

>>152373822
>by then people will be so whipped they'll fight back less and buy into the guidance to something "similar"
Anyone who doesn't use this time to migrate to something else completely is a fucking retard to deserves what they get. Adobe set the timer. Why would you wait around to see what they serve up next?

Moho put their software on sale. If ToonBoom is smart, they'll do the same. I don't know what the legalities are (or if it's even logistically possible), but it'll sweeten the deal if either of those companies can manage to create a tool that will migrate old Animate projects to either of their platforms

>>152364152
>Oh, the good times are DEFINITELY over...

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>>152373822
With any luck, the AI bubble will begin deflating in a year or two, and this current form of AI (LLMs) will be dead to investors in 3 or 4 years. That is entirely what motivated this retarded decision. They bought into the AI hype, and thought they could force users to use their shitty AI product(s) by revoking access to the user's old files. The main issue with current AI models is they don't actually offer any return on investments. They don't produce value for how much they cost to run. They're only still around now because of investor (and taxpayer) funding. Eventually AI will do really cool shit, but that's years from now, not next year. Hilariously, the one thing AI companies could actually generate money on is the one thing they're terrified to produce, and that's porn. Porn funded the VCR industry, and it could fund the start of the AI one, but nope, that's where these soulless, morally bankrupt, and environmentally devastating companies draw the line.

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>>152364152

>>152374056
They basically have to draw the line there because most of the porn users would make is non-consensual porn of real people (illegal in many places) and/or simulated CP (which isn't necessarily illegal if it's not based on a specific kid but it's utterly catastrophic from a PR standpoint). It's safer for the algorithm to just outlaw porn entirely, but there's no foolproof method for doing that because the whole thing is a black box of bullshit that even its creators can never fully understand.

>>152370622
>Word is an extremely lightweight piece of software in comparison to anything having to do with animation or video production.
That's a fallacy. Animation software is complex, yes but its a question of programming quality i.e. if the program is written well, it'll last FOREVER.

In Adobe's case, it's written to fail so they can kill it at their convenience. A stern reminder of why companies shouldn't use Middleware and instead code their own shit in-house.

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https://helpx.adobe.com/animate/kb/maintenance-mode.html

>>152355120
Bump.

>>152375156
Sometimes software is built to rely on extant OS architecture. This is often the case with anything remotely complex. And when the OS is updated, sometimes bits of the architecture the software relies on breaks or becomes non-existent. Software updates exist to patch these issues when they come up. When software is no longer being updated, you risk having your software stop working after an OS update.

It's not uncommon for creatives to wait a few months after a significant OS update to make sure that the software they regularly use has time to catch up. It would be unfortunate to learn that there are compatibility issues that have yet to be patched when you're in the middle of a big project. This goes for software made by big companies like Adobe as well as homebrew software made by some kid next door. It has nothing to do with how well something is written.

>>152374056
Most tech companies operate by infiltrating a market, running at a loss for as long as possible while they get the public hooked on their new tech and force out the old guys, then once they own the market, they jack prices and start cutting amenities. The service or product becomes thoroughly devalued because it was made available so cheaply for so long. Workers/vendors make less, the public gets a shittier product/experience, and the tech bros cash out and move on to ruin another industry. This is how Netflix, Uber, Amazon, Grubhub, Airbnb, etc all worked.

Tech companies are trying as hard as they can to get the general public hooked on AI right now by cramming into every part of every day life that they can, and while some absolute knobs will use ChatGPT for literally everything, it's not catching on nearly enough to corner any markets. They might be able to game the system if they can convince enough other tech companies to adopt AI as a core component of their service, but I think there's enough resistance that their gambit will fail. And tech bros are terrified that their investments may actually not pay off.

>>152376654
>Sometimes software is built to rely on extant OS architecture.
Yes, a thing I consider bad programming. Being dependent on Windows libraries is the reason a lot of software stops functioning. It's not a question of budget or manpower, the hire ups see long term usage as a liability i.e. "If they can still use the old product, why would they move to the newer product".

In the context of this Adobe software, they want you to move to AI tools, that is all.

>>152365739
Probably not, the feel of drawing stuff on the screen needs to be right to compete with Toon Boom. Problem with Flash or Toonz or other programs is that they work with a rigid vector line, so the black line doesn't always do what your cintiq pen tells it to do, also pressure options can be clunky sometimes. Fixing the small hiccups takes time, let alone painting in colors when you can't just click a paint bucket without constant errors. When you're drawing hundreds of frames by hand you want the program to feel smooth to use.

Grease Pencil has potential but the general "feel" of drawing stuff with it is clunky at best, they need to nail that first. If they can replicate the feel of drawing stuff with Photoshop/Krita/whatever digital drawing program with Grease Pencil, thats when people start regarding the plugin seriously. Blender devs should focus on that first, if they're unsure what the "feel" is supposed to feel like, open Photoshop or Krita, draw something with black ink brush tool. Thats the feel you want.

>>152355197
>>152369657
don't a lot of studios use toon boom?

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>>152374056
>Hilariously, the one thing AI companies could actually generate money on is the one thing they're terrified to produce, and that's porn.
Ironically porn sites are so fed up with constant flood of shitty AI galleries that they have separate AI filters just for AI slop. Rule34 has "filter AI" button, its video site just straight up made a separate containment site for AI slop that nobody really visits. In most sites you have to tag AI content with an AI tag, any AI stuff without the tag gets removed.

Thats going to become a thing in bigger social media sites too, Youtube is cracking down on endless pajeet fake movie trailers already. Theres already been cases where AI deepfakes have been impersonating big company employees, so big sites making AI tags mandatory for AI content is inevitable. AI deepfakes is starting to affect social media sponsors and advertisers, thats how you know the heavy restrictions are coming.

>>152355197
>The alternatives are all complicated node-based industry programs.
Toon Boom has standard timeline-layer layout, node network layout and classic X-sheet layout, you can use whichever you prefer. Toon Boom is the simplest to pick up and learn, the only restrictive part is the stupidly high price.

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>>152370290
>>152355120
It's wild how much of the Animation industry is built on stilts. if any of the main softwares become unavailable, the entire industry might collapse

>>152355120
... SIKE!

If Flash's ActionScript and symbol system hybrid is so good, why hasn't any other software team completely replicated it? Tools like Moho specialize in the animation and vector part of Flash while something like GameMaker specializes on the simple drag n' drop and scripting nature of it.

>>152378996
Not funny. :(

>They rolled it back because the stock tanked
Kek, money talks

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>>152379824
>jumped back up after the rollback
>but nowhere near original levels
Kek, hope the jewery was worth it.

Adobe became the enemy of itself years ago when it went to the cloud. I'm just glad I was able to get the full versions of creative suite free as an employee benefit when I worked for Kinko's back in the day.

I gave my old version keys to my kid to get her into creating. But man, Adobe has become the devil since they moved to cloud. I remember learning to create with flash. Then Adobe took over and consumed.

>>152355120
Newgrounds finally moved Animate/Flash into the legacy section for animation resources. A small silver lining from this is that users in the NG News post about this are also sharing long defunct plug-ins and extensions studios used for shows. Interesting and cool for hobbyists and enthusiasts.

https://www.newgrounds.com/wiki/creator-resources/animation-resources

>>152376845
>Being dependent on Windows libraries [is]
>a thing I consider bad programming.
That's ridiculous. You can get away with that sometimes when the software is dead simple, but it's not practical or even manageable to reinvent the wheel every time. And if companies DID do that, they'd have to charge an awful lot more considering it would require an extra team to redundantly code stuff that the OS already takes care of.

I'm not trying to defend Adobe because they suck as a company, but your assessment that depending on extant OS libraries is bad programming is extremely naive.

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>>152370290
They're gonna pull the same shit again, possibly in favor for AI bullshit. Trusting Adobe based solely on their words is like trusting that a pitbull will safely guard a human baby.

>>152381314
Anyone smart will use this to move to other software and export their stuff if needed.

>>152381314
>Trusting Adobe based solely on their words is like trusting that a pitbull will safely guard a human baby.
Or a politician safely guarding a baby. Hehe.

>>152381314
>They're gonna pull the same shit again
no shit
Anyone who doesn't see the writing on the wall is a moron. Adobe gave everyone an extension to get their files converted and to learn new software, but anyone left holding the bag when they do finally kill it will deserve what they get.

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First time?

>>152381453
>but anyone left holding the bag when they do finally kill it will deserve what they get.
No they don't you retard. That's the scummiest business move ever. Adobe deserve every bad thing to happen to them for this. The US Government suing Adobe wasn't enough.

>>152381567
not him but anyone subscribing to adobe and not pirating their list of software after killing off perpetual licenses is a dumbass. subscription based services is the most kikery thing ever and if any corporation does that, like toonboom for example, which is another industry standard animation software, then they deserved to have their software pirated
that being said, fuck adobe. fuck everything about them. their worst mistake was letting cow shit and piss consuming pajeets run their business into the ground

>>152381567
Are you autistic?

>>152381899
>>152381989
Are you both retarded?

>>152364152
So did they finally get the hang of HTML5 yet?

>>152380845
They'll have to move it back since it is not being removed anymore.

>>152382214
Should probably stay there, to be honest.

Bump0, so nobody can save their files if they use this thing?

>>152373470
Some neuron in my brain activated when you said riggers.

>>152383157
Like Scoob, you can't say that word. Keep it to yourself man, huhuhuah

>>152383278
Ruhehehehehe!

>>152355371
Hopefully that garbage finally dies.

>>152383157
Scooby, you say that one more time and I'm gonna bury a bone in your back yard.

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>>152383527
Raggot.
>inb4 banned for unsanctioned scooby doo rp

>>152355120
And that's why we need MORE free and open source 2D animation software!
They have few alternatives and they want it simple but no GenAI Slop stuff.

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>>152381899
>killing off perpetual licenses
Miss those days. I was gifted a copy of Photoshop CS3 and Premiere CS3 on disc back when they released their software physically and still got them in my CD case to this day.

>>152373816
Unless you can show me proof you're a corporate attorney licenced in the state of California I'm not going to pay attention to anything you say. You're mad that they could get sued over it, you don't want the legal precedent to established into common law. We can all see this. Unfortunately, you're not qualified to make a definitive statement on if they have grounds for a lawsuit because that's a skilled trade.

>>152373816
I like how you're ignoring this has been successfully pulled off in court before because you want to be right >>152373810

>>152373810
>England of all places successfully penalized video game companies for discontinuing their online servers for multiplayer and now passed a law saying they have to publish the code necessary for customers to self host private servers

when did this happen? was this a recent development after the stop killing games campaign?

>>152384105
The Nayara Energy vs Microsoft was not about the same thing. Microsoft cut off Nayara Energy's access to their cloud services in accordance with EU anti-Russian sanctions because Nayara Energy was allegedly
>involved in an economic sector providing a substantial source of revenue to the Government of the Russian Federation
Nayara was set to sue Microsoft to gain access to the cloud because they felt that the sanctions against them (an Indian company) ignored the sovereignty of India.

1) Microsoft reversed course before the case could go to trial so there was never a ruling

2) This is a completely different scenario wherein Microsoft didn't decide to unilaterally shut down their cloud service. They were denying service to one specific company because of their financial ties to another nation.

This would have been a very different case if Microsoft was simply discontinuing their cloud service overall. Nobody would have had grounds to complain. Nayara Energy's complaint was that they were being targeted unfairly. It would have been very different had *everyone* lost service.

https://legal.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/microsoft-restores-services-to-nayara-energy-amid-lawsuit-dispute/123001755

https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/04/nayara_energy_microsoft_india/

>>152384105
>>152385026
Re: video game allegations, the info I can dig up about that dates back to February of 2025.

>The Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) replied to a petition on the matter, saying it has "no plans" to amend UK law to address the phenomenon. It reiterated game sellers "must comply with existing requirements in consumer law and we will continue to monitor this issue."

>"We are aware of issues relating to the life-span of digital content, including video games, and we appreciate the concerns of players of some games that have been discontinued," reads the Department's statement. "However, there is no requirement in UK law for software companies to support older versions of their products. [...] There may be occasions where companies make decisions based on the high running costs of maintaining older servers for games with declining user bases."

There may be updates to this matter, but I'd need an actual article or case filling to see the nitty gritty. From the info I was able to dig up (which admittedly may not be the most recent), it seems that the UK did NOT rule in favor of the people.

>>152384079
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm also not going to agree that Adobe could be sued for this when there's no basis in actual reality for it.

You seem to think that I'm some sort of corporate bootlicker just because I disagree that a company would have legal grounds to sue Adobe over their decision to discontinue their software. If Adobe decides they no longer want to funnel money into supporting one of their products, they are not obligated to continue doing so, nor are they legally required to give up their intellectual property rights by making it open source.

You would have a better argument if people paid for a subscription and then Adobe immediately discontinued the software so people would not be able to use the software they already paid for. That is not the case here. People paid a yearly subscription fee and they will still be able to use the software for the duration of their subscription. The goods that were paid for will be available for use for the duration of the period in which they were paid.

I'll reiterate (YET AGAIN) that I'm not on Adobe's side on this, but I won't agree that they can be sued just because I wish it were true. I've yet to see compelling evidence that there would be any sort of legal grounds for a case.

>>152384279
it didn't

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>>152386240
god i wish. imagine all online games removing themselves from the english market

>>152385101
Looks like the UK decided that discontinuing support for the software did not break any laws. The same would likely apply in the US.

>>152355120
Well that was a fucking lie

>>152355120
The death of Flash killed fan animations and fan games in fandoms. Say what you will about the horse fandom but having games and shorts galore was cash.

>>152372962
Force animators to animate again.