>>152362631
Jason Todd

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I was scared to watch that movie as a kid because I was scared of the Joker, even though Batman Beyond was my favorite cartoon at the time. Looking back, that was definitely a smart move that kept my hypnosis fetish away from complications.

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>>152362631

>>152362631
I think eating all of China still tops it. This is pretty bad for BTAS Harley though. Not all Harley’s though, blowing up all those kids is probably still worse.

didnt he rape batgirl

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The worst thing the Joker has done is not breeding Harley Quinn until she's unable to walk on two feet.

>>152362631
Worse than nuking Metropolis while getting Superman to kill pregnant Lois Lane?

>>152362631
yeah, it's pretty fucked up

>>152362647
The problem with the Joker is that it's all too easy to slide into edgelord bullshit. We all know the comics are never going to kill him and or even limit what he can do so there's no impact when he does something that's meant to be super sick over the top, it just comes off like teenager fanfiction. The trick is to have him do something that's right on the line without crossing over. except you can't tell where that line is.

>>152362631
Tim really can never catch a break

>>152362647
Having the Joker just say these things doesn't give it any kind of impact. Because it's a single line of dialogue it feels more like the Joker (or, more accurately, the writer) is saying shocking things for the sake of being shocking, all while comfortably refusing to go into any sort of detail or provide any kind of visual that would give such a statement more believability. It's all so impersonal and vague.
The torture he subjected Tim to, on the other hand, is more visceral because we see it happen, and worse yet we see it happen to someone we the audience know. It's horrifying because we see the start, middle and aftermath of the whole ordeal, where everyone involved comes out worse (including the Joker himself, since it leads to his death).

>>152362631
Don't worry, the Joker gets raped.

>>152363746
Having the Joker be some demonic super terrorist who tortures children and murders entire families to get a rise out of Batcuck was always fucking stupid and retarded. Joker was always better off as a silly clown themed crime lord whose main motivation is money and having a laugh.

>>152364135
I actually agree, which is partly why I still think what he did to Tim is effective: it was a step too far, and Batman responded appropriately - no more "let the law do its job, if I kill him I'll be just like him" bullshit, Batman is pissed and fully intends on killing the Joker for crossing that line and torturing someone he cared deeply about. Making the torture of Tim Drake the worst thing the Joker has ever done works because it becomes the point where the Joker goes beyond being a clown themed crime lord, and in so doing ultimately gets punished for it with his death (his "reward" for going outside the bounds of his character up to that point).

>>152362631
>This is still the worst thing the Joker's ever done across all media.
The lopunny thing was worst.

>>152362631
The worst is still this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGAtMNn3td0

>>152364251
One thing that helps that is the medium. Subconsciously, we know BTAS still had some restrictions on what the showrunners were allowed to get away with. Doing things to children was kind of a nono.
So when we say THAT world have something like this happen, it DID feel like the Joker crossed some line. Adding to that was the fact the movie had to be released in an uncut version for us to see the full extent of what happened. It all added to the feeling that the Joker really did break something this time.

>>152364251
worth a read
http://web.archive.org/web/20160912041232/http://anbat.toonzone.net/essays/ktj.html

>>152364135
His main motivation was never money. That is a BTASism and shows you’re a tourist who doesn’t even know shit about the character.

>>152364251
And it doesn't strain credibility like the fucking baby soup thing >>152362647 posted. The Joker turning Tim into a mini-version of himself, thereby creating a "Joker-family" (which is itself a fucked up parody of the Bat-Family) is in line with his sense of humor while still being reprehensibly vile. What's the punchline to killing a baby in front of its father then making the father eat the remains?

>>152366334
To be fair, we don't know for sure Joker did that, and making it up on the spot is on-brand for him.

>>152362631
>worse than turning all of China, literally every single Chinese person into dim sum
You're probably right.

>>152362841
Yeah whatever. You can make anything "worse" by increasing the body count. What if joker humanely euthanized 100 million people in a voluntary clinic? Whoah wow that's the WORST!

>>152362753
I assume he did, used her as a human shield knowing Batman wouldn't attack a pregnant woman, and then aborted it as late as possible for laughs.

>>152362632
Have to agree, regardless of your opinion on Jason, his murder was fucking brutal.

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>>152362631
Damian is cuter

>>152362647
He could easily just be lying here

>>152366368
Not even the worst thing he did to Superman. InJustice was FUCKED.
>tricking Superman into thining Lois is his most powerful enemy
>this causes Superman to go absolute ham on a pregnant human woman
>kills not only his wife but also his unborn child
>the second her heart stops it detonates a nuclear bomb that destroys the entire city of Metropolis

Even as a kid reading that felt so fucking nasty. It doesn't even feel like a Joker plan. It feels more like Riddler or Toyman.

>>152362647
How do you not kill this guy after something like that?

Wasn't that the point? Joker had endangered far more people before, he'd been nonchalantly cruel on whim but this was a very targeted, active kind of cruelty. Malice overpowering Joker's intended persona. Taking things too far even for him. Which is why it lead to his death.

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>>152363978
one of the most visible casualties of the never ending story format capeshit is married too. They have to push the envelope but can never commit to any real change so you get empty throw away lines about how this time the Joker is just the most sick disgusting criminal and things will never be the same for real we promise. And any time they actually show him doing something horrible it can never stick or have lasting impact because we have to return to status quo or the next writer might just not care to follow it up. Every time something like this comes out of Jokers mouth it gets more and more absurd that Batman, the state, or any red blooded man with a gun hasnt put him down like a rabid dog for the good of the world, and it cheapens the entire story as a result. Stories must have consequences and an ending, or it just devolves into meaningless shock value.

>>152367543
See what gets me is that why everyone says it has to be Batman to do it. I get they're archenemies so there's that but they argue logically not thematically and logically as soon as Batman socks him one and foils the evil plan it's on the state to determine punishment. Or hell you'd think some other villain might do it. The Flash's Rogues are very strict about no killing woman and children and have FUCKED UP people who broke that rule.

>>152367606
seriously if I was Killer Croc I'd just bite the Joker's head off. what's Batman gonna do, beat me up again?

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I had a thought the other day. You know what would be the funniest gag The Joker could pull? If he just walked away. Just left Gotham. Forever. Leaving everyone just to stew and keep looking.

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>>152362631
Op, I...

>>152367806
At midnight she will turn... sexy

>>152367606
This is one thing that annoys me about capeshit, even the top-tier stuff like Timm's cartoons. Given their personalities and differing motivations, most villains should hate each other and, at best, work together temporarily before their differing motivations or clashing egos cause them to split up, and in many cases they should actively hate one another as much as (or perhaps even more than) they do the heroes, but this is rarely represented.

An example of this being done really well was the Ultra-humanite thing in Justice League, and how he just immediately switches sides when offered better pay, because he's in it for the money alone.

I feel like the "mastermind" type villains like Ra's would want be killing other villains (especially ones like the Joker) pretty frequently simply because they get in the way or can't be used or planned around.

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>Two villains
>One of them blows out a Hospital, even with babies inside
>The other is just a pickpocket that rapes a woman that is a villain too
>For the majority of people, the first one is a bad ass villain and the other is worst than hitler
WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY

>>152362631
Okay yeah but its really fucking hot.

>>152368121
seek help

>>152362647
>doesn't even tell a joke

>>152362632
Isn't this basically Jason Todd but if Joker didn't murder him?

I rewatched this for the first time as a kid and the part where he breaks down crying after the murder fucking got me.

>>152368813
For what it's worth, Arkham Knight's version of Jason Todd is basically that though without the nonverbal insanity.

Even considering it was a home video release it still amazes me that they got away with things like Joker shocking Tim onscreen. As a kid I had nightmares with that scene because I kept thinking that Tim was subjected to that for like a whole week. And judging from dialogue, Joker also injected him with drugs too.

This sort of stuff is mostly cartoonish/fantastical in other stories but here it was a kid who basically got his brain fried into mush in a much more mundane way.

>>152369114
It was the perfect blend of cartoony slapstick, set ups and payoffs of jokes (bat family parody, specific stuff Inforget but Joker was well making jokes about it the entire time.) And horror/thriller without going full edgy.

The weirdest part about this movie knowing Harley survived that fall and went on to actually have a real family of her own somehow. Karma must have recent when she fell or something.

>>152367727
Nice try, Bats.

>>152368813
I still would like to know what story Snyder was going to set up for him. Like... okay Harley Quinn helped him murder Jason Todd. But there is also a theory that the Joker we see in Suicide Squad IS Jason. I think there is some credence to that theory. Because how the fuck does The BvS Batman not absolutely demolish the Joker given how he acts in that movie. And how the fuck is he so important that he gets to stay with Batman in the post apocalyptic future? Fuck the Snyderverse but the least that asshole can do is commision a follow-up comic a-la Smallville season 11

>>152365873
I think the format and medium are a big part of it because they shape expectations, in BTAS case it’s exactly as you say. Also the type of shit >>152363746 that gets old in comics because you know there won’t be lasting consequences or there are no limits, but mainstream Joker became such an edgelord because it really worked when adapted to live action. The threat and emotion of the moment feel present and mass audiences who were not comic readers didn’t expect seriousness from him yet.

>>152369690
Harley having anything to do with Robin’s murder was added in by some executive, Ayer had nothing to do with it. I believe Snyder confirmed the Robin who died was actually Dick Grayson, and he gave Knightmare Joker GCPD equipment, when Dick has been a cop before. Also funny that the tranny joker movie included that theory as part of the plot

>>152368813
Basically. They didn't want to use Jason's name/weren't allowed to since Tim was the current Robin and they also felt the name would "doom" him, but then basically went and had him be a victim of the Joker in some other way.
His backstory of a dad being a Two-Face henchmen that dies was lifted from Post-Crisis Jason, and there were different homages with how certain scenes were directed.
You basically could see him as an amalgam the way DCAU Wally had Barry's backstory, and DCAU Kyle was a pilot and initially had Hal's design.

>>152367727
Oh that happened. People expected Joker to do one thing and instead they got a plate of shit. They called it "Joker 2: Folie a Duex"

This nigga has crimes ranging from Jaywalking to rape to genocide. Why not divide some of his crimes to other characters

>>152362631
No it's not. He's basically a horror movie serial killer from the New 52 onwards.

>>152367418
Blame the Comics Code Authority for tricking retards into thinking Superheroes don't kill. Then blame editorial.

>>152366368
Damn I forgot about this. I got used to the cartoon version of Emperor Joker.

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>>152362631
Say, what IS an ideal ending for a character like joker.
I mean, obviously he has to die, but what story can work best as his ending? Killing Joke but batman actually kills him would be poetic, but also feels wrong.
Joke's Return is also another good one i like.

>>152370277
"That's not funny" when facing his own death is the perfect line for it.

>>152362631
Should've made him take after Harley instead

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>>152370277
Telltale Batman's ending is Joker's good ending where he and Bruce are actual friends and Bruce goes to visit him at Arkham

For it's when he said his name was Amanda then he laughs maniacally.
Gives me nightmares.

>>152367852
At the very least, there is no villain that would ever tolerate teaming up with the Joker.

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>>152370277
>shitty digital version
LOOK HOW THEY MASSACRED MY BOY

>>152362631
>>152362632
He raped barbara left her paralized and sent the pics to his dad as he was raped by dwarves.

>>152362753
Never put your dick in crazy.

>>152362631
I still don't understand the thing about the little mole with a smiley face in the movie.
Was that thing supposed to implant the joker personality in old Tim? Why did it wait until he was old? Did he had that mole all that time in his neck? How did he never noticed?
It always made more sense to me that the second personality he develop while being tortured become stronger when he was old, if this is actually the case what was the point of that little mole thing?

>>152370846
>Was that thing supposed to implant the joker personality in old Tim?
Yes, his DNA and brainwaves.
>Why did it wait until he was old?
The Joker persona had to hide to avoid detection
>Did he had that mole all that time in his neck?
After he was kidnapped, yes
How did he never noticed?
Bad writing
It was a genetic microchip. It’s never explicitly stated for some reason, but it was probably from Cadmus, the same technology that created Terry. Joker also broke out Cadmus test subjects like Ace in that Justice League Episode. You are right though, Tim developing the personality through torture makes more sense.

>>152367727
Becomes a far. Makes himself a comfy pot of stew.

>>152362631
I’m more surprised they haven’t had Joker try doing it again in the comics.

>>152370766
You would think so, at least not for any extended period, and yet it happens all the time

>>152362631
no

>>152362631
worse than all the things he did diuring his seemingly never-ending edgelord phase? (2008-????)

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>>152370277
getting shot in the street by a random person

>>152362736
No he raped Gordon

>>152371187
JM DeMatteis tried to do some allusion to it with Robin Lives but it was lame

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>>152370783

>>152369114
don't forget, the original release trimmed a lot of that

>>152370942
I liked Tim coming back from that experience, fixing his life, making things better for himself and moving on. I know there was a bit of mystery in the movie until they figured it out, but it being a chip means Tim's effort wasn't a lost cause. And frying the Joker's chip/brainwaves with his own handbuzzer felt like a good way to wipe him out.

>>152370277
Getting raped to death in prison.

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>>152369264
Did they just steal the fucking baby armor thing.

>>152362632
I thought about it and I'm not sure, Jason got beat within an inch of his life, then blown up but DCAU Tim was tortured day in and out for however long and also given a neural implant that would go on to hijack his consciousness for most of his life.
And considering what Joker was willing to do to Tim for kicks there's no telling what sick shit Joker's programming got up to with his body.

>>152367418
I want to see the baby soup first

>>152370277
Batman catches the Joker, then:
1. Mob rule, where onlookers shout out Joker's crimes against them, then overwhelm Bats and rip Joker to shreds.
2. Average citizen whacks Bats on the head, then beats Joker to death on the streets.

>>152362647
That's just bad writing

>>152370277
Going sane and feeling every bit of pain he's inflicted. Not temporarily. Have it like Arkham City where he's mortally wounded of lethel poisoned by one of his own schemes and Spectre shows up to lead him through every horrible thing and before he's through Joker is begging him for punishment

But in reality its always gonna end up with Bruce and Joker killing each other and their kids (Batman's Son and Joker's daughter) either fucking or carrying on the cycle.

>>152373639
In Azzarello’s Joker he raped a guy’s wife in front of him

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>>152362631

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>>152362647
Hold on guys, let him cook.

>>152370277
>Bruce Wayne announces he's working on a chemical treatment that will cure the joker
>Joker takes notice, breaks in
>Finds a vial that's supposedly "Discarded", and was found to "Make the Joker Toxin's effects worse" in animal trials.
>Joker takes it, thinking it'd be funny to make himself even crazier.
>Suprise! It was a working cure disguised as a failure.
>Joker, taken aback by the shock of his mental state, goes comatose. He completely retreats into his mind.
>Batman isn't satisfied with this, he's never satisfied. He has a machine built to go into The Joker's mind.
>He goes inside. It's tormented by the memories of The Joker, and the man inside is completely broken and trapped in these memories, a mirror to Batman in a way.
>Batman goes through, fights various memories of the Joker and therapizes to the man trapped inside, telling him his past doesn't have to define him anymore, telling him he can always become a new person.
>Batman uses the power of imagination to give The Man a Batman helmet. They both travel through the mindscape and set things right.
>After leaving the mindscape, the man formerly known as Joker is free from his coma.
>Batman sets him up with some witness protection and a job in Metropolis.
>Batman goes into his own mind afterward. He meets his own memory of the joker. He stares it down, and it becomes the cured man. Batman's mind, once all fucked up and traumatized, clears for a moment. His suit melts away into his skin. The traumatic elements return, but he knows now they can be cleared away.
>Batman retires, passing on the role to someone else. He travels to tibet to become a monk.
Proving the joker wrong would be more satisfiying to me than killing him

>>152373873
This sounds horrible but not terrible.
I would like to take something away. The idea that inside Joker there is literally a good person. They should have it so the guy is split away from Joker and whatever evil made the Joker is bottled away while the person left behind dies with relief. Think of it like BOB from Twin Peaks. I think thats how it should "end".

>>152370277
>>152372261
Have Joker almost beat Batman. He's revealed to the world that Bruce is Batman and has hired other bad guys to overpower him. Every turn Joker has outsmarted Batman and thd Justice League and the Bat family. As a last ditch effort Batman chooses to sacrifice himself to Joker who starts beating him with a bat. Before he can deal the finishing blow Joker is shot from behind. Everyone turns and it's Joe. Fucking. Chill.

>>152373873
>tibet

the place with the pedophile slaver monks?