Again, IDW and DB Evolution are nothing alike.

>>152368491
You sure?

>>152368507
IDW is officially produced and Sega themselves work on it. Evolution was shit out by Fox in a hurry with no input from anyone in Japan.

>>152368491
>Let's take a character who is basically an unflappable demi god and make him cry about his feelings and want a girlfriend
same shit

>>152368535
Again, that was Archie. Not IDW.

>>152368527
I don't remmber Sonic in the games ever standing there trembling and scared trapped in his thoughts. Out of character just like Dragon Ball

>>152368555
Oh. I am sorry actually. OP image should swap those.

What's the Sonic Underground equivalent of Dragonball?

>>152368555
IDW and Archie mischaracterize Sonic in all the same ways except Archie takes it a step further with the romance garbage.

>>152368472
I recently found out Sonic's Japanese adventure era voice actor was the vA for the protagonist in Future Racing Cyber Formula GPX or whatever probably because FAST and I just think that's neat

>>152368587
I think we can all agree that Sonic Underground is perfectly in character and respects the original core concept of Sonic as envisioned by Junichi Masuda and Masashi Kishimoto

>>152368587
Dragon Ball Abridged

>>152368587
GT

I never understood the concept of a "JP Purist". Sonic is a japanese character. liberties taken on by Sonic's western counterpart that never appear in japan are out of character.

>>152368642

Boom para para, boom para para...

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>>152368472
IDW is owned by an israel supporter

let the franchise die unless it changes hands

Sonallyfags coping while being given every official statement across the decades that Sonic was never supposed to function in relationships like Sonally was the funniest thing about last thread. I hope Satamtards never die.

>>152368472
>People are out there defending Evolution.
What madness is this?

>wanting flawless protagonists who can do no wrong

Do you not understand what makes something boring?

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Seethe.

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>>152368888
There is a already a cocky and arrogant teenage boy Sonic character with a need for speed. His name is Jet the Hawk. When you turn Sonic into that you are now creating two characters in the same canon with these flaws.
There is already an awkward but well meaning brash hero hothead character. That is Silver. When you turn Sonic into that you are creating two characters with the same vices.

Sonic was never supposed to be a standard protagonist. He was always a "gary stu" This isn't something they came up with just to ruin some off-canon ship or promote his character. This is day one.
Sonic being a godlike wind spirit character with no lingering attachments has always ALWAYS been what they were going for.

>>152368888
Sonic and Goku make mistakes all the time they just aren't your fucking generic 90s teenager character that westerners love so much

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>>152368657
>Sonic is a japanese character.
..designed for a western audience and has always been infamously unsuccessful in his own country.

>>152368472
Bait thread; AoSTH Sonic is the best interp of Sonic, Kid GT Goku is the best Goku.
Bye.

>>152369014
>
That's a fine argument but it removes the context here. Western Sonic is not the same thing. Japanese Sonic WAS that Sonic designed for a western audience. When Yuji Naka saw the western version he was by his own words livid. He did eventually admit that the western changes may have saved the series in the end, but he spun back around to hating it once the adventure era rolled around. It might have been a blend but it was never a healthy one.

>>152368986
Jet and Silver were introduced 15 years into the franchise to sublimate those aspects of Sonic’s personality to Mickey Mouseify him and sell more collectibles just like every other post-2006 character, it has nothing to do with redundancy regarding the original intent.

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>>152369058
Sonic's characterization in the 1992 Shogakukan and Chuck Yeager stories is the exact same personality he has in the japanese version of Sonic Adventure. So while you could argue that from a western perspective, it was just not the case. Sonic is not an example of a character who's traits were sanded down to have broader appeal like micky mouse since the original version never had those traits to start with. It was always non canon american spinoffs adding those traits.

I'm not telling you you have to like it. I'm telling you that if you go only by what Sonic Team put out there isn't some "santiziation" of Sonic like with Micky Mouse. If anything the japanese version of Sonic became edgier over time from Sonic 1 to Frontiers. Starting out more Mickey Mouse like and gaining character flaws as a direct result of hiring western writers who grew up with the western material.

>>152369058
>sublimate those aspects of Sonic’s personality
unless you somehow thought archie was canon, sonic never had those traits either way

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>>152369159
I'm not really a purist so I'm not interested in defending the japanese version, just pointing out that it's been there forever. I think if SatAM and Archie didn't exist at all, western fans would have had a different interpretation of Sonic entirely. He isn't a cocky guy looking for a girlfriend. He's more like Goku but without the stupidity or obsession with fighting. That is Sonic's japanese characterization across the board. You will find it in Sonic 06, Sonic forces, Sonic X, any Sonic manga. The idea that Sonic is cocky, obnoxious, arrogant, or jealous is purely, purely western.

And yes while Madonna did exist, the intent was always for Sonic to be averse to romance in general. Meanwhile his Nicky persona (who was meant to contrast with Sonic) liked the idea of having a girlfriend.

The Shogakukan manga isn't canon, but the "Sonic" in that is 1:1 with the Japanese Sonic in the games. I have to clarify that for honesty's sake.

I think if you got rid of all the western additions to Sonic's character, he might be most people's lieast favorite Sonic character. Like Leonardo. He is the "Big Good" Sonic character. He is not the one who learns lessons.


That's why I called him a gary stu. This is usually an insult but Sonic has always fit that descripton. The latest Sonic manga in 2026 has Sonic casually beating up kaiju with an aloof grin.

>>152369159
Fun fact: The Japanese version of Sonic Boom removes every single moment Sonic acts cocky or arrogant due to that being inconsistent with his japanese characterization.

>>152369058
If anything Jet is meant to double down on an existing detail. Sonic was never cocky. Jet is what Sonic would be if he was.

>>152369211
The western version of Sonic is a hundred times more generic than the actual version

>>152369120
I’m not telling you you have to agree, either. I did not disagree with your perspective on Sonic’s personality, I criticized the evidence you chose as irrelevant to the argument you made. I do not personally consider Frontiers any darker or more mature than a Disney movie, but I can understand your perspective. I’m focused on the execution from the perspective of general audiences. When the Adventure characters became Sonic’s meal ticket, Jet and Silver were created to attract those audiences rather than giving Sonic the personality profiles, but Sonic had already had scenes displaying motivations and emotions that appeal in the same way.
>There is already a ____ When you turn Sonic into that you are creating two characters with ____
TL;DR I’m saying it’s the other way around from how you said it, considering he existed 15 years earlier and they were created to fill the gaps.
>>152369145
It’s a character handled by dozens of people in a complicated product. I don’t see the point in pretending everyone is or has ever been perfectly on the same page, with Sonic of all things. Again, I only disagreed with using Jet and Silver as evidence.

>>152369500
By edgier I mean game Sonic became more likely to make sarcastic jokes or insult other characters in frontiers whole he never says anything sarcastic in the older Japanese titles. Not even in sa2.

>>152368561
Not that anon, but you are deliberately omitting the fact that Sonic:
1. Is in a literal zombie apocalypse because of Robotnik's/Eggman's metal virus turning everyone and everything into techno-organic metallic zombies called zombots.
2. He himself got infected with said virus (not to mention he cannot rest properly because him running at full speed is the only thing that keeps the virus from completely overwhelming him).
3. Said virus is also going to have horrid repercussions if not cured as seen in Silver's future.

No dude. Sonic is not out of character. He's literally put in a situation where he's hard under pressure during the whole Metal Virus arc until the very end of it.
And putting IDW Sonic on the same level as Evolution Goku is fucking baiting it because that movie sucked ass (being made without any imput from TOEI and/or Toriyama) while IDW Sonic is actually passable.

>>152369597
Never seen game Sonic be a little bitch sorry

>>152369555
Gotcha

>>152369611
Because he never had in the games something this insanely serious.

>>152369500
>complicated product. I don’t see the point in pretending everyone is or has ever been perfectly on the same page, w
Because he is consistent in Japan and inconsistent in America

>>152368472
But the original isn't actually charismatic or all that notable? There's a reason the Japanese treat the guy like a kid's mascot and don't buy his games.

Any Sonic discussion is just filled with too much autism, even for me

>>152369619
This is the most sane Sonic charactersization I discussion I've ever had. I hope you have a good day. Bye.

>>152369641
It wasn't like this decade ago, I swear. /co/ was one of the only places where you could talk about the Archie comics with normal people.

>>152369627
Right and this being a thread about the western version of Sonic, it would appear the role America played in Sonic’s commercialization during the time those characters were introduced is not completely irrelevant to their design or what it might say about where they felt the need to clarify Sonic based on the response of the global audience.
>>152369642
You too!

>>152369666
Archie angers game purists more than love action fairly odd parents does fop fans

>>152369682
I was a game purist. Until I read Archie. But I don't go around boom threads or reply to underground posts and shit up discussion.

>>152369014
>and has always been infamously unsuccessful in his own country
you try and have a character succeed when tied to the worst performing platform of its generation

>>152369666
/v/ ruined it kind of indirectly. Doing the marathon of Sonic comics there led to the creation of the general in /vg/, and every schizo since has been tied to it directly. And even in the cases that don't tie directly to /sthg/, the sheer expectation of "oh but we get to do the cool epic storytime of all comics and have a big ride that never ends the ride never ends the ride never ends" just attracts autism too powerful- just look at a few years ago when someone did another complete storytime on /co/ and it led to people looking for random fancomics to keep storytiming after the actual official comics got storytimed just to have an excuse to keep having in effect a new sonic general going endlessly

IDW issue 50 is when it started. Before that issue game purists didn't have strong opinions about the comics beyond them being some weird side canon. IDW issue 50 had Ian carry over a character trait that wasn't in the games, Sonic having a no kill rule, and canonizing it. Sonic attempted to kill king Arthur and Erazor Djinn in the games, though Arthur wasn't a real person. There is no given reason why he doesn't kill Eggman, if he did do that it would ruin the games series so he doesn't. It's a meta inconsistency and addressing it is like addressing why Jessie and James aren't in jail yet. This set off a tidal wave. Now JP purist Sonic fans feel that Archie and the other comics are encroaching on their preferred Sonic, invading it. They feel the need to tear it apart and point it out every time.

I'm sure even the staunchest SatAM fan already knows that the Sonic from the games doesn't care about being tied down by romance or anything like that. They are Satam fans. But JP purists see a Satam fan as an ignorant idiot who needs to be cleansed. They make the Dragon Ball Evo comparison because that is how they see it. They think of you like someone who thinks DBE Goku is an accurate representation.

>>152369666
>>152369746
Here's a crazy idea... Archie was dead for ten years now and Sega put hard limiters on western content taking liberties so there is a generation of fans who grew up with the shonen game Sonic and not the romance drama comic?

>>152369782
That doesn't explain the sheer actual quality of the posts and discussion going down. I'm not talking about disagreement, I'm talking about easy bait and shitposting and derails. That's what I'm saying was caused by the marathon storytimes and generals.

>>152368472
>entirely out of character
No matter how many times you repeat it, it will never be true.

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>>152369666
>a decade ago it was not this bad
As autistic as it could be still, I 100% agree it's gotten way worse since then. I think as terminally online zoomers have grown up it's thrown immense amounts of gasoline onto the fire as that subculture has shown itself to be immensely vitriolic and petty.
Sega displaying favoritism for IDW doesn't particularly help either as it gives every single party involved ammo, whether they feel affirmed or jilted by its "canonization". It's a fucking mess

>>152369831
This. DUBku did nothing wrong

>>152369831
>comic so OOC that as soon as anyone who actually worked on the games was asigned to oversee it they banned half of the character traits before the reboot was even a twinkle in Kenny P's eye

>>152369844
Sega plays favorite with IDW because IDW Sonic actually acts like the character and Archie Sonic is a harem lite novel self insert

>>152369716
>worst performing platform of its generation
I didn't know Sonic 1 released on the PC Engine.

>>152368491
But why though?

>>152370165
Anon, the PC Engine outperformed the Megadrive in Japan.

People always ask "Is this canon" when they should be asking "is this entertaining".
IDW Sonic isn't entertaining.

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>>152368561
>I don't remmber Sonic in the games ever standing there trembling and scared trapped in his thoughts
Wanna see a magic trick? Watch anon move the goal post for his reply

>>152371437
Sonic was a cool badass when this happened and not a crying scared bitch

>>152369014
>bayformers is super popular in China but in America critics hated them
>therefore Transformers is a Chinese series

>>152371283
I was referring to the Turbografx in the US and didn't think the distinction mattered.

if a character contradicts the games then it is ooc. so archie and satam are worse than shit.

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>>152368472
>Not inteded to have major developments
>Fucking Classic Sonic INTO Modern Sonic, Kid Goku INTO Goku
>"relatable" version
>live action Goku
>Entirely out of character
>Dub Goku
>Gets major things wrong
>Satam Sonic
You dropped out of elementary school and are proud of it.

>>152372229
>he thinks satam sonic isn't wrong
lmao

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>>152372288
>wrong based on material that didn't exist
Bro I can't believe cavemen didn't know the Earth was round. Are they stupid?

>>152372347
The original Sonic manga is not only older than satam but the only reason DiC didn't have Sonic's japanese character profile is because of SOA literally changing it to cocky skaterboy. No wonder Satam fans were blindsided by Sonic Adventure.

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>>152372347
So they're still wrong then. They could have literally just sent an email.

If we were talking about Archie you would be right since Sega straight up sent outdated information to Archie when asked and refused to elaborate further which is why Amy has her japanese Sonic CD age in Archie. SatAM didn't even bother.

>>152372347
How are there this many satamfags who think Sonic's personality just spawned out of nowhere in 1998 when it is unironically page 1 draft 1 chapter 1 "Sonic doesn't like the girly affection shit"

>>152372431
Satam fans don't play or like Sonic games

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>>152372381
>The Manga
>>152372415
>An Email in 1993
Holy shit you should star in a standup.
>>152372431
>spawned out of nowhere in 1998
Bro living on alternate Earth where common character tropes also don't exist.

I'm surprised that "Sonic's personality in SatAM is not consistent with the videogames" is a controversial statement in an era when we know Sonic's creator was going to roll heads over Sonic's characterization.

>>152372462
>Email in 1993
Yes? That is how they got the profiles in the first place?

>>152372462
>Manga Sonic acts like 2000s game Sonic
>both are overseen by the same people
>satam overseen by literally nobody who worked on the games
>Sonic doesn't act like that in any media aside from Archie, which is based on satam
it is that simple. Satam is out of character.

>>152372466
Naka not only hated SatAM but also shut down any attempt to apply its content to the games starting with Sonic 16. It should be common knowledge at this point that he saw it as a rape of Sonic's character.
That said, let's not pretend he was the only voice. Sonic was NEVER meant to be affectionate but the OTHER person behind Sonic actually enjoyed Satam for its differences, Naoto Oshima still has a poster of the series in his room to this day.

You can point out that something is out of character without shitting on it.

don't even be nice to satamfags, sonic's literal first character trait is that he doesn't like kisses.

>>152372486
>bro has never heard of fax nor mail
Brother, you should finish school. You are embarrassing yourself with how little you know.
>>152372495
>No Nicky nor Little John present in anything after nor before
Oh yes. Very accurate to the source material. Very faithful to something that needs to be referenced. Keep huffing the paint.

>>152372540
Yes, Sonic's characterization of being free like the wind and untethered by anything started in the manga. What is your point? Nicky is Sonic's past childhood self, inherently out of character as well but the teenage Sonic in that manga is identical to all of his japanese speaking appearances that follow. Why would you even pretend this is about anything other than character writing?

>>152372540
Like I said. Satam fans hate Sonic and refuse to accept that their spinoff cartoon was made with no oversight or respect to Sonic's creative staff. Literally the Netflix Death Note of Sonic. Actually no, since that at least tried to copy some of the core character traits from the source material.

>>152372431
Sonic fandom is the way it is because people get into their favorite franchise installment(s) and dgaf about knowing the rest

Anyone who thinks Satam was in character is either low iq or severely misinformed. First thing Naka did when Sonic X came out was scoff at Underground and Satam for getting so many details wrong.

>>152372540
>>152372462
>>152372347
They're correct lmao. Sonic's "game" characterization predates Satam by two years. No one at DiC had access to it and they were given Sonic's american character profile instead. So technically speaking it is out of character for the standards at the time, but they had no opportunity to be in-character.

>>152372592
Satam fags will argue with you over shit that was settled a decade ago. Had to be told directly to their faces this isn't how Sonic acts in anything overseen by Sonic Team.

>>152372462
>>152372610
Both incorrect. SatAM actually did have the japanese profile. You can see it in effect for the pilot episode "Heads or Tails". They simply chose not to use it and made their own character bible. AOSTH also follows it to the letter. Which is why between AOSTH, Heads or Tails, and the games there is very little deviation aside from Sonic's quippiness.

>>152372650 (Me) before anyone tries to argue, Ben Hurst openly admitted to not following the game canon at all. You can like SatAM if you want but it was absolutely not trying to be "faithful" in any regard nor was it made with the blessing by any creative team at Sega.

Sonic doesn't talk like a generic 90s kid
Sonic doesn't want a girlfriend and never will
Sonic doesn't like romance
Sonic doesn't try to be a hero, he saves the day because it's fine
Sonic doesn't see Eggman as some hitler being
Sonic hates the idea of marriage

>but thats from the later games
its from 1990 bitch

>>152368472
>Dub Goku having a cult following
Do Americans really?

>>152372776
Yes unironically a lot of people defend the old z dub

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>>152372776
The whole planet is a Goku cult following, Americans just happened to grow up on the dub

>>152372741
>Sonic doesn't see Eggman as some hitler being
If anything, I'll argue that DiC's Americanization ruined Eggman even worse than it did Sonic. Because of SatAM, everybody thinks "Robotnik" is a pollution-spewing blob of lard who wants to eradicate all organic life.

>>152372859
What do you make of AoSTH Eggman?

>>152372933
Mostly just a blob of lard.

>>152372859
I made that post out of frustration but yeah. Satam's remaining legacy didn't actually change much. Most of the things off about it are easy to point out. Eggman/Robotnik is an issue though. The average Gen X struggles to separate SatAM robotnik from the actual character in the games.

>>152372126
The distinction mattered because that's the whole point I was making. You're not going to make Sonic popular in Japan if no one bought the console his most important games are in. Means no one had the console to play them back then, and no one has the nostalgia to play their ports now.

i have no leg in this race because i'm a zoomer but i always found satam's sonic personality really annoying. Meanwhile i liked his character in the games for the same reasons i like goku. i don't care about him getting a girlfriend or having relationship troubles, i just liked seeing him transform and say cool lines.
I don't really see how the western addition of sonic saying a bunch of 90s catchphrases and making out with hot bitches helps that. hell the only sonic game to try romance at all crashed and burned.

>>152373110
Probably it's because sonic was before your time.

>>152372517
>You can point out that something is out of character without shitting on it.
You're arguing with literal retarded spergs here, they don't know the meaning of "being okay with something they don't care for"

>>152372776
As an American, yes. but I will point out that Latin America's have their Goku and they will sperg over their version.

Now let me tell you anons, I grew up on dub Goku but I had more than 1 dubbed Goku and so I go back to the original. Funimation made a whole new generation of retards who can't handle that Goku isn't Superman and Sean Schimmal makes it worse.

>>152368472
Are we Americans now?

>>152374572
Seems so

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>>152368472

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>>152368472
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS2qmXZWQEQ

>>152368472
You forgot Movienic.

>>152369623
>Perfect Chaos
>The Black Arms
>Iblis, especially in the future timeline
All of these were apocalypse-level events that at best ended with an entire city getting wiped out. He barely flinched at every single one.

>>152374572
Always were

>>152368527
>IDW is officially produced and Sega themselves work on it
No, it's a licensed comic they oversee so it doesn't do anything too off-brand. Except they were more lax on it until recently.

>>152368888
Sonic is Kakashi
https://youtu.be/1_ujis15M9I?si=inv7uOwPemdiJu37
He's a mentor figure for whoever's the actual protag in the story. Whether that be Tails, Amy, Chip or Chris.

>>152377433
he is a frequent schizo on the sonic thread and he always forgets about movienic.

>>152378604
eh more like Kamina without the eccentricity

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>>152368472
>again that Evolution bullshit

Best Sonic: All the versions that existed before 1998.
Worst Sonic:The ones that existed after 1997.

My childhood > yours, objectively.

>>152380062
Hell yea. Western Sonic is cool.