>>108045989
>spacebar is still long as fuck because... reasons

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>>108045998
not on my keyboard

>>108045989
Top but with a numpad

>>108045989
104 key or bust

Second but split into two, obviously.

>>108046081
needs arrow keys

>>108046125
okay unc

>>108046081
What is the ... key?

>>108046125
Use hjkl.

>>108045989
ortholinear non-split is fucking cancer. you must have t-rex arms to comfortably use that shit

>>108045989
That LShift hurts to look at.
Either way I need the rest of the keyboard and macro keys.

>>108045989
https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/NEW_M

>>108046152
whatever you want it to be, i use it as fn
>>108046125
it doesn't

>>108045989
75%... next

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>>108045989

>>108046276
Where's the left key?

>>108046265
>i use it as fn
What do you use the Fn key in the bottom right corner for?

>>108046296
print screen

>>108046284
Left is triggering so it's diamond + yellow + right

>>108045989
ortholinear is a meme

>>108045989
Slanted of course

I'm still baffled that keyboards haven't seen any non-meme non-aesthetic non-trimming redesigns. We really ought to reconsider what a keyboard should actually have for buttons instead of simply asking if we should jostle them around a bit.
Same with DE design. It's been in an awful rut since the 90's. The 90's! Even slightly out there DE designs like Haiku or the like are barely any different apart from things being in one corner or on the bottom or top or if you can stack windows or roll them up or snap them to areas on screen. It's so silly.

for me its the glove80

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>>108046451
there have been many (e.g. picrel) but they have been very slow to catch on and are pretty niche.
>>108046531
picrel

>>108046541
What happens if I need to type something using only my left hand?

>>108046541
that is literally just a normal keyboard that's been jiggled a bit, like I said. All the keys are the same, bar a handful of removed ones. I mean, unless it has some chording or something somewhere in there, I guess? But chording is dumb anyway so whatever.
>>108046451
>what a keyboard should actually have for buttons instead of simply asking if we should jostle them around a bit.

>>108046541
that's topologically just a regular keyboard dude

>>108046620
>topologically
and it's topologically a mug too so fucking what

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>>108045989
>>108045998
Neither
>picrel,TKL won

>>108047298
Your numpad?

>>108047312
Usecase?

>>108047313
Data entry and intuitive production software shortcuts
You do 3d model and wrangle spreadsheets at the bare minimum, right?

>>108047298
Has that been ``Bedazzled''?

>>108046561
I have an Ergodox EZ and it’s a pain in the ass
Even more so because I use blank keycaps and can’t rely on muscle memory for the wrong hand

A programmable 60% lets you reach every key that you would have to raise your hand for on a full size from the alphanumerics by holding a modifier down (like caps). You can program a numpad and navigation keys into your alphanumerics so you never need to raise, find, push, and reseat your hand.
>but modifiers are hard
Its no different to pushing Ctrl+C, you don't nedd a dedicated copy key do you.
>why stop at 60% why not go smaller
Because 60% has the standard layout for alphanumerics and the goal isn't to go a small as possible, it's to minimise the need to raise your hand / leave the alphanumerics.

The only keyboard sizes I have respect for are full-sized 104/105 users and programmable 60%s. Anything else is retarded.

>>108047298
A standard TKL is a totally brain damaged layout that only giga retards use.
The numpad contains both navigation keys and numpad functionality, why remove it but retain the navigation keys?

>>108047956
Because you want the navigation keys but don't need numpad functionality.

>>108045989
ANSI enter is complete retardation, ISO enter all the time

>>108048233
>i'm too retarded to hit enter with my pinky

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>>108047956
>>108048225
>>108047298
Cooler Master solved the TKL problem by going back to the original 1980s specification; the numpad came first before the navcluster and you'd simply use the numlock key to toggle between navcluster and numpad mode.

The common TKL layout is brain damaged compared to this.

>>108048225
Numpads have navigation you RETARD. What do you think numlock is for?
>>108048370
Yeah that layout makes sense. Standard TKL and anyone who owns one is retarded.

>>108048233
ISO is objectively better for gaming.

Is that AI resolution or can't you find a better picture

>>108047207
no it isn't wtf lmao

>>108045989
second one is fucking disgusting. tiny left shift. tiny caplock. tiny tab. tiny delete. that bullshit should be illegal. eupeans have truly awful taste.

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simple as

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>>108045989
top is better for shooters

the middle finger can reach Z easier for doing certain things :33333333333333

tranny thread

>>108045989
None.
Who in their right mind still uses keyboards made for 5ft midgets. Split keyboards have been a thing for a while now, anon.

>>108046451
smartphone interfaces are probably the most compelling argument for changing how we interact with computers right now, not because they're better, but because they show how readily we can find something intuitive. Almost all apps act like different desktops, with home button and the home menu more or less being equivalent to the taskbar in windows instead of a standard background. Universal back button is absolutely huge. Older systems has escape act like that sometimes but since it was only enforced through convention and not the OS it naturally fell away, but it's truly ideal. It really doesn't make sense that even foss community-made systems don't experiment with it pretty much at all.

>>108045989
Not touching anything with a horizontal reurn key.

>>108047956
usecase for having a block of keys that does numbers (already have keys) and navigation (already have keys)?
104 is literally just TKL with a block of redundant keys.

>>108051621
their orientation and organization is ideal instead of awkward, that's the usecase.

>>108045989
There's nothing more autistic and useless than a keyboard without an arrow keys. You soicucks would buy a car without a steering wheel because muh minimalism!!!!!

>>108052073
cli-operated cars are faster and more convenient anyway.

I sneed a number pad and I won't use any keyboard that doesn't have one.

>>108046081
>no arrows
>no function keys
gross

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>>108052211
>cli-operated cars are faster and more convenient anyway.

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>>108045989
I use picrel.

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>>108052406
Ikea...

not a tranny so top

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pic related is how you know you're a healthy heterosexual biological male

>>108052406
i wonder if we're eventually going to get to the point where every button on a keyboard is one of those fuckin stream deck buttons

>>108052764
Are you asking if text input will genuinely go away or are you talking about the image being programmable? There are some keyboards (whether full production or just prototypes) that are effectively just screens already if the latter. If the former, no you fag, that's retarded.

>>108052792
the image being programmable, like every key on the keyboard is a customizable little screen where you change the function to be whatever

>>108052999
Here's one hobbyist one
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hqKPu2BEkI0
here's one that uses a standard screen something something
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1eWfLhkJHw
There was another one I saw honestly probably a decade ago now that I can't find that is more what you're talking about but, uh, well here are some I found I guess. Hope it satisfies your interest regardless.

>>108048370
I had one of these for years but having to toggle numlock got a bit annoying sometimes
Then I found the leopold 980M which I think is the perfect iteration on this design
I have one at work and wanted to buy another one for home but I haven't been able to find anyone selling a UK ISO version anymore for years now, which sucks

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>>108048370
>>108053542
Forgot pic

>>108046081
>>108046276
>>108049577
What is the point of this? To save 4 inches?
>>108052406
What is the usecase for replacing the last 1/5 of the keyboard with a fucking screen?

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whatever this is. it's perfect.

i'll do the one that my hands are used to from decades of using a keyboard which is also the one that is not a meme

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>be me
>have wacky idea about laying down being the superior ergonomic desk
>realize I need a split keyboard
>fall down the rabbit hole
>spend 2 years slowly designing the perfect board and layout
>buy all the parts
>finally order the pcbs
>solder it together
>Its Glorious
>design custom key layout
>kinda get annoyed by the wires
>takes a while to learn a keyboard layout, who knew
>get distracted by other things in life
>LLM's now write all my code...
>never use it

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>>108045989
Why do people still pretend that layers are a satisfactory alternative to having a real keyboard?

>>108046612
>All the keys are the same
Keyboard keys are defined at kernel level (at least in linux), you cant just invent new keys, try playing around with something like kmonad or QMK, you can combine keys, execute scripts after specific key combinations, use weird or forgotten keys you may not even know that existed, but your options are still limited. In any case it's one of those designs that just werks: letters, symbols and a few function keys. I'm not sure what else you could add other than pedals like some emacs oldfags use.
If you actually want to try something really different take a look at steno machines (traditional, widely used) or something called "charachorder".
split ergo keyboards are extremely comfy imho, and just 36 or even 34 keys are perfectly usable and quite common

>>108046085
this anon gets it

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>>108045989
Why not both?

i cant find a single decent wireless touchpad keyboard. got sick of the logitech one because of no caps lock light. im stuck with the CZUR one right now and it sucks. buttons are in the wrong place and i keep hitting unwanted hotkeys. i cant use a mouse because of carpal tunnel but all these keyboards are built for normies using their smart TVs. what do

>>108054808
>but your options are still limited.
not if you change what the kernel allows/make a new kernel. Same with the complaints about the desktop. Our current situation is silly. Being grandfathered in is one thing, but refusing to innovate because you can't think of other options is dumb. (the general you, not the specific you)
>In any case it's one of those designs that just werks: letters, symbols and a few function keys.
even though we keep changing what keys are on our keyboards or desire more input options, like having extra mouse buttons by default when no programs support it, or people being fine with using a phone even though that's significantly different, etc.
>If you actually want to try something really different take a look at steno machines (traditional, widely used) or something called "charachorder".
idk man the letters being arranged in the qwerty position isn't an issue to me, the conventions and actions that a keyboard is used for otherwise, like our current situation relying on tab/alt/shift/f1-12, and a variety of other buttons that are situational or silly really seems like the bigger issue
also to be clear I appreciate your reply I'm not trying to come off as combative

>>108054855
sadly DIY is the only viable option, and will be even more in the future. learn 2 solder and pray for garage lithography machines in our lifetime

>>108054896
>not trying to come off as combative
don't worry, you don't
What kind of stuff or functions would you like to have on a keyboard? Or would you ditch the keyboard entirely? I wonder if it would be possible to use exclusively something like a drawing tablet with gestures and handwriting recognition.
And I suspect that in the future we'll interact with computers exclusively through microphone and LLMs, maybe some eye tracking system instead of a mouse.
btw steno machines aren't just a different layout, they used something called chording (pressing several keys at the same time to compose entire syllables.)

>>108054971
I think one thing people really should have been doing for a long time now is having most taskbar-type interactions be based on the keyboard, kind of like how multimedia functions were slowly being added to keyboards years ago but are now mostly extinct. But instead of purely that I think truly basal functions should be there. Instead of a taskbar on the bottom like on windows, using the windows key just as a bonus option, it would be a way to simply start any real operation and the taskbar being completely absent unless you press it. This way everything can be in the center too, OR based on where your cursor is currently at, depending, which would likely be customized. I also think certain things that people most often do on computers - copying, pasting, deleting, making a new file, going back, going forward, opening settings, whatever examples you like - should have dedicated buttons on the keyboard as well. I mean we still have the "Insert" and "Delete" key, but whatever, you know. We have a Menu key but nobody uses it. Throw in some other things that should be hardwired in like system specs/temps/status or a "panic" button. A lot of this would be required to work in-tandem with the OS at the default level of course. I also think things like a right-click menu being a terminal and context search, just a little text line you can type in either commands or simply search for possible contextual actions by default would be ideal, and that really seems like the most obvious thing in the world to me. Idk. Oh also by default having a bios entry button instead of every different system having a silly little ritual where you either just know or have to guess how to get into bios. That would be handy.
>steno
yeah I mentioned chording in my earlier reply, I think it's a dumb option. A solution in search of a problem imo, modern keyboard layouts provide ample wpm.

>>108047956
>>108048370
>>108049217
Standard TKL is the only one that makes sense. Only absolute retarded mouthbreather baby ducks need a second set of numbers to be able to type numbers. The navigation keys are a billion times more essential.
>but you could use the numpad for navigation keys
And lose the navigation keys while doing it which, as mentioned, are a billion times more essential than the baby duck keys. Which means they would be on by default and you have to switch to the numpad mode every time you want to type numbers. By the time you manage to switch them I've already typed all the numbers I was planning to type with the top row.

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ortholinear aplit dactyl manuform is the one and only true way

>>108055103
>truly basal functions should be there
Indeed. People try to emulate that with tiling window managers (taskbar-type interactions), having "vim keys" in other programs (ranger, vimium etc.) or using emacs for everything, but it's not something unified at all, and only works on your machine. It does work, though.
>certain things that people most often do on computers - copying, pasting, deleting, making a new file, going back, going forward, opening settings
A lot of those keys are already there
>https://docs.qmk.fm/keycodes_basic#commands
but no common keyboard includes them.
And yes I also think that entering the bios feels like using a slot machine, in fact I always use the grub menu instead if possible.
I don't know about the other keys but some of them may already exist or could be configured in a DIY keyboard to function that way, at least on Linux (again, system dependent.)
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v6.19-rc8/admin-guide/sysrq.html
>right-click menu being a terminal and context search, just a little text line you can type in either commands or simply search for possible contextual actions by default would be ideal, and that really seems like the most obvious thing in the world to me
That would be indeed quite handy, I really dislike clicking through the menu laberinths of some GUI applications.

>steno
>A solution in search of a problem imo
A solution for a different problem imo but I agree, probably not very useful outside its intended purpose.

You should probably look into making your own keyboard, I believe you could implement a lot of those ideas.

>>108055227
>not having a numpad layer

>>108055353
hot

If you pick top keyboard, you're a communist.

>>108053603
>What is the usecase for replacing the last 1/5 of the keyboard with a fucking screen?
Having a naked 2D woman dancing there of course.

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>>108055353
nice keycaps

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>>108055404
To be honest I'm just a schizo who's been (slowly) trying to jot down ways to make an entire new computer system, as in hardware, like connection points, whether that's something like replacing the i/o slots with a different, new standard, or expansion slots with a different standard, or architecture like using RISC-V, also including the "expected" standards so things like the keyboard being completely redesigned from the ground up, AND also either designing or co-opting a non-Linux FOSS os that's fairly light with very limited expected variation to the OS and DE (kind of like how Haiku handles it, in a way) so that this hypothetical system would be, as designed by me from the ground-up, able to be produced using relatively cheap home-grown solutions for chips and other hardware, use a different form factor (like picrel) than most modern computers and be standardized to it (partly to make development of the OS easier, letting users handle porting it to any other hardware really), and be extremely inexpensive with the goal of primarily selling it to hobbyists and schools so that I could create a novel userbase that would allow me to ensure the OS would receive continual support. like I said I'm just being a schizo about it but I really think something like what I would want to make would be received well.

>>108055955
to add, I'm imagining something like:
>new default mobo shape that includes latches almost like you get for a ram stick right now that attaches to the inside of the case for easy removal
>psu that's attached using a locking clamp
>standardized "component slots" that are all the same shape but you plug in the components into either keyed designated ones easily labeled OR is automatically recognized so that you could double-up on any component and swap them readily, perhaps on the fly
>components being primarily in these component slots instead of incorporated on the mobo, so even stuff like soundcards, bios chips, and i/o port connections are all handled in the same manner as, in this extended system, ram, gpu, cpu, and drive. Yes, all same "type" of slot.
>and beyond that there's extra things like dedicated grips and grooves etc for all these components because having to be careful and line stuff up is dumb from both a manufacturing and consumer perspective.
and it would be pretty much flat and fit into that standard case with a monitor plugged in via an integrated case connection (that, indeed, plugs in via the same component slot) (though you could swap the monitor readily all the same) etc etc
I know I'm being a schizo thinking this would ever come to fruition but it just makes sense to me man

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>>108054650
>having a real keyboard?
>proceeds to post tranny unicomp

Pic related is a real keyboard.

>>108046561
good point. however, I have a separate laptop for gooning, so I don't care.

>>108055227
NUM LOCK KEY
NUM
LOCK
KEY

YOU
FUCKING
FOOL

>>108057517
>acting like you revealed some big fucking secret that nobody knew
I know what I said and that changes nothing.

>>108046125
let me guess you also use vscode?

>>108055353
>>108055714
> keyboard balls
I've always felt trackballs would be awkward and imprecise to use. I think I must have tried one as a kid and it was awkward or something

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>has arrow keys
>has Fn keys
>qwerty layout that isn't offset by meme bezels or redundant numpad
Everything you need and nothing more

>>108058204
>bkspc, enter, shift not on the edge
trash

>>108058449
>he needs to finger trace the edge to find enter
ngmi

>>108045989
>not TKL
both belong into the bin
>>108047329
>t. never did any sort of desk work in his life
>thinks all office wagies do is put in [0-9.\-+/\*] in their day to day
ngmi

>>108058605
>he thinks you don't have to type numbers in ever at a desk job
lol

>>108059399
>He's never written any code
lol

>>108059830
>disregarding the point on purpose
lol

>>108059984
>replying to his post
lol

>>108060172
>implying I care it was bait
lol

>>108045989
Just a regular TKL with literally all the other keys present and in their standard positions as well as sizes.

>>108060207
>implying im implying
lol

>>108060210
lol

>>108059984
he's right tho. the better "desk jobs" don't require constant manual input of numbers

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>>108045989
won't the typebars get jammed on the bottom one?

>>108062254
owning a business is a worse desk job than whatever you're thinking of?

>>108062275
it's ai-generated, doesn't matter if it makes sense or not

>>108055990
what do you think of plan 9?

question for 60% anons:

how do you go to the beginning or end of a line without home/end keys?

this function is too convenient for me. how do you go without these keys?

>>108062903
ive only ever needed this in a text editor in which case i can do gh and gl
of course i could always bind home and end in another layer

>>108062657
owning a business isn't a "job", whatever you do to make that business work is the job
but no, it's not better because I do own it and I'm not constantly manually entering numbers. I program.

>>108062903
>how do you go to the beginning or end of a line without home/end keys?
I use a full-size kb but I never knew what those were for, I always used up and down arrow keys. I'm rarted

>>108062903
I find opt+arrow or cmd+arrow more convenient than home/end whether full kb or not. Don't need to move my hands and opt+arrow is useful much more often

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>>108045989
I only use full size

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Everything ITT is hopelessly bloated. 21% is the way.

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>>108064185
>Shift
>Shift Shift

>>108062903
On linux you can use ctrl+a/e in gtk fields.

one of those peanut butter-proof kids' keyboards