>>18324340
>100 year long special military operation to liberate Ulster Loyalmen from the Nazi government of Ireland
What?

>>18324504
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_military_operation

>>18324510
Okay but what does that have to do with Northern Ireland?

>>18324340
Didn't Britain win?

>>18324580
Loyalists in Ireland are the Donbas separatists of Great Britain except they weren't funded by the entire world. Think about it

>>18324597
>Loyalists in Ireland
>Great Britain
You don't really know what you're talking about, do you?

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>>18324585
Not really. End result of the Troubles was
>Status Quo remains
>Extremely heavy concessions to Nationalists
>IRA out of prison, in Government
>Forced cooperation with the Republic of Ireland
>1,049 British Security Forces Dead (705 being British Army)

It'd be a case of Britain "winning" if the conflict was started by the IRA in a situation where Northern Ireland's constitutional future was up for debate, but that wasn't the case. The ROI in the 1960s didn't give a fuck about unification and since 18th Dáil were mostly focused on stronger business+industry ties between north and south.

The IRA was scattered and debating whether Marxism was cool or not, and O'Neill Ministry in Northern Ireland was open to moderate reforms in light of the growing civil rights movement across NI. There was categorically no question of NI leaving the UK. The actions by Ulster Loyalists (and the RUC) between 1966 and 1969 (during which time the IRA was not active) aimed to bring down O'Neill's government and harden politics against reform. It didn't work; endless Loyalist attacks on Civil Rights marches lead to protests and riots which escalated to such a degree that in August 1969 the British Army was called in.

It wasn't until December 1969 that the IRA split into the Provisional IRA and Official IRA, starting their own campaigns. So the Troubles was essentially
>Unionism is completely dominant, Nationalists have zero political clout whatsoever
>Loyalists try to kill the civil rights movement off, they fail
>Troubles
>NI's parliament replaced with mandatory coalition shared governance, NI literally cannot function without the participation of Nationalists in its government

Ironically, Unionists have brought down the NI Assembly far more commonly than Nationalists.

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>>18324340
You are critically misunderstanding the relationship between Britain, Ireland, and Northern Ireland.

Uniroinically if Britain had taken a harsh approach to Unionist threats of rebellion as they did with Nationalist ones, there's a strong argument to suggest that all of Ireland would to this day be in the Commonwealth. Fanciful sorts claim it'd still be in the Union, but that's very retarded. But the only real reason Irish Nationalism turned into separatism in the 1910s was a series of incredible political blunders by Britain which could have all been avoided if they didn't have to babysit the retarded mutant they created in Ulster.

Remember; in the 1800s Orangeism and Conservativism was the ideology of the elites. The Orange Order was deployed to break up meetings of land reformers or tenants rights groups, and while many Protestants (especially Presbyterian) favoured more liberal politics they found themselves constantly under attack by the colder ascendancy groups.

The Orange Order was mobilised as an "anti-home Rule weapon" and used to try and create serious opposition to the movement despite the fact that the Home Rule movement (and the more radical wing of land reformists) not only welcomed many Protestants but also many Orangemen. Protestants in Ulster were psy-opped into becoming not much more than a tool of the British Conservative Party, despite having a very established tradition of liberal politics. It is far more than a cucked ideology, its an ideology that was invented out of thin air to oppose another ideology which has been defunct for over a century now. Mad

>>18325199
Holy cope. The IRA wanted to drag Northern Ireland out of the UK. They failed to do this. Britain won

>>18325199
Just going to retcon all the hardliners of 26+6=1 huh?

>>18325199
>>18325217
Irishfag has been summoned. Reminder this anon likes to roleplay as a firebrand Irish patriot but he doesn't care (and probably cheers for) the replacement of ethnic Irishmen by hordes of third-worlders, he only cares about spiting dead British. He deflects and evades the issue of mass immigration by mentioning /pol/ every single time.

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>>18325306
British Army doesn't agree.

Again, the status of NI being in the UK wasn't up for debate until Loyalists decided that any concession to Nationalists was worth killing civilians to avoid.
>>18325389
How is that a "retcon", anon? Irish Nationalists/Republicans existed, sure. Didn't have any meaningful way to participate in NI's politics until after the Troubles had already started, and they sure as shit didn't have the means to actually push for constitutional change.

You may be forgetting that the SDLP (who fucking hated the IRA) won more votes than any other party in Northern Ireland in the 1998 elections. There were constitutional nationalists throughout the Troubles who did indeed want Irish Unity, but who disavowed Republicanism. Until the violence of the 1960s began (which again was not started by the IRA), the constitutional status of Northern Ireland was not up for debate.
>>18325398
I am sorry that you think /pol/ and /his/ should be 1 board. I think for the quality of both, they should be separate.

I tell you to go back to >>>/pol/ because this is /his/, not /pol/ with dates. I am sorry you are so hyper-sensitive about this. I hope you won't waste your time spending the next 30 posts seething about the fact that I think derailing threads with /pol/ posts is bad and stupid.

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>>18325543
Taig Cope
Taigs were dominated by Ulster BVLLS
Just like how Ulster Klansmen and Confederates killed Taigs despite being outnumbered 100 to 1

>>18324340
Retarded and unfunny shitpost unworthy of a single (You).
>>18325199
>Status Quo remains
This was literally their primary, if not sole, objective, other than ending the violence which they also succeeded with.
Don't conflate Ulster Unionists, who did indeed lose, with the British government.

>>18325597
>Taigs were dominated by Ulster BVLLS
Loyalist Paramilitaries killed more than twice as many fellow Loyalist Paramilitary members than they did members of the IRA.
>>18325603
>This was literally their primary, if not sole, objective
I guess I didn't really explain what I mean.

To say Britain "won" simply because NI remained in the UK is silly, because the Troubles did not start over whether NI stayed or didn't stay in the UK. The Troubles started because of out of control rioting as a result of Loyalist+RUC attacks on the Civil Rights movement. The political settlement very clearly favoured Irish Nationalists, and the British Army considers the military outcome a stalemate.
>Don't conflate Ulster Unionists, who did indeed lose, with the British government.
I try not to; Unionists are absolutely the losers of the conflict, but I don't think Britain really gained anything that makes them a "winner." Britain's goals shifted throughout the conflict and they tried (and failed) multiple times to force a political settlement/to suppress the IRA. It just feels silly to me that
>you gain nothing
>nationalists gain lots
>military stalemate
says "win." I'd say Britain comes in 2nd after Irish Nationalists in terms of who the ultimate outcome favoured most-followed by Republicans, then Unionists.

>>18325617
a less wordy way for me to put this I guess is
>troubles ended in a military stalemate and a political compromise
>no true winner in a political compromise; britain lost too much to call it a win, but despite the heavy concessions NI remains in the UK so nationalists can't call it a true win
>only true loser (group who lost a great deal without gaining anything) are ulster unionists

>>18325617
Stop coping for the fact that you get battered by Ulstermen everywhere you go
Irish fenians got slaughtered by canadian militiamen in the 1860s, got slaughtered by confederate anglos, absolute bitch race

>>18324580
OP is a schizophrenic shitposter.

>>18325617
>the Troubles did not start over whether NI stayed or didn't stay in the UK
The early phase of a conflict can often give you a vastly different impression of what the conflict as a whole was about, and that's certainly true here so you shouldn't be fixated on it when you determine who was the victor.
Even so, the other objective I mentioned is still relevant for 1969.
>but I don't think Britain really gained anything that makes them a "winner."
You don't need to "gain" anything to win if your objective is only maintenance of the status quo
>I'd say Britain comes in 2nd after Irish Nationalists
If you by "Irish Nationalists" mean the SDLP-types then sure, they're both winners, and Republicans and Unionists are both losers.
>>18325623
What the fuck did they lose that they weren't willing to give up from the get-go? The GFA was just a rehash of the Sunningdale Agreement

>>18325597
based, i thought the kkk was about hating niggers? nobody told me it was about keeping (((popery))) out

>>18325199
and all that only to import a millions niggers from the dankest depths of the congo

>>18326712
Most immigrants aren't even from the Congo dullard.

Irish-Americans are so embarrassing sometimes, they want to be Palestine or Ukraine, etc etc so bad while the British don't think about them.

>>18325543
So is Ireland united right at this moment? Yes or no?

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All you non-British and non-Irish fags weighing in here are retards who want to larp about a conflict you have no salt in.

The fact is most people in mainland UK do not care one bit about the 6 counties of NI. The whole place is a money sink as it costs more to run than it takes in for taxes. The uk would gain money from losing it. The only reason the UK holds onto the 6 counties is simply because the majority of the population there want to stay part of the uk.

The Republic of Ireland gov pretends to want the 6 counties but they know it would be expensive and difficult with Protestant loyalists orangemen chimping out and blowing shit up. Also, the two economies are run differently. NI has a British NHS that would be hard to incorporate into Ireland healthcare.

Since the 1998 GFA NI basically runs itself for most shite

>>18327101
Fuck off taig
Most people in the UK support Ulster which is why i can go to my town on the 12th and see orange bands marching and why english people helped loyalist militas in the 70s and 80s

>>18325543
You lost. Northern Ireland is still British

>>18327056
No, but of course the Troubles did not start over that issue. Reductive thinking is very stupid and would see you laughed out of the room by anyone with even a basic understanding of the Troubles.
>>18325667
I feel like we're sort of on the same page re: the Troubles evolved as a conflict, but the whole "winners and losers" thing just doesn't make sense to me because there were multiple belligerents all with their own goals and the only ones who didn't lose anything while gaining a lot where Irish Nationalists, in particular those of the SDLP.
>You don't need to "gain" anything to win if your objective is only maintenance of the status quo
I suppose I just think that 30 years of military failures and multiple political failures followed up by a compromise with your enemy doesn't make sense as a "win" for anyone to me. Britain certainly didn't see it as a "win." Maybe if the Anglo-Irish Agreement had stuck.
>If you by "Irish Nationalists" mean the SDLP-types then sure
Yep. Obviously Republicans gained a lot as many were Irish Catholics and thus gained from the GFA, but the GFA was also a death knell for Republicanism as a mainstream political ideology-something that remained the case until literally the last few years.
>What the fuck did they lose that they weren't willing to give up from the get-go?
The RUC was disbanded, for a start.
I do mostly agree with the whole "sunningdale for slow learners" thing but I also agree that the crucial difference is that the GFA (unlike Sunningdale) had support of people locally, while Sunningdale didn't.

I dunno if I'd even consider post-GFA Northern Ireland to be "status quo" and we constantly see efforts by the British Government to try undermine/circumvent it when they want to.

>>18324340
I find it funny when Northern Irish traitors are called "loyalists".

>>18327341
How are they traitors? Ireland was never a real entity until the British united them similar to India. Breaking away to try and make an independent Ireland is traitorous to the crown which gave them sovereignty

>>18327428
trvke.

>>18327341
How are they traitors? Northern Ireland has always been a part of the UK. If anything it's republicans who are traitors