>>18325665
They needed American oil

>>18325666
They could get oil from Dutch East Indies

>>18325665
>Anyways it was almost impossible for Roosevelt to force the congress declaring war without Pearl Harbor
The Japanese didn't know this. They just assumed an attack on the British and Dutch colonies would bring the United States into the war, so they might as well attack the giant chain of islands in between everything else they were attacking now.

They thought war with America was inevitable because of some misunderstandings

>>18325699
>They just assumed an attack on the British and Dutch colonies would bring the United States into the war,
Would it?

>>18325763
Likely not. The house only passed land lease act with 260–165 in 1941 while Germans were actively bombing London, a declaration of war with axis was hardly possible

File: JapanPearlHarbor.png (60.7 KB)

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>>18325665

>>18325833
Well their strategy was actually right (though a bit crazy) without the part on attacking America. The don’t actually need Philippines after they controlled indochina and the navy could be deployed to Indian Ocean without the war in pacific.

>>18325665
Japanese strategic thought in Southeast Asia revolved around the removal of colonial powers. They believed that the light American garrison could be subdued and the Philippines brought into their Japanese "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere". They planned on doing this sooner or later so when they felt the opportunity to attack the United States had presented itself (all European powers busy in Europe) they took it. The idea that the US would launch a protracted multiyear war to retake the Philippines was not considered seriously.

>>18325863
If your goal is to ship oil from Indonesia northwards, then you're going to have to send your ships pretty close to the Philippines, and all the more circuitous routes take you near some other American base like Guam. The presence of American forces there was a huge strategic problem for the Japanese, because even if the US didn't declare war over Indonesia, if at some point in the future they decided the time had come to act directly against Japan, it'd be easy for them to interdict all Japanese shipping in the South Pacific. If the Japanese pursued the negotiation route and America declared war on them anyway, the war would be over before it even began.

The Japanese knew they were at a huge material disadvantage compared to the Americans. They couldn't afford to just wait until America declared war on them, if war was inevitable (and they believed it was) they had to strike first and strike hard. Their only path to victory required removing all American bases on their side of the Pacific before America knew what was happening.

>>18325666
>>18325678
More specifically they needed American refineries, not crude oil
Japan having oil isn’t going to do shit when they couldn’t refine it

>>18325737
Because of the allied embargo after they sabotaged what the 8 nation alliance did and blew up the Qing
They lost access to
crude oil
refined fuel
refinery parts
cracking catalysts
spare machinery

All of which they couldn't easily replace domestically

>>18325763
>>18325800
Yeah the funny thing is it wasn't actually too likely. In spite of the conspiracy theories about how FDR wanted to get into the war with Japan he had a much bigger problem with Germany. The moves he made against the Japanese in the Pacific were genuinely to discourage them from fucking around over there so he could focus on the Atlantic. Again though, the Japanese didn't really know that.

>>18326053
Roosevelt goaded the Japanese into attacking them to get America into the war. Had Hitler not declared war in the following days, I doubt it would've taken long anyway for America to intervene in Europe with their leg in the door already. Just see the Soviet Union's war against Japan.

>>18326090
FDR and Stalin were hell bent on spreading their far-left degeneracy worldwide. Truman had a tall order in attempting to course-correct that mess.

>>18325678
>>18325666
They could get lot oil from sakhalin

The Philippines sit right there along the main route to the South China Sea. Ignoring the Americans won't make them go away, and if the US decides to declare ware, they can easily cut off the Japanese Empire in half using the Philippines as a staging point for their navy.

If the Japanese high command were convinced that the US would intervene eventually it made sense to preemptively evict them from such a strategically important position. Waiting until the Americans declare war is too late. They had already written off American oil, so their only hope was to secure the Dutch East Indies for themselves for long term oil supply. And that meant securing the South China Sea, which meant removing American forces stationed there.

>>18326090
>>Roosevelt goaded the Japanese into attacking them to get America into the war.
This narrative makes no sense because there was no guarantee Hitler would declare war on the US. The Japanese attacking the US wouldn't be justification to declare war on Germany. Germany was under no obligation to join Japan's war against the US because it didn't satisfy their agreement, which said only if one of the Axis powers were attacked, would a declaration of war be required. Japan voided that by being the aggressor. Hitler could have just said "welp, sorry you're on your own!" but he didn't.

>>18326208
He was probably hoping that declaring war on the U.S. would make the Japanese feel so grateful that they would join in on the war against the USSR.

>>18326208
Roosevelt almost planned 1940 bombed Japanese mainland from China, anon

>>18325665
Too high of a risk. Japan believed America would get involved if they attacked European colonies. This concern was understandable, considering Japan sending troops into French Indochina is what caused US aggression against Japan to begin with

>>18325763
Probably. FDR was desperate to get the US into the war

>>18326208
>Japan voided that by being the aggressor.
US was the aggressor. It was the oil embargo and Hull note that caused the war. Additionally, the Flying Tigers had been attacking the Japanese for months prior to Pearl Harbor and the US planned to bomb Japan from China (JB355)

>>18327229
Fuck off nip. Two weren't enough. Ten would have gone a long way to correct your perfidity.

>>18327288
NTA but kill yourself. The only reason why you even exist right now is because Japan let you. If the attack wasn’t cancelled, your continent would have been a dead wasteland
q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_PX&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiAwN_1hr6SAxVN8DQHHWcrDtIQFnoECAoQAg&usg=AOvVaw2TZke3KmqSBqiYbrt_jmkY

>>18325665
>Anyways it was almost impossible for Roosevelt to force the congress declaring war without Pearl Harbor
The US navy was already actively fighting Germany in the Atlantic, despite not being officially at war. FDR would have just done the same in the Pacific.

>>18326208
American warships had been firing on German submarines for months leading up to the declaration of war. They were also escorting British convoys and had occupied Iceland, the territory of a combatant nation. Germany had every right to declare war on the USA

>>18325665
Eri Hotta's book "Japan 1941: countdown to infamy" does a very good job of explaining this. Essentially the military had so completely sidelined the civilian parts of the government, particularly Japan's diplomatic corps that they were operating from a pure miltary strategy perspective, and had grave misconceptions about the political and cultural situation in America. The generals and admirals looked at the map and said America's control of the philipines is problematic because it cuts japan's empire in half. They thought war with america was probably inevitable anyway so best to start it with a devastating surprise attack. Since america was just a decadent democracy it would not have the stomach for the meat grinder Japan would insist on turning the war into, and America would negotiate peace relatively quickly so long as they kept the pressure on. Or so they thought. There were no America experts consulted before this decision was made who could have explained what a grave misjudgment that was.

>>18325863
Or they could just, you know, not try to conquer half the world and be satisfied with their not insignificant empire of Korea, Taiwan, Okinawa, and Manchuria.

>>18327288
I'm British, retard

>>18327750
>not try to conquer half the world
They weren't. It was the western colonial powers that had conquered half the world. Japan liberated Asia from western colonialism. Learn real history, idiot

>>18327760
Do you drink tea and eat chip?

>>18327229
How would you handle Hull note in Tojō place?

>>18325665
They could've, but that would mean that accepting that their shipping routes could be targeted by US forces in the Philippines at a moments notice. Japan didn't want to tolerate such a strategic vulnerability. FDR also made it clear that he wouldn't tolerate further Japanese expansion into SEA after Japan occupied French Indochina. From the Japanese perspective, it was more efficient to just cripple the US in a surprise attack, take all the islands with now protected shipping lanes, and then hunker down, which is what they tried to do.