>>18326697
He got in trouble for calling the Pope retarded, but still, I agree. Europe only recovered from its retardation once they embraced their Greco-Roman heritage. With Jews, you lose.

>>18326697
It was honestly more because the European scholars were classics circlejerkers and thought that Aristotle already solved the natural sciences.

>>18326701
Nope. They literally cite the Book of Joshua and God “stopping the sun” as proof of geocentrism.

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>>18326706
>divine miracle where God intervened to aid Israel
>divine miracle
>aid Israel
You cannot make this up

>>18326699
This is the most Reddit of positions. The people that preserved knowledge and history from the Classical Age were monks. The first universities in Europe were established by monks. As were hospitals.

Just because the Church initially believed things we later found out to be scientifically untrue, like geocentrism, does not mean that Europe was in a perpetual state of retardation until we removed the cringe pozzed kiked veil and became based ubermensch pagans again.

>>18326727
>The people that preserved knowledge and history from the Classical Age were monks.
Who gives a shit
>The first universities in Europe were established by monks. As were hospitals.
We don't care
>does not mean that Europe was in a perpetual state of retardation
It absolutely was for at the minimum 5 centuries

>>18326727
>The people that preserved knowledge
Knowledge from... when? The Hellenistic and Classical period?
>The first universities in Europe were established by monks
Teaching... what? Aristotle, Plato, Euclid, the Roman Digest?
>As were hospitals
What literature did they use to train their doctors? Galen?
You can call it Reddit all you want, but if your men "preserved" knowledge while they were knee deep in Christianity and only started to develop substantial developments in science, mathematics, law, philosophy, commerce, and finance once they started to wade out of it, that seems to indicate that Christianity indeed made Europe retarded.

>>18326732
*started to make substantial developments

>>18326727
The fact christianity preserved knowledge instead of creating new knowledge already shows how stagnant it was.

>>18326732
Europe did not “wade” out of Christianity until the 19th and 20th centuries. Not the 16th. Without Christianity, the Dark Ages and the loss of knowledge from the ancient world would have been far darker. No one is denying the Classical World had flashes of brilliance and ordered society. As had Christian Europe. Christianity preserved the link between the two. It would have been far harder for later medieval Europeans to have a Renaissance and Scientific Revolution without the work of monks and the church. It likely wouldn’t have happened at all. You subscribe to the Whig view of history in which, as time passes, man must march from a state of primitive barbarism into an ever more enlightened state of complexity and moral perfection. A misunderstanding, ironically, that is unique to Christian societies. As it is comes from Christian instincts.

>>18326736
Christians did make new inventions. Many innovations of medieval Europe came from Christians. Unique things that the Classicals did not have. Do you think Europe was some pagan scientific paradise until the 5th century, when Christianity toppled le Roman Empire and then we spent the next 1000 years in a grimdark dystopia of Church enforced ignorance until humanists and Freemasons lifted us out of it? Complete misunderstanding of history.

>>18326737
No, you're just wrong. The Renaissance marks the beginning of a shift away from Christianity.

>>18326740
>Many innovations of medieval Europe came from Christians.
Like what? Don't look it up, just list five.

>>18326740
>Unique things that the Classicals did not have
Ah yes, tons of torture devices for heretics, how unique and awesome, what else? Um nothing else matters actually except for god and church so we're not gonna focus on that question
>we spent the next 1000 years in a grimdark dystopia of Church enforced ignorance until humanists and Freemasons lifted us out of it?
Um yes, the middle ages literally lasted 1000 years

>>18326742
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_technology
Read for yourself
>>18326743
No serious historian even considers the “Dark Ages” to have lasted 1,000 years. Like I said, complete Reddit understanding of history. The Dark Ages means the 6th to 9th centuries when the record was patchy. Not entirely lost mind you, because monks were tirelessly copying and preserving ancient books and works.

>>18326741
How so? Because some people were humanists? Because of the Reformation? If you want to claim that, then the Waldensians, Bogomils, Cathars before them, could also be seen as the “beginning of a shift”

>>18326748
>Read for yourself
Lazy nigger.
>>18326754
Again, you’re wrong. Humanism and Protestantism are distinct and paradigm forming movements.

>>18326742
>eyeglasses (massively important as it helped increased productivity by age)
>mechanical clocks
>music notation that we use today
>gothic cathedrals surpassing pyramids in height for the first time since almost 4000 years; not even the romans ever did this even though they had the concrete
>agriculture revolution

take granted all of these are high-late medieval, but i don’t really care about rehabilitating the true early medieval dark ages that much, plus the whole point is that they were invented before the whole classical antiquity renaissance we know it

They were always retarded stop using christianity as the excuse.

>>18326740
ancient greece was the real scientific paradise until the romans took over and spread hedonism, which nullified science

>>18326776
indeed. most classical innovation had ceased by alexander’s day. apart from maybe galen later on

>>18326772
>Optics developed through study of Greek writings passed on by the Arabs
>Renaissance, water based clocks are from the Hellenistic period and spring powered clocks are early Modern
>Good example
>Good example
>Early modern period
Ok, so you have two things that are distinctly Medieval and it’s for music and architecture, two fields of aesthetics. How exactly does this disprove the original argument?

>>18326776
>>18326777
Classical Greeks were fucking retards, ultimately pointless scientific achievement and philosophy is waste of fucking time, Romans were better, KYS

>>18326810
mechanical clocks were distinctively medieval
i refer to the agriculture revolution of the high middle ages

>>18326813
Romans didnt even fucking do anything, the most overrated people in history.

>>18326697
go away jeet, you stink
fucking braindead walking latrine

>>18326699
europe only got retarded when ti was flooded by germans

>>18326821
>The first known geared clock was invented by the great mathematician, physicist, and engineer Archimedes during the 3rd century BC.

>>18326835
wow some tinkerer making a mechanism that can vaguely be interpreted as a clock one time is so much more impressive than creating an entire industry around building sophisticated clocks that are accurate to the second for decades

>>18326854
Mechanical water clocks have been created many times, but it’s not a medieval INVENTION.

>>18326737
>Without Christianity, the Dark Ages and the loss of knowledge from the ancient world would have been far darker
The onset of Christianity is what stopped the preservation of pagan traditions in the first place. Some Christians preserving a couple texts relating to larger traditions isn’t a service to paganism, it’s more like putting a bandaid on a stab-wound that you inflicted. Imagine if I lit your house on fire and burned it to the ground, but went inside and grabbed your television and handed it to you before it got destroyed. Would you get on your knees and thank me? Obviously not.

Besides, pagans had already been copying and preserving these texts for centuries and would have continued to do so without Christianity. Christianity was absolutely not necessarily for the preservation of these texts.

>>18326860
This is their only way of coping. Many Greek texts were preserved by Byzantine and Islamic scholars who had no ties to the church. In fact, they did a better job at doing so! Aquinas only read Aristotle because of the Arabs.

>>18326859
>water
Mechanical clocks were invented in medieval Europe

>>18326860
>pagan sperging out of nowhere
lol

>>18326697
??? The Romans and Greeks believed the same thing

>>18326863
They absolutely were not. Why are you lying?

>>18326872
lmao what am I even supposed to say to this? You might as well claim the sun revolves around the earth.

>>18326868
They never executed people for "heresy"

>>18326875
Socrates

>>18326874
Whatever narrow definition you’re using for mechanical clocks does not align with the actual meaning of a “mechanical” clock.

>>18326881
What the fuck are you talking about? Do Geneva pocket watches have water in them?

>>18326886
Mechanical water clocks are still water clocks. Using weights instead of water only changes the cause of motion and not the components that qualify it as being mechanical.

>>18326699
Fpbp

>>18326743
Most of the Inquisition's practices hailed from classical antiquity they did not originate in the Middle Ages. The Romans already did torture shit well before the Christian era.

>>18326697
Theres a reason philosophy classes go from the ancient Greeks/Romans to Descartes.

Medieval Christian europe was a black hole where the greatest minds were reduced to making christ apologia or arguing bullshit like Yeshu Ben yosuf was fully man, fully god, or both lmfao

>>18326927
>Yeshu Ben yosuf
Actually it's Yeshu Ben Pandera

>>18326923
not to mention the inquisition actually had relatively fair trials with a focus on due process and limiting punishment

we read too much protestant/enlightenment propaganda meant to portray spanish catholicism in a bad light

>>18326939
There should not have been an inquisition to begin with. Nobody should have had the shitstain religion of Catholicism enforced on them.

>>18326929
>>18326927
Denounce Vishnu.

>>18326959
I denounce Vishnu, Allah, and Yahweh. Now what?

>>18326927
Shalom, rabbi

>>18326959
Im neither of those anons, but what is with this weird new cope of you guys thinking everyone who critiques christianity is indian or a tranny or a jew? The overwhelming majority of us are straight white male atheists. The majority of white people in the modern world are atheists. It isn't indians or jews coming on this board to make anti-christian posts.
>>18326975
the epstein files literally show that christianity is a psyop by jews to control goyim. You lost

>>18326975
>>18326959
>If you dont worship Yeshu Ben Yosuf of Bethlehem of Judah youre a fucking filthy jew or Indian

The wignat Christian will never not be hilarious lmfao

>>18326980
They’re not even white. Oftentimes they are brown skinned Latinos.

>>18326979
>The overwhelming majority of us are straight white male atheists
that could have been true in 2002 before India gained Internet access

On that note, I did notice that the rate of atheist and LARPagan spam threads significantly drops on Saturday aka the Shabbat. Really makes you think.

>>18326995
even Hitler thought LARPagans were dum

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the Christian religion to be honest derives more from classical Greek ideas than anything Jewish, indeed the Jews themselves were influenced by Greek ideas in the Hellenistic era. admittedly if you asked Varg he would tell you the Greeks aren't actually white so he's at least logically consistent in saying "real" white culture is living in a thatched hut in the woods which is what northern Europe was pre-Christian era.

Catholics aren’t Christian

>>18326697
Ok, by only using the model and calculations derived from Galileo's work predict the position of planets a month from now. You can't. It's just unfinished. Ptolemaic system can do it quite accurately just fyi.
And you see there you have Galileo, who is simply asked to rationally defend his wonky model by other astronomers of the era. What does he do? He doesn't write a polemic where he says look my model is incomplete but there are things in my observational data proving that yours is simply wrong. No. He writes a dialogue. In the dialogue, he, Galileo, discusses his idea with personification of his detractors in his mind, he calls that personification Simplicimus - a fool, in other words.

He got exactly what he deserved.

>>18327003
19th century Europeans came up with a lot of we wuzzist copes that the civilizations of the Mediterranean and Near East were Nordic people who got ethnically cleansed by shitskins to relieve the embarrassment of how backwards their ancestors were.

>>18326706
No he’s right, they believed this because of Aristotle their misuse of the bible was an afterthought

>>18326995
It doesn't, you're making shit up because you're an idiot.

This entire thread is full of stupid atheists saying stupid things

>>18327017
Atheists are smarter than you.

>>18327011
I know all about Neo-Aristotelianism. Top scholars were myopic and relied on ancient doctrines which were logical given the data; however, in order to be charged with heresy they used examples such as the one in Joshua to argue that Galileo was denying the faith.

>>18327010
Oh yes the Northern Europeans didn't believe you cure fever with blood letting, can you believe being this stupid? Lmao.

>>18327003
Rabbinic Judaism for example totally derived from Greek pedagogery, it had nothing to do with anything existed in the Iron Age Near East.

>>18327020
Exactly, the reason for which they believed in geocentricism was Aristotle and not scripture, they used scripture as a post hoc excuse to punish dissent from the Aristotelian dogma. They did something similar with transubstantiation.
The problem here was not too much faith in scripture but too much faith in the church of Rome.
>>18327018
That’s blatantly not true.

>>18327031
I agree. And that’s why Protestant states had the most significant advances in science, technology, and economics.

tbqh they also got upset at Bruno suggesting there could be many Earths out there with their own intelligent races of men. the Church didn't even want to deal with that idea because did it mean there must be a thousand Jesuses who came to save a thousand different planets and that was way too much shit to contemplate.

The Jews and Muslims were living in enlightenment and science in the medieval times while Christian Europeans died by the thousands in plagues caused by horrible sanitation and believed demons caused illness.

>>18326727
Always hilarious to see christians applaud those exceptionally few medieval monks who... helped preserve pagan culture.

No-one actually cares about all the christian shit they did.

>>18326697
>t. man who bathes in cow feces and wanks in public

>>18327099
See >>18327103

>>18326727
Monks just had the leisure and free time other social classes did not have so they could experiment more with stuff.
Greek savants were the same, this had barely anything to do with religion. Just resources, space and time.

>>18327110
I worship my ancestor Wotan.

>>18326741
The Renaissance marks the beginning of the era of massive witch hunts and extreme religious wars.

Humanism is enormously cringe, favored poetry and sophist rhetoric over Scholastic logic and reason.

>>18327018
Epstein thought he was smarter than everyone else too, but wrote at a 9th grade level at best and was an IFLS fedora tipping edgelord.

Just like you.

>>18326699
Excellent post.

>>18326697
>Christianity is at fault for upholding the teachings of a Hellenistic pagan

Notice when people think about European art they think off Greek statues or Renaissance paintings, or Renaissance buildings, all Christianity ever created is weird Jesus lore, coypasted massproduced churches, and mediocrity.

>>18327300
>Scholastic logic and reason
>”There is a prime mover, hence an irritable storm god and a kike on a stick made the entire world”
I denounce Vishnu

>>18327321
t. guy who worships an elephant man with 50 arms

>>18327321
Renaissance art was heavily religious centered though? It was mostly Protestantism that killed off religious art as a viable field.

>>18327103
>being a jeet is when you admire antiquity
Buck broken

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>>18327323
Ancient Hindus were white, do not mistake modern jeets for the historical Vedic religion

>>18327348
They worship a dude born in a cave at the height of classical civilization

>when the mexican calls you indian for not believing in the jewish mythology followed by africans
Brown internet theory

>>18327373
in the Web 1.0 days there were a lot of fedora tipping atheist white guy neckbeards but they're all gone now; most became SJWs during the Obama years and often transitioned. also India didn't have Internet access back then.

and tbqh giving Jews credit or whatever for Christianity is just playing into their hand and giving them what they want. the Christian religion was really an amalgamation of all different religious trends in the Roman world that all came together. Judaism was one component but very far from the only component.

>>18326706
Huh, so how do Christians cope with their book saying something happened that we now know is impossible?

>>18326697
Isn't the pope supposed to speak to God, how come he didn't consult him before arresting Galileo over heresy?

>>18326699
Christianity is distinctly a Roman invention.

>>18326927
>Medieval Christian europe was a black hole where the greatest minds were reduced to making christ apologia or arguing bullshit like Yeshu Ben yosuf was fully man, fully god, or both lmfao

The dropping off the -a at the end of Yeshua's name is a rabbinical insult designed to curse the name (which is blessed and will never be erased.)

Pakistani Bro is Jewish.

>>18327400
>>18326708

I read years ago that the actual Hebrew is not "stop" but could be interpreted as "reduce the influence of" or "stop in its work." I'm not a Space Nerd but someone who was a Space Nerd analyzed it and there was some possible interpretation involving gravity or slowing rotation or something.

It transpires that when everyone hates you and wants you tied to a stake squealing as your flesh melts away and more and more logs are thrown on the fire under you, mocking and shittalking the one guy keeping you alive is a bad idea. Some genius huh?

>>18326697
Imagine how enlightened Europe would be if only the poop festivals and animal sacrifice were preserved

>>18326697
the pope had told galileo he was welcome to share his ideas as long as he couched them as a theory unless he could provide proof (he couldn't)
he then depicted himself as the gigachad and the pope as the basedjak when he wrote his book so the pope said fuck it no more being friends

>>18327300
>Humanism is enormously cringe, favored poetry and sophist rhetoric over Scholastic logic and reason.
that's a based reaction to scholastic autism however

>>18327322
>my argument is screeching about how I hate God
Proving his point by acting like the retard you are

>>18328015
That didn’t happen, ancient Greco-Romans believed in something called miasma and believed that the gods wanted cleanliness; however, Christians did do stuff like that.
>St. Catherine of Siena: While tending to a woman with cancerous breast sores, she was disgusted. Intending to overcome that disgust, she gathered the sore pus into a ladle and drank it all. That night, she was visited by Jesus who invited her to drink the blood gushing out of his pierced side. It was with this visitation that her stomach "no longer had need of food and no longer could digest."
>Feast of the Ass: A girl and a child on a donkey would be led through town to the church, where the donkey would stand beside the altar during the sermon. (At the end of Mass, the priest turned to the spectators. In lieu of saying the 'Ite missa est', will bray thrice; the people instead of replying 'Deo Gratias', say 'Hinham, hinham, hinham.')
>St. Symeon: It was entirely as if Symeon had no body, and he paid no attention to what might be judged disgraceful conduct either by humans or by nature. Often, indeed, when his belly sought to do its private function, immediately, and without blushing, he squatted [ἐκαθéζετο] in the market place, wherever he found himself, in front of everyone, wishing to persuade [others] by this, that he did this because he had lost his natural [κατὰ φύσιν] sense.

>>18329161
Hahahaha you are brown

>>18329202
100% white actually. Not that it matters.