its gotta be some sorta larp. he does the trace guidline but then doesnt follow it. i have my concentration issues and i notice and stop for a bit to regain my mojo, but this is still weird. he alwayas does this
>drawing in a digital art program with limitless possibilities, ultimate convenience at one's fingertips >reference is right there on screen >draws useless shitty gobbledygook over it >but never traces the actual contours of the reference to see what it would look like in lines >never even considers actually just tracing it It's not the tracing in and of itself that matters, but I'm convinced the mental rigidity you see in this guy explains why some people just never progress no matter what. I feel like it should occur to you try something that obvious early on, but some people never even try something that simple. They have a thousand unexamined, unconscious scruples about what is "allowed" and they won't just try new and unconventional ideas. Maddening stuff.
>if the human ability to learn, adapt, and improve at concepts doesn't exist, then explain this [incredibly small sample size of people with mental deficiencies i'm going to use as an excuse to not try]
>>7895657 he's stupid or retarded because clearly doesnt pay attention to his own guidelines. willingly ignorant. actually i know for a fact he is retarded because he has yellow fever
>>7895632 >They have a thousand unexamined, unconscious scruples about what is "allowed" and they won't just try new and unconventional ideas. this is a very interesting point actually. like a domesticated animal
>>7895632 It is easy to get caught up in what is right or wrong, to the point that it becomes impossible to apply what you learn, since you get caught up in the concern that if you draw something in this new way, you're just ripping off the pieces you studied/copied, so you wind up reverting to your already ingrained drawing methods.
>>7895611 >>7896355 Draw with pen and paper. You can omit lines and details to make it more visually appealing. Notably don't draw the bridge of her nose, skip the nostrils, or just draw the nostril holes only. You're drawing hair in an extremely messy way. Break it into solid shapes/planes, like they were paper. Not random threads of hair. Enlarge the image, squint your eyes, and draw roughly what you see from that as well. But again, pen and paper forces you to think extremely strategically for where each line goes, and you WILL mess up a LOT. But it's part of the process of hard-wiring your mind to be more objective AND selective in line use and weight.
>>7896355 all the references suck as well. its like trying to draw a turd. actually, you'd get more practice out of a well lit, high resolution turd than some cosplay or gook roastoid
>>7897669 Because that's how just about every beginner artist starts out, thinking drawing is just eyeballing the lines and xerox machine printing everything in one go. It's when they're introduced to fundies and building things out of basic shapes they start to develop a better workflow. That is unless you're this guy who still doesn't have a clue what the construction lines he's shitting on the canvas are meant for. Probably because he's more focused on churning out content for his YT channel than figuring out what's wrong with his drawing.
>>7897721 >>7897669 He should be focusing on getting his proportions accurate with simple lines that denote the brow ridge/eye-line/bottom of nose/mouth. Only AFTER your proportions are consistently accurate should you be even considering placing features on them.
But yea, he's probably just interested in churning out content than analyzing how to learn better.
>>7897721 well even eyeballing copying he should be getting much closer. I have no clue if hes trying to copy or do his own thing since hes so off on everything. not one line is even remotely close on the examples provided itt
>>7897728 >>7897737 Well, to be fair to the guy I think I see some improvement. There is an honest attempt to place the major masses and landmarks accurately, he just seems to get tripped up by small things like the bangs partly covering the eyebrows and as a result he gets the brow line and the angle of the head wrong. He's also at the stage where he knows the general placement of some more distinctive landmarks but doesn't understand how they work so he just makes a guess and sticks them ontop, like the collar bones and especially the breasts that look more like a butt crack. I don't know if he's done any deeper studies on anatomy, judging by his videos it looks like he's mostly drawing from reference alternating between photographs and screenshots of anime girls.
>>7897669 >should There's more than one way to learn to draw, though he does tend to draw construction lines and completely ignore it. >>7897740 Stop this holier than thou shit, it is a part of human nature to shit on people., every one in every field does it. I just wish these autists didn't go in the comment section trying to sound smart because they're 5% better than this guy. >You niggers have no intention of actually drawing, do you? I usually come to this board AFTER I'm done drawing to goof off, like you and your comments.
>>7898227 I believe that IS referenced from an anime, can't for the life of me recall it's name but the character is familiar. This >>7895956 is his animu drawing skills without reference.
>>7898230 Isn't that the Vizard bitch from bleach? I'm terrible with remembering anime names I have to do a search everytime someone names anyone from JJK still don't remember the Sakura of the main group's name.
>>7901543 Not that anon but omit lines as in leave out all but the absolutely necessary details, like >>7896393 spelled out: >don't draw the bridge of her nose, skip the nostrils, or just draw the nostril holes only Obviously you need to include the parts that make the image read such as contour lines, but things like the nose and lips are difficult to describe with bold lines. One may just use lines to indicate the deepest crevices where the shadows are darkest, and use tone to show more subtle palin changes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op3LaScnoKI >focused on making comics rather than endless practice >not worrying if things aren't perfect >still doing practice, but more structured this time >actually doing courses Wolfbros... is our boy... gmi?
>>7905573 >fun with a pencil Why, what does it have to do with anything here? I haven't read it personally. Far as I know that book aims to just show beginners how to draw simple caricatures out of simple shapes and, as the title implies, have fun trying to give your ideas form, and IIRC doesn't really delve into observational drawing that much.
Every time I feel like shit about my own art I see this guy uploading a new video makes me glad that I'm not this type of guy trying to restrict himself from practicing an hour daily, this guy practices his "fundamentals" only to just ditch them outright and ignore what he learned and it bothers me so damn much that I feel like I regressed just looking at him.
>>7895623 he's put in too much effort for this to be a troll anymore i think he's genuinely just phoning it in that hard, like he doesn't really have a passion for drawing. he just wants to mindlessly do work in hopes that he will magically improve from it, dedicating himself to reach arbitrary goals like that 100 head challenge. you can see from his process that he hardly ever corrects himself, he isn't stopping to take a look at his work to make sure he's doing it right. he needs a mentor to watch over him and show him exactly how to fix his fuckups
>>7908797 The problem I find with lips is that less is more. Adding too many lines, line in >>7897669, looks bad. It's usually better to do draw them using values.
>>7908833 >>7895699 >>7908934 >>7896624 >>7895807 >>7895731 The problem with this drawing is that it strays from the reference significantly. /ic/ constantly says, "draw what you see" and "copy the reference" and yadayada, and then they never actually show what a faithful copy is. It's always highly stylized art.
It makes me wonder if no one on /ic/ can really copy a face faithfully and has to rely on "style" just to get something viable since I tried to learn portrait drawing and doing it correctly is fucking hard as fuck. I've never seen it done here.
>>7909342 Sure, but CAN you do it? People on here say that you need to be able to draw something accurately to be able to draw well but I haven't seen proof that all these people who can drew well (even though it's stylized) can draw a face accurately.
Seems to me like it's false advice to waste beginners time with something that even experienced artists can't even do well.
>>7909342 >>7909391 To further drive the point home, when I studied Japanese, people said you had to learn all 2,500 Kanji.
Actual Japanese people barely know 1,200 of them.
This is true for almost any skill you try to pursue. People will tell you to do useless shit that even the really good people don't do. I am trying to figure out what is useless and what is absolutely essential.
A lot of art advice out there is just artists pulling shit out of their ass. Telling people to read a book they fucking skimmed or do an exercise they've never done before just because it sounds correct theoretically. But what I've noticed is that artists who are good never did that shit. Their learning was chaotic and most of the things they know is from just bruteforce. Doing something a bunch of times until they get it right.
This is good for the artist as they learn how to do something but bad for teaching. You can't teach bruteforce, you can only teach a method. So if you drew 1,000 anime pictures to learn observation rather than still lifes, you can't say that because it's obviously inefficient. So you just make up some other shit.
This is why /beg/ can't improve and no one has shown me proof yet that the sticky actually works. Show me a single student of /ic/ who actually went from /beg/ to /int/.
/ic/ has been around for more than a decade yet you can't even provide us with that?
Says a lot about how little you can actually learn from this website.
>>7909394 Accuracy is nonsense. Everyone that learnt how to draw well learnt by fucking around and having fun drawing exaggerated and funny shit. That's not just how you learn drawing, it's how the brain stores information, it filters things that are samey while making sure to remember things that break patterns. It's le science. Everyone in this thread who is trying to perfectly replicate every line is never going to make it. They're been trying to be perfectionists for years. Meanwhile everyone who draws stupid shit becomes great. It's a pattern you see everywhere.
>>7909405 I have been drawing since 2021, I used to draw for fun and anime girls, since a year I have been trying to draw more realistic and "accurated". But now I just cannot draw anything without anime style. I am fuck.
>>7909391 >>7909394 ur just talking bro, you haven't been around to see the artists that got good here. obviously when you look in /beg/ all you're going to get is /beg/'s no artist in the history of ever has gotten good without reference. it logically follows that they're drawing for accuracy, no matter what specific method they use
>>7910102 You say that and yet I never see it actually done. The majority of /ic/ is either /beg/ or nodraws. Just because one or two people got good on /ic/ doesn't mean it was because /ic/ that they got good. That's just survivorship bias.
>>7912623 >uses the basic bitch box angle that middle schoolers scribble in their notebooks not being able to apply knowledge from drawabox is unforeseen levels of ngmi
>>7916035 holy kek this is like a perfect case study and collection of the most common beg errors that aren't even really skill related >canvas too small, no room to draw outside of the intended frame >not taking general measurements for proportions >working from one area to the next instead of big to small, going for face and hair details ebfore >half the time of the drawing is spent on putting down the flat colors by meticulously trying to fill in within the borders costing valuable attention
learning construction and anatomy of a face is like so fucking useless unless you are very interested in portrait drawing it's weird that every beg gets hung up on it.
You'll get further just doing stylized copies of artist faces you like and Huston's simple triangle mask attached to a neck than you will with grinding this type of stuff.
>>7919395 nobody ever said just draw will get you better at art, just draw will get you to draw if you are a retard asking too many questions or hoarding supplies before starting
>>7919395 he draws for 30 minutes a day at best and 10 minutes per drawing not even following this trace lines. he is just legit retarded. just draw works, but you have to draw for hours and hours and not minutes. >inb4 pyw
>>7919973 time is immensly valuable. if you break it down, each human only has about 30.000 days to live considering he is healthy, which is around 700k hours. viewed like this its very little time. each day you dont "feel like it" is lost forever.
>>7920056 not them, but that’s so many.. life is the most amazing thing, but i’m so tired, and there are so many left sorry what am i saying, ignore the lurker
>>7920056 you dont really have nearly that much time to draw anyways. You can only really learn to draw between the ages of 15 to 25. Older than that and your life is already settled and you can just draw for fun if you really want to. People in their 20s only have a good 5 years left MAX and mental health severely limits that time. Just because you have a free day to draw doesn't mean you will be able to. If you're trying to learn how to draw in your 30s then you're on borrowed time and the only thing keeping you going is willpower. You have to sacrifice other things to make the time to draw.
>>7919395 You have to actually engage in consistent targeted study if you "just draw", otherwise it's just meandering and stagnation.
Do blind contours, gesture studies, and the envelope method as warmups. Then draw from memory, use the Shrimp Method, and then use the Cognitive Method in that order.
If you want faster results: >draw for several hours (giving yourself a break every 90 minutes), but draw every OTHER day
>>7920790 >>7920793 >He doesn't know that anyone can improve if they commit themselves to targeted practice, eat well, get plenty of sleep, and treat themselves kindly
>>7927206 I'm starting to think reinforcement of certain mindsets or processes can actually give you a form of mental retardation. Reminder this was proko drawing a dog
>>7927229 what is the deal with Proko isn't it an art tutorial channel ? i watched the chameleon "study" video and it was shockingly bad. he draws like this and yet he makes money off of offering courses?
>>7927602 >>7927229 He just doesn't specialize in imaginative and cartoony art. He seems to mostly do portraits and more realistic figure drawings. Sometimes though, as a teacher, he has to demonstrate certain concepts, even if that's not entirely his area of expertise. I heard from one of his interviews, that he regrets not putting more time into drawing from his imagination. He's a great artist, just, use him as a cautionary tale to draw from your imagination more.
>>7927610 That's his post-kangaroo cam age control, prior to that his stance was that if you know construction, you can just draw whatever you want from imagination, he literally had no idea he can't draw without reference when he started the stream, he got buckbroken by the ensuing mockery and backpedalled to being humble
>>7927624 >prior to that his stance was that if you know construction no, his stance was that knowledge of the underlying skeletal structure and understanding of how to construct form in 3d space aids in observational drawing. you're just making shit up. you've intentionally deprived yourself of some of the most genuinely useful and informative art instruction content because of an /ic/ meme.
>>7927624 >his stance was that if you know construction, you can just draw whatever you want from imagination He's not completely wrong. I think a construction-only person can brute force this. But his drawing doesn't demonstrate great construction, or other things in his basics course. Live drawing can be a lot like singing in front of a crowd. A fun exercise is to forget what the drawing is supposed to be of, and simply treat it as what it is. See it as a creature design document. Can we draw the Prokosaurus Nullnatis and give it more gesture, life, and structure, even at the sketch phase? There's no reason we can't.
>>7928115 >noooooooo you can't just btfo me the fuck out without effort, you must spend your valuable time pwning retards on the internet manually like a caveman nooooooo lol cry more
>>7928124 I'm not that anon. They rightly chose to ignore you. But you missed the point: there is no way someone with half a brain would trust the info from a screenshot of your convo with AI. If you think you're pwning retards that way... well, good for you. I guess you could copy this and ask AI if you pwned me.
>>7909394 Stop being a newfag retard. Plenty of people from the old LAS days and pre 2020s era have become legitimately successful pro tier artists. Thdark101, ynaf, Icantdravv, Catbib, Tehmeh etc....
>>7930507 Also adding to the list : BBChan, Firez, ortamaw, Jadf. Currently we have prod like Michael Macrae and Kaj Hagstrom popping in once in a few weeks in beg or draw all the time
>>7895611 Forcing yourself to use such rigid shapes as circles and boxes is just not very good, shapes are good to break down a complex object but the way he does it he's not breaking down anything at all he's just forcing it to fit an arbitrary shape
It would benefit him to use looser shapes during simplification I think
>>7936343 Because the draw an owl meme is unironically correct. And no matter how many steps are shown, you will feel it's not enough. Even entire videos like in this thread >7908039 won't be enough. Because you can't see the thinking involved. You can't visualize the choices being made. You have to read about it. You have to have been in the threads where these were first posted.
After careful examination of a few videos, I genuinely think this is the result of some kind of mental retardation. I mean what the fuck is this esdeathanon level of failure to just *copy*
>>7944256 If you understand shapes and volumes not much study bit of anatomy and if you understand how the head is structured and how it works it would be rather quick it's just then about getting it in your hand.
>>7944270 Yeah that's what I mean. How much grinding between the phase where you can photocopy a face using loomis or whatever to the point where you can quickly make cute stylized faces on a whim? I'm doing like 10 faces a day copying chommang's style, but I can't apply it very well without reference.
>>7944281 chommang has it's own stylization do you study his style too or you just picked him because you like his style ? I would avoid copying artists who are not doing photorealism or rather have photorealistic approach since it might alter your later view on anatomy.
What im trying to say even if it sounds gibberish is that usually when it comes to styled drawing they omit lines and details in order to simplify if you don't know why and how it works it will works against you and very hard.
>>7944287 I think I have a decent grasp of anatomy. Could be better and I like your suggestion to follow more photorealistic creators. But I want to learn to apply my own stylization and I like the way he does it. I don't like the tiny noses, but yeah, I think my problem isn't creating a realistic face, it's creating an aesthetic semi realistic face. I guess my goal is to be able to sit down and just draw from my imagination sometimes.
>>7936343 it's pretty simple once you understand what's going on. /asg/ has good videos that explain it. Basically, you start by breaking down the reference into simple big shapes. Notice any parts that could be turned into straight edges and draw those, anchor those lines to your other lines. This creates a series of shapes that are easy to copy accurately. Then you can use those as guidelines to add the detail. For example, your 2nd quoted one, the ref face has a lot of bumps, but he simplified it all as a straight line down the front of the face, and added the nose and lips at the correct height. From then, it's just a matter of comparing to the ref and making adjustments, like rounding the nose tip, or adding the little indent where the nose bridge meets the brow ridge.
The "rest of the fucking owl" is mindlessly adding detail and shading, which is easy but time consuming. Accurately measuring and replicating is what requires the most skill.
>>7946074 >Accurately measuring and replicating is what requires the most skill. i'd say its more of a concentration AND time issue. also the commitmen of redrawing entire parts if they look off. if the foundation is right, the rest is easy as you said.
>>7912623 this is like, below 12 oz mouse level, what the fuck, is this seriously how far he's come after all this time and alleged consistent practice?
>>7949118 >3 mins long I realised a couple of months back that his vids are usually short but for some reason it feels like it's 19 mins long, maybe because he's talking a mile a minute.
I tried during a lunch break I fucked it big time, I hate drawing in public I get embarrassed, I'm sure if I drew this again at home alone it would look better
>>7949316 > hate drawing in public I get embarrassed
If i'm in public sitting down with nothing to do that's the only thing I'm doing. No one really cares or know your art level and most people draw like this dude so any normie would be impressed by that, nothing to be embarrassed about, no shame in improving.
it takes strength to put yourself out there, but when you do your luck increases dramatically, and if he actually listens to one of the people providing him feed back he would gain more, but he's not which is why I have no qualms making fun of the guy.
>>7949340 he genuinely sounds really sad and frustrated that he's not making much progress. though he sounds like a nice guy and I am really happy for him pushing on but I just can't watch.
>>7949401 he's had the same demeanor and manner of speech for 2+ years all while saying the same shit. he genuinely believes in progression through mindless brute force
>>7949764 >through mindless brute force thats not whats happening. brute force would be drawing for hours a day till you cant concentrate anymore. this is limpwristed
>>7951746 marc's course is incredibly dull and poorly structured, but this guy also sounds like a NGMI and hasn't posted in 2 months after drawabox murdered him.
>>7951746 >That self portrait at the end I don't know what it is about that type of art "style" that immediately screams ngmi, I can't really pinpoint exactly what it is about it but you just know they are destined for permabeg status. All permabegs on this board have that style.
>>7955415 His problem is that he doesn't draw consistently, he's too hung up over "getting things right" that he's not allowing himself to fail (so he can learn from it), he's not drawing anything he wants to draw, and he's actively avoiding the "boring" parts of learning how to draw.
His self portrait looks straight out of the "Before" examples in Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain.
>>7955415 >that type of art "style" that immediately screams ngmi It's literally symbol drawing. Half circle for the face, open slits for the eyes. No awareness of form whatsoever. Everyone that makes it out of beg has some indication that they understand what they're drawing is 3d from the very beginning even if it's ugly.
>>7955487 >>7955514 Yes this is true, but we all symbol drew when we started I suppose. Maybe it's the fact that they post their symbol drawings online and in public unironically is what guarantees the permabeg status. Maybe it just shows a severe lack of awareness of their own art.
>>7955415 I started out drawing like that for whatever reason but gave that up pretty fast, its just symbol drawing beg shit. its too rigid of a way to learn and thats why they get stuck there.
>>7955877 Something permabegs don't understand, and apparently have no ability to, is that you're not drawing guidelines to draw a face. You're drawing a face and the guidelines are there to help you keep track of proportions. So in addition to observation issues, and the inability to apply techniques in new situations, what they are able to draw ends up being a mess of compounding issues stemming from their guidelines and a formulaic placement of features
>>7958098 Well the point of the image is that they obviously hired him because he's a yes-man who will do a thousand different jobs for them for no extra pay.
>>7958452 Yeah but that usually comes after you get hired. Usually jobs hire you for one thing, then silently add more jobs for no extra pay as "we have to wear many hats (tm)". Usually if you get hired for a concept artist wouldn't a portfolio or some proof of ability be shown/tested? t. wageslave SWEcel job hop maximoozer.