You can find nice cap and ball revolvers on auction sites (not boomer broker). Start with something in .44, Pyrodex Pistol powder is fine, but requires lots of cleanup. I have black powder too but I am saving it because it's sold out almost everwhere.

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I use 30 grains out of my walker reproduction but have to back the ball with several felt wads, you have to compress the powder. Used to be you could get caps at academy either #10 or #11s, check any non-tactical LGS.

Don't bother with cartridge conversion, don't EVER with a brass frame.

>>64792407
>don't EVER with a brass frame
this anon is giving you good advice. they will shoot themselves loose very quickly compared to steel frame guns.

>>64792361
Pietta 1858
>Cheap
>"Modern" manual of arms
>Removable cylinders
>Multiple cartridge conversion options
>No cap jams

Or the uberti in the original .36 (or .38spl factory conversion) for a more dimensionally accurate gun.

>>64792384
Grafs is the source for black powder. They have a “no hazmat fee” weekend about once a quarter. Order then and order in bulk.

>>64792414
Last place I bought from was Buffalo reloading, got 6 pounds of Swiss FFFg.

Get a repro. They're cheap-ish and plentiful

Are you an experienced handloader (of cartridge firearms) already? Have you handloaded black powder loads into the (cartridge) guns you already have?

If the answer to both of these is "no", then black powder is not for you.

>>64792439
reloading is more complicated than black powder. a cap and ball revolver comes with its own “reloading press” built in.

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>>64792384
>on auction sites (not boomer broker)
Suggestions? I see a lot of black powder sections on auction sites I peruse but I'm sure there are some other good ones considering no FFL affiliation required.
>>64792402
I've worked at a few outdoors/shooting places, so getting the materials isn't a hurdle. Pretty familiar with the supply reality side of things.
>>64792407
>>64792411
I'm not going to be shooting a whole lot; is that a reasonable concern?
>>64792413
Good intel.
>>64792439
I like trying new things. As I stated in the OP, I don't reload.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

>>64792559
If you don't have the aptitude or desire for handloading smokeless guns already, then black powder will likely just be a massive annoyance at worst and a slight novelty at best.

>>64792559
>Buy pyrodex p
>Load 24-48gr of powder as marked on spout of powder flask by volume/powder measure
>Buy .454 (or .457) Hornady ball for .44 caliber, or size that shaves lead when seated
>Seat ball directly on powder
>Ignore all boomerism about corn starch, lubed patches, or cylinder grease because you don't have a void to cause overpressure or blow by from an undersized ball to cause chain fires or excessive fowling because bp substitute
>Windex your barrel, cylinder, and frame face/forcing cone to neutralize corrosive salts then clean as any other handgun
>You now know everything there is to know about shooting black powder revolvers

>>64792559
Hibid and proxibid, though do check the auctions to see if they ship without FFL, some are dicks because of the potential for cartridge conversion. A lot of boomers bought cap and ball revolvers and never fired them.
>>64792559
>I'm not going to be shooting a whole lot; is that a reasonable concern?
Its fine just keep it clean and dry, low humidity if loaded.
>>64792626
Black powder has always been a novelty, it's what you do if you have done everything else shooting wise that your income has allowed, shooting wise.

>>64792626
>aptitude or desire
I don't shoot enough to rationalize reloading. I find shooting pretty boring and sterile as it is; the entire point is getting dirty, the smoke, the heat. That's why I'm interested in cap and ball.

Not to judge but you sound like one of those guys that has a 800$ tackle but won't gut a fish, or drives to get firewood for your campsite. I know I'm being harsh but I've met too many of those types.

>>64792651
>48gr of powder as marked on spout of powder flask by volume/powder measure
Don't do this in anything smaller than a dragoon sized steel frame.

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>>64792656
>I don't shoot enough to rationalize reloading
The majority of those who reload don't do it because they shoot a lot and want to save money, they do it because it's a way of developing a more intimate relationship with your gun and creating novelty loads that can't be bought in a store... like black powder loads for your smokeless gun.

Instead of dropping $500+ on a black powder gun and setup, consider $100 for pic related to load for the gun you already have.

>>64792676
>LEE loader
As someone who owns 2 of these don't ever fucking buy one. Get a hand press MINIMUM and a set of dies.

>>64792682
OP said he has never done reloading. This is the cheapest option for determining if he is capable or intelligent enough to handle it.

>>64792691
Dude, cap and ball vs modern handloading are two different animals, the former is significantly easier.

>>64792668
If it seats it shoots anon. At the worst you just are wasting powder for more fireball. Outside of traditions trash no company even makes brass framed bubba specials anymore. You can cram over 60gr of powder into a walker or dragoon, 48 is a medium load for those.

>>64792718
>You can cram over 60gr of powder into a walker or dragoon, 48 is a medium load for those
This was my point, but there are a TON of brass frames out there still being made and bought. Definitely don't want to push past 30 grains in those. I'll even shoot 12-15 grains out of my .36 cals.

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>>64792654
>Hibid and proxibid
Thank you.
>>64792676
Again; I find modern firearms and shooting them boring. I don't shoot recreationally at all, and for hunting I prefer small game and a bow and arrow, just to give you an idea of what I enjoy personally. Not poo-pooing those who like the power fantasy thing but it's not for me.
The historical aspect is also really interesting to me. E.g., I'd much rather hunt with a lever gun than an AR.

>if he is capable or intelligent enough to handle it.
Lmao. This was my earlier point. If an 'uneducated' draftee in the civil war or a peasant sailor can manage I'm pretty sure I can handle it. I already do /quote/ difficult /unquote/ things like mycology/foraging, skills that were once considered basic.

I need to get some spaghetti cowboy guns before inflation tricks me into thinking they are too expensive.

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>>64792763

>>64792732
A brass traditions 1858 is 30 more dollars than a pietta steel frame 1858 now. Strange times

>>64792767
Look at yellow metal and copper prices, at this rate melting your own .454 round balls might be the way.

Make sure you have the correct size caps for your pistol. I used a size too big and after use they would fall off of the nipple and jam up the hammer. Use pyrodex FFF to help stop corrosion. If you use a lube, use something kind of solid. I used some stuff from a tube and it was too liquid and makes a mess. Too much powder with a round ball may actually hurt accuracy because the rifling grooves don't grab the ball properly.

>>64792651
>>64793123
Thanks anons.

>>64793123
Pyrodex is just as corrosive as BP with the bonus of being harder to clean.

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One of my fur trade buddies built this blanket/canoe gun from a northwest trade gun kit. He machined the barrel breech plug and built the stock. And I must say he chose some perfect curly maple.

>>64792361
Why do you keep posting this thread every couple weeks?

>>64796272
Shut the fuck up

>>64795629
Very cool.
>>64796272
I almost never post on /k/. Mostly because of the insufferable dehumanizing pro-Ukrainian propaganda spam and hyperactive mods.
A lot of you seem to have personal issues with black powder but I'm savvy enough to see that for what it is; a personal issue.

>>64792361
>Hot take
Topstrapless is ugly.

>>64792732
I regularly send 30 gr. of triple 7 with a 200gr conical and 32gr with round ball through my brass frame 1858, it handles it perfectly fine.

>>64798092
Thats fine anon, you're just shooting the equivalent of +P loads through a gun not engineered for them. I'm not saying you can't, I just dont like to abuse my guns unnecessarily, especially wop-made brass frame guns.

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>>64798136
It's like edging myself to see if I'm gonna lose a digit today

>>64792744
>that picrel

Wut

Also I'm in the same boat honestly. I've started getting into flintlocks and even built one. I've shot that 10-20 times in the couple of months I've had it vs my modern ~black~ rifle which I've had for years and have only taken out 6 times. The process is just so much more fun and satisfying

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>>64798201
It's a 2,000 year old Peruvian warrior skull with a metal implant, apparently the guy suffered a massive cranial fracture and they patched it and he survived; the bone managed to regrow around it.
And of course, 'academics' see this and insist this is the first time such a thing ever happened because it's the earliest example we have. Meanwhile the next time in recorded history we managed to do this successfully was in 1965 using a titanium alloy.
Our ancestors were far more advanced and innovative than most people are comfortable believing.

>>64798270
>Our ancestors were far more advanced and innovative than most people are comfortable believing
And pragmatic imo, but that isn't as sexy as ritual I guess.

Anywho if you're into traditional archery and depending on your cunt I'd give flintlock a shot. Its impressive what you can manage with a well made one once you learn them. Different type of shooting and most people that see it at the range are blown away at the groups you can get with 'primitive' stuff

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>>64798332
>flintlock
I was wondering about this. Seems a bit more expensive to get into going the replica route compared to cap and ball but I'm a big sucker for the Napoleonic/colonial eras. I'll keep it in mind, thanks anon.

>>64792361
Opt for a Remington New Model Army copy, I like Colt’s but the Remingtons are the most intuitive to someone used to conventional modern firearms. They are also easier to take apart.

As other anons said, avoid brass frames.

>>64792744
You sound like a cool dude.

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>>64798270

>>64793123
>Make sure you have the correct size caps for your pistol
Back when #10 caps were impossible to get and all you could buy were overpriced #11s, I whipped up a little tool so I could resize my caps.
>drill 4mm hole in 1'' thick piece of wood
>bevel one end so the entrance slopes inward
>put a pin punch into a drill press
>set a cap in the beveled entrance, gently press it through
>falls out the other side a #10
Comes out perfectly shaped and fits perfectly snug. In a few minutes I could turn an entire can of #11s into #10s. Way better than pinching caps. Even now that #10s are available again I'll probably go back to resizing #11s, because I like how mine fit better anyway.

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>>64798564
>Our ancestors were far more advanced and innovative than most people are comfortable believing

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>>64798393
Id recommend a 62cal fusil de Chasse smoothbore. If you want lighter go with a fowler piece. Smoothbores were the most common amongst milita and woodsman.

>>64800469
The kits look pretty practical and affordable. Do I need a tap drill/lathe and/or forge to finish one?

>>64798270
>academics insist this is the first time it's ever happened
No they don't. As the earliest known example, they insist it's the first time it was done that we know of. A distinction that is often misconstrued by ignorants as definitive rather than speculative. A big part of studying finds like these goes into using context clues to determine the providence of irregularities in the archeaological record like that. The antikythera mechanism is a good example of this because it's well studies and documented. It's the earliest known artifact of it's kind, but based on study it's understood that such mechanisms were somewhat commonplace and were being made well before the example found was

>>64798201
>the process
definitely makes each shot feel more… deliberate. i really enjoy it. it’s also kind of meditative and satisfyingly fiddly, kind of like how I’ve hears pipe smokers describe their hobby/vice.

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>>64803236
>they insist it's the first time it was done that we know of
You're completely missing the point and the nuance of this specific situation. If medicine was so advanced in the first century BC in mesoamerica that skull surgery was anything other than an isolated and chance one-off event, the entire narrative around ancient cultures in the Paracas region would be completely different. Yet findings like the warrior skull have 0 influence on the narrative around this culture.
>ignorants
If you were familiar at all with the academic view on the Paracas, you'd know they defined them as a 'cultural hegemony' e.g., a society that has not enforced its cultural domain by any means other than exchange of cultural artifacts and traditions. In other words, this civilization didn't exercise power through a military, infrastructure, language, belief, blood, etc. This reflects an extremely backwards cultural identity which is wholly incapable of communicating and diffusing medical knowledge in any meaningful capacity.
Academia has absolutely prevented any degree of logical speculation arising from objects like the warrior skull from influencing the Paracas' cultural history. That's denial of any broader capability the culture obviously had.
You can extend this to many other facets of their culture; the water management techniques, textiles, imperial influence, body modification, etc. They strictly say this was a casteless society yet the only academic explanations for body modification are based on caste.
With all due respect, you should refrain from talking down to people especially when you are unaware of the "context clues."

>>64803283
You're still assigning blame based on your own interpritation of the situation. It's a "This is what we definitely know to be true" versus what might be true and you're leaning HARD into what might be true, possibly because you're that poster that's obsessed with mesoamerica, idk

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>>64803309
>assigning blame
Misconstruing history is definitely a choice. Again, we didn't achieve anything remotely close to what they achieved until 1965. That's absolutely something that should compel fascination by academia but it's 100% ignored.
> you're that poster
Please refrain from projecting your drama when I'm trying to make a simple point in good faith. Would you prefer I talk about the fact the Old Dynasty Egyptians were performing surgery on individual nerve fibers in the spine around 300BC?
Again:
>Our ancestors were far more advanced and innovative than most people are comfortable believing.

any recs for cartridge converted replica revolvers? or maybe some old revolvers that can be easily converted by myself? i just dont wanna go through the trouble of loading everytime but love the look of old western guns

>>64803424
Pietta Remington 1858

>>64803424
>>64803448
https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/1858-new-army-45-lc-8-in-barrel.html

>>64803490
note that this is a purpose-built conversion (a replica of how Remington did their factory conversions / purpose-built guns built from leftover cap-and-ball parts) as opposed to being a c-n-b gun with a drop-in cartridge-holding replacement cylinder

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Bought a used gun. Wicked sticky spot halfway down the bore. After 3 shots I'm pounding the fuck out of the ball to get to go down. I was told to put steel wool into a slit cut in a 3/8" dowel and run it up and down the bore using a cordless drill. Pray for my bore lads.
>>64795629
Looks beautiful. Needs some tacks IMO. I want a northwest trade gun but I refuse to buy a patten breach pedersoli and I don't have the time to build one. Here's one I saw at an event.

>>64803424
You've got all kinds of options anon. I recommend Kirst for the actual conversion parts.
>>64803448 is a good idea for what to start with, but there's just something about a Walker repo shooting cartridges.

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Neat I have a reason to post in this general now
I just got an 1816 Springfield flintlock in great shape. I have a can of 3F pyrodex that i've heard is fine to prime the pan but that I should use 2f for the actual charge.
Im new to blackpowder, but not new at all to reloading as I reload multiple milsurp cartridges. Any advise on the tolerances and loads would be appreciated. Even just shoving a small charge down with a paper patch just for fun, loud noise and smoke as practice before I start using .69 balls. Appreciate any info

>>64803205
Depends who you go through. I went through Middlesex Village who tests them out. But they took about a year to finally ship. Military Heritage and Veteran Arms ship them without the touch hole for international shipping. But all you need is an 1/8inch drill bit to put in your touch hole right above the pan.

>>64803512
I want to add a few tacks, or an inlet of something.

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Pretty much have my homemade black powder down.
>toilet paper charcoal cooked in a paint can
>blended into powder, then mixed with nitrate and sulfur
>sealed into a homemade PVC container and rolled with lead and brass balls for 24 hours in a Harbor Freight rock tumbler
>slightly wet and compressed in a shop press
>dried for three days, then ground up with a hand-cranked grain grinder
>poured through a size 20 and size 50 sieves
>anything caught in the size 20 sieve goes back into the grinder
>result: 6 oz of fff homemade black powder, better than most existing brands
Almost perfect. I want to get more efficient with the grinding process and compress the next batch a little less. Other than that, it's perfect and absolutely worth it. Lots of troubleshooting, but once you have it figured it it's mostly hands-off. I do probably 20 minutes of actual work throughout the whole process and can stockpile as much as I want for 5% the cost of buying commercial.

>>64806209
Based

>>64806209
Highly based but please be careful anon.
I'm curious how effective the graphite stabilizers are in commercial powder.
Would you be willing to leave a small amount of your homemade powder and commercial powder in the sun in a safe place and see if they spontaneously combust?

>>64805521
Dudes where charging those with 82 grains back in the day. Reduce to 70 grains when using 3F and you'll be fine (if the gun wasn't made by jeets). Any modern markings on the gun?
Some more competitive flitlockers prefer to prime with 4F but you can burn through your 3F first.
Get a steel range rod, ball puller, cleaning jag, brush, cleaning and shooting patches and go to town.

>>64805521
You heard backwards. BP substitutes like Pyrodex or 777 do not do well in flintlock pans. Use the real thing for priming at least. The main charge can be Pyrodex if necessary. I use 3F BP for both priming and charging (2F for big bores) my flintlocks. As far as loads, most military muskets like yours were fired with generous loads of BP. Usually over 100 grains. Part of that charge went into the pan for priming, but like another anon said, as long as your musket is made by a reputable manufacturer, I wouldn’t have any qualms about starting with 70gr and moving up from there as necessary.

>>64792407
>Don't bother with cartridge conversion
i wanna buy a cartridge converted Lematt as a personal defence weapon, tell me how big of a retard I am

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>>64809093

>>64806209
fucking based, i used to make my powder but it was shit. Next step is making the caps.

>>64792411
>they will shoot themselves loose very quickly

Depends on powder charge. Keep at 20gr. max and you got a plinker you can hand off to grandchildren.

>>64792413
>(or .38spl factory conversion)

Downside is bullet diameter. Original .36" caliber is .375" so heeled bullet reload in that size in .38 Spl case or hot loaded hollow-base .355" wadcutters. Will expand to engage rifling. You can also get barrel lined with .355" rifled insert.

>>64809327
yeah, thats literally me. any further comments?

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>>64803424
>any recs

Basically Pietta or Uberti for current production with easy to find conversion kits. For that, Howell or Kirst, both good. Drop-in type is least work. Adding a loading gate requires frame mod. Remington 1858 Army pattern easiest to reload if drop-in cylinder (see Pale Rider movie). Also stronger than Colt patterns because of top strap over cylinder. Quality between Pietta & Uberti vary, depends on when either made. Issues are crunchy trigger, more tool marks, etc. Trigger issues may self-correct with use. Both are good pieces, buy on price & condition.

>>64809415
Uberti makes one that is purpose-built for .38 Sp see >>64803490
>>64803497

>>64809566
>Uberti makes one that is purpose-built for .38 Sp

That's a regular firearm that ships to an FFL. It's not a black powder mail-order item.

>>64807365
I've been using black powder for a while now and even the very seasoned gun owners I know act like it's some kind of highly dangerous voodoo they're reluctant to touch. My grandfather's like that, despite having grown up playing with guns since he could walk and tossing dynamite into lakes and stuff. All shit I wouldn't do if you forced me to, but I've been more nervous using a Lee Loader than making powder.
I think the ignition point of black powder is around 400 to 450, but anything above 300 degrees is a danger zone. I don't think there's any risk from sunlight ignoring it unless you're really dangermaxxing and contriving up the circumstances for shits and giggles. I'd be willing to test it out over summer, though.

>>64806209
Did you buy a die for picking it or did you come up with a more easy method?

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Shot my Pietta for the first time in a while after seeing this thread.

>>64810408
I didn't have a shop press at first, so I planned on making one out of a car jack and some steel plates that'd been mistakenly marked in the system as $0.20 each at Home Depot. For that, I got a pipe coupling and gave somebody I know some of the extra steel to make two discs for pressing. It was too hard to get that sized perfectly, so I ordered steel discs and it still wasn't good enough. By that time I already had an actual press, so I just bit the bullet and bought a Dabpress die, the same one I saw a guy on YouTube use. Cost about $40 and works great. I got lucky, because that part of the process would be a lot less fun if I'd successfully cheaped out on it like I'd planned to.

>>64810362
>I don't think there's any risk from sunlight ignoring it unless you're really dangermaxxing and contriving up the circumstances for shits and giggles.
I was just trying to find a safe way to generate some comparisons between commercial BP with stabilizers and the real traditional stuff you're making.
A friction test would be probably be better. Maybe small amounts of BP inside a corked vial attached to a vibrator would yield more meaningful results over just leaving it in the sun?
Not trying to shit on you for making BP or be a be a safety sally deathly afraid of BP. I'm just curious as to the margin of safety. People did carry traditional BP on horseback in hot weather for hundred of years after all.

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>>64807411
>>64809079
I see. So I should rather use the 3f Pyrodex at 70 grains for the main charge. Would it matter for a lower charge of pyrodex,say 50-60grains. Both as a test with just a paper patch, and then eventual with .69 ball?
and then, 2f BP for priming and eventual charge
When it comes to the pan is there a recommended amount or is it literally just a little dab/eyeballing it?

>>64811306
>So I should rather use the 3f Pyrodex at 70 grains for the main charge.
Yes. Finer powder burn faster.
>Would it matter for a lower charge of pyrodex,say 50-60grains. Both as a test with just a paper patch, and then eventual with .69 ball?
Shouldn't be a problem.
>2f BP for priming and eventual charge
When it comes to the pan is there a recommended amount or is it literally just a little dab/eyeballing it?
2F isn't great for priming but I don't own a flintlock. If you want one powder for both use 3F and down load your powder charge a bit. Otherwise use 4F for priming and full charge of 2F.

>>64811306
the rule of thumb when it comes to charging a musket with modern powder is whatever the caliber is, so should the charge be.

Basically a 45cal use 45 grains of powder 50 caliber, 50 grains, 75 caliber, 75 grains. And so on. If you are using a pistol, use a half charge.

>>64811306
I just eyeball it. Try to get it to flash with as little powder as possible, then once you find that amount, add a little more to be sure. Then just eyeball that amount every time.
>.69 ball
Unlike a cap-and-ball revolver, your 1816 would never really have been fired with a bare ball of the same caliber as the arm itself. The ball would have been undersized with the crumpled paper cartridge, and for later shots black powder soot, helping hold it in the barrel.
Firing smoothbores with patched round balls is fine, I do it, but historically that was a rifle thing only. In any case, the ball itself would have been less than .69 caliber.
Military muskets were loaded with paper cartridges (fairly easy to make desu, look up on the tube). Civilian smoothbores were loaded with a ball held in place by tow (raw linen). Of course you can do what you want and I’m sure there was probably some unrecorded one-offs of people using patched round balls in their smoothbores. It just isn’t well documented.

>>64805760
Middlesex village trading Co is for all intents and purposes not operational but will still take your money for their 9 years of backorder tinkering before you get your Indian made gun.
>1 man operation
>Had like 3 heart attacks
>"In stock" means available him to part together
>Like 600 people waiting in their shit in the available wait-list
>Stopped updating wait-list because people who paid him money kept asking why their orders aren't being worked on

He's not even the only middleman merchant for these guns and doesn't even drill touchholes, but apparently has to do days of work on each one. Which begs the question how fucked they are from those other retailers in the US and Canada or if he's just a boomer bubba retard.

>>64811306
Don't shoot full .69 ball
Undersize the ball slightly and shoot it with a .015" thick lubed patch to start. Adjust from there. You can find some ideas for ball/patch size combinations for your caliber on the muzzleloader forums but ultimately you'll be the judge of what's best for your gun. Take note if the suggestion is for smooth or rifled bore to match your gun.
For example I'm shooting a .45 caliber caplock rifle with;
>.440 round ball
>015" pillow ticking patch with wonder lube
>50-70 grains of 3F

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I just bought a new longbow to sate myself until I'm ready to commit. Flintlock sounds like a lot of fun and more inline with my interests.

>>64810894
Im going through basically the same process. Bottle jack just got so fiddly. As for the die though I just need to not be lazy and turn a proper one on whichever of the several lathes we have I guess. The die is a pretty close sliding fit?

>>64811360
>When it comes to the pan is there a recommended amount or is it literally just a little dab/eyeballing it?

It really is just eyeballing it, although generally speaking you don't want to fill your pan. Pretty much as little as you can get away with and away from the touch hole. Seems counterintuitive but if the priming powder is on/obscuring the touch hole your lock times will be stupid long

Also 2f is fine as a priming powder. I've used both 4f and 2f to prime and have had no issues.

>>64792361
Pietta. Steel Frame. .44 cal. Full length 7.75" barr'l. Pay the double money and buy a pound of TRIPLE SE7EN powder. Buy brand new Remington #10 caps. Ebay those little short pieces of black tubing to put around the caps.
Buy Guns of the West All Natural Bullet lube and put up with having to melt a little bit in the can-lid and then pour it over the loaded balls.
You'd be smart to pour some over each cap nipple before capping for storage. Congrats now you can store it at the bottom of a swimming pool or under the seat of a truck for a couple years and it WILL fire. The reason the Colts had no top strap was to let cap fragments blow straight up out of the gun. Old timers turned them back upside down over their shoulders THEN thumbed the hammer back.
You can carry both Colts '51s and '60s, and Rem. '58s totally loaded and hammer between nipples. UNLIKE 1873 Cowboy cartridge Colts.
When done firing you'll have to dunk the whole thing in a sink of water and scrub out the bore with a bottle brush, Rinse it an set in electric oven set 200-250 no more for a good hour. Spray down heavily with Ballistol when dry and hot. If you never want to have to heavy scrub with a bronze bore brush get a dollars worth of Molybdenum disulfide powder ground 1-2 microns and mix it in a little melted all natural lube and swab it up and down the barrel and get the forcing cone too (before Ballistol)
I'm an open-top Colt guy. Dumbasses say they are not strong = bullshit. Worst thing about them is their hammers have a groove right down the face of them. As made there is a little burr there and the soft copper cap-metal can "flow" up into it and often the cap will hitch a ride on the hammer when you cock it. Basically you glue some 400 sandpaper onto a like a box cutter blade and sand the crevice out (seriously) a half-a-human hair wider on each side, And each bevel up in the slot no more than four hairs deep. Rub some of your molybdenum grease up in there good then wipe it all away

>>64792361
(Continued)all things considered The 1858 Remington is going to be less fuss. With Colts you have to hammer their barrel wedges out to clean the fat pin the cylinder turns on. That is why I said to use Triple 777 - clean up a breeze and very little smoke. Dont worry about powder charges fill the damn chamber and level it. Smash a ball in there so it doesn't stick up and hang on the barrel = gold. You will have several choices of ball diameters just make it easy on yourself and caliper the cylinder and go .001" oversize. You have to grease it anyways so lead doesnt get all in the rifling anyways - so it will prevent chain fires, too. I don't know which caps on a Pietta '58. But like I said grease SIDES (not the end) of the nipples to0 - and you will never have a chainfire.
The Remington looks more modern and if you find yourself sticking it up some prick's left nostril and then cocking it - even the dumbest nigger will not think it's a toy.
Later when you get this all down to an easy routine - we'll switch you up to some 180 grain -for-real slugs and go into measuring out a teensy bit of SMOKELESS on top of the 777 - and enjoy your New Mankiller that "isn't a firearm", lol.

>>64792361
If you think shooting is "boring" you must be a range-ey City Boy. Not as big a put down as it sounds. But fuck all of that and just take tour muzzle loader some placethere might be some pests like wild dogs, cats, nutria, niggers(just kiddin) but something fun to shoot at eve if only a junk car or some shit. The whole idea is TO GET THE FUCK AWAY from other people and their bullshit. Stand up straight, load up your gun, stick it in your belt in the small of your back and just BE YOURSELF for a half-a-day, anyway. Young fellow without sounding like a faggot I can't tell you what The Missouri River has done for me over the last 70 years. And every time I visited her I had a charcoal burner (or two) tucked in my britches. BTW: Try and buy shit from Midway if you can = they deserve it.

>>64810544
Good on you!
Looks like you are out in the sticks somewhere =
TWIDE AS GOOD !!!

Who else enjoys shooting "from the bag" ?
>real power horn
>belt pouch with lubed patches and ball
>small possibles bag with your mid shoot cleaning supplies and just in case stuff
It's so simple. Hauling around and loading from some wooden box on a table just isn't as fun.
Take the woodswalker pill.

>>64815258
he’s right you know
>morganfreeman.jpg

>>64792439
>Are you an experienced handloader (of cartridge firearms) already? Have you handloaded black powder loads into the (cartridge) guns you already have?
>If the answer to both of these is "no", then black powder is not for you.

Reddit NPC response, kys faggot

>>64814432
The Dabpress die is good. Everything fits snugly. It's small, but it works for me. It's also not $200.
https://www.dabpress.com/products/pollen-hash-kief-press

>>64798564
I bet they paid more for that guys suit that for him to be there

>>64815258
>>64815328
Any recs on traditional bags for flintlock? I got some material to make one but have yet to do so. Woods walking is the best way to enjoy

>>64816927
Make a Lyman pouch for your belt and a "beaver tail" possibles bag.
I'll post photos of mine later.

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This is why I was saying that I wanted to compress my homemade powder less here: >>64806209
Whenever I test it out I notice these trails exploding out in every direction. I guess that means the grains are so dense they're burning slowly? Before compression you just get the usual splotch you see with every other powder, so that's apparently the difference.

>>64818250
Seems to be the case ya. Apparently swiss is compressed to ~1.7g/cm3 or something. How much is yours compressed to, do you glaze it at all?

>>64816927
honestly I just go on one of those facebook groups for reenactors and see what’s for sale. that’s where i got my bag and horn and I’m pretty happy with them.

>>64817347
>>64819140
Thanks anons I'll do that

Why are .44 1851 navy revolvers so popular?

>>64821273
Most BP kinetic energy in smallest package.
Sure a Walker or Dragoon hold more powder and has a longer barrel (behind same bullet) But they are Saddle Guns not Belt Pistols.
And IN MY OPINION anything less than a .44 ball with 30-35 grains of powder and 7.5 barrel is a TARGET PISTOL not a Defensive Tool.

>>64821647
Using kinetic energy as the compare and contrast metric doesn't really work here. Or on pistols in general. In my own retarded way let me explain why.
Kinetic energy isn't very much. Especially here. It is less than a hard punch to the shoulder from a dickhead drinking buddy. Kinetic energy here is the thing involved in a bunch of black magic during impact and initial impact resistance and stretch. Kinetic energy changes and transfers.
Momentum in this case for a comparison metric is much better to me. Momentum is the freight train that is the led ball or conical. Momentum is how much resistance, matter can be overcome in travel. Momentum is a better predictor for depth of penn. Energy is a better predictor for how a bullet should be built for it to expand enough to keep it inside the body. Or, energy is a better predictor for how to build a bullet knowing how much momentum there is and how much friction is needed to be added to stop it in a certain distance.
Momentum.

>>64821647
What about the 1860 army? Why isn't it as popular? Pietta makes them with navy grips and the same barrel lengths.

>>64821694
Please to look up Taylor Knock Down Power from back when 2 and 4 -bore Elephant Stopping Rifles were a thing. Momentum X Ball/Bullet area was a pretty fair predictor of how much time you had to go up and kill the thing before it woke up. But as the 20th Century dawned and went on even Taylor surmised that Kinetic Energy correlated best with lethal results on what size animals. You need to read about the Phillipines War wherein 400 American soldiers lost their life to Moro Muslim Suicide-Hackers - because Army-issue .38 Long Colt didn't work against men who had sworn to kill as many as possible, had tied off their arteries, wore flame-hardened bamboo body armor and took local narcotics negating pain and amping adrenalin. Black Jack Pershing the Best White Man Of All Time put in an emergency supply order back to the US for 1873 Cowboy Pistols in .45 Long Colt caliber and THAT settled their hash. Not long after the Army figured out all the advantages of Browning Semi Auto Pistols and they did extensive tests on hanging human corpses and live Cattle and Hogs at the Chicago Stockyards.
The Colt .38 Super cartridge was the OG caliber for Modell 1911 automatic pistol but Army insisted it be .45 caliber so .45 Automatic was born. The .357 Magnum was "stretched .38 special" invented in about 1935.
The results of all this is: If you want somebody dead-for-real you shoot them with a .45 where "half the bullet weight times the velocity squared" = 350 foot pounds or above.
You can get exactly the same effect with a 9mm/38 cal where "half weight times muzzle speed = 550 foot pounds provided hollow point bullets are used.. The extra energy is to make 95% sure the bullet expands.
Hope that clears it up for you. .36 black powder is a TARGET PISTOL ,not a defensive tool. Same with a .44 black powder pistol with anything less than a full-level-chamber of BP and the ball rammed down flush firing out of a full-length barrel <<< TOY.

>>64821856
Yeah I love me some Pietta1860 Armys. DAMN good well made guns. On ebay they sell a LOT of parts for the things and especially the ones made since 2022 the part-interchangeability IS PERFECT. Man somebody had a 12" 1851 barrel (take off their shoulder-stocked "carbine") and I wanted it just for the No-Fuss Magnum Velocity it would give. I just want you young guys to be fully informed of how guns - especially black powder weapons - are going to do stopping a Machete attack. Don't be this cuck.
https://old.bitchute.com/video/sPW92mCUnxHg/

>>64823269
Taylor used the knockdown calculation during the days of modern rifles and cartridges you fucking idiot. Considering I have read African rifles and cartridges by Taylor so many times it's falling apart, along with Bells books, and those by doctari Robertson and those about Harry selby as many times I suggest you stop talking out your ass.
I'll clear it up for you. Bigger hole, better. Deeper hole, better. Jagged hole, better than smooth hole.
Energy numbers don't mean shit until you surpass the threshold of human tissues in a meaningful way. As bob forker the literal rocket scientist who wrote ammo and ballistics said, if it was as simple as energy numbers tell you what kills you then every receiver in the NFL would be dead. BP pistols are very lethal and viable. You think men are tougher now than in the civil war? Lol. A .36 or .44 BP pistol will drop a guy just fine. A round ball or conical or a flat nose isn't any different to the body than an fmj. Considering they are moving along at near the same speeds as some modern pistol bullets 800fps, your comment is fucking retarded.

>>64823269
To further nail home how much nobody should listen to anything you say because you are a misleading fucking idiot, Taylor's book was published in 1948. The tko factor is STILL used by those choosing a big game rifle with absolute success. It's even crossed over to use in comparing pistols because it is a better predictor of performance as dg rifle terminal ballistics in tough dg and pistol terminal ballistics in humans is very similar. There are outliers but generally speaking you are doing the same job.
It's nothing like hunting deer with a 7mm rm soft point and the energy levels do translate on transfer and turn the lead shoulder into chunky soup.

>>64821273
Because they are kino. I wish the Italians would make one with a regular navy cylinder and barrel bored out to .44.

>>64823269
.38longcolt had less kinetic energy than .38s&w but it's actual problem was it was a swaged bullet but the entire rifling contact surface was in the case and undersized for the bore. They were inaccurate, they didn't not kill 4ft tall Islanders in bamboo armor.

This is fuddlore exactly like .30 carbine bouncing off chink winter coats (because pvt cletus didn't realize his rifle had 57" of drop at 300 yards)

I want a big fuckin 8" barrel stupid ass BP revolver with a removable stock and some other stemapunk bullshit. Maybe lyman ladder sights or something.
Just to make smoke and noise with on the 4th with wadding shots.

>>64825665
wait... can I put like a big ass .50 cal tank lookin muzzle brake on that?

>>64806209
Is the toilet paper a deliberate material properties choice for charcoal or just something you do for convenience?

>>64825489
They basically did that with Dance revolvers. Excellent balance.

>>64792413
Seconded.
I own one myself and have been quite happy with it. Replacement parts and extra cylinders are easy to come by and if you get the steel frame ones (always get the steel frame bp guns, unless you're going for a confederate 1851 colt copy) you can load em' hotter and convert em to fire cartridges

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>>64792801
>Melting your own lead balls might be the way
Bought a single ball cast in .457 for around 25-30 bucks online and about 2-5lbs of lead for 5 bucks at my local thrift mall, using half of my lead made around 200-500 balls. Still chewing through that since bp is a bitch to clean thoroughly after a good 50-70 shot range day. Its worth the investment frens.

>>64825717
Bit of both. Convenience because it's quick and cheap to get, but it's also so naturally feathery that it integrates in the mill really well. Check out the Everything Black Powder video on toilet paper gunpowder. I used different woods back when I hadn't gotten my process down, so I'll try a batch with some willow chips again sometime now that I know what I'm doing. It'd be worth comparing to the toilet paper for myself.

>>64818349
The gauge on my press appears to be out of whack, so I've been guessing for now. I just compressed some more yesterday, so once it dries we'll see if I got closer this time.

>>64827333
Once I get a press I had planned to get consistent density by measuring mass going into the die then compressing it to a know volume. In this way you should be able to get a consistent density o would think

first flintlock is in the mail

I think I understand the other main parts of black powder but how tight should a ball and its patch be?

I bought a 69 cal smoothbore, I know the balls should be undersized, but how do you decide how undersized of a ball to use and how thick of a patch to use? For example, if I bought the .675 balls from track of the wolf and used the 0.010 cotton patches, that would hypothetically put me at 0.695 diameter for the load, even thicker with the thicker patch options like 0.018 pillow ticking.

I don't understand how tight the ball should be fitted to the barrel? Obviously it cant be too stupid tight that I cant even ram it down all the way, but I don't know if it should be just tight enough that the ball doesn't roll out and I can ram it down smoothly, or how tight it should be, i'd rather not accidentally make a pipe bomb

>>64827777
well I found the smaller .6xx" balls on track of the wolf which for some reason aren't in the .69 cal category

>>64827708
That was my plan, too, except for some reason when I compress 37 grams of powder into a 3Omm wide, 30mm tall cylinder, that's when I get those streaks in the test powder. I'm retarded with math, but I've run this through two different AIs and that's supposedly the level of compression I want. Maybe I'm wrong, but my gauge apparently being messed up just adds more guesswork into fine tuning than I'd like. I'll mark it on the die where I should be compressing to once I stop getting the streaks.
Granted, it works great in my revolvers, but I'd like to eventually work up to doing long distance shooting with my own powder, so I want to iron out the imperfections right now.

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>>64827777
Checked
Post a pic when it arrives

Does anybody make six shot gated cylinder conversions?

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>>64827777
the tighter the fit, the slower to load, but you get a better gas seal
the looser the fit, the faster to load, but you get a worse gas seal
on top of that general guideline, muzzleloaders are kind of picky eaters and you might just have to play around with different loads and see what combination of ball size, patch thickness, and powder charge works best in your gun.
happy shooting, anon.

>>64828259
yes. see >>64809566

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>>64815258
>>64816927
>>64817347
Sorry for procrastinating.
Here's my setup.
I need a proper strap for the powder horn but it works for now.

>>64825489
"...regular navy cylinder... bored out to .44"
"... barrel bord out to .44"

CLASS? CAN ANYONE TELL ME HOW TO PACK MORE STUPIDITY INTO ONE SENTENCE THAN THIS CHURLISH JACKASS JUST DID ?

>>64829483
Damn looks good anon, clean setup.

Never used a powder horn, I've been using those brass flasks. Horn seem any easier?

>>64831112
Never used a brass flask but having your powder hanging on your side is handy.
Traditionally they were worn at or above the elbow or almost in the armpit. Keeps the horn from flapping around when moving quickly. A lot of reenactors wear them around the belt line for comfort.
You can get them relatively cheap. I might get a second to protect my expensive skrimshaw horn from sun damage but it's just too cool not to wear.
Bag was $10 from another reenactor. Belt bag was $50 IIRC. Horn was $350

>>64829483
>>64831112

The horn is inscribed;

Courteous lady these lines I do present
Unto you to give your heart's consent
Not only this, but willingly would kneel
The first letter of each line, to feel

A real verse found on a horn dating to the 1780's.

>>64832203
Based, 250 yo joke

>uberti now bad
>pietta... le good!
This is apparently the latest from the SAA hive mind and fucking baffles me. I like my pietta 1858 but it's overdimensioned and the cheese soft cylinder hand I had to replace and retime after cylinder changing ground apart the original. It's main screw for the flat spring I've never gotten apart either even with penetrating oil and I almost suspect it's factory cross threaded. Did pietta git gud in the last ~7 years, did uberti cartridge guns shit the bed, or are all these internet bigwigs just getting different batches of lemons from the Italians and declaring their 1 working gun the better brand?

>>64835217
Armi San Marco, one of the early manufacturers, made an outstanding Walker clone. But later on their product quality went down. I heard that they would just give their guys piles of parts to hand fit together. I have a Pietta from a few years ago and its ok, I've always thought of Uberti being higher quality, I own a few as well.

>>64835217
>the better brand?
Some of us are less interested in brand loyalty than you and enjoy historical significance regardless of accrued good boy points for wearing nike versus underarmor bling.

>>64835403
Is this justasgood cope or just posting to post? What repro guns do you even own. Knowing if a brand has shit the bed when it is/was the gold standard is important. I've finger fucked uberti bp and own a few piettas and the ubertis were nicer, but not $250. Which for a toy justasgood was fine and it's held up with minor quirks and issues only justifiable by price point. If I ever invested more into bp revolvers or factory cartridge conversions uberti was the historically safe play.

>>64835484
Nobody is declaring anything is better than anything here besides you.
>you MUST tell me which team you're on
>you don't even lift
Take your manufactured drama where someone will care enough to contend your feelings.

>>64835762
>ESL who can't read or legitimate retarded
If you don't know, and have no dog in the fight as a noguns, if Uberti's quality control has gone down for SASS guys to be saying to not buy them then why have such a bee in your bonnet?

>>64835794
>justasgood
>esl
>noguns
>hive mind
You entered this thread angry about something you made up now you're throwing around more labels than a yard sale.
Relax. You don't need to generate emotional conflict at any opportunity.

>>64835822
>Absent: anything about uberti, pietta, or current state of blackpowder repro market
There aren't upboats on 4chan buddy, tone policing just makes you look like the faggot you are

>>64835865
>still angry over nothing
Ironic
Nobody said either brand is "better." The advantages to each are self evident and don't need explanation. Hence you being so emotional about the topic standing out among a very agreeable thread. You're throwing a hissy fit because people aren't interested in your brand loyalty 'debate.'

>>64835865
Christ man why are you so upset?

>>64835919
>Obstinate in still not being able to read
You don't know what SASS is do you. You've posted 5 times about muhbrandloyalty while not knowing anything about uberti, pietta, or having any insight into people outside of this thread recommending pietta over uberti out of the blue when the prevailing wisdom is both are good but uberti is better for more money. Now apparently uberti slipped or pietta got their shit together, which leads to the question of if that actually happened.

>>64835933
>Screeching at himself over his made up debate
Maybe people are starting to prefer a less expensive option because a.) people have less money in general and b.) firearms are more expensive in general.
Look at that. I resolved your entire mystery using 5 seconds of basic reasoning. Care to sip some tea and relax now?

>>64835947
>Cost optimization is clearly what these people want out of their race guns, that's why uberti is suddenly being slammed on build quality and design concerns. Just stop asking questions about new guns you want to buy sweetie ;^)
You actually don't know what SASS is in a historic firearms thread.

>>64835953
"Cost optimization" is unrelated to what I just said. Again, you're arguing with yourself.

>>64835217
Yes - they were terrible pieces of shit if you used them. Oiled and kept on display only.
Pietta since the late 90s has been pretty good and they spent a shit-ton-in 2022 and about any 1851 and 1860 part within reason will interchange with any other.

>>64836396
Good to know. I had briefly before returning it because Cabela's didn't consider it a "firearm" online, an 1858 carbine, which was neat as hell but stupid without the 24-36" barrel of the originals, but blueing seemed thin and it was almost getting a cylinder ring from dry handling. While working behind the counter I did notice once one of our uberti cattleman that had been heavily finger fucked had a fucked sear and the hammer could be dropped by pressing it. I'd been eyeing an uberti cimmeron factory cartridge conversion for a while but for $800 now it being a piece of shit would sting a lot. 5 shot cartridge cylinder for my pietta it is then.

>>64835217
>Did pietta git gud in the last ~7 years
yes
also around covid uberti went to cnc and laid of lots of experienced workers (dumb). Pietta went to cnc and kept/retrained the workers (smart)

>>64835217
Specifically, regarding SAAs, the Pietta versions are dimensionally more historically accurate. The Ubertis are kind of modernized (beefier cylinders, many don’t have the four click hammer anymore).

From Keith
>For its size and weight nothing is so deadly as the round ball of pure lead when driven at fairly good velocity. Maximum loads give these slugs fairly high velocity from a 7 1/2 inch barrel gun. Both Major R. E. Stratton and Samuel H. Fletcher told me the .36 Navy with full loads was a far better man killer than any .38 Special they had ever seen used in gun fights.
So directly from people who killed people with both, and from Keith himself on hunting, not only is cap and ball good for killing men, with a round ball it can be superior to some modern choices.

>>64792361
it's nowhere near as complicated as modern reloading. once upon a time this was a skill set that every officer and cavalryman had to know as part of their job, and those guys didn't have nice perfectly sized bullets or pre-cut patches or any of the other modern BP conveniences we do. just do a little reading and go have some fun

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>>64829483
Here is my horn and everything I carry inside my shooting bag. The flat horn and powder measurer next to it are for my smoothbore pistol. I'm pretty sure I have just about everything I need to maintain and make more ammunition in the field. Normally I don't carry the ball mold, lead ladle, and or lead bars to save on weight.