>>64809450
>fins
*frames

Pietta makes an 1851 navy with a pepperbox style cylinder/barrels.

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>>64809450

>>64809450
Mech E grad; I was thinking of something like this recently as a thing to try. Would people actually want them enough to justify starting a Classic Arms style company for a few years, I wonder? How much would you spend on a pepperbox, classic or modern nowadays? Be really honest.

>>64811642
Depends on the caliber and the actual shootability of such a thing, but assuming it's in 22LR and isn't miserable I'd cough up 3-400. I feel like I'd go as high as 800 if it could be made in something like 38 special or even 357

>>64809450
>electronic primer
Remington tried that like 25 years ago. It was actually a really cool concept, and nobody bought it

>>64809450
Under US law, wouldn't an electrically primed pepperbox fall afoul of laws around weapons which can be easily modified to full auto?

Similarly, wouldn't a volley fire pepperbox be outright considered an automatic weapon and thus be very illegal for civilians in most western countries?

Setting those aside, an electrically primed gun is going to need specialized ammo which won't come cheap, and having a bunch of electronics in a gun isn't going to do wonders for its reliability. On top of that, you also get to deal with the extra weight and bulk of several parallel barrels which kills this thing's usefulness as a light concealable weapon, and those multiple barrels aren't going to have the same point of impact so this thing isn't going to be a great target shooting pistol. The only real advantage is that you could potentially cram dozens of rounds into a pistol form factor if you go down the metal storm route, but that isn't actually useful as a pistol which leaves this thing as a complete gimmick weapon which isn't worth the several thousands dollars per gun that it would cost to make. If you could get it down to a few hundred then it might attract buyers, but good luck with doing that without making the thing into a Zip22 tier piece of shit in the process.

>>64811687
Volleyfire has an exception.

>>64811642
Depends on the caliber, depends on the materials. Depends also on the design itself and whether it’s nice or not.

I am a machinist so I know it’s not simply a matter of cnc go brrrr. A lot of thought, planning and trial and error goes into the manufacturing process.

If it was say a modern copy of a Howdah in a big bore caliber I would pay up to 800-1000 for one. I think a Howda in .45’70 or .500 S&W would be popular.

>>64809450
>Why aren't there modern pepperbox pistols?
Weight.

They lost to single-barrel revolvers because of weight and revolvers lost to autos because of weight, profile, complexity, etc.

Modern repros do exist but they are pricey.

>>64809450
>virtually no moving parts, highly reliable and easy maintainance
Are these things that you can show to be true or are they things that you just decided? The COP derringer with only 4 barrels has like twice as many parts as a Makarov. If you want to pare them each down to just moving parts then be my guest but I think your starting premise is flawed and then you go straight into
>electronic primer
and
>16 rounds of .22 LR
It's OK to think something's cool, you don't need to come up with some convoluted bullshit about how "modern principles" would totes make it better than the stuff that actually evolved to be better. Of course the bottom line to the question
>Why aren't there modern pepperbox pistols?
is that you fags wouldn't actually buy them. This is basically just another top load revolver thread with extra barrels.

>>64811914
>The COP derringer with only 4 barrels has like twice as many parts as a Makarov
COP isn't an electronic firing gun. An electronic pepperbox would be more like this:>>64809739
>you don't need to come up with some convoluted bullshit about how "modern principles"
It's a modern principle. Fitting 16 barrels in a non rotating gun wasn't possible before electronic firing.
>This is basically just another top load revolver thread with extra barrels.
Revolvers have timing issues among like a dozen other common problems.

>>64809450
>Why aren't there modern pepperbox pistols?
They're heavy and obnoxious to carry compared to a revolver

>>64812224
>Revolvers have timing issues among like a dozen other common problems.
They really don't though. Your electronic ignition system is going to be much less reliable.

>>64811642
>How much would you spend on a pepperbox, classic or modern nowadays? Be really honest.
I like pepperboxes, especially large-bore ones, since I'm into any sort of "hand cannon". I have zero interest in generic historical reproductions, but if you made them in some really bizzare configuration, or big-bore, I'd be interested. I'd even be willing to spend several thousand, but I'm also picky as fuck and the quality better be amazing to get me to spend that kind of money. You make Freedom Arms quality and I'll pay you Freedom Arms money.

>>64811842
The Italians make Howdahs in .45 LC/.410. Several years ago they were around that price, I think they're more like $1500 now. I agree those are cool guns, but I think they're going to run into the same problem that double-barrel shotguns encounter: they're either cheap and shitty, or they're nice but prohibitively expensive and there is little middle ground.

>>64809709
>disappointing to say the least
No sights: https://youtu.be/h04dIdgQN7E?si=1Yrg4ZN-J-FClEfu

>>64809709
>a pepperbox style cylinder/barrels
>>64811914
>The COP derringer with only 4 barrels has like twice as many parts as a Makarov
Instead of moving the cyliders move fhe fireing pin.

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>>64812767
>Instead of moving the cyliders move fhe fireing pin.
That's exactly what the COP derringer does. It uses a copy of the old Charles Lancaster mechanism, same as picrel. This is a 2-barrel but they also made 4-barrels.

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>>64809450
why are you forgetting this sweet Cobray, OP?

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>>64812789
Don't forget this one!

>>64812224
>Bro just make it electronic
This famously does not make guns less complicated or more reliable.

>>64812699
>Your electronic ignition system is going to be much less reliable.
>This famously does not make guns less complicated or more reliable.
Source?

>>64813250
Electronic ignition or electronic triggers for airguns are common in high-end target match rifles, like the kind that are used at the Olympics. They often malfunction. If they malfunction regularly despite the extremely high cost, degree of care used in competition at that level, then how does anyone expect cheaper ones them to perform reliably in much rougher conditions?

>>64812781
Demoman, is that you?

>>64813284
I've only seen one case of malfunction.
>despite the extremely high cost
Because all competition guns are extremely high cost regardless of the mechanism. They have the highest precision parts.
>then how does anyone expect cheaper ones them to perform reliably in much rougher conditions?
We already had EtronX performing reliably 23 years ago. It just didn't sell well because

>>64813349
>because
cont. it was kind of expensive for a bolt action rifle, but more so because you needed electric primer ammunition for it I would guess.

>>64813250
>Source?
Post "an electronic firing gun" that you own.

>>64813358
EtronX was a great example. They launched it right, the ammo was available and they even sold EtronX primers so handloaders could use them too. Nobody bought them because they were a solution to a problem that nobody was asking. They didn't do anything better than a normal Remington 700. Theoretically they had a shorter lock time because the electronic ignition was faster than the mechanical action of a traditional rifle but that didn't deliver any real-world benefits.

>>64813510
The problem with EtronX is it's a normal ass bolt action rifle when they could've made a modern volley rifle with select fire instead. I'm sure that would be illegal in most states though.

>>64813573
Volley fire is cool as hell, and I wish more guns were made for it. It is legal under Federal law. But that said, it's kind of useless for any practical purpose so I understand why its so hard to find.

>>64809450
So a Revolver but heavier? I mean, it would solve the gas sealing issue.

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>>64811658
>>64811842
>>64812746
I went and found an original 1800's pepperbox barrel for a pittance just to get a feel for the size/weight of it. This is approximately .32 caliber, weighs about a pound alone. It is quite heavy for what it is. On the plus side, maybe that means something in a larger caliber wouldn't feel terribly snappy. It's about 3 1/4 inches long; could make a smaller, lighter version for .22 and make a modern analogue in .32 S&W long. I would probably prototype the idea up to .45 caliber something or other.

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>>64814161
>.32
>.45
How cute. This is .577

>>64814285
That's doable if it's black powder + percussion, otherwise I'd need an FFL type 10. Everyone's mentioned modern ammo so far. Would you get a black powder repro in .577? I like how that sounds, personally.

>>64809450
they are an ineffectient evolutionary step to the revolver you retard.

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>>64809450
Because we don't live in Elysium.

Make a volley fire pepperbox hand shotgun. For when you want "yes" projectiles in "somewhere there" direction.

>>64809450
Why not just carry 3 deringers?

>>64809450
because they are garbage and probably wouldn't hold up to modern rounds

>>64813592
Volley guns are not useless when you can trigger individual barrels and not all of them at the same time. Reloading speed remains a problem though.

>>64814303
Revolver is too mechanically complex. Cheap shit like RIA M200 have timing issues out of the box.

>>64816505
>Volley guns are not useless when you can trigger individual barrels
So, in other words, you can just pretend it's like a normal gun? Or I could just buy a normal gun instead.

>Cheap shit like RIA M200 have timing issues out of the box.
Cheap stuff malfunctions. News at 11. That's a problem with cheap electronics too.

They're very expensive to produce, very heavy, not accurate, the triggers become problematic, the calibers they come in are typically inadequate.

Would you rather have a magazine with 8 rounds and one barrel, or 8 barrels and no magazine? Shit they're like revolvers you can't reload properly and which weight a ton.

They exist as deringers, with two shots it's still cheaper to use two barrels, and these are more concealable. But 4,5,6 etc? Increasingly stupid, you get a revolver

>>64811687
If you were making a gun illegaly, boring a hex grid of barrels and loading it with electric primers would be by far the best option. Unwieldy. But it would have the fire power and be reliable. Ask Shinzo.

Legally the issue would be that the fire control would be effectively electronic, so they're would be no real separation from volley fire, chain fire, manual trigger and timed trigger. Shit you could set it off by radio/wire like a claymore.

And I think there are indeed restrictions on barrel clusters to prevent people building semi auto Gatling guns, in some states, which was a real issue before bump fire became a thing.

>>64816552
>Legally the issue would be that the fire control would be effectively electronic
That's not illegal at all. High end match guns have electric triggers. So did the Remington EtronX. Nothing illegal about that.

>restrictions on barrel clusters
Cite a single example, Fudd.

>>64811664
I've always really, really liked it. People say problem looking for solution but respectfully I disagree.

For target shooting it's a very affordable way to produce a very light trigger which still has a reliable safety. Id genuinely use a negative contact system where the trigger depression "arms" the gun as if it were just the safety selector, then the gun fires when the trigger is released, requiring no force.

The other advantage we saw a lot in thy cold war is that it's a compact, silent action. So you could make a falling block rifle with an electrode instead of a firing pin, which you could manipulate silently. No cocking, no cycling spring, no blowback.

And the third obvious advantage is a fully electronic fire control, for something like an internal gun pod, a robot, or an AI target designator. If you were trying to track something like a drone manually, it would be great to just let the gun fire when you swept the target, based on either laser target detection for something like point defence, or ranged in like flak.

And if you were building some kind of pipe gun or cannon it would be a no brainer, you'd use the same kind of system the 25mm grenade launcher machine gun thing uses. Potentially stacked brass slugs and a metal storm electrode array.

>>64816566
Chain fire is automatic fire, it's the same issue as gattling guns. Are you firing each barrel one by one, with individual trigger pulls, or is it an automatic weapon with multiple barrels?

As soon as you've got an electronic fire control on a weapon with multiple barrels, there is no mechanical feature which prevents it from chain firing, it depends entirely on how you program it. The law is based on mechanical features, a gun being programmed to single fire does not make it a single fire weapon. It has the capacity to maintain a cyclical rate of fire.

There is NO exception for magazine capacity in an automatic weapon, if you fire 2,4,8 rounds cyclically, you've got a8 round automatic weapon. That's the exact reason volley guns even needed an exception, the inference they might accidentally chain fire. But if you're pepper box has electrification, it could be designed to chain fire, and would always have that capacity.

>>64816639
Right, so it's the multi-barrel thing that's the problem, not the electronic trigger itself.

Still waiting on that citation about what states ban "barrel clusters"....

>>64816590
>For target shooting
A gun with multiple barrels is miserable for target shooting because it introduces the problem of aiming the barrels at the same point.

> fully electronic fire control, for something like an internal gun pod
A superposed system that is fired inductively rather than with direct electrode contact makes much more sense than that

>>64816566
>. High end match guns have electric triggers.
what?

>>64817696
The shit they shoot at the olympics

>>64817789
they don't shoot guns at the olympics. it's air shit or laserz

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>>64811642
someone ought to develop a pepperbox that's integrally suppressed. a blank cartridge accellerating the projectile (ideally a projectile of a readily available caliber) via a pison forming a tight gas seal. kinda like the soviet rounds (pic related), but because the suppression happens in the cylinder you only need to register that instead of every single cartridge individually. reloaded quickly via replacement barrel clusters (of whatever shape they may be).
could also consider putting the barrels above the grip to cut down on length (albeit inrcreasing the leverage for the recoil), or arranging the entire thing in a tube-shaped housing without a traditional pistol grip (held like a flashlight. or have a fold-out grip).

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>>64809450
Wouldn't a shotgun pistol accomplish the intent of this design far more efficiently?

>>64809450
Weight. 16 barrels for even .22LR would be extremely heavy for what it is.

>>64812761
>?si=1Yrg4ZN-J-FClEfu
thank you mossad

>>64818087
You're talking about the NATO hk11 (?) Unsure about the designation because it's classified.

A neiche use case for pistols with multiple barrels is where integral suppression prevents extraction and cycling, so the Russian VPS family, but also several guns designed to fire under water, or which fire something like a tazer, or a gas dart. So you're on the right track here, what you're talking about exists.

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>>64820286
I'll admit i forgot about the P11. Ian actaully did a video on it 2 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ_yAn2vQHw
but as demonstrated, the P11 is very much not suitable for regular use (even if it were readily available at stores). with its non user-reloadable barrel clusters, weird electric ignition and specialty projectiles. and it's anything but available on the market.
Imagine a pepperbox like that you could just buy, without the (formerly $200, now $0) stamp, cuz i's coming from the factory with a normal non-NFA cluster of rifled barrels for ease of sale.
and separately sold (each registered due to counting as suppressor) clusters with the aforementioned silent piston technology (or recreate the sabot method HK used in a way that doesn't require specialty ammo); reloaded with, say, 9mmR or .22 blanks and a common type of .30cal projectile, like .300blk. that you can all reload by hand without special technology. maybe for the whole underwater thing you'd need to go a bit more specialty.
to paint a picture of an ideal outcome: i think if it's competently designed and manufactured, and not too bulky, and the whole silent cluster aspect plays out, plenty of people would be interested. might even get a govt contract (military or some of the various other organizations) since the nonproprietary aspect of it means you're no longer reliant on a single foreign company servicing the pieces (AMERICA FIRST BUYBUYBUY), and i could see them become somehwat commonplace because people like not having their eardrums blown out when shooting (especailly in self defense, but again you can gotta remain some level of compact-ness for that for that).
which is why I replied to >>64811642 , who is playing with the idea of designing and putting a new pepperbox into production.

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>>64811687
They sell these with no problem

>>64816505
And a RIA pepper box would be better made because…?

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>>64816552
> I think there are indeed restrictions on barrel clusters to prevent people building semi auto Gatling guns, in some states, which was a real issue before bump fire became a thing.


You can buy these for 5 grand no problem

>>64816566
This poster is a foreigner from a no guns country who knows jackshit about our gun laws

>>64818475
Get out of here with your logic

>>64821039
Would have been real cool with a longer barrel.

>>64816505
>Volley guns are not useless when you can trigger individual barrels
Then it's not a volley gun you coping retard.

>>64819447
How did you find me? What was my "tell"?

>>64821039
>no problem
No problem, except they suck.

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>>64821046
>prevent people building semi auto Gatling guns
No.

>>64822001
I didn’t say it was good

imagine a 4 barrel pepperbox, like that cobray one, so no revolver gas seal issue.

w/ each barrel having a suppresor. you could even do those rubber wipes like those welrod copies.

it'd weigh a ton, but man, it'd be quiet.

>>64809450
That’s what killed the jap premier

>>64813592
>But that said, it's kind of useless for any practical purpose so I understand why its so hard to find.
The future is bursting ceramic armor with volleyfire rifles, vaporizing unarmored chests with volleyfire pistols, and killing entire rooms full of corpse steeling midgets with four simultaneous shotgun blasts.

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>>64823362
>killing entire rooms full of corpse steeling midgets with four simultaneous shotgun blasts.
I was going to say that you wouldn't have the spread on a pepperbox but then I realised!
FINALLY!

A (semi-)coherent use for picrel.

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>>64809450
No idea what you're on about OP but I feel like there'd be a market for a Mossberg brownie clone.
Probably not one made by Mossberg though lol

>>64816519
>That's a problem with cheap electronics too.
The difference is the rate of failure. I bought a $4 TV stick 7 years ago. Still working to this day.

>>64821042
No moving parts, no moving part related issues. It doesn't need to be as precise.

>>64821994
If Metal Storm is called a volley gun, this would also be. It's basically a scaled down Metal Storm.

>>64809450
Derringers are kinda like pepperboxes with only 2 barrels, except the fill a neiche that is still applicable today.

Most of the time it's practicality and the gun being outdated the metal storm system is totally different minus replicas most pepperbox pistols aren't really practical in a modern 2026 world

>>64823072
Who

>>64811687
if it's a muzzle loader I don't think it technically even counts as a firearm

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What about something like this?