>>64822716
J-20? Also, what's the reasoning behind having 3 engines and not just 2

>>64822723
I was a boom operator on a KC-135 during OIF and I have been waiting 23 years to see one of them again

>>64822723
> what's the reasoning behind having 3 engines
China can’t into modern high performance engines

>>64822729
See what anon? The J-20s have only been worked on in the last 10 years or less

>>64822716
what the fuck am I looking at

>>64822723
Engines are ridiculously hard. Each time the US produces some new engine for a fighter, it may as well be restarting the Manhattan project. The upgrade to the F35's engines was cancelled because of the staggering cost that would it have demanded.

>>64822723
Why not 1?
>Why aren't they developing an engine of the 200 kN class for a single aircraft?
It should be more than obvious... and most aircraft engines share part of its parts but it has tradeoffs.

>>64822748
>>64822723
It's the J-36, supposedly

>another chink spam thread

I was starting to wonder where the second thread about this was. I bet the other one will mysteriously start getting bumped soon too.

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>>64822716
>all engines alight on the ground
so it's not a center-scramjet design. that's actually fucking hilarious.

>>64822768
>so it's not a center-scramjet design
we knew this months ago

>>64822768
>>64822772
what's the significance of this? I'm clueless about jets

>>64822774
It means chink can't into engines and has to use 3 engines as a cope

>>64822772
i was holding out the tiniest bit of hope that they had something wild up their sleeve for funsies
>>64822774
short version: china still can't into high-end jet engine designs.
long version: the jet isn't designed to have a high-speed high-performance engine take over and push it into higher mach speeds. instead the three engine design now suggests that there is either a hefty payload intended for the plane, or their engines are really, REALLY shit. my money's on this being a Temu F-117 still

>>64822774
rather than a high speed wunderwaffe propaganda claimed it is it's just a fat slob with underpowered engines which is why it has 3 of them

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Reminder that China could have killed the NGAD program by simply by not showing it off for another couple of months.

>>64822723
China still can't produce an engine in 20s that's as powerful as the US was putting into their jets in the 80s. So they need 3 of them to have performance.

>>64822784
>Retard thinks large countries will simply stop developing new aircraft
Only Euros were super self-deluded with the F-35, and yet, they're developing/studying next gen fighters.

>>64822786
Did you know the NK22/322 has 50% more thrust than the largest US made AB turbofan? is the US more incapable than soviets?

>>64822791
It's a spectrum of reliability, performance, weight, and cost (and probably some other metrics)

>>64822791
ESL aside, you need to be very foolish to believe paper specs of anything that comes out of russia. Soviets at some point did make good engines and that's why china even has any production at all, but soviet union ceased existing long time ago.

>>64822795
Yes anon, nothing is real outside the US. Now take your risperidone

>>64822784
This lmao, shit was about to undergo restructuring for a low cost fighter

>>64822798
soviet competence that isn't founded on industrial espionage certainly isn't pidor

imagine bringing up a 1960s soviet turbofan that chokes and shatters when you look at it wrong to defend chinkshit.

>>64822716
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMEuy0G5n34
>THE INTAKE WONT FIT
CUT A HOLE AND HAVE IT STICK OUT THE TOP
>THE ENGINES NO GOOD
GET 3 ENGINES AND STRAP THEM TOGETHER

>>64822768
It's doctrinally a heavy-fighter with stealth coating. The idea that it will be able to get high up, fast, and send long-range missiles at AWACS and tankers before American fighters know it's there. Or likewise send missiles towards surface targets. I do not think it will have particularly long legs.
No scramjets, no supermaneuvrability, no lasers, no mini-VLS or other bullshit that some were claiming.

>>64822798
You shouldn't believe paper specs on the US gear either but
>be soviets
>claim your gear is capable of x
>is actually propaganda and it's at best x-1
>be US
>see soviet propaganda
>build something that can do x+2 to beat it
>claim you're capable of x+1 to keep your real capabilities secret

US military is way ahead of any of its adversaries technologically, and no amount of cope is going to change that. We've all seen how chinese AD worked in Venezuela.

>>64822815
I hope this is still true because the NGAD will be goddam magical if it was built assuming all Russian/Chinese claims were real.

>>64822802
>pidor
Take your risperidone first, I'm not an imaginary character of your stupid mind.

Lyulka and Mikulin were competent and in charge of competent design offices, they were ahead the US in some specs like compressors. They can't do espionage if they invent something first (ironically after Mikulin left the Nº300 they dropped the highly loaded stages...)
Soviets had competent people but they didn't purge all the other retards and usually let things stay unfixed and pretend they worked, they problems were more complex than just saying "muh incompetent.

>1960s soviet turbofan
You're too incompetent to put dates to any design.

>>64822806
I could mention something to show your stupidity but cocky ignorance is your gift.

>>64822823
>Lyulka and Mikulin were competent
at embezzling money
>they were ahead the US
in killing aircrews
>They can't do espionage if they invent something first
something they've never done in their existence
>Soviets had competent people but they didn't purge all the other retards
they purged the competent people and replaced them with russians
> they problems were more complex than just saying "muh incompetent.
you're incompetent in your pathetic cope, vatnigger

>>64822815
Atlas rockets didn't use the RD-180 to hide some wunderengine

>>64822828
>wordplay as an answer
Not even
>vatnigger
I've been banned multiple times for posting z****r, because, whatever. kys

>>64822813
This sounds, frankly, retarded. Mainly because it presumes that America will put those assets within range of the Chinese mainland before said heavy fighter has been pacified. It'd make sense if it was something that could strike far as fuck away, penetrate the net, and had endurance to reach out and touch the things you don't want touched but nothing about this screams it can do any of that. Imagine a scenario where at least a token number of NGADs are flying by the time the shit show in the Pacific kicks off. What good is this thing then, at all? It seems like a titanic boondoggle on their part. Even more than MIGHTY DRAGON.

>>64822831
yeah, they were using them to fund russia's dying industry as part of the piece dividend and cash in on that dirt cheap soviet labor instead. good thing russians are subhuman niggers that will always waste anything good they stumbled upon by accident which is why they picked a fight with Spacex and killed their space industry because of it.

>>64822838
Giving funds to the company in charge of delivering the nuckes the rest of the world isn't some grand strategy to pacify them or reduce their capacity.
>unlike projects like turning ICBM (UA-RU venture) into orbital launchers or Pu into nuclear fuel.
The RD-180 was better as first stage engine than anything the US had before the late 2000s.

>>64822842
>Giving funds to the company in charge of delivering the nuckes the rest of the world isn't some grand strategy to pacify them or reduce their capacity.
Is there anybody besides some crusty congress boomers that still think that bailing russia out and giving them a chance after the cold war was a right choice?
>The RD-180 was better as first stage engine than anything the US had before the late 2000s.
F-1 begs to differ but you can't saw it into fours and put it onto a tiny commercial launch rocket.

>>64822853
The F-1 was big (its combustion chamber), but that's all, it had a simple and inefficient turbopump, an absolutely mediocre Isp (should I mention the rocket equation?) and low chamber pressure besides the question of combustion stability.
At least name the H-1/RS-27. Only the SSME of the Space Shuttle had a more advanced cycle but hydrolox engines have their own problems for the 1st stage.
The NK-15/33/17x/18x family has its merits.

>>64822723
Could be they couldn't hit their target thrust with 2, could be the centre is high by-pass optimized for range.

>>64822837
It's all I can think of. The engines and weapons take up a lot of space. Then there's the radars and other sensors. Running at full power, those engines are going to suck up fuel quick.
The tanker dilemma is also one the USAF and USN have already considered. They're aiming towards smaller UAV tankers and stealthier aircraft.

>>64822919
Production representative MQ-25 had its first taxi test this week. First flight supposed to be early this year now. Very interesting intakes on those

>>64822898
I would question that the necessary internal volume and weight penalty to accommodate the third engine would possibly work out in their favor there. I would wager it’s for electrical power generation primarily and thrust secondarily. 6th gen systems stand to be extraordinarily power hungry, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the reason for the third engine is that they’ve downrated the thrust to pull more engine power into electrical generation

This is so fucking stupid. I know most dick waving is for internal consumption but seriously what the fuck? If the small nuggets of info we've gotten out of the JASM SAP development is anything to go by, Low-observables are a moot issue for future USAF/USN BVR capabilities. Unless you're going full on mirror F-22 you're gonna get dinked up the fucking ass anyways. What a waste of R&D on a fat piece of shit. Unironically a shit ton of J-20's slinging PL-15's would be a much better bang for your buck.

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>>64822768
LMAO changs will literally copy/steal everything from the US, even patches

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>>64822956
I assume you mistyped JATM. And if you're implying that a 3-enginged (chink engined at that) fat wedge is going to be an easy target then... yeah.

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>>64822716
Dihedral wings

>>64822946
Lol wut. A single jet engine could power an ENTIRE data center. It's overkill if it is solely for electrical power on a plane. But, if we're planing doubles advocate, then maybe they have a beam weapon on board?

These are very high performance engines, they have very competitive thrust for their diameter.
The engineers simply came to the conclusion that using 3 large fighter engines gives them the right thrust for the size of the plane, which is fucking huge.
Why develop a new engine when you can re-use an existing one that was designed for J-20 and is optimized for the flight regime you need?
They also use the same engine in the J-10C

J-10C - light fighter - 1 engine
J-20 - heavy fighter - 2 engines
J-36 - airborne cruiser - 3 engines

Quite smart. I frankly don't get why they are building J-35 with two WS-19, seems inefficient.

>Quite smart
lol

>>64823135
It can’t power a data center while keeping a plane in the air. More electrical generation means less thrust, and the big thing making 6th gen worth a new generation is the shit ton of gadgets drawing insane amounts of power.

>>64823150
5th gen use about 5-10% of their engine power output to drive generators.
6th gen will use 10-15%.

It is a significant load, but ... not that crazy.

I'll call this one "mutt eater"

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>>64822716
>>64823051

China is the hope for the world

>>64823222
It’s quite a lot to account for when you consider it has to provide power, bleed air for cooling, and thrust, all while not running the engine so hot that it’s constantly in depot maintenance. 5-10% vs 10-15% is 50-100% more draw for power/cooling. A third engine is a very expensive addition in terms of money, manhours, and internal volume, there is a good reason we haven’t seen it on fighters or strike fighters previously, and obscene power draw is the best reasoning I’ve seen to explain it. From what we’ve seen of the prototypes China intends to absolutely load up on high power draw sensors. If you intend to leave any reasonable growth margin you will need quite a lot of power generation capacity.

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It's over. It's time to bend the knee to Xi.

>>64823250
You obviously suffer from profound mental retardation and are incapable of forming any cohesive thoughts.

>>64823250
>bigger plane has more engines
>ITS BECAUSE OF POWER DRAW

>>64823278
>>64823274
Why are you samefagging? Literally a min apart.

>>64822774
It suggests in already needs the power for basic operation and fast and the furious hidden ace to play.

Also scramjets are nice for high speed no moving parts high output for sprints etc.

>>64823280
Why are you posting at all?

Chinese planes OWE ME hugs and kisses, plus hand holding during anal in the missionary position.

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>>64822784
>it happened again

>>64823274
Pipe down nigger. That many engines is retarded, you’ve made the internals of the plane mostly air. For anyone wondering look at a cross section of an EE Lightning, you’re wasting all your volume.
>>64823278
Yes, the only tangible aspect differentiating 5th and 6th gen. You aren’t throwing a third engine into a supersonic aircraft unless something has put a gun to your head, because you are ballooning your airframe volume and sending your fuel consumption to the moon.

>>64823268
Who is making all these videos?

>>64822837
>Mainly because it presumes that America will put those assets within range of the Chinese mainland before said heavy fighter has been pacified.

...and in order to "pacify" the chink airforce America needs to put AWACS and tankers into the risk zone or american jets will be at a serious disadvantage. So you are just sprouting Eglin bullshit.

>>64823373
>eglin screeching
third worlder detected

>>64823332
>You aren’t throwing a third engine into a supersonic aircraft unless something has put a gun to your head, because you are ballooning your airframe volume and sending your fuel consumption to the moon.

Aircraft internal volume scales up faster than external surface area when aircraft size increases. It means that drag does not increase as fast as internal fuel volume. So, I would not be surprised if they make something that is even bigger than the JH-36, something like a stealth B-70 but larger.

>>64822837
>Mainly because it presumes that America will put those assets within range of the Chinese mainland before said heavy fighter has been pacified.
Then America has no AWACS and tanker support within 1000 miles of Chinese mainland and USAF capabilities collapse.

>>64822723
they have bad engine design, so they need 3 instead of 2 engines to make it work.
same reason their F35 "equivalent" needs 2 engines instead of 1 and still sucks in comparison.

>>64823143
>I frankly don't get why they are building J-35 with two WS-19, seems inefficient.
Same thing as F-18. Naval fighter, there is preference for two engine fighters for naval fighters for survivability, ejecting into ocean after your single engine failed is not fun

>>64823387
And with that internal volume scales structural weight. And again you are wasting the most use volume of the aircraft on intake ducting and additional engine space. Weapon bays, landing gear, and fuel are all competing for that added volume, but as near as I can tell most additional fuel volume would still be in the very large wings. A third engine adds massive costs in money and man hours, as you have to spend 50% more on fuel, 50% more in engine maintenance, and 50% more just buying the damn engines vs a twin. There’s very good reason that even tactical bomber designs didn’t go above two engines, it’s extraordinarily wasteful for little tangible benefit

>>64822946
the problem with your theory is that this is not a 6th gen aircraft.
they tried to shill it as that of course, and they made a big song and dance of parading it around populated areas at low altitude, to go "ROOK ROOK WE GOT 6TH GEN FIRST" but really the only effect it's had is re-activating the F-15 effect, and forcing the US to pretend china has a 6th gen and then absolutely raping the thing they've actually built.

>>64823240
no, they are the cope for the third world.

>>64823143
this is cope, chink engines are simply bad.
>>64823222
that's cool, but the J-36 is not a 6th gen, one could hardly call it 5th gen since chinks still haven't mastered actual stealth coatings.
>>64823238
that's kind of a misnomer, because it's going to get eaten by mutts instead.

>>64822716
>even with an authoritarian surveillance state chink security is so dogshit that random faggots can regularly snap pics of classified aircraft
Lel

>>64823324
i don't have a horse in this race
but f15 is such a sexy plane. it and su29 might be the best looking jets ever.
was that the golden age of cool looking planes, anons? it feels so different now.

>>64823395
>What is the Navy for $500?

>>64823412
?
If the design of your aircraft needs a third engine for the power and speed, then you put in a third engine

>>64823398
It's better to run one engine across multiple airframes than make 3 different engines

>>64823563
If it needs a third engine you’re better off designing a new one

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>>64822723
Could be power requirements. People often forget that engines generate a ton of power which can be used to power auxilliary systems. Look at the F15 and all of its variants. They could be using the extra power generated as literal electrical power, in addition to adding redundancy with thrust. Could also be a design compromise. We'll never know
>pic unrelated

>>64822791
>Shit lifespan
>Shit service interval
So the N1 of engines

>>64823143
More smaller engines is almost always more efficient than one larger one. You pay for it in increased complexity, but if you can't build a performant and reliable enough single engine it makes a lot of sense. Also, if it's meant to be a carrier fighter, you want the redundancy so you don't drop into the ocean if you suffer an engine failure.

>>64824281
Your statement is so blatantly false

>>64822768
based africa attacking south america

>>64824478
>ur wrong
>no i won't elaborate in anyway
cool, thanks
high quality post

>>64824281
>More smaller engines is almost always more efficient than one larger one. You pay for it in increased complexity
How the fuck did you manage to immediately contradict yourself

>>64823888
By the NK-33 they fixed the problems of a new cycle and engine. The RD-17x/18x are as reliable as you can ask even with russian tier manufacturing.

>>64824485
Why should such an obvious fact and one you immediately contradicted need to be explained

>>64823268
what is it with chinkshill and aislop?

>>64824488
complexity != efficiency
it doesn't matter if you fit a big ass single engine if it needs to eat itself alive and drink fuel to get the performance you want
to put it another way, you can run two smaller engines less hard for the same amount of performance

>>64822723
Triple the maintenance and fuel burn over 1 good turbine. .

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>>64824520
>you can run two smaller engines less hard for the same amount of performance
Wrong and three is even worse you fucking moron

>>64824534
Not him.
The F404 was designed to be used in bi-engine fighters as a cheaper and simpler alternative than the F100. The original goal was half the cost and they achieved it, in part by decreasing the TIT.

>>64822723
3 > 2 retard

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>>64823387
>something like a stealth B-70 but larger
>B-70
>but larger
Good luck to them.

>>64823479
What? Even modern russian planes look cool. F-22 and -35 look amazing, of course.

I love the chinks so much they send burgers into incoherent cope on sight, lmao.

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>>64826510
>i-i am an angry chinkshill that makes angry chinkshill threads and i always cope after i've been humiliated that everyone else was totally mad but not me
corrected it for you.
making these weird victory proclamations after you were mercilessly bullied every time is really embarrassing, you should stop doing it, chinkshill.
>n-no i'm totally someone else
no you're not, lmao.

you're going to continue to pretend to be smug and happy after this but you should really save your energy and just not shill anymore, you're very bad at it, you should become a factory worker instead.

>>64823240
Zoom in to the Engines.

>>64823240
y da engines red and not da blu? blu go fasta

>>64823240
ThiCCC ass

>>64823350
Some chink shiposter. They're so absurd, they fall into comedy.

>>64823616
yeah a lot of the the speculation and rumors going around the changternet have to do with electrical power being a big focus. at a minimum it seems to be envisioned as a VLO ewar platform, possibly with considerations for future DEW.

>chinkshill bumping his shill thread a full day later
this is why nobody bothers with you faggot

>>64831294
>extremely low bypass engines in a thermal deadzone will surely produce lots of power because I have no idea how cooling works
surely they aren't this retarded
fuck you for bumping with this bait chinkshill

>>64823350
>Who is making all these videos?
Anything's possible, could be officially made propaganda for unofficial release through wechat/weibo and meant to go viral internally.
Or could just be their own MMiddleKingdomGA crowd doing it for free. Not like they don't have the tools.

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>>64823268
Fucking kek

>>64824547
The 404 was "enlarging the bypass ratio from 0.20 to 0.34 to enable higher fuel efficiency."
Larger engines more efficient
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_F404

>>64832923
Higher bypass, not necessary larger, but yes, GE created the F404 using the J101 and altering it as little as possible. The main change was a new low pressure spool with higher BPR (new LPC paired with an adequate LPT) to increase thrust (at medium and low speed), improving the SFC as side effect.

>>64823268
>China is in the UFO age while America is stuck in the Jet age
Many such cases!
Anyway, great AC8 footage.

>>64822834
I've never been banned for that. Stop lying.

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>>64823268

>>64822716
looks rad desu

>>64822779
It could as well be the first option. I ron't think they ever announced its doctrinal use. I still give them benefit of doubt.
Knowing it's a nation of notorious liars and scammers it is most probabbly the secomd one tough.

>>64823479
For me F15 is THE jet fighter.

>>64822815
This. The cold war arms race is essentially a story of the US chasing Russian ghosts... and fucking catching them.

>>64825960
even bigger b70? Stop, I can only get so erect.

>>64836152
more like beating them at the local track and field meet.

>>64822748
AI mockup of a fake jet

>>64837376
SlopAI caused some irreparable damage in the psyche of Americans.

>>64836009
there's no high fidelity J20 model in DCS

Do China have a tanker capable of rapidly refuelling these large strategic aircraft yet, or are they still using probe and drogue on everything, limiting fuel flow rates?