>>64829336
>comes in 9mm, .40 s&w, 10mm, .22lr
Why no fuddy five ever with smith and wesson?

>>64829336
I see your point but just buy a suppressor

>>64829336
a 9mm pcc that is reliable enough to count on would be more expensive than a reliable enough ar15.
i cant buy a suppressor either way

>>64829352
because ammo is expensive and they want to focus on mass market (also caliber doesnt matter for people who intend to be on target)

>>64829418
reading comprehension bud...in case it isnt clear enough - AR15's are typically mid length uppers with 16" barrels. add 6" for a suppressor and your pushing 40" rifle through doors and hallways. ridiculous if youre trying to check on your kids in the middle of the night or NEET and wandering around in your apartment

>>64829423
interesting. is reliability an issue you know of with specific models or the category in general?

>>64829466
>interesting. is reliability an issue you know of with specific models or the category in general?
9mm pccs aren't all that reliable from what ive shot. mag issues mostly. but i haven't shot all that many I guess.

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An Uzi/Mini Uzi sized 9mm is probably the best thing for home defense practically speaking. Maybe thanks for SBRs being $0 we'll see an affordable, delayed blowback, glock mag fed gun in this size.

PCCs have been obsolete for decades
They're only good as range toys

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12ga shotgun or machine pistol are the perfect home defense guns. If you're planning to use an AR I suggest you fire it without ear pro a few times so you understand what you're in for when N'Darius gets lost in your living room at 2AM.

>>64829536
Since it's a "toy", would you stand in front of one at 20 ft or less?

>>64829552
have you every actually shot a 12ga? its loud and depending on the load highly penetrative. you're not addressing the post mate

>>64829491
Rather die than give money to those people

>>64829557
>have you every actually shot a 12ga?

Yes, and it's better than an AR for HD. If your intent is to incapacitate an intruder, you can put birdshot in to limit over penetration. You can't tone down a 5.56 load.

Ideally you'll be using OO buckshot hitting your target. Buckshot typically stays inside fleshy things, and if it does exit them it has minimal energy and won't make it into a neighbour's house.

Anything aside from a .22 is loud without ear pro, but an SBR AR is something most Anons haven't experienced without ear pro. They've probably heard a shotgun when they've gone hunting.

>>64829480
I'd say the AP5s are proven, but a lot of the cheaper models are out of stock everywhere. When those are in stock for $1200-1300 they're great.

>>64829536
its funny (not really) how people can just say shit like this in 100% earnest

do you think people have just grown sub dermal plates over the years? are you one of those types that think .300blk is the end-all-be-all? did you buy stock in 5.56 and can't stand to lose the rest of your mortgage?
what drives you to say something so fucking stupid?

>>64829568
What a storymark

>>64829569
Agreed on the loudness of an SBR; simple decibel charts say to anyone reasonable that's off the table unless you want to walk away with hearing damage. i dont fully understand the purpose of a shotgun other than pellet spread; racking shells is not particular fast
good input though

>>64829570
i was leaning towards B&T apc9. agreed.

>>64829612
muzzle energy and close range are where shotguns shine. i don't want to get into a ballistics argument but i've seen enough negroids and junkies keep charging after 2-3 rounds of 5.56 passes through them. i've never seen someone make it more than a foot after a slug or buckshot goes into their abdomen.

>>64829336
I have an Extar EP45 for home defense. Thinking about buying a can for it when I get my Christmas bonus in December. Would be nice to be able to deal with a home invader without waking the neighbors.

>>64829637
don't forget trash bags and a hack saw

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>>64829569
>>64829336
>>64829352
Honestly I think a Ruger 10/22 with a BX-25 has some merit. Assuming you use quality ammunition and keep the rifle clean you could zip 10-12 rounds into a pizza box sized target, i.e. an intruder's upper torso and head. One .22 may not have a lot of oomph but a handful is likely penetrate a skull
>>64829637
I've been interested in Extars for a while now. I'd really like to hear your thoughts on yours. What's the quality like on it, how many round have you put through it, ect. IIRC the upper is polymer right? How's it holding up?

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>>64829674
Then you'd have to explain to a courtroom/jury why you shot L'Quashius 12 times.

A pump shotgun is perceived as the most generic and unassuming of guns, and it only requires a single shot to dispatch a wayward rocket surgeon who stumbles into your foyer.

>>64829674
Only about 1000 rounds so far. It cycles about any ammo I put through it so long as I use a Glock mag. Extended mags are iffy. I have a kriss and 2 30 round ETS mags that function well enough but for HD I just use the stock 15 round Glock mag. Zero feeding issues with that.
As far as reliability, I inspect it closely after every range trip to check for wear or splitting and no issues so far. It started out as a range toy but has replaced my AR for HD for the reasons OP pointed out.
Eventually I'd like to replace it with a 10mm stribog.

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>>64829336
I want to the best option to win and overmatch as much as possible

Now that the NFA tax is $0. I want a 300Blackout SBR with a suppressor for HD. First 10 shots would be subs followed by 20 supers.

Or I might get a 10-inch pump shotgun.

>>64829336
>Why would I use an AR-15 (or shotgun for that matter, the same cons exist) instead of a 9mm PCC to investigate the "bump in the night"?
Because rifle rounds have better stopping power. A 300 blk vmax/TAP round from a 6-8” barrel will more reliably stop an intruder in one shot while not over-penetrating.
Of course, 9mm is plenty lethal but pistol rounds are just far less energetic than rifle rounds. Simple as.

>muh shot placement, caliber doesn’t matter etc.
Cool, use 22 lr then smart guy.

>>64829336
counter argument
I have an AR and a shotgun but no PCC

>>64829352
idk why they make it in .40. A lot of people have .22lr and 9mm and they are cheap calibers so someone might buy it as a range toy. I'm assuming 10mm for the same reason there's now a marlin 1894 in 10mm aka burrs and larpers worried about burrs

>>64831193
.40 is still popular enough for now, they had the fpc's in .40 at a local chain and they sold out, got new stock and sold out again so people must be nabbing them. I would if i didnt get rid of my m&p 2.0 in .40 last year

>>64829466
>is reliability an issue you know of with specific models or the category in general?
a lot of them are shitty blow back guns

>>64829552
>>64829557
I feel like the concussion off my 18.5 inch shotgun is worse than my AR by a mile

>>64829569
>birdshot
Immediately dismissed, noguns kid

>>64829491
>best thing for home defense practically speaking
It's expensive. It's finicky with mags. Most models' sights are shit and most of them don't accommodate optics (or a light for that matter). If it isn't an SBR then it also isn't getting a stock or brace of any sort because it lacks options for those two. The trigger is usually heavy, sometimes quite long and gritty. The nature of the action and overall design makes muzzle flip a bitch despite being a stamped-steel 9mm burp gun. It is NOT a good choice for ANYTHING other than a range toy.
>glock mag fed
Grip angle. Wouldn't feed. And if they modified it to do so, people would bitch about the looks (99% of why people get an Uzi).

>>64831227
return to reddit, immediately.

>>64829569
>n. You can't tone down a 5.56 load.
a 556 load is less likely to cause harm than buckshot or even a 9mm hollowpoint out of a pistol-length barrel. why? The bullet is so light it has little momentum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSP0uZ61QDo

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>>64829336
From the standpoint of blast signature, yes, PCCs can claim a victory over an AR. Now consider:
>AR-9

>>64829690
damn thats a purdy scattergun you got there

>>64829569
>birdshot
my 12 gauge also has more concussion than my AR, no gunz yuropoor

>>64829612
the shotgun think is basically just due to them being ubiquitous due to being hunting guns for a long time. the only other advantage a shotgun might have is looking better to a jury if you subscribe to that theory which was based off mock trials and not actual trials

>>64829336
5.56 out of short barrels has enough velocity with lighter bullets to fragment at home defense distances so you will get drastically better effect on whoever you are shooting than you would using 9mm or other pistol calibers. If you are that worried about sound and blast then get a 10.3 inch barrel with a suppressor, it will be around 15 inches long at most even for very big cans. If you are truly still worried about blast then get a 300 BO AR and run a suppressor and subsonic ammunition on it. You will still end up with a far more effective projectile that expands close to an inch while being shorter and quieter than a PCC.

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>>64831441
>concussion

Midwit detected

>>64829336
Because 9mm pokes a hole, 5.56 at home ranges has energy that translates and transfers to massive tissue damage.
5.56 at close range is a man stopper. 9mm at close range is still just poking 9mm holes.

>>64831179
> but no PCC
You’re missing out. They’re fun.

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>>64829491
>we'll see an affordable, delayed blowback, glock mag fed gun in this size.
Maybe.

>>64829568
One can only hope you do.

>>64829569
>most Anons haven't experienced without ear pro. They've probably heard a shotgun when they've gone hunting.
Implying most go hunting? Doubt.

>>64831450
Paul Harrel was a serial self defender and in his words the courts will look at “tactical” style guns with a “jaundiced eye”.

>>64832146
Paul Harrel was a serial.killer who didn't die soon enough. Glad he did though, that should save a few lives.

>>64832146
Paul never went to court using a "tactical" gun so how would he know what their reaction would be?

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>>64832150

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>>64829574
>do you think people have just grown sub dermal plates over the years?
Have you not?
Fuckin platelets i swear

>>64829336
I like the hd pcc idea but if you're gonna do that I would get something more powerful than lol 9mm. I had a cmmg 45 which totally sucked and constantly jammed but on paper the idea of 45super or 450 smc out of a 10 inch barrel for hd seems like a good idea to me.

>>64829336
The draw for a HD PCC is to use it with an FRT and hose the unfortunate motherfucker down. Is it safer than 5.56? I dunno nor do I care since I live alone. Will it hit the neighbors? I dunno nor care since that's their mistake living next to me. Is it legal? I dunno nor care since I get to light up Jamal like a menorah

>>64831193
Maybe Smith and Wesson makes guns in .40 Smith and Wesson out of pride?

>>64832065
you are a nogunz retard. guns have concussion independent from noise or recoil

>>64832131
I dont really have a reason to get one. my state is still gay about ccw and I have 2 ARs for target shooting and the reactive range is .22 only and I have a .22lr
>>64832146
he won his self defense case that involved an AR

>>64832159
paul shot a guy between the eyes with an AR

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Consider the following.
>can slap onto your favorite AR lower so you can use all the AR parts you want
>comes in a wide variety of lengths
>adapter removes with one screw to go back to normal AR mags
>takes Glock pattern mags
>can be had for about $500 with no 4473 shipped straight to your door (assuming you have an AR lower)
Why would you not?

>>64833740
>Why would you not?
cqr grip shows AR9 owners have no taste

>>64832159
But he did go to court after killing someone (in two cases) so he’s more experienced than either of us in that matter and I defer to that experience.
>>64833668
>he won his self defense case that involved an AR
Yes. And?

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>>64834938
I don't know what's gayer, putting hera on a gun or giving a shit some retard put hera on a gun
>>64833740
Way ahead of you potassium bromide, mine even pokes

>>64829336
>There really isn't any reason to believe a 5.56 has a special minimum "lethality" or barrier penetration spec that matters in a 3AM home intruder scenario.
Go look at hunting results and watch DGUs, retard.

>>64829761
>supers for home defense

My wife is short and light so she struggles with the weight of my rifles and staying on target for follow up shots even on something as forgiving as .308.
I'm not looking for an intermediate cartridge platform right now, so a 9mm pcc with suppressor gives her a little more gun than a nightstand pistol and puts it in a rifle form factor.