>>64833073
yeah

Nah

>>64833073
looks based but the government would probably overreach hard to stop shit like this

>>64833073
What's the point of the things that stick out on the top and on the back of the grip? Also, most phones are less than 9mm thick.

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>>64833073
It's literally a firearm. It was sold for years. The company went out of business. What a stupid fucking question.

>>64833115
there was also the folding glock gun but that also died.
a naa duct taped to the back of your balls would be better

>>64833073
Go post your agitprop somewhere else faggot

>>64833073
he's literally holding a normal phone and recording with it though so what's the point of your post?

Obviously the idea of a "disguised" gun has existed since practically the dawn of guns, and once we switched to self-contained cartridge systems a lot of experimentation became feasible and has happened over the many decades since. But disguise stuff kinda unavoidably compromises that actual gun aspects, they're much more awkward to shoot and control, often perform worse due to compromises in barrel length, etc etc. And of course it's instantly obvious it's a gun if you actually take it out. Since it's not a big deal to CC an actual gun disguise ones have never had much market success.
>>64833472
>he's literally holding a normal phone and recording with it though so what's the point of your post?
Yeah this too of course, though probably OP is just trying to "subtly" push some conspiracy faggotry about how his murder was actually ok. But to the extent disguise guns have ever been a thing it's mostly been in some insanely limited assassination role by spooks in the cold war and shit, not a civvie thing.

>>64833097
>Also, most phones are less than 9mm thick.
Mindless gatekeeping.

>>64833120
And so much more fun! owo!

>>64833097
>Also, most phones are less than 9mm thick.
In all seriousness, most phones these days are in cases, sometimes pretty damn thick cases. Additionally phones have gone pretty fucking in typical size, a lot of stuff going into "phablet" territory, and there are those foldable phones that are pretty thick too. A samsung Galaxy Fold is 161 x 63 x 17 mm when closed and 161 x 118 x 7 mm open for example. For comparison an LCP Max is 132 x 100 x 20mm.

So if we're taking this seriously, it'd probably be easier to design a better phone gun now in 2026 then in 2016 and still have it be in a size ballpark that wouldn't attract attention, simply because what people expect to see in size has increased so there is more room to play with. Particularly if using a lighter cartridge like 380. But I still don't see a market argument for it, vs just getting a holster that is the disguise for something more normal.

>>64834015
>A samsung Galaxy Fold is 161 x 63 x 17 mm when closed
Add in a case protector, ask me how I know.

>>64833472
>so what's the point
Finding some justification for bootlicking.

>>64834020
Oof. But also yeah, the rise of cases in part driven by how crazy fucking expensive big phones have gotten so people armor them up also means even more room to work with. Like, going over to an iphone if someone gets one of those otterboxes or something now it's 175 x 91 mm x 17 mm (6.9 x 3.6 x 0.66"), which is legit approaching or exceeding standard compact gun dimensions. Like a Walther PPS M2 is 160x111x25mm, a Ruger EC9s is only 152x114x22mm. Wild how fucking fat stuff is now.

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>>64833082
That's the ideal conceal IC9 or IC380, a real gun you can buy right now.
Turns out no one cares

>>64833073
Hold on...so it's a Derringer with a folding handle?Yeah, that's perfectly feasible. I'm pretty sure a variation of this already exists.
>>64833115
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_Conceal
This thing, right?

>>64833960
>OP is just trying to "subtly" push some conspiracy faggotry about how his murder was actually ok
I think it was a bad shoot but spics killing a jew doesn't bother me either

>>64834330
>but spics killing a jew doesn't bother me either
Anon, it should absolute not just bother you but seriously concern you when the spics in question are employed by the federal government and the jew is a US citizen engaging in constitutionally protected activity and then the federal government turns around and attacks the 2A afterwards. I mean sure, if it was some rando border shit whatever. But the circumstances matter. If a couple of rando browns attack us we can at least try to engage in self defense without concern. Might or might not work, but society has our back or at least we won't get in any real trouble. But if you defend yourself against feddies even if the feddies were criminals they will try hard (and probably succeed) at fucking you no matter what.

Don't want fed organizations developing institutional habits and precedent around shit like that. They're not all retards, they never START with sympathetic victims if they can help it, but they never STOP either until forced to. Any power the federal government gets under any circumstances is never ever returned to the people except via a lot of pain.

>>64833149
my God orange faggot supporters will literally post any psyop
i hope he hangs for his pedo actions with epstein

>>64833097
>What's the point of the things that stick out on the top and on the back of the grip?
grab points for unfolding it

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>>64833073
What happened?

>>64834839
I think it was a bad shoot and they'll pay for it eventually but I'd firehose every protestor down there myself if I had the choice.

t. the one who wears the boot

>>64834839
>in constitutionally protected activity
In a sane world, assaulting federal agents, impeding lawful activity of said agents, and intentionally trying to bait them into a response would not be "constitutionally protected" activities

t. James. The guy who made this gun came down to New Orleans and he is an absolute train wreck. We went out to dinner at Rum House when he came down (I think I bought). I wouldn;t remember him if I saw him, but I think of Milton from Office Space. I knew when I met him they were going out of business. First, he drove his camper down from, I think, Minnesota, to New Orleans and stayed at some RV park outside of town. He left his wife in the RV to film with me and - his idea - an actor. Because I wasn't asking for money (other than $500 for a camera guy), his splurge was a Daniel Craig James Bond impersonator he flew in from Florida because he wanted us to do some turbocringe James Bond reenactment where we save this promo model he also hired for the shoot. I had the idea to make it a little more fun/less gay and do drunk driving goggles instead and a good time was had by all. He apparently blew a bunch of money on trying to make a 9mm version (which SUCKED to shoot) and ended up outkicking his coverage and went out of business. Oh yeah that and he got a huge hospital bill because almost as soon as he gets back to MN, he runs into a deer, full speed, in a Honda Goldwing. Something about the visual of a chubby old man being flung from his boomer touring bike after hitting a large herbivore still gets me. Anyways, sad he went out of business because the .380 version is fun. I still have mine.

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>>64833073
Your bottom picture is an example of it being done.
Wasn't a good gun, and didn't sell well, so they went out of business.

>>64833082
I believe it would avoid being an AOW because you would need to unfold it into a 'pistol shape' like that to fire it. But otherwise, the $200 cost on AOWs just went away (and on SBRs, SBSs, Mufflers), so that stuff is a bit less restricted now.

>>64833960
>his murder
desu it feels more like manslaughter to me. Not a guy I'd miss and I want more deporations, but it looks like they fumbled handling him. They didn't communicate to each other properly, and they overreacted.
I do want to see what an investigation says though.

>>64834015
If you dressed it up to look like it was in a case, and then used like .30 Super Carry or .32 Auto to mak it a hair slimmer, it could look more convincing. I was gonna joke about going full #YOLO and make it .30 Carbine, just a roaring monster with keyholing bullets, but I don't know if you could make the chamber strong enough in that kind of space.

>>64834839
Look man, I think his shooting is pretty dubious looking, but if you go and fuck with feds when they're making an arrest, get in a shoving match in them, what do you think they'll do? Then they realize you have a gun, what are they gonna do then?

The end result here feels lacking, but he wasn't "just protesting," he did something pretty obviously stupid and dangerous, if they hadn't (probably negligently) shot him, they'd have booked him and he'd be awaiting trial. If he had just stood by the side holding a sign, and had a gun visible in a sling over his shoulder, he'd probably not have been even interacted with.

>and then the federal government turns around and attacks the 2A afterwards
Kash Patel is a fucking faggot and weasel, I agree with that.

>Don't want fed organizations developing institutional habits and precedent around shit like that. They're not all retards, they never START with sympathetic victims if they can help it, but they never STOP either until forced to. Any power the federal government gets under any circumstances is never ever returned to the people except via a lot of pain.
Basically true, but I don't buy the narrative that he WASN'T inviting himself to getting detained, it just went fucking wrong.

>>64835232
Entirely understandable.

>>64835237
Yeah, it's not like they grabbed him on random or shit, he went looking for a conflict.

>>64838157
Interesting. Pics of it? How's it like to shoot in .380?

>>64838193
>desu it feels more like manslaughter to me. Not a guy I'd miss and I want more deporations, but it looks like they fumbled handling him. They didn't communicate to each other properly, and they overreacted.
I do want to see what an investigation says though.
NTA, remember to yell at your congressman to get a body cams mandate moving, an officer's POV would have been of immense value here. If there's one thing we can draw out of MN, it's that ICE does not fucking train on street cop work, and that's probably a bad thing. Throw in the not illegal but still phenomenally unwise decision to bring your CCW into a situation where you ARE going to get your ass arrested and searched, and here we are.

>>64838478
>Throw in the not illegal but still phenomenally unwise decision to bring your CCW into a situation where you ARE going to get your ass arrested and searched, and here we are.
bootlicker

SHALL

>>64838518
You have the constitutional right to pick a fight with the cops while armed, that doesn't mean it isn't fucking retarded, anon. BTW the hoards of browns you're fighting fore as a lolbert will rape your daughters and steal your shit because they do not abide by the NAP.

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>>64833073
There's this one but there was also another one, I THINK it was made by Taurus that shot something like .380 but I can' t seem to find it now.

>>64838518
>recognizing cops are squirrely at the best of times and don't need much on their end to justify killing you is bootlicking
I guess I also bootlick for venomous snakes and bears

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>>64838535
Found it.

>>64838527
>rape daughters
Can you try that again without thinking about browns doing things to whote women please? Try not to be a walking talking caricature, my son

>>64838518
I have the right to walk into a bear's cave naked and slathered in honey. That doesn't make it something I'm going to do on general principle.

>>64838561
Why are you acting like it’s my fault they are responsible for most crimes? I didn’t make them rapey

>>64833073
Double barreled stealth derringer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derringer


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHmFUT9tEdg

>>64838193
>desu it feels more like manslaughter to me
A reasonable person should have known that he was not a threat at the moment he pulled the trigger the first time, the second time, the third time, the fourth time, the fifth time, the sixth time, the seventh time, the eighth time, the ninth time, or the tenth time. He no longer had a weapon. "I was scared" is not an excuse.

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>>64834839
>it's my constitutional right to plead for the destruction of this country
I implore you to get commit suicide by cop like that kike faggot

Notice how they backed off after this happened and how no one tries to drive into feds now? Regardless of what personal opinion is, violence solved the problem. The protesters are now complying with lawful orders and no one's getting shot.

>>64839338
>the destruction of this country

ya america would be way better off going the way of japan and slowly dying off due to no one having kids and no immigration. maybe we could balkanize too!

>>64839374
>We need infinity immigrants so number keeps going up
Fuck off you retarded boomer no one's buying that nonsense anymore. That's clearly not the case, all we've gotten is rising food prices, rising house prices, rising rent and lower wages.

>>64839384
the only food thats gone up in price is fast food.

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>>64839387
Are you a child? Do you not buy your own food? Are you just taken to Mickey D's by your Wrangler?

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>>64838518
Anon, it was really unnecessary (and maybe even criminal) that he was shot and killed, but if you go and try to shove feds engaging in an arrest, what the fuck do you think they're gonna do? Do you not think they'll react even worse if you've got a gun on you when you try to do that?
Alex Pretti is not without fault in this situation by any means, even if you think his killing was unjustified and criminal.

>>64839315
Could be that he's a retard with shit training who thought he was simply supposed to shoot many times just because, but I doubt it was pre-meditated or with malicious intent, I really think he was an idiot who got spooked and acted wrong.

>>64839338
He wasn't arguing for the immigration being good, though he was wrong for arguing that Pretti was merely just protesting, which he wasn't.

>>64839371
Silver lining. The faster and smoother the deportations go, the better.

>>64839374
Absurdly stupid (and maybe even malicious) opinion, America has MORE than enough genetic diversity in legal citizens, and in multiple ethnicities. There's tons of legal whites, blacks, asians, etc, from families who date back centuries in the nation's history.

Zoomers and millennials aren't gung-ho about having kids, but maybe that's because the economy, housing market and job market is really buttfucked and they don't feel they have good odds for a decent future.
You would have to be the biggest gigaretard to think that the American economy wouldn't be much better for all citizens without all the illegals taking up jobs, housing, and tax funding.

>>64833960
Given the practical range of a derringer you're better off with a knife

>>64839371
>violence solved the problem
The use of force was within guidance of policy and case law. You can have a "good shoot" of an unarmed suspect as long as all of the facts perceived by the officer before and at the time would have a reasonable officer believe that it was necessary to prevent grevious bodily harm.

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>>64839489
This is the biggest thing people don't realize in this case. The threat doesn't have to be real or your judgement correct, the standard is "could one reasonably believe that your life was under threat" and the answer is undoubtedly yes.

You're a cop who has been under constant death threats for the past month telling someone to get out of the car and standing next to it, suddenly this person puts the car in drive and lurches forward, contacting you, do you
A) Wait to find out if you are being actively crushed to death by the suspect's vehicle then open fire as your body is smashed
B) Fire, because they you reasonably believe this person is trying to kill you since they didn't shut the car off and put their hands up in response to having a cop with a gun yelling at them

>>64838246
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOQUtWG4BJE

>>64835237
And in that same world shootinga man pinned to the ground in the back ten times because his gun was taken from him prior is not a proportional response to the most unshocking and impermanent "obstruction" possible.

>>64839468
You're never better off with a knife. With good shot placement (heart, aorta, cns) a .25acp saturday night special drops someone where they stand. Doing this with a knife is far more difficult and requires a large enough knife. Now, before you start sperging at me like a parasitized chimp, that does not mean a person with a knife is not a major threat, they can definitely fatally wound you before you draw and fire and even a non fatal stab wound can be quite severe. It's just that once stabbed, even fatally, you're usually still a threat for some time. But a good gunshot drops you right there and is not difficult to pull off at shot range.

>>64839489
Yeah, but it's still a really bad look, and most likely the officers could have arrested him alive if they had communicated better with each other.

I don't wanna be all "Why didn't they just shoot him in the leg?" or shit, but they pretty much had him subdued.
The potential still exists that this was partially Sig's fault, but if the P320 actually ND'd in the officer's hand after he took it, he should have noticed and informed the others.
Maybe in the legal sense, this isn't manslaughter, but a procedural error which accidentally escalated the situation.

>>64839502
I actually think the dyke's shooting is looking pretty legally and morally defensible. Maybe not 100% water tight, but I would probably have reacted pretty similarly.

Nothing against dykes btw, one of my best friends is a dyke and she's cool.

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>>64839530
I don't even think the shooting of the retard with the gun at a riot was a "bad look" I find it completely expected. These are cops, cops aren't well trained, they aren't intelligent, they aren't nice people. Not only that these are hiring spree cops, the standards have no doubt been loosened and the training rushed. You show up to an event where a bunch of dumbass cops that aren't well trained are constantly being harassed, threatened and assaulted and get in their face with a gun on your hip? Yeah that ain't gonna end well. It's as predictable as the setting sun.

>>64839535
>boys will be boys!

fuck off. its the current admins fault that ICE mass hired a bunch of randos and gave them like a month of training before sending them out in the street. normal cops have more class than this.

>>64839535
It's pretty much as you say, but I feel it indicates that ICE's training should be made better somehow.
Not stopping deportation efforts, it has to continue, but that Alex Pretti should be used as an instructional example of "This could have been handled better, and here's how..."

I hope it's like anon says though, that this actually makes the liberal and commie protestors more restrained and cautious about interfering. Not that commie lives are high on my list of worries, but because incidents like these happening more could jeopardize continued deportation efforts.

>>64839544
In modt states the ICE agents dont have to play cop because the local police hand over illegals. ICE was never supposed to be used like they are, but thats the fault of local Democrats that ordered local cops to not work with ICE. The local politicians can stop this at any point.

>>64839544
And it's the former administration's fault that there's more illegals than ever in such a short span of time, creating the urgency of these conditions.
Like it or not, this is a pressing problem which needs to be handled, and speed is pretty important to an extent.

>>64839544
If you want to be a life is a disney movie retard that's your prerogative. Cops never have been and never will be your friend barney fife, and between the two of us I'm the one who isn't gonna get shot for chimping out because I recognize that fact.

>>64839547
>should be made better
Shit in one hand and wish in the other, see which fills up first. See above. Cops never have been and never will be your friend.

>>64839560
Cops are never perfect, but that doesn't mean that improvements aren't feasible.
Bodycams have been a good improvement, for instance.

>>64839547
>>64839544
>durrr ICE should be perfect human beings who can read your intentions telepathically! it's drumps fault!

You people are so tiresome with this retarded belief that all you have to do is give people some "education" and they'll be perfect little angels. I bet you think the rapefugees can be made honest productive citizens with pamphlets and classes by NGOs too.

>>64839569
I never said it was Trump's fault, I'm mainly blaming the one guy who shot Pretti for overreacting.

>>64833073
why not just shoot anyone who tries filiming ice or police, same for anyone suspected of open or concealed carry near ice or police, or who is in a car with a running engine near ice or police, or who has a dof near ICE or police, stop messing around and get on with it. Anyone who behaves in that way deserves to die. These are state operatives doing a difficult job and the disrespect for them is unacceptable. Those criticising them online should be identified and jailed or shot if they have phones or guns or dogs as domestic terrorists. Also ICE and Police should have their steroids paid for by their state health care insurance. They are not looked after well enough.

>>64839582
>reddit tier reduction to the absurd
Fuck off.

>>64839587
OP started it

>>64839374
Nah, America is going to be like Latin America, a large, uneducated, docile population of retards ruled by a corrupt government that is functionally a dictatorship while they all shit out babbies at 14 and continue to work in sweatshops while the elite of their country rob them blind.

>>64839569
>I bet you think the rapefugees can be made honest productive citizens with pamphlets and classes by NGOs too.
Actually, I think the only ones who have a likely chance for that immigrated legally and became citizens, and even then a lot of greencards ought to be scrutinized.

i think refugees are always going to act in their best interest because they grew up in a shithole country and it takes a while to get used to how non-shitholes operate, which is why they abuse the system as much as possible. reeeing at the brown hordes is such a low-IQ move because you simply end up using them as an explanation for why everything is bad.

>>64839621
>don't complain that illegals are abusing your system at your expense
>don't complain that corporations are hiring illegals at pays undercutting your opportunities to get a job
>don't complain that illegals are contributing to lowering wages for jobs
>don't complain that illegals are overrepresented in various crimes
Ok then.

>>64838193
>desu it feels more like manslaughter to me.
I'm not sure if you can really argue that you didn't intend to kill someone, if you shoot them. That's the distinction, right? Second degree murder is when you kill someone on purpose (but it wasn't premeditated), and voluntary manslaughter is when you intentionally hurt someone without meaning to kill, but they die of their injuries.
There obviously are such things as non-fatal gunshot wounds, but every time I've heard about the police "shooting to wound", it's in the context of how they don't do that, because that never works in court.

>>64839621
You're not presenting a good incentive for not opposing illegals.

>>64839626
>corporations are hiring illegals at pays undercutting your opportunities to get a job

were you planning on working as a roofer or a dishwasher?

>>64839637
Maybe? Should American citizens not do menial labor for some reason?
Is that a bad thing?

>>64839635
my point is that first generation immigrants or refugees are always going to be steeped in their home county's ways. short term it sucks but long term they adapt and assimilate with future generations.

>>64839643
That greatly fucking varies (see Somalians usually NEVER adapting or being productive), and it's a very fucking bad argument against enforcing control on illegals, or separating the wheat from the chaf from prospective legals.

You are fucking awful at making your case.

>>64839642
>Should American citizens not do menial labor for some reason?

no american wants to be paid minimum wage. no american wants to pay 50 dollars for a burger and fries because everyone behind the counter is making 25/hr.

>>64839649
>(see Somalians usually NEVER adapting or being productive)

lol fuck off. you didnt even know what a somalian was until a month ago. somalians make up like half the unarmed security and entry-level IT jobs in my city.

>>64839642
>Maybe? Should American citizens not do menial labor for some reason?
Because my ancestors worked their asses off to provide a better life for their descendants, culminating in me being an engineer.
Fuck dishwashing!

>>64839637
>immigrants can only be laborers
That's kinda racist bro.

>>64839650
What utter retardation. Do you not factor in the effect on housing prices, on medical care, on all gov't services, or more importantly, the dollar being worth more and people earning more money so they can spend more?

You're such a shortsighted fuckhead.

>>64839658
>anti-immigration guy claiming someone is short sighted

look at glorious nippon and tell me ethnostates are a good idea.

>>64839660
Japan is looking at upping its immigration in spite of rhetoric by the PM because it just makes financial sense. If you have a degree in Engineering or other specialty, you can get residency in Japan faster than any other first world nation already. It's honestly never been easier to move to Japan. The problem with Japan is its stagnant economy.

>>64839654
That means nobody else can do that? What about the people who don't have what it takes to be engineers? Or who plain don't want to? Or can settle for a menial job because maybe they are satisfied with it?

We should import slaves at the expense of our lower class because YOU don't feel confident enough in your ambitions and abilities? Kill yourself in real life.

>>64839660
America does not have their demographic problem, you smoothbrain, and theirs would NOT be solved by infinity Africans and Arabs.

>>64839669
>it just makes financial sense
Only in the short term and for their 1%, you're falling for the GDP meme. It will only be an expense for everyone else.

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>>64839660
>enforcing immigration control would make America a hecking ethnostate
Smartest immigration proponent.

>>64839675
>Only in the short term
Immigration is a long-term play.
>GDP meme
It's the only thing that matters.
>It will only be an expense
The opposite is true. An expanded supply of labor makes goods cheaper in the long run. Literally nobody who knows anything about economics agrees with you. If you want to have an ethnostate, you can have that opinion. What you can't do is claim that it has no downsides. It does, and the downside is both fiscal and macroeconomic. You have to pay for your policies somehow, and taking a hit on economic growth and fiscal solvency is how you pay for your particular policy.

>>64839685
>GDP is the only thing that matters.
Comically incorrect.

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>>64839685
>>GDP meme
>It's the only thing that matters.
How'd you get on 4chan, grandpa? Shouldn't you be on your facebook conservative politics group with the other boomers?

>>64839685
>Immigration is a long-term play.
Itnis absolutely NOT a long-term play, it is used to remedy low birth rates and increase the velocity of debt accumulation by importing grown adults who can immediately work and take on debt, versus encouraging making children which are economically useless for a decade or two and cannot take on debt

>>64839691
In the overall picture? Yeah, basically. The government can make small tweaks and things like establishing a minimum QOL, but mostly it should try to maximize economic output of its society. This is why America is the #1 economy in the world and Japan and China are not. This is why the average American can afford an $80000 Truck, a second car, maybe a third and a house that dwarfs the houses of most of the wealthy in other nations, and they can do this all on a blue collar job. If you're not making it in America, you're just not trying hard enough.

>>64839685
>you can only have an ethnostate or wide open borders
>GDP is reliably and precisely indicative of quality of life

inb4 the isolationist rhetoric starts

>>64839702
>you can only have an ethnostate or wide open borders
Nobody said open borders, just immigration. You can regulate that. The opposite of having any immigration is no immigration, so I assume you do want an ethnostate if that's the case. There's no reason not to take on skilled immigrants otherwise.

>>64839697
>encouraging making children

most women dont want kids because they are completely aware of what having kids means: 4-6 years of hell followed by 12+ years of worry.

>>64839719
Most people don't want kids without a secure financial base. This is why the only people super worried about making babby are childless, single, young men with no economic prospects or outright wealthy elites in movements like the quiverfull movement.

>>64839709
I never argued for an ethnostate (which would be realistically impossible for the U.S, do you have ANY idea how many different white, black, and asian phenotypes there are alone who have history going back centuries in America?), I argue that:
>Illegal immigration should not be tolerated and needs reinforcement for a multitude of reasons
>Legal immigration can not be allowed to be too permissive or at excess cost towards citizens (which it sometimes is)
>Citizens should ALWAYS take priority over foreigners
>The bottom line of big corporations cannot be used as a sole measurement of the economy or quality of life

>>64839719
Overstated problem. People are reluctant to have children because they know it has gotten much more difficult to provide adequately for them in today's ecomomy (which to a large degree can be attributed to illegal immigration and industrial offshoring).

>>64839735
>>Illegal immigration should not be tolerated
Agreed. A country needs to have control of its borders.
>Legal immigration can not be allowed to be too permissive
Depends. Some countries should have free movement, others not so much, and we should make it easy for professionals to move here.
>Citizens should ALWAYS take priority over foreigners
I don't think that's controversial, but it depends on what the priority is.
>The bottom line of big corporations cannot be used as a sole measurement of the economy or quality of life
And yet, it's the best predictor for wealth in a society.

>>64838518
You have the right to walk into a mangrove forest full of man eating tigers wearing a meat suit. Doesn't mean you aren't stupid for doing it.

>>64839767
Why are we pretending like cops are just dangerous animals and not people with agency and the ability to reason?

>>64839779
because its the only argument pro-ICE people have.

>>64833960
Nobody thinks this guy's death was "ok" situationally but I do think he fucked around and suffered the consequences, and in that scope blame can't be put on the offending officers without taking into consideration a realistic understanding of the chaos of situations like this.
At worst the shooter and maybe a CO should be investigated, reprimanded and retrained.

It isn't smart to fuck about with the cops especially when there are shootings, car rammings, and calls for violence against them.

>>64839709
>There's no reason not to take on skilled immigrants otherwise
That's the sticking point, because it isn't just the skilled immigrants but lots of unskilled labor that eats up low-level entry work that puts the native population out of work
>they can just become engineers
With what money from the job they don't have? How are they supposed to get hired if they have no experience beyond a degree while M'beke and Ganesh get all the job experience because the guys running the construction companies don't give a shit beyond getting to pay laborers less? What you're proposing is a return to the Confederate economy of landed elites, their slaves, and the free population being mostly poor and suffering from severe wealth inequality
>maybe just work harder
Doesn't matter if an immigrant can do the job for half the price and has no conception of worker's rights. No matter how you slice it, the practice is exploitative to both the natives and the immigrants. Really instead of spending a million dollars keeping them here, why not spend a million to make their country more livable and negate their reason to leave?
>but those places will always be a shithole
In that case why should we take on people incapable of running a functional society?
>>64839779
Because have you been using your eyes? Cops are and have always been thugs of the law that barely care about your wellbeing. Do I need to remind you of Acorn cop? Or You're fucked? Or the cop that magpumped an MP5 across a busy interstate? Or Uvalde? Boys in blue are just another gang as far as I'm concerned

>>64838478
>If there's one thing we can draw out of MN, it's that ICE does not fucking train on street cop work, and that's probably a bad thing.
There was massive expansion of the agency last year. Their budget was $9.6 billion in 2024 as compared to $28.7 billion in 2025. There are a lot of newbies on the force. It's worth pointing out that Pretti was killed by Border Patrol.

>>64839793
>That's the sticking point, because it isn't just the skilled immigrants but lots of unskilled labor
Okay, but I'm not arguing for the allowance of unskilled labor, though even that can be argued in the right circumstances. Currently America just needs more skilled professionals.
I will not be responding to the rest of your post, since you're obviously quoting someone else.

>>64839719
>putting up with a little bit of trouble and some lost sleep is literally hell
Typical antinatalist suicide cult member. My kids have made life a bit harder at times, but the love and happiness they give me most of the time is incomparable to anything I experienced in the 30 years I experienced before having them.

>>64839817
>Typical antinatalist suicide cult member.

what a normal thing to say to someone

>>64839821
You think having children is hell, you are a member of the anti-natalist movement and that is a suicide cult since you're killing off your lineage by not having kids. Loving and enjoying your children is literally built into your brain, you are evolved to love your children and feel joy from raising them. Denying this is highly abnormal, you are sick.

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>>64839834
You can't deport your way out of the third world mindset that is being fostered in America. To me, the two peoples are indistinguishable from each other in terms of character.

>>64839829
this nigga got bullied by neet virgins into nutting into the first 5/10 woman to say 'Yes'.

'muh lineage' ok man enjoy your generational immortality cope

>>64839851
>results to buzzwords and gibberish
You have received your L, incel.

>>64839787
You're quite disingenuous. It's fools colliding, one fool trying to interfere with a legal and entirely justified arrest, and the other fool reacted retardedly.

You literally cannot pretend that Alex Pretti had no part in creating that situation, he should have stood by the side.

>>64839821
You think being deathly afraid of having children is normal?

>>64839858
>pretending to not know common slang just to appear more adult
>this coming after accusing someone of being in a death cult because they said having children is stressful

>>64839719
This is a deluded and narrow mindset.

>>64839851
Do you feel content with your life?

>>64839719
Narcissistic mindset.

>>64839654
We have dishwashers now we dont need infinity browns for that.

>>64839882
how tf is that narccisistic?

>>64839907
Why is having a kid hell?

>>64839790
>Nobody thinks this guy's death was "ok" situationally
thread is literally full of maga /pol/troons who think this guy's death was ok anon jesus

>>64839915
constant work and putting up with a naturally selfish being who doesnt properly understand your feelings until theyre like 12 and wont appreciate what you've done for them until theyre 24

>>64839925
Sounds self centered.

>>64839851
>the first 5/10 woman
Please, tell me what a 5/10 human being is.
The women seem to think Elon Musk is a 10/10 because he's stupid rich and he picked a lispy talentless queer french canadian to have three kids with, among his many others.

>>64839924
Whats your opinion on Ashli Babbitts murder?

>>64839932
You realize that he didn't fuck any of them because his dick doesn't work, right? It's all IVF, and he paid them for it.

>>64839942
That's great I don't care answer the question.
You just lost a point and you started at 5/10 (you know, average)

>>64839948
I'm a different person, retard. Maybe get Musk's limp dick out of your mouth before you post.

>>64839933
Whats your opinion on Brian Sicknick's murder?
>>64839947
>anti-christ worshipper tries to pretend he's moral
Many such cases!

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>>64834839
nah

>>64839957
Who shot Brian?

>>64839963
It isn't the trannies currently making excuses for feds shooting an unarmed citizen in the back or asking people to carry their papers as citizens.

>>64839925
>doesnt properly understand your feelings
Are you a woman or a fag?

>>64839976
They cheered on Ashlis death though.

>>64839965
>Christ is King, say it.

what board do you think you're on lol. jesus you even made the guy with a kid stop talking out of fear of being associated with you.

>>64839986
>Refuses to say it

>>64839984
Yeah, and I wouldn't have been caught dead in that crowd because I respect the constitution. Sorry, but I'm not going to feel sorry for someone trying to stage a coup and failing badly.

>>64839990
And Im not gonna feel bad for Pretti larping as a revolutionary and dying for it.

>>64839993
This is a false equivalence. Pretti didn't do anything illegal.

>>64839989
yeah because im not religious and im not playing your dumb 'say it or i win' game.

>>64839955
3/10

>>64840012
sorry anon, different guyovich here, is your point that musk is not a 5/10 because he is the richest man in the world? also what does that have to do with nutting in a plain chick?

>>64839999
Why lie? He was impeding officers and caught on camera destroying federal property.

>>64839924
There's plenty, like me, who think it's very questionable.

>>64839993
I'm not gonna feel bad about him either, he seems like an idiot and a prick, but we nonetheless need to strive for a manner of consistency to police procedure and criminal justice, because it may need to be tested on us some day.

I don't plan to go and fuck with feds, but there's all kinds of ways to become suspected for crimes which you haven't actually done.

>>64839999
Getting in a scuffle with an officer isn't illegal? He literally had all the opportunity to not do what he did.

>>64840023
>He was impeding officers
Nah. He wasn't. An agent had to cross the street to assault a woman that they didn't even arrest.
>He was impeding officers and caught on camera destroying federal property.
Eleven days prior. You know, not something that is relevant.

>>64840039
Stop lying bud.

>>64840024
>Getting in a scuffle with an officer isn't illegal?
Not if the officer initiates the encounter for no reason, no. You'll notice that Pretti didn't go into a federal building, get warned not to do something, and then got shot for doing it. He was assaulted and shot in the back while disarmed.

>>64840039
>You know, not something that is relevant.

its all the dirt they have on him. he protested on more than one occasion and stayed in the know about ICE in his city which means he is an antifa terrorist.

>>64840042
Ashli was invited in. No one invited Pretti to get closer to feds

>>64839965
>>thinks Trump is the antichrist
>thinks he's not
>doesn't deny worshipping him
You Satanists just cannot help yourselves can you? The masks are fully off.
>Christ is King, say it.
Christ is King yes, but you saying it doesn't mean you feeling it and believing it in your heart, which you have fully closed off from the light. I sincerely hope you find your way back onto the true path again someday before you die.

>>64839925
You can't be older than 20.

>>64839976
You think it's unreasonable that people should maybe carry some ID on them when there are very widespread and high profile deportation efforts going on?

It sure isn't an ideal situation, but I think there's a pretty damn good excuse for it at the moment, and it's a very easy requirement for if you're worried about being detained by ICE.
You would get to prove them wrong and call them faggots to their faces.

>>64840044
>Ashli was invited in.
This isn't true, and in the video where she gets shot, she was crawling through a broken window. You don't have to break windows when you're invited, anon. You're lying, and you know it .

>>64840044
>Ashli was invited in

she was not invited into the main chamber. normally when a barricade is put up that means you are not allowed in. im pretty sure the guards were yelling that to her as she climbed over.

>>64840050
>You think it's unreasonable that people should maybe carry some ID on them when there are very widespread and high profile deportation efforts going on?
Yes. My fourth amendment rights trump the government's need to deport illegals, just like my second amendment rights trump da chilluns and wahmmans right to "feel safe." My rights come first, nigger (that was the first amendment too).

>>64840021
You're a fucking idiot. The only opinion I gave on a person was when I called grimes a trashy moron.

>>64840052
>>64840058
So she deserved to die because she ignored feds?

>>64839924
A thought occurs. Pretti wasn't killed by ICE. He was killed by Border Patrol who have regular shootouts with Cartel Narcos who usually don't make it into custody. The two CBP agents who killed him defaulted to how they would have dealt with a narco who was fighting them.

>>64840064
No, I think the feds should have beefed up presence more and used less lethal more liberally so as to disperse the crowd before this got out of hand. If the National Guard had been called in, she'd probably still be alive, but more than that, if she hadn't fallen for the retarded lies peddled to her, she'd still be alive.

>>64840068
So she was murdered wrongfully?

>>64840066
I have worked with BP in some of the roughest parts of the border. That's not only not true, but BP agents are mostly chill dudes, especially K9 dudes. Shootouts do happen, but they are rare, and these faggots were way out of line. There's no excuse for what they did. I've seen BP treat violent migrants better than that.

>>64840060
Then go shoot feds deporting illegals and see what happens

>>64839976
Minnesota law requires you to have ID when you are carrying a concealed firearm. It also requires that you avoid conflict.

>>64840064
she was shot because she was participating in an obviously illegal mobbing of the statehouse (which she drove across the whole fucking country to go to) over perceived election fraud and was rabidly trying to get to the senators hiding in the main chamber. do NOT try to make a ben shapiro tier 'gotcha' out of this.

>>64840070
She wasn't murdered, but I think a great evil was done to her by her President.

>>64839990
>someone trying to stage a coup
>300+ Federal agents present at Jan 6
Are you talking about the Fedsurrection, Anon?

>>64840076
>Then go shoot feds deporting illegals and see what happens
Did I say that's what should be done, or are you just following your NPC dialogue tree?

>>64840078
>Minnesota law requires you to have ID when you are carrying a concealed firearm. It also requires that you avoid conflict.
Not carrying ID is a fine not a criminal charge, and it's irrelevant because at no point was he asked to identify himself. He was just assaulted by nigger feds.

>>64840084
>300+ Federal agents present at Jan 6
Informants are not agents. Why are you lying?

>>64840082
Biden?

>>64840078
>Minnesota law requires you to have ID when you are carrying a concealed firearm

you are on /k/ right now defending feds for shooting a gun owner because he didnt have an ID i wonder what your opinons on law enforcement and ID were during covid.

>>64840080
So she deserved it like Pretti

>>64839999
>carrying concealed without ID
>interfering with Federal agents
>assaulting federal agents
>violated Minnesota's Duty to Retreat law
I'm sure there's more, but two and three are "go to Federal prison" offenses.

>>64840085
So you wont do shit but whine as the feds supposedly trample on your rights gotcha.

>>64840096
Biden wasn't the President on Jan 6th.

>>64840039
The woman was trying to "dearrest" the pedophile they were arresting.

>>64840101
>carrying concealed without ID
A fine, similar to a speeding ticket.
>interfering with Federal agents
Didn't happen.
>assaulting federal agents
Didn't happen.
>violated Minnesota's Duty to Retreat law
He had no chance of that while being held down and beaten in the face, before being murdered.

>>64840106
This is pathetic Im out, enjoy your cope.

>>64840110
>The woman was trying to "dearrest"
No, she wasn't. She was filming and screaming at the agents. That's not illegal.

>Its okay we when shoot you but not okay when we get shot
Thanks shitlibs very cool

>>64840110
>the pedophile

was the guy a pedophile or is that just the alt-right party line? like how pretti was a 'commie jew'

>>64840116
It's true, dipshit. He didn't become president until Jan 20, when he was sworn in.

>>64840060
You're assuming that it's unreasonable search and seizure, which it isn't under current circumstances (created by Obama and Biden), and you having the right to bear arms does not mean you get the right to interfere with arrests and getting in fights with LEO.
Pretti getting arrested is entirely within reason, that was not a violation of his constitutional rights.

>>64840115
What do you think Petti did exactly?

>>64840139
>You're assuming that it's unreasonable search and seizure
Asking someone for their papers at random is unreasonable search and seizure. You have to have reasonable suspicion, which they do not in most of these cases.
>having the right to bear arms does not mean you get the right to interfere
Great, Pretti didn't.
>What do you think Petti did exactly?
Filmed, yelled, and apparently tried to help a woman up that an agent shoved to the ground without any intention of effectuating an arrest, making it assault. Even in the case that I would grant you that Pretti might have interfered, it still does not excuse an agent, who having witnessed the removal of his firearm, still chose to shoot a man in the back while he was held on the ground.

>>64840168
>>asking for ID is unreasonable
Without reasonable suspicion it is, which is what I said, and it's telling that you chose to simply disregard that in favor of your NPC dialogue tree.
>Especially when you make contact with law enforcement and impede their duties.
Two things that did not happen in the Pretti case.

>>64840162
>ruby ridge and waco were """leftist tyranny"""

wasnt george sr. the president during both of those?

>>64840176
Bill Clinton had just taken office for Waco.

>>64840099
Pretti was a dumbass who got shot for being s dumbass. I can acknowledge that without defending Federal agents. I was responding to the fucktards saying he didn't break any laws.

>>64840115
Liar, liar, pants on fire.
>two women attempt to stop CBP from arresting convicted illegal rapist
>Feds pepper spray them and toss them in a snowbank
>Pretti: White Knight Powers Activate
>Pretti swoops in to gallantly start shoving the cops and generally getting handsy with Federal agents
>Pretti gets shoved to the ground, disarmed, shot full of holes
He died White Knighting for two women who would have never fucked hom anyway.

>>64840121
She put hands on them. Legally, she committed a felony. Getting pepper sprayed and tossed in a snow bank was essentially getting off with a warning.

>>64840126
He was officially listed as a "sex offender," so he might have been a garden verity rapist.

>>64840204
>two women attempt to stop CBP from arresting convicted illegal rapist
Didn't happen. I saw the video.
>Feds pepper spray them and toss them in a snowbank
Yes, and we saw the agent cross the street to do this.
>Pretti swoops in to gallantly start shoving the cops
This didn't happen. We saw the video.
>Pretti gets shoved to the ground, disarmed, shot full of holes
This is unacceptable, even if you hadn't been lying, and you know this, which is why you lie to make it more acceptable.

>>64840217
>She put hands on them. Legally, she committed a felony.
No, they shoved her first. This is why no arrest was made.

>>64840165
Pretti put hands on Federal agents performing their duties. I don't personally like it, but then I don't poke grizzly bears with short sticks, either.
>lookit, Luke
>he's showing his teeth
>take that, you damned grizzly bear

>>64840242
>Pretti put hands on Federal agents performing their duties
I saw the video. You're lying, and that's not going to change what happened.

>>64840230
Is that the video where the guy has the robot leg and no head?

>>64839681
whats the og pic

>>64839422
>doubt it was pre-meditated or with malicious intent
He killed him. Malicious intent is already established by the action. If you kill someone, you mean them harm. That's malicious. The only question is whether or not it was a legal use of force. "Malice" does not map to "mean," or whatever -- it is the intent to do harm. Similarly, premeditated does not mean you planned it out for a month. In many states, premeditation can be a moment or two. All that's required is a single decision point of intention. That's premeditation.

So, lastly: training. Again, it doesn't matter what he thought. If he "thought" he was supposed to dump a magazine every time he pulls the trigger, that is not an excuse. At every moment you pull the trigger, there needs to be a clear and present deadly threat to you or others. There needs to be a reasonable perception of a threat at every point you pull the trigger. At the point where officer anonymous first pulled the trigger, Pretti was:
>face down on the ground
>one officer was restraining each arm
>another was restraining his legs
>an empty holster was visible on his back -- EMPTY -- because another fucknut had just disarmed him
If you hear a gunshot in that circumstance, how could it reasonably be Pretti? Both hands restrained, face down, empty holster.

There is no reasonable threat there. The evidence is blindingly obvious.

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>>64840480
Dude, why post such bullshit.

>>64840653
No, people don't think that. However, we have an economic system that is built on endless growth because the majority of wealth is generated by investing (speculating). As soon as growth stagnates, investors lose their asses because if things aren't endlessly growing they make no return. We aren't seeing massive increases in productivity anymore so the only way to make line go up is to turn society into a pyramid scheme and keep population growth high. Since standard of living is inversely correlated with fertility rate, the system must import people to keep the population growth going. So who cares about the speculators? you may say, well they have the money so they control the political leadership of the nation.

>>64840480
NTA
>it is the intent to do harm. Similarly, premeditated does not mean you planned it out for a month. In many states, premeditation can be a moment or two. All that's required is a single decision point of intention. That's premeditation.
Excellent case of defeating your own argument. "a moment before" is not "in the moment". That's what distinguishes Voluntary Manslaughter from First-Degree Murder.
>If he "thought" he was supposed to dump a magazine every time he pulls the trigger, that is not an excuse
Once they have gone lethal, they get to keep shooting you until you stop moving. That might vary by jurisdiction, but that's the federal minimum. When it becomes a deadly force situation, the well-being of the guy getting shot takes a backseat to making him STOP.

>>64840632
Oh, jeez, I was just putting the moment itself in a black box and doing thousand-yard analysis, but yeah that seals it for me. His torso and hands are moving right towards a holster, add in the shooter's obstructed POV from being directly behind him, and yeah, I get it now.

>>64833073
I think they would have shot him earlier if they thought his phone was a gun.

>>64840725
Thanks for not reading my post and just knee jerk replying your stream of consciousness.

>>64840725
Just make sure you lose the war before the debris comes back down so you can pretend that noting bad was ever going to come of it.

>>64840653
> If anything the population of the US shouldn't exceed 175 million (only whites).

this nigga parroting opinions

>>64840745
Build another dam on a salt deposit, Ahmed, that'll show them!

>>64840745
The fact that your takeaway from my post is calling me a kike shows that you have subsaharan levels of reading comprehension.

>>64840003
Then you lose, gg faggot.

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>>64840888
I'd say the same of Browns, but I'll respec the trips.

>>64840888

>explain that immigration and growth are a scam
>get called jewish by someone whose reading skills are surpassed by the average somali
Another day on 4chan.

>>64839651
Somalia was not just some obscure topic until recently, the Europeans complain non-stop about them. The Dutch calculated that even 3rd gen Somalis on average each cost the Netherlands the equivalent of $1.100.000 per year, compared to the rough half million average net gain each of Europeans and Americans living in their country.

Not a suitable region to source immigrant workers from, as they do not work, and they do not integrate.

>>64840674
>Since standard of living is inversely correlated with fertility rate
That's debatable.

>>64838478
If the investigation is like any fed investigation…nothing will happen. On top of that, the DOJ is actually backlogged on cases because main effort is dealing with ICE operations and local courts dealing with ICE and Border Patrol bungling some of their operations. Some of it is fluff but they detained one guy and moved him to a detention facility under a “T” visa, which more or less means he’s in witness protection here for helping out the DOJ with an investigation. The DOJ attorneys are also not getting response from DHS who are acting like they’re cowboys wrangling (and wrastlin’) a herd. Keep in mind because of this “national security” pivot to the border we’ve pulled resources from the rest of our national security infrastructure including: cyber, counter intel, port security, trafficking (both people and drugs), and whatever else is deemed detracting from the main effort. A lot of criminal prosecutions have also been delayed due to the shenanigans DHS is committing and the push to declassify all the Epstein files.

In short, this feels less like a national security issue and more just a political play that ultimately makes for good television. Half the population gets their panties in a bunch, the other half just gets them soaked. All at the expense of our justice department actually working on cases and our national security net being exposed. Oh, and to dunk on libertarians by expanding government powers.