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Which is better?

Mormonism is insane. Someone post that cartoon the Mormon cartoon where they discuss their interplanetary polytheism.

>>25050465
Fucked that up, but its still somehow more coherent than Mormon theology

>>24970709
>>25050465

>I think Joseph Smith was insane. I think he had some sort of mental episode that put the Book of Mormon together. I don't think he was just shitting, I think he was genuinely crazy, and reading the book only confirms this.
No idea where this thought comes from.

>>25050465
>polytheism
That's like saying Jesus was polytheist for saying "Ye are gods"

>>25050475
>some sort of mental episode
That's what the Jews say about Jesus.

>>25050475
>reading the book
Something that /lit/ would never actually do

based

>>25050469
>Mormon theology
I don't see an issue.

>>25050343
Is it true that Mormons worship some random scrap of papyrus that Joseph Smith had a schizo meltdown about and made up a translation for, then when hieroglyphics were decoded it turned out to be something completely different and fairly inane? How do you reconcile that?

>>25051280
>hieroglyphics were decoded
source?

>>25051280
>How do you reconcile that?
End of thread 2 has the answers.

>>25051286
I read it and you got BTFO by some random guy and tried to defend your cult by pointing out that he only got the entire translation apart from 1% completely incorrect, which seems quite embarrassing to me

>>25051306
>you got BTFO
I was there, didn't happen.

>>25051306
>pointing out that he only got the entire translation apart from 1% completely incorrect
Dumbass

>>25051306
>quite embarrassing
You talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded. Also
>your cult
Imagine if I gave a fuck that some people think Mormonism manipulates and brainwashes people. You'd have to be totally won over to licking Satan's bootheels to recuse yourself from actual engagement. Total reddit cowardice. Sad!

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For the benefit of others interested, here's the entire rather strange and embarrassing evidence. Unfortunately cult leaders are not particularly intelligent or forward thinking people in the main, and Smith apparently didn't realise that his followers would have to make themselves look retarded on the internet defending his inane snake oil ramblings centuries later.

>>25050465
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3BqLZ8UoZk&t=32
>>25050478
Its nothing like that

>>25051319
Quit reposting the same shit from thread 2 linked in OP if you're unwilling to engage with criticism.

>>25051322
Thread 2 linked in the OP features you completely ignoring that image though

>>25051320
>nothing like that
How so? You gonna pull something out of the Bible to prove Jesus is wrong? Twist the word of God against itself? You deserve the same fate of the Jews: 2000 years of being completely wrong!

>>25051323
FALSE! I recall pointing out how the part people say looks fake, the bird head, was actually weirdly jutted even in the papyrus we have today. Of course it would take an ounce of independent thinking in order to investigate the claim for onesself. Go do something else, I don't care about you, nobody will save you if you bury your head in the sand and refuse to accept criticism.

>>25051318
>Imagine if I gave a fuck that some people think Mormonism manipulates and brainwashes people. You'd have to be totally won over to licking Satan's bootheels to recuse yourself from actual engagement. Total reddit cowardice. Sad!
Actually you're dangerously low IQ, so the best case scenario for you is being coddled by a cult like Mormonism to be honest

Too many fucking Anti-mormon shills self-refuting and not caring about it. Imagine being so wrong you aren't even willing to do something about it, and calling it a virtue. That is what makes homosexuals and anti-mormons basically the same.

>>25051326
1) That's totally untrue
2) You've managed to completely ignore all of the hilariously wrong translations detailed at length

>>25051327
>dangerously low IQ
Atleast I'm not going around issuing false statements like some libshit fuckass. Fuck you retard you couldn't pay me to wipe your ass. You're fired!

>>25051330
>That's totally untrue
Read the thread moron!
>completely ignore
Where have I not been forthcoming to the absolute?

>>25051327
>dangerous
cringe. Go back!!!!

>>25051319
>cult leaders are not particularly intelligent or forward thinking people
100% of liars are debunked in the timeframe that Smith's testimony has stood as true. Listen: HE DIDN'T MAKE A CULT! He acted like a completely open and honest and genuine person, and clears up the fact that inspiration of God is only ever attainable by true and honest people. Whatever denomination you are a part of denies the Holy Ghost and wisdom!

>>25051319
>inane
t. didnotread (and thinks it's excusable)

>>25051306
>some random guy
Some random guy got BTFO again ITT.

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>>25050343
calling all missionaries

>>25051682
?

This site desperately needs IP counters again. I'm pretty sure most replies in these threads are just the one schizophrenic dude who thinks the Book of Mormon took place in Ethiopia replying to the same person multiple times.
I also think it's not worth responding to the dude at all because he will never change his mind and has nothing interesting to say besides.

>>25052742
Yo thanks for the bumps

>>25050451
Important to read the original formatting every once in a while.
Modern chapter/verse format is necessary for a lot of reasons but tricks you into thinking its all parts and no wholes.

>>25050478
If you ask a mormon, "is there one god, or many gods?" what will he answer?

>>25053280
One God many gods.

>>25052742
Threads have been active multiple users defending Mormonism t. peak Mormon poster

>>25053252
Book of Mormon is most fun to pick a few verses from just for their own sake and refer back to.

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>>25052742

>>25053493
This distinction seems very arbitrary if it classifies the god who created the Mormon God as a lesser god than him.

>>25053753
One divinity, deity, essence; many spirits breathed life and intelligence and given agency from that one.

>>25050451
Pocket edition

>>25051320
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3BqLZ8UoZk

Damn Mormonism is way, way, waaaay more crazier than I thought. There's nothing Christian about them.

>>25055365
Yeah its polytheism cranked up to 10,000

>>25055367
Pantheism =! polytheism = paganism.

>>25055367
With intergalactic space sex and we wuz hebrews added

>>25055368
I wasn't incorrect. You don't look cool by responding like this.

>>25055365
>nothing Christian
Ye are gods
- Jesus Christ

>>25055372
Pantheism is monotheistic, which is better than the tritheistic Arianism most Christians profess. And =! means does not equal

>>25055377
I don't know why you keep replying to me. My post wasn't incorrect. Polytheism is many gods. Mormonism believe there are many gods. Nobody is talking about which is better.

>>25055372
>You don't look cool
Edit: Thank's for the gold, kind stranger 8D

>>25055380
>Polytheism is many gods.
Many divinities, which is pagan, like pseudoChristian tritheism, which is separate from monotheistic pantheism, which is Christian monotheism.

>>25055383
Okay, I'm just gonna hide your posts and replies now.

>>25055376
Ok, you have one verse supporting polytheism, we'll ignore many others that teach in a single God..

But where does the Jesus and Satan were brothers and come from another planet doctrine come from?

>>25055386
>where does the Jesus and Satan were brothers and come from another planet doctrine come from?
Probably that meme cartoon you think is real.

>>25055385
I accept your concession.

>>25055386
>polytheism
PANTHEISM: all creatures being breathed life of the breath of God.

>>25055380
>My post wasn't incorrect.
>gonna hide your posts when you correct me
Many such cases.

>>25055396
Polytheism and monotheism are a binary, pantheism is just a variant of polytheism, I don't know why youre belaboring this point

>>25055400
Because I understand what you don't. Pantheism has one divine nature/essence.

>>25055400
>belaboring
You're the one repeating the same foolishness

>>25055402
I think the othrr poster and I understand the distinction you're making, it's just irrelevant to Christian orthodoxy. Pantheism is just as anti-Christian.

>>25055405
>Pantheism is just as anti-Christian.
Not if it abides 100% by the first commandment. Which cohere's to Jesus's teaching (ye are gods).

>>25055405
>Christian orthodoxy
Christian orthodoxy is we can become the children of God, and Jesus is divine in essence.

>>25055409
It's not a separate deity/divinity in Jesus beit that he is a separate person from God. There are other (false) gods referenced in the Bible, that doesn't mean the Bible teaches anything but pure monotheistic faith.

>>25055406
>>25055406
How do you guys interpret John 17:3? Simply Christ declaring a hierarchical structure to universal Godhood? Sounds crazy to me. Also the whole golden sacred tablets being dug up in America, but that's a whole other thing.

>>25055415
>Christ declaring a hierarchical structure to universal Godhood?
That'd be hard for me to milk out of that verse in particular

>>25055419
Well.. what's the Mormon interpretation of.it? Its in opposition to the claim that Christ taught "pantheism"

>>25055415
>golden sacred tablets
It's an admittedly obscure claim that makes sense if you read it. The book has bits of wisdom in it that are alien not only to Joseph Smith but don't make sense coming from 19th century Americans. Also if you read the threads I would argue that Beta Israel is the only legitimate contender to be the place where ancient Jews migrated and separated from their brethren. It's the #1 objection to Mormonism, that America makes zero sense, and I agree, which is why I had such a hard time trying to figure out why everything else about it had the ring of truth. Never expected geography theories to be the answer actually.

>>25055421
The God vs "gods" distinction is key. Nobody says others are comparable to God.

>>25055415
>tablets
Plates being comparable to the scroll of Lamentations from the beginning of Ezekiel, representing stored divine intelligence given to a prophet, is the nearest comparison I know of.

>>25055415
One could say, using one's agency to seek God's will, brings one along the path of exaltation and better things to reign over. So there's something of an increase.

I'm gonna watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XbJ3954HW8

>>25055434
God is no respecter of persons, so Mormons are given over to being as wrong as other denominations, and generally represent Joseph Smith rather poorly. They have about as much of a beam in their eyes as anybody else, for starters in trying to coerce the plates not to have been from Africa, and to be originally from America. Here is an interesting coincidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroni,_Comoros

>>25055434
Looks like a good rec anyway, before all the theology grifters plague.

>>25055434
btw I like John Calvin a lot

>>25055446
To elaborate: John Calvin according to John Calvin, not Calvinism according to moderns.

What I'm saying is buy the institutes https://www.amazon.com/Institutes-Christian-Religion-John-Calvin/dp/1598561685/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=33P7150M9VEZ5&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.d9X1nZfLb9NTsz7IjCmEGIv79RR6riAeyW_7dAZQnqtj7Ng5lE24mBeSP2uiskeA5tufszw0W1oEWdB-EYVSLwJMyHRnCD2cM5W3PFOEpXrL_aAyAbrRRs8Ti8eoYVTIKz7Sya503hFAQF1JWa1y2s_CeeAR4Za72Eil9YV2Wr7Om3hnxRgkw6_jBelYX3wEU4guhr-4vvIASwCh2iv6wQ.uCuzLFBA6OjY_o2G04bFAql-9t0cjD0Ai6pqf3QumhQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=calvin+institutes&qid=1769764140&s=books&sprefix=calvin+institutes%2Cbooks%2C145&sr=1-1

>>25055446
Hope for you yet

>>25055474
If you ever want to hear Joseph Smith firsthand, not the BoM or Abraham translations, go for this short history https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng And his own revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants first.

>>25050343
This man died and went to hell. People think the false prophet he saw was Joseph Smith. The demonic angel is Moroni. Mormonism is a cult. You will die in your sins and be condemned to hell if you believe in that false prophet instead of Jesus Christ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlXO0BtWbFY

>>25055497
>Joseph Smith is: le BAD!
>source: Christian Rap Artist

>>25055515
>ad hominem
>no argument
I mean, I suppose. Did you even watch the video?

>>25055497
>People think
So the guy doesn't even attest this?

>>25055518
Exposit the video's point

>>25055434
>42:48
Interesting piece about whether the trinity is biblically sound.

>>25050475
It's from people who don't want to try to understand what it teaches. Don't worry. they do the same thing with the Bible.

>>25055477
>>25055451
People generally just assume the people with positions to talk know what they're talking about, and take on contentions of others made on behalf of authors who don't actually have such a position anyway. It's strange.

>>25052742
There are dozens of us!!!

>>25051327
>coddled
Lol.

>>25050343
The Bible says that Timothy and Titus were appointed shepherds. Did they do that successfully?

>>25051318
>Imagine if I gave a ... that some people think Mormonism manipulates and brainwashes people.
Hold on, I'm imagining it right now. Is it hard knowing others know the Truth about your cult? I would imagine so. In fact, well, I don't even need to imagine!

>>25055599
>the Bible.
Da Bible??? Da magic word of God retranscribed by angels for millenia and then magically polygamy superman came along and suddenly we figured out that those scribes were actually like super villains in disguise?!?!?! I'm so glad Mormonism came along. What would Catholicism do without it? What would a body do without cancer? What would the Truth do without lies? Oh, wait, oh no, Mormonism isn't necessary for salvation! Thank you, God!

>>25051345
>HE DIDN'T MAKE A CULT!
Great! Oh no, watch out, an angel is speaking to me. How many of your sisters can I marry before you claim it's a cult? Two? Ten??? Goly gee, let's see!

Mormons deny the trinity, deny that Eve sinned when she disobeyed God by eating the forbidden fruit, and don't even allow you to drink coffee or smoke a pipe. Whackest cult ever.

>>25055898
>What would Catholicism do without it?
Probably schism half the church away from it by being a bad organization.

>>25055546
You can ask Youtube AI to summarize the video.
First Section - Religious People (5:41-7:27): Cody saw people chained and screaming, who professed to be Christians but lacked a personal relationship with Jesus, relying on works rather than faith. He felt their thoughts and feelings instantly downloaded into his mind.
Second Section - Sexual Perversion (10:02-13:23): He was shown a vast, dark dome filled with billions of zombie-like people reliving their sexual perversions in a loop. Cody experienced the torment of one such individual, emphasizing the hopelessness and understanding of God's view on sin in this place.
Third Section - False Prophets (15:57-30:00): Cody was led to a beautiful, castle-like structure that contained jail cells. Here, he encountered a false prophet from the 1800s, who he later identified as Joseph Smith (32:36). Cody entered this prophet's experience, seeing him preach to a crowd in hell, his message now revealed as a lie, causing immense despair for both the prophet and his followers, including his family.
Cody describes the experience as intensely real and terrifying, leading to PTSD (14:41-15:18). He was eventually pulled out of hell by Jesus (30:45-31:10) and returned to his body, with the four-hour real-time experience feeling like four days (31:31-31:47). Cody concludes by emphasizing the importance of knowing Jesus as Lord and Savior to avoid such a fate (34:53-35:12).
>>25055531
Not in the first interview, he later came to know about Joseph Smith and thinks that it was Joseph whom he saw.
Here is another NDE of hell from a different person: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGZbvgk4w_Q

>>25056245
>lacked a personal relationship with Jesus, relying on works rather than faith
Mormonism is purely faith-based

>>25055898
How is Mormonism cancer?

>>25055898
Catholics actually suppressed the Bible for centuries from being translated into languages people could read, in stead promulgating Catholic cult doctrine. Sounds like the real cancer is in your head.

>>25055885
Yes, because they didn't try to force Catholicism on anybody, preferring instead to preach the Gospel of faith-based salvation. You should look into it sometime, it's what your parasitic cult has to try to usurp to claim legitimacy.

>>25056156
>is splinter cell
>splinters bad
Every time!
>>25056308
>The Douay–Rheims Bible (/ˌduːeJ ˈriːmz, ˌdaʊeJ -/,[1] US also /duːˌeJ -/), also known as the Douay–Rheims Version, Rheims–Douai Bible or Douai Bible, and abbreviated as D–R, DRB, and DRV, is a translation of the Bible from the Latin Vulgate into Early Modern English by members of the English College, Douai as a Counter-Reformation effort.[2] The New Testament portion was published in Rheims, France, in 1582,
>The King James Version (KJV), also referred to as the King James Bible (KJB) and the Authorized Version, is an Early Modern English translation of the Christian Bible for the Church of England, which was commissioned in 1604 and published in 1611, by sponsorship of King James VI and I.[d] The 80 books of the KJV include 39 books of the Old Testament, 14 books of Apocrypha, and the 27 books of the New Testament.[4]
Is Mark 16:9–20 is in your "Bible"? When was it written?
>>25056308
Cancers are deformed forms of their original cells that seek to kill their host. Mormonism, like all heresies, is a cancer that will eventually be cut out.
>>25056318
>Yes, because they didn't try to force Catholicism on anybody, preferring instead to preach the Gospel of faith-based salvation.
So you can determine who is legitimate or not? Who told you that you could do that? Is the Council of Jerusalem still binding? Where are your councils? Why did you not believe in Church Councils? Did Acts lie?
>it's what my parasitic cult has to try to usurp to claim legitimacy.
Look! It's fixed!

>>25056800
>Who told you that you could do that?
God did when he said judge anything by its fruits. The fruits of Catholicism are cancer and schism, and trad-caths are pathetically resorting to trying (and failing) to overcome Mormonism of all things ITT and elsewhere, because they are unilaterally defeated on all disagreements with every other sect of Christianity.
>parasitic
There is no parasitism nearly as bad as the sale of indulgences in any other Christian denomination.

>>25056800
>Cancers are deformed forms of their original cells that seek to kill their host.
So if the original church deformed into an organization without any Apostolic authority and without any witness from the Holy Ghost to the believers (like Jehovah's Witnesses) and with a number of accumulated features not original to the church like mandatory priestly celibacy and other such nonsense, it would be cancer, correct?

>>25057528
>unilaterally defeated on all disagreements with every other sect of Christianity.
Are these sects unified? Why not?
>There is no parasitism nearly as bad as the sale of indulgences in any other Christian denomination.
I would argue lying is far worse.
>>25057530
That is absolutely and totally correct in the limited sense and not with your examples. The issue is that you've totally and perfectly articulated the issue and not not the issue with how you understand the problem. Either Christ's promises were a lie, inaccurate, or inadequate if the Catholic Church failed or He is not a liar or deceived. The issue you are thinking about is that a "dark miracle" or a "miracle of evil" occurred whereby the Church was "inherently corrupted and some point by something magical, massive, sudden, and mystical but yet you cannot name it or specify it. This is because you are on the outside looking in. Read Newman's Development of Christian Doctrine if you want a better theology of this but pure corruption means that an institution does out eventually die out. See Lutheranism as a distinct denomination is dying out if not dead like Arianism. Religious sects are true in so far as they acknowledge Jesus Christ, i.e. why Muslims are sustained, but they die, fade, and corrupt in so far as they are not in Communion with Catholicism or Jesus's intended Church on earth.

>>25058034
If you can say the Catholics aren't lying about indulgences how can you say Mormons are lying about their claims?>>25058034
>the Church was "inherently corrupted and some point by something magical, massive, sudden, and mystical but yet you cannot name it or specify it
The same thing happened that happened to the Aaronic priesthood. Man is incapable to coerce God to support man's institutions.

>>25058034
>you are on the outside
>looking in
Nobody looks to Catholicism as an example for anything Biblical Christianity related. Not one single aspect of Roman Catholicism that is unique to it is good. Everybody else prefers small denominations to it because Roman Catholicism repeats all the errors of every denomination combined and adds an equal portion its own.

>>25056800
>Is the Council of Jerusalem still binding?
What is it supposed to do to bind? I thought it was to loosen.
>So you can determine who is legitimate or not? Who told you that you could do that?
Catholic arguments fall apart when individuals get to choose to follow Jesus in stead.

>>25058234
>What is it supposed to do to bind? I thought it was to loosen.
Can Mormons eat strangled animals? What about blood? Why is that not authoritative or is it?

>>25058332
What is your point? You don't seem interested in debate desu.

Catholic arguments are always quantity over quality.

>>25058351
The point is you cannot answer these questions and you don't know why.
>but I follow Jesus
Do you? If an angel told you that Mormonism was a lie would you abandon your whole fall? Those who look back from the plow.
>>25058215
>Nobody looks to Catholicism as an example for anything Biblical Christianity related.
This is obviously untrue unless you think such a thing as "Bliblical Christianity" exists when Christianity isn't a book club. Why did Jesus not write anything?
>Not one single aspect of Roman Catholicism that is unique to it is good.
Eating Jesus would be unique and pretty good, right?
>Everybody else prefers small denominations to it because Roman Catholicism repeats all the errors of every denomination combined and adds an equal portion its own.
>repeats all the errors of every denomination combined
Like what? All the other "denominations" are just theological protestors.
>>25058198
>If you can say the Catholics aren't lying about indulgences
Can you buy indulgences now? If the LDS church ever sold indulgences (given it's man-made then it is fallible so it could), would you leave it?
>Man is incapable to coerce God to support man's institutions.
Correct! That's why He founded a Church!

>>25058736
>The point is you cannot answer these questions and you don't know why.
If anyone believes I could not answer such a stupid question as
>Can Mormons eat strangled animals? What about blood? Why is that not authoritative or is it?
They are freely given over to your side of the non-argument.

>>25058778
What's the answer?

>>25058782
see
>>25058234

Can you draw a straight line from Joseph Smith Jun. to why Brigham Young should have been the successor?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY3lWdjQF8g

y'all got a response to dis?

>>25050465
Mormonism is insane but not really any more insane than any other religion. If you think mainstream Christianity is less insane it's just because it has been much more normalized

>>25055952
There must be something to it since they tend to be hyper

>>25058788
What is the answer to a yes or no question? Is it a sin for mormons to eat meat from strangled animals? What about their blood? It is not a sin for Catholics. Is it for Mormons?
>it was to loosen
It's clearly not their intent. What is written and how do you read it? Why can you not answer yes or no? Is that all man should say? You have read Sermon on the Mount, haven't you?

>>25059469
>If you think mainstream Christianity is less insane it's just because it has been much more normalized
Christianity is scandalous and not insane. Candidly, being a Christian and listening or reading to non-Christians try to reason about morals is genuinely gut-wrenchingly embarrassing. They either are obviously confused, indifferent, or genuinely want abortion and sodomy to be the new rite of passage or something. However, I think I would accept anyone willing to live the Sermom on the Mount regardless of their trinitarian theology.

>>25059638
This isn't r/catholicism.

>>25059649
Just as Jesus said the whole Old Testament hangs on Love God and Love thy neighbor as thyself, Joseph Smith teaches that the whole Bible hangs on Matthew 7:2.

>>25060106
Why are you not answering the question? Can you? Can mormons? Acts seems to say that it's a sin to eat the meat of strangled animals. Is it?
>>25060117
Not everything Smith said was totally wrong. But, he did promulgate major errors (against celibacy, infant Baptism, non-trinity, and saying original sin).

The only thing interesting about Mormons this week is the stuff about using their blood for rituals that came out in the Epstein files the other day, lol.

>>25059649
I've read the whole Bible, it has plenty of insane things in it, and yes the premise of God having to make a blood sacrifice of his divine son to save his creation from his wrath is an insane premise

>>25060258
>he did promulgate major errors
>against celibacy
Default position in a Protestant context
>against infant Baptism
Default position in a Protestant context
>non-trinity
He never said the trinity was false. His explanation of the godhead is the best 1:1 recreation of how trinitarianism is actually defined in Latin and how the Nicene creed defines it in Greek.
>against original sin
Where is the error?

>>25060522
>didn't answer question again
>Portestants believe it so it's okay
Protestants are heretics. They are theologically in grave error.
>Where is the error?
Mormons deny hereditary original sin but somehow blacks have hereditary sins accumulated. Did Genesis lie? What did blacks do that was so bad? Why did they get so lucky they can be priests now? Did God figure out that melanin isn't a curse? Can they whip themselves a ton to pay off the curse? Do blacks need to double tithe but whites only normal tithe?
>>25060352
Do you denounce the morals and ethic espoused in the Sermon on the Mount?

>>25050465
yeah white people getting married and having babies. crazy.

>>25061309
>Mormons deny hereditary original sin but somehow blacks have hereditary sins
Blacks are not guilty due to Cain just as man is not guilty due to Adam.

>>25062180
Green text my previous post and answer each individual question. Relying on incorrect statements in bland analogies is not an interaction but religious sloganeering.

>>25061309
>Protestants are heretics
How so?

>>25062299
What's your point?

>>25062313
Do you actually not understand why you need to answer questions when you "evangelize"?

>>25062299
>Relying on incorrect statements in bland analogies is not an interaction but religious sloganeering
.

>>25062354
What's your point?

>>25062354
>Do you actually not understand why you need to answer questions
>>25062303
>>25062313
>>25062357

>>25050343
If the Book of Mormon is supposed to be from Africa then how do you explain 1 Nephi 13? It seems to refer to both Christopher Columbus and the American Revolution. Wouldn't that be anachronistic as well for the Book of Mormon to have that?

>>25062357
Mormonism is a lie and you cannot answer logically related questions because to do so would be to admit it's a lie.

>>25062522
What question is unanswered?

>>25062522
Non-catholics already presuppose the catholic church is not authoritative to bind other denoms.

>>25062531
>Non-catholics already presuppose the catholic church is not authoritative to bind other denoms.
>people who are wrong are wrong
Great!
>>25062526
>What did blacks do that was so bad? Why did they get so lucky they can be priests now? Did God figure out that melanin isn't a curse? Can they whip themselves a ton to pay off the curse? Do blacks need to double tithe but whites only normal tithe?
Seriously, do blacks have to do more work to pay off their generational curse? If yes, how much?

>>25062535
see
>>25062180

>>25062540
Did the LDS church used to teach that? How could you get it that wrong?

>>25062535
>people who are wrong are wrong
What do you have against Protestants and other non-Catholics in terms of evidence?

>>25062546
Bearing a curse is not the same as bearing the guilt of the reason for being cursed. We don't bear guilt for Adam's transgression, we only have to deal with the consequences of it.

>>25062480
Melekin says the promise land does refer to America and the man who traveled was himself. I do not necessarily agree with that interpretation, seeing Zhuang He in stead of Columbus as reasonable. As for the conflict I think it can refer to the protestant nations including England separating from Catholic dominance under say Charles V.

>>25062547
>What do you have against Protestants and other non-Catholics in terms of evidence?
>And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and every infirmity. When he saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; pray therefore the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.”
>And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity. The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb′edee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
>>25062552
>Did the LDS church used to teach that? How could you get it that wrong?
>Bearing a curse is not the same as bearing the guilt of the reason for being cursed. We don't bear guilt for Adam's transgression, we only have to deal with the consequences of it.
Where did I say Adam? Where did I mention guilt? Let me show you how to answer questions:
>Did the LDS church used to teach that?
Yes.
>How could you get it that wrong?
Mormonism is a fake religion made by a fake prophet that requires believing falsehoods and will necessarily generate falsehoods as a result. Blacks are, have been, and will always be perfectly equal to whites in all cases. They do not have generational curses that are exceptional nor did they ever. If you break one of the laws you break them all. If you commit heresy your mind is open season for the devil.

>>25062576
>Where did I say Adam?
here:
>>25060258

>>25062576
>The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few
>pray therefore the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.”
If only the Catholic Church wasn't like the Jewish priestood in that day, unprofitable servants.

>>25062576
>Did the LDS church used to teach that?
see
>>25062180
Now I don't have to answer the other question, because it depends on getting a different answer to the previous one.

>>25062586
Is the word Adam in that post? No. Is original receiving Adam's personal guilt? No. Does the consequences of original sin require Baptism to be washed away? Yes. Is that consequence transmitted through procreation? Yes.

>>25062576
If you think you know the answers already why bother even asking the questions? Why not just post your opinion at the outset?

>>25062593
Which bishop of Rome was the last legitimate pope? As soon as Smith was born? When he first heard an "angel"?>>25062597
The answer was Yes. Repent.

>>25062600
Then where do you disagree with Joseph Smith (per >>25060258)

>>25062604
Questions are better at unwiring old habits as they make you imagine the answer as being yourself versus my opinion would be, "4chan poster says." Questions like, "Did I just think the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus and is still legitimate?" Actually allow you to test the thought out as your own.

>>25062606
>Repent
You haven't proved me wrong in any way, what is it you want me to repent of?
>which pope
By the time of the 95 theses at the latest.

>>25062615
>repent
Don't lie.
>By the time of the 95 theses at the latest.
>at the latest
Not good enough.

>>25062613
>Did I just think the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus and is still legitimate?
Did I just think the Aaronic Priesthood was founded by Moses and is still legitimate? No because they apostatized.

>>25062609
Smith says original sin has no hereditary consequences.

>>25062618
>Not good enough
It's good enough for 50% of Christians
>Don't lie
Point to a lie.

>>25062621
Where? He surely doesn't contradict the Bible on this issue. How could someone believe in and profess hereditary curses not know about Adam's transgression and its consequences?

>>25062619
>No because they apostatized.
In a sense they did. They denied the Messiah and the Messiah condemned them for it. Apostasy is trickier in a Jewish context as the Pharisees and Sadducees were genuinely mutually disagreeing sects and so apostasy would be turning to false gods which is more idolatry. Apostasy, heresy, and heterodoxy Catholic ohrases and applying them to the Aaronic priesthood is tough.

>>25062576
>They do not have generational curses that are exceptional nor did they ever.
I agree the curse of Cain is no exception to the awful fruits of any generational curse.

>>25062629
Would you follow Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel? I follow Martin Luther and Joseph Smith for the same reasons.

>>25062623
>good enough for them
Does it matter what their opinion is or God's? For what it's worth, my point isn't Mormonism is all bad in every way but simply that it's relatively depraved. It doesn't mean that they don't know anything about Jesus but they are half-healed (see blind man cured twice miracle) like other Protestants. That being said, invalid Baptisms are uniquely Mormon and thus is uniquely bad and thus why Mormonism needs to be criticized so strongly.

>>25062636
>Does it matter what their opinion is or God's?
Their opinion matters no less than yours

>>25062636
>relatively depraved
Like having your organizational rules determined by governments? Like infant baptism and priestly celibacy, political perversions of the gospel? Or like barring the Gospel being preached in people's languages?

>>25062636
>invalid Baptisms
According to who? From which organizational perspective?

>>25062635
For the Old Testament, I would certainly try to but I'm not certain that I would get it right frankly. Are you? Luther I would not have followed likely as he was definitionally heretical even though the Church was in a low point but Smith's polygamy is outright a red flag for me. Smith did nearly exactly what I would do if I started a cult and it's the perfect non-starter. Jesus's celibacy screams out for any Christian denom. to have a proper respect for it but they lack the grace necessary to sustain celibacy because they don't have the real Sacraments.

>>25062647
>definitionally heretical
Where?

>>25062647
So you would say "I don't need to read the Bible to judge, I can just follow the organization in Rome"? If you could only speak German and Luther translated it? Wouldn't that take away your authority to condemn those who would choose to read the scriptures for themselves?

>>25062638
Correct! God's matters way more. Did He found a Church?
>>25062643
>Like having your organizational rules determined by governments?
If the government doesn't violate the moral law St. Peter's epistles hold.
>Like infant baptism and priestly celibacy, political perversions of the gospel?
Was Jesus celibate?
>Or like barring the Gospel being preached in people's languages?
This just is not true. Most people couldn't read and it was primarily oral. Also, Christians literally invented the codex for this purpose.
>>25062644
Pope St. John Paul II clarified this.

>>25062653
Clarified it from a Catholic perspective that nobody else cares about. OK.

>>25062653
>If the government doesn't violate the moral law
Commandments of man are abomination in God's eyes.

>>25062653
>Was Jesus celibate?
All I recall him extolling was the virtues in leaving one's wife and child behind for the sake of the preaching work.

>>25062653
>primarily oral
Reading the Bible?

>>25062652
>So you would say "I don't need to read the Bible to judge, I can just follow the organization in Rome"?
This is an adequate position if you hold Scripture is confusing or overwhelming. Otherwise, Popes in recent decades encourage reading it. Which of the Apostles read the Bible? Could they all even read? Are illiterate converts fake Christians?
>If you could only speak German and Luther translated it?
The issue isn't translation but approved translations per se. You can do A LOT with some words ("daily bread", the word for "daily" appears once in all of Greek) and it is genuinely risky.
>Wouldn't that take away your authority to condemn those who would choose to read the scriptures for themselves?
I do not have the authority to condemn anything as heretical. I can speak my conscience and evangelize but only a bishop or pope could condemn it. To be fair, some of these are clearer cut and straight forward (fake baptisms is a nuclear bomb against mormonism).

>>25062668
>fake baptisms
This is the sort of thing people who have no baptism of the spirit talk about. If you have the baptism of spirit, you don't even necessarily have to have been baptized in water. Moot point.

>>25062658
There's negative and positive commands. thou shall not murder is negative. If the government criminalizes murder, that's a good thing, right?
>>25062662
Was His way of life itself a form of evangelism? Can His message be seprated from His habits of life?
>>25062665
Most of human history most people couldn't read because it was too expensive.

>>25062673
What do you mean?

>>25062672
>If you have the baptism of spirit, you don't even necessarily have to have been baptized in water.
Baptism by desire is conditional on your will and also doesn't remove original sin. Moreover, it's pointless to desire less spiritual goods than what God wants to give you.

>>25062676
What do you mean?

>>25062678
>>25062675
Exactly what I said.

>>25062680
>nothing real to say
SHYGDDT.

>>25055952
>deny the trinity
Where?

>>25062480
>>25062561
>12 And I looked and beheld a man among the Gentiles, who was separated from the seed of my brethren by the many waters; and I beheld the Spirit of God, that it came down and wrought upon the man; and he went forth upon the many waters, even unto the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land.
>13 And it came to pass that I beheld the Spirit of God, that it wrought upon other Gentiles; and they went forth out of captivity, upon the many waters.
>14 And it came to pass that I beheld many multitudes of the Gentiles upon the land of promise; and I beheld the wrath of God, that it was upon the seed of my brethren; and they were scattered before the Gentiles and were smitten.
>15 And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.
>16 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld that the Gentiles who had gone forth out of captivity did humble themselves before the Lord; and the power of the Lord was with them.
>17 And I beheld that their mother Gentiles were gathered together upon the waters, and upon the land also, to battle against them.
>18 And I beheld that the power of God was with them, and also that the wrath of God was upon all those that were gathered together against them to battle.
I don't see any explanation other than this being about the USA.

>>25065190
Also
>30 Nevertheless, thou beholdest that the Gentiles who have gone forth out of captivity, and have been lifted up by the power of God above all other nations, upon the face of the land which is choice above all other lands, which is the land that the Lord God hath covenanted with thy father that his seed should have for the land of their inheritance; wherefore, thou seest that the Lord God will not suffer that the Gentiles will utterly destroy the mixture of thy seed, which are among thy brethren.

exmormon here
book of mormon is neither a true book nor especially well written. read it a dozen times, was active in the church for over 20 years, went on a mission, BYU, married in the temple, blessed my baby

first time on /lit/ in over a year, surprised that a mormon thread is running.

>>25065190
>>25065306
>12 And I looked and beheld a man among the Gentiles, who was separated from the seed of my brethren by the many waters; and I beheld the Spirit of God, that it came down and wrought upon the man; and he went forth upon the many waters, even unto the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land.
- Zhuang He's voyage to Mecca includes Chinese contact with Ethiopians
>13 And it came to pass that I beheld the Spirit of God, that it wrought upon other Gentiles; and they went forth out of captivity, upon the many waters.
- Many Europeans went and colonized the Americas as well as Africa
>14 And it came to pass that I beheld many multitudes of the Gentiles upon the land of promise; and I beheld the wrath of God, that it was upon the seed of my brethren; and they were scattered before the Gentiles and were smitten.
>15 And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.
- Africa was wholly overtaken by Gentiles
>16 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld that the Gentiles who had gone forth out of captivity did humble themselves before the Lord; and the power of the Lord was with them.
- Gentiles who left the captivity of the Catholic Church were blessed
>17 And I beheld that their mother Gentiles were gathered together upon the waters, and upon the land also, to battle against them.
- Catholic Europe made war against Protestants under Charles V, Napoleon, and Hitler (3 catholic tyrants)
- "mother church" is commonly used by Catholics to refer to their church; also, "Motherland" was never used by Americans or Brits to refer to England or Britain
>18 And I beheld that the power of God was with them, and also that the wrath of God was upon all those that were gathered together against them to battle.
>19 And I, Nephi, beheld that the Gentiles that had gone out of captivity were delivered by the power of God out of the hands of all other nations.
- Protestants were delivered victory each time
>30 Nevertheless, thou beholdest that the Gentiles who have gone forth out of captivity, and have been lifted up by the power of God above all other nations, upon the face of the land which is choice above all other lands, which is the land that the Lord God hath covenanted with thy father that his seed should have for the land of their inheritance; wherefore, thou seest that the Lord God will not suffer that the Gentiles will utterly destroy the mixture of thy seed, which are among thy brethren.
- Africans were delivered of Gentile occupation, a thing that native Americans were not
Also the whole rest of the chapter prior was about the Roman Catholic Church being evil.

>>25065461
I think this is equally as plausible as Columbus/USA, even without all the other evidence against it being in the Americas.

>>25065461
So primary to the vision is Gentiles escaping captivity and the same gentiles colonizing either America or Africa. I think it is harder to say the Spanish conquerors of America were escaping captivity like how those who left Europe as Protestants.

>>25065320
>not especially well written
What don't you like about it? It does acknowledge its own flaws.
>not a true book
Have you considered the Africa geography theory?>>25050343
>>25050427

>>25065465
equally at least*

>>25065320
It is an interesting topic of debate for a lot of people.

>>25065482
>What don't you like about it? It does acknowledge its own flaws.
flaws within the book of mormon cannot be acknowledged within the book of mormon.
the most glaring flaw is the plagiarism that occurs between the book of mormon and ethan smith's view of the hebrews.
it cannot acknowledge the problem of the archaeological record (horses in the americas)
this aside, the structure of the text includes a significant section of largely dry and uninteresting "summary" of the records of the wars between the lamanites and the nephites in Alma. It takes significant portions of the old and new testament—parts of which do not coincide with later "inspired" translations of the bible that Joseph Smith likely also plagiarized from Adam Clarke's commentary.
>using the book of mormon for black israelite theories
doesn't this contradict the statements of Joseph Smith and every president of the church afterwards? this would require the book to be true, and thereby translated correctly through the "gift and power of god" (Jos. Smiths' words), but the guy who translated it to not be a prophet in any other capacity? moronic, frankly

>>25065592
>not be a prophet in any other capacity
Well, it would accept also the Doctrine and Covenants, and everything else, except the fact that the geography wasn't known and was deliberately kept obscure by God.
>every president of the church afterwards
They aren't like Joseph Smith.

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>>25052612
i can drop the epub if you want to read it

>>25056260
Mormonism believe in 3 Gods; Mormonism also altered scriptured according to Joseph Smith's will.

>>25066335
Jews say the same thing about Christianity