>>25059280
Obviously, Sowell was a libertarian/ayn-crap so what's the QRD on this work?

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>>25059295
>if you don't love being a fashy goy you have a mental illness
Yes yes, this shtick again. Very clever.

>de-chudifying yourself by switching to an equally neurotic and socially isolating political rabbit hole
Ngmi.
>>25059295
kek

>>25059302
You have the option of being normal, you know, but instead you're asking to read c-tier communist theorists

>>25059269
Historical materialism is so narrow of a methodology can't take it seriously. Learn about geography, climate, linguistics and consciousness instead.

>>25059321
>socially isolating
This would only be true if you were associating solely with the extremely retarded.

>>25059330
It's actually normal, fun, and lots of people are doing it!

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>>25059269

>>25059269
YWNBAW

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>>25059350
Do you just post this as a kneejerk reaction? Reading political literature from a different side doesn't instantly make you an adherent. I've read The Communist Manifesto and State And Revolution just to find out what the theorists said, and I'm not remotely communist

>>25059364
People on this book board seem to hate reading. Utterly bizarre reactions.

>>25059280
It's a trap anon, this is a conservative author.

>>25059364
just check 4plebs for the file name yourself this retard/bot has been posting that in every marx/commie thread for years. many village idiots on all board topics, he is just one of the niche ones for this topic

>>25059436
On /fit/ we have a guy that posts insane shit every time the word 'keto' is mentioned.

>>25059269
On a visit to the local used books store, I spotted The Communist Manifesto in the Fiction section.

>>25059302
the actual national socialists and italian fascists were the only real socialists in the world. their economic results had better wealth equality than communist regimes and this is an objective fact that historians will tell you. of course, the former famously ended in madness and tragedy but the latter was actually quite a stable and forward thinking regime, would've been more so if it weren't for ww2 of course and i doubt it would last as long as monarchies did but still it was rather impressive. mussolini tried to join the allies but britain was miffed about him wanting italy's colonies back like they didn't already have enough of the dark continent.

>>25059478
This is great and all, but I already have Feder, Gentile, Gregor, Mussolini, etc. I am asking about leftist books in this thread.

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>>25059269
some random ones;
prosper lissagaray - history of the paris commune of 1871 (read frank jellinek's picturesque retelling if your totally unfamiliar with context)
elisee reclus - anarchy, geograph, modernity, selected writings
paul lafargue - the right to be lazy
joseph dietzgen - the positive outcome of philosophy
wilhelm reich - mass psychology of fascism

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>>25059269
U should unironically dilate then kys.

>>25059838
>>25059350
Why do mentally ill brainlets always invade these threads?

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>>25059269
why would you stop being a chud. Leftism is boring

>>25059830
Thank you for the actual suggestions.

>>25060129
I'm trying it out.

>>25059917
I think its funny

>>25059349
>This would only be true if you were associating solely with the extremely retarded.
This describes anyone who takes Marx seriously in the 21st century.

>>25060380
I am actually very clever.

>>25060129
>Leftism
Left right blue red light dark salt pepper god cat. Meaningless drivel.

In this historical fight it is between freedom and control and all the various degrees between their extremes.

>>25059269
Don't skip Engels, "Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State" is great.

>>25059286
That you're a retard for being a communist.

>>25060542
I read the excerpt of it in my Marx-Engels Reader, is it worth reading the entire thing?

>>25059917
>Why do mentally ill brainlets always start these threads?
ftfy

>>25060129
chudism eventually gets boring too even if you have chud values. start being a neoreactionary
>>25060473
what if control is necessary for freedom? or rather, for liberty? there is a major difference between the two, don't get em mixed up. liberty is positive whereas freedom is negative.
>hurr durr okay INGSOC
i don't mean government control, retard, i mean social control. the west was far more free over a century ago while pious and nationalist ruled by monarchs than it is today "free" to obey despair inducing totalitarian "democracies". with that being said, in a postmodernist world it's not easy to justify those like you used to be able to. but the thing is, you still can. the world was a objectively far better place back then in many ways and it was even better before the french revolution hamstrung monarchs which indirectly caused WWI in more ways than one. and in today's technological era of abundance for even the poor, there's no need to fear hard imperial economic reality like there used to be. if we need more resources, we can start colonizing the one land beyond the reach of progressives: space.

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People are shitting themselves in this thread instead of recommending books. For Christ's sake, post some books.

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>>25061095
i literally just critiqued using capitalism for geopolitical wargames in my post, learn how to read. maybe if you did, you'd see that that dumbass literally just made intentional finance stronger than it's ever been before by turning into the west into a penal colony and the rest of the world into the slave force that builds it. imagine your legacy being turning socialism into a gay race movement to kill petit-bourgeoisie suburban whites and burn their property down so PMC jews can buy their land. the devil must be laughing so hard while torturing his stupid ass. not like most communist movements fared much better, but at least back they had real intellectuals. you want one to read? here's an actually good one.

>>25059269
>Marxism

Marxism is a pejorative, like Darwinism.

Say Communist theory (like Evolutionary theory).

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>>25059269
>de-chudding project

You're going to fail like every other "intellectual". You will only become a fascist, which is the path of all "enlightened" middle class.

You HAVE TO go work with other people, you HAVE TO talk to them, you HAVE TO get them to talk to people within their own departments and between departments, and with other workplaces. You have to BE the proletariat.

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>>25059280
>as a black man, I'm thankful for slavery because otherwise I would be living in Africa now

>>25061161
Sure, call it what you like. Recommend books in that subject.

>>25061173
>You will only become a fascist, which is the path of all "enlightened" middle class.
Don't give me this Sakaist nonsense.
>You HAVE TO go work with other people, you HAVE TO talk to them, you HAVE TO get them to talk to people within their own departments and between departments, and with other workplaces. You have to BE the proletariat.
You can do that while reading books, you know. As an aside, I do have a job and I talk to normal people every day of the week.

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Mossad still hard at work on the boards I see

Read Lenin, Stalin, Joan Robinson and Paul Cockshott.

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>>25059269
Have you read Main Currents of Marxism yet? It will cover all the pre-war variants, and has chapters on the New Left. It's a tremendous literary achievement that should be read by all, regardless of degree of interest in the topic.

His verdict is that Lukacs got Marxism right in History and Class Consciousness, but also that Stalinism is a permissible and even likely outcome of Marxism/Lukacs (and that's a bad thing).

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>>25061633

>>25061633
I haven't, but I will look into it.

>>25061183
>as an Frenchman, I'm thankful for the Roman Conquest Gaul of because otherwise I would be living in a Gaul now
>as a Jew, I'm thankful for the exile because otherwise I would be living in Israel now
>as a irish man, I'm thankful for slavery because otherwise I would be living in Ireland now
>as a Roman, I'm thankful for the destruction of Troy because otherwise I would be living in Asia Minor now
>as an Englishman, I'm thankful for the Roman conquest of Britain because otherwise I would be living in a bog now
And so on and so forth

>>25059269
Solidarity (UK) As we see it / As we don't see it
CLR James Black Jacobins
Ehrenreich PMC

>>25061633
>it has chapters on the New Left
Shitty ones. MCM is good to 1950 for mainline Marxism. Also Stalin was right but The Party and the Soviet Working Class betrayed Stalin, and historical necessity forced Stalin to be Stalin...
I'm not joking here as a libcom.

>>25061161
Evolutionary theory's actually right.

Like all things that were right, Marx did not understand it at all. Natural selection is about the advancement of some families over others. The goal of Marxism is to abolish the family.

>>25059269
Suuuure dude. You're definitely a chud who sees the errors of his ways and the true light of marxism. That's very believable.

>>25060473
Making a god out of "freedom" is a strange thing. It's just one virtue among many.

>>25061173
What an unbelievably stupid quote.
Under capitalism, people don't starve. That's it. Under communism lots of people starve.
What "scarcity" has capitalism "manufactured."
Stop thinking up shit that makes sense in theory, on an ideological basis, and instead pay attention to the actual world and actual reality.
>Well my THEORY says capitalism makes people starve and...
Yeah well it doesn't so your theory isn't worth a pot of water

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>>25062079
>Nooo, you have to be a chud forever
What is the point of this shitty attitude?

>>25062310
You don't have to be a chud but being a chud puts you 90% of the way there
You can't go back to being a normie and becoming a Marxist is still a massive step backward
It literally makes no sense. This is always a common shill refrain "I saw the error of my ways and stopped being a chud" but it makes no sense because chuds are basically right. You don't go back from taking the redpill. At best you can become a trascended chud with a broader base of knowledge and some more nuanced positions.

>>25062426
I would describe myself as a Marxist with Racist Characteristics in that I'm not a homosexual with a slavish adherence to identity politics. Probably the sort of thing that was common in the middle of the last century.

>>25062441
so a nazi/ fascist. lame. marxism is just wrong dude. it's not complicated.

>>25062507
>so a nazi/ fascist.
Not really, no. I'm just not interested in anything except class analysis.

>>25061972
It’s always funny to me when people tout Bakunin or Trotsky as leaders who would have made the ussr into a utopia like operation Barbarossa wouldn’t have ended at the urals.

>>25062559
Stalin was a reasonably sane leader. Trotsky was a fanatical ideologue. He would have made communism much, much worse by being much more committed to it, whereas Stalin mitigated some of that by being more realistic.

>>25062559
Barbarossa was a direct result of Stalin's fait accompli, though. He was gearing up to betray Hitler after Poland. Assuming no Stalin, there's no Barbarossa, either.

>>25059830
>wilhelm reich
What is it about leftists and just taking the most bizarre and lunatic pseudoscientists seriously when it comes to fascism?

>>25061173
This image sounds very deep until you realize that every capitalist country subsidizes food production to some extent. Because, you know, it's a strategic resource.
It's weird how anti-liberals seem to think that everyone except them are these hyper-selfish sociopaths and that the state just doesn't seem to exist in liberal societies.

>>25061972
Historical necessity does not exist.

>>25062079
To be fair, many losers who get chud beliefs eventually balk when they realize they don't have a gf and by then they will typically try to rationalize it as somehow being caused by chuddiness, even though plenty of literal neo-nazis get gfs.

>>25062441
Marxism is nothing more than identity politics. Class is an identity and a made-up one in our current liberal classless societies.

>>25059269
>As part of my 2026 de-chudding project I've been working through some staples of Marxism,
youll literally just become a leftist chud. Yes, they do exist and are just as annoying and losers.

>>25062749
This. Like, you have people out there saying that Stalin and everything he did was based. Same with Mao

>>25062718
Barbarossa would have happened anyway. I can’t imagine a better scenario for hitler in 41 than to have a demobilized Bakunin ussr full of freshly modernized farms and factories to seize. Trotsky I could see holding the line a little better than Bakunin but ultimately I think he would’ve been the weaker choice as his peasant reform (slaughter of kulaks) would have damned him from the start.

>>25059269
I see some value in Marxist analysis but “leftism” is retarded af. You really gotta be a low IQ normie to believe that shit.

>>25062745
IDpol is from the CIA and is designed to divide people and keep them from noticing the CLASS DIVIDE that ruins everyone and everything in our life. The CLASS DIVIDE is what concerns Marx and libertarian-socialists (and a hand full of progressives)
Class is NOT an identity, it is CASTE. No one actually wants to be poor. Why identify with that?
>our current liberal classless societies.
Facetious statement? Liberals know damn well there are class divides, and they LOVE them.

>>25060473
Nah its how most political theory talked about in the academy. Cope.

>>25062911
No. In fact, we live in a classless society and have been doing so for a long time. Your "class divide" is just griping about material inequality and the fact that you have to actually compete in order to attain valuable/prestigious/central positions in society (which was also the case in the USSR, albeit with even more nepotism), not actual classes with real and legally recognized privileges.

>>25062945
>In fact,
All facts point to the opposite. You have to be dumb as a rock to not acknowledge that there are homeless, working poor, slightly better off, slightly better off, till there's middle class later to the rich, the mega rich, and the obscenely rich.
>you have to actually compete
Even if I could go into debt to get an education in a growing and lucrative field, I would never be able to reach anything other than one rung on the class ladder to that you claim isn't there. You are an idiot.

>>25063018
That doesn't disprove that race, culture > class. Genetics is very real, so much for Marxism being scientific if it can't explain inequality on genetic grounds.

>>25062945
I think you should research what words mean: Mobility is virtually impossible within a single lifetime in a caste. No matter how much wealth or success an individual achieves, their caste remains the same. Class has social mobility and it’s a defining feature. An individual born into a lower class can move to an upper class through education, entrepreneurship, or career success (and vice versa).

>>25062743
I've never seen that. I told a girl I was a nazi (which I'm not I was just trying to be as outrageous as possible) whose grandparents died in camps blah blah and she didn't care. Being a nazi probably helps these days

>>25062743
I'm married, so this doesn't have anything to do with me.

>>25062745
Fucking lmoa

>>25062749
>>25062775
How is it that you conflate learning about something with complete adherence? You don't have to be a tankie. It's not a requirement.

>>25062790
I'm not so sure that Barbarossa happens in the absence of Stalin's designs on German soil. Consider how Hitler managed his alliances with Spain and Italy. Would it have been eggshell diplomacy? Probably, yeah, but it's better than invading your allies and causing trillions of deaths because you're a paranoid schizo.

>>25062822
I am very retarded (60 IQ). Please be nice to me.

>>25063018
I do not. These aren't classes. Class and caste isn't determined by ehether or not somebody is a dopefiend

>>25062822
Nobody really "believes" leftism, they just follow it because it's beneficial to them. That's how they can change their opinion on a dime to the opposite of what it was yesterday. Any sincere leftist would probably be dead from living in the ghetto and letting hobos sleep in their house or whatever. Instead they all do the opposite.

>>25063033
>Goal post move
I do not deny the factor of race/racism etc.
>Genetics
This argument popping up again? Read up on epigenetics already.
The issue of inequality that comes up in sociopolitical discourse is rarely concerned with Darwinian dawdling. We're talking about the sociopolitical inequality that the ruling class have brainwashed people to believe in like a god.

>>25063045
You should tell that to the other guy. But we still do not have classes the way "class" has been understood for most of human history. The estate system doesn't exist anymore. You could also become a clergyman in the ancien regime if you just went through education. However, being a clergyman doesn't mean much today since we live in liberal societies devoid of social hierarchy.

>>25063081
Listen, how about you actually challenge yourself for once and learn about a real titan like liberalism, and I mean serious liberalism, from Augustin Thierry to John Rawls? You cannot get more anti-chud than this. Marxism just turns you into a different type of chud.

>>25063146
>sociopolitical inequality
That's a really strange way of saying "material inequality"

>>25063161
You don't know what the subject is.
Go back to /sci/ or /pol/ or whatever

>>25063147
That response was meant for the Leftist Chud. I don’t think we live in a classless society per se, but at the end of the day, people do not fundamentally identify with their job or the mere fact that they work. Class has significant mobility now; through higher education and entrepreneurship, social status has become very fluid. It is not the rigid caste system that Marxists imagine it to be. Since this is the reality, one focuses entirely on income inequality and equality of outcomes, which inevitably leads to woke policies that actively repress White people.

Ultimately, people care about what affects them and theirs. All politicians may rob us in some way, but only one side has argued that my relatives and I should be shut out from jobs and education specifically because of our race and the Left cheered for it. This calls into question the entire concept of class solidarity. White workers do not share a common interest with the imported labor or lumpen elements present in Western countries, whose primary function is often to help the owning classes create controlled chaos. And the Left generally has no issue with racial chauvinism, provided it comes from a group high up on their victim hierarchy. Demanding that White people stay silent and accept disenfranchisement in the name of solidarity is a farce. True solidarity must be reciprocal; otherwise, it is simply a demand for submission. so far, I’ve seen no intention to encourage some sort of assimilated socialism at all.

>>25062911
Insanity.
"IDpol" (a surefire commie shibboleth) is natural human reactions to outsiders.
All of the "IDpol" propaganda has been aimed at making people accept multiculturalism. They are trying to make us get along, not divide us. The division is the natural, irrepressible human reaction to forced diversity. Good liberals who buy into it wholeheartedly will eventually, sometimes, break after too much exposure to the reality of it.
Marxist class theory is entirely wrong and does not apply to reality in any sort of clear or meaningful sense. It does not enlighten or make things more understandable. It is a totally obsolete, clunky theory that only exists in people's minds, not in actual practical reality at all.

>>25063180
I do. I'm just not some guy who thinks Marx is at all relevant.

>>25063183
>Since this is the reality, one focuses entirely on income inequality and equality of outcomes
I think you are close on the money. One thing that egalitarianism inevitably leads to is expension of the field of competition. Even the USSR was marked by competition which got even more fiercer the higher up in the party you were.

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>>25063203
You can’t regulate away what people are; people are hierarchical. If you remove competence, merit and wealth as the metrics for success, people don’t just stop competing. They just find new, often nastier ways to distinguish themselves.
The USSR example is perfect. When you ban economic competition, it doesn't disappear it just transforms into bureaucratic warfare. Instead of competing to provide value or build a business, you are forced to compete for political favor, party loyalty, and connections. We are seeing the exact same dynamic today with "equity" policies. By trying to flatten economic outcomes, the Left hasn't created a brotherhood of man; they’ve just turned social status into a bloodsport. Now, instead of competing for a paycheck, people are fiercely competing for their spot on the victim hierarchy or to be the loudest ideological gatekeeper. It’s actually a more toxic form of competition because it’s purely subjective, you live or die based on who controls the narrative, not on what you actually produce.

>>25059280
FPBP

>>25063183
>Class has significant mobility now
Blatant lie unless you’re a baby boomer in a first world country. Not to mention that the mechanism of class mobility at that time were labor protections set in place by FDR which neolibs have been killing themselves politically to remove for 50 years. You’re still a prole at the end of the day
>All politicians may rob us in some way, but only one side has argued that my relatives and I should be shut out from jobs and education specifically because of our race and the Left cheered for it
The classic radical left argument. You are a victim of youtube brainwashing.
>White workers do not share a common interest with the imported labor or lumpen elements present in Western countries, whose primary function is often to help the owning classes create controlled chaos
They do though because the reason those refugees exist in the first place is because their countries have spent the last century getting incessantly raped by western imperialism. Once we throw out the bourgeoisie they will go home.
>so far, I’ve seen no intention to encourage some sort of assimilated socialism at all.
I know 10x the white socialists than I do others. The only people who ingest this culture war bullshit are college undergrads in majors with 5% overall enrollment and people who watch commentary youtube all day like goycattle

>>25063184
>a surefire commie shibboleth
Honestly, it was a CIA psyops the whole time, anon. Saw those Epstein/Moot emails? NSA/mossad bitches frequented /pol/ to play psych games with people (and on other social media of course)
>"IDpol" propaganda has been aimed at making people accept multiculturalism.
Legit teachers always knew how to talk down a rabid dipshit racist. But IDpol was designed to convince some to be nice and others to be sick of them. Rightwing IDpol became a thing a long time ago. They want people fighting over this in the streets. You keep calling people Marxists, they keep calling you a nazi. Some people look into those things and adopt the ideology, some don't, but the name calling continues. No calm measured discussion, just people shutting each other out. You are a manipulated man.

>>25063191
You clearly do not. Sociopolitical inequality deals with sociological inequality and political inequality. IE the legality of it all. Why would you take a detour into genetics?
Marx isn't that relevant, though you keep bringing him up, not I. However this is a thread about Marx or this OP book, I did mention above;
>The CLASS DIVIDE is what concerns Marx and libertarian-socialists (and a hand full of progressives)
I am in the libertarian-socialist camp

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>>25063230
While the specific mechanism of the post-war boom has changed, the rigid caste system you are describing simply doesn't exist. People move between income brackets constantly via tech, trades, and entrepreneurship. You are confusing "difficulty" with "impossibility" to justify a Marxist framework that requires a static, oppressed proletariat to function. If class were truly a fixed caste, you wouldn't see the rapid rise of new elites or the collapse of old money. Dismissing institutionalized discrimination as YouTube brainwashing is gaslighting, pure and simple. Affirmative Action, DEI mandates, and specialized loans to help non-whites are real, they are not internet conspiracies; they are corporate and federal policy that I have dealt with in real life. Major companies and universities have explicit quotas and "diversity targets" that, by definition, deprioritize White applicants regardless of merit. Acknowledging stated policy isn't radical, it’s basic observation

>Once we throw out the bourgeoisie they will go home.

Trump is trying to kick them out but the leftists on the streets are killing the themselves to prevent this. This is the most delusional take of all. The idea that millions of economic non-white aliens will voluntarily pack up and leave a first-world welfare state just because "the bourgeoisie are thrown out" is a utopian fantasy with zero historical precedent. People migrate for resources and standard of living. Socialism doesn't reverse migration flows; it historically accelerates resource stripping and offers more gibs. there is no proof leftists will stop DEI or race based hiring. Promising that "they will go home" is the carrot Marxists always dangle to trick nativist workers into voting against their own interests. Claiming the culture war is limited to "5% of undergrads" ignores that those undergrads now run HR departments, media conglomerates, and government agencies. This ideology has escaped the campus and is now dictating the hiring practices and legal frameworks of the real world. Pretending it's just "internet drama" is a coping mechanism to avoid admitting you've lost the cultural institutions.

>>25059280
Shieeet dem marxists be robbin aur hood dawg, u kno wat imsayan?

>>25063230
Government spending is only increased, saying it’s neoliberalism doesn’t face the fact that government has only gotten bigger and more corrupt.

>>25063275
>Black Wall Street Wichita
>The Harlem Renaissance
The capitalists waged war against the black population, and even when they made capitalism work out for them, they lynched them or bribed politicians to undermine them.
Sowell is an uncle Tom porch monkey

>>25063287
>if we just give them another trillion dollars their IQ will increase.
>NOOO REAGEN GAVE THEM 1 TRILLION ITS OVER

With the amount of money the Europe has spent on Africa there should’ve been a Wakanda civilization by now.

>>25059438
>On /fit/ we have a guy that posts insane shit every time the word 'keto' is mentioned.
It's called facts and research findings. Sorry it triggers you.

>>25063230
I can tell you right now that welfare Somalians and socialist nigs don’t have anything to common with White people, and it’s kind of why they want them there. Are you actually gonna tell me that the Somalians in Minneapolis committing fraud shows solidarity? Immigrants have a survivalist, opportunistic mindset.

>>25059438
Keto is pretty insane

>>25063306
Anon, they succeeded in improving these areas. Black Wall Street Wichita, the Harlem Renaissance.
Their "IQ" sufferers because they get thrown into poverty.
>the amount of money the Europe has spent on Africa
The wealth they extracted from Africa went to the European elites and has yet to be paid back. No, you must adjust for inflation.

>>25059269

I like Marx threads. You think you've heard all the brain-dead anti-marxist/communist takes there are but then someone comes along and types something that could only be explained by a lobotomy.

>>25060380
Literally everyone wealthy and powerful takes Marx extremely seriously.
It's only poor burgers that think Marx and Marxists are retarded.
>>25060473
"Freedom" The freedom burger has arrived.
You know you should be more specific about exactly what "freedom" you mean.
>>25062058
Worlds smartest anti marxist

>>25062441
>>25062549
Marx was very racist thoughbeit

>>25062559
Bakunin had some fair analysis on ruling classes though.

>>25062743
Women just like whomever has ultimate power. Its not rocket science.

>>25062743
Also, this seems to be a common talking point of the left. They make a big deal out of the right being obsessed with peoples' private sex lives but then do the same thing. Why is it any of you (or any other leftist for that matter) that a guy is a virgin or doesn't have sex? What a bizarre thing to obsess over.

>>25063311
>>25063351
Sorry grainbrains, I will pray for you.

>>25063272
>People move between income brackets constantly via tech, trades, and entrepreneurship. You are confusing "difficulty" with "impossibility" to justify a Marxist framework that requires a static, oppressed proletariat to function.
Marx never said that the petty bourgeois couldn’t move up and down in the favor of the larger capitalists he just said that they would ultimately serve the interests of the owning class which they still do. Techbros leveraging bitcoin on google stock and making thousands of useless apps to siphon investment from idiot boomers who think AI Amazon shopping will be the future isn’t a threat to the real political-economic cornerstones of American hegemony like the world bank, the petrodollar, and various third world resource investment funds. This is a non critique of an idea that Marx doesn’t even express.
>The idea that millions of economic non-white aliens will voluntarily pack up and leave a first-world welfare state just because "the bourgeoisie are thrown out" is a utopian fantasy with zero historical precedent. People migrate for resources and standard of living. Socialism doesn't reverse migration flows; it historically accelerates resource stripping and offers more gibs.
It offers more gibs to people who are productive, employed members of society. There will be programs to help people find jobs but this fantasy that the right has of socialism without work has historically never existed. People will find work or they will leave.
>Claiming the culture war is limited to "5% of undergrads" ignores that those undergrads now run HR departments, media conglomerates, and government agencies.
Which has clearly had such an overwhelming impact on the ability of right wing politics to express itself.

>>25063498
>It offers more gibs to people who are productive, employed members of society. There will be programs to help people find jobs but this fantasy that the right has of socialism without work has historically never existed. People will find work or they will leave.
While that is true, you can't pretend that tons of leftists are do-nothing retards who profess that when the revolution happens, they will do nothing afterwards. There are TONS of these types.

>>25063741
There are tons of anti marxist leftists, yeah. They are stupid, and effectively serve the purpose of anti communism. Anti work leftists are stupid, no shit.
There's all forms of leftist idiots, trotskyists for example split up and balkinize the working classes, anti work leftists are morons who don't even know what the basis of being a leftist is, left coms who expect there to be kinda magical automatic communism button, anarchists who are against actual organizing which requires authority in some capacity, and various other utopians and idealists.

Everything requires work, and writing, research etc all requires work.

>>25063779
I agree with you, I just find the size of that contingent annoying and frankly, somewhat demoralizing. These people are damaging to the broader community.

>>25063260
>Honestly, it was a CIA psyops the whole time, anon. Saw those Epstein/Moot emails? NSA/mossad bitches frequented /pol/ to play psych games with people (and on other social media of course)
Yes I know you're retarded, thank you for making that obvious.
>. You keep calling people Marxists, they keep calling you a nazi. Some people look into those things and adopt the ideology, some don't, but the name calling continues. No calm measured discussion, just people shutting each other out. You are a manipulated man.
You self identified as a Marxist, how am I manipulated? You think people arguing is evidence of manipulation?
Anyways I hate how you speak like you know everything while saying the stupidest shit possible.

The more I read this thread the more I am reminded that lefties are just complete failures. The purpose of life is to basically become a warrior for the good and the true. Lefties completely and totally fail at this. It's funny because that is what they are posturing as. But instead it's just an epic fail of colossal proportions.

>>25063819
>The purpose of life is to basically become a warrior for the good and the true.
You can only achieve this by browsing xitter nonstop and replying to third world bot culture war slop accounts with impotent screeds about how we need to rape and murder the designated minority of the week and voting for a satanic ZOG pedophile every few years. Just like Mishima wanted.

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>>25063841
>Me? I fight the battle every day by posting racial slurs on 4chan.

>>25063841
>making up a guy to own
why are leftoids so addicted to this rhetorical strategy

>>25063401
>You know you should be more specific about exactly what "freedom" you mean.
No. But you can. Don't be lazy. An absolute freedom can look like what? Animalistic schizophrenia? Sociopathic thrill-killer? This is the freedom the control freak clergies of states always think of, but if that's the extremity of freedom, I do suggest dialing it back some.

>>25063401
>Worlds smartest anti marxist
>Elite neoliberalism is teh smrt!
Dogshit take. You eat your own feces. I can tell.

>>25059269
Right, what we need is more fucking tankies to larp on the internet and then shit their pants when it comes time to seethe power because the dem candidate isn't sucking the cocks of the downtrodden enough half way across the world and that's just not fair and very sad.. It's all so tiresome. Just fucking glass the rock, please.

>>25063817
>You self identified as a Marxist
No. No I didn't.
You have less mental powers than a slab of spam

>>25063899
it really comes down to this
I don't care about proving communists wrong or whatever because they've proved over and over again they're a completely ineffectual political force
from now on it's "JUST DO IT"

Liberalism was developed initially in the 1500s and didn't seize power throughout the world until the 20th century with the rise of Masonic-Judeo America. Marxism was developed in the middle of the 19th century and swept across the world in less than a century later. That was merely the first wave. A specter is haunting- pretending to be ignorant will not save you.

>>25063935
2 more weeks bro

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>>25059269
I recommend you skipping this trooning out process to the inevitable end and just killing yourself.

Another useless debate about marx and socialism. You'd think litards by now would have understood the futility. Always arguing about the same thing, the same way, and never getting anywhere.

>>25063943
How do you dumbfucks know nothing about anything and still end up winning? Oh that's because these commie subhumans are not actual liberals in any way shape or form..

>>25059269
Chudds read a lot. Normies go out and experience things.
Marx is based tho

>>25063946
The biggest proponents of socialism, communism, marxism are modern day liberals. In fact, the biggest anti-capitalists are liberals. It doesn't matter whether they understand what actual liberalism is or how closely tied it is to capitalism. The term stuck so we must deal with it as it comes.

>>25063970
You're right. Deal we shall. Cleave them from the herd. Don't give them oxygen in any dem events online or irl. Leave them to wither and rot in Hasan's retarded fever dream. I like Mamdani in spirit, but this commie shit isn't it the way when its being piloted by online cretins to undermine dem chances at winning elections.

>>25063939
It's happening right now. It's even happening in this very thread.

Explicitly leftist literature is cancer but applied anarcho-syndicalism is cool. It's similar to the Italian mafia except you smoke a lot of weed.

>>25063970
Not actually, no.
Seems you don't know whaat those things are.

>>25063989
Syndicalism is not mafia, it's unionism.

>>25063992
And you do?

>>25063994
>unions
Aka the mob. There are syndicalist communes in Spain that own entire towns, they're mobsters who tightly control their borders and murder dissenters.

>>25063997
>There are syndicalist communes in Spain that own entire towns, they're mobsters
That's the most insane pulling together of two definitions that definitely don't go together that I've ever seen. The mafia is by any definition the polar opposite of a commune, from form to function to values to execution of duties to internal hierarchies.

>>25064002
I regret to inform you that you're an idiot. Reading won't help you.
The same pattern repeats in Scandinavian syndicalist communes and the unions. It's inevitable.

>>25063997
No no. They ARE the town. The unionism that goes that deep. I guess you'd call the Amish a mafia family.
Dondragon isn't extorting people with protection rackets and drug and prostitution rings

>>25064003
You're are so utterly wrong that you have nothing to wit. You are the idiot, and you knew I would call you an idiot so you tried it first. No, mafia families are neither syndics nor communes.

>>25064006
I'm talking about the actual communes and unions in the world. You're talking about fantasies.
>>25064005
>I guess you'd call the Amish a mafia family
They have some similarities but not the same level of degeneracy and they don't claim to be anarcho-syndicalist communes.

>>25064013
>I'm talking about the actual communes and unions
No, you're not. You're not even close. Not only are you not close, you can't even figure a way to fuddle the two. They're entirely different organizations. Mafias are family based, communes are community based. Mafias are hierarchical based on paternal structures and a secret police system, where senior members of the dynasties and their trustees represent the sheriffs and junior members fill in as deputies. Syndicalists are concerned with operation of modalities, mafias are concerned with the balance of trust. Syndicalists are formalized as much as possible on written contract and constitution, mafias are informal and based on verbal understandings and instincts.

>>25064020
You can pretend all you want but that won't make the actual communes anything like your fantasy ideals.
This is what I mean when I say explicit leftist literature is cancer, it's like pretending Harry Potter is real.

>>25063982
yeah I'll make sure to check in in 2 weeks

>>25064024
You have nothing substantive to say- and it is at this point I am woefully reminded that people often come here to just post random words that pop into their heads.

But so no one else is confused, there is no such thing as "leftist". You're trying to relate foreign ideologies as wings of liberalism. Marxism has nothing to do with ideological liberalism, just as the various nationalist movements have nothing to do with rightist liberalism, just as theocrats have nothing to do with liberalism. You're a liberal arguing against other forms of liberalism in a thread that has nothing to do with the writings of liberals. In short: you are an idiot-stooge fighting the propaganda war of people who hate you and you're doing this by conflating terms whenever possible as to make discussion worthless. The discussion could have been valuable, but you have infected it with what is left of your anthrax-riddled-brainrot.

This is the midwit shit I am talking about. The thread has gotten and always does get side tracked by midwits arguing about what constitutes a commune. And these same retards and their likes are the ones who hope eventually to find a 'solution' to capitalism or a better understanding of marx's vision when they can't even find amongst themselves a resolution of what a commune is, isn't or should be. Useless circular debates that contribute to nothing.

>>25064034
>And these same retards and their likes are the ones who hope eventually to find a 'solution' to capitalism or a better understanding of marx's vision when they can't even find amongst themselves a resolution of what a commune is
Because you have people who come in here not wanting to find definitions. Their entire liberal ideology is predicated on playing stupid and arguing for ignorance. You cannot expect agreement, you merely have to pave the road of facts yourself. And by the way, this is because you are being approached by nothing less than the forces of evil.

>>25064031
I'm not the one seething about a post that said communes irl are pretty cool. You know exactly what I mean by "leftist", it's a wide net that includes deranged idiots like yourself who can't even pretend to think and instead regurgitate irrelevant verbal diarrhea every chance you can.

>>25064040
>You know exactly what I mean by "leftist"
The problem is that you do not know what you mean. We're talking about ideologies, and you're conflating left wing liberalism with a completely different ideology. Your emotional aversion to intellectual discourse is your own difficulty to deal with, leave it to yourself next time. No one else cares what you consider unrecht or not.

>>25064041
I'm not conflating anything you absolute retard and never mentioned anything to do with left wing liberalism. From the first post I was talking about the stereotype embodied in you, the deranged retard living in a fantasy world who hasn't visited or even looked up a single commune in his life.

>>25064049
You don't even know who you're speaking to. I'm not the original person that brought up communes, it was just obviously stupid of you to rant about how mafias were actually super-secret- communist Marx approved syndicalists. You were begging to get dabbed on. I just had no idea that you would wreck yourself repeatedly.

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>>25063153
back in the good old days, liberals were chuds too. literally 99% of people throughout western history were chuds. sorry, but the failed racial experiment will end.

All communists deserve death.

>>25063955
You're a dumb piece of shit

>>25063980
Liberalism sucks, you retard.

>>25064465
Enlightenment delivered you the freedom to experience more than suffering and slaving for someone else so you can squander it all madly racing back into slavery. Some people will always feel more comfortable as a cattle class. You're just one of them. It happens. Just get the fuck out of the way.

>>25063871
>Erm.. you just made up a guy my dude!
The vast majority of rightist culture warriors are a byproduct of lonely antisocial retards consuming brain destroying 24/7 pornographic media slop feeds. Few would dispute this.

>>25064005
>Dondragon
MONDRAGON. geez

>>25064013
>they don't claim to be anarcho-syndicalist communes.
Because they founded their sect before the terms of modern political categorization. Both the Amish and the socialists, communists grew from the bible's understanding of "property rights" and communal living. The Levelers being another.
Modern communists don't even have to follow Marxian atheist ideals. The commune doesn't hinge on "materialism". That's just Marxist critique of capital.

>>25064524
Yeah it's way better to live in a modern concrete jungle working two jobs because you have 80IQ through no fault of your own, eating processed food that is giving you ailments that won't be understood for centuries (like lead in the air making everyone retarded a few generations ago), being 10x more in debt than your yearly income, so that you can finance a TV and watch infinite "adaptations" of children's comic books from a century ago

Nevermind the fact that all modern medical and technological innovations were created by residual elites from older social systems that can no longer exist and that we haven't had any comparable geniuses in a generation or two, the world is going to get infinitely better because soon we'll have 7-second AI-generated porn clips of people sharting on each other's faces (access to which you can also finance if you first refinance your home which you don't own and which is surrounded by tents filled with rapist drug addicts)

>>25064796
Yes, 100 percent especially when you consider the alternative. Also, taking out the elites only creates a new generation of elites and communism does nothing to address it. In fact, it concentrates power in an inner circle giving the people outside of it no leverage for recourse outside of another bloodbath. At least here we have the rule of law and if we can attune it towards justice we'll break through the midwit filter of greedy cocksuckers hoovering up the resources for themselves. Citizens United needs to go away. That's just a fact.

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>>25064804
>At least here we have the rule of law and if we can attune it towards justice

"The mass media serve as a system for communicating messages and symbols to the general populace. It is their function to amuse, entertain, and inform, and to inculcate individuals with the values, beliefs, and codes of behavior that will integrate them into the institutional structures of the larger society. In a world of concentrated wealth and major conflicts of class interest, to fulfil this role requires systematic propaganda ... The beauty of the system, however, is that such dissent and inconvenient information are kept within bounds and at the margins, so that while their presence shows that the system is not monolithic, they are not large enough to interfere unduly with the domination of the official agenda."
Chomsky

"If by 'democracy' we mean the form which the Third Estate as such wishes to impart to public life as a whole, it must be concluded that democracy and plutocracy are the same thing under the two aspects of wish and actuality, theory and practice, knowing and doing. It is the tragic comedy of the world‑improvers' and freedom‑teachers' desperate fight against money that they are ipso facto assisting money to be effective. Respect for the big number—expressed in the principles of equality for all, natural rights, and universal suffrage—is just as much a class‑ideal of the unclassed as freedom of public opinion (and more particularly freedom of the press) is so. These are ideals, but in actuality the freedom of public opinion involves the preparation of public opinion, which costs money; and the freedom of the press brings with it the question of possession of the press, which again is a matter of money; and with the franchise comes electioneering, in which he who pays the piper calls the tune. The representatives of the ideas look at one side only, while the representatives of money operate with the other. The concepts of Liberalism and Socialism are set in effective motion only by money. … There is no proletarian, not even a Communist movement, that has not operated in the interests of money, and for the time being permitted by money—and that without the idealists among its leaders having the slightest suspicion of the fact."
Spengler

>>25064812
>money's too entrenched and messaging can only exist on the margins so why even try
lol, 10-4. Let's just do another mass slaughter and see how that goes. Dibs on guy with gun.

>>25064524
>Just get the fuck out of the way.
You couldn't make anyone do shit. You are probably an effete little weasel.

>>25064812
Chomsky is fucking gay. He stole this from Parenti who did it better.

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>>25064822
I just literally made you seethe.
>an effete little weasel.
lol, lmao.

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>>25064837
I'M NOT SEETHING! I"m NOT!!

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>>25064888
Checked.

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>>25059269

>>25064827
He's just a linguist where Parenti is a historian. Be happy that they can agree.

>>25064979
>He's just a linguist
He's an Epsoyn assoyciate and certified retard.

>>25065016
In his dotage he got married to an Argentinian woman. Then mister Blackmail sank his claws into him on some money scheme, was it? Then they call in their favor and he promotes lockdowns.
>Dat means evweyting he eva sed was WRONG
Wrong, retard.

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>>25065079

>>25065098
Trump blew Clinton
Had to to keep the child prostitute "auction" out of the press.
I'll bet he's bright orange in the face now

>>25065079
Chomsky's chief crime is actually solidifying the libtard world order by using libtard historical analysis.

>>25065532
>libtard
Is this a general attack on liberty or the political establishment at the DNC?

He's a linguist who has warned people about liars in the CIA controlled media. He has paid scant lip-service to the Spanish syndicalists, that's mass unionism/co-op community. Yet all you people do is talk about Pol Pot and now you're going to pretend he's implicated in child trafficking.
Gross and dishonest.

>>25065539
I mean libtard from the actual leftist perspective. In so criticizing the state's security and media apparatus, he's given it a lot of leeway for existing in its current state to begin with. It's a cart-horse arrangement problem.

>>25061085
Neoreactionary is the most retarded kind of chudism. Be a Strasserist or a Futurist or something.

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>>25059269
dont forget wilhelm reich

>>25065726
What did he mean by this??

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>>25059269

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Fuck off you culture war indian botniggers and post books

>>25063287
Oh noooo

>>25065813
What's the synopsis of this work?

>>25065851
Short collection of Hoffers essays, most shitting on intellectia for being useless self-interested manipulators instead of men of action capable of any substance.

>>25064745
making up a guy again you stupid faggot

>>25062743
This was literally me before I became a chud. I wa so not a libtard because I thought it would get me art hoe pussy (in reality I was just a beta bitch)

>>25065966
*I was only a libtard

>>25065966
>>25065968
Do you still love art hoes?

>>25065977
No, I went to the gym, stopped being a bitch, got laid, and realized all those bitches are crazy.

>>25065977
art hoes age out at like 26
they're hot and fun when they're young but their brains just don't develop, they'll turn 27 with no actual skills or experience (defined their whole existence via contrarianism so rejected 'capitalist' norms) and all of a sudden think "I should be a stripper"
if you want an actual future they're a dead end, take the normiepill

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>>25059269
I don't know if you'll so much as be de-chudding yourself but anti-chudding yourself.
The anti-chud is like the mirror equivalent. Looks and acts the same but has opposing beliefs.

>>25059269
>'I'm tired of being a retard. I'm going to become a different flavour of retard.'

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>>25063272
>Trump is trying to kick them out but the leftists on the streets are killing the themselves to prevent this. This is the most delusional take of all. The idea that millions of economic non-white aliens will voluntarily pack up and leave a first-world welfare state just because "the bourgeoisie are thrown out" is a utopian fantasy with zero historical precedent.
The Trump administration is contradictory because it's both increasing immigration and expanding the crackdown on it at the same time. Just the other day they announced their doubling work visas, but the reality is that the Republican ag business needs lots of migrant workers in states like Texas and Florida. FWIW I think Trump is losing in Minneapolis because it's mostly normies harassing ICE. Like, ICE/CBP will show up in a neighborhood and the people in that neighborhood will come out of their houses and try to fuck with them, and these ICE/CBP guys are incompetent Keystone Cops. There are left-wing activists there too but they will fuck things up by trying to create some CHAZ thing.

>People migrate for resources and standard of living.
That's true.

>>25059478
>the actual national socialists and italian fascists were the only real socialists in the world. their economic results had better wealth equality than communist regimes and this is an objective fact that historians will tell you. of course, the former famously ended in madness and tragedy but the latter was actually quite a stable and forward thinking regime
I'm not sure that's true (about wealth equality) because those regimes didn't abolish private property in land like the communists did. That said, Italian fascism is misunderstood because it lived under the shadow of the Third Reich, it wasn't notably politically repressive for a European state at the time, until World War II they barely shot more than a few dozen people (most of whom were Slovenian partisans). There really was a total revolution in Russia in which a regime came to power that believed in directing violence towards people on large scale according to their social status. There was really nobody other than the Nazis who were like that:
https://youtu.be/JGYzd191eEE

>>25059269
Kingdom of God is Within You and What I Believe by Leo Tolstoy. I think Literary and spiritual arguments for left wing thought are going to be the most engaging and powerful, both works I recommended are however nonfiction which I assume you prefer, if you want fiction recommendations let me know

There was discussion on communes earlier in the thread and I will just tell you that political economy or historical anthropology or especially scholastic anthropology and also kropotokin is not unimportant to that discussion when something like the plan of ayala gets brought to the discussion in contextualizing what a commune is or was.

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>>25059269
Lenin:
Imperialism
State and Revolution
Self determination of nations
three sources three components

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>>25059364
>I'm trying to de-chudify myself because fashy make mean mean.
I also like to intelligently engage with opposing opinions.

>>25066515
I'll have to look into this. I have Dover's Essential Works of Lenin, but not all of those are in there.

>>25066522
That is literally correct, yes.

>>25065907
>useless self-interested manipulators instead of men of action capable of any substance.
Devastating truth nuke.

>>25066567
You can just be gay, dude. You don't have to invent some kind of intellectual rigor for it.

>>25066688
I am straighter than you.

>>25066729
Only one way to find out. Lock eyes and start gooning. The first one to cum is gayer.

>>25063850
gottem

>>25066729
No need to get defensive. It's current year. You slay queen.

>>25066458
>The Trump administration is contradictory because it's both increasing immigration and expanding the crackdown
got play both sides if you want to win!

>>25064034
Good sir, this is 4chan

>>25066458
It's kind of a smart plan, the lumpenized MAGA die hard base only responds to media spectacle. Trump could quadruple the Mexican immigrant population and they'd either not notice or blame the democrats because they're in a perfectly controlled media bubble. Meanwhile American wages are depresssed by the new migrants and any uppity laborers can be threatened with a crackdown if they demand better wages.