>>25061922
He was a closeted trumptard (pedo)

>>25061924
>politics
>an attempt to derail the thread into being about Chomsky's political views
politely, fuck off

This thread is about linguistics and linguists. Anyone who talks about anything else I will report.

>>25061922
He was a deceitful jew for sure, but I think his idea of grammar being hard coded in the brain has merits. It can't be coincidence that whenever blacks are forced to learn a non-African language as their first language they completely transform it into a brand new dialect in just a matter of a few generations. Of course he couldn't say that publicly, because doing so would be doing a racism.

File: FOUCAULT TWO NIL WE DRANK ALL YOUR ORANGE JUICE PAID IN HASH PAID IN HASH WE DRANK ALL YOUR ORANGE JUICE.jpg (60.7 KB)

60.7 KB JPG

>>25061922
>Noam Chomsky
Got fucked in public by Foucault over whether language probably means anything.

>>25061938
>It can't be coincidence that whenever blacks are forced to learn a non-African language as their first language they completely transform it into a brand new dialect in just a matter of a few generations. Of course he couldn't say that publicly, because doing so would be doing a racism.
But linguists study and recognize creoles and there even are hypotheses of "ebonics" coming from decreolization. If you didn't mean those what do you mean?

>>25061938
>blacks are responsible for ebonics despite ebonics being provably directly descended from lower class British english dialects from da Norf and West Country and really just being a sub-dialect of American Southern English
>Jamaican black English is suspiciously similar to the English spoken by the low class Irish slavehands who minded the negro slaves in the British Caribbean

>>25061945
I'm only pointing out that the way blacks transform languages is unique to them and the most likely answer is that it's because whatever region of the brain that deals with grammar must be slightly different in them. You could say it's because they are low IQ and that surely plays a role in their languages being, generally, less complex, but spics are also low IQ and their spanish is still at large the same as in Spain. No. The black brain must have its own grammar.

File: HAGSNBnXIAA82Mn.jpg (81.5 KB)

81.5 KB JPG

>when you've been busy manufacturing consent

>>25061938
>grammar being hard coded in the brain
I'm a Slav who knows a couple of Germanic languages and I would say that conceptually the most difficult things to understand are
1) difference between tenses (simple, continuous, perfect)
2) usage of articles
All other thing are learned mainly by sheer force of memorization.
I wouldn't say that our grammar is hard coded in our brain, it is just "a convenience/habit through routine". All we are able to learn foreign languages, understand math language after some exposure to them. Maybe child's brain is merely more capable to process information.

>>25061957
ahhh, that's smart, anon!
you're saying that the kind of english that black americans speak can be traced to dialects that originated specifically with the already low IQ English working class, which is why black americans had no difficulty adopting the accent, or if they did, then they found it really simple easily bastardize it even more, since the groundwork was already laid down for them (convenient!), and that's why they retained the accent over all those years without ever trying to move on from it!

>>25061957
>minded
Don't talk about foremen like that you horrible cunt. When Irish betray Ireland they become as bad as Scots. And nothing is as bad as a Scots foreman.

>>25061938
>but I think his idea of grammar being hard coded in the brain has merits.
How do you explain the children of immigrants? The parents may have the vestiges of their original language in their host country's tongue, but yet their children are fully fluent and speak in perfect grammar in the new host language?

>>25061986
You type like a woman and think like a redditor

/pol/ has finally been confirmed to be an Israeli psyop beyond any shadow of doubt. Why don't you go back there and hang out with your own disgusting kind

>>25062035
Chomsky precisely used that sort of thing as an example of his theory. He noticed that grammar in all languages is more or less the same. They all have verbs, nuns, pronouns and so on. It mostly just the order in which you structure a sentence that changes. Chomsky found this so unlikely, that all humanity across the globe would develop independently the same rules for language, that he concluded it must be an evolutive trait that must be encoded in the brain and he called it universal grammar. There are two issues with this though. The first is that neuroscientist have been unable to find a region in the brain responsible of grammar. The second is that there are some extremely niche cases of isolated tribes with really alien languages. I don't have an answer for the first, other than the brain being complex and what do we really know about how it works. But for the second, I think this only discredits the "universal" part of the theory, but doesn't discredit the possibility that grammar could be an evolutionary trait. Evolution is divergent after all. Of course Chomsky never went there though, because doing so would be charting race realism waters, a big no for a leftist jew.

>>25061922
a grimoire is just language manifested on the physical plane

>>25061938
How far back in history did a concept of grammar develop?

>>25062084
But is there any meaningful way to do grammar in other way than "subject, object, predicate, complement" structure? Slavic languages, for example, have a pretty loose structure, you can swap subject, object, predicate, complement with each other randomly without losing meaning, because the languages rely heavily on prefixes, suffixes and endings of words to differentiate between subjects and objects, for example. But that's all, you still need this standard structure. How would a language look like without it?

>>25061986
>specifically with the already low IQ English working class
By this logic every language is low IQ since they originate organically by common people talking

>>25062139
I thought the elites created the standard and it trickles down? Kind of like how British English was.

>>25062084
He also thought this universal grammar was innately good and consequently so was humanity, giving little thought to the fact that this faculty perhaps came from without the subject or in fact may be utilising the subject for it's own desires and ends. Language is rather a cutting tool, which can be weaponised but is never really 'wielded' by the user, taking on more of a parasitical function rather than a symbiotic, inherent or positive evoluntionary one. Generative is just another word for productivist, which becomes autoimmune in the age of the liquidation of value.

>>25062137
Cantonese is like hieroglyphics or something like that

>>25062157
Did he ever acknowledge speech acts?

gay

They try to brainwash you that grammar and logic are things that nobody really knows anything about. It's bullshit. There is already a very deep knowledge of these subjects. It's just that the elite hoards it, they don't want you to learn it, instead they feed you goyslop like Noam Chomsky, linguistics, modern logic, modern math, modern academia in general. It's always the people who defend public schooling too who defend this shit. They never learned anything. They hate learning. They're just very good at getting brainwashed.

>>25062206
>They try to brainwash you
*They brainwash you

>>25062206
Triviumanon?

>>25061922
What is a good introductory work to linguistics?

Wittgenstein explained everything you need to know about language and no one still seems to understand it lmao.

>>25062053
>/pol/ has finally been confirmed to be an Israeli psyop beyond any shadow of doubt.
You're the dumbest piece of shit alive.
Imagine how intellectually dishonest you would have to be to take something like that and turn it into 'beyond a shadow of a doubt.'
You really shouldn't exist at all.

>>25062137
>But is there any meaningful way to do grammar in other way than "subject, object, predicate, complement" structure?
Yes, for example "quantifier, variable, connective, relations, constant, etc" (FOL) or "keywords, identifiers, literals, operator, etc" (C++)

more uppity whites playing victim kek

>>25061922
Is it really invalid? Wiktionary is pretty awesome for info on dead languages

>>25062332
On the layman level, Language: The Basics, by R. L. Trask. On any other level, consult university syllabi, like https://analytics.opensyllabus.org/

>>25062332
none
>>25062768
fuck off

>>25062936
>Nooo, people should discuss this topic without actually reading anything first

99% of you are stupid and know nothing about language or linguistics, which kind of makes sense for this board.

>>25063206
What a worthwhile post. Perhaps even more interesting than >>25062936

>>25062084
Pretty much all civilization on Earth have developed the knife. Does that mean that the concept of "knife" inherently exists in the brain?
Grammar is just an useful, and fundamentally simple, tool to deal with the same basic reality. Convergent technology seems a much more obvious explanation.

>>25062763
>As opposed to uppity niggers like me!

>>25062150
To standardize a language you must first have material to work with, I don't know much about other countries but for example the "official" italian language is just a refined and more literary (by 18th century standards) version of florentine dialect.

>>25063323
>Pretty much all civilization on Earth have developed the knife. Does that mean that the concept of "knife" inherently exists in the brain?
Yes. Dreaming with a smart phone or a computer is rare, even if we interact with them on a daily basis, yet we have been dreaming with knives for thousands of years. Why do you think is that?

>>25063542
holy ESL

>>25063542
???

>>25061957
Thomas Sowell is a coping nignog

>>25063542
God tier bait, here's your (You)

>>25063684
>but W.E.B. Dubois is totally legit!

>>25061922
>godless atheist darwinist
>insists on finding miasmic universality in language to backstop 'humanist' priors
>while in Jeffrey Epstein's eugenicist dms, referring to the Nations as human-shell cattle without souls

>>25063684
You shouldn't post if you don't have anything to say. At last try to make an argument of some sort. Or at least explain what you mean. Making half an assertion is about the most useless thing possible.

>>25063721
True.

>>25061922
You think you know how language works? Then give me a mathematical model that predicts which English (or any language) sentences will and won't be grammatical.

>>25061958
>their languages being, generally, less complex
Swahili has 9 noun classes (analogous to genders in European languages but not having anything to do with gender in the ordinary sense) and that's a simplified trade language.

>>25062137
I dunno, look at some of the weirder conlangs people have come up with.

>>25062165
Writing is mostly irrelevant to linguistics. Speech is instinctive and at least as old as humanity, writing is a technology that had to be invented and taught and has only existed for a few thousand years.

>>25063959
You are talking to an ameriturd who thinks the culmination of black culture is held by 50 million blacks, ignoring the rest of the one billion. Also about swahili, this is true of most bantu languages, they classify nouns by noun classes--humans and animals, plants, inanimate objects, time, location, etc--kind of reminds you of kant's categories. Time starts in the morning, instead of midnight, etc so many cultural differences that get ignored because everyone has admitted to themselves that blacks are inferior and incapable of abstract thought.

>>25062084
>The second is that there are some extremely niche cases of isolated tribes with really alien languages.
Examples of this? I'd be curious to read up on these if there's books about it

>>25063966
You seem pretty darn triggered, auburn fella!

>>25063956
>Then give me a mathematical model that predicts which English sentences will and won't be grammatical.
Those models exist, in fact thanks to Chomsky, although "predict" may not be the exact word
>In the 1950s, Noam Chomsky introduced into linguistics the notion of generative grammar
>Peters and Ritchie (1973a), proved that transformational [generative] grammars of the "standard" sort with a context-sensitive base were equivalent to unrestricted rewriting systems (equivalently,Turing machines) in their weak generative capacity, that is, that there was such a grammar for every recursively enumerable language.

>>25064149
But are they actually fully isomorphic to English grammar as produced by native speakers?

>>25064140
Enough to trigger you, pink fellow.

>>25064179
Not as pink as your mother's pussy

>>25064179
>>25064190
You two idiots and your lame insults are what ruin threads FYI

>>25064238
I don't banter all the time, that's a very coarse observation. but considering my stances/beliefs/opinions fly in the face of nearly everyone here, people just naturally get pissed off. its not my fault them and I can't come to a consensus. the internet was built for two things, arguing and porn. that's really all its good for.

>>25063965
but is grammar instinctive? some theorists argue it isn't inherent in human brains.

>>25063764
>>25063956
>>25061922
No Derrida, Husserl, Wittgenstein? Noam Chomsky is an absolutely useless retard as revealed by his critique of BF Skinner

Nothing but fucking retards replying ITT. Just a fucking carpet bombing of posts about innateness. Did I say anything about innateness in the OP? No. Instead what I said was that he says that nobody knows how language works to this day, nobody knows the rules of language to this day, but he and his likes are pioneers finding out just now what the rules are. This is complete bullshit. It's propaganda, it's dumbing down the masses, it's goyslop. They have the same attitude in logic. Same bullshit there. Grammar and logic are not just now being discovered by some people who are the greatest thinkers ever, rather both subjects have been suppressed for the masses, and they have to feed the masses some made up bullshit instead, Noam Chomsky is part of that bullshit.

>>25062206

>>25061922
>Noam Chomsky and linguists in general are full of shit.
He is just an academic. Pretending whatever theyre doing is groundbreaking and important is merely how they siphon their share of the tax dollars

Chomsky is a pedophile retard but he held the line against behaviorist reductionist ahrimanic algorithmniggers

File: 2e74974557ea3e3572ff99640c287a718e6271aa.jpg (319.5 KB)

319.5 KB JPG

>>25064883
Nope, there's something more sinister at play. This is part of the whole media and school package of dumbing down the masses. Things aren't nearly as organic as you think. The table is tilted, the game is rigged.

>>25064903
the masses stay the masses, they dont need any help or assistance being dumbed down
Read a history book, chump-sky!

>>25064914
that's exactly what they brainwash you to think, congratulations on being a good goy and graduating from the chicken factory farm

>>25064903
The masses are inherently ignorant and low IQ. It requires far, far more effort to educate the masses than to let them remain ignorant. All you have to do to "dumb down the masses" is slash school budgets.

File: 74824824.gif (2.3 MB)

2.3 MB GIF

>>250649
>that's exactly what they brainwash you to think, congratulations on being a good goy and graduating from the chicken factory farm

>>25061922
Noam has interesting takes on language structure but his egalitarian ideals float in and fuck up everything.

>>25064923
brainwashed retard

>>25064926
ego investment is one of the main reasons the conditioning is very hard to break

>>25064438
How should I know?

File: 1651503109550.png (58.6 KB)

58.6 KB PNG

>>25064923
thats why schooling needs total abolition. the masses are too stupid for it so its a waste of money

>>25062605
>Epstein says 4chan has huge potential for manipulation
>meets Moot
>a day later /pol/ is opened
How could it be more clear

>>25066655
you got everything backwards, brainwashed ignorant retard

>>25061922
>>nobody has understood how language works to this day
>>we're just now figuring it out
This is 100% true, though? Nobody knew how beer or bread worked until the mid-late 1800's. Something like language is infinitely more complicated and requires even more foundational knowledge to begin to understand.

>>25066655
2nd panel

>>25064886
Anyone else like him who doesn't fuck kids?

>>25065657
I'm asking. Is there anyone who might argue against the theory that grammar is innate and what relevant literature?

>>25064190
?? Anon..

>>25066720
brainwashed retard stfu

>>25066740
Wrong board my fren.

>>25066750
seethe

>>25066740
fucking dumbass

>>25066750
Nta but you got recs anon?

File: 1745813027244313.png (94.8 KB)

94.8 KB PNG

>>25066757

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivium

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivial_school

https://libgen.li/edition.php?id=137170227

https://archive.org/details/familia-romana

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOcy6RHw7A8

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?app=desktop&list=PLNnqqvK2yDEFVdM_5wV4Od8kV2GaSo7jz

>>25066757
Aṣṭādhyāyī - Pāṇini

>>25066736
sus

File: 30941304188_6a6d527ce7_z.jpg (89.2 KB)

89.2 KB JPG

>>25061963
The woman in the center is probably Valeria Wasserman, his second wife.
She used to have a wiki entry with her picture. I think she's from Argentina or Brazil.