File: 1400756.png (1.7 MB)

1.7 MB PNG

>>43009213
Yes.

>>43009213
No.

>>43009213
No because Luna did jackshit to result in the creation of the Tantabus and because Celestia wasn't consulted about all of it but also yes because it's a Luna episode and it resulted in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_bDsz_tU8A

>>43009213
No.
I do like exploring dreams and stuff but the lesson is awful and the execution even worse.

File: 1759833447816185.png (431.2 KB)

431.2 KB PNG

>>43009213
I liked it.

File: 1761665332494.gif (1.2 MB)

1.2 MB GIF

All episodes featuring Luna are good episodes.

>>43009213
No, imo it fucked up Luna's character for no good reason (not totally devastating but a completely unnecessary and stupid addition)
Luna feeling remorse for turning on Celestia and betraying her is a good thing, but for that to lead to her literally torturing herself every night with an evil monster tulpa is ridiculous. By Season 5 she'd already proven herself as a good person again and willing to give everything up for the sake of her people against Tirek, so this emo shit is just cringe.

>>43009213
Strange script, cool visuals.

File: luna_at_sunset_by_maexis.png (1.5 MB)

1.5 MB PNG

>>43009213
I'm not a psychologist so I can't judge how realistic the premise is, I often see people criticising it, but personally I liked the idea and the execution. It's a fun episode that gave the animators a lot of opportunity to do wild shit. The resolution feels a bit too simplistic (just accept that it's OK to forgive yourself) and again I have no experience with this but it's also hard to do these kind of issues justice in a 22 minute kid's show episode and for that I think it did a fine job.

As with many season five episodes, the concept is much better than the execution. I didn't hate it but I wouldn't consider it a classic.

File: 116.jpg (588.1 KB)

588.1 KB JPG

I liked it a lot, one of my favorite episodes.

>>43009213
It did an okay job re-writing and adapting the comic, Tantabus worked better as an antagonist for a shorter story than Nightmare Rarity would obviously, but while it kept the same story beat of "Nightmare Creature starts messing with ponies minds, Luna comes down and admits it's her fault due to her past as NMM, finale with Ponyville joining in a big fight against the nightmare stuff", I feel like it messed with the moral a bit too much to the point where it's kind of worse for it. Dream fight vs Ponyville just hitting the nightmare creatures from the moon was more fun, but overall it left too much unsaid to be a great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFBXXMTLC48
Ironically, I both love the episode and also agree with all of the criticisms Joshscorcher gave in this review. Luna's characterization was handled very poorly, with the issue of chronic and destructive self harm being bizarrely addressed and "solved" within like 2 minutes. Luna clearly had serious psychological issues here that short speech from Twilight is not going to solve. And Celestia, the pony she hurt the most, wasn't even in the episode. Josh gave great suggestions in rewriting the episode to include Celestia and to handle the subject matter more respectfully. He also had good critiques of the show failing to develop Luna's character after Sleepless in Ponyville, which is why he considered Luna the worst princess at the time.

I'll throw in my own criticism as well, which is that this episode should have been a two parter. The episode was very rushed so it lacks creativity, with really cool concepts that deserved so much more time to develop and have fun with. For example, while the dreams of Rainbow Dash, Fluttershy & Pinkie Pie where super cool and creative, the dreams for Applejack, Twilight & Rarity were lame. It is a shame the dream world was not explored further on this show, there is so much fun that could be had with it. Imagine how much fun could have been had with the dreams if like the first 7 minutes was the setup, then the next 22 minutes or so was them chasing the Tantabus through a variety of cool dreams from several different characters, and then the last 15 minutes or so is the ending fight plus a satisfying conclusion. With Joshscorcher's changes plus this being a 2 parter, this could have been one of the best episodes of the entire show.

Even as is, I still love the episode because the dream concept is so cool to me and I find it super fun. But it could have easily have been so much better :( You guys agree or disagree? You have any good defenses for how the episode handled Luna's character and the moral?

File: 2580033.png (2 MB)

2 MB PNG

>>43009213
It was a good episode just because we got so much Luna. But it was so close to being a perfect episode, ruined primarily by the ending where all the ponies just told her to get over it lol so she did.
>>43009444
I don't think it needed to be a two-parter. I think we had all the elements there to really get into it. I think we should have cut down on the dream shenanigans on the big shared dream, maybe even just keep it contained to the mane 6.
Instead, it should have escaped. The big climatic 'oh shit' moment is that Luna's big fear has come true, it's made it into the real world. Luna wakes up the Mane 6, they rush in to find and kill it in the middle of the night...only to find it sitting in front of a lake, looking up at the stars. That was all it wanted.
That's when Luna has to explain. It wasn't a monster she made to punish herself. She ripped out every part of her that she felt made her Nightmare Moon. Every thought, every desire, every part of her personality that she felt made her different, she tore out of herself and made into the Tantabus. Her familial bonds, her anger, and her love of the night sky, all bundled up into something she uses to torture herself, to keep her from ever wanting to feel any of that again.
Instead of telling her to stop feeling guilty, Twilight would convince her to accept that part of herself. The episode's lesson would have been that it's ok to think things people find "bad," that it's ok to be different. It's how you choose to act upon them that matters.

File: 1647095486678.png (812.8 KB)

812.8 KB PNG

>>43009213
One of the best.
Sure the final problem being solved in the end was a bit too easy but for a 22 min episode you're not gonna get any better then that. Regardless of how good or bad of a person/pony you are, guilt sticks with you and it's dangerously easy to drive yourself insane over said guilt, it was fantastic seeing it addressed.
There were also just lots of short funny gags throughout.

>>43009213
No it shouldn't have been about Luna's guilt if anything it should have been about her still harbouring a desire to force people to love the night
Luna never gets any closure in the series. Princess Celestia's just like... oh, you're done with your tantrum? Now get back in the cuck chair Luna

File: 936495.gif (3.3 MB)

3.3 MB GIF

>>43009213
Wasn't this supposed to be the series finale?

>>43009850
>Luna never gets any closure in the series.
Part of what makes the retirement plot in Season 9 even more fucking retarded
Celestia served as the ruler for 1000 more years than her yet they drop at the same time when Luna relatively only just got back?

>>43009879
No, that was MMC. It was the last episode before a mid-season hiatus, though, IIRC.

>>43009993
Magical Mystery Cure would have made such a bad finale lol, in my mind Twilight's Kingdom was the finale, and season 5 was the epilogue

>>43009213
Yes

>>43009850
The rainbow laser insta-fixing ponies is a narrative menace I dislike. Nightmare Night episode easily could have went in a totally different direction by addressing the jealousy and insecurities that plagued her. The early writers were a bit too pussy to tackle anything emotional, perhaps they thought it would be too hard for kids to grasp.

>>43010782
i also dislike the rainbow lasers a lot. at least in nightmare moon's case. with discord, tirek, etc. it's basically just an attack. not particularly inspired or interesting, but still a lot better than with nightmare moon. with her, the only way for it to not just be a brainwashing beam is if you headcanon nightmare moon as an entity at least somewhat seperate from luna that gets destroyed or banished from her by the laser. and the show doesn't imply at all that that could be the case. as far as it's concerned, nightmare moon was literally just luna when she was evil, and the elements just made her not evil anymore.

File: Black Snooty shoots her goo.jpg (493.9 KB)

493.9 KB JPG

>>43010968
Very arguably; This very episode actually sorta could loosely imply that, what with all the black, goopy stuff that is seen splattering off of Luna as she dreams of a hypothetical 'second rainbow cleansing'.
We never saw the details of what happened the first time, and Luna would be the one to know more intimately what it looked like inside the season one rainbow tornado, and this same ejecting of 'something' might have happened then too.
On the other hand it might just not have been particularly thought through and meaningful at all, and the black goop might be just an effect meant to be the physical representation of Luna's own evil thoughts being blasted from her mind.

>>43011039
It's an argument, but it can also be seen as the effects of the Tantabus' magic being blasted away since that is what turns her into Nightmare Moon here. But also, it's a dream. And personally I prefer NMM being Luna's own decision, not a separate entity. Rainbows ex machina are absolutely a valid issue, though.

>>43009213
it was ok

File: the problems with celestia.png (110.7 KB)

110.7 KB PNG

>>43011039
>>43011146
for me the problems with luna and the luna/nmm dichotomy are directly tied to celestia

i really didnt like how the later seasons tried to make celestia and luna silly ponies... if during the whole pillars of equestria/stygian season(s) we had gotten to see young celestia and luna and see how luna felt justified rebelling because young celestia was a gigastacy and she was forced to grow up and mature because she didnt realize how important luna was to her until after she was gone then it couldve retroactively helped lunas character

then after the equestria history channel seasons we could be in the present to help close lunas arc. but considering how badly handled celestia regularly was throughout the show (and considering alicorn twilight) im happy with what we have of luna rather than the even bigger disaster it couldve been

better to be ignored than raped

File: 3316082__safe_artist-colon-ruby_tantabus_pony_g4_high+res_looking+up_raised+hoof_solo_tree.png (4 MB)

4 MB PNG

>>43009213
Needed more Luna and Celestia interaction. One paragraph from Twilight is not enough to resolve the Tantabus issue.

Still, loved the trippy dream visuals, as well as the idea of a nightmare threatening to enter waking life. Folks dismiss nightmares as "just a dream," yet they can and sometimes do become real.

>>43011185
>she didnt realize how important luna was to her
Not possible after 1000 years of peace. Equestria was better off with Luna banished. We almost had absolute kino if harmony required both Celestia and Luna to work together. Imagine if Equestria fell into the dark ages because of Luna's absence. Celestia "taking responsibility" of the moon was so fucking retarded.

File: celestia slidepost.png (131.3 KB)

131.3 KB PNG

>>43011467
yeah thats bad to

>>43009213
>Post season 3 episode
>good

File: 1768451357940.jpg (239.5 KB)

239.5 KB JPG

>>43011908
You are jewish

Bump

>>43009213
yes

>>43009213
No.

>>43011951
What am I if I think season 1 (not 2) had something that no other season really captured. I enjoyed the show a lot through Season 5, and most of season 7 I liked despite it feeling like a completely different show at times.

Does that make me a mormon? I feel like it makes me a mormon.

>>43013184
it means you have an opinion (and not even that uncommon of one). stop trying to force a meme label on everything. that image is the worst thing that's happened to /mlp/ so far this year.

It was an okay episode.

>>43009213
It was okay for bringing the topic of self-harm and guilt into a children's cartoon. I don't think this is an easy feat.