>>2056380
Now do it under load.
Di2 is fucking great and OP sucks fat cocks.

>>2056381
they will enshittify bike parts m8

Yeah I always dump between the highest and lowest gears

>>2056380
Its convoluted and expensive but its literally the best shifting, as of now. Youre just not good enough to care. And thats fine, you should stick with vintage 9 speed or whatever is in that cute webm of yours.

>>2056380
if I had money I would go electronic, no cables to lube

but OP is a retard, imagine unironically posting straight bars tech

ok now show it shifting in index mode

I'm usually the last person to say "you don't need that" but I have never needed to shift like that, what would be the point? You were bombing down a mountain at 40mph and you crashed while you were still in the 11t? Ok great so I'm going to make 99.999% of my shifts worse in exchange for better shifting in the moments after a crash that would probably be fatal anyway, good job unracers you really showed me!

>>2056424
it matters a lot for people who ride crits and stage races. when you are obliged to slam 1300 watts instantly while changing cogs to follow an attack, missing a shift will easily lose a race and will always make life harder than it had to be. if you're not doing a lot of events of that sort then yeah you don't need electronic shifting.

>>2056427
you're telling me you're needing to drop from 11t to 32t instantly, skipping over all the other cogs in one shift, and it's not because you crashed? I've never raced but this seems reeeeally unlikely considering even having mixed brake types in a single race is considered dangerously sketchy

>>2056427
>if you're not doing a lot of events of that sort then yeah you don't need electronic shifting.

there isn't really an argument for mech anymore aside from saving a few hundred bucks at best and being too ret to charge a battery. Routing shifter cables through a onepiece cockpit or through stem is a nightmare too. Now do you need to upgrade your old roadbike because electronic shifting exists? fuck no

>>2056428
no, I'm telling you that when you load up your chain entirely in a high-stress environment with a lot going on, you sometimes miss the exact right timing on dropping 1 or 2 teeth between 100+ cadence pedal strokes and if you miss that shift with 1000 watts loaded, by the time you can correct the mistake your race is cooked.

>>2056424
i think its mostly a mountain bike thing desu

>>2056430
What does that have anything to do with what we're talking about? Did you just want to e-stat about your 1000 watts? /fit/ has a thread for that, I'm sure

>>2056433
because that's why electronic shifting exists...
that's the use-case.

>>2056436
The op pic shows a mechanical shifter going from the smallest to the largest cog in one shift. I said that's cool but there are no real life situations where you need that. In response you started boasting about your watts. If I'm confused, which I am, it's because you're having an argument with a ghost, while responding to me as if you're responding to something I said.

>>2056437
zoomers dont read

>>2056437
>The op pic shows a mechanical shifter going from the smallest to the largest cog in one shift.

gotta be honest. I never looked at the image in the OP or bothered parsing your posts.

>>2056429
>no argument
just off the top of my head, price, weight, simplicity, battery degradation. If your electronic shifting is miles better than your mech, skill issue. Set it up right.
That being said, electronic is the right choice for most people in the same way a CVT is the right choice for most people.

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>>2056429
>Routing shifter cables through a onepiece cockpit or through stem is a nightmare
yes
but then there's a question- why would you route cables through the stem and the frame, when you can just route them outside?
>but muh aero
your yee-ass haircut has more drag than your entire bicycle nigga
>but i bought a new frame with internal routing
upgrade to external routing, easy
>>2056446
>electronic is the right choice for most people
electronic is the right choice for top 0.005%. for everyone else, cable is vastly superior.

>>2056446
>>2056447
cvt is actually the right choice for some cars. particularly low power city cars, like kei cars. also scooters and snowmobiles. not for everyone, but there are valid usage cases.

>>2056436
>>2056437
He thought your comment >>2056424 was about electronic shifting, not the webm in OP.

>>2056447
>vastly superior
Except for batteries and maintenance costs, it's literally better in every way. Honestly sometimes it seems like the batteries are a better trade off than cables some times.

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>>2056429
>Routing shifter cables through a onepiece cockpit or through stem is a nightmare too
uhh you dont have disk brakes?

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>>2056467

>>2056467
When are they doing to make one piece stem/forks?

The feel of cables is divine. Disc and electronic shifting is a fucking joke but the entire world is turning to shit so why shouldn't bikes go the same way.

Watching the entire industry switch to disc was the most pathetic thing I've ever seen and I will never buy a new bike with that shit on it. I encourage all you young noobs to ride a rim brake bike to see what you're missing.

There will be angry autistics in every thread repeating bullshit they heard on GCN like it's a fact. It's not and they're all full of shit. Disc sucks ass

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I don't shift

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>>2056517
OP here, disc brakes are actually superior, unlike electronic shifting. They aren't any more complex, they are far more reliable, require less maintenance, don't care if you taco your wheel so you can limp home with brakes, are MUCH easier to set up (yes, even the single-pull mechanical ones), and nowadays aren't even that much more expensive than rimjobs (especially in the long term, considering rim brakes eat pads much faster and use, well, the rim as a wear item, how wasteful). MT200s are cheap, ubiqtous and just work. Cheap cable disc brakes are usually bad, but if you don't wanna run hydraulics (for example, for winter riding, or round-the-world touring), you can't go wrong with Avid BB7, tried and tested.

>>2056523
sure, but that's only for flat bars. on drop bars the pricing for hydraulic brifters is ridiculous and cable disks suck so you're left with rim brakes as the best option.

>>2056546
nta but hylex aren't expensive and I'm pretty sure there's a couple of china direct brands making reasonably decent hydro brifters now if you don't require prestige stickers all over your bike, I suppose you'll call me a marketing jew now like in the other thread

>>2056546
>cable disks suck
Bad cable disks suck, but it's not 2010 anymore. I've tried a low-end gravel with cable Tektro Miras once and I would take them over any rimjob I've ever tried.

>>2056517
Id have sympathy for rim brake retards if what they said really made any sense. Have you used hydraulic disk brakes? It both function and feels better than anything.

Theres an argument to be made on if most bikes >need< disc brakes, my rod bike still has rim and i love it. But i wouldnt be caught dead mountain biking the way i do with fucking v brakes get real.

>>2056546
Prices can change, china is already making some decent shit

>>2056555
hylex are brake only, no shifting. do you actually get stickers with shimano/sram stuff? i've never seen any
>>2056558
eh it just seems like worst of both worlds to me, there's no way you're getting the nice actuation of the hydraulic levers, and you still have all the weight and bulk compared to rim brakes.
>>2056559
>china is already making some decent shit
like what?

lol

>>2056565
ludds gonna lud

>>2056559
Didn't a bunch of Chinese brakes just fail randomly?
Magnene or something

>>2056564
>eh just seema like the worst of both worlds

Why dont you go and try it?

>>2056568
i've worked on bikes a lot, including a bunch of test riding. mechanical disks did not actuate as nicely as hydraulic, i don't know how you could argue otherwise.

>>2056749
>quality of cables
>quality of housing
>quality of levers
>Cleanliness of everything
>Compressionless brake housing?

I don't know if anything feels as nice as hydraulic but his point was mechanical disk brakes can feel great.

and MY point is that you probably work on shit bikes in your living room and you're talking out of your ass

>>2056517
>electronic shifting

Awful dogshit yes but rim brake enthusiasts are actually mentally deranged. I’m am NOT going back to that squealing barely effective death trap bullshit that constantly needs adjusting and makes your nice rims fucking disposable items.

>>2056749
Mechanical disks don't actuate as nicely as hydraulic, and can't. But we are not comparing hydraulic and mechanical disks, we are comparing mechanical disc and rim brakes, and rim brakes lose that handily.

>>2057186
Dick brakes when you neglected them for too long make scraping noises with each rotor turn or maybe squealing noises because the pads are dirty

Rim brakes shred a hole in the sidewall, and that's a best case scenario

But at least they stop you unlike mech dicks whose only purpose is to make it possible to sell "gravel bikes" for under $800 to clueless noobs

>>2057198
>when neglected

My current pads are sitting at three and a half thousand kilometres of zero care or maintenance and only just looking at replacing them which takes ten minutes maybe.

>dirty pads

Yes, unlike my bicycle rims which stay squeaky clean despite being an inch and a half from the mud, sand, dirt, puddles and all other types of shit? Have never ever had a problem with dirty brake pads whereas fucked up squeaking and shredding rims happened all the time.

>but at least they stop you

In what fucking scenario do rim brakes work and discs don’t? Discs still work and better than rims even if the pads are shredded beyond shit. Discs still work when you taco your wheels, rims do not.

>incoherent seething about gravel bikes despite the fact that pretty much everything off the shelf comes with discs these days

Fuck out of here retard.

>>2057199
Your reading comprehension is really bad, are you the same learning disability fellow as this one?
>>2056436
>>2056430
>>2056428
>>2056427

>>2057201
>no points addressed
>ad hominem

I accept your concession rimtard. Now go buy a new set of wheels.

Love me friction shifters
Simple as

>>2057199
>My current pads are sitting at three and a half thousand kilometres
lol, not the flex you think it is

>>2057229
It’s not a flex retard, now address the points

>>2057243
you are not very smart

>>2057244
No arguments addressed

>>2057206
Me too for derailer but I found it unusable for hub gears. Needed paddles or gears went missing.

>>2056546
Eh. I have disc brakes and drop handlebars. Everything seems normal. There are cables but seeing as I never pivot my front wheel around 360° while steering the issue doesn't come up.

>>2057252
I don't think I've ever experienced hub gears before. QRD?

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>>2057254
They are great. Never go out of adjustment. Can change gear stationary. Chain never wears out as isn't derailing all the time. Just Works.

I have a pair of paddles at the end of the drop handlebar now. The friction shifter it replaced was useless and missed lots of gears but the paddles designed for the gearbox also Just Work.

I would never go back to cogs. Only change I would make is the 11-speed one I got is unnecessary. I am always changing gear two or four gears at a time (i.e. one or two big pushes instead of a small push for one gear). Five gears would have been fine. Only thing that counts is a low enough bottom gear which is anyway defined by the front and back cog sizes not the gearbox. Top gear is very nicely positioned as a fast cruise with the wind behind me on the ratios I have it set up as.

Chain is always perfectly tense. Not needed any maintenance in two years use. Works best when freewheeling to change gear although it will work if you are pedalling, just less certain.

Very easy to get used to. Also very easy to get used to it not wearing out in a few months nor constantly having to make little adjustments to get into highest or lowest as it works perfectly all the time.

disc brakes are shit
electronic shifting is meh
bring back fucking caliper brakes fuck
fuck the entire industry

>>2057254
they weigh a million fucking pounds and you can't service them without autism. and good fucking luck if you get a flat tire and need to pull all that shit off on the road

also they cost a lot

>>2057287
>>2057313
I don't know which of you to believe

>>2057319
if you want to have to do oil changes on your bike and completely disassemble the rear wheel to overhaul your drivetrain while suffering mediocre performance and adding weight to the bike for all of these "benefits" an IGH may be for you

IGHfags are always thirsty for the schadenfreude of subjecting others to the many joys of the internally geared hub

>>2057322
You know bike shops exist right?

>>2057323
you know that bike shop maintenance is strictly a source of comic relief right?

>>2057319
My second opinion:
Yes, very heavy. Also yes, survives without maintainance, works for years now and I treat that bike like shit, outdoor parking and no oil ever. Nope, the chain has gotten somewhat slack over the years anyway. No idea about service or tire change. It runs very quietly.
It's good for classic trainstop bikes, dirty tracks and lazy owners but only for commuting, wouldn't recommend for speed or touring.

>>2057353
peak commuter is hub gears + belt

>>2056517
Hydro is something you smoke from a bong, not something you stop with. If you're riding any bike technology introduced after the reunification of Germany, you're a gullible fred and you should be laughed at

>>2057322
The benefit of canning fucking d*rallieurs is pretty huge

>>2057313
>and good fucking luck if you get a flat tire and need to pull all that shit off on the road
They are definitely harder work to change tires and tubes for. The wheel remains attached because of the gear cable so it is a bit awkward. I have managed it though. Not tried at the side of the road but I only use tires like Marathon Plus and hate punctures.

Weight, trivially more that cogs. I have not tried an oil change but as I understand it you take the hub off and dunk it in new oil. There is an oil hole though so I don't see why you couldn't tip is out and replace. Two years and not tried yet.

I definitely haven't noticed any performance loss. Since I got the bike I had to adjust my riding style to be slower and use less power in some situations as I nearly knocked myself off to begin with, but that is probably more to do with it being correctly sized instead of too small. I am definitely a lot faster than I was and even more so since I learned about counter-steering which I can half-do now.
Logically there must be some performance penalty over cogs as that is only three cogs whereas hub gears have lots of cogs all engaged. I would be interested to learn how much.

>>2057356
The wearing out and constant difficulty with alignment I found to be hugely hasslesome when I rode cog gears. The constant chain scraping wears them out. That was always a far greater performance hit for me compared with the one of having lots of constantly engaged planetary gears which I don't notice and anyway have vastly exceeded by having a better bike.

I also change gears a lot. I am not sure how good a rider that make me. Maybe I overdo it.

>>2057359
>wearing out and constant difficulty with alignment

that's not a thing. without maintenance a chain should last a couple of thousand kilometers, a cassette should last two or three times that, and a rear mech shouldn't need adjustment basically ever and even if you do a full restring for some completely incomprehensible reason re-alignment is simple a matter of going to big ring small cog and making sure you can run through all your gears one click at a time. it takes five minutes at most. any more maintenance than that and there's simply something wrong with your bike.

>>2057361
And yea the hub gear still has the advantage of not dangling off the side of your bike. Ever aligned a derailleur hanger?

Your description sounds true for a bike that never leaves the trainer or tarmac. The modern derailleur system is lovely but you are just afraid to admit that a igh blows it out of the water in terms of reliability

>>2057361
It happened to me with every previous bike. Maybe the tensioner would get bent even if it wasn't just drifting out.

The some cogs would wear out of I used that gear a lot too. Was never running quite right and was faffy to be sure of getting into top or bottom gear.

The hub gear I have now just works, effortlessly. Not needed to adjust it once. Having something that works is a delight to ride.

Maybe if I was willing to spend more time fiddling with cog gears it wouldn't have been so annoying but I never was.

>>2057365
>Ever aligned a derailleur hanger?

why would you? you just replace them.

>igh blows it out of the water in terms of reliability

idk man maybe you just do your daily rides through battery acid? being more reliable than something that is already completely reliable isn't a big deal for most use cases. if I were going to chain a beater up at a train station or university in a winter climate for days or weeks at a time I'd consider an IGH but probably just go with a fixie/ss. I'm not calling you wrong, but I am suggesting that the way you use your IGH bike does not really line up with the way that I use my bikes, and that is probably true of most people.

>>2056380
Speaking of these types of shifters. Should I get these ones for $40 or just get ltwoo's 3x8 shifters which are $10? Or are shimanos atlus shifters better?

>>2057369
My point is that a derailleur hanger doesn’t exist to be bent on an IGH

I feel like you are underestimating the lack of maintenance normal people do to their bikes. I also feel like you’re underestimating the effect of wet/winter weather on derailleurs. I know a shit ton of people with gummed up hybrids which sit unused because they won’t shift well. If IGH were similar in price to derailleurs they would be the norm, and derailleurs would be the “performance” option.

Further more, good derailleurs group sets are indeed great but bottom tier ones one very bad for reliability. Tourney and likes. That cheap shit is on a lot of bikes. Also, even if your derailleur is working well, without some knowledge of shifting you will have some skipping, delays in shifts, cross chaining. Its the same shit why 1x took over, IGH just works.

You think your derailleurs is perfectly reliable because you take care of your bike, but most people don’t even do the minimum. I don’t know you but i feel like actually you’re quite autistic about your bike and you are not representative of most cyclists. I don’t know my perception of the average cyclist is a very low bar, amd they would all love an IGH precisely because it requires absolutely 0 thought.

Also im not that igh guy i don’t even own a igh bike but the benefits of them is extremely evident to me.

>>2057361
>that issue you’re having? Yea, its actually not real and its not happening at all.

>>2057386
>obvious lies are obvious

whoa

>>2057386
Yeah I fucking hate greasy ass derailleur nonsense fiddling with cables to adjust the shifters by millimetres. Oh your bike fell over on the derailleur side while you were getting a beer? Time to find your specific niche hangar and a whole new mech. Get fucked. Waiting for chinaman to set the standard for central pinion style IGH mounts and positions and start mass manufacturing so we can be rid of this ass cancer forever.

Bump because we're getting raided by the NJB crowd again

>>2059707
atleast they are easy to spot.

>>2056517
disc rules because your wheels can be super fucked up and only in alignment with the exoplanets and your brakes still kinda work. also rim brakes fail easily in the rain/snow as crud gets on your rim. discs are marginally harder to soil that badly. and fwiw most shitty cheapo disc brakes are not hydraulic. they are mechanical and still use a cable.

>>2056418
i have never had to seriously lube a shifter cable. cleaning is enough. it's brakes that tend to have crud get in em because of the stupid sleeved metal bend thing whose liner always disintegrates into muck and somehow gets an entire winter's worth of salt in it after one summer rain ride

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>tfw you finally become one with your bike and shift seamlessly from 1st gear to your last gear without once grinding chains

I'm AuDHD and bipolar and once in a manic state I stayed up for like 9 days and invented a 200g retrofit for any derailleur bike that gives it automatic shifting and automated manual. True story. Still have the technical design document lol

>>2060662
License it to a company who can actually market and produce it so you get residuals, given your mental state I would also have an intellectual property lawyer present to help guide you and prevent companies from fucking you over

>>2060649
isn't that just normal shifting? just gently pedal when you shift instead of putting power into it

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>>2060662
that actually sounds interesting, how exactly does that work? with like a flywheel adjusting to wheel rotations like the auto shift or something?

>>2060870
No. It intercepts the shifting cable and ads logic. I invented a clever mechanical trick too where it reverts to regular shifting upon power down without adding drag.

>>2056430
Wow what a tough guy can I have your autograph?

>>2056430
my morning commute will never recover from this

>have 8 speed friction shifting on my classic bike
>pretty good
>want to try 10 speed for more gear range
>oshitniggawatudoin!?
Surely 9 speed is the solution to this problem, right?

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perfection already exists, if you need more you are dumb goonsoomer