>>2057079
>WEF
what nice and trustworthy people to rely on

>>2057079
These are intended to be open-air prisons. No one gets in or out without permission.

France, Paris is Based for the switch to bicycle infra
I'm American

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>>2057081
wow this must be pure hell desu

>>2057088
looks American, the opposite of WEF vision.

The only times I've been to Yurop and not rented a cage was when I was there for work and I never planned on leaving the glittering inner city. You really need a cage to get anywhere useful. Sure HSR can help if you literally just need to get from Paris to Lyon but otherwise the transportation is slow, sparse, and inconvenient.

>>2057081
yess yesss we at the Democratic Citizens for Car Freedom advocacy group, generously supported by Ford-VolksWagen-Audi-Shell-BP inc. and the Saudi monarchy, support this message. They want to trap you in one mode of transportation that makes you subservient and economically dependent to their interests, how evil, hahaha yes.

>>2057095
Being able to travel and choice over the means is a good thing. If people want total car exclusion and dependency on public transport, or needing permission to leave your area, they will choose it.

Revealed preferences are that they don't want that and don't want to be hemmed in. They also want liquid fueled vehicles. That doesn't have anything to do with conspiracy theories about car makers or oil companies. It is ordinary consumer preference.

>>2057097
I live in a Dutch city vastly more radically anti-car than all current 'walkable city' projects you think are an evil plan to become open air prisons. People are still free, people can still drive cars outside of the city center. The vast majority prefer driving bikes once the infrastructure is there for it.

>>2057099
>The vast majority prefer driving bikes once cars are banned and car infrastructure destroyed
ftfy

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european cities are made for driving into on the weekend with your wife

get this communist bug prison bullshit outta here

>>2057088
thats literally one of the most american pictures ever, its literally a drive through and you dont see a single part of the ground thats meant for pedestrians there, they just made it look sorta mediterranean
>>2057118
i would say that once you reach certain population density, cars just become borderline useless because you just dont have space to allow people to use them
theres nothing commie about the logical choice to make a city center pedestrian only, you actually give more activity to stores on the street because you dont actually have to purposefully park on an specific parking lot, you're just on a leisure walk and can pick any store which is comfy and gives you more choices and ideas for buying stuff, stopping for coffee or whatever

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>>2057124
would you daily use your car in new york

>>2057118
The cage is how they debt slave you into a perpetual string of debt from cage to cage. You can't be free if you have debt, that's how they enslave you

>>2057182
>can't afford a few grand without debt
cyclists, everyone

>>2057182
>poor fag
That's a you problem.

>>2057088
I'm American and without further details I would assume that picture was Miami or at least somewhere in Florida.

>>2057099
I always found it interesting that "having public transit options is about choice!" crowd won't ever advocate for a comprehensive freeway system in cities that lack one.

>>2057487
cities are for people to live in, not for highways to cross through
the logical thing to do is to have the freeways/highways surround the city, why would you waste away the most valuable, densely populated land of the city for a highway? you use the outskirts and build a ring or something of the likes, so that you can travel to opposite sides of the city actually faster by surrounding it with light traffic at a normal high way speed rather than driving through the center in dense traffic in a "highway" thats completelly filled with slow cars

>>2057097
>It is ordinary consumer preference.
Well then that should be stopped

>>2057488
Building freeways/highways through the city is most effective. Cope with your poor fag unable to afford a car ass.

I've been noticing more and more t/o/urists coming to /n/ to shill for cages or shit up the threads with troll posts. Still not taking your bait. Please stop spewing fumes, noise, and microplastics into my local park. That would be greatly appreciated.

>>2057509
>I can't handle criticism
>This is clearly another board's fault
Boring. No one from /o/ posts here to fuck with you. Come up with something new

>>2057488
>cities are for people to live in, not for highways to cross through
Highways are infrastructure, it's used to get around and transport goods and services. There's no prize in seeing who can cram the most warm bodies into a 1km*1km space.
>why would you waste away the most valuable, densely populated land of the city for a highway?
One of the reasons why downtown land is so valuable is that it is easily accessible. I don't buy the "wasting valuable real estate space" argument because especially in Europe railways go straight through the middle of the city (and are as wide as freeways anyway), and still contribute to the center of town being highly valuable land-wise. Frankly the land value argument doesn't really work because what usually ends up happening is the land becomes so valuable literally nothing but a skyscraper is worth building on it, so it just stays a parking lot.
>you use the outskirts and build a ring or something of the likes
The outskirts are going to be a moving target anyway.
>so that you can travel to opposite sides of the city actually faster by surrounding it with light traffic at a normal high way speed rather than driving through the center in dense traffic in a "highway" thats completelly filled with slow cars
The inside highway is usually for commuters and local traffic. One of the reasons why the inner highways are so slow is lots of people entering and exiting, and even then that only happens during peak hours.

>>2057514
>There's no prize in seeing who can cram the most warm bodies into a 1km*1km space.
those warm bodies are already living in the city, you're cramming them further if you give up most of the streets for cars
The city streets are for citizens to use, not a pass-through for drivers
Thats why tokyo has really good quality of life and access to amenities while LA is suffering extreme urban sprawl
Zoning laws in USA also make basic ammenities require a 10-30 minute drive whereas in most of europe and asia its a 5 minute walk if even that long

>>2057515
You don't live in the US, how would you know how things are here?

>>2057516
i watched enough youtube videos to know

>>2057094
>You really need a cage to get anywhere useful.
Menteur menteur menteur. Kill yourself.

>>2057123
>Yes, the Esplanade Lake Club is designed to be a walkable community, with internal walking trails and the ability to walk to its own amenities like the clubhouse, restaurant, and sports courts. It is also located near other walkable areas for shopping and dining, such as the Gulf Coast Town Center.

>>2057521
>>2057515
>i watched enough youtube to know
I have never seen a "urbanist" video that wasn't full of shit, every single one of them has some egregious flaw that wasn't discussed or outright lies and I can prove it
>make basic ammenities require a 10-30 minute drive
This is completely invented horseshit but Europeans and shut-ins fall for it every time

>>2057534
Fuck off Shlomo.

>>2057521
Clearly you haven't.
>>2057515
>Zoning laws in USA also make basic amenities require a 10-30 minute drive
This one is mostly a myth. You can tell a complete retard the minute he starts drooling on about "zoning" being the reason for America's car-centric infrastructure. The average distance from a grocery store is like 3-4 miles(<10 minutes), and that number is inflated by people who choose live far away on purpose (or they live on a farm).

Non-Americans accustomed to smelling their neighbors' farts from their living room and walking to get groceries 4+ times per week experience culture shock trying to do the same thing in the US, but "10-30 minute drive for basic shit" is an exaggeration. If you live 30 minutes from groceries it's because you chose to live someplace very rural.

>Tokyo vs LA
LA is suffering from extreme mismanagement and illegal immigration. LA's uniquely fucked car-centric design is the least of its problems right now.

https://youtu.be/shtn5ODPmQE
https://youtu.be/W2nB0zchM4I

>>2057577
Buy an ad shithead

>>2057578
Ladbrokes. We keep you broke, lad.

WEF/ EU subsidies?
1234567890-% they're trying to make it so that the insurance payout actually covers rebui;d cost

>>2057577
If your voice is that retarded-sounding you shouldn't make YouTube videos. Not talking about the Scottish guy I'm suppose that's comprehensible to other Scots. Talking about the drooling Chink.

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>>2057577
with that second video, it wasn't until about the past 10 years (i'm 28 now) that i realised that i was living in the exact same type of neighbourhood: newly built out in the city fringes over what used to be countryside, most of the lots around my house were empty, never saw a single soul walking around, boring and lonely. it wasn't until i started thinking in the past few years about old video games that i used to play in my bedroom in the mid to late 2000s that i remembered that my mum always used to ask me while i was playing "why don't you go to the park?" in which i would respond "ok", then put my shoes on and walk the 150 seconds in a straight line - as there were no houses - to the large but barren park with about 6 small trees planted, swing on the swings by myself and ride down the weird slide which didn't have side walls for some reason and i'd get bored in about 20 minutes and go home. i don't think i ever saw anybody at that park ever in the 4 or so years that i lived there

that neighbourhood helped greatly in forming my opinions on urbanism later in my life but i never realised it until recently

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>>2057613
>I had no friends growing up
>obviously this was the fault of city planners and no other reason

>>2057618
i had to move schools because i moved to that neighbourhood and my old friends were too far away to visit regularly
it took quite a while for me to make new friends at school because i became more withdrawn and maybe even a little depressed after the move

>>2057516
I don't live in or have ever been to India and yet I know it's loud and stinks and is full of trash and shit, funny how that works. Almost like there is some sort of information superhighway where you can find out stuff about places without physically having to go there.

>>2057625
Interesting thought but you're still wrong about the US, foreigner

>>2057550
>The average distance from a grocery store is like 3-4 miles(<10 minutes)
...by car...

>>2057577
>>2057613
i had the same issue iwth lack of socializing and playing but because my father was extremelly controlling and thought it "wasnt good to be in the streets" so i barely socialized or played at all with any children and spent most of my childhood locked at home, alone, which heavily impacted my social skills and i will probably never be able to connect socially with other people in a normal way thanks to that bullshit

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>>2057630

The land around an urban-crossing freeway is a fucking blighted zone. A bunch of graffiti-ed concrete, storage shacks with dodgy construction permits, derelict cars and hobos.
The most valuable land in that city looks like the gypsy slum at the edge of a Romanian town.

>>2057627
You haven't even been to every state in the US, what would you know about life there

>>2057629
That's actual supermarkets, not convenience store/food marts. Those can be found just about anywhere. Even in the sprawling, master-planned communities it's a 15-minute walk by foot.

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>>2057629
>...by car...
Yes, moron, that's what I said. I'm not disputing that most of the US has car-centric infrastructure.
I even emphasized this in the post, which you were too lazy or illiterate to finish.

The tard I was responding to was claiming 10-30 minutes by car, implying an average of a 20 minute drive for basic necessities. That is just a ridiculous and not at all what it's actually like.

>>2057625
Why don't we play a game where we drop a random streetview pin somewhere in the United States and India and see what comes up.

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>>2057849
Why does that suburban street need to be 4 lanes wide when judging by the tar snakes they can barely afford to maintain it properly?

>>2057851
>4 lanes wide
Foreigner can't even count

>>2057191
NTA but the world is changing in ways that I like and you hate, sounds like the only one with a problem is you.

>>2057630
Well, I grew up running through the gardens and parks until our parents were calling like an hour after sunset with a group of about 14 neighbourhood kids. I still turned out akward because most people today just don't operate socially like our little gang back then.

>>2057852
Only 3 lanes in America because your cars are so fat

>>2057856
>t. poor
Enjoy getting stabbed on the cattle cart.

It's not an issue of europe vs the states, I find it hard to choose between rural and city living in general.

>>2057079
>WEF
Those are just a bunch of rich retards trying to clean their image and failing miserably, I don't understand why they are seen as the new Illuminati for the online schizos

Fucks sake, hate the people get this “let’s get back to stone age and get walking again”. Our ancestors invented steam engines for a reason, which likely was the bmw x6. But in all seriousness, live in Helsinki and it’s obnoxious how inconvenient it is to drive downtown.

>>2059735
Fixing downtown traffic is impossible without tearing up the city apart, and only because there would not be a downtown by then.
So after 50-60 years of trying to deal with the problem the new approach is to simply not allow the cars in the downtown.

>>2059813
Then maybe downtown shouldn't exist at all if it's such a shithole. It's not like there's any need for it in the age of automobile and logistical flexibility it affords.

>>2059827
Downtown is not a shithole except if you go by car.
We are not gonna destroy the landmarks and identity of all cities so suburbanites don't get angry when they are forced out of their pods and have to interact (be in the same place) with other people

>>2057080
Nigga, this is the modern world, you can't walk to the store to purchase a bunch of bananas without at least seven kabals of elite pedophiles benefiting from the action.

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Suburbs are not the result of car-centric infrastructure, in fact, they were originally built for bicycles, and the first suburbs started appearing at the turn of the 20th century during the Bike Craze of the time which allowed people to commute longer distances as bikes were far more accessible to middle and lower class people and the original market for the first cars were richfags

This is still the case today, most suburbs I would describe as "bikeable" infrastructure, they're specifically designed for slower traffic. I think the problem is people conflate walkability and bikeability but these aren't the same thing, a town can be bikeable but not be particularly walkable. Most American suburbs aren't Levittown's, that's mostly a strawman version of American suburbs if anything.

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>>2060155
>Suburbs
You should least acknowledge how nebulous a term "suburb" is. Most "suburbs" from the 19th century are just part of the inner city now.
In most modern contexts, when you say the word "suburb", 99% of people immediately think of just postwar car-centric neighborhoods.
>Most American suburbs aren't Levittown's, that's mostly a strawman version of American suburbs if anything.
In the flyover states, they definitely are. No strawman there, just real houses and roads.
t. from a flyover city

>>2060155
the first suburbs in Atlanta were all built around streetcar stops. you can tell because each one still has the commercial district around where the station used to be. but it was only a few and they're just city neighborhoods now.
the cars killed off the streecar and all the subsequent growth is all car centric sprawl with no central planning at all, like most of the country outside the NE corridor. flyover anon is right, in the US, suburbs are car communities. the US did have a bike boom back then but I don't know of any suburban areas that were driven by their growth, but if so they're just city neighborhoods now like the old streecar suburbs are.

>>2060164
>the cars killed off the streetcar
Even by the late 1920s diesel technology had matured enough to let transit companies switch to buses which were cheaper and more flexible than streetcars. In the mid 30s the government made power companies divest their streetcar systems. Atlanta, Gainesville, and other Georgia cities' streetcars were pretty much all owned by local utilities that were sold or spun off (same for every other system in the nation owned by a power company).

Public regulators also weren't responsive to requests by the operators to increase fares, so streetcar systems didn't have enough revenue to maintain much less expand their systems into new suburban developments. Public authorities ended up taking them over and in most cases inherited streetcar systems with aging rolling stock and ROWs that had so much deferred maintenance that a case to buy new streetcars and fix tracks couldn't be made. So they all started running buses if they even survived at all.

>with no central planning at all
YIMBYs will say this and in their next post complain about how bad zoning is.

I would like to say that the NYC Commissioners Plan of 1811 is one of the best examples of urban central planning EVER.

>>2060164
>>2060157
Levittown's must largely be a flyover thing, even here in California (a state that's often branded heavily car-centric) I wouldn't describe any of the suburbs here as being Levittown's, they're too broken up by public parks and strip malls within reasonable biking distance, and this is even true for the postwar/post redcar developments

>>2060172
People who think California is exceptionally car-centric have never been outside California and think that the movie Grease is a documentary.
No offense to you, Anon.

>>2060164
This essentially still exists in parts of Europe, just on a slightly bigger scale around the suburban rail lines, and usually it was pre-existing villages which turned into suburbs. They're usually centered around the station with commerce and higher density development near it, then lower density residential areas a bit further away. Sometimes you can even appreciate how there was an original town center and a new center developed around the station.

>>2060166
He says
>central planning
but it's not really what he's describing, which is organic centrality. If you have a place where many people move to for transportation it will obviously become attractive for both commercial and residential development, while further away gets less demand and consequently less activity and less density. With rail transport you automatically get this central point of movement which generates this centrality and consequently varied development, while the absence of it and high car usage generates large swaths of identical development lacking centrality which is essential to the organic urban growth.

>>2060155
Suburbs are the byproduct of better transportation methods, the first ever case of suburbanization happened in Amsterdam in the XVIII century as people used boats to commute to their jobs in the city.
The modern car centric suburb appeared in the mid XX century as developers, politicians and bureaucrats mixed the ideas of the garden city (low density) with Le-Corbusier urban ideas (car centric city).
The result was a new type of suburb where people are isolated from their neighbours and have to use the car for everything.

>>2057079
Bro, I weep for you and you are totally in the right, but being unreasonable. Pick your battles. Its a slight return to sanity. Be grateful.

>>2057081
>stares out the only front windows of his tract home (no side windows cause only 10 feet from another pigeon hole), at exactly the same house across the street
>destroyed the world for this
>endless tax assrape
>further emboldening hillary to stand in the middle of everything in her self importance
>"I am free"

>>2063997
>another shill bump 1+ month later seething at a random thing

>>2064001
I wonder what his game is

>>2057079
imagine being this poor

>>2064001
>>2064007
>saving good threads
Diabolical. If only anyone else was so noble. This site might be usable.

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>>2064071
generation alpha discovers urpoorposting

>>2064128
>good threads
thread unrelated?

>>2059735
>live in Helsinki and it’s obnoxious how inconvenient it is to drive downtown
Based, wish more cities did that.

>>2064130
>more prescient thread on board
>has to ask
There is your problem.

>>2064138
and the urbanist finally reveals himself

>>2064139
>prescient
>it's just communist kids sucking up to billionaire technocrats

>>2064143
>being this backward about theft (taxes).

>>2064142
>cagie got mad
Lmao

>>2064145
i'm actually quite content that you reveal your actual motives instead of hiding behind "alternative transportation" "economic benefits" or "accessibility" facade like you always do. if every urbanist immediately revealed himself as the astroturfed r/fuckcars lunatic he is then public policy could be a lot easier and more beneficial for society.

>>2064147
Dude, I get it. If I got memed into shelling out thousands to buy a deprecating asset that doesn't even allow me to get where I want to comfortably, I would be mad too. Don't know what urbanists got to do with it, but I can understand your frustration and your general aggressiveness.

>>2064150
i've already told you that i'm content with you behaving the way you are and the whole situation. keep it up and we'll all end up in a better world like that.

>>2064151
How? If you and most people remain deluded?

>>2064153
if you keep acting like this then fewer people will be deluded about your intentions and goals, leading to the collapse of your anti-human ideology, your ostracization and eventual suicide, making the world a much more pleasant, empathetic and kind place. so please do keep the mask off, even if it slips naturally it's enough to fool unsuspecting bystanders on occasion.

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>>2064155
not him but yes, you are very intelligent.

>>2064155
Humanity COULD BE what it should (miracle of the universe). Humanity as it is (you) destroys the greatest miracle in the known universe.....awaken all to that, (hopeless as it seems) is a moral obligation. Yet another thing you fail to understand. So what fucking "mask" is there, brainiac?

>>2064159
Love that one panel. Why is it cropped like that?

>>2064160
star trek liberalism was a mistake

>>2064160
>So what fucking "mask" is there, brainiac?
For someone so insistent on projecting your selfish ignorance on others you sure have little self awareness.

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>>2064159
upvoted! wait until r/communism sees this!

>>2064160
>Humanity as it is (you) destroys the greatest miracle in the known universe
Mom and dad are literally destroying our planet by having a backyard so i will teach them a lesson by forcing everyone on a bus, importing foreigners, taxing energy and pushing more manufacturing out to China.

>>2057079
>becoming
lets be real here. everyone who lives in the western parts of europe knows how slow and painful meaningful change is thanks to bureaucracy. I assume most people here are in their early 30's +-5 years. By the time you guys notice the change (if you do at all) you are probably around an age where you cant or even want to use a bike or go by foot. talking about 20-30 ears into the future.

>>2064198
I live in a big city of Western Europe, and I have seen significant change in how walkable the city center has been, not only in the big cities but also in the smaller ones.