>>28822769
hatchbacks are hugely popular in europe and no power came in them ,but people wanted some speed, thus hot hatches became a thing. tehres a reason usa has no hothatches and they arent popular

>>28822933
>tehres a reason usa has no hothatches
I see Golf GTIs and Cooper S's all the time

>>28822769
How hatches are more about short wheelbases and stiffer suspension rather than power.

It just needs red accents tbqh.

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>>28823542
Yeah, I was wondering why some people count Golf Gti as a hothatch but not Golf R.

>>28822962
I've heard lots of different definitions lately of what isn't a hot hatch: Yaris GR isn't a hot hatch because it's AWD. New Cooper S isn't a hot hatch because Mini removed paddle shifters, while true hot hatch is MT-only. Golf R/S3/RS3 is an abomination and not a hot hatch for these reasons.

Taking all that together means, there are literally no hot hatches made anymore.

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>>28822769
>200bhp/ton = nippy
>250bhp/ton = quickish
>300bhp/ton = fast

Then these DSG gearboxes came in and kinda distorted these golden rules

>>28825200
AWD also fucks with it. Really, to be accurate, you’d need to combine power/weight ratio with a coefficient of powertrain efficiency and probably also drag coefficient to get an exact answer.

>>28825200
why do weebs keep doing that? it means beginner

>>28825200
>brake horsepower
Power at the wheels.
A new standard needs to be, as the car is advertised, the power at the wheels. That gives the real usable output.

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>>28823620
Hatchback in a sporty trim with some power = hot hatch
Can be front/rear/all wheel drive, manual automatic, 3 or 5 doors, gas or electric
There's no real upper limit for price or performance
And at the bottom of the spectrum there's the "warm hatch", usually the biggest regular engine variant combined with most hot hatch features like seats, trim, suspension for those that can't afford insurance

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>>28822769
i just think the hatchback shape is cool. only coupe sports cars look better

Whatever Swift's ratio is, that's the answer. Suzuki means sex.

>>28825256
Has anyone ever made a diesel hot hatch?

>>28827572
If you count them as hothatches, there's a Diesel ST I believe it unironically has the highest output Transit engine, the Golf GTD and the Mini Cooper SD.

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>>28822769
low weight = king
miss me with all these high powered heavy fat turds, the Swift Sport is the closest thing to the original hot hatches of the 80s/90s

>>28827594
why do they send power to the front wheels? is it a manufacturing defect?

>>28827595
Most of the original hot hatches were fwd so even more reason why they're the closest to the originals

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>>28827572
I didn't exclude diesels on purpose, but >>28827593 mentioned a couple, Toyota Auris and the 2nd gen Megane were also available like that.
There were 2 phases of sporty turbodiesel hatches, in the early 90s and then again in the 2010s
IMHO most if not all of these fall more in the "warm hatch" category though

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Are these bad cars or not?

>>28827717
No they’re a lot of fun and useful which is why they’re so popular.
With that said I hate FWD.

holy shit amerifaggots

first of all hot hatches are gay, second of all having actually driven one as an ENGLISHMAN i can tell you the mini is shit and steers like fucking ass. it's also unreliable garbage and they all leak.

Its a piece of shit BMW, they are unreliable pieces of shit for browns.

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>>28827717
2000-20014 (black) are fun to drive but suffer from questionable build quality, some weird engineering quirks and, for some variants, unreliable engines
2015+ (red )are BMW-based, much more reliable but also larger and not nearly as agile
There are several different auto transmissions, 6/7/8spd, one should be avoided but can't rememember which atm

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>>28827727
>first of all hot hatches are gay
Nonsense. Everyone I know who ever own a hot hatch was heterosexual and sexually active above average. I probably never seen Golf Gti/R roaming around without a woman sitting in passenger seat.
>mini is shit and steers like fucking ass. it's also unreliable garbage and they all leak.
Luckly Mini was acquired by BMW in 1990s and ever since it's fun to drive with reliable.

>>28827717
I had a 2005 Cooper S for 3 trouble free years and loved it, sold it last year and kind of regret it but was moving and just didn’t need it anymore. From what I understand and as the other anon said I probably got lucky with the build quality/maintenance on mine
>>28827759
Man, didn’t realize they’d grown about half a foot length-wise, and the hood on the newer ones is way taller. I always loved just how good the forward visibility was with the low hood on mine. Bummer, was thinking about another one.

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>>28830058
>didn’t realize they’d grown about half a foot length-wise
Nowadays Cooper convertible has more spacious cabin than Porsche 911 convertible (reminder that 911 was considered D-segment/large when it was released). I'm not saying it's a bad thing, because it's literally the only 4-seat convertible that is available in Europe at reasonable price, but Mini isn't mini anymore.

>>28830058
>3 trouble free years
That's pretty good for ANY 20 year old performance car to be honest, mostly due to the sort of people that usually own used sporty cars

>>28830063
>Mini isn't mini anymore
no car is mini. you can't legally build a small vehicle anymore. the smart wouldn't pass regs today

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>>28830063
That's not unique to Mini, basically every model has gone up a segment over the last 30 years

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>>28827717
R56 are fairly light weight, great visibility, easy to drive, great handling, roomy interior given the size. MT6 is solid. Engine is dogshit though...water pump, thermostat housing, garbage-tier plastic crossover pipe, cheap weak timing chain and guides. All of these should be replaced as preventative maintenance every 80k, which is an engine out job out of practicality, and since the engine's out you're also doing the "while you're in there" stuff such as crank seals, clutch kit, input shaft and drive axle seals, etc.

So two/three weekends of labor and $1k in parts every 5 years just to hopefully prevent the engine from fragging itself. Realoem and RockAuto are your friends. You better have cash on hand or be able to do the work yourself. Labor cost for this will be something like $3-5k.

All this for 120hp fwd...

the only hot hatches were the insane brutal concept cars with rear engines.
your zippy mom-mobile is not.

>>28832735
And are high-strung turbo'd 4bangers built off an already unreliable engine. The maintenance interval for the timing set goes to down to 60k miles. The base model is already a labor of love. If you're buying a 15yo BMW assembled in England from parts made in Romania on a French engine, and it's got a turbo on top of all that, just be prepared for the associated upkeep.

And here I was thinking a hot hatch means having a decent suspension, sporty tuned, in a lightweight vehicle with a responsive engine geared to keep you in the powerband. Because a hot hatch is about an enjoyable sporty driving car, not race speeds and dick measuring.

Power as a requirement? 150hp/ton I guess.
The formula basically leads us to the GR86.

>>28827727
>muh gay

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I like mine

>>28827572
Golf GTD 1.9PD were seriously quick for a diesel. And understeery.

>>28830040
>2023