Is there a more meaningless sentence than this? Yeah sure they predicted atoms but some of them also thought everything was made of fire.
The actual real thing the greeks gave us was a word for what became God. Fate. Some of the best scientists today are working on it calling it Super Determinism. It's all psychological goblydgook but who hasn't felt the hand of fate every now and again.
>>16988193 I don't know. What's YOUR problem? Humans interpret reality in terms of spatial relationships but what does reality itself need space for? It should be perfectly happy with them only being implicit in its mathematical structure.
What we consider reality is just a mathematical collection of all possible universe states transformed by all possible laws into the multiverse. All moments in all possible universes are mathematically consistent, therefore to the embedded minds they are reality. Mathematical structure IS existence WITHIN the structure. Embedded minds cannot distinguish “mathematically instantiated” from “metaphysically real,” because all evidence available to them is generated internally by the structure itself. If a structure fully generates observers, causality, memory, physics, and self-consistent experience, then “being reality” is indistinguishable from “being experienced as reality by embedded observers.”
The argument is not necessarily that mathematical existence and metaphysical existence are proven identical, but that privileged metaphysical status becomes explanatorily idle if it produces no internally accessible consequences.
If reality has additional properties, they either causally interact, leading to distinct differences, or they do not. In either case they must be described mathematically, which collapses us back to a mathematical timeline.
My position is that either everything possible is real in some timeline or other, or nothing is real. Our local embedding forces a limited perspective on reality.
Logic exists because it's possible. This is the predicate on which the multiverse hangs, and it's load bearing for all reality.
>if you remove the objects in it, space itself disappears Space is a medium through which things relate to each other. If everything disappeared, space continues to exist in this sense as it, itself, becomes defined by the spontaneous disappearance of everything in its new form of indefinite nothingness. Perhaps death itself yields the ultimate tableau of nothingness for preserving everything that ever occurred, because space, in this state, is related to everything that once existed.
>>16988373 Relativity is bullshit tho. Lorentz ether needs space. >>16988247 >>16988193 >>16988208 Space is needed to even measure things. Read kant. Where do you think your object is existing? In a tensor? No, in space.
>>16988193 I heard in a Witten interview that the consensus is that it's impossible to make a theory that can explain all the complexity of the universe (both quantum mechanics and gravity) with the current assumptions about the universe because that leads to mathematical equations that are too simple to support such complex behaviours So string theory solves this by inventing 11 dimensions and LQG solves it by throwing away the traditional idea of space
>>16988201 >they predicted atoms wrong. atomic theory is derived from philosophical atomism, which was alive in a continuous tradition until atomic theory was developed.
>>16991211 it also partly arises out of mathematical and empirical practicality for modellng. limitations of our minds. but the idea of a fundamental particle, and other philosophical quirks that are not strictly needed for modelling, obviously comes from atomism.