>>97396518
Based no shame enjoyer, rock on dude.

I'm not the biggest fan of it but I don't get the hate either. Comes across as fags just being contrarian or getting mad about the cyberpunk spinoff being anti-authoritarian (who would have fucking guessed?). The system is pretty basic but the artstyle is flashy and introduces people to OSR-adjacent gameplay which helps fund the scene so it's alright in my eyes

>>97396518
It's a rice cake that's been dyed black and sprinkled with red salt. Devoid of any real substance, but it is technically a food that you can eat.

Happy for you, if you enjoy it.
For myself, I don't see the point. It's a system and setting I could just homebrew in half an hour, which comes in a fancy overpriced package.
Something like Vermis makes for a cooelr coffee table book.

For me, it's Blue Rose.

>>97397398
Blue Rose is actually good tho
And has a fucking system with it.

It’s like the exact opposite of Mork Bork

>>97396518
I quite enjoy it too, currently checking out Star Borg though.

I don't mind games that refuse to pull their punches, and don't treat PCs as special, but Mork Borg is just too high lethality for me

>>97397459
Mork Borg is more like some swedish tryhard's napkin scribbles. The actual game, such that it is, exists more in the minds of people with years of experience, rather than on the actual page. Seeing as it teaches and offers practically nothing, the only way anyone can get anything out of it is by already being the exact kind of person who might write a "game" like Mork Borg, while drawing on the mechanics, rules, monsters, and concepts that other games freely and openly present to players, because they aren't being pretentious hipster shitheads about it.

>>97398260
lol u mad

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>>97396625
>I don't get the hate either
It's very much a product of style over substance and shallow as a puddle of piss.
Last time there was a Borg thread someone said something along the lines of "It's a game that wants to be Berserk when really it's Dokuro-Chan" and that's pretty much on point.

>>97397459
Blue Rose, to its credit, knows exactly what it wants to be and plays that to the hilt.
You can certainly pick flaws with its setting (Deertatorship, am I right guys) but it's true to its origins and itself if nothing else.
And that's respectable in an age of vague defensive insincerity.

>>97396518
Seems like a cool game but the book itself is trash

>>97398293
>It's a game that wants to be Berserk
It WANTS to be so shallow and free of substance that the creator masturbated himself to death (to loli) before he figured out what to do with the plot after the big dramatic tweest that is the only thing people remember about it?

>>97396518
>No content post
These threads are just like the books
>>97398335
>It WANTS to be so shallow and free of substance
Checks
>that the creator masturbated himself to death (to loli)
Might as well be, the blurb sounds like closet-pedo puritanism
>before he figured out what to do with the plot after the big dramatic tweest that is the only thing people remember about it?
Well, yeah, the game is vaguely without long-term objectives and hides it behind the world end tweest mechanic.

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>>97396625
>Comes across as fags just being contrarian
That describes the writers and playerbase.

>>97398293
I never got the impression that MB was anything other than tongue through cheek about it's grim derp aesthetic.

>>97398379
nta but yeah that's why I enjoy it. It's bleak as hell and so vague that the end of days can't help but make me grin

>>97396518
the dev team insist upon themselves

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Everytime I play a character in Mork Borg I have a blast. I think it's the perfect mix of over the top edgyness and the fact that the characters are by default crude and stinky assholes that brings out the magic at the table. In my experience even first timers or inexperienced gamers hop on the wagon like I've never seen them do in other kinds of games. School walkout for my favorite mork borg character who was eaten by rabid dogs at the end of a dungeon

>>97396518
MYERK BYERG

>>97398642
Tell us more about your games then anon.

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I dont understand why there is always a fight about this game. Anyway here's some minis in that style.

>>97396518
It's a good coffee table book, but I think it's barebones in terms of playability and changes enough to lose compatibility with OSR modules for no good reason.

I like what Pirate Borg does. I think it offers some novel solutions to the problems of a seafaring campaign.

>>97399201
It's a lot like Apocalypse World in the way that the spin-offs and hacks and 3rd party content is exponentially better than the original game ever was... but also a lot like PBTA games in that most of them are not especially good with a few exceptions.

>>97396518
It's gay in the same way gay bars are gay. They're really gay but I know I'd never accidentally walk into one so I don't care.

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>>97399148
Sure: the last game of Mork Borg I played was a small oneshot I GMed for my group when one of our players couldn't show up for our weekly session.
I used All dogs go to hell for LotFP and tweaked it a bit in order to adapt it to Mork Borg. The players are: a wretched nobility who has a follower named Hamfund and a cursed sword that makes you explode whenever you roll the max damage, a forlorn philosopher who has the tablet that reanimates a person, a gutterborn scum and a occult herbmaster. Mind you that the girl who plays the forlorn philosopher is very shy and whenever we play our normal D&D games she rarely talks but in this case despite having rolled a character who has a severe speech impediment she roleplays a lot. Anyway they have to reach the monastery which has gone silent after a plague outbreak and retrieve a stone that is said to cure said illness (the plague is a sentient entity which can be bargained with). They are attacked by a rabid bear and Hamfund carries them during the combat but sadly he dies right before the bear is killed. After the encounter they revive Hamfund (who knows wants revenge against his master because after this death experience for the first time he was truly free) and a talking dog (who is secretly been infected by the plague) shows up and asks them to follow him. They arrive at the monastery and a bandit dressed up as a monk tries to trick them into thinking that the monks are performing an important ritual. The dog barks and they attack him and enter the monastery. The bandits engage in a combat and almost kill them when Hamfund strikes the captain dealing maximum damage and by doing so he explodes in a cloud of guts and blood. The dog asks them to retrieve the stone from the corpse of the captain and to deliver it to another country, they don't buy it and attack the dogs. They kill him and use the stone against the plague, thus ending the adventure.

>>97398642
>over the top edgyness
but no heckin racism or transphobia!

>>97399158
>I dont understand why there is always a fight about this game.
Some anons are just big mad.

>>97399158
Style over substance and the style is pretentious hipster bullshit while the substance is "what if made D&D even worse?"

>>97399158
>>97402886
>>97403020
Read in order.

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>>97403156

>>97399158
>I dont understand why there is always a fight about this game.
Easy, i'll show you.
>>97402359

>>97396518
You have never played this game in your life.

>>97403554
See >>97398272

>>97403554
Hardly an opinion, you need only look at the seething in this thread.

>>97397169
There is also not much in it mechanically. It reads like a assortment of random ideas, where the author sometimes gave up mid-segment and just moved on to next half-baked table of whatever. And graphical design-wise I thought it was interesting at first, but wondered after reading why they don't just offer a clear written version of the rules with it, that aren't in a random order, in random formats, randomly strewn across pages, but then I realized that, it's probably like this in first place, because if you had in regular format, you'd immediately see, again, how little there is actually in there.

>>97404229
>why they don't just offer a clear written version of the rules with it
they do >>97399201

>>97404229
>>97404276
Did you link that post because it has the word "barebones" in it even though it doesn't mention the plain text barebones edition of MB? But yes, there is a plain text version on their website, which they give away for free, unintentionally highlighting that the book they sell for around $40 is nothing but a barely usable artbook masquerading as a game.

>>97404342
>a barely usable artbook masquerading as a game.
So it's like an OSR game but with art?

>>97397459
Fantasy age 2e is probably the worst system I have ever played. At the time I got it I was convince it was THE new system I was switching too. Was even gearing up to buy blue rose to have more options. Holy shit how wrong I was. I basically switched to a different system mid session it was so bad.

>>97405184
What about it was bad, as someone who has never seen the system mechanics

>>97396518
I feel like I appreciate MorkBorg for what it is, I've not played it, or even read it, but a part of me likes the thought of an rpg where everything ties back to it's intended tone even if it's a bit shallow.
The designers do seem a bit like chumps though.
>>97404342
>>97404364
Isn't it basically a Microlite20 variant?

>>97405521
The whole thing ran pretty clunky. But the nail in the coffin was one of the heavy armors offered so much damage reduction that the character was completely invincible to every enemy I had prepared.

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>>97396518
Game's incomprehensible garbage.

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>>97404229
>It reads like a assortment of random ideas, where the author sometimes gave up mid-segment and just moved on to next half-baked...
So, like this >>97402349

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I ran a fair bit of Mörk Borg and wasn't too big of a fan, but I respect it. Being able to read it in native swedish definitely made it more enjoyable to read, but that doesn't really translate to fun gaming.

That said, I really liked Tania Herrero's adventures, conceptually and artwise. Crown of Salt is more of a toybox where you have to built a solid foundation for an adventure, rather than something you run exactly as written (not super keen on the sheer prevalence of instant death shit but oh well)

But they made another adventure called Pit of Blasphemy, which I really liked. It's a nice, short little mystery exploration of a severely fucked up village called Castella that (for most groups) ends with a bit of a dungeon (cave?) crawl. It has cool body horror and enough wiggle room for combat, socializing and sneaking/trickery to all feel possible. Would recommend.

They were gonna make some Mörk Borg spinoff game called Fomoria, which has a bit more meat on its bones, though it's also full of furry stuff.

>>97409021
Last I checked, there's a preview for Fomoria out and they are currently gearing up to launch a kickstarter sometime soon.

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>>97409034
I gave it a read, thought the rules looked a lot more appealing than the baseline MB ones, will probably backport them if I'm asked to DM Mörk Borg again. I quite liked the final enemy of the playtest adventure, felt like a cool way to add back in a human element to the setting, played for horror.

riding the DCC hype train hard right now but mork borg was the game that broke my brain and forced me to actually start homebrewing. the system is complete, the tables are the worldbuilding, it just works. ignore the expansions and the absolute cancer community content, it's all trash, just do the og tsr modules with it.

90% of the complaints on this board are from people who clearly never held the physical book, the layout is fine, you're just reading a pdf on a monitor like a pleb. and the deadliness, lmao, starting you get d8 + presence. that's god mode compared to B/X or any real OSR system. crying about it being a booklet while at the same time buying 400 page tomes of fluff they never reference, the mileage per page here is huge.

>>97397398
I respect Blue Rose for, as another anon mentions, knowing what it wants to be and building to that and giving me a clear idea of what the playstyle is supposed to be.

With Mork Borg and its spin-offs I don't really understand. Maybe I've just become super smooth brained, but I don't really get what we're supposed to do in Mork Borg. Do I just wander around until the apocalypse timer hits 0 or we all die, whichever comes first?

>>97410511
Kinda. The atmosphere it's trying to invoke, as I read it, is one where the player characters are selfish, amoral, anti-hero dipshits just trying to carve their own vaguely comfortable slice of the apocalypse before the world ends. Maybe they're in denial. Maybe they're nihilistic and openly embracing the end. Maybe they're looking for a 'worthy' death. Maybe they're just trying to survive to witness the end apocalypse with their own two eyes. A foolish few might be traveling in search for a way to rescue the world, or at least save themselves.

You're not meant to get super attached to your characters. Just knock a few beers back, go through some silly (intentionally over the top in its awfulness) dungeon and watch as you and your enemies meet horrible fates.

I can tolerate it in small doses. It's not for everyone.

>>97396518
Pirate Borg is the best Borg game.
Everything else is just trial run to get Pirate Borg refined.
You are allowed to have a different opinion, but that won't make it a right opinion

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Starting up The Last War.

>>97410539
MorkBorg definitely seems like an 'Intermission Game'.
You can run a session if one of your group couldn't make it, or you could run a few in between adventures/campaigns as a pallet cleanser.
It's like Paranoia or Maid in that way.

>>97404229
>NIgga missing the point this badly
I guess someone needs to spell it out for you:
The grand concept was poking fun out of "style over substance" games and general metal aesthetics.

>>97411160

Who's this little cutie?

>>97398260
To play devil's advocate, I like Borg games for three things they do perfectly well:
- they teach people to not get attached to their PCs, because you are going to have like four different ones during a single game session
- they showcase perfectly fine you can have an entire session done by dice rolls, with zero prep, zero planning and just moving with the motions (and this is fucking invaluable, especially when you have people that are either completely new or from a years-long, but now defunct groups)
- it takes the piss off the whole ACTUAL tryhard OSR and the "ye olde goode days" bullshit, by showing just how fucking obtuse for no reason or gain those games tend to be (except as a joke, rather than for real)

Also, Pirate Borg, if you re-edit it into an actual ruleset (which is about 15 pages of text), is the closest thing to a functional pirate game on the market.

>>97410539
Mate, SotDL does that concept way better

>>97411678
SotDL is a barely hidden fetish fodder.
And those aren't even fetishes anyone is likely to have

>>97411678
I've played plenty of SotDL and enjoyed it a lot. But this is a Mörk Borg thread, and I was trying to explain the appeal of the game, as I saw it. That aside, I don't find SotDL and Mörk Borg at all comparable. SotDL is the better game for sure, but it's not nearly as lethal, nor as simple.

>>97410511
>but I don't really get what we're supposed to do in Mork Borg
Raid a dungeon.
Either die in the process (then you get a new PC), or afterwards (where you don't).
This isn't rocket science.

The actual point is to have fun with friends for 3-5 hours, while grasping the basic concept that you are playing a game. And said game was deliberately designed to laugh off the concept of playing games. Which I think is the part that most people struggle with considerably.

>>97396518
Peak shark jump for sure.

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>>97411654
random world war 1 maid demonette

>>97411900
>Which I think is the part that most people struggle with considerably.

I admit that I really do struggle with it.

I get that Mork Borg's ostensibly a game, but cricket and rugby are games too and they play very differently and you can do things in one that you can't legally in the other and vice versa.

>>97412138
What can I say... I understand why people struggle with this.
I also find it weird that they get fixated on this or try to use the joke as a game, or, which is really bizarre, try to play it on regular basis, or for long campaigns. All while Mork Borg is effectively the themed Monopoly edition you buy for a joke present and gift to someone, play it once and then forget it even existed.
I guess this is only topped off with people who do those "printer friendly" versions or try to take the dysfunctional ruleset seriously or even fix it. And that's just delusional, which I don't understand in the slightest.

>>97411674
>it takes the piss off the whole ACTUAL tryhard OSR and the "ye olde goode days" bullshit, by showing just how fucking obtuse for no reason or gain those games tend to be (except as a joke, rather than for real)
This just sounds like "it's bad on purpose" with more words.

>>97411638
Mocking the source of your aesthetic when it’s the number one draw of your coffee table book is an interesting choice

>>97411900
>And said game was deliberately designed to laugh off the concept of playing games.
I just find that approach easier to laugh at myself
>Which I think is the part that most people struggle with considerably.
Maybe, that could be the case, but morkborgians do see to struggle more with being called out on "I was just pretending to be dumb".
It's also a game nearly no one seems to have anything to talk about, this entire thread had what, 3 people talking about actual play, and one had to be goaded into it. It's not only this thread, it seems every thread about mork borg is more about defending the system with vague remarks and not about playing it, like discussing religion with a devout believer who never read any scripture.

It is zak s without the edge. The thing is the edge is what makes zak s intresting

>>97396518
As a oDnD enjoyer, MörkBorg is perfectly playable. Characters are a lot more durable than what people think. And once players get to 15+ HP you have to really do them dirty to get a character killed. Design is very evocative and sparks the imagination. But the anti-christian vibes are a big turn off for me. Obviously the game world is set in hell or purgatory like dimension but still. Real world references in fantasy games kill any immersion I might have had.

>>97410539
>a deserter who refused to fight in a pointless war
>a priest who rejected the suicide-pact religion
>a royal holding onto the last scrap of tradition/order
>a guy born in a shit-cart who literally refuses to die
not sure about it being anti-heroic, quite the opposite

>>97412117
I'm immediately a fan.

>>97412425
Which is the point.

>>97412516
Ever heard about the concept of parody?

>>97412670
>t seems every thread about mork borg is more about defending the system with vague remarks and not about playing it, like discussing religion with a devout believer who never read any scripture.
I will be the one to explain this to you:
Most people defending this game never actually played it. They know it exist, they paged through it, but they have no fucking clue what a (100% deliberate) clunker it is. Since they lack on-hand experience and the rules are pretty hard to follow (not to mention barely there in the first place), it's easier to state banal, surface-level shit, than face the fact two bored metalheads made a parody game... and simply fucking role with it.
I mean there is one more factor that I guess can make people get pissant about this game or needlessly passionate - they paid actual money for it, so now they have buyer's remorse.

>>97414083
The world is literally dying and everyone in it is perfectly aware of it. It's the PCs who by design are delusional about it.
So no, they aren't heroic in the slightest

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>>97402359
I hate when people put moralistic asterisks in their licenses like this, I've seen it on Itch before, it always just muddies the water and opens precedent up for 'know it when I see it' bullshit.
This is ignoring the fact that game mechanics can't be copywritten in the usa, only setting details and prose can.
A big part of me just wants to make Misogyny Borg out of spite.

>>97417999
So, what rules or setting elements would you change to improve it?

>>97403554
the only YT opinions i've seen on BORG is "yeah i know the formatting sucks but that makes it good."
"i like it there for it's good."
you through in the Youtube essay voice and throw around "tactile, lived in" and shit like that.
the game looks like someone turned Blanchinitisu into a gamesystem

>>97411678
SHIT GOLEM
SHIIIIIT GOLEM

>>97417999
>Which is the point.
Making a bad game on purpose means they just made a bad game.

>>97417999
There's no parody in the art that I've seen it just looks like b-sides from metal album art. Also post-sincerity is so fucking tired at this point. Metal art is cool - everything you thought was cool at 10 years old actually is cool, no handwringing needed that's for fags

I recently played Mork Borg with a friend who I am looking to introduce to the TTRPG hobby. It was a one-on-one session, where I ran him through Rotblack Sludge, the free introductory module provided on the website to introduce players and DMs to the system and setting.

We both really enjoyed our time. I normally play D&D, but in recent times have kind of grown a little tired of the system. I've been wanting to run my own stuff rather than be a player, but my attempts at running P2e, D&D, VtM all kind of fell flat after a few sessions.

While I have yet to see how my interest in MB pans out over a similar time frame, I feel confident that an OSR style system like this is probably what I've been looking for. So I came here looking for some cool modules and stuff to pick up from the community, and was quite surprised to see how negative the sentiment is surrounding MB.

I can understand the annoyance at the presentation for the rulebook, but the website provides a full copy of the rules with all the art and formatting stripped out, completely for free. I used the "Barebones Edition" to run the module with my friend even.

I also understand the annoyance at the creators' little "art should comfort the disturbed, and disturb the comfortable, but never ever say nigger" addendum for community content. It is somewhat incongruous considering Mork Borg's setting.

However I think those are both minor issues. The clean rulebook is freely available, the refusal to recognise "offensive" community content is whatever.

What I'm really curious to know in detail is what people mean when they say the rules/system sucks though - I found it's simplicity refreshing compared to systems like Pathfinder and D&D. My friend didn't ever raise any issues with a ruling.

>>97396625
It's Lamentations of the Flame Princess for people who have had consensual sex. That's why some "people" hate it.

My group plays quite a bit of Mörk Borg (and other versions of it) its pretty good as a no prep game in between our actual campaigns and when some cancels. I don't care about the racism/whatever thing because our game doesn't have black people or trannies.

>>97396518
Same but with D&D 1974

>>97418422
>A big part of me just wants to make Misogyny Borg out of spite.
Some dude made pro-corpo cyberpunk, I think it was called BORZOI.

>>97420005
multiple seminal works of cyberpunk have cops as protagonists too

>>97396518
it was the first rpg I dipped my toes in after playing 5e for years. once I ran a short campaign, the flaws became apparent. never did play it again, but it drove me to the B/X + AD&D pipeline

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>>97419146

>>97418433
I just play Pirate Borg and ignore the whole "the world is ending RIGHT NOW!" nonsense.
Solves 90% of problems Borg games have in general. I also like the death rate of that game, so it's zero problem for me, along with how stingy the exp is - I always come with 4 pre-rolled characters for a session.
The remaining 10% of problems is how terribly organised those books are, but as already stated, it's a feature, not a bug, and if someone needs to put order to it, all they have to do is re-edit pages and their content slightly, so all important shit is together on 10-15 pages of tables and enemy lists

>>97419157
>It's not a parody when it's not LE WHACKY CRAZY STUFF!
So... impossible to pull with metal stylistics, then, you dense fuck?
Or it's that you have no clue what parody is

>>97420239
I know you're really convinced of this parody interpretation, so let me be clear: Mork Borg is not meant to be a parody. The creators are genuinely just like that. The game is like that because the creators are tasteless retards who believed that they were making a good game. They made a bad game instead, but because critics and normalniggers are impressed by terrible layout and photobashing, people assumed it must be a good game because they keep seeing people talk about it.

>>97420256
If it's not mocking or criticizing it's not a parody. It's just a stolen valor aesthetic from Swedes that are ashamed of something their culture is very good at (many such cases)

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>osr games were obtuse
Tell me you're an actual honest to god, propeller-hat donning, short bus certified, paste Sommelier some more why don't you?

>>97420248
>"the world is ending RIGHT NOW!" nonsense
thematically, it fits MB (Seventh Seal, medieval end times atmosphere), but feels so-so in Pirate and completely out of place in Cy.

mechanically most systems have a variant of that (Sanity in CoC, Cyberpsychosis in Cyberpunk, Humanity in Vampire) to prevent runaway power levels, and besides, depending on the die you pick, hitting all 7 miseries takes anywhere from 14 to 700 rolls, so it's basically a non-issue.

strongly agree that Pirate is the best of the bunch, and probably one of the best ttrpgs overall

>>97412670
>every thread about mork borg is more about defending the system with vague remarks
To be fair, much of the thread is just attacking the game with vague remarks.
I think a lack of play reports is less to do with the game itself and more to do with the decline of the board as a whole. Play reports are few and far between these days. Most anons just bitch about things which didn't happen.

>>97423117
>To be fair, much of the thread is just attacking the game with vague remarks.
That's not really fair, you can make a thread about any game and it will be relentlessly attacked. Mork Borg just looks like it's attacked more because there's barely any actual game discussion (play reports or mechanics) to pad the threads, and even the people who claim to like it interact more with negativity than with posts discussing it, which gives strength to the argument nearly no one plays this and threads are just shills.
You can see more discussion about playing TTRPGs in those stale botted one question threads for content farming that ask inane shit like "what kind of bread should a barbarian eat?"

>>97423234
Well yeah, it's a ruleslite. Chargen is randomised. There are no "builds". All anons can really share are play reports and homebrew. Both take more effort to post than this board is worth.
>You can see more discussion about playing TTRPGs in those stale botted one question threads for content farming that ask inane shit like "what kind of bread should a barbarian eat?
Case in point.

>>97398293
>It's very much a product of style over substance and shallow as a puddle of piss.
lol who fucking cares
TTRPG space is half about style and creativity, and this is like a goldmine of that
>muh substance muh depth
nigger you can literally do that
add on any sub system you want lmao

>>97423258
>Both take more effort to post than this board is worth.
>Can't be arsed to talk about what running the game feels like or how to do it
>"but it's the best evahh"
Yeah, almost as if the ones defending Mork Borg here are mostly shills.

>>97423289
tbqf never touched Mork Borg in real life, there are just too many competing systems for my gaming groups attention. still, played maybe a dozen systems over 20 years now, and somehow i can tell if something is a good thing or not, due to having two eyeballs and some brain cells. weird, isn't

want reports? check youtube, or their discord, there's plenty.

>>97423289
I could type out the most fantastic play report ever seen and you'd just call me a shill, so what's the point?

>>97423318
>due to having two eyeballs and some brain cells
I used mine to look at Mork Borg and the system itself isn't very good. Any GM that can make it work can probably make a good game out of a couple of dice and half an hour on pinterest.
>>97423322
If you don't feel like talking about your games it's ok anon, no one is forcing you to be here.

>>97423359
Why would I talk about my games with a bad faith stranger on the internet? If you want storytime, check discord or youtube as >>97423318 said.
Assessing a game by its discussion on /tg/ is like assessing a menu by the taste of the diner's shit.

>>97423394
>bad faith stranger on the internet
Why would I trust a game is good? It didn't look good when I looked at the ruleset.

>>97423417
Then don't play it and move on? There are plenty of other games.

>>97423359
eh hate shilling for a system who's like both critically and commercially succesfull. i even hang out with people who claim Pathfinder is a good system, and i don't think any less of them, even though they are gay and retarded. pax Anon, hope the worlds you build together burn brighter than the one we're stuck in.

>>97423430
>Then don't play it and move on
That seems to be the consensus both between haters and lovers of the system
>>97423434
Good luck on your games too, I hope they allow you to create, spread and interact with more positivity than in morkborg threads >>97423234
>interact more with negativity than with posts discussing it
Pathfinder is indeed gay and retarded, like morkborg the only good thing about it is the art (and only passingly).

>>97423454
>That seems to be the consensus both between haters and lovers of the system
I really don't care what you do either way. This conversation started with my pointing out how shitty the board has become and we're doing nothing to help that.

>>97423485
You're not doing anything to help morkborg either, but people have discussions about systems they care every day in this place. You're free to flee to youtube and discord, as you mentioned, if you care.

>>97423491
Why would I care about helping the game? How would giving you a bedtime story help the game?

>>97423117
In both cases, it's because what is actually there in Mork Borg isn't much to talk about. It's the LaCroix of D&D, pretending to be OSR while actively ignoring how heavy with rules and effort towards mechanical clarity the real old school games were.

So whatever you get out of the game is what you put in. A great GM with a fully invested table might have a great time, but everything happening at that table is entirely attributable to those people, not the game. Someone who is taking the game at face value and just plays it straight will have a bad time, and that will partly be their fault since refusing to have fun with something you chose to do is a weird personal failing, however, the game not facilitating that fun in any real way aside from heaping on tons of bleak, grimdark bullshit, does not get a pass just because someone could have had fun with their friends if they tried. That goes for literally any game. That goes for FATAL and TSL and RIFTS... and unfortunately, I have to say that those games all do a lot more to try and evoke some kind of specific gameplay vibe than Mork Borg does.

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>>97423234
How long has Mork Borg been out? Anyone that was paid for shilling it moved onto a new assignment long ago.

>>97423635
>I have to say that those games all do a lot more to try and evoke some kind of specific gameplay vibe
Such as? What makes them so immersive?

>>97423635
i wouldn't last five minutes at a table with people who think the game is about being an edgy dipshit (buying into the memes/marketing). my take is that it's about choosing to carve out meaning in a reality that is actively dissolving around you.

>>97423517
>Why would I care about helping the game?
My main point is no one here seems to be helping the game, and you seem to take an antagonistic stance against my posts
>How would giving you a bedtime story help the game?
I'm not asking you to DM me your tales anon, I'm just pointing that I said, very early in this exchange, that people who defend morkborg will sooner react to negativity than they'll talk about their damn game. Talking about their game would give something people interested in it can interact with and grow these threads into something other than people just attacking it.
If that's not what you signed up for then feel free to dismiss, but by that metric I didn't sign up to make this board better either.
>>97423651
I never said they were paid shills, which makes it even sadder.

>>97424169
What the fuck do you mean by "helping the game"?

>>97424469
The same you mean by "helping the board" I assume.

>>97396518
I enjoy it, but everyone else here always spergs out about it. Biggest problem is the faggot/tranny fanbase (who seem to have all moved to bluesky bcasue elon is nazi or something).

>>97425450
The board is what we're doing right now. The game is what happens at my table. The latter has nothing to do with you.

>>97421415
Nta, but from the top of my head:
THAC0
And not the mechanic itself, but how you "add" modifiers to it. It's idiotic system that has five steps too many simply because some asshat insisted that lower number is better, but then bonuses were still noted as "+" and penalties as "-"
How about the fact AC is even a thing?

Oh, right, I forgot - those are "traditions" and thus everyone should roll with them and accept them as "default". Which only ever works if you have DnD brain rot.

>>97423277
>lol who fucking cares
Anyone who isn't as shallow as Narcissus, cry harder about it.

>>97426571
Also nta, but you clearly didn't think through this reply. You basically just admitted throwing tantrum is more important than games, and with argument that people are narcissistic if they don't share your believes.
Nigga, are you all right?

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>>97426587
No, I'm saying that anyone who isn't shallow does look for more style than substance. Saying "I look for substance over style" is the definition of being shallow.
>Throwing a tantrum
Pointing out that something is shit isn't throwing a tantrum, it's stating a point of view.
You can then argue with that point of view, tell me why you think I'm wrong, or don't appreciate the virtues of the system (Shit I'm writing up a post in an entirely different thread right now about a system I like), but "Who cares" isn't an argument, it's a discussion terminating cliché.
It's a weak, faggy attempt to shame the other person for trying to have the discussion at all.

And know what? Know who cares?

They cared, enough to write a reply and even then go on to try and make the argument that all TTRPGS are actually as lacking in meat as Morg Borg.
So they don't even believe it themselves, the fucking cuck.
I'm not angry, I'm just not treating them with any respect, because they don't deserve any.

>>97426619
>I am not throwing a tantrum!
>1k letters malding reply

>>97421315
Consult >>97420239

>>97426109
Sure, healthy discussion about the hobby doesn't help the games in its center, despite those being highly social games, and this one in partcular being one of the most open-ended ones that invites discussion about rules and mechanics.
If you're that high on solipsism why do you even need a system?

>>97396518
It's... adequate.

>>97423651
Culture has stagnated entirely in the past decade

>>97428984
4chan hasn't been relevant for nearly a decade. Discussion here does fuck all. You are in entirely the wrong place for healthy discussion, especially if you want to discuss this game.
Which you don't.

>>97429496
>Discussion here does fuck all.
Newfags out.

>>97427333
And... you're apparently a retard.

>>97419157
>Metal art is cool
is it really fucking metal or is this like a plebbit thing where they go
>it looks like scratchy shit and it's grim and has demons and that's metal
Like there's a lot of fucking album covers out there but the world i've usually been sold is some weird, moorecockian pulp world or clean geometric shapes and lines, or fucking dramatic or classical and it's great. Some of them were cribbing from Frank Frazetta.
Hell, metal is already tied to fantasy it's hard to really be a selling point when you think about it.
When i think metal in fantasy i'm expecting barbarians, sword and sorcery shit, more conan and cyborgs and shit.

Maybe i need to see more of it's art or it's a particular sub genre of metal but nothing in Morkborg as pitched to me feels metal.
It seems more like depressive shit.

>>97396518
I've not run any of the Borg systems, though I did pick up pdfs of Pirate Borg and Cy_Borg to steal ideas from for other games. The whole Borg framework strikes me as being similar to DCC in one key way - it's like the TTRPG system equivalent of a project car. though i would say DCC at least gives you a little more to work with. Mork Borg just seems really barebones, but I know there's a particular type of DM out there who really enjoy that "project car" feel, filling in the gaps of the system with house rules and making it really feel like their own thing, and I don't fault people who enjoy that. I just personally prefer systems with a little more meat on their bones, with good procedures that facilitate a particular style of game.

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>>97430675
There's a lot more DIY black and/or death metal bands today with "lo-fi" fantasy/occult album arts that Mork Borg does remind me of, yeah.

If anything (and respectfully) I feel like you're the one with a popular misconception of metal art based on big name bands like Manowar, Judas Priest, etc.

>>97431000
>with a popular misconception of metal
two things:
firstly, I lean more speed/trash/NWoBHM, but i did see that as something i needed to address so i was taking samples and peeking into other sub genres/time periods. now i do like a number of more obscure or niche metal sounds it's not from the black/doom/death, subgenres, that of course means when i looking at album covers the ones that come up are going to be the most popular.
fair point all around.

the second is, I think the divide is wider than a miss-conception. i remembered that Black metal is more popular in Scandinavia, Mork Borg is the most swedish name ever. I had a spiel about popular bands being what people remember and that's important.
It's something i was thinking about, because it seems counter intuitive but the answer is there, i have an anglo perspective on metal, this is a swedish perspective.
I still prefer the anglo metal feel, mork is kinda blanchian to me.

>>97431191
I see where you're coming from better now yeah. Have a nice night man.

>>97418006
harbouring delusions that regardless of situation, there is hope, is what heroism is about

>>97429496
Again, you're free to leave, no one is forcing you to stay anon. What does relevant even mean? I thought what happened at your table had nothing to do with the outside.

>>97431684
>harbouring delusions that regardless of situation, there is hope, is what heroism is about
No, that's just being delusional and in denial
Which means you are quite literally mental.
This is literally the worst take on crisis - pretending it;s not happening. Even cynics who try to exploit it are less stupid (doesn't make them smart), because they at least acknowledge the situation.

>>97431865
>t. zoomer too young to know when this place actually meant anything and what was the pre-nazi mod /tg/
Imagine being literally born into the hellscape of modern internet and not knowing any better - the shit is literally ALL you know

>>97433256
hope doesn't mean "pretend it's not happening"
quite the opposite, in fact

>>97433256
felt for Verhu lies award

>>97433440
Lusi-simp

>>97396625
>fags
>anti-authoritarianism

countersignal harder you lefty nigger

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>>97433259
>pre-nazi mod
you are a tranny tourist who got here less than a month ago you autogynophilic pedo faggot. Your ugly facial hair mug betrays the skirt you wear.

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>>97436546
Predictably, tourist ousts himself as a total newfag, not even knowing what and when nazi mod was, but hey, it has "nazi" in the name, so let's go full retard with tranny obsession.

>liking things
/lgbt/ is that way.

>>97403961
Where?

>>97411638
wow. great... joke?

>>97411900
why would I want to "laugh off the concept of playing games" (?)

do you guys think other hobbies have this kind of thing? I wonder if there are guys who go mountain climbing but only do it ironically, as a joke. Or maybe it would br more like if the packaging for your climbing gloves didn't say anything about the material or specs, and instead was just a paragraph about how stupid climbing is.

Why is this the only hobby which seems to be full of people who find the idea of doing the hobby embarrassing and dreadful? If that's how they feel, why are they here?

>>97417999
What is the purpose of this product, then? If it's a parody and not actually meant to be used to play a game, what is it for?

Well alright, I'm not really that invested in convincing you of anything. Enjoy your game.

>>97423277
Why would I buy this if I have to make all the systems myself?

>>97436725
Different anon.
you both sound like fucking retards.
this is the cliffnotes i got
>hurrr this place sucks - i am a retard
>>then leave - also i'm a retards
>you don't know what this place used to be
>>tranny
>oh you didn't respond to my tangent, you're a tourist
Nobody needs to remember the great modpoclyse or the knight of the long brooms or whatever. it's been almost a decade since /tg/ was good and that begs the question why are you still here?
because you can say nigger?

>>97439040
Fleecing retards. Works good. They've already upgraded to a /v/ audience with a Darkest Dungeon ripoff. Expect an increasing number of fuckwits from /v/ mixed with art project nerds for the next bit.

>>97423651
Shadowdark is already old news.

>>97412117
We need more games with maids, bunny girls and mikos.
The world needs healing.

>>97439518
>because you can say nigger?
You can now catch a ban for that on some boards.

>I don't like this game
Ok
>noo you have to convince me why I should like the game
Why?
>because if you can't convince me it's a good game I'll keep thinking it's a bad game

What an entitled attention whore faggot.

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>>97439518
>and that begs the question why are you still here?
>He doesn't know

>>97439040
>If it's a parody and not actually meant to be used to play a game
How did you managed to connect those two completely disconnected elements?
But other than that >>97439693 is also wrong, since it's a give-away license, so they get fuck-all profit from this.

>>97439693
>They've already upgraded to a /v/ audience with a Darkest Dungeon ripoff
That's actually different people.
>Expect an increasing number of fuckwits from /v/ mixed with art project nerds for the next bit.
God, I wish were on the stage of /tg/ where things cause uptake of people present here. I could even endure the 2nd coming of Furry Road, just to get that fix of people actually giving a fuck about this board still (badly) pretending to be alive

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>>97439040
>>97439058
The real question is:
Why the fuck you are spending money on games at all
>inb4 supporting the creators you hate

I mean fuck, I've been in this hobby since late 90s. The only games that I own and are even remotely legal are either gifts, freebies or prizes (and one old-school, combat-earned prize). Who in their right mind would spend money on games of pretend? It's not like you are playing with minis, which you need to exist in some sort of physical form. All you need is a set of cheapo dice, a bit of creativity and you are set.

>>97430675
Like the other Anon said, Borg is clearly attempting to have a "Black metal" style, but avoids saying so because Black metal as a genre is known to be full of Chuds, so it keeps claiming to be "Doom metal".

>>97440584
Reminds me of this post: https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96703103/#96714536

>>97440584
Whoa watch out everybody the metal expert is here and he has some spicy opinions.

>>97440601
>Anon has Mork Borg thread archives at the ready
RENT FUCKING FREE LOL

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>>97440795
>People whose brains aren't fried by twitter can remember things they read before and go look them up
>This means I win
Are you 12?

>>97440795
thought you cooked with this one huh

>>97440806
>>97440842
kwapob

>>97440852
KWAB BORG

>>97440795
Part of the issue is that it was confirmed a while ago that the mork borg creators shill their own products here or send people from discord to defend it. It is one of the reasons why it gets such a negative response here beyond the lecturing intro or the faux dark fantasy metal aesthetic.

>>97441061
>it was confirmed a while ago that the mork borg creators shill their own products here or send people from discord to defend it
Can I get some proof? Not calling you a liar, just real curious.

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>>97441112
They posted this on their social media pages and discord. There were also some other posts of them posting criticisms and some of the replies or posts had (you) there. It looks like a good chunk of the tweets were deleted though.
There were also some association with mag28 advertisers which did have a confirmed presence here as well.

>>97441061
Neither of those are confirmed. The presence of (you)s in a screencap could just confirm the presence of whoever sent the devs the screencap. Anything beyond that is just speculation and/or schizo behaviour.

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in summary

>>97441319
You get this from the Mork Borg discord, buddy?

>>97441370
nah, it's just like the third thread i've been in that went through the same trajectory. i'm sort of a pattern noticer myself.

>>97441319
>Lack of play reports on any system in general
Someone did one for ACKS recently, it was 200 pages of kino shenanigans
OSR is unironically great for play reports.

>>97441370
on a better note, i searched "4chan" in my Discords and left the ones acting like it's Hitler (sadly MB being one of them). definitely don't need that vibe

>>97441475
i'll start lurking there then

>>97441665
>i'll start lurking there then
Check the archive for AzteCKS and you should be able to find a copy.

>>97440437
>doesn't know how brand identity works
>wants /tg/ to be like /v/
Gross. This is the audience buck bork wants.

>>97396518
99% cool art
1% bad gameplay

>>97439026
>Ironic climbers
I picture a 35 year old dude, chalking up, on a jungle gym.
>>97441319
Kek, you're reading too deep, there's just nothing else to do on Mork Borg threads. When people try to post plays or content no one interacts.

>>97441866
>Missing the point this badly
>While trying to project it on others

>>97439026
>do you guys think other hobbies have this kind of thing?
Toy collecting has Funko Pop collectors and Labubu collectors. Sounds like the equivalent comparison to MB players.

>>97443246
So you admit it has players

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>>97439026
>People are doing things differently than I do them and they like doing different things than I do
>UNACCEPTABLE!

>>97399158
i'll be honest dude these do not look good.

>>97443508
It has players in the same vein as Godhusk or Vermis has players

>>97443780
... and... ?
Seriously nigga, what point are you so desperate to make and yet so incapable of making?
And more importantly, why you are so obsessive in trying to make it

>>97443780
Meaning?

>>97443842
>>97443848
He's saying Vermis and Godhusk are "fake game" books that are just vague lore and weird art, but not actually playable. Meaning people who talk about how great Mork Borg is don't actually play it.

>>97445223
Does he want people to talk about the game or not? I don't get it.

>>97443213
>lying about who makes video games
Typical /v/ shitter.

>>97445223
>>97443780
Weird take. Honestly Vermis and such are better than Mork Borg. The game that comes with MB is so bare bones it would have been more useful if they'd put effort into world building if they were interested in making a good product. Their focus was on making a marketable product. It worked well enough in terms of bandwidth. No idea how actually profitable it was. Would be interesting to see.

desu Mork Borg is still bloat. why do attributes even exist? a -3 to +3 range on a d20 is barely a +-15% difference. it's statistically irrelevant noise. why waste time tracking numbers that barely change the odds?

it feels like these minimalist OSR clones are too coward to actually kill the sacred cows, so we just end up with simulationist clutter that doesn't simulate anything.

>>97445648
Attributes can reach +6. Plenty of effects adjust difficulty ratings, essentially acting as modifiers. You're also ignoring relative probability in favour of absolute probability.

>>97436725
>calling anyone a newfag or tourist
>posts watermarked image
Lurk moar before posting

>>97445784
once you go over +3 it's a coin flip if they drop during leveling, stabilizing at +3 for advanced characters. not holding it against MB alone, it's standard for that whole family of D&D games. sure, the stats are useful for telling you what your character is like narratively for rp, but mechanically? eh.

>>97443842
>>97443848
lol newfags

>>97445833
A PC's mechanics aren't dictated entirely by modifers. Class abilities, equipment, permanent injuries/mutations/??? are all part of the mix. Can you point to a game that does modifiers well, or that defines characters well enough without using modifiers?

>>97445892
can't say i do. i actually like when results come from items and special abilities anyway. but it's not like we need attributes for that though, i'd gladly drop the pretense.

>>97445648
The only good ultralight is Into the Odd and its derivatives. Doesn't need modifiers, stats are condensed but still descriptive, easy to implement mechanically for rules and rulings.

>>97445920
Yeah I figured. Any game with a random element is gonna have psuedo-modifiers, but your character should be more than modifiers.

>>97445933
>The only good ultralight is Into the Odd and its derivatives
Into the Odd is somehow worse than Mork Borg. Are you fucking retarded?

>>97445933
Been running bastionland and having a lot of fun with it, but it's literally a d20 system with psuedo-modifiers dude. What, you just hate adding/subtracting?

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>>97445980
Nah.
ItO manages to be more BRTVL than corkbork in every combat.
Its faster in all respects and has a much better formatting.
The game was actually meant to be played at all. The derivatives get significant playtesting and have more appealing aesthetics even in the huge new books that are somehow more usable than mork borg.
Its just better.

>>97446059
It has advantage and disadvantage, that's about it. Everything else is stat based without having to do an additional whatever to get the same result.
>post examples of killing sacred cows!
>posts examples
>Nooooooo not like that even tho I'm doing it too
Weird flex.
Don't even like adv/dis but it works enough for the game at hand. If I want dungeon crawling its the best way to get that going.
If I want basic arithmetic for fun I'll play battletech or some other board game.

>>97446099
Bruv are you literally complaining about math on /tg/? When PCs suffer attribute loss do you complain about that too?

>>97446071
It's still an utterly dogshit game with terrible, incoherent rules that runs on vague vibes and retarded callbacks to a type of old school gameplay that never existed.

>>97446329
Bloody hell anon, is there anything you do like?

>>97396518
I'd be willing to bet that this is the only RPG you've ever played in your life, except for maybe 5e.

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>>97445564
>Continues to project and miss the point
Typical moron looking for pointless argument

>>97445864
>You are new if you don't grasp why idiots get their panties in a twist about 3 yo game

>>97446414
Nta but I'm always amused when people like you get called out for lying and then squirm and weasel away instead of just admitting defeat

>>97445784
>>97445833
>>97445892
>>97445892
The actual thing that matter is not having NEGATIVE stats, which is why you get a guaranteed improvement of any negative stat modifiers on level up (since it does make a difference when the default DR is 12 and you are at 15, but it does fuck all if you have DR 11 instead of 12 and then face a chance of actually decreasing your stat via RNG).
Everything else in stats is meaningless. What matters are your clases special features, which only comes at level up. All Borg games share this feature

>Can you point to a game that does modifiers well
... like every other game?
> defines characters well enough without using modifiers
That's a really tough one. I'd say Dogs in the Vineyard, simply due to how different the game is in this regard and how amorphous the representation of traits and equipment is

>>97445933
>The only good ultralight is
2d6
It's 2d6 roll under, with 4 stats that are all 6+d6.
Here, you just learned the whole system

>>97446453
And I'm lying about...
Other, than, you know, insisting that I do, while I didn't even made any claim in the first fucking place.
Unless, of course, you are saying that calling you a moron is a lie.

>>97446418
Yes

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>>97446408
>I don't like this thing because it's not very good
>God why can't you just eat the slop like the rest of us

>>97446463
Another stunning example, I hope that in the future when you are in situations like this in person you suck up your pride instead of doing whatever it is you're doing here

>>97446475
>I don't like this thing because it's not very good
>Okay
>No, stop liking it, too!
>But nobody sa...
>JUST STOP LIKING IT
Here, tfty

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>>97446475
So you are drawing your self-worth from telling people they are having fun wrong?
Weird, but okay

>>97446480
>Anon just starts rambling

>>97446495
If you want to dismiss what I've said as rambling that's fine, but such a weaselworm tactic isn't going to win you any favor

>>97446456
>every other game?
factually wrong. the only time attributes do anything is when you gain a level, like getting more HP from Constitution or extra spells from Intelligence. most of the time attributes are static, and your skills are what actually make you different

>>97446484
>>97446495
You can't even defend the fucking game without doing this faggoty song and dance where you misinterpret posts you read moments ago.

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>>97446484
And? That's called having a discussion.
What, would you rather people just left you to roll in the slop like a pig? Where would you be if your parents never taught you that taking your pants down before shitting was a better option than shaking it out the bottom of your trouser leg?
People are trying to engage you in conversation and you've decided to stake your identity on seething over it without even coming to the table.
Which you are, because if you truly didn't give a shit you wouldn't bother posting.
If you like something then stand for it, argue for it, explain what I'm missing that you see.
Pretending to be above a discussion, while posting on a place dedicated to discussing things and insisting you're not interested in the discussion, honest guv' doesn't make you better, it just makes you look like a soft bastard who can't hold a position without retreating from it.
Or are you the kind of guy who just let people fuck your wife and go "Well at least she enjoyed some good dick for once" when she stumbles out the bedroom with cum dripping down her legs?

>>97446475
>fails to answer the question
>quotes no-one whatsoever instead
Brother I just want to see you say one positive thing about something. I'm worried about you man.

>>97446567
Oh sweet. I love when stupid faggots embarrass themselves and then try to cover it by pretending to be wholesome and sincere.

>>97446577
I guess that counts. Honestly though that sounds like a miserable way to live.

>>97446607
Lmao he's still doing it.

>>97446622
You said you like it so I thought I'd oblige.
Ok I'll be more specific. Can you name a system you enjoy? Or even just a setting?

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>>97446567
>>97446639
Alright, since you asked nicely, systems I really enjoy;
>PbtA - Despite being rules light it really hits hard on how to run good genre fiction and is flexible enough that it's really easy to homebrew with
>ACKS - Fantastic system that hits every note on what it wants to do, I wrote an entire campaign write up for a game which I shared on /osrg/ actually about 6 months ago for a game I'm GMing (Pic related as proof I'm not just making shit up on that one, you can go look it up in the archives)
>Ironsworn & Starforged at both GOAT tier (And before you say "Solo play?" yeah I'm a forever GM, I got my needs)
>Recently been experimenting with Traveller and found it to be a remarkably satisfying system, it's fascinating playing a system that's so old it doesn't suffer from the "D&D as Mount Fuji" problem
I could write a rave review about each of them (except Traveller since I'm newer to that one, for all I know it's going to turn out to be shit at a later date, but so far I'm optimistic)

>>97446544
Let's be blunt here, since you seem to be a particularly slow individual:
I'm not defending shit.
You, on your own behalf, project on me the partisan notion that if I'm not agreeing with you, then I must be opposing you, and therefore you insist that I am defending a game that I don't care about
Re-read >>97446484
That "But nobody sa..." is a little joke on "But nobody said anything about liking it".
But apparently, that means I'm defending the game, rather than pointing you are angry over nothing.

>>97446556
>That's called having a discussion.
A discussion assumes that both sides are engaging the subject (which isn't true) and both sides have agreeable stance on the matter (which even to you must be obvious as untrue).
So it's at best an argument, and one that only one side is invested into.
I'm just confused what the hell you are trying to achieve getting angry over the fact a bad game exists and is bad.
Next time, read what people are saying, instead of having arguments with voices in your head

>>97446639
Fantasy Craft. Best thing to come out of the OGL, hands down. I'm also fairly fond of Tenra Bansho Zero and Maid RPG, but I think you should really give up on this whole routine.

>>97446656
>But apparently, that means I'm defending the game, rather than pointing you are angry over nothing.
That's the impresion you give when you enter a conversation about the qualities of a system and then start asserting that people are saying that someone else can't like something, rather than understanding the direct stated opinions that the game itself is bad.

>>97445223
As someone who works at a local game store that's 200% true
They should have honestly just made a fantasy first world/lore book like MURK DOME is doing
Already have 30+ orders for that one and it's not coming till around November
Mork is all style no substance and is only one of many
Best way to describe them is a novelty cake thats mostly fondant, good to look at but not eat
hypermall unlimited violence is another example of all surface level with no real meaning or care for gameplay
Another icon of this genre is random naming for simple things
It's not health it's MEAT LIFE
It's not a magic it's GARGO GAMBLERS FURKUNDEL WORSHIP
you're not a class your a DETESTED DUNG EATER that's just your standard Dnd role with different names

>>97446652
Not interested in solo play but I've heard of PbtA. What does it do right that MB does wrong? And don't say "everything". I want to know how you distinguish a good ruleslite from a bad one.

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>>97446652
Outside of that, settings; Birthright, Darksun, Council of Wyrms, Mindjammer, Star Wars, Blue Rose, Carcosa, about half a dozen custom settings designed just for my campaigsn.
Ect, ect, so on, so forth.

You see the difference there? How I can boldly say what I like with confidence and not cringe behind 'I know it's shit but...please, no bulli'
I, in fact, love things so much that I will do a full write up and harass strangers with it going 'Look at this cool thing my group did, it was fucking great. No I won't let you out the elevator, call the cops, they can't save you from the next half an hour of me talking about my campaign.'

That's passion.
That's loving a thing.
That's true enjoyment.
Not just consuming it because it was poured into the trough in front of you.

I'm not some weak chinned /v/ poster who hates everything and is here to piss in your chips; but come the fuck on.
At least I can explain what I like about a system and if you were to challenge me on their flaws we'd have this thing called a conversation or dare I say it, even an argument, where you state your position, I state mine and you have to convince me that I'm wrong.
Again, I'm sorry your tastes are dogshit, but you have to understand, just because people think your tastes are dogshit doesn't mean they hate errythin' in da whol' wide wurl' ;_;.
Maybe if you stopped pretending they do and asked "Why do you like X more than Y" or "So what do you think is bad about X" you could have a proper discussion about it instead of acting the bitch.

>>97446689
>"Why do you like X more than Y" or "So what do you think is bad about X" you could have a proper discussion about it instead of acting the bitch.
Mate. I literally just did that. I don't understand your need to be so antagonistic.

>>97446652
>PbtA
a laundry list of moves. like, imagine having to consult a rulebook for what should be a normal exchange between the player and GM. i think Brindlewood Bay/Carved from Brindlewood does it better
>ACKS
a generic D&D system that refuses to be a module because god knows why
>Ironsworn & Starforged
actually pretty cool
>Traveller
kinda unfortunate it's the closest thing we have to "the standard" sci-fi system, but it is what it is.

good to see you, ACKS-kun!

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>>97446682
>And don't say "everything". I want to know how you distinguish a good ruleslite from a bad one.
Anon, I'm going to promise you now, so long as this thread is up I will never slap you down like that.
You asked an honest question and opened yourself up for discussion after I called you a soft faggot for refusing to engage in one.
I'd have to be a real shit to then take that as an opportunity to sucker punch you.
I'm not that kind of asshole.

>Not interested in solo play but I've heard of PbtA. What does it do right that MB does wrong?
Now we're getting somewhere.
Right, fundamentally the reason Morg Bork doesn't work isn't because its rules lite, but because it lacks substance.
The best PbtA systems are ones that hyperfocus on their genre inspirations and everything feeds into that.
Every single mechanic in Monsterhearts cleaves towards "You're a monster, you're a teenager, you're a teenage monster! Be terrible to each other and get into a mess because that's part of growing up!"
Every move is about being a little shit to each other, social power, influence and drama bullshit.
The Sword, The Crown and the Unspeakable Power similarly really hits on being a purely low fantasy system with vague magic, in the style of say, Game of Thrones. Apocalypse World does the same for Mad Max, Metro, ect.
They're all basically designed so that the only things that your characters can do, mechanically, are the things that fit in the genre. If you run Monster of the Week (aka: Scooby Doo) then the mechanics reward you for leaning into what would fit in such a setting.

>>97446763
Can you elaborate on how say, monsterheart's mechanics reinforce its tone?

>>97446763
Now there are games that fail to do this, dungeon world being the perfect example.
Dungeon world is a bad rules lite PbtA game, because it doesn't know what it wants to be. Or rather, it does, but its foundations are weak.
It wants to be rules lite D&D, but doesn't put in the effort to really cleave to the virtues of PbtA, instead it's somewhere between the two, too short for Richard, too long for Dick. It's generic, which is the worst thing a PbtA game can be.

Morg Bork is less TSTCTUP and more Dungeon-World, in that its stated goal doesn't line up perfectly with its mechanics.
As an /osrg/ aficionado, it's pretty weak on that front and, fundamentally, misunderstands what OSR games are about (First rule of osr, anyone who tells you osr is 'Heckin' lethal bro' doesn't know what they're on about).
So, mechanically it's a wash from the get-go, purely boiler plate and not that nice a boiler plate to begin with.
Alright so what about theme? Which is, let's be honest, the real selling point of the game, it's got Style, right?

The problem is that, well, the style of Morg Bork is kind of shallow as well, as shallow as the mechanics.
I know, you're going to say "That's because you're meant to drape your own setting details over it" but the thing is you can have games that do that and still have some specifics/style to them.
Starforged comes with an entire system generator for creating your own setting called the Truths system.
Apocalypse World asks a list of questions and says "Answer these to figure out what your setting is like."
[Swedish Chef Noises] has vagarities and tables without really hitting any unique aspects.
It's like being handed a dark, meaty stew without any specific chunks in it and asked 'What does this taste of to you'.
It tastes of dark, meaty stew.

>>97446722
>Good to see you, ACKS-kun
Ayy, my man!

>PbtA is just a list of moves
That's what I love about it.
Fite me.

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>>97446689
I'm quite tired of discussions about singular systems, like Mork Borg and now Into the Odd, where all criticisms of these very poorly designed games is met with a very snooty
>WELL WHAT DO *YOU* LIKE HUH??
Attitudes. These vibes-reliant, coffee table artbook games are verifiably, objectively poorly designed. That doesn't mean it's impossible to enjoy them, however, that does mean that any enjoyment someone gets from them largely comes from their own efforts. Having fun with [the game] is not the same as having fun at [the table], which is a distinction people have struggled with for as long as TTRPGs have existed. Goes for many other things too. God knows there's been countless arguments about how a bad game is "fun with friends" even though that goes for almost anything anyone can do with a group of friends.

>>97446822
I think you perhaps have an inaccurate idea of what MB is trying to be. Can you summarise what you think its intent is?

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>>97446788
No problem.

Alright so, like most PbtA games Monsterhearts is a playbook based game. It asks you right from the off to pick what is effectively a character class.
But the thing it does is that none of them are generic, they all lean into the genre and are very, very mechanically focused on what the monster you are is meant to be symbolically.

Pic related. It outright tells you right there on the front what being the Fae is about. You're the shitter hot artsy kid who can tease people into giving you promises and getting all up in their personal space.
That one teenager we all knew who was a little too warm, but also a little too sensitive and intense. You can't make people promise things to you, but when they do you remember it and you've got their heart on a string for doing so.

That immediately incentivises you to play into your character.
You want promises, you want to be close to people, to coax and get them to make stupid vows they're going to regret because that's where your power lies and what your stats, mechanically, reward you for.
Note that as it says, you can't make someone promise to you using your stats (outside of a quick handy via the sex move, but if you're giving out handys in the bathroom for mechanical bonuses then-honestly you're playing it kind of right for a fucked up fairy art kid)
You can just put them in a position where it makes sense for their character to do so.

Every one of the playbooks is this specific and this focused on what their gimmick is, both as a monster and a teenager.
The Witch is both the Craft "Oh god she's got magic" and spiteful weird kid.
The Ghost is both "I'm barely holding onto this world due to being dead" and "My personal boundaries are thick enough that I'm either going to go completely unnoticed or be a school shooter"

>>97446866
That's cool, I like how it's simultaneously simple and specific. This comes across as a social intrigue game where you're expected to play as the same character for some time. Is that right?

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>>97446866
Now, compare and contrast this with the mechanics of Morg Bork which are, again, basically boiler plate osr.
It's based in Black Metal (though not well) and Doom Metal (A little better to be fair), if you want to hit those themes then it can be done, war, death, catastrophe, inevitability.
Thing is just saying "World Am Fucked, 56,043,212,569 dead cops" and then having the entire game before the game ends be about dirtcore rat catchers doing nothing of major significance is:
>Very Germanic in a certain way
>Not leaning particularly strong into the heavy metal aspects of it
And I know what you're going to say, gothic cathedrals, valleys of undead, cursed forests, cannibal warlocks, dick eating goblins from outside of reality, yes-yes, all very metal.
Except that's also quite a lot of other campaign settings.
Wow, it's got Mr Bones in it, let me go get my face paint, rock and roll baby!

Know what Morg Bork needs?
A doom mechanic.
Doesn't have to be fancy, just weld it on there.
You roll it to push your luck and use certain abilities, some abilities you can't even use if your Doom is above a certain level, pushing you to burn it up rather than saving it.
Which leaves you in a real pickle when you have to roll against it to survive some bullshit or avoid tragedy.
But, as your level goes up, your doom comes down.
Permanently.
Because all Good Kings of this Earth die young and all that hardcore shit.

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>>97446962
Swap out end of the world for an apocalyptic war against an occult enemy, a tyrant that knows no equal (Because what is black metal if not Anti-authoritarian), lean into the really hard Last Judgement imagery that Doom Metal is known for and you've got something meaty that players can specifically imagine and you can still fill an art book.

The death of a Borg Bork character, if we're leaning into Black Metal, should call on pagan mythology.
Yes it's comedic to die to a flock of sea gulls, but it's not particularly heavy metal, no one is listening to "Black Gull of the Brighton Pier" and headbanging along to it.
What is metal is hitting 0 Doom, knowing that your character is marked for death-but-also-glory and going out atop a pile of bodies so large that the enemy has to climb over their fallen comrades to get to your pincushion ass because you're holding this bridge until those fuckers drown you in their entrails.
Or, to quote lyrics directly from Emperor:
>The elder among the men looked deep into
>The fire and spoke loud with pride
>Tomorrow is a fine day to die

>Now the morning advance from far East
>Now the Sun breaks through dustclouds and haze
>Now a forest of spears appears on the hill
>And steel shines bright in the Sun's first rays
I came up with that in the 20 minutes since my last post and that leans, mechanically, more into the theming of Hork Snork than anything in the actual book.

>>97446962
Your idea is very similar to the omens mechanic that already exists in the game.

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>>97446925
>This comes across as a social intrigue game where you're expected to play as the same character for some time. Is that right?
Pretty much. And I can guess what you're going to say next (mea culpa if I'm wrong)
>But Mork Bork is meant to be a quick and easy game where you go through characters like pringles then everyone dies at the end.
Yes and the HP situation backs that up nicely.
But. And this is very important.
When was the last time you heard a doom metal or black metal band singing anything along those lines?
I've never heard any of them rasping out a song called "Jimmy the one legged rapist dun got his ass eaten by a wererat (A-dally-dally-doo)"
Let's take Cirith Ungol and pick one of their songs completely at random;
Master of the Pit:
>You know there is no escape
>When you see your world in flames
>As the hellrains pound the darkening land
>Man and sword begin their last stand
For all they say "Oh well Schmorgasport isn't about being a hero" quite a lot of the songs in both genres they claim to be based in (and Heavy Metal in general) are about Big Fucking Heroes (of the Greek type mind you, not the modern type) dying in ways that are interesting and about villains who are a crank or two above 3d6 goblins.
Or to quote that song again;
>With the hearts and tongues of the Gods in their hands
>The Legions of Hell bellow forth their commands
Again, if you want to do a Heavy Metal game then osr isn't the system I'd ever pick as a foundation.
Exalted is closer if anything.

>>97447042
Do you listen to much metal? You seem fixated on the black metal influences. If you read through the designer's inspirations there's a significant amount of sludge and drone metal by artists which often lack any vocals whatsoever. I think the tone is less to do with one genre's lyrics and more to do with soundscapes/aesthetics from a swathe of genres.

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>>97446987
The optional omens rule you mean? If so; hard disagree. Omens in the book as they exist are a luck mechanic and luck mechanics are a whole other kettle of fish since they, in osr games, kind of exist as a bit of a crutch for "Shit the players got in over their heads"
Even on the kickstarter, direct quote here:
>Oh… the (optional, but fun) OMENS. That´s more or less luck points: change one die result, let your weapon do full damage and so on. These are called JÄRTECKEN in the Swedish rules. Sounds very Viking and Black Metal, so feel free to say JÄRTECKEN instead of OMENS if you feel like it.
I mean shit, even the above.
"Well it sounds Black Metal, so surely it is, right? Call it that if you fancy."
Lazy. Utterly Lazy.

Going back to what I was saying though; What I'm talking about is the opposite, an anti-luck mechanic, a "You are inevitably doomed. Shit is fucked and the only question is will you die in a metal as fuck way" mechanic, where you start off a bit safer than most because you're Big Dick Heroes, then it slowly runs dry and you Ajax out in a blaze of glory.
Hell, make it so someone dying, anyone, hits the Doom of the entire crew which, of course, can daisy chain.
>You thought your glorious last stand was going to be in 3-4 levels at the last bridge to the new world that you've been planning to help people escape to from the Wrath of the Fuckerlord? Well Konan played a little too hard and fast with his luck rolls and now you and the rest of the party have seen him die throwing himself into the maw of a Fel Drake and its rider, now stuck hoofing it on foot after you, is about to reach the Enchantress tower before the Great Calling is complete. If she fails? No one is going to know the bridge is there.
>It's time to die with your boots on lads.
Wouldn't that be more metal, in spirit, than the current unique mechanic of "You're all ratfuckers and ratfucker associates. The world is going to end in d100 days, have fun at the castle boys"

>>97396518
There is as much substance in the game as in your post, so basically none.

>>97447109
After reading a Pdf I don't understand all the rage and equal rage filled defense of an Rpg that's grimdark edge for pre-teens

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>>97447091
Shit I had a whole post that just got eaten by the quick reply.
Main point is we're now at the crux, with you, to some degree, admitting yourself that it's a bit of an unfocused game that pulls from too many, sometimes contradictory, genres.
Let's draw from the list of inspirations they state outright for the game, Amongst the Catacombs of Nephren-Ka is suggested listening for it.
Surely that's about fighting goblins for their cumsock collection in rusty dagger shank down so you can suck on them for nutrients right?
>Lo the mighty Sekhmet is with Me
>I enter in among them even as a hawk striketh
>I slay I hew to pieces and cast to the ground
>The royal snake upon my brow
Again, advised listening.

My point is, call it soundscape, call it aesthetics, call it vibes if you like, Pork Fork has a specific style it wants to emulate and I'd argue it fails to do so.
It's got the Dungeon World problem of 'Picked a system, didn't hone it down/focus it, mechanics don't match with the stated goal' and on top of that I'd argue that the style of game it produces doesn't match with the stated goal.
That's my argument.

Now.
Your turn.

I want to hear why you like it.
Don't try to refute what I said, that'd just turn it into a back and forth about my opinion, which isn't a real discussion, not really.
I want you, anon, to put your balls on the table as well by telling me the systems virtues and explaining what you enjoy about it.
Maybe there's something I'm missing after all. I've been wrong in the past, once or twice.

What's it got that I'm not getting?
And I promise that if you give me an actual answer that comes from the heart, even if it's not articulate or long, I'm not going to shank you in it to try and get cheap points, this is a discussion, not an argument, there's no winners here.
You've got an audience of, at least, one attentive listener.
So what's the deal?

>>97411654
>>97411160
You're gay.

>>97447196
Alright thanks. To be honest dude I've no interest in trying to refute any of what you said because it would take a long time. You clearly don't appreciate brevity but you know what you like and what you don't, which is great.
Anyway, we seem to have different ideas on what the intent of the game is so I'll start there. The setting is a moodboard pieced together from scraps of various morbid metal genres. Artwork, lyrics, the way the music makes you feel, whatever the designers found inspiring. What if the world presented by all these different genres was real and cohesive, instead of a myriad of disconnected media? The themes are misery, violence, nihilism, hopelessness. The world will inevitably end. Nothing the PCs do will prevent this. The best they can hope for is to delay the apocalypse enough to die (somewhat) naturally beforehand. The PCs themselves are outcasts, pariahs, unfortunates. Regarding the apocalypse; they're in denial, chasing redemption, or seeking a violent death so they don't have to witness the end (suicide is a sin).
The intent of the game is to somehow present all this misery as compelling. It does this through unique art, mechanics that engage the players and threaten the PCs at all times, and adding a dash of satirical/absurdist humour. Not everyone has the itch but if you do, it's very well scratched.
As for setting/mechanics...

>>97447373
The setting is a footnote. We have a map with key locations and notable figures. An endless cemetry, an apocalyptic death cult/major religion, a king deemed (relatively) kind because he will enforce mass suicide before the end comes. All very cliche, because the source material is too. All left very ambiguous, full of adventure hooks, intrigue, and enough space for creative freedom. I don't want to read entire libraries of lore, excessive prose is restrictive and belongs in a novel. Just give me some key concepts and let me run a game. The story is what happens at the table.
It's worth mentioning that mechanics/spark tables/descriptions/abilities are full of jabs and nudges at the PCs to remind you how despised and degenerate they are, which is both refreshing and amusing.
Mechanics...

>>97447196
not that anon, but for me it's the tables, you roll something like:

>those who walk on two legs shall be nameless as the beasts of the field

and now you have to actually figure out what the fuck that means in the context of the current scenario, it's a puzzle, a haiku, and a vignette all rolled into one. it forces you to build the world on the fly. grabs your attention and makes you hallucinate whole scenarios just from reading a single line. never seen anything like it, like there's plenty of generators in other systems, but can't recall any that would do such a good job (UVG and Death in Space have comparable ones, but MB is grounded in familiar tropes/archetypes, so it hits harder).

the formula seems to be a reversion of something familiar: a conflict, contradiction, opposites, painted with a mood or theme. it evokes a tangible image, but is vague enough that after introducing the hook, it sends your brain chasing ideas to fill in the blanks. if it's deliberate, it's genius. if not, i've been bamboozled into thinking so.

>>97443543
well? why don't other hobbies produce parodies of themselves?

>>97440437
Completely connected. Either it is meant seriously as a game to be played or it is not. No other option.

>>97440448
Ok, I'll rephrase, since you appear to have focused on the least important part of the post for no discernible reason.

Why should I use this product if I have to make all the systems myself, instead of one where I don't have to do that?

>>97447373
kwab

>>97443246
Do funko pops come in packages that tell you you're an idiot for liking funko pops?

>>97447470
So what did you use that prompt for in a game? What wonders emerged from
>those who walk on two legs shall be nameless as the beasts of the field
in a gameable way that you have used?

>>97445936
what do you mean? plenty of games have randomness without modifiers.

>>97447433
Mechanics are a mixed bag. Elegant in some ways and clunky in others, but easy to learn and fast to play. Anyone with even a vague idea of d&d will pick it up in minutes. Is it OSR? No. It's definitely mis-sold in that regard. But I'm no purist, so I don't care.
Chargen is fully randomised. No builds, no analysis paralysis. Just chance, because you're helpless and not in control of your circumstances.
Resolution system is nothing special. It's accessible and intuitive. Default difficulty is high enough to reward playing smart and fighting dirty, applying any advantage you have. Rules for starvation, mutilation, infection are simple yet threatening. Everything is a threat. Even your own spells have a chance to backfire in horrible ways. All of this reinforces those themes of helplessness, misery, violence, and absurdism.
Combat is fast. NPC statblocks are a few numbers and a unique ability or two. Easy to run. No need to worry about balance; it's purposefully swingy because your PCs should never feel safe. Rolling to defend and rolling for armour keeps all players engaged even outside of their turn. PCs get Omens to offset swinginess or do something unusually heroic. Between Omens, armour, and shields, PCs are less fragile than you'd think. The game isn't as high lethality as some claim but death can come from anywhere at any time. Which is fine, because chargen takes a few minutes.

Idk what more to say, it's late. The tone and themes are refreshing, especially to 5e hostages. The artwork stands out from usual fantasy offerings. It's fast, it's accessible, it's often funny. Campaigns are short and sweet, which suits some but not others (personally I prefer that). I've never had a dull moment at the table, and I've run it for five different groups. If you want something crunchy or deeply impactful, it's not for you. If you want to quickly pick something up and explore a few ideas that won't fit into your usual rotation, it's great.

>>97447102
What is lazy about it?

>>97446225
What about any of that was complaining?

>>97446329
Oh yes, mork borg is fucking trash.
I think the lack of capacity to explain it beyond
>vibes man
like >>97447373
does is a good indicator of how lame it is.

>>97396518
I hate it more because it spawned an entire genre of "failed artist makes a shitty B/X clone" RPGs that have no substance to them beyond the art.

>>97447570
eh, you got me, anon. never ran a game myself, never even played MB. the closest i've been to a "diegetic" system was Blade Runner, so i can only extrapolate from that.

we had the most creative character ideas i've seen in my gaming group, those tables drag people out of their creative ruts. the random scenes, rolling to see what the world is about to throw at you, the inevitability of dealing with it, neither the players nor the GM knowing where it's going to take the story, it feels like a whole new way to interact with the medium

i wonder if the novelty wears off after a while, but for a moment it felt like being on drugs.

>>97447735
>it spawned
>the lotfp rippoff
>spawned
Anon, Mork Borg got big because it hit just when Exalted Funeral's marketing got to piggyback off all of Lamentation's edgy momentum they'd shit the bed with via their main artist getting cancelled.

why is it called mork borg? does the name mean anything?

>>97447809
fucking retard

>>97447772
Oh shit dawg. Okay. There's a lot of tables and games with them and the feeling you are experiencing is a real phenomenon where people who have only played shitbox games suddenly feel liberated because its not a total railroad.
There are good tables that are well made for evocative generative gameplay and there are bullshit tables that are just a few farts in a jar that sell to people who don't actually play. There are also tables made for creating content ahead of time vs tables for on-the-fly, both of which work better in concert. Well made tables have actionable information and consequence.
The tables in morkborg as the shit kind that are easy to make and riz idiots who like the bright colours on their coffee table.
There's for sure a variance with how much meat to ephemeral nothing various anons need to get their ideas going but mork borg's tables are just the right mix of totally crap and flashy pushed to the ignorant it gets play.

>>97448074
any good ones to zone out to?

>>97398293
>style over substance and shallow as a puddle of piss.
That's all OSR, you just don't like the aesthetic of one and like the aesthetic of another.

>>97447569
I think it's more implied than said, though I believe some people miss it.

>>97448289
Varies on what you want out of them.
In no particular order
>Garden of Ynn, procedural weird garden dungeon
>D4 Caltrops D100 Wilderness Fauna, also entire collection of tables, all good and very functional
>The Manse, entire collection of tables, more wacky but great stuff
>Yoon-Suin, Orientalism setting generators
>Scarlet Heroes, sword and sorcery pulp + orientalism adventure generation
>Welcome to Corpathium, city generator
>Vornheim, city contents and utility tables
>Veins of the Earth, underdark but artsy
>Into the Wyld, ripoff of Veins, good grimlike forests
>Rackhell, borderlands setting generator
>The Lesser Keys to the Celestial Legion, demon generator, gnostic stuff
>How to Host A Dungeon, map making game with dungeon generation
>Planet Algol, sword & planet content generation
>Nocturnal Table, exotic city encounters
>Stars without Number, space worlds and conflict generation, faction turns
>The Blasphemous Roster, urban thieves and crime generation
>Hubris A World of Visceral Adventure, does what it says.
>GM's Miscellany series, Wilderness and Dungeon books. More towards working function books but decently useful
>AD&D DMG, oldie but a goodie, combine with On Tricks, Empty Rooms, and Basic Trap Design

Artsy stuff I have and maybe fucked up but it looks cool
>Gackling Moon, moon goblins and a lot of random ideas. Doesn't seem very useful.
>Ashen Void, apocalyptic fantasyland I haven't gotten to use, already doing one of those in a different setting, probably should have used this

>>97447711
As has been said many times in this thread alone, some people will be able to use vibes and mood and springboard that into an amazing game, but that does not make a game system amazing. In almost every way, the people heaping praise on MB and similar games because the rules "get out of the way" (or any permutation of that excuse) are like the people who try to reject any criticism of 5e by saying you can just change the rules or have your DM make something up.

>>97448444
Ty!

>>97448503
Don't get lost in the sauce. There's enough tables you can easily lose sight of being able to run the game effectively.
glhf

>>97447809
well?

>>97447809
Swedish for dark fort

>>97446528
>This is your brain on DnD rot
Consider playing games that are neither DnD nor try to copy DnD mechanics.
Which is like 99% of games out there.

>>97447539
>Why should I use this product
You shouldn't.
I never denied that nor told you you should.
Play games you like. Don't play games you don't like.
But don't buy games, ever. Doesn't matter if you like them or don't.
>if I have to make all the systems myself
The system is there. It's just a bad one. But it exists and is (semi) functional.
Somewhat thematically related, given I implore you to pirate shit instead paying for it - Pirate Borg is the closest where the whole Borg format reached actual functionality, which is also why it's the most popular one of them.

>>97447539
>>97449841
Also, to know if you like or not a system, you have to at least read it, and then potentially run/play it.
Which is just another reason to never buy anything, and always pirate. This allows you to have just your final verdict on the game and how you like it (or not), rather than having the extra baggage of "I wasted money on this", that is usually the main issue people end up having with games they don't like.

Case the point:
I have a love/hate relationship with Broken Compass. But I pirated it and it cost me nothing, so I could approach it with a free conscience. This in turn allowed me to then try out Outgunned, which was supposed to fix the game - and it actually does and I like the game very fucking much.
Meanwhile friend of mine bought Broken Compass, tried it, found all its issues and limitations and ended up with 3 books that he is not using, nobody wants to buy them or even exchange with hum and he is so soured by that experience, he doesn't want to even think about giving Outgunned a shot, since he's regretting those 100 bucks.

>>97423277
>lol who fucking cares
People who want to play a game, and don't want to stop every five minutes when you keep running into edge cases that aren't hammered out in the system.

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>>97449854
>I picked a rule-light game
>I want to have concrete rules for all cases
... then don't pick a rule-lite one?
And I mean it. You sound like someone who is angry, because he can't buy a yacht in a car dealership, missing a memo he's in a car dealership
>inb4 hurr the game is bad anyway
That changes nothing about the fact you have completely mismatched expectations.
It's a fucking 10 page of rules game, so of course it's not going to have rules or even rulings for edge cases. If that makes you unable to run it, it's unironically a (You) problem.
Do you deride GURPS Lite for not having shotgun rules included, too?

>>97441134
The funny part is that the review highlighted there is actually a really good vibe check on the game, for lack of a better term. They don't corroborate their points, but it gives you a starting point. I dunno, I trust most of you faggots on this board, especially when you're able to read between the lines, more than most other sites or reviewers.

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>>97441475
>OSR is unironically great for play reports.
Yes anon, no other style of games allows to make AAR, it has to be OSR, which is somehow better in any fucking way for this, because you're a fucking retard that never played anything at fucking all, so how could you know better

>>97447514
... they do.
From the top of my head: there is an entire sub-hobby of poking fun out of diorama makers, but you would have to actually make dioramas yourself to get both the joke and the parodies.
Do you even know what dioramas are?

>>97449828
So you admit that it's not every other game then.

>>97449875
My expectations were that the ruleset would be coherent, and my expectations were not met. And GURPS is a bad example for you to use, even a rules-lite set, because it's designed in such a way that you can easily invent a rule on the spot. All good rules-lite games have that ability, typically. They give you what you need to play, and tools to resolve anything not covered quite easily.

>>97450008
What do you find so incoherent?

>>97449875
So why would I use this if I still have to do everything myself?

>>97450105
what essential rules is it lacking?

>>97441134
>There were also some association with mag28 advertisers which did have a confirmed presence here as well.
I need a source for that.