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>>97412187
So your class should be stronger than every other class because you have a small imagination?

If it's a problem we can just ban magic. You won't have anything to worry about anymore.

>>97412187
>A wizard has magic
>Magic could be any theoretical combination of supernatural powers, so he should have all of them

>This guy has combat training
>This should be limited to real-world manuevers, seen through the lens of a fat neckbeard who's never so much as got into a light scuffle

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>>97412187
...who was it that told you that the guy with a sword doesn't also have superpowers? Its a fantasy setting.

>>97412187
Magic is as powerful as you say it is. Therefore if magic is more powerful than armies or whatever it is because you want a wizard to be strongest.

>>97412239
I feel this one in my soul. My friend calls it Relative Realism where martial stuff needs to be within the confines of what we as normal humans could do but the moment spells are involved suddenly it no longer applies and you can warp reality as much as you want without upper limit because you read good.
For example I understand why Spring Attack isn't a basic thing but under Relative Realism which is the basis for our arguments, any meleefag should in essence be able to stick and move as easy as breathing.
At least we agree Magefags gaslighting Martialfags into not having extra bodies "because it's extra work for the DM" then becoming the archetype which has animal companions and summon spells was a scummy thing to do.

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>>97412239
Worst part is that most people that pretend to be wizards on /tg/ are the most unimaginative brats around, going on about how powerful the ability to warp reality is but never actually suggesting anything creative to do with that power beyond casting bigger and bigger fireballs.

Pointless as this caster vs martial bullshit is, if you're going to perpetuate this shit the minimum you can do is make the stupid bullshit you claim your favored side can do sound fun. Swinging a sword hard enough to rupture mountains and turn bodies into a red mist is more fun to listen to than "I waved my magic stick around and the bad guys died" for the umpteenth time.

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>>97412261
>MagiReco posting in /tg/

>>97412187
Fun settings have bigger drawbacks for magic use than just “nebulous energy chits you get back at the start of the day from nothing”.

>>97412379
>Hey, so should we like... check how well pro athletes and strongmen and expert HEMA guys can do stuff?
>>nah, I just sit around the office and roughly guess how hard or easy something should be based on how well I think I could do it. Swinging a sword more than two times in 6 seconds sounds really, really hard because I think swords are probably like.. what? 50 pounds?
>what about magic?
>>I just make up whatever I want because it's fantasy makebelieve..

>>97412213
FPBP.

Pretty sure all classes have superpowers.

>>97412187
>OP wants plot armor, components on demand, all PCs to protect him above themselves or any other, and no stronger wizard to ever oppose him.

Magic is like taming a wild beast, it may turn on you at any moment

>>97412605
Yeah but that's not really a mechanic in D&D, is it?

>>97412638
wild magic table, nogames

>>97412696
So, Sorcerers only, and only for one subclass, and only if you roll 1 when the DM asks you to roll, if he remembers to. Thrilling.

>>97412724
imagine not having a dm that can apply concepts beyond the RAW.

>>97412741
>Once per turn, the DM can have you roll a d20 immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher.
The concept, RAW, is "the DM can call for it if he wants to"

>>97412764
the concept is wild magic, anon, not the two sentences WoTC jotted down to gamify it.

>>97412187
I think it is weird that a guy in a bathrobe could ever compare to a drug addict with a shiv opening his kidneys for 10d6 sneak attack damage.

If rogues aren't constantly showered in wizard tears my errection is immediately flaccid.

>>97412770
>My DM can just fix it for me!
Classic D&D brainrot.

>>97412821
oh boy are you the guy who thinks RAW is all a game should be

>>97412770
>gamify
I sure do hate it when my games are games.

>>97412187
Your personal threshold for immersion isn't qualitative of any correctness, duty, or obligation for the entirety of fantasy games to do anything.
Make your own games how you want, retard.

>>97412895
I sure do hate when my strawmans are made of straws.

>>97412883
The argument was that the mechanical shortcomings of D&D could just be fixed by your DM.

>>97412985
again, wrong. the argument is the concept already exists in the setting.

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These threads are kind of nice. The new baits suck. So do these old ones, but at least they make me feel nostalgic.

>>97412187
Oh, I forgot to add "should" to my filter lists.
The only value your garbage thread has was to serve me as a reminder to update them.

>>97412187
>we have now made this bait thread 37844 times and we have become extremely efficient at it

>>97412187
Good thread anon! I can't wait until next week and you create a thread about how the Fighter/Rogue/Cleric/whatever you are playing that day should be the most powerful! You really got us thinking and raised the quality of RPG playing in general!

>>97412239
Personally, I would simply choose to have the spell required to solve the situation. Some people out here didn't invent healing magic from first principles and it SHOWS.

>>97412605
>>97412696
I once had a goat with a level of wild magic sorcerer as a level 1 encounter. Funny stuff.

>>97412261
This.

>Spellcasters affect the world around them with their magical power through spells

>Martials affect themselves with magical power, becoming superhuman in all aspects

Are you the same as that DM who bans martials for being boring? If not I think you two would get along.

Have fun dealing with things that basically say lmao to your magic

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Seething magiclets ITT

>>97412239
A level 10 fighter can already take a two handed battleaxe to the chest and keep fighting easily, there is no "real world fighting" capability

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>>97412932
My personal threshold for immersion is qualitative for the entirety of fantasy games.

Heracles would shit on any wizardcel

>>97412955
So, "gamify" doesn't pertain to games?

>>97414792
I think he's just a troll, or a bot trained to make troll posts.
His idiocy is solved immediately by him making a game how he wants or working with a GM to houserule something he wants; it's both one of the most rudimentary aspects and one of the greatest benefits of tabletop roleplaying games.
The fact that he doesn't know this outs him as one of the many types of worthless bottom-feeders that plague our board.

>>97412187
They're all wizards you fucking dolt. A level 20 martial that can swing a sword good? He's a sword wizard. An archer? Bow wizard. Barbarian? Rage wizard.
If magic exists in a setting that has non-casters in a competence level similar to casters it's because it permeates everything. No need to filter martials through our world's limitations, otherwise let's limit wizards too and now they don't have magic either.
>"b-b-b-but then they're cheating, magic should only be the domain of casters"
Then physical prowes, any level of it, should be limited to martials. Good luck achieving level 9 spells when your muscles are so deteriorated you can't even use the somatic components for cantrips or equip implements. Congrats, martials are now mundane guys with sticks and you're Hellen Keller.

>>97416635
>A level 20 martial that can swing a sword good?
Just say "swordsman", for fuck sake.

>>97412239
Yeah.

>>97412741
Why did we buy the rulebook?

>>97412883
If your game doesn't work how you want it to out of the box, what did you pay the designer for?

>>97413321
We're discussing games. Not settings. /lit/ is down the hall.

>>97414792
There are none, of course.

>>97414778
FF14 is good at this. Everyone in the world has and uses aether, for everything from intercontinental teleportation to heating up your frying pan evenly for the perfect sear on your steak. Using aether is like singing: everyone can do it, not everyone can do it WELL. Just because you can muddle your way through a chorus of happy birthday that doesn't make you a rock star.
As a result, all of the jobs in the game use aether for different effects. craft aether into temporary constructs as summoning or to form shields, donate and shape aether to heal your allies, use aether to fling yourself into the air and spear-fight a dragon in melee 500 ft off the ground, or store up your aether into a pressure cooker for an explosive release of force, etc.

Wizards exist, and what they do with aether is much more complex, but complex doesn't always mean more powerful. A force field can protect an area and is very useful under the right circumstances, but another person using the same amount of aether channeled into a physical blow focused on one spot *will* break through it.

>>97412187
Every "Hero(ine)" is, in a manner of speaking, "Magic(k)al" -- the questions are: to what degree & which direction?

The typical Wizard's Magic(k) is predominantly EXTERNAL, in the form of spells light Fireball being cast at outside targets.

On the other hand, the typical Warrior has their Magic(k) focused towards the INTERIOR of their person and/or weapon, making them personally more elusive & resistant against all forms of harm (such as Fireball spells), tougher, faster, stronger, able to hit more accurately and cause greater damage to their foes.

Bards, Seducers, Rogues, and all manner of other "Classes" also somehow spec their Chi/Jing into various Class-relevant foci in the same manner.

So, according to this theory, yes: Swordguy has a decent chance of somehow defeating Spellguy by virtue of each guy being magical (differently magical, but still magical).

>t. read earthdawn a long time ago and never played but liked the idea of player characters basically being like this

>>97416749
I would, but I'm talking to a casterfag, all of his intelligence is in his character sheet.

>>97412379
Worst part is most of the restrictions placed on martials aren't even realistic.

>Full plate armor, if properly fitted, barely impedes you at all IRL. You can look up youtube videos of people doing cartwheels and parkour and shit while wearing it
>Greatswords are way, way lighter and easier to handle than fantasy games would have you believe

just off the top of my head. If people are gonna argue that martials ought to be constrained by realism, then they could at least get realism right.

>>97414808
>It's 2026 and people still think DnD Hit Points are purely meat points

>>97418451
poison
disintegrate
walking through lava
how does having more luck/panache/skill let you survive these? it's clearly just being a sturdy meathead

>>97418243
>Full plate armor, if properly fitted, barely impedes you at all IRL. You can look up youtube videos of people doing cartwheels and parkour and shit while wearing it
I feel like I need to cut in here. I agree with the rest of your post, but there's a tremendous difference between "although it takes practice and extra effort, it is possible to execute some flashy maneuvers in plate armor" and "it barely impedes you at all." It is still a shell of steel that restricts your movements and flexibility, making even mundane movements significantly more taxing than normal. No matter how well-distributed that weight is, it still weighs on you. No matter how well-articulated the joints and plating are, it still gives you very noticeable resistance when you move a joint, and it will still reduce your maximum range of arm movement as well as torso flexibility (this is much bigger than it sounds like) and leg movement. It also acts as a thermal barrier, and very often you will end up sweating like a pig if you wear it more than a few minutes, especially with the usual layers of gambeson and other padding underneath it.
There is considerable nuance between "it makes you a literal crawling turtle who can't get back up if he tips over" and "it's barely an impediment at all," and the truth is in the middle. It is a very significant impediment, no matter how advanced and well-fitting it might be. You can learn to handle that impediment better, much like you can adjust to most handicaps, but that doesn't make it go away. Just as one example among many, try swimming in it, and you will have a very, very bad time.

>>97418497
Luck lets you survive everything nigga, people have fallen out of planes and survived purely because they were lucky enough to land on the one thing that made the fall slightly less bad or landed on the one part that prevents them from turning into paste on the pavement. Your argument hinges on a handful of relatively rare or at least uncommon threats, compared to the vast majority of threats in the game being things that luck, panache and skill (while also combine with stamina, and yes, big meat) could reasonably mitigate.

>>97418791
Which, I will note, older versions of DnD had an answer for in that you just fucking died or suffer ability damage when exposed to things that "logically" couldn't be mitigated with HP sources,

>>97414808
>Real-world maneuvers
not
>Real-world capacity to absorb injury

Being an orb of adamantium does little for your ability to do things, merely your resistance to dying to !normal! forms of !physical! damage. And that's assuming the GM doesn't slam down a 'rocks fall, you die' on top of you.

>>97418451
D&D abstracts HP poorly; things that should reduce fighting stamina and luck outright don't, so I understand why some people still think they're meat points.

>>97412883
If the game doesn't have the thing you want by RAW, then maybe you should play a game that does. If you're going to have to do the game design yourself, why bother with the books?

>>97418871
To give the starving billionaire corporations more money.

>>97418847
Not only that, but things that should only apply on taking serious injury are applied on every single instance of damage.

In fact, while there are some basic interactions in both 3.x and 5e D&D where you could argue for either HP = meat or HP = luck during some basic interactions like taking hits from weapons, in every case I've ever seen the game always defaults to HP = meat when the two interpretations are incompatible. This applies to unavoidable damage, rider effects on damage and healing - they all behave as if all damage is equally injuring, and higher level characters can in fact suffer a battle ax hit to the chest and keep on going.

>>97412187
What worldbuilding?

>>97418846
Tanking a battleaxe to the face to counterattack is not a real world maneuver.

>>97418497
Why do you think it doesn't?

>>97420491
it is in armored fighting

>>97418847
can't name any examples lol

>>97418993
all of those deplete luck

>>97412187
The idea that non-magical and non-powered adventurers would even exist in a world filled with inherently magical, paranormal, and supernatural creatures and materials is, to put it politely, fucking retarded.
To survive, the people of a tribe, of a clan, of a faction, of a dominion, of a country, of a continent, of a world, and beyond, WILL either account for the hostilities and dangers present, or they die. A swordsman who has none of his own power to confront or resist magic would not exist. An archer might have more of an advantage while not being seen, but depending on his target's level of magic, and the powers magic afford users in general, but his luck would only last for so long.

D&Dfags, or those who latch onto D&D's many imitators, will never understand this, because they think adding endless pop culture references, movie icons, and literature legends to a kitchen sink makes for good game design and sensible worldbuilding, when it accomplishes neither.
Don't put shit in your games that don't belong there in the first place, and if you do, you don't deserve to make claims of superiority.

>>97421140
DnD insists that it exists in some weird in between space where all fantastical elements of the world are so astronomically rare that the common people that live in the setting have never seen magic, never heard of it, it has in no way changed their lives beyond what would be normal for a medieval peasant, and they have put about as much thought into what to do about magical problems as they have what to do about Y2K in a world without computers.

Simultaneously, the players can't go an hours walk in any direction without stumbling across a new monster to fight, a town of 11 people has a general store that sells every magic item under the sun, and the only thing keeping the illiterate blacksmith who makes horseshoes for a living from making a +10 Flame Bursting Vampirebane Katana is how much gold you are willing to pay him to do it.

>>97421297
>DnD insists that it exists in some weird in between space where all fantastical elements of the world are so astronomically rare that the common people that live in the setting have never seen magic

That is directly contradicted in one of the first pages of the 5th edition Dungeon Master's Guide.

>The World Is Magical. Practitioners of magic are relatively few in number, but they leave evidence of their craft everywhere. The magic can be as innocuous and commonplace as a potion that heals wounds to something much more rare and impressive, such as a levitating tower or a stone golem guarding the gates of a city. Beyond the realms of civilization are caches of magic items guarded by magic traps, as well as magically constructed dungeons inhabited by monsters created by magic, cursed by magic, or endowed with magical abilities.

Spellcasters are rare; magic is a known factor, however, with most people seeing magic at at least a few points in their lives, even if only in the form of a minor healing potion.

>it has in no way changed their lives beyond what would be normal for a medieval peasant

Given how rare genuine epidemics are in typical D&D settings, I'm not sure this holds up. Any time you see a plague popping up it's always magical in nature and with a distinct cause that can be stopped. You don't get Black Death-like plagues. How could you, when healing magic is relatively ubiquitous?

Depends on the magic. The idea that it will always fuck you over is silly. Most magic is for making life easier.

But if the magic is about fucking people over, then, well… this is why you went to witch doctors and priests.

>>97421297
>and the only thing keeping the illiterate blacksmith who makes horseshoes for a living from making a +10 Flame Bursting Vampirebane Katana is how much gold you are willing to pay him to do it.

...ohhh, you're talking 3.5. In that case magic is even *more* common. Even the smallest thorp is statistically likely to have at least 1 1st-level NPC Adept, who might only have 0 and 1st level spells, but those include things like cure minor wounds, cure light wounds, mending, purify food and drink, comprehend languages, and bless.

As for that weapon you mentioned, just a +10 katana on its own requires, to *start*:
- A DC 18 check for an exotic weapon (bastard sword, which is statistically a katana)
- A separate DC 20 check to make the "masterwork" component (required to make a magic item)

A typical village blacksmith might have:
- No ranks in Craft (Weaponsmithing) because he's a blacksmith, not a weaponsmith

So he can't actually make the above.

If you find a *weaponsmith*, he'll probably be 1st level and so might have:
- 4 ranks in Craft (Weaponsmith)
- +3 from Skill Focus (Weaponsmith)
- For a total modifier of +7. This means he can't take 10 to succeed on making the weapon (since his take 10 result is 17), he must actually roll.

I'll skip over the fine details, but the long and short of it is that even making the bastard sword is likely beyond his skill as he needs to make multiple checks over the course of at least a few weeks to craft it, and if he fails by 5 or more he ruins the effort and has to start all over again. And the masterwork component is even *harder*.

>>97412187
People who are angry at your thread are all worthless faggots.

>>97421329
/thread

A lot of magic was just doing something really quickly and efficiently. Even Tolkien mentioned that magic is based around haste and pragmatism. “I want it to rain NOW”. “I want my wart gone NOW”. Etc.

>>97421297
No, a town of 11 people has basically nothing for sale. Read the rules.

>>97421140
That's because in a setting where "Magic" is a fundament of the universe, which works on fantasy logic, doesn't make sense, because in a setting where the gods created the world and peopled it with beings by fucking magic, everything is magic, including the poop in your but, and your highschool bully, and also the poop in his butt for that matter.

That is why things get magic saves.
In a setting that runs on magic, there is no such thing as "not magic" just "Less magic".

>>97421438
Honestly, the OP seems far angrier

>>97417065
>the Machinist "Reload" skill was just using aether to cram bigger bullets into your gun
Still mad they removed it for g*nbr*aker.

>>97418791
>poison is uncommon

>>97421297
>>97421327
It depends on the setting. Faerun for example is magical kitchen-sink land where the average level is 3-5 for commoners to have some ability in magic or special abilities and minor magical items and effects are fucking everywhere.

>>97421593
>everything is magic, including the poop in your but,
Ah yes, the reagent for my acid and fire spells.

The "game" OP wants to play is where all other players are impotent failures while he gets to solve anything with a push of a button.
This requires the GM and other players be stupid or stubborn enough to not get up and do something else.
Therefore I suggest OP that he find a 3.5 game where he's the only spellcaster in the party.

>>97414778
You're on the right track, but saying non-casters also use magic, just makes them into a different kind of caster. They need to not use any form of magic at all, and still be superhuman

>>97412883
Nigger, RAW is what the game is. Anything else is "whatever I pull out of my ass." Meaning you can just make shit up. When talking about how a game works, RAW is all that matters, because anything else, means literally anything else.

>>97413396
They had the balls to remove the page, but not to destroy it

>>97412187
And that's totally okay. There are games and groups that will meet your criteria, and you can enjoy them. I wish you the best.

>>97412187
I think that there should be a factor of aging like in real life sport or fighting: older wizards should not be able to perform magic in such a powerful way as young wizards, but older wizards should be more knowledgeable like sport coaches/former athletes IRL. Even human intellectual abilities peak at the age of ~30-40.

>>97423236
This would fit well with master/apprentice relationships and wizard conclaves: its not just about training a successor, its being able to combine the master's knowledge with the apprentice's vigor. Or, in the case of a conclave, a bunch of masters doing together what none of them has the juice to do by themselves anymore.

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>be powerful wizard
>stare at goblin pussy all day

They're useless.

>>97412187
And Clerics literally channel the power of gods. What can a mere mortal do in the face of such capability?

>>97412187
Good luck with your ‘save versus full blooded zweihander slash to the neck’.

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>>97412187
Weaboo Fightin Man > Some nerd in a tower.

>>97423252
You dont know that they do tricks with their pussy. It is like staring at a magic card trick.

>>97426059
>attacking an illusion
kek

>>97421593
>his fantasy has shit in it
Magical realm fetishist detected.

>>97426938
>fetishit
cmon anon, do better

>>97421297
Lampshading isn't an argument.
Tigers were everywhere in ancient times and could rip primitive humans asunder, but they weren't always hunting humans 24/7.
We "won" against tigers because of our ability to communicate in complex language combined with our ability to make tools combined with our ability to throw really fucking hard.
We accounted for a danger to make up for our lack of agility, reflexes, and innate physical strength.

In order for nonmagical adventurers to exist, there needs to be prominence of objects that resist/cancel magic (represented by something other than randomized shops or magic item dispenser NPCs, and more prominent than finding one object deep in a cave once in a blue moon) or an equalizer power accessible through training.
The "tiger" in this case is the magic, and the equalizers are what help the living people living in their world filled with magic.
Oh, but wait, Conan didn't use magic and Han Solo wasn't a Force User, so we can't have a system that makes sense. We need a kitchen sink system for our Fortnite-tier crossfic where casters are the only useful player option.

>>97412187
Now there's a copypasta I haven't seen in a while.

>>97412187
A levle is a metric of power. Two characters of the same level should be roughly equivalent in terms of power, and thus able to approach similar challenges with similar ease or difficulty. The further away you get from that, the further you get from the structure of levels making any sense.

Note that this isn’t the same thing as “a wizard’s spell should just be mechanically the same as a fighter’s sword swing, but with different flavor”. Rather, the tools available to different characters of the same level ought to be able to resolve analogous challenges, even if they’re resolved in very different ways—and while introducing different complications. Maybe a wizard can teleport onto the other side of a castle wall but has now used up his teleport and has to find another way back out, while the fighter can smash open a passage through it and come and go freely but now everyone knows he’s there.

>>97422766
There is a fundamental difference in the mechanics of it. Magic is using mana to influence the world around you. It is explicitly external. You cannot affect yourself with your own magic. Ever.

>>97426988
Nah casters should be overpowered

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>>97423252
>I saw that yesterday, lets change the Channel
>NEXT!!!!

>>97412187
Wizards shouldn't be the strongest class in the game.
Clerics should.
Clerics channel the divine power of the gods at their behest. The gods are the strongest entities around, they run the whole show and they are invested enough in their clerics to grant them a morsel of their power.
Wizards are, at best, committing a lifetime of study to imitating a tiny fraction of the power of the gods, never coming anywhere close to opposing them. After all, if the strongest wizard in all of history was capable of fighting back against the gods in any meaningful way, the gods wouldn't allow wizards to exist. Studying the arcane would just get you blackbagged by angels or struck by lightning.

How you make this work in a game is that there is a spectrum of power vs constraints in terms of casters. At one extreme end are classes like Clerics, which have objectively the strongest magical powers BUT that comes with hard limits places on them by their gods according to their faith. These are the things you god allows you to do, these are the things you god forbids you to do, your god is always looking over your shoulders and the good news is sometimes they will bail you out of trouble but the bad news is sometimes they will command you to do shit thats seriously inconvenient for you and saying no isn't an option. Forget losing your powers, if you piss off your patron god you're likely to end up with some eternal ironic punishment.

At the other end of the spectrum are classes like wizards, who are beholden to no one and can study whatever they want and use their power however they see fit, but their magic is also the *weakest* of the casters. They cannot reach the peaks of magic power that those who have enslaved themselves to otherworldly forces can beg off of their masters, but what they have is freedom and independence.

And in the middle you have things like druids and warlocks, making deals or following rules for power but not as locked down as a cleric is.

>>97412239
/thread
we never need to have this discussion ever again

>>97428472
As long as /tg/ has existed, there have been "martial" vs caster debates. As long as /tg/ continues to exist, there will be "martial" vs caster debates.

>>97428513
And until that final day where the site goes down and never returns, the martial vs caster debate will still pretend that dnd 3.5 is the current edition of DnD and cite it for all discussions on the subject.

>>97428530
3.5 is the only game retard

Wizards win, last post.

>>97422766
This seems like an aesthetic issue. Why does it matter why they are superhuman as long as it makes sense in setting?

Wizards win, last post.

>>97436077
You said it, it's a matter of aesthetics. Most nerds that obsess over this obsess over the idea that they have to be mutually exclusive, rather than a case of one form of combat adapting to the presence of another and vice versa.

Wizards win, last post.

>>97440483
Nice last post, anon!

>>97422050
And where you are in that setting. I bet there are places in Faerun where there are little to magic stuff. You are probably not going to find many if any magic items in Nowheredale.

>>97412187
How is this Sauronman?

Wizards win, last post.

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>>97446631
You wish!

>>97418451
>its not meat points! Its luck and stuff!
Ok, so how does healing work?
>uhhhh

>>97450080
By restoring luck and stuff, obviously. Were you not paying attention?

If HP are luck, breaking a mirror should deplete them and finding a four-leaf clover should replenish them.

>>97412213
Based

>>97450201
Depends on the system and the setting.

Wizards win, last post.

>>97412261
>>97422766
You can call it something other than "magic" and have it work by different rules in lore, but I think the assumption often is that a high-level fighter is supernatural in a way as well. The amount of damage they can cause and withstand, etc. A high-level fighter is more than just a well trained fighter irl would be, he's some kind of superhero.

Wizards win, last post.

>>97457609
Nah.

Wizards win, last post.

>>97463447
If you wanted the last post, why did you bump the thread?

Wizards win, last post.

test

Wizards win, last post.

>>97470226
If you wanted the last post, why did you bump the thread?

>>97412261
That's just a wizard channeling power through his body then.

>>97470723
No.

>>97412187
I will agree that someone with mastery of the arcane arts should, in theory, have an advantage in a straight up, final destination, no items, spawn on opposite ends fight. Without magical items to defend themselves the warrior is relying on armor designed to defend against blades being even remotely effective against a guy who can summon an eldritchian being inside their asshole or boil all the water in their bodies. That being said, the arcane arts and their mastery should be treated exponentially more difficult to master or perform than martial prowess and someone who spent 20 years mastering the blade would be head and shoulders more effective than a wizard who studied magic for only 20 years. By the time they get to your desired level of OPness we should be looking at unnaturally extended lifetimes worth of study, and the neglecting of all other forms of combat that go with that, such that while they can vaporize the barbarian with a word if said barbarian manages to huck a rock at their head before they can sense or react to the presence the wizard is getting merked. Conan willnalways have the best wizard balancing of all sword and sorcery material. Rare, obscenely powerful, but still mortal and not a terribly impressive one outside of magic at that

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>>97412187
The mage cannot cast his spell if you disable his hand

>>97471271
No such thing as should.

>>97472479
>still spell

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>>97412187
"No matter how skilled the wizard, a knife between the shoulder-blades will really cramp his style."

Vlad Taltos, Assassin.

>>97474482
Indeed.
Wizards were always glass cannons. When you invest more in body armour, your attack will be less. And vice versa.

>>97474482
>>97475489
Mages are harder to kill than martials. You've never played the game.

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>>97412187
Wizards aren't be the strongest class because mundane crafters mog them in every meaningful way.

>>97475489
>glass cannon

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>>97476276
>>97476312
When you fight as a lvl 5 barbarian a lvl 90 wizard with protection, healing and reanimate spells.

>>97480686
what

>>97481173
It's a slop poster, clearly his brain has degenerated to the point of incoherence.

>>97412187
this faggot doesnt know the foundations of sword and sorcery

>>97481173
A wizard will be stronger when you dont foght on his level.

>>97480686
No, any level, sorry.

>>97482769
Nah. Most low level wizards in D&D are brittle as hell.

>>97476296
>polymorph any object
>true creation
>fabricate

>>97482779
No, not at all.

>>97482793
Nah, it's true. Low level casters die all the time. They're made of tissue paper. It's the reason why most even put up with their higher-level counterparts, they know that they at least earned it or had to get hard carried to get to that point.

>>97482806
Everyone at low levels is made of tissue paper. Stop projecting AD&D onto other games.

>>97412187
Being delusional shouldn't grant you superpowers.

>>97482138
What does that have to do with me greentexting "glass cannon" in disappointment and disapproval?

>>97412638
Not my fault you insist on playing only terrible games.

>>97482885
I specifically said it was an example from D&D, you nebbish little retard. Fuck off.

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They literally are at later levels tho.

>>97482806
Nope, mages have better mitigation.

>>97490336
Nah, they fold like crazy. Frankly, magic sucks, and so do the people who obsess over this shit.

>>97412187
Just make everyone a magic user. A wizard is a class that focuses their magic outward to do shit like cast fireballs, a fighter is a class that focuses their magic inward to make themselves stronger and tougher.
If you removed the buffing abilities of Wizards/Clerics/Druids and made marital classes capable of self buffing with up to 9th level spells then it would do a lot to balance them.

>>97418451
It's the rulesystem itself that treats them that way despite the specification. Personally, to avoid confusion, i simply describe them as the "grit" to go beyond, damage is described as "a flesh wound" if HP > 0 or "a crippling injury" if HP < 0 without overthinking it.

>>97412187
Magic is not superpowers. Superpowers are an inherent part of a being that can be called at will, magic is a system that functions according to rules that balance it.

>>97490440
Nope.

>>97493582
Superpowers are a system that functions according to rules that balance it.

>>97493721
I accept your concession

>>97493728
Are they?

>>97493738
I accept yours.

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>>97493771

>>97494689
Already gave up your chance.

>>97494739
Nope, you did.

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>>97427261
>Are you pondering what I'm pondering?

>>97422766
Anon, magic isn't just spells, and therefore having and using it doesn't automatically make you a caster. It makes for a fun joke, but you're not actually a muscle wizard and don't cast fist; you have Killing Hands and your hand to hand strikes not only can inflict (D)eadly damage, it also can't be circumvented via regeneration.

This is different from Death Touch because, oddly enough, that can be circumvented via regeneration, and it targets something completely different rather than acting like a standard attack.