>>97452608
It is more like traveler lite than b/x to be honest. Ashes without number is the only one I have experience with, but it works well. All of them have pretty nice tables that can apply to other systems which is one of the strengths. Some are more superfluous than others, like the military and trader starts without numbers books, while something like twilight legion are a really good setup for any cult in general among any game.

>>97452608
Great setting material in SWN, married to a truly dogshit core system. I've demoted the book to "setting prompt fodder" and kept on using D6.

>>97452608
Games without Soul

>>97452608
they're really good on the GM side but they're absolutely barren and boring on the player side

>>97452608
I've used the GM facing sector generation/world building tools in SWN, Dead Names' alien civ and ruins generation tools and the mythos generation in Silent Legions. All great stuff. The faction setup for SWN is decent, haven't run it enough as is to advocate it but I like the mechanics.
Run a decent amount of Scarlet Heroes and An Echo Resounding, largely like them and think they're easy to work with as a mix of abstract and easily mechanizable. Clever designs all around, focused on functional stuff. An Echo Resounding's mass combat did not look good so I haven't used it and went straight to wargames.
>how dollars?
Not sure, didn't see or participate in any of those but probably something along the lines of
>make useful thing
>see if people want to pay for useful thing + look good
>don't be an asshole and avoid the drama
>????
>profit

Haven't looked into the post apoc or cyberpunk ones yet though.

>>97452608
>Stars Without Number
Yes
>Worlds Without Number
Yes
>Cities Without Number
No
>Ashes Without Number
No
>Have you played these?
See above
>Are they fun?
Yes
>How did one guy raise a gorillion dollars on Kickstarter to publish multiple games that are just houseruled B/X?
World generation tables are fuckin kick-ass. And it's very-much NOT a houseruled B/X. One of the defining features of TSR-era D&D is attribute checks. Literally anything that isn't otherwise defined in the rules? Attribute check. Without Numbers completely does away with it. Massively changes the entire vibe.

>>97452956
See, i have the opposite experience.
We stripped it of the fairly generic setting and used it to replace the shitty non-mecha parts of Lancer.

>>97454257
>One of the defining features of TSR-era D&D is attribute checks. Literally anything that isn't otherwise defined in the rules? Attribute check. Without Numbers completely does away with it. Massively changes the entire vibe.
It just replaces it with 3.0 and later style skills on a 2d6+stat scale though.

>>97454394
Correct: it "just" changes the system that defines the difference between TSR and WotC. That's what I said, too.

>>97452608
I wish the author would make a proper hyperlinked online free resource, like how there's a PFSRD, d20HeroSRD, or DWGazeteer or instead of just the PDFs. It would make the system a lot more well known I think.

So instead I've been slowly making one.
https://sites.google.com/view/splats-without-number/home

copying from PDF to website is kind of a massive pain though. I'm having to use a google sheets regex script to remove all the line spaces, line breaks, etc, then copy paste each split apart and recombined cell into the site.

>>97452608
>How did one guy raise a gorillion dollars on Kickstarter to publish multiple games that are just houseruled B/X?
He releases free versions with premium having a few extra things, he also has a 100% delivery on his kickstarters.

>>97454515
so what's your take then, it's a simplified 3.0? That's just 5e.

>>97452608
I've had very mixed results with both the WN systems i've run thus far (Worlds and Ashes). planning to run a Cities game somewhat soon to see how that one plays. like others have said, the setting / world generation tools are fantastic, but the systems themselves are just not very good and seem to kind of fall apart fairly quickly. they're in this weird awkward middle ground where they don't feel balanced enough for people who like newer systems, but lower level player characters often end up feeling way too powerful for me as someone who prefers the feeling of old school D&D's early to mid levels.

all that said they aren't bad systems, they're pretty fun to run and play, they just have some jank

>>97454741
>He releases free versions with premium having a few extra things,
giving stuff out for free is ironically a good way to make a lot of money if your name isn't Epic Games.

People like to try before they buy, and even the people that can't pay become good word of mouth. I don't think Pathfinder could have competed with 4e nearly as well if it wasn't for the PFsrd/archive of nethys. Hell, I think the pdf leakers and 5e.tools programmers did wotc a massive favor, everyone i know who bought a book started with their group using one of those two first. As much of a leg up as Crit Role and Stranger Things were.

>>97452608
I actually like SWN, I just find it weird how non-intuitive the effort system is and how it's confined to just the adept's psychic powers.

The powers themselves are another matter because the formatting and thematic choices kind of throw my autism a bit.

>>97455769
I like that I feel like he went out of his way to make psychic powers feel like something other than just refluffed normal d&d fantasy magic.

>>97455769
There are expert, warrior, and especially mage (half-)classes that also use Effort in Worlds, Cities, and Ashes.

The rule of thumb is that Effort powers weird™ abilities. Not always inherently magical, but at the very least the kind of thing that would make a person in real life raise an eyebrow in disbelief and ask what the fuck they just saw. Like the scene in cowboy bebop where the dude's horse shows up in the elevator. That's almost literally the Cowboy power Trusty Steed.

Though when mutant does something freaky, it just uses system strain since it doesn't have an effort pool.

>>97456196
oh, also that Effort is NOT for High Magic, which is slightly more vancian in that it has spell level where your max access goes up as character level goes up and uses spells-per-day, separate resource from Effort, and doesn't jive with multiclassing any other kind of magical ability.

>>97455769
It's written oddly because it's a power currency where stronger powers make you recover it slower rather than costing more

>>97454751
Could it be that anon isn't trying to make an insanely reductive comparison for no reaaon? Truly food for thought there.

>>97454394
>It just replaces it with 3.0 and later style skills on a 2d6+stat scale though.
This is just traveller. The without number series are traveller lite meets oldschool dnd classes shitbrew + flavor

SWN was fun for a few months. As everyone says the GM materials are great. The faction system is the only thing I didn't adore but it worked pretty well RAW even if I ended up tweaking how it played out later in the campaign. The biggest issue we had is that psychic characters were incredibly OP compared to other characters and it didn't take long for that to happen. Teleportation especially is fucking broken and almost impossible to design an adventure around.

>>97452608
I've enjoyed the couple games I've played (one of the other players even made a couple nice pieces of art for one of them), but I haven't been able to get my main group interested. The system takes a bit of getting used to if you're coming in from something like D&D 5e, but it's fairly straightforward once you get a feel for it.

>>97453458
Please explain.

>>97454751
That's it's a unique system built on the skeleton of D&D but isn't anywhere close to being "Houseruled B/X." It takes that as a starting point to draw you in w/ a surface-level familiarity and builds its own skills, damage, magic and vehicle combat on top of some wonderful location, npc and adventure creation rules.

>>97456297
Exactly.

>>97454257
>And it's very-much NOT a houseruled B/X. One of the defining features of TSR-era D&D is attribute checks.
Fucking kill yourself you retard

>>97457929
It is though. If you actually play B/X, that's absolutely a core mechanic that those of us who stick to TSR D&D really hate the change from WotC versions over. Coming up w/ DCs and having "now add this and this and that and the other thing" is bullshit versus "roll a d20 against our attributes." Those of us who still play oldschool D&D love that mechanic.

>>97452608
I've used the GM tools a lot. Not sure about the rules because they are presented in a annoying fashion.
I'd buy a book but they cost a fortune and are never in print.

>>97457929
(you)

File: 1764756836048849.png (115.3 KB)

115.3 KB PNG

Setting Sans Numeral is the only family of systems that I run these days.

I like how skill checks work
I like that every step of character creation is laid out in the very first chapter
I like that player characters can actually die to gunfire
I like that the focuses and classes are distilled down to a pure liquor that isn't tied to any particular canon

I don't like the GM tools and never use them, which makes me a weirdo apparently

>>97452608
really good sandboxing tools but i'm not playing anything that doesn't have a universal mechanic

>>97458273
Do you ever mix and match the systems? How well does it work?

>>97452608
AWn games I spectated always DMed by a gay americna. Like all the 6 games I saw on discord. why

>>97458298
>games I spectated
Do they really...?

>>97457244
i had a similar experience with the Ash Sorcerer optional class in Ashes, it's just incredibly unbalanced and feels like it wasn't playtested very thoroughly. basically breaks the entire game after like third level depending on the disciplines and arts taken. granted it is an optional class and i made the choice to allow it, so part of the blame is on me for that, but still.

I like Stars Without Number. I prefer Traveller, but it's still a decent system. That said, the whole "base attack stacking with skills stacking with ability bonuses (albeit just +1 or +2 for the latter)" just rubs me the wrong way for some reason.

I think Ashes Without Number would be good for a dramatic post apoc game or zombie survival game. Although I am working on my own zombie apocalypse RPG, with random character generation (so you can't just have everyone choosing to play an ex-cop or ex-military) and gritty rules for stuff like morale (so you have to keep people happy in your base or they'll start getting despondent and killign themselves).

Also you have to make basically a Will save to kill zombies the first few times, because actually battering what the average person would still see as a human subconsciously is really difficult.

>>97457598
If you didn't have that reaction immediately you won't get it

File: 805d609c3ed6d41c10557d8c71b35f47.jpg (495.4 KB)

495.4 KB JPG

>>97452608
I like how the skill system works in those. I'm not a fan of roll under attribute score, and I am a fan of rolling 2d6 for skills
The classes, and feats are so boring and uninspiring
The tables are fantastic
There are next to no fluff, and not a fan of any of his custom races/not-orcs etc
Was unimpressed with the bestiary

>>97459039
>Also you have to make basically a Will save to kill zombies the first few times, because actually battering what the average person would still see as a human subconsciously is really difficult.
Pretty sure AWN has a mechanic like that called stress IIRC.

>>97462293
I'll have to check it out. I really like games with morale mechanics more and more because it makes including little flavorful "treasure" like rare wine or something like that actually have mechanical benefit, instead of just being something PCs sell to the highest bidder to upgrade their machine guns and +8 longswords while living like monks.

>>97452608
Cities is great, actually.
It's d20, yeah, but it's really not 'just' B/X, it's classless and feels very much like a shadowrun d20 hack. It has the best Drone and Hacking rules out of any cyberpunk game I've played.

>>97462311
Cities is d20? Weird. I though all the [Things] Without number were based on 2d6+Skill rolls.

>>97452608
This is Traveller not B/X. This is creator's basically made Stars without Number to be his Traveller with Blackjack and Hookers. The others are basically are basically the creator using his system to make a Fantasy/Cyberpunk/ Post-Apocalyptic TTRPG.

File: FDcrIbJWQAIU-R4.jpg (1.1 MB)

1.1 MB JPG

>>97456025
I get that to a degree. I hate the setup of magic in current D&D because of their empty one and done nature. Even when they put something for putting the spell in higher spell slots it's only bigger numbers instead of unique/additional effects.

>>97456196
That is a good rule of thumb to follow but, it would be nice if the other two classes could get ways of using them if not just assuming they all use psychic powers to a degree.

>>97456290
Which makes it difficult to homebrew powers because there is a big leap between lay on hands style healing and being able to heal yourself from death after you get splattered.

>>97466984
>That is a good rule of thumb to follow but, it would be nice if the other two classes could get ways of using them if not just assuming they all use psychic powers to a degree.

The way the rules are written different (sub)classes have different effort pools. So even if you were like, Bard/Cowboy (that dude from Home On The Range) both expert or Skinshifter/Beastmaster (3.5 druid) both mage, they still have separate effort pools.

So if you want, you can just imagine that Full Expert and Full Warrior have 3 respective effort abilities
>Masterful Expertise: commit effort for the scene - reroll any non-combat skill check as an Instant action.
>On Target: commit effort for scene, as an Instant action, the Warrior may turn a missed attack they have made into a hit.
>Veteran’s Luck: commit effort for scene, as an Instant action, the Warrior may turn a successful attack against them into a miss.
And Full Warrior and Full Expert effort pools of 1.

>>97454135
May I ask which Wargames you went to?

>>97457968
>Coming up w/ DCs and having "now add this and this and that and the other thing" is bullshit versus "roll a d20 against our attributes."
It's literally the same thing with flipped signs once you include difficulty modifiers, i.e. whether you have them roll their INT at -2 or -4.
DCs have the advantage that everyone can have the same target number, so the players only need to tell you their result.

>>97452608

cant say i like them nor anyone plays them in the store we gather

>>97462357
the system calls uses d20 for saves/attacks and 2d6 for skill checks

>>97452647
It's B/X with Traveller's skill system grafted onto it. I don't understand the appeal at all.

>>97473416
It's simple, plays fast and puts no money into the pockets of WOTC. Plus, if you're stuck for ideas for the night's adventure, just start rolling on the copious number of tables included.

>>97469284
A few different one. I've messed with Pikeman's Lament mixed with Dragon Rampant, Fantastic Battles, Horde of the Things.

is this good?

>>97480134
I'm gonna start my campaign tomorrow. If the thread's still up I'll write a session report.

File: 1590274826295.jpg (551.4 KB)

551.4 KB JPG

I really like the idea of using SWN to run the Star Fox setting in. Has anyone actually tried to use the rules for vehicles?

>>97473416
It's like D&D, but with the design flaws and awful baked-in lore removed. Plus traveller's skill system, which is great. What's not to get? Tons of people want something *like* D&D, but are frustrated with D&D for one reason or another.

>>97484405
We have. It's pretty serviceable, but it's a more startreky type of ship to ship combat.
If you've ever played FTL or Artemis, it's like that.

>>97480134
The free rules are like 75% of the game. Just try it out for yourself.

File: YrhxhF.jpg (595.2 KB)

595.2 KB JPG

What are some good adventures from other games you've used with SWN?

>>97484405
The rules do not really fit solo fighter pilot combat. Fighters have super low HP, so one good hit and any fighter dies. Could make really swingy combat as it would be decided by who gets crippled by crisises first

>>97484405
Yes and >>97489192

It definitely is not action packed dogfights.

>>97473416
And travelers setting, but with lancer-esque "True AI run on freaky quantum mechanics psychic shit and live in a box"
Plus feats and the psionics are altered to work like Words and Gifts in Godbound.

And Cities Without Numbers is just Shadowrun on the same modernized b/x +2d6 skills + Effort chassis.

Worlds... I'm not sure. It definitely feels like it's specifically something. But it's not D&D. It's some other fantasy game. One with a lot of eldritch entities that kept humans as cattle, cursed humanoids, and some kind of giant magical pact law that both creates magic in the world and creates reliable laws of nature. Oh and no mention of gods.

Ashes is the only one that's not derivative, and that's because it has three mix-and-match genres: mutated wasteland, zombies everywhere, and freshly fallen civilization. And it's one prepack setting is set in early SWN, a Wild West themed mutant wasteland of an despot-ran social experimental old terran colony post psychic scream.

>>97491233
>Worlds... I'm not sure. It definitely feels like it's specifically something. But it's not D&D. It's some other fantasy game. One with a lot of eldritch entities that kept humans as cattle, cursed humanoids, and some kind of giant magical pact law that both creates magic in the world and creates reliable laws of nature. Oh and no mention of gods.
Worlds is the dying earth subgenre of fantasy, Specifically Vance's Dying Earth stories and Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun.

>>97484405
Not related to the thread, but Edge of the Empire/Edge Star Wars games do single pilot dogfighting style spaceships pretty well.

File: UJiavpL.jpg (262.8 KB)

262.8 KB JPG

>>97489192
>>97490176
>>97490196
>>97491359

So it sounds like the flying would be no good in and of itself. That said, going around and doing stuff on the ground still works but the expectation of being a Star Fox thing would make that difficult. Shame.

I'll just have to redirect my efforts to have a sci-fi furry game that isn't Hic Svnt Draconis

>>97491379
>>97491359
I second anon's suggestion about fantasy flights starwars.

I'm this guy
>>97454394
We tried out a bunch of systems as one shots, and the other system we were considering for replacing the shitty half of lancer was FFG Star Wars.

The other benefits to FFGSW/Genesys for a starfox campaign is it has way more class granularity when it comes to non-paranormal careers, and it's dice are more narrativy, and I feel like furries are probably big into the roleplay part.
Plus there's probably already stats for a lot of Animalperson aliens tbqh.

>>97457968
Then just convert them back.
Thac0 descending is just Thac20 ascending.

Stars's skills would take a little more math because it's 2d6, but if you want a roll under you'd just make it 12-(12-skill). So instead of going from -1 to 4, it'd go from 13 to 8.
Though you'd have to keep track of how many points you put into learning psionics

>>97491563
>Plus there's probably already stats for a lot of Animalperson aliens tbqh.
Even if there aren't, it would be trivial to either just refluff or make up your own races. The nice thing about about the ffg star wars games is that the math is very transparent. You're either upgrading dice or adding dice. If I recall correctly, all the alien races are just a slightly different set of stats, except for the androids which are a build your own.

How is this btw?

>>97473416
"I like the streamlined nature of B/X but man I wish there was a good skills system attached to it."
*sound of an angelic choir as X without numbers appears*
That's it, that's the appeal. Its the same niche as GURPS lite except people actually play it.

>>97491379
Just make your own dogfight system. I'm running AWN and I whipped up a simple board game for the players to all drive their own Mad Max battle cars in grid combat.