These men are more true to OSR values and Gygaxian D&D than you'll ever be, fishfag. Go back to spamming in your fake general

>>97488131
The fuck? Fishfag?
Brother if youre talking about the OSR split, theres a reason I didn't post there. This is specifically a thread about problem veterans & not necessarily contained to 1 system.

Dumb fucking nigger

>>97488112
This isn't really an OSR problem. I've run plenty of campaigns in 5e where I've had similar problems.

>Player invests in having a large number of summons
>Hey, player, your turns take a really long time because you have to resolve each summons turns individually. I'd like to use the optional rule that uses a chart to average out damage for swarms.
>Well that defeats the purpose of me making the character this way!

>Okay, roll your critical damage
>its ___
>You spiked almost perfect double damage?
> No, I maxed one die and rolled the other normally.
>Thats not how critical damage works
>Well in my other campaign-

>Okay, I get flanking, so I have advantage
>Flanking is an optional rule
>No it isn't!
>It's literally in the optional rules section and invalidates the existence of a lot of mechanics and artificially inflates the player's damage in a system that already heavily favors players.
>But I can't crit as often as a rogue that way!

Charm is kind of a dogshit mechanic, though. I understand it's part of the game, but from the perspective of a human being told they don't get to participate in the encounter, it kind of just sucks ass. Can it be thematic? Sure. Can it increase tension? Yes. Can it be an interesting story device? Definitely. It will basically ALWAYS suck to be told you can just go do something else until the effect ends. I know we're on a gigaautist basket weaving forum arguing about imaginary scenarios and plastic minis, but just be normal for a second. If your intent is to run a campaign with your friends or whatever and have fun for 4 hours, it's going to be a tough sell to inform a player that they will not be participating for an hour because their RNG number shape didn't land on a big enough number.

>>97488112
This is a symptom of every single player of every rpg. This isn't somehow endemic to osr.
Anytime a player gets used to playing at somebody's table, and they transfer to a similar game at a different table, there will be a dysfunction between expectations and actualities.

Here's my questions in kind: do you actually play games? How often and what game?

>>97488258
Sure thing, fuckwad.
I DM nightly/every other night for a small campaign between friends, most all of it is randomly generated or just story beats from Greyhawk, sessions range from 1-3 hours on nights we can play. And if your maggot-ridden brain couldn't already comprehend from previous context clues, I play Advanced Dungeons and Dragons.

So, how about you, you fucking disabled orangutan nigger?

>>97488235
Thanks for the reply. I agree with what you said there at the end. In my defense, thats why I give every player henchmen. I expect it to be a classic, lethal game of d&d. There has never been a time where a player was completely "charmed out" of all their characters.
Its just the only problem I've yet to find a solution for, so i guess thats the main point of the thread. Sacred cows and what not that are impossible to work around.
And trust me, im not the one choosing to spawn all these fuckers. We play randomly, thats how it goes. I will admit I'm not talented enough nor have the time or care to redo entire level ranges of encounter tables.

ACKS fixes a lot of these problems

>>97488350
>>97488235
Doublepost. But this fix just came to mind. Would be kind of funny to just tell them suck it up & roll an Elven party. And honestly that would probably go over decently well with them... ill have to try this

>>97488235
You're wrong about flanking for advantage. If you leave it out positioning becomes trivial because you can be surrounded with no concequences, melee characters suffer a significant drop in DPR against ranged and caster classes, and the latter have their health pools inflated.

>>97488112
I think some of what you're describing is conflating
>old gamers
with
>osr
even if its ostensibly through experience with similar tsr era d&d. They may very well have been playing decades ago but quite likely weren't playing
>osr
sorts of games or as it tends to be used these days, here or other parts of the internet notwithstanding. A lot of gameplay pre-internet was like everything else back then, less standardized and people figuring out something that worked for them or made sense at the time. They will have played with some tie-in from wargaming, whatever boardgames were available at the time like monopoly and shit and otherwise made it up as the went along. While there were conventions and magazine publishing and errata that wasn't nearly as common as just having the base rulebook, or a scattered collection of books and winging it.
As another anon said, the problems you've encountered are more about a mentality that ends up being expressed through mechanics than the mechanics themselves.
>xp/level threasholds
this is wanting to power up faster, this isn't a boomer only problem.
>item usex this was in other game
also not a boomer problem, more an issue with standardized items but necessarily non-standardized gms. Previous experiences inform expectations, but that can be gotten around fairly easily as far as I have encountered. Might be something to less neuroplasticity as people get older.
>game details
Seems like the above mixed with seeing it as a game mechanic setup rather than a narrative exploration or hidden information as an attempt to recreate exploration of the unknown.
>Charm
mans, mind control stuff with player characters has been a sore point for longer than either of us have been alive and continues to be up to this day.

>>97488527
The consequence is you're getting attacked 8 times instead of less.
Man, 5e is such aids

>>97488112
Being a veteran player myself, I'm in a group of similarly aged players who had all played 1st and 2nd ed AD&D in our teens. Didnt have much problem with Charm, it was like any spell that incapacitated your character if you failed a save, as well as allowing for a bit of PvP action.

Most of our problems seemed to stem from misremembered rules, gear and spell effects, or thinking that misapplied rules from games long ago were the correct way to play.

Each of us believed they knew the spells by heart, but every adventure someone would be caught out doing something not in the description, often resulting in character injury or death. (confusing Polymorph Other with Self, etc)

Illusions were a big problem - some players had always done it that it was all in the mind, while others prefered Star trek style holograms, some had the damage be permenant, others that damage was only applied as long as you believed in it, others that only as long as the caster maintained it.

Mounted combat caused problems because everyone did it differently. Some liked realistic combat, charging through rank after rank, swinging at each as your horse ran them over, while some prefered that you only get your basic number of attacks. Some prefered WHFB style, where your 2 ton mount ALWAYS stops when it makes base contact with that goblin and you then fight locked until one of you dies. Some insisted that every person you pass gets an extra free strike becaouse you are effectlively 'running away' as you gallop past. We never did agree on a satisfactory agreement, so just ruled that mounted combat would never take place (pissing off the Cavalier player).

Some of us had played later editions as well, so rules and methods crept in from them as well.

In the end we gave up on D&D and went back to playing Battletech. Unlike most games today, the Succession Wars period rules havn't changed much in 40+ years and we all know them.

>>97488386
ACKS is shit though and only faggots play it.

>>97488235
>Well that defeats the purpose of me making the character this way!
I mean, it does. Mass summoning is also the most obnoxious thing on Earth. Both are true. Ideally, changes to how a character fundamentally works get hashed out before play, but in a case like this they should be allowed to respec if they don't like the compromise. Since this is 5e Tasha's added a bunch of single summon spells that aren't ridiculously obnoxious so you could ask them to use those too.

>>97488235
>>97488112
CC like charm should always be avoided at all costs by DMs if you're going to run it as "you don't get to play your turns". If you want to have your cake and eat it too, let players control their charmed characters so they still get to play the game while also keeping the condition impactful. It's infinitely more fun to say "okay, you now have to work against the party" than it is to say "fuck off while the rest of us play for the next 20 minutes".

>>97488147
Ignore the troll, he is the cause behind 2 generals due to him trying to be an autistic retard who thinks he owns the general, and that its a private chatroom he can figuratively wank off about ACKS & 1e in.

>>97488867
Pleb

>>97488112
>problem veterans
Don't call them that. "Problem" sure, but calling them "veterans" is practically some stolen-valor level shit. It makes it sound like they have experience, when it doesn't really count as experience when you don't actually learn anything when you do it.

I think what you're dealing with is just BrOSR. Guys who demand that OSR games need to be played in some imagined purist fashion, and everyone fucking hates them.
https://www.enworld.org/threads/brosr.691184/
https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=89918&start=270
https://www.reddit.com/r/osr/comments/1go9e1h/what_the_hell_is_brosr/

>>97489089
They've been plaguing /osrg/ for some time, trying to turn it into /brosrg/ in all but name. They're a very loud yet very niche vocal minority, one of their biggest forums (Knights & knaves) doesn't even have 1500 members, and the wider TTRPG sphere doesn't even know they exist.

>>97489089
>Imagined

no. An archaeological recreation built on decades of studying Gygaxian D&D, built off forum posts, design documents, personal letters, interviews, blogs, personal testimony, and more. There's nothing imagined about it, it's backed by historical data.

>>97489159
>autism autism autism performative masculinity autism

>>97489089
>>97489119
>>97489159
You guys need to calm the fuck down. OP is clearly talking about some random old guys who played when the were kids and they're encountering other players now and have different ideas.
The /brosr/ rent free thing you're doing isn't healthy.

>>97489177
U mad.go post on a forum with less than 1200 users 25+ years old that only you and 5 people still use.

>>97488112
>having an item in the past that was not ran correctly, and now insisting it MUST be ran in the mega OP way they had it in the 80's because "thats how everybody used it back then"
This was my Critical Role DM who gave a funny look when I used a spell how it was written. "Thats not how Matt runs it. In the future we'll cap the damage to X and it stops working after one hit."

If you learn from one source no shit you run stuff weird and get all funny. But good news bud, there's an easy fix. It's called having other people in the group gm.

>>97488112
Is the OSR old enough to have "veterans"? I know it started with attempts to make material compatible with older editions of D&D, but the kind of OSR games people talk about most these days aren't really that old, and most of them have long since abandoned the idea of just reworking older D&D and have since veered into nonsensical ultra-lite games that rely on vibes, monsters reduced to as small of a stat block as possible, and the whole "rulings not rules" shtick which isn't actually found at all in the older versions of D&D, but they don't promote reading the Gygax/TSR era material either, so you're just supposed to pull knowledge of how to run the other 99% of the system from the aether instead of having someone explain how to run and play these games that claim to be old school while having less structure and guidance than the average copy-paste PBTA game.

>>97489177
I'm not talking about /brosr/ though, I'm talking about BrOSR. Way in the past, they probably would have just been called grognards or something similar, but the specific issue of the kind of completely inflexible guys who demand OSR games to be played in a mythological "proper way" has become kind of a big issue in the OSR community, partly because it's hard to find a place where these sort of pursist/traditionalist-type grognards would gravitate towards more.

Other games might have problem players who feel entitled about how the game should be played, but the BrOSR have made a pseudo-religion out of those feelings of entitlement. Even if the guys OP plays with don't identify themselves as BrOSR (most BrOSR don't and even try to avoid that label), I think it's fair to call them as such since they match the basic criteria.

The "thats how everybody used it back then" is one of the BrOSR's most common erroneous arguments in lieu of any real ones.

>>97489297
>I'm not talking about the thing I'm talking about
lol really anon? That's the plan?

>>97488235
>>Player invests in having a large number of summons
>>Hey, player, your turns take a really long time because you have to resolve each summons turns individually. I'd like to use the optional rule that uses a chart to average out damage for swarms.
>>Well that defeats the purpose of me making the character this way!
What, is the purpose of making your character that way to make the game really fucking annoying? The Mob Attacks rule means you deal the same approximate average damage.

>>97488131
>fishfag false-flagging again in hopes people will stop recognizing him and join his anti-/osrg/ crusade
kek

>>97488912
Fuck's so great about ACKS? Looks like a BECMI clone.

>>97488527
Positioning is still trivial, because opportunity attacks suck in 5e. Every PC and monster is able to run a full circle around someone without consequence.
Adding advantage for standing on the other side of someone turns combat into a conga line and removes any need to try and gain other sources of advantage by restraining enemies, knocking them prone, etc.

If you wanted positioning to matter the better method is to introduce 4e-style rules for opportunity attacks. And if you insist of flanking, have it be a bonus other than advantage.

>>97489857
Nothing, it's just that ACKS fans got themselves run off every other website on the internet by being insanely annoying, brigading, etc, so now they're all on this one.

>>97489857
ACKS is just BECMI if you took all the rules and stretched them out with pointless procedures just to waste as much time as possible. It even managed to fuck up something as basic as initiative, by making everyone roll every single round individually.

>>97489159
You say yet they sound like retarded 12 year olds who only know how to take it in the ass.

>>97488740
Based take. Would play BT with these lads but theyre just not into it. Also
>horse combat
One thing I've fully given up on balancing. If you have a fighter on a warhorse, fuck it. You're getting a trample save on enemies, hoof attacks, warrior attack routine plus any bonus attacks for level. It speeds things up and gives fighters a way to feel even more badass.

>>97488596
You're absolutely right. I certainly worded the OP wrong.

>>97488873
Anon, totally understand where youre coming from. I wish i could do that too. But that is an absolute no-no with this group. They will not respect anything like that, has to be treated as a character death because they'll literally suicide the campaign before trying to RP another alignment.

>>97489177
This guy is right. Im 30 playing Gygax DND with dudes in late 40s early 50s. Its anything but BroSR, brain rotted the lot of you. I just use OSR because its easier to get that point across compared to "Gygaxian d&d"

>>97490349
Only BrOSR faggots worship Gygax though and treat [their interpretation of] his words like biblical scripture.

>>97489297
Translation:
>I'm a big stinky faggot who wants to ruin a thing with an established community and culture by changing it to suit my whims, and those evil heckin chuddoids won't silently allow me to do it without challenge! Better invent a boogeyman to smear everyone who points out what a worthless subhuman piece of shit I am.

>>97490380
Is the brosr in the room with us rightnow anon?

>>97489297
>ompletely inflexible guys who demand OSR games to be played in a mythological "proper way" has become kind of a big issue in the OSR community
It's because so many of those people are influenced by the very confidently wrong posts of BrOSR culture war grifters who love to run their mouth about gold as XP and 1:1 time tracking and other faux "old school" gimmicks that people like because they sound like something a presumed cultured, well-read, highly informed, experienced player would care about.

It's like the "rich dark roast" phenomena, except instead of people talking about coffee in a way that they expect will make people think they are cool, it's talking about vague OSR shit in a way that's supposed to make people think they're hardcore grogs who respect Gary Gygax's stated way to run games... which you can actually read in the actual older editions of D&D, but they never do.

>>97490386
This. It's the heart of every issue in the TTRPG space. These people don't even like OSR they just want to invade traditionalist white male spaces and to subvert everything into whatever they want. It's got nothing to do with games and everything to do with "owning le heckin white Nazi chud Trump supporters". The OSR needs to be purely about Gygaxian D&D. Allowing any changes to that is a slippery slope into nothingness. If we don't define the OSR and stick to it, they'll start churning out garbage like DCC and Daggerheart and Shadowdark, claiming it's OSR as well, when these games are intrinsically anti-Gygaxian

>>97490425
>>97490428
Too similar writing style. The last bit about the intrinsic gygaxianness is overplaying the bait too much.

>>97490469
You think I typed a second post in reply to myself and posted it 25 seconds after the first one?

>>97490554
You think cell phones are mysterious technology?

>>97490554
Honestly? Yes. That kind of fits your whole... everything. It's the exact sort of shitty little trick that someone like you would try to pull.

>>97490559
>>97490581
Someone like who, exactly?

>>97490604
>doesn't even deny it
lol

>>97490876
What's to deny? The accusation is retarded and you're grasping at straws because you forgot to look at the post times.

>>97490941
Ah yes, the cellphone, truly a rare and mysterious device.

>>97490995
Your explanation requires that someone queued up two posts on two different devices, replying to different posts, waited for the mobile timer to pass and solved the captcha, and then posted them nearly back to back, so they could try to deceive you that two different people could mention gygax in an OSR thread... for what reason, exactly? In what world does it make sense to do that?

>>97491033
Same reason you're keeping up this charade. You've got brain problems.

>>97488112
>NOOOOO YOU CANT CHARM A PC THATS NOT FAIR
Well that's among the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You don't want to be charmed? Make your save VS spell like everyone else.

>>97491046
Whoever you think I am is probably laughing their ass off at you acting like such a retarded schizo.

>>97491257
NTA, but you're some sort of "gygaxian" BROSR troll. Hence, why you're acting and posting like some sort of gygaxian BROSR troll, and why people think you are one.
With that established, I'd recommend for you to not make things worse for yourself, but I've got a feeling you're going to anyway.

>>97491274
Eat shit and die, fishfag

>>97488386
spreadsheet sim

>>97488112
If your story is true, and it seems really far fetched, that's not an osr thing, that's a you play with freaks thing.
>>the most egregious by far: NOOOOO YOU CANT CHARM A PC THATS NOT FAIR
You're right, this is the most egregious libel on your list, even worse than you implying that "plays rule wrong in past, wants to play rule wrong in present" is an OSR specific trait and not a general human trait that can apply to any player of any game. Charm was something that happened. No one I've played with has complained about it whether from a spell or a vampire or a succubus. Level drains were far worse but that was the general bitching that anyone does whether long term players or new.

>>97491522
>No one I've played with has complained about it
Agreed.
What I have seen is players saying "Charm doesn't mean you control my character" which is true

>>97491541
Nice to see someone who knows the spell description. Had the same thing though in sort of the reverse, older players saying to other newer players that it wasn't mind control, it doesn't control the npc or monster. Whether as a player or DM I've seen far more charm person and charm monster spells cast on npcs and monsters by pcs than ever occurred to the pcs. Very useful spells.

When moving over to 2e as the older 1e guys moved on and took their books with them, specialist wizards were unpopular because choosing an invoker meant that you couldn't cast sleep or charm or hold, or wish in the blind hope the campaign would last long enough to reach 18th level. Transmuter wasn't much of an option as that meant no dispel magic.

>>97488714
Which is the ideal situation for a barbarian who's entire function is to absorb damage twice as efficiently as the rest of the party, and if you're a caster you still dont care because you dont need to control where you're hit from and enemies have no way to overrun you

>>97489875
>turns combat into a conga line
Only if you're retarded. If you have a brain it becomes a game of spacing and choke point control, as well as giving extra value to reach weapons that otherwise see very little play
> and removes any need to try and gain other sources of advantage by restraining enemies, knocking them prone, etc.
Those are virtually never worth doing. If you have the stats to not waste a turn grappling or tripping then your time is better spent on damage, and if you dont have the stats for damage you'll fail the trip anyway. Grapple is even worse since you need to do it twice in a row before it does anything. You know what IS worth it though? Guiding bolt, faerie fire and other top tier spells that only get better when you remove like 25% of a martial's ability to do damage. You know the dumbest part? All that extra trip shit still matters for repositioning which you have no reason to do any more, because you never need to escape a flank
>If you wanted positioning to matter the better method is to introduce 4e-style rules for opportunity attacks.
I dont know those so whatever
>And if you insist of flanking, have it be a bonus other than advantage.
There is mechanically literally no difference except that characters can now get double advantage by flanking

>>97491274
>but you're some sort of "gygaxian" BROSR troll.
It's very funny that you reached that conclusion when one posts that started this retarded back and forth is saying the BrOSR is full of shit.

>>97489089
>check the reddit thread
>it's all handwringing about probably imagined racism

>>97488147
The ACKS fanboy has decided that everyone annoyed by his shit is one person, who he calls fishfag for some reason.

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>>97488112

>>wanting too much detail without actually interacting with the environment, wanting to know immediately what level theyre up against, etc.

Always respond to a stupid question with another question. "How deep is this lake?" "Do you want to swim to the bottom and find out?"

70's/80's DnD had save-or-die traps so I suppose I can't blame grogs for being cautious, but it really slows everything down.

>NOOOOO YOU CANT CHARM A PC THATS NOT FAIR

I mean, on one hand the PC did get a saving throw and PCs can do it to monsters. On the other hand, I think people play RPGs for a sense of freedom they don't have in the real world so they're going to be miffed if they're bossed around or taken out of a big section of the adventure.

>>97493585
>for some reason.
You know the reason, faggot, your shame gets posted regularly enough

>>97493555
>imagined
The primary characteristic of a BrOSR is that they're obnoxious cunts who try to make up for their many flaws by pretending to be tough guys on the internet. That's where the "Bro" part in their name comes from, from them acting like heckin' dudebros who are totally based alpha chads, or in other words acting like perpetual fourteen-year-olds who've been bullied too much and in turn desperately want to LARP as bullies.

That's why on Twitter they act like racists/misogynists/etc., because that's how they get attention for themselves, because that's the easiest way to get it on that platform. The few on 4chan also act racist here, but that's probably just because they're just genuinely racist.

>>97493555
The funny thing is it was one play group, about a dozen guys, years ago. But now the "BrOSR" is on this dumb faggot's enemies list, and so they're everywhere apparently.

>>97493555
>it's all handwringing about probably imagined racism
Are you looking at the same thread that was posted? Because it seems that it's mostly people complaining about "purist" assholes.

There is no such thing as the BrOSR. It's a made up reddit meme. There's the OSR community, who respects and studies Gygaxian D&D, and tourists, who really only see the OSR as an art project and don't care about OSR gameplay values and actively try to change it. Sorry, reddit, but it's OLD SCHOOL for a reason, a bunch of new homebrews completely invalidates OLD SCHOOL. BrOSR is nothing more than a slur reddit hurls at true OSR fans who refuse to allow their subversions

>>97494293
>there's no such thing as BrOSR
>everybody who disagrees with me about anything is a reddit tourist
What did he mean by this?

>>97494533
Yes we are OSR fans. You are tourists who only like OSR art but want to change all the rules so it doesn't even look like Gygaxian D&D anymore, defeating the entire purpose of OSR. Hope that explaination clears things up for ya

>>97494565
Hey, if I go check the OSR category on itch.io or DTRPG or any other website, what will I find there?

>>97494293
Sure there is. It's spearheaded by fags like Jeffro Johnson who preaches all the dumb shit you can find other retards repeating as "TRVE SOVLFVL ROLEPLAYING" or whatever.

>>97494579
Wouldn't know. I don't use propaganda websites. All of my books are pirated from telegram and rutracker

>>97494605
And he's not BrOSR, he's a normal OSR fan. Unlike all the people who attack him for defending Gygaxian D&D

>>97494605
He's part of the group being complained about who is trying to claim that him and his buddies are the only true OSR, and we should all switch to using some other word for what is currently referred to as "OSR" at his request.

Do note that even if you do that, him and his ilk will still shit up your "NSR" thread with ACKS, so there's no reason whatsoever to give him what he wants.

>>97494624
>I don't use propaganda websites.
Ah, yes, the "propaganda websites" itch.io and DTRPG. Where you can buy RPG books.

The reality is, nobody uses the term "OSR" the way you want, and they will never start, so accept your title of BrOSR and pretend it makes you the TRVE PVRIST or whatever.

>>97494624
>he's a normal OSR fan.
He's the posterboy for BrOSR shit and it's laughable for you to insist otherwise. Most of the culture warring faggots are parroting him and people like him who invoke Gygax as the God of roleplaying, while mangling and misattributing Gygax, and at the same time, holding up optional rules and suggestions from various editions are sacred gospel that makes their games run perfectly (just ignore the fact that no one shows up for their games and every campaign they insisted would go on for years barely lasted a month every time they've actually talked about actually playing real games)

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>>97493585
>who he calls fishfag for some reason
>for some reason
>some
we all know it
he is a d*vil worshiping Christian-hating edgy manchild
all that talk about satanic "panic" and 2e getting rid of d*vils and d*mons, you think it's for nothing?

>>97493749
>That's where the "Bro" part in their name comes from
wtf? I though they were all just Brazilian

>>97494835
The "bro" part comes from the kind of people who bitch and whine that games are too woke because they don't have half-naked slave maidens on every page. There's also some tough guy shtick that goes with it where they feign superiority over everyone else in the wider TTRPG hobby because of some obtuse fringe ruling they use, since everyone else is weak stupid gay babies for not playing games like they do.

>>97494533
That he a dumb nogames who pokes the balls of sleeping men

>>97494646
Are Jeffro and his evil cabal in the room with you right now? Do I need to call the police?

Well boys, nice to see the thread getting thoroughly detailed but I appreciate all the earnest answers. Felt good to commiserate.

>>97491522
>>97491541
>>97491678
Like I said guys, I would love to play like
>charm doesnt mean you control my character
Unfortunately these guys i play with just don't like playing that kind of game, and theyll treat it as a death. Which just struck me as odd because they like most of the other unforgiving mechanics.
I was just looking for some kind of DM hoodoo to convince them to play along, but I dont think theres a big enough carrot to put on a stick to accomplish that task. We've been sorting through most of the bullshit with retcons and off-screen rescues & my players seem comfy now. I just hate having to do that.

>>97488350
>Sure thing, fuckwad.
Wow, you sound mad as fuck over getting called out lmao.
Crybaby bitch

>>97489297
>I'm not talking about /brosr/ though, I'm talking about BrOSR.
Fucking what? Fishfag is so stupid I swear

>>97496124
Not mad about being "called out" at all, friendo. Simply infuriated at the low effort troll copypasta that plagues this dogshit board
>WuT SyStEm??!?!?
>DoU gAeMs?? Lol lmaollolol
Its fucking faggot shit and you know it, faggot.
>VNR

>>97495936
>theyll treat it as a death
Well they should treat it as "read the effect"

It doesn't prevent you from attacking any of their allies

>>97496316
Yeah that low effort shit sucks

>>97495936
>Unfortunately these guys i play with just don't like playing that kind of game
When "that kind of game" is an old school game and they don't like playing "that kind of game" then they're not old school players are they. The solution to your problem is blindingly obvious: Don't play old school games with people who won't play old school games.

>>97488350
>I DM nightly/every other night for a small campaign between friends
Can we all agree this is a Canadian Girlfriend/My dad works at Nintendo/if you jump in the pool just right Lara Croft gets naked I totally saw it tier lie?

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>>97488235
I fucking hate 5E for ruining players with retarded assumptions about how a game """"MUST"""" be played and relying on shitty rules.
>That one player that starts every scene with saying "I roll insight" and then expects to know the full motivation and every secret of every NPC in the room
>That one time I played a game where there was no fucking "insight" rules and the group arguing that it's "unfair" that a game doesn't have a roll to instantly let them know if an NPC is lying, good, evil or cranky from stubbing their toe that morning
>Those countless times a players hold up the entire game arguing about houseruling because the game is already perfect and there should be no rules not already in the rulebook
>That one player playing a barbarian and refusing to use any of their class abilities because Critical Role taught him that being "mysterious" is equal to being a retard who lets the other players down
I hate it. And I hate I can't talk to normies about how much I hate that shitty game, so I must rely on 4chan to spew out my autistic rants.

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>>97497848
lol, I feel you, anon

>>97488235
>Charm is kind of a dogshit mechanic, though
yes just as any other long-ish disabling mechanic
though the thread is obviously about baiting those OSRists who insist online "everything must be played 1e RAW or whichever-edition-I'm-nostalgic-for because it's a perfect game and nothing should be ever changed and if you change anything you are dogshit NuSR", and then proceeding to act up when you play RAW
>>97497848
>the game is already perfect and there should be no rules not already in the rulebook
some things never change huh?

>>97488112
Well, no shit you're going to have issues, you're playing fuckin' boomer D&D with grognards. That's like going to a dying Mongolian underwater basketweaving forum and wondering why you're surrounded by chuds and autists.

>>97488235
That's not how Charm works. You continue controlling your character, just with a different mindset. Why would you make him stop participating?

>>97488873
Also, it doesn't defeat the purpose at all. Minions add bonus dice to their attacks based on group size. The larger the number, the more targets they can attack at once by splitting into smaller groups at the cost of lower attack bonus, which is equivalent to the multiple action option. A larger group is more resilient, since one minion is defeated per success. Since attack and defense rolls only take a few seconds to resolve, they don't slow the game down. And of course they can do plenty of other stuff that would be more difficult for single heroes, like simultaneously covering every escape route from a villain lair, searching a large area, maintaining a watch rotation, recovering injured bystanders, clearing debris, constructing field bases, operating large ships, etc

>>97489875
or you could just stop playing lameass grid based games like a faggot

>>97490554
Well, the first post came from your PC's fingerprint, and the second one from your phone's. Can you provide a reason we shouldn't think you're samefagging?

>>97495936
What do you mean, "they'll treat it as"? The players don't decide how the rules are adjudicated. If you say it doesn't remove their control, then it doesn't.

>>97497848
While i feel you there's no reason for not putting your feet down, especially if you're the one running games. I had roughly your same issues and it took me 1 statement each to stop bad behaviors, the insight roll one is the easiest ("no you don't *roll* anything until *I* call for it"), the barbarian one is just slightly more confrontational ("either you find a way to play your character in a way that doesn't shit on the rest of the table or you roll a new one you'll make less of a mess with") and the houseruling one is genuinely nuanced (as in, despite their flawed rationale, expecting the rulesystem to remain fixed is a fair request).

>>97488235
>>97498293
>>Don't get to participate for four hours
>long-ish disabling mechanic
Great takes from two people who are acting as if they have never read the rules. The first of you could just be ignorant but the second of you is doing a particularly good job of strawmanning by saying that players will act up if playing charm rules as written when charm is nothing like what you've said it is.

>The creature then will regard the druid who cast the spell as a trusted friend and ally to be heeded and protected. The spell does not enable the druid to control the charmed creature as if it were an automaton, but any word or action of the druid will be viewed in its most favorable way.

That's not disabling and it's not not participating.

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>>97500765
I wonder why you didn't post the entire description, hm......
If you are going to argue that's not disabling, you can go eat shit.

also I'm curious what was exactly the plan here?
were you just hoping you are the only one with a rulebook at hand?

>>97501119
>might believe the caster
Reminder that even if he believes the caster that it's the only way to save him, he's still not required to try to distract or occupy the dragon for a round or two, just that he'll believe he ought to do it if he can.

>>97501119
>Every single use case for charm is exactly like the example and the example is definitely disabling
>Also, the word MIGHT wasn't in big letters so I missed it

>>97501119
So were you going to post an example of not participating, or nah?

>>97499208
Can you provide a reason why anyone would samefag in a contradictory way to different posts within a handful of seconds of each other?

>>97501119
>You can hold off the dragon for just a round (sic) or two
>Yes, I, a 1st level illusionist, can definitely hold off an onrushing red dragon for a round or two and with my 1d4 hp and having already cast my single 1st level illusion spell, I'm definitely not just going to run away if I can't think of a plan that's not tantamount to the suicide previously explicitly forbidden in the rules

>If you are going to argue that's not disabling
What a childish thing to write.
>Waah, don't even try and disagree with me or I'll call you a poopy head.
Do you even know what an argument is?

To carry on with a 1st level llusionist vs dragon, this time with a spell available
>change self
might work to intimidate the dragon if it sees a powerful person in the way
>darkness
>wall of fog
dragon has to move tentatively as it can't see where to go
>hypnotism
suggest there was a better way to attack, that attacking later might be better, that there is a better goal than attacking

Charm is not disabling. You lack creativity and understanding of the rules.

PS: Not everyone shares your scatalogical coprophagic fetish. Do keep your magical realm out of a games forum. It's rather sick and very off topic.

>>97501534
Can you provide a reason why anyone not mentally ill would post on this dogshit ruin of a board?