Since you're stealing the mechanic from Gloomhaven, why not use the cards too? Probably easier to make/print and less hassle than tokens.

>he made the same mistake three times

>>97495377
Just use group initiative and stop faffing around.

>>97496337
Gloomhaven doesn't have bag building, modifiers aren't tied to iniative, and your iniative is a known value. Are you retarded?

>>97497872
>Gloomhaven doesn't have bag building,
Because it uses cards not tokens, which was my point. It does have deck building both long-term as character advancement, and short-term as blessings/curses.
>modifiers aren't tied to iniative,
Modifiers aren't tied to anything, they're modifiers. You can apply the draws to initiative, damage, or whatever. Or even include several factors in the same card. I don't see a problem.
>and your iniative is a known value.
So? Just assume the base value is constant, then it ceases to matter. Or does the prospect of simple addition scare you?
>Are you retarded?
Are you? You're the one who keeps spelling initiative wrong.

>>97495377
>Here is my system to make the combat go even slower
Consult Dragonbane and their card drawing. It's maybe third of complexity of your solution, and yet it takes more time to decide initiative than it takes to fucking go a full round around the table.

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>>97495377
Continuous Combat from pic related is the ultimate initiative mechanic. It's very fast to resolve, it's dynamic, it accounts for weapon type and size of the enemy, it allows to make various builds viable due to their different speed and it fully accounts for mass combat.
Which not only got burried under being part of a game barely anyone remembers, but even within HEX itself, the ruleset was published... with a fucking GM screen, rather than any of the actual expansions of the game.
It's like they really, really fucking wanted this game to fail from the get go.

>>97498224
Dragonbane works fine if you just ditch the cards and tell everyone to roll a d10 for initiative at beginning of round.

>>97498340
That's beyond point.
OP is suggesting a system that takes thrice as many steps as Dragonbane cards as a solution to both improved iniditiative and speed up the game. Neither of which is true.

>>97498270
Is that the one with "count aloud to 10, everyone makes their move when it's their target number"?
I remember it being really good for pulp games, because it was the only system that makes martial arts viable. Simply because you can hit the guy in front of you thrice before he can finally draw his gun and turn you into mince (which he will do if you won't kill him fast enough)

>>97498270
Is that GM screen in the Share Thread?

>>97498385
I think so, but can't recall from where did I pulled the PDF of mine.
It's called "Hollow Earth Expedition: Addendum", if it helps, and it is famously missing in the torrent that people are maintaining for more than a decade.
I should be able to post this thing in about 5-6 hours, when I will finish my shift and get home

>>97498379
Yeah, that's the one. I am forever consuded why they didn't make i the default part of the rules, or why the fuck the description provided in the base game is such a fucking mess.

>>97498563
My go-to theory is that they chickened out with this game. As in - they've introduced (for 2006) so many revolutionary changes in the game design, they were afraid it will be too much and it will tank the sales. So in their utmost stupidity, they dialed down on those unique things and spread them out as optional or in expansions, leading to half-hearthed and half-assed core ruleset.

>>97498559
>scribd
>document/746197467/Hollow-Earth-Expedition-Addendum
This one?

>>97498795
Yep, pages 5-7.

>>97498379
That honestly sounds pretty damn confusing and chaotic in practice, unless everyone is very well familiar with the system. I haven't actually read this though, so my opinion isn't worth shit.
I need to take a look at this one day, been hearing how it's supposedly ingenious quite a few times here already.

>>97498999
Checked

Also: >>97498795
It's pretty damn good, even if it sounds confusing upon first contact. Which might be yet another reason why they've made it an optional, rather than default mechanic.

>>97498999
Also worth to note: it's one of those things that once you get into, it's pretty much automatic, because you have everything on your sheet pre-written and pre-calculated, so all you need to remember is which number is "yours" and that's basically your cue to make your move.
You didn't? Sucks being you, autoresolved turn from those pre-written numbers.

>>97497794
>initiative
Don't you mean "iniative"?

side alternating with player choice. gg no re

>>97499047
Ah, I see, so it's a fixed number for every action rather than something akin of "I now want to declare X action which will be actually resolved Y counts from now, so everyone has to keep track of that on top of other declared actions"?

>>97495377
>Iniative is something that comes up a lot in games, so let's talk about what kind of system you want to implement
You lost your initiative roll so get back in line loser.

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>>97499108
>>97499047
Also, probably the main reason for my initial negative reaction was actually that it instantly reminded me of a genuine turbo mega autist I used to know who made an "innovative" homebrew system with combat in which every character acted basically simultaneously, but every turn of combat lasted for exactly 1 millisecond in game. So your basic actions like an attack of readying a gun would take some shit like 3254 turns to fully resolve.
I had a misfortune of playtesting this insanity and we didn't even manage to make it past the first half an hour of combat, because obviously almost every other rule (like hit or dmg resolution) was equally eldritch.
I wish I was making this shit up, but I'm not

>>97499108
... kinda?
You get your move every X, all you have to remember what is your X.
The rest is on auto-pilot.
Hence the GM's counting aloud - when your X is counted, you make your move.
And there is enough variables to spread entire party and enemies across that tenner GM is counting, making the full count useful, rather than an empty rule

Like I've said, it's pretty confusing when you see it for the first time, but then it simply clicks and you go with the flow.

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>>97499129
I actually believe you, for I'm Polish and we had pic related. Stats measured as 1/128 STR (as in: 0.0078125 STR)? Sure, why not. Another animal having 1/3 STR? Why not, too. All while your actual ranges of STR being like 10-12? Why the fuck not. Of course people are going to count their STR modifiers on a fly, why wouldn't they?
The publisher actually tried to streamline the shitpile and make at least semi-unified ruleset, so the retard who wrote it rallied the playerbase to hate on the publisher, not the moron who convoluted such clusterfuck of mechanics.
Because OBVIOUSLY you need to know the carry capacity of a single, regular ant in a fantasy TTRPG about medievalesque dungeon crawling in orc-conquered archipelago

>>97499155
Oh, I'm a Pole as well and while I've never actually read this fabled thing I surely did hear stories about it.
Maybe we just have RPG autism in our blood

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>>97499173
Nah, we had a semi-insulat hobby that got dominated by 4 (read: four) retards for almost 15 years. The wounds have healed, but the scars are forever (and Quentins are a thing to this day, like some bad hiccup from the past). There is a reason why the hobby pretty much died in 2004 and it wasn't until 08 or so when it started to re-grow, while retards still look to the past and go full retard with "yeah, let's copy the goode olde dayz games!".
Which, coincidently, means games with utterly retarded initiative rules, because hey, the "classics" had those, let's copy a system that requires a double opposed check to see the order. Per combatant. Every round.
What could possibly go wrong?
This misguided obsession with "realism" is something that always sckens me about the state of the national TTRPG scene, and it ties back to literally four guys, three of which are certified autistics. Talking about the toxic influence.

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>>97495377
Simultaneous.

Rather than a single "action", each round is measured in "exchanges" (as in "exchanging blows")

Melee fighters must pick between one of 4 approaches (Overwhelm->Press->Guarded->Maneuver) which are, in order of relative risk vs reward.
Everyone selects their approach and everyone reveals at the same time. This allows for some interesting mechanics that arise (Overwhelm vs Overwhelm, for instance, creates a risk of a simultaneous strike. Press can choose to feint, but risks losing the dice they dedicate to feinting unless the enemy chooses a Guarded approach).
Combat consists of opposed rolls between combatants and measuring who has a higher measure of success to see if shit like damage is done or other things happen (trying to disarm, trip, etc).
Opposed rolls solve the "but who actually strikes first" problem.
>But what about multiple combatants?
The defender chooses a sole approach and must split his dice pool between combatants (which often spells doom for the defendant unless they clearly outmatch their foes)
>What distance?
Distance occurs at range bands and reach bands named by the weapons (longsword reach, dagger reach, etc). Changing between melee reach is simply a matter of winning the exchange (there's a dice disadvantage to being at a reach other than your preferred reach; note- some weapons can half-sword to allow for multiple reaches). Range bands allow ranged combatants to fire while the enemy closes range (the number of times depends on the weapon being fired), their target can dodge [unlikely to succeed] or block [requires shield].

It works well.

>>97499478
>All those utterly pointless complications and extra procedures that add nothing of actual value
>It works well.
>Source: trust me, bro

>>97498270
I'm going to have to pick that up, that's awesome. Honestly can't believe that's not more common.

I read Nechronica recently, I really like their initiative system. Everyone has a number of base action points defined by their class/physical form, and every maneuver has a defined cost. Because of how character creation works in that game, every action is on your sheet, so there are no memory problems that you'd typically encounter in this kind of system.
For each round, you count down from the highest AP allowed in the system, and people can act when their current action points are equal to the count. Whatever action they take spends some action points, bringing them to a lower number, this lower number is when they'll act again, lowering the number further. They can lower the number as much as they want, so long as they only take one action per count, so you can hit a negative number.
Eventually you hit 0, and then everyone adds their base actions points to their pool and starts again. Because you're adding action points to a potentially negative pool and not simply resetting to max, characters are never constrained in their actions as you often see in this kind of system (ie. taking a 1 ap maneuver because you only had 1 ap left and might as well spend it is never a good idea)

I've been thinking recently of how I might convert it to a more normal setting.

>iniative

>>97500828
>Everyone has a number of base action points...
See, at its core, this works as a system. I suppose my only issue is why? Why not just roll and have people go when their number is called? Say what you want about casters vs martials and all that rogue shenanigan bullshit, it just seems like way too much math for the average, casual, tabletop game.

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>>97499599
Oh, the tactical postures is more to capture a little of the vor->nacht->indes feel in fencing.
You could, just as easily, boil it down to a single opposed roll. It ends up taking about the same amount of time. In playtesting most fights between equally skilled and equipped combatants last between 3-6 exchanges (average is usually 3-4) and take 1:30 to 3 minutes to resolve (I record playtests and take records of the amount of time each exchange is as well as how often a rule needs to be explained). Against mooks, fights go rather quick as abstracting to exchanges means something happens each round. If a rule requires frequent re-iteration, I make an adjustment (e.g. character sheets now have a place to write your "combat pool" of dice based on might+fighting rank+gear bonus; if you choose to use tactical postures, the few effects they provide are written on cards you select).

My system might not be for everyone. However, I think simultaneous resolution is dramatically underrated.

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>>97501350
>simultaneous

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>>97501661
>Both combatants declare their intention at the same time.
>Both combatants roll off at the same time.
>Effect determined by who rolls better.
Nope... looks like "simultaneous" still fits.

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>>97501702
>I am retarded
>Thus whatever I claim is true
>For I said so
Also, your resolution is still overly complicated.
Pic related had it better figured out back in 1991

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>>97501762
>No rebuttal
>Thus, "Uh... you're retarded"
I appreciate the concession.
Eye of Yrrhedes is an inspiration as is Pendragon.

>>97501281
So that fast people can take more actions, while slow people take less, while also deciding an order to actions. In Nechronica, it also gives a mechanic for people slowing down as they take damage.
I don't know what you mean by all that D&D stuff, Nechronica doesn't have casters or martials or "rogue shenanigans", and I don't see how D&D being a terrible system for casuals is related to my post.

I'm seriously confused as to how you think a system like this is too much math. It's basic addition and subtraction... there isn't any easier math. Anyone who has graduated primary school should be able to do it quickly without assistance. It's a very fast and slick system in play.

>>97501281
Fuck "average, casual" tabletop games. Average casuals make me sick. I want to play games that have something to say and something to prove. I want something bold and exciting and excellent, not another soulless D&D clone or "X, but Y" ripoff of a 40 year old game.

>>97502064
>>97502241
All I'm saying is that there's no issue with the current systems across most game rules. It seems like you're trying to invent a problem.

>>97502252
This is a current system used in a set of game rules. Which "current systems across most game rules" do you prefer to it?
>player choice initiative (Demon Lord Engine, Lancer, etc)
>static single step initiative (GURPS, Warhammer, etc)
>static multi step initiative (Shadowrun, etc)
>player choice multi step initiative (Gaslands)
>randomized single step initiative (D&D etc)
>clock initiatives (HERO, Continous Conbat mentioned earlier etc)
>LIFO style initiative (oWoD, X-Wing, etc)

There are many rulesets and doing something differently is not "inventing a problem", retard. There's no issue with riding public transport, so why would anyone ever own a car? Because a car has advantages over public transport, just as Nechronica has benefits over how D&D does things.

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>>97502322
lol you think I care enough to type all that bullshit?

>>97502336
All I'm saying is there's no issue with Nechronica's initiative system. It seems like you're trying to invent a problem.

>>97502336
You clearly don't care enough to read an RPG rulebook. Come back to /tg/ when you've played something that isn't average casual slop for average casual pigs like yourself.

>>97501281
>Urg why different rule in different game? Why not all game same rule, make thing easy

>>97502336
You googled an image of Jim Carrey to make yourself seem less butthurt. Seethe more casual.

For OSR games I use an initiative method I got from Professor DM.

Everyone declares actions. Roll d20 ror resolutions (attack rolls, skill checks, spell casting checks, whatever), highest results go first, a 23 attack result hits before a 15. If someone gets taken out before their action goes off, then it's interrupted. Very quick, dynamic, and realistic.

I combine this with Hyperborea's phased priority initiative. Missile > Melee > Movement > Magic.

So first missile attacks are resolved in descending order, then melee...

>>97501812
>Refuse to accept the rebuttal
>Claims there was none
Like I've said, you're a retard and your mechanic is five steps too complicated for no actual gain

>>97502241
>Making mechanics functional and useful?
>FUCK THAT CASUAL SHIT!
Ask me how I know you never, ever, not even once, had to run any of those "super-special", "extra-detailed" games autistic fucks make to sate their autism.

>>97503031
Incredible projection of your inferiority complex and fear of new rules. I've run GURPS and oWoD (similarly cludgy, for different reasons) and both are far more difficult to run than innovative games like Nechronica or Fireborn, while being far more popular AND more fixated on random details.

Popular does not equal easy to run, and being unique does not equal hard to run. Nechronica is not a hard game. It is very easy to understand. It is also actually fun, unlike whatever garbage McDouble slop you must run if you're afraid of addition and subtraction.

>>97503119
>I've run GURPS and oWoD
I asked you for autistic games made by autistic fucks for their own amusement, not one of the mainstays of the fucking hobby, you clueless faggot.
>rest of the post
Yeah, keep rambling about stuff nobody asked for, but you decided to switch the subject to cover the obvious fact:
Making rules purposefully retarded doesn't make better games. It makes retarded rules

>>97503160
Why do you make purposefully retarded posts? Genuine question. What do you get out of it?

>>97503119
Nta, but nigger, compare >>97502241 with your own reply and then ask yourself again why people might think you are retarded

>>97502713
I meant melee > missile > magic > movement

>>97498340
Having cards makes easier to: switch initiative with another creature and know who already completed its turn. But if you're not playing with Dragonbane rules, sure, tho its no different thn normally rolling a d20 every turn.

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>>97503029
NTA but his system is literally 2-3 steps. You should need to pass an IQ test to post here.

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>>97495377
I just stole part of the popcorn initiative Lancer has and made it so that players roll to see which order they go in, and then one mook reacts after every player turn until there are no mooks left to do that. Bosses and allied NPCs roll init as usual.

So you get turns that look like this:
>Players 1-5, Mooks 1-5
>Player 3 goes
>Mook 2 goes
>Player 2 goes
>Mook 4 goes
>Player 5 goes
>Mook 1 goes
etc etc. Numbers out of order here because I'm presuming a mixed order because of init.

>>97503400
Where's the contradiction? I hate casuals, and the games I run are actually easier to run then theirs.

>>97503807
Different anon, but I spend 3 days running Dragonbane as part of a promotional event during a con last year. The card system is flat-out annoying and all it achieves is slowing things down. And pretty much every group I "served" ( 3 on Friday, 8 on Saturday and 6 on Sunday) had the exact same complain about it

>>97503934
>You should need to pass an IQ test to post here.
Yeah, this way retards like OP wouldn't get away with shit like "iniative".

>>97495377
My homebrew uses Action Points for PCs to determine their Actions each turn, or spent during an enemy turn to perform Reactions. Enemies have their own AP to use equal to the number of PCs, and PC Actions and Reactions done prior to an Enemy Turn gives the Enemies bonus AP for their turn. Enemies go after each player, and share the Enemy AP pool collectively. Only Elite/Boss enemies will have a set number of guaranteed Actions they can do during an Enemy turn. This removes the need for Initiative completely, and it makes Player and Enemy tactics more fluid, forcing them to actually plan around each turn accordingly. If Players use fewer AP on their turn, Enemies get fewer AP, but what Actions they can perform become stronger by receiving a multiplier based around how many AP the last PC to go didn't spend before the end of their Turn in Actions or Reactions.

>>97499336
>Quentins are a thing to this day
They are still doing this shit?
Fuck... I was sure that the late 10s dramas around the competition along with covid finally eded the whole thing.

>>97499478
I'm not feeling most of that stuff but being able to choose your initiative has me intrigued.

I'm stealing it.

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>>97495377
That picture unironically goes kinda hard.
>POV: you picked the wrong house

Also obligatory
>katana dog (America)
>katana dog (Japan)

>>97509563
>being able to choose your initiative has me intrigued.
Hello, DnDrone

>>97499336
>>97509355
I checked the most recent 5 winners.
They are still writing novels to be told by the table.
And people still try to participate.
And they stilll take down any actual playable scenarios and give them low scores.
What's the fucking goal of that competition in [current year], other than artificially perpetuating one of the biggest cancers of the "Polish School" of RPG?

>>97509738
Quentins are, as far as I understand them in their past-2012 form, a containment hug box. They allow all the old guard to stay contained and away from the public so they can't harm anyone. They keep all the self-appointed bigwigs contained and appeased by being in the selection committee, so they feel important and rewarded. They also filter all the potentially dangerous or harmful retards, since they are drawn to recognition via reaching the top 5/podium, and then are promptly forgotten (while they also flake from the hobby now that they are "established" and thus fulfilled their personal goal).
This became especially obvious by the late 10s, when the award became so completely forgotten in the nationwide player base and devoid of any impact on anything at all, it basically turned into a self-adoration circle for the people that were already in. Unfortunately, during covid, many people ended up without games and started to discuss online "goode olde times", which unfortunately unearthed Quentins back to public discourse, but it is already dying down.
Also, Quentins notably lack participation of people below 30, making it effectively a millennial thing. You didn't read MiM/Portal, for you were a toddler back then? Well, chances are, you wouldn't be qualified with your game for the competition anyway, for you lack the proper "background" to write novels as game scenarios or consider them the "higher level of gaming".

>>97495377
Initiative goes to whowever can shout the loudest.

>>97510019
Hello, Age of Sigmar designer

Giving one player more turns than another based on stupid stats like "speed" or "priority moves" is the epidemy of bad design. Good day.

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>>97510507