>>97496432
>Arnesonian style of gameplay
Well elaborate on what that is

>>97496432
Because marketing

OP is a troll who pretends to worship Gygax and acts like a faggot here.

He is basically the worst piece of shit imaginable, because he decided he wants to import all the braindead trolling involved with arguing about religion online, and transplant that shit into roleplaying games so he can troll on this board.

Look upon him. Despise him.

>>97496440
As the OP, that's kind of what I want to know as well.

>>97496454
Go away troll

>>97496432
OSR isn't "Gygaxian D&D" though.

>>97496459
You made the thread just to lie to this board?
>>97496464 is calling you out already.

You really are the dumbest piece of shit, and that's probably why you chose trolling as your hobby.

>>97496464
Thats a NuSR opinion but really not the point of my thread

>>97496476
I'm going to ignore your trolling now. You can continue but expect it to be a waste of time because I wont read them.Thanks for the bumps though

>>97496432
this feels like bait but i'll bite anyway
>Why did Gary's ideas survive the test of time and not Dave's?
i'm no expert on either of these guys but isn't there a lot of overlap between their ideas? aren't they both generally credited together as the fathers of the hobby? how exactly did dave's ideas "not survive" when his Blackmoor campaign is often cited as pioneering the way people play to this day?

>>97496432
Gygax's style of play was never popular, even most of his modules aren't popular outside of tomb of horrors. When was the last time someone ran Isle of the Ape?

>>97496489
>Thats a NuSR opinion but really not the point of my thread
Nope. What OSR has preached and published and what Gygax actually wrote himself are at odds with each other. NSR shit is even worse, but at least it doesn't try to ride the coattails of a dead coke addict.

>>97496432
EGG’s widow and son ran/run huge PR campaign to ensure EGG was considered some holy saint of gaming

When I see posts like this I think of Gygax's actual DMing advice which was stuff like "full-time embody The Joker. constantly lie to your players for no reason. scream belittle and bully everyone you know. youre allowed to shoot any players that piss you off with a full bore shotgun. if it even looks like anyone is having fun at any time flip the table over and set it on fire and set off the sarin gas charges". Then i laugh.

>>97496509
That's what I'd like to know. Why do we have an entire revival based on Gygax's philosophy, but no one mentions arneson. If they had the same philosophy (everything I read about the 2 indicates they didn't to me), why doesn't the OSR reference them interchangeably?

>>97496552
>scream belittle and bully everyone you know. youre allowed to shoot any players that piss you off with a full bore shotgun. if it even looks like anyone is having fun at any time flip the table over and set it on fire and set off the sarin gas charges"
dafuq are you talking about?

>>97496559
>but no one mentions arneson
i dunno man most of the OSR guys i watch on youtube or see on here mention both. i don't know if they had the same philosophy exactly, like i said i'm not an expert on either of them, but i've never met an OSR guy who didn't respect both of them. this feels like you're making something up in your head and projecting it on to people.

>>97496559
People don't mention Arneson because he wasn't the one writing the rules. While he and the original Braunstein players came up with the concept of RPGs, Gygax was the one to write them down and start selling them. He's very important but in the end he didn't write the rules 99.9% of people played. And if you actually read through Gygax's play examples which include shit like pouring out a bag of objects in real life when players need a magic item you'll see that his play style really isn't that popular. The OSR style isn't about Gygax, it's about all the old TSR guys

>>97496510
>even most of his modules aren't popular outside of tomb of horrors

i see a lot of OSR guys constantly glazing Village of Hommlet and Keep on the Borderlands, though to be fair i'm not sure if that's a more recent development because of nostalgia or something.

>>97496572
have you actually seen what his advice was like? it was unironically the shit you'd see some redditor post online about how they totally owned their "problem players" with. shit like invisible magic ghosts that steal player levels that they can't do anything about. punishing the entire party and blaming a player they don't like for it to try and engineer social pressure. lightning fucking striking them from the heavens because the player displeased him. just the most childish and retarded adversarial shit you can imagine, that was Gygax.

>>97496459
>we should play Arnesonian
Well what would that be?
>I dunno, you tell me

Fucker you brought it up

>>97496598
Got any examples?
Like, actually examples not hearsay?

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>>97496616

>>97496596
>Keep on the Borderlands
Is and always will so is Temple of Elemental Evil, I guess I was forgetting some of his better loved ones. His low level adventures are great, but Dungeonland and stuff like Isle of the Ape are INSANE even for high level. Very lethal I don't know how anyone survived those adventures. Which is why I say his play style which was lethal and high level was never popular

>>97496613
I didn't say we should play it, I wonder why discussion of it is non-existent. Hope that clears things up for ya

>>97496620
That just sounds like "How to deal with a problem player that refuses to change"

Not "LOL dick your players over"

>>97496625
No it doesn't
I still don't know what you are asking to discuss

>Why don't we discuss the inflating earth theory?
>What's the inflating earth theory say?
>I dunno, you tell me.

Literally the same conversation

>>97496633
These are literally atrocious ways to deal with that player. Talk to them like an adult instead of being a passive aggressive little baby trying to do first semester psychology tricks.

>>97496432
>Arnesonian
To bite on the bait, Arnesonian style gameplay basically IS just normal DnD roleplaying games.

Gygaxian DnD is notable, because he was a prominent figure in the early ttrpg celeb scene, and because his stuff was more notable. Dungeon crawls in tight zones with lots of monsters and traps crammed in (with little consideration as to why dungeons occur), tabletop 'side scrollers', more game than roleplay etc.

Arnesonian DnD is functionally what everyone plays. Less dungeons, more open world. Less traps and hazards to put your game character's HP low, and more random encounters that might leave your roleplay character injured, potentially requiring a change of plans.
It's not notable, because it's fairly ubiquitous as the more preferred style of game.

Everyone loves to glaze Gygax, who definitely had good qualities in with all the bad. But Arneson utterly outclassed him in his vision for DnD.

>>97496641
gotta remember that Gygax intended playstyle was also closer to WestMarches. Constantly alternating players and groups.

>>97496572
Gygax, despite being seen as a patron saint of ttrpg's, was full of some remarkably shit takes.

He used to post responses to questions from DM's and players about the best ways to play the game, or clarify on rules and contexts.
I don't have his posts saved, but a lot of them ranged from 'only fitting for a specific type of antagonistic table' and 'this is downright awful' takes.

>One of your players is being a bit more noisy than you'd like sometimes? You deal with this by not responding to anything he does, and make sure the other players don't laugh at his jokes or engage with him. You can do this by threatening or rewarding their characters, or talking to other players alone so they learn to share your views on the noisy one.
>Rocks fall is a perfectly reasonable thing to do if the table is being too much of a pain.
>You shouldn't let a woman sit at the table. Their simple female brains just aren't suited to the kind of mathematics and stresses of DnD, and they're likely to get confused or uncomfortable. Kinder to refuse them.
>You're not there to hold their hand. A DM should be antagonistic to their table, challenging the party to their limits. If it's a TPK it's their fault for not being good enough.
>Reward players doing the stuff you like, with more spotlight and favourable outcomes. Similarly, if there's a player you don't like for a reason, brush over them or let their character get caught in more traps lol.


He wasn't as dreadful as Gygax slanderers say, but he was a FAR way from "The God-Creator of ttrpg's" as he's often depicted in the hobby scene. And that's not considering how much of a piece of work he was to his wife and daughter.

>>97496692
Yeah, probably because if he stuck too long with any particular group they'd get sick of him.

Either way, if a player is a problem, talk to them or expel them. Trying to punish their character ingame for it, especially with absurd ways like invisible mummies, lightning strikes or random stat penalities makes you look like a huge baby and completely demolishes any credibility you have. It is objectively terrible advice, no matter how short your campaign is.

My favorite OG creator? Jaquays.

>>97496596
Less nostalgia, more lack of any critical analysis. Gygax's modules are absolutely terrible.

>>97496596
I see Keep on the Borderlands talked up a lot, but there were tons of adventures from that era that do not get talked about. Funny enough, but shit like Barrier Peaks having a crashed alien ship or Castle Greyhawk having a movie director wizard with movie monsters or the wizard with a six shooter who teleports to our world and other silly shit published by TSR are all ignored

People try and take D&D so seriously and talk about "real" play and how Gygax would have done it while ignoring all the silly bullshit that Gygax and Kaye and the rest of the TSR nerds played in their own time, and what kind of material they published during the time they still controlled the company and the D&D IP.

Yes

>>97497413
It's all revisionist nonsense. They just want to confirm their own biases. Mostly because if these biases are confirmed it reassures them that leaving the 5e/Paizosphere for their own neurotic shit was justified and the other 99.9% of people were having wrongfun all along.

>>97496432
Because Arneson while coming up with the original idea was just a bad writer, like needed a editor to make his work legible levels of bad.
Gygax while for modern players sounding very dry could actually write.
Add in that TSR was Gary's company and the Arneson was struggling to make new content for TSR, and Gary gave him to boot and become the sole face of the brand for decades while Arneson just lingered.

>>97496432
>Why did Gary's ideas survive the test of time and not Dave's?
What a stupid question. Along with putting the dungeons in dungeons and dragons Arneson is the man who put role playing in role playing games.

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>>97496432
This is low effort even for the "Gygax vs. Ameson" shitposting

>>97496620
"Don't let players make game decisions when their character is not present, and here's how to deal with those players"
How is that bad advice?

>>97499112
>How is that bad advice?
Because the way it deals with those players is retarded. Talk to them, explain the problem, or take them out of the game if they resist. Trying to punish their character is only going to put the table against you because they're seeing you act like a gigantic baby. Not to mention trying to arbitrarily punish the whole table in HOPES that they'll turn against that player, and not you, the guy who is punishing the entire table for the behaviour of one guy.

>>97496459
>As the OP, that's kind of what I want to know as well.
You made a claim that his ideas did not survive, but you don't even know what his ideas were?
Fucking retard.

>>97496633
holy shit autistic people are so fucking annoying. instead of talking like grown ups if someone is annoying you, you pussyfoot around because you have autism and can't act like a normal person and just make everyone's experience worse because of it. God damn I hate autists

>>97499148
You really need to comprehend that Gygax's table was very different than modern fixed DM+4/5 player tables. Not everyone showed up for every season. Some days he'd be running solo for his sons, Other days he'd be running for a group of a dozen and he also had players that were regulars. The regular players learned what the table norm was and who the disrupters were. >>97496620 is about what he did when one of his sons or other regulars brought a new friend to play and Gygax considered that new player acceptable. The idea was to make the source of the issue obvious and then let the players handle it among themselves.

Didn't Arneson invent the Monk essentially fucking up the homogeny of the base classes for the rest of eternity?

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>>97496454

>>97496432
>Why isnt there an Arnesonian style of gameplay?
BroSR?

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>>97496432

Gygax lost control of TSR and the way most people played 4 decades ago.