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Thinking about moving to Myanmar. Burnt out in Thailand with drinking and shitty relationships. Apartments in Yangon seem really expensive but maybe Mandalay or Naypyidaw would be an option.
Anyone been there? How's the dating (for serious relationship)? Anyone worked there? I'm a teacher (proper) I bet they're struggling like fuck to fill positions
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myanmar is in the middle of a serious civil war / insurrection, and has a very weak+corrupt government
its not peaceful, the internet is heavily controlled, amenities are fucked up, and opportunities are scarce
IDK where you got the impression that it's a viable location to expat in at the moment, but you need to go (try) and visit and see the conditions yourself, before you sign up for some long term commitment
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>>2846994
>myanmar is in the middle of a serious civil war / insurrection, and has a very weak+corrupt government
>its not peaceful, the internet is heavily controlled, amenities are fucked up, and opportunities are scarce
I've worked in Iraq before during a dangerous period. I'm ok with the conflict, it's actually a bonus to me. Not in a morbid way, just the pulse and the history being made. Idk.
>IDK where you got the impression that it's a viable location to expat in at the moment, but you need to go (try) and visit and see the conditions yourself, before you sign up for some long term commitment
No language school jobs but jobs for licensed teachers at int schools still being posted
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>>2846996
>No language school jobs but jobs for licensed teachers at int schools still being posted
Ah. Actually, the posts are outdated. It's worth a look. I have some time. Will report in. Just wondering what it's like to date there
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>>2847011
>You will be out of there quick.
I respect what you're saying. However, I spent 2 years in Iraq, as I said. Halfway through, ISIS mounted their ground invasion. I didn't leave. Not gonna get scared off by this weak ass shit. There are no groups that want to burn me alive in a cage or behead me in Myanmar. I'm sure it was pretty sketchy for you though.
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>>2847014
>I WAS IN IRAQ YA KNOW
cool, great, awesome anon. Myanmar doesn't have a US+allies occupation currently where people second guess if the white foreign guy getting hurt will cause the entire neighborhood have door to door shake downs. Pretty sure the boarder of Myanmar has restrictions on entering where if you aren't required to come in you aren't getting in.
>inb4 this is a cult of passion schizo thread
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>>2847019
>Myanmar doesn't have a US+allies occupation currently where people second guess if the white foreign guy getting hurt will cause the entire neighborhood have door to door shake downs.
Dafuq has that got to do with anything.
Anyway, if anyone knows about the dating situation there, I'm interested. Let's just establish it's a very scary place and I should be very scared. Ok.
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>>2847019
I was there in 2022.
It was sketchy as hell. A guy got whacked right outside my hotel. The only thing scarier than the fascist government are the terroristic separatist groups and the cartels.
He is totally clueless and he's making the fatal mistake of assuming one developing country is like another.
Just let him go, anon. I'm interested to see what happens to him. I'm sure we'll end up reading about him in the news as the next Otto Warmbier, held ransom by some rebel group way out in the bush. xD
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>>2847421
>The only thing scarier than the fascist government are the terroristic separatist groups and the cartels.
Omg, what a fucking clueless npc girl. The separatists are tacitly supported by the West, they are not going to target a Westerner. They want more aid and they want arms. Cartels have absolutely zero interest in a foreign teacher.
>I'm sure we'll end up reading about him in the news as the next Otto Warmbier
Telling your example of a foreign victim is from DPRK because you couldn't think of a single one from Myanmar. You're letting your estrogen run wild. Go ask your bf for a shoulder rub and a puff on his vape or something
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>>2847428
>you will be fine. there is no fighting in yangon. just bring plenty of money and have a blast
TY anon. I actually prefer Mandalay. Was there quite a few years back. Yangon was kinda ugly and shit but I'm sure it's changed since
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>>2847441
The only countries you have to worry about are the ones where the government has an outright hostile relationship with the US and can use you as a bargaining chip. That means countries like Iran, North Korea and Venezuela. If you go there, no matter how safe it is on the streets, you are running a real risk.
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Only been to Vietnam in SEA, how does Thailand/Myanmar/Laos/Cambodia compete against each other in regards to poverty/pollution/crime/violence etc etc.
From the statements in this thread Myanmar easily sounds like the worst of the lot?
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>>2847538
Thailand is the most developed, and is 1st world in many parts. Bangkok is pretty rich and medium sized cities are comfy, clean, and safe.
Its popular with tourists for a reason. Thai are very laid back, violent crime isn't really a thing unless you start shit/go looking for it.
Cambodia is several steps below Thailand, and is definitely a stagnant "developing" country, Phnom Penh only has a couple nice districts and the rest of the city is an ancient decaying dump. They have a weak/weird government and transact in USD (???) along with their local currency. USD is preferred because riels are essentially worthless. It is quite lawless, and outside siem reap and the secure zones in phnom penh you are on your own. Kampot is cozy and nice ish though, if you don't mind being surrounded by french pedophiles with 13 year old "maids".
Violence is commonplace. You can and will be mugged and robbed if you go outside at 3am even in 'tourist districts' in phnom penh. Nobody will care. Violence among khmer is common as well, they are always kicking the shit out of each other over anything.
Laos is stuck in the past. Ostensibly 'communist' and definitely act like it in the policing department. It's not built up at all, but vientiane is modernizing quickly. It's probably the closest thing to authentic 'old school' SEA adventure/weirdness that you can get. I enjoyed it, its very slow paced. You need to take care of your own business though, nothing there is regulated and nobody cares if you get hurt.
That being said, I encountered no violent crime/saw nobody being violent in this country.
Myanmar is a wreck. So you understand, people from Myanmar illegally immigrate to BANGLADESH to work, or illegally immigrate to Thailand to work in slave conditions on shrimp farms, because its better than Myanmar. It's in a state of serious unrest and people are desperate/don't want to be there, even moreso than lao/cambodia.
TH>>>CB=LA>MY
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>>2847538
>Myanmar easily sounds like the worst of the lot?
Laos is by far the worst country in the region. They have killed more tourists from methanol poisoning and killer wasps than Myanmar and Cambodia combined. Do not go there if you value your life.
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>>2847019
You have to fly into the country if you are a foreigner.
>>2847125
More likely frustrated than scared if you try to venture into the insecure parts of the country. The militias are likely to deny you entry altogether when you encounter their checkpoints, and an approval from one militia (perhaps purchased with a little bribe to the commander) means nothing when you encounter some other armed force. Add to that the fact that nobody speaks or understands English, and you might find yourself a prisoner before you know it.
>>2847441
Myanmar doesn't receive any Western aid. They aren't going to give you special treatment for being white, but at least it's unlikely that you'll be beaten or tortured as a foreigner.
>>2847445
Outdated statistics. You won't find up-to-date stats on anything in Myanmar, because they do not have a functioning government.
>>2847950
MY = Malaysia
MM = Myanmar
I agree, Khmer are the most feral of Southeast Asians. Laotians are so much more peaceful and gentle.
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There's no reason to go to Myanmar right now unless you are going to risk your life flying into a Junta controlled city and crossing the front lines then crossing back.
Any tourism in the """"""Safe"""""""" parts is supporting a genocidal regime perpetrating mass rape and mass murder.
Go read about the Civil War, read the wikipedia page if you haven't. Then tell yourself you want to give money to that regime.
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>>2848607
Yes they are. Laos and Vietnam are by no means champions of human rights but the Burmese junta is orders of magnitude worse. And if you are going there post 2021 you might as well just send money to your local child killer/rapist.
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>>2847950
Thailand is great all-around. Easy to get around and any activity or vibe you want, they have. Lived there for many years.
Laos is nice and cheap, but generally speaking very slow. Don't go expecting a lot of partying or adventure. Rapidly being overtaken by China, if you care about that.
Cambodia is cool. PP is honestly a pretty boring city, but pretty in parts. Siem Reap is nice, beyond just Angkor Wat. It's a small town, but it's chill. I lived there for about a year. Southern Cambo is bought up by the Chinese, and the rural east/SE is cool, but you're really off on your own and communications will be difficult.
Vietnam is alright. Depends on what you want. It's not my favorite for anything at all (food/party/nature/girls/activites/beaches), but I have friends that like it.
Indonesia is basically Bali and then everything else. Bali is nice but overpriced and there are more whites than natives. It's crazy that Jakarta is the biggest city in SEA but no tourist ever goes there. Muslim.
Malaysia is nice. Some parts are conservative Muslim, some parts are more friendly to tourists. KL is pretty nice, but if you want to party you better be clued in, because it's not like BKK.
Singapore is Singapore. I lived there for a year, too. Some really like it, I very much dislike it. It has some nice areas, cool restuarants and bars. Very expensive. It's not the worst place in the world, but it really is only good for a 2-3 day stay imo. Live there any longer and you'll want to tear your hair out.
No one goes to Myanmar because it's an active war zone. I've known people that lived there, and they generally speaking don't recommend it. It's also expensive for foreigners.
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>>2848734
It's not about clutching pearls, it's about why the fuck would you ever want to go to Burma when any other SEA country has more to offer and is better in every way? Beyond the war and the government, setting all that aside, what does Burma have to offer that anywhere else in SEA can't do better?
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>>2848873
Far more ethnic and cultural diversity than in Thailand or Vietnam that are largely homogenous societies at this point, its own multi-layered history that is largely independent, the Irrawaddy valley was never really invaded after the Bamars settled there and before the colonial times. And Burmese architecture that is very much different from its neigbours.
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>>2848874
I found Mae Sai to be an interesting border town, facing Tachileik in Shan state. You're not allowed to enter Myanmar overland as a non-Thai foreigner, and the Burmese day trippers in Mae Sai were socially withdrawn people who barely showed any curiosity or other emotions toward strangers. Their dress fashions were unique, tribalistic. They live a hard life and are not likely to welcome, trust or cater to the needs of some goofball foreigner who wants to go tramping around their militia-controlled state (which is an ecological disaster thanks to unregulated mining BTW).
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>>2848734
I'll tell you the truth. What you do with it is up to you. That saying about leading the horse to water but not being able to force them to drink it applies. I can tell you that smoking is bad for your health and has dangers. I can't stop you from going down to the corner store and buying a pack of Marlboros. Whatever decisions you make in life I hope you at least think them through. I wouldn't tell you about the risks of doing something to be a buzzkill. It's because if you're here I consider you a peer and I don't want you to do something you might regret.
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I can't believe I didn't post it. I missed this opportunity.
Someone posted something like this isn't /pol/ or /int/ where you're supposed to fit in the box and confirm. You're able to be different here.
I was going to post something like
>yeah sure you can say whatever you want here and then your posts will just get deleted and you maybe get banned
And now look. I missed out on fortune-telling.
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>>2848895
I'm not trying to convince anyone to be scared, but if you're just going to Burma for a SEA tourist experience there are much better options. I myself was going to live in Burma for 6 months through a research program but that's alot different than just showing up and expecting to have a good time. If you have a very specific reason for going to Myanmar that will give you specific parameters to expect, then that's one thing. If you're just going there out of random curiosity or because you think the drinks are cheaper or something, you're just going to hit a brick wall of inconveniences and bullshit caused by the unrest. Even if you're the big tough badass who will go in there like clint eastwood and blast anyone who tries to fuck with you, the negative side of having a nonfunctioning government has more to do with the beaurocratic side of things. Random fees, random liscences, random road blocks, random curfews, random prohibitions, etc. will ruin your trip.
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>>2847530
Typical American, assuming that you have rights in these dictatorial countries and that somehow your government is going to protect you from bad actors abroad.
Many people from first world countries get violently dispossessed of this notion when they travel abroad, and I think that's probably going to happen to you, too.
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>>2849133
Well I'd argue that a rational person could walk into that kind of situation and not act like a retard. I don't trust the kind of person who romanticizes it. Like for example China. There are plenty of expats in China. They know how to behave and what is expected of them. I have negative opinions about China and the authority figures there, the government, the CCP, everything. But if I found myself in China tomorrow I would shut the fuck up about it even if I didn't like what was happening. Someone who rants about the evil decadent west and thinks moving to such a place is going to introduce them to a way of life that's much better might have their illusions shattered Paris Syndrome style. I don't think you're big and bad and tough for going to an authoritarian shithole. I think you're stupid if you're getting mad at anybody who discusses the potential consequences with you.
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10% life plan to volunteer for Burmese military junta's english speaking PR team. they do a lot of good work.
and maybe could help some Burmese christians from getting bambozzled by CIA agitators in fools quest for political freedom, and help them incorporate peaceably with their militart powers that are engaged in the yeoman's task of BTFO tyrannid muslim hordes.
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>>2848938
I never assume that anybody is going to have my back in a pinch.
>>2849133
Burmese don't seem to be the kind of people who would rob a foreigner for the money in his wallet. All the rest, well, it's just a matter of being patient and calmly waiting out any inconvenience or hassle that arises. As long as my money is safe, I'm cool with whatever. Got all the time in the world. And I kinda dig the whole traditional Asia vibe. The women in their tribal dresses, the dusty roads, the temples, the inscrutable looks from passersby who haven't seen a foreigner in years and don't know how to react. Strip the travel life down to its bare basics, to the point where you're grateful just to have some food in your belly. Doesn't matter what it is...as long as its hot and filling, it makes you feel happy. Sleep wherever you find a bed. Go where you can go, when you can go there. Don't force your will on anyone or anything.
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there's a long report about travelling in different parts of Burma that gets you some impression (although the author seems to be Asian)
I myself loved the country ~30 years ago, Shwedagon is utterly magic, and we attended a big celebration of spirits in Taungbyon north of Mandalay, dancing with families after ritually getting drunk on Mekhong-RedBull. After finding out we had seen mostly the usual places (+Bagan and Inle Lake) we spent the last day getting on a random boat from Rangoon to the delta where there were only natives, getting off just somewhere after two hours and landed in a village where there was a funeral going on, everybody was smiling at us and communication was no problem.
https://theconversation.com/huge-online-scam-operations-are-flourishin g-in-war-torn-myanmar-i-travelled-t here-to-find-out-why-271701
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>>2853258
>>2853259
These scam centres are so bad that billions of dollars was getting scammed out of China every year for the last few years.
They demanded the Burmese government stop it and were ignored.
The Chinese sent half a dozen of their top investigators/detectives to a northern state to find out what’s going on.
These Chinese police were assassinated with days of landing.
Furious, the CCP sent 3 teams of special forces into the province and executed the heads of the scam centres and took full control of the state within weeks.
They then said to the rivals in the province of the Burmese government, we will arm and fund you if you ever go to war with the Burmese national government (who are involved with the scam centres and yaba production)
>>2846984
I went to Myanmar when it first opened up. It’s a legit shithole. The roads were still being made by villagers in chains- not that you could ever see that as BAGON was the only place you could go outside the capital.
Everyone there has the worst teeth I’ve ever seen in any nation and there’s really deep fear of secret police.
From what I know things got substantially more violent since I was there.
You only need to read about NE WIN the old leader who is Turkmenistan level batshit crazy.
It’s the only country in the entirety of Asia that beat Cambodia for corruption. There is no sex industry like Thailand anyone saying there is, is at best a liar at worst a pedophile.
This country is the type of place now, where if things kicked off you will be neck deep in shit. And for all the military training blah blah people have, unless you speak Burmese fluently, or a local dialect like Shin in a province you’ll be so fucked it isn’t funny.
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>>2855809
By BAGON, do you mean Bagan?
Ever since the Fall of Civ episode, I've really wanted to go.
Have you been? Or know if it's worth going to?
I was out in Ukraine during the early days of war, and loved the thrill of it. Ticking off a second war-torn country in a light larpy way is something I'd like to once do.
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>>2855809
>This country is the type of place now, where if things kicked off you will be neck deep in shit
Oh yeah sure
>Let's get the ESL teachers!
You're not a rational person. I rely on millions of people like you being scared of the places I enjoy.
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>>2855812
Bagan (phone poster fag spellcheck) is awesome. When I was there you’d get a bike for the day with not much kyat and cycle between temples. I think they moved into minibus shuttles later.
I lived in Cambodia at the time and Bagan in my opinion shat all over Angkor.
>>2855821
You’re welcome to go be a guest of the Burmese government, I don’t give a lick of shit regarding your future. you only have to be over a certain age to see how quickly embassies GTFO of places like Iran, Cambodia and STH Vietnam when things went south.
But go for it, I’m sure the Burmese military Police will be most amused by your bravado.
>>2855825
Don’t exchange all your dollars at the airport, they scalp tourists. Get your kyat outside from street vendors it’s a jaw dropping price difference.
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>>2855826
>You’re welcome to go be a guest of the Burmese government, I don’t give a lick of shit regarding your future. you only have to be over a certain age to see how quickly embassies GTFO of places like Iran, Cambodia and STH Vietnam when things went south.
>But go for it, I’m sure the Burmese military Police will be most amused by your bravado
I was 2 years in Iraq, halfway through ISIS invaded. I didn't leave. Do you know how much high-estrogen screeching I heard just like yours? I was on the ground, I understood the nuances regarding security.
Things can certainly escalate in Myanmar. At the moment there are ~75,000 expats in Myanmar so your trembling hysteria just feels very gay. Things can change, but I have a higher risk appetite than you. I understand potential danger, it's not like you're explaining something new, I just shrug it off. It's the estrogen-testosterone difference between us.
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>>2855828
Man, just book your ticket to Myanmar instead of yapping endlessly about how badass you are, people told you everything you need to know, now do it and go there. Oh and be aware that if you have a Visa bank card, it won't work there.
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>>2855828
> Assuming that just because it worked once, it will work again.
> Assuming that just because you survived, your actions were prudent.
> Assuming that you survived because of your actions, and not just dumb luck.
> What is the "Gambler's Fallacy?"
> What is the "Dunning Kruger Effect?"
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Nobody said you couldn't go. Just that it would probably be shitty and not comfy due to the situation. You were encouraged to go look and see for yourself before committing to a long stay or big trip.
Additionally, you were reminded that seeking a romantic getaway/relationship in a country undergoing civil strife like this, as a foreigner, was a complicated and immoral endeavor that would certainly have mixed results. This was not contentious either.
None of this was contenteous enough to warrant your melty. In conclusion: calm down sperg, stop crying.
Talk about how you plan to mitigate the situation instead of claiming (wrongly) that it is impossible for you to be affected or inconvenienced by it. Nobody cares that you "survived" Iraq as an ngo/contractor scumbag. It was obviously a different situation for multiple reasons.
Go now. Find out. Leave an honest report. Stop bitching.
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Going to a country in the middle of a civil war and courting a woman with an uncertain future who cannot leave when she wants, while you have comparatively infinite resources and freedom, is very immoral.
Does that mean you can't do it? Certainly not. It just means that it is not a moral action, and that you know better (you do).
It's akin to going to a war refugee camp and looking for a 'girlfriend'. Possible to find to be sure, but will she really be your girlfriend? OR looking for a way out and your resources?
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>>2856959
you're so fucking gay.
I hate people like this who are always talking about morality in dating when it's about a relationship between a Western man and a SEA woman or something. Bitch, no one forced them to date the white man, they are free to do what they want. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't be doing it. Why are you demonizing the men in this situation? It is very disrespectful to the women actually, you're treating them as if they have the intelligence of children. This is another one of those liberal fights, trying to stand up for "the weak and vulnerable" that is actually just rooted in covert racism.
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>>2856980
No, they are not free to do what they want.
The wealth and power gap cause an inherently exploitative situation where a woman is forced to choose between her honest desires, and the availability of resources she or her family needs.
It can almost never be a 'serious' or healthy relationship, when a foreigner who can disappear like a thief in the night shows up and invades her life with promises he doesn't need to or intend to keep.
With an unstable situation and extremely weak passport, a myanmar national is even more at the mercy of the situation unless she is from a rich family (unlikely). A foreigner making himself available to her is an inherently coercive situation. An extremely rare chance she may never get again.
The man is being 'demonized' as you say, because he is making the deliberate choice to put a woman in the situation where she has to choose between her dignity and access to enhanced resources.
Women are mentally children, which is another reason why the man shares the full brunt of the blame for the situation he seeks to create.
Two unequal people from vastly different social strata can never have an honest and serious relationship. It is impossible. The woman with nothing will always be beholden and become fully dependent on him. This is why it is immoral.
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>>2856983
Next up, you'll argue how a woman choosing prostitution, earning 3x the average wage, is the real victim compared to the woman who went to college and got into an office job.
Again, no one is forcing them retard. 99% of the population can go by without dating foreigners, so don't pity them when they do
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Watch "The year of living dangerously" or "the quiet american".
Being a white man in an unstable SEA country seems kino as fuck, but unfortunately, I don't think I have enough charisma to make the right connections with the locals in case I need their help when shit hits the fan and I need to scram.
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Please stop bumping this thread to talk about morality, and read some Stirner, Nietzsche or Yang Zhu instead. Take a look at /thg/ and realize talking about morality on a board infested with sexpats since COVID is a fool's errand.
What you need to do instead is shame OP for still not being in Myanmar and not doing a trip report right now.
There used to be a Frenchman here who crossed Africa from north to south on a motorbike. When people told him "don't go to CAR", he said "fuck it" and did it anyway. We aren't sure of what happened to him after that, but he certainly earned his legend status.
I personally find the idea of going to a country in the middle of a civil war to find a serious relationship ludicrous. But who am I to judge? I'm a low-T beta male spending my vacation in a perfectly safe Asian country, while OP is a high-T alpha badass who already survived war in extreme conditions, so let him be.
I made a mistake that cost me €300 today, I'm mad at myself, but it's okay, that's how we learn, it's part of travelling, and I will make sure I will never make this mistake again. If OP is confident enough to knowingly go into a situation that might be a dangerous mistake all along, let him do it, he will either grow stronger as a person or die, that's not my problem.
But one thing is sure: I don't want to hear any rant from an internet tough guy bragging about how he is superior to all of us pussies, while remaining safely in Thailand and not actually travelling to Myanmar., more than one month after this thread was created. I'm tired of that online macho attitude that amounts to a bunch of words and nothing else. Talk is cheap. So OP better prove to us right now he is the badass he thinks he is, or he should fucking shut the fuck up and learn a bit of humility.
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>>2857182
>OP should commit or fuck off
Fucking "commit" like it's a skydive, you total wetwipe. I'm going on my time. Flying to India tomorrow. I have a full and rewarding life. It's not a big deal to go to Myanmar. It's fucking SEA. Your cowardice makes my testicles retract. Cringe.
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"China extradites and executes 11 Burmese scam artists."
https://www.bbc.com/audio/play/p0mxyqv8
> Used AI masks and voice changers to lure foreigners to Myanmar under the guise of business or romance
> imprisoned and trafficked their victims
> ran a private militia for protection that controlled large sections of North East Myanmar
> used violence to force their victims to purchase their freedom in exchange for their life savings
Good luck in Myanmar, Anon. Pics or it didn't happen.
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>>2858650
OP is too much of a pussy to actually go there. Who would have thought a bragging American macho retard wouldn't bail out at the last minute and take the easy out sipping Cosmopolitans in a comfortable seat like a wine mom, seriously, what a fucking surprise that tough guys on 4chan are cowards, I totally didn't expect this at all, guess he needs to get some testorterone injections in New Delhi before coming back into the game.
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>>2855826
>Bagan in my opinion shat all over Angkor.
Bagan is easily one of the wonders of the ancient world, i just wish they hadn't built that hideous tower thing and made all these stupid rules nobody every cared about before.
Myanmar is a high tier destination, despite the lonely planet boycott, despite the war. Yangon is a tantalisingly intact colonial city, if they fixed up the old British tramway like in kolcotta it would be an amazing place. Fuck the stupid refugee camp across the river on the bog.
And myanmar is FULL of untapped tourist attractions, many i wouldn't even mention by name. Go out there and find them. Fuck the influencer crowd. Many have been there since the golden days of Thailand tourism, there are a may hom song valleys, a desert, a mini Tibet, half of yunnan and 6 beaches crammed into myanmar.