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>>217769860
Too expensive.

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>>217769912
>Too expensive

>>217770005
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_on_investment

>>217769912
The guy in the picture still works at Disney. He animated the genie in aladdin.

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>>217770052

>>217770052
Yeah, yeah ROI and money blah blah. You think they would take some risks and have balls to make something unique for the sake of art even if it would be a loss.

>>217770052
We're Back: A Dinosaur Story also had a 20 million budget, which in 2026 money is about 44 million.
Definitely not too expensive.

>>217770079
It's not 1994 anymore. And look how much Zootopia 2 made them.

>>217770121
Was it over 21x the budget?

>>217770162
Roughly 12x.

>>217769912
It's never been that it's too expensive. It's that they don't generate revenue fast enough. It takes too long to incubate, so they'd rather pump out 10 shitty movies just to keep money moving, hoping something randomly spawns into a smash hit.

>>217770178
It's expensive, slow, and risky. Maybe worst of all: It's unappealing. Capeshit looks the way it does for a reason. Blame the cattle.

>>217770178
He means you have to point to a profitable Disney 2D feature film made within the last 5 years. Oh can't find any? Well guess there's no proof that it'll work so they shouldn't try doing it and they should instead keep pumping out original 3D flops, and only turn a profit on reboots and sequels, and pretend they're in some golden age because reboots and sequels are doing well.

>>217770229
No one wants your gimmicky nostalgia shit. They stopped doing them after a wave of 2D-animations bombed. And always pointing to Beauty and the Beast for ROI is disingenuous at best.

>>217770272
*or The Lion king

>>217769912
3D slop takes roughly the same number of animator hours as 2D according to the robot, and there's probably a higher supply:demand of art graduates vs whatever type of uncreative nerds are used to produce 3D slop

It's wild to me that westoids think 2d animation is dead when it's actually thriving in Japan and Japan is making better stuff than golden age disney for weekly TV cartoons

>>217770356
It's still digital.

>>217770272
Disingenuous is pointing to two sequels doing well in a sea of breakevens and movies making back 50% of their budget.

>>217770285
Don't forget Aladdin, that made 18x along with Beauty & the Beast

>>217770178
A 2D Disney studio would be worth it for Brand-recognition and image reasons alone.
Also I really don't get why you couldn't just get a bunch of passionate nerds in a building, give them 100 million per movie and tell them to start drawing.
There is no way it wouldn't be able to operate at a net plus as long as it has written "Disney" on the poster.

>>217770384
>sea of breakevens and movies making back 50% of their budget
Nothing to do with 3D.
>>217770401
Even Will Smith's live-action Aladdin performed well. Same as the ugly Favreau Lion's King. Same as the mediocre Emma Watson Beauty and the Beast.

>>217770272
The first 3D film Disney did made way less money than their last 2D one.

Truth is we don't know how a 2d movie with big names and marketing budget attached would do in today's market.

>>217770452
Oh yeah that's fair, when Home on the Range flops it's because 2D is a dead medium that has to be replaced, but when Raya, Strange World, and Wish flop it's not the mediums fault.

>>217770374
I could pick apart your statement with 5 different points but I'm just gonna call you a retard instead
Retard

>>217770452
Those remakes are riding on the legacy and charm of 2D films though

>>217770499
A lot more 2D shit flopped. The 3D movies that are flopping are largely flopping because DEI kills their audience appeal.

>>217770542
They are riding on brand recognition and classical stories.

>>217770516
Cel animation is as dead in Japan as it is in the West. Even Redline used digital coloring/composition.

>>217770557
Oh yeah, people wanted to see a CGI interpretation of the Brother's Grimm classic "The Lion King" from 1812.

>>217770575
Yeah dude, so is using rotary phones... Anime is still really high quality 2D animation the likes of which America has never seen

>>217770608
It's Hamlet.

>>217770618
Nobody went to see the 2019 lion king film because they heard about the Shakespeare play and wanted to see a CGI reimagining. Same goes for the other two. They went because of the reputation of the 2D films, and you pretending otherwise is blatantly disingenuous.

>>217770649
>reputation of the 2D films
aka brand recognition

>>217770654
See, a reason to invest in 2D. It's good for the brand.

>>217769912
Doubt

>>217770614
>muh quality
Who gives a shit. It's art. It's supposed to communicate a message but also put you in the mind of the artist. Computer garbage fails at the latter. It's soulless.

>>217770215
> It's expensive, slow, and risky. Maybe worst of all: It's unappealing
We're just doing the: "invert reality" thing, huh?

The real reason is because spoiled nepo babies can't buy their way in when it's a skilled market that one has to be passionate about to even work in. And when you can't just replace people at the drop of a hat they get to make demands like: "not making anti-Christian, anti White, anti-Straight, anti-American propaganda."

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>>217769912
Not so. It's just not popular with the kiddies.

>>217770692
*it was

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you guys know animators don't choose what medium movies are made in right? most 3d animators are more than capable of producing 2d work but don't because it's not what their job requires them to do. 3d is in and 2d is out. independent 2d projects take too fucking long and aren't worth the hassle for most people, especially those that already animate for a living with a studio
/tv/ and /co/ both have a really autistic habit of blaming animators for the decisions of studio executives

>>217770272

Name the movies.

>>217770830
Who the fuck said it was the animators' faults that Disney doesn't do 2D anymore? And 3D and 2D animation are different skillsets even though the principles of animation still apply. You can't just plop all of your 3D animators in front of drafting tables and expect them to actually churn out the same thing at the same quality, but in 2D.

>>217770846
I'll save you the list
>4 movies from a company that wasn't Disney
>4 movies from another company that wasn't Disney
>Don Bluth after the decline
>Hybrid CGI that cost triple other Renaissance films and actually turned a profit but he's going to pretend it didn't
>Hybrid CGI that cost triple other Renaissance films
>Hybrid CGI that cost triple other Renaissance films
>Bear movie that people don't like but made 5x its budget but he's going to pretend it didn't
>Cow movie

>>217770830

Somebody posted an interview at a convention with ralph bakshi the other day with him glorifying the use of computers over traditional animation and it really shows you the mindset the people running the studios. "5 guys wit computers makin movies instedah 100 guys that can draw and paint youll make a million dollahs" and thats what they want they dont even care if it looks like shit, and if thats what everybody is doing thats all you have to pick from.
Fuck them, youll never get quality animation from people thinking like that ever again.

>>217769860
Just watch old stuff. "live action" movies are just as cheap and shitty looking as cartoons. Either way, you're not escaping the endless slop unless you stick to pre-21st century media.

>>217770706
You should check out the Frieren ending done completely on paper. Probably the only animation like that from anything ever. Anime is the absolute epitome of modern soul, utilizing the best creators in the world and the best techniques. But you don't actually like things or want to see progress, you just want to complain about something vague

>>217770830
No one here blames animators also I highly doubt
>most 3d animators are more than capable of producing 2d work
unless we're talking about overstylized slop like calarts that even a 60IQ jeet could replicate with the right software.

>>217770880
most professional 3d animators were trained for both, the leads at least. 3d movies consistently have pencil tests made by the animators that look great.
you also have to consider that it takes a lot less people to complete a 3d animation. gone are the days of entire divisions dedicated exclusively to coloring cels. a lot of talk of cost effectiveness ITT but im sure studios like disney want to employ as few people as possible and make as much money as possible, and unfortunately 3d is the answer to that conundrum

lmaooo most 3d animators can't even draw a stick figure, much less produce 2d animation.

>>217770966
You can have the raw 3D animation done by a dozen different people and the character will look exactly the same, but then there are still dozens of other elements requiring additional personnel. Lighting, texture, model, props, effects, etc all typically have separate departments. 2D animation is typically much fewer skilled individuals, which is why it takes so long (but costs less overall).

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So much of this debate is just conjecture based off the idea that 2D animation requires drawing the characters moving every frame whereas 3DCGI is rigged and animated through software. If that's all it was, 3D would be the clear winner in price, but it's ignoring the fact that 3D films need over 100x as much detail in every character, prop, and background to make them as palatable to the audience as hand drawn animation.

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>>217769860
eric goldberg was the main animator for genie

he wrote a book on how to animate

if you read it, and is an artist yourself, youll become an animator over night

his teachings in the book that good

>>217771087
is that good*

>>217771067
People on 4chan don't have a lot of nuance man

>>217771067
Not very surprising considering few people even know what goes into film making, let alone animation.