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Fish eats girl. Greatest love story ever told.

Two episodes so far, share your h/u/mble opinion about the adaptation, manga or sensitive subjects.
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Love the manga, thought the adaptation had a lot of potential but got worried when I saw the trailer. I don't think it's gonna be a Sasakoi but honestly this anime is very generic in terms of directing and overall visuals, which is way less than this manga deserves imo.

Anyway I guess I'll just have to settle for an average adaptation. Sad because this is one of my favorite yuri manga but eh what's done is done. The team seems to have passion for the series but the lack of production value quite honestly made me sad. I know its still better than most seasonals I just don't like it that much.
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>>4481744
I WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH THIS ENDING
does anyone know who was in charge of the illustration for it? literally my favorite anime artstyle atm but i can't find any credits
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I'm not into Yuri or Romance in general but the manga is incredible

Disappointed with the anime adaptation, clearly needs more of a budget and/or better staff or time. I do think the OP shows us a vision of what it could have been with more resources and I think that's great, shame it's only the OP

I will say episode 2 had less badly composed shots and much better executed surrealist water scenes/effects then episode 1 at least, hopefully the trend continues

>>4481751
Is it better then most seasonals tho? Your average seasonal shonen looks pretty dang good most of the time
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>>4481821
Don't think its fair to compare action shonen to this but yeah I'm really disappointed. I'm not really hyped for any upcoming yuri adaptations other than maybe KimiShinu, pure romance even when well-written just bores me
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I always found it odd how Hinako wears long sleeves even in the middle of summer.

How much you wanna bet she cuts herself?
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>>4481902
She has scars on her arms because of the accident, that's why wears long sleeves.
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>>4482026
ah right the "accident"
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>>4482026
Will the audience ever see those?
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>>4482091
You can catch a glimpse of the scars in episode 1, when Hinako's getting out of bed. But it's a blink-and-you-miss-it moment.
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>>4482106
Ok I found that on Ch1 p4 of the manga too, on her upper right arm.

I am just curious if the mangaka did some research or if its just an excuse to always draw her in sleeves and tights.
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>>4481780
Needs a wallpaper version.
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>>4481780
It looks close to the manga’s artstyle, so perhaps the mangaka drew the stills for the ending
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>>4482108
There's a more direct shot later in the manga too but I don't remember the exact chapter. I completely missed the early scars and only noticed when someone pointed it out to me.
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>>4481821
I'm honestly a little puzzled why they adapted this. I love the manga but it's a very slow-paced work with a lot of talking and I feel like it doesn't gain a lot from being animated.
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Hinako, who currently wants to kill herself, is being pursued by two youkai who are presumably still immortal? And one is a mermaid. If you remember the Japanese conception of a mermaid, if you eat a bite of its liver you will gain eternal life. And as it is already a youkai, stabbing it and removing a piece of its liver won't kill it. So ryona? Maybe even self inflicted?
When the manga ends will the suicidal girl end up choosing eternity with her youkai friends and abandon humanity?
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>>4482919
Good clanker.
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>>4482911
I think it really could have benefitted from it if they almost did it in a spiderverse way, where there's still speech bubbles and paneling and such that's depicted with the surrealist water effects

Think about the first sequence in the classroom where Hinako's depression is depicted as her being underwater with fish swimming by in the window, having the speech bubbles there become wavy was a thing in the manga that was still lost in translation a bit even if the speech become drowned out in the anime
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>>4483978
Inaccurate. The skirts are too short.
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>>4483983
Miko's a bad influence.
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Yashiro Miko: Story of a monster.
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The rest of the season better have that Miko-chan ED.
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>>4486027
She's a groomer, not a kidnapper.
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>>4486029
More like kid eater.
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That tone shift at the end of the episode was awful and really took me out of it. How disappointing
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Furry gf or scaly gf?
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>>4486174
Which one smells the best?
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>>4486107
you're just jealous because you don't have your own ED.

Personally, I don't have any problem with that, it raises the difference between both girls.
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Greatest love story ever told.
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>>4488042
Why are all yuriMonsters in this mango...fans of Itou Hachi?
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>>4488048
Yes.
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>>4488042
>>4488317
FBI!...oh right, its allowed now...
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>>4486174
Miko was always the better option, but alas... Main heroine always wins.
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>>4489334
I swear she was not.
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>>4489334
I don't think she was ever in the race. I reread it recently and had a feeling the author never even seeing her as a potential love interest. All romantic interactions are strictly between Hinako and fish and Miko herself from the start held to a place of best friend.
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Hang on. This could've been an oneeloli story this entire time?
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>>4489827
Miko actually cares about Hinako and has loved her since birth, even if not romantically right away. Her conflict between her nature, her guilt for being unable to protect the family and her earnest wish for Hinako to be happy is far more compelling than anything the stinky fish brings to a relationship.

>>4489831
I think you're intentionally ignoring a lot os subtle moments that show Miko likes Hinako way more than just a friend. But her role and the guilt make her mostly feel responsible for her as a caretaker more than a friend or a lover.
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>>4489973
What Hinako can gain with fish:
>Immortality and cool powers
>Fish can take any form she wants to fulfill her deep dark fantasies
>Bodyguard girlfriend
Fox offers:
>Toxoplasmosis
>Will see her mother's face if they kiss
>Tanuki watching
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Yeah, but Shiori's pussy has gotta reek, plus she probably clogs the toilet once a month when she releases a clutch of eggs.
>Shiori, is that salmon roe?
>Y-Yeah...
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>>4490098
This is a biased post. Both of them would make an effective bodyguard.
Also, has Shiori ever shapeshifted into someone completely different? If she has, are we to assume Miko cannot do the same?
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>>4490098
I love dumb ":D" Shiori faces. Imagine her giving that face when she realizes she has an out for eating Hinako.
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>>4490248
You mean eating Hinako out?
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>>4490105
>Shiori's pussy has gotta reek
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>>4490266
Yes.
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Bad fox.
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Wait what
When did this air
Any big changes from the manga
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>>4490586
Pretty big changes, the drawings move around and talk now.
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>>4490586
Shiori's species was changed from a tuna to a viperfish.
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>>4490586
Filler arc about Miko and her first human wife and kid.
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>>4490640
The kid was an orphan they adopted, just in case anyone thinks any weird shenanigans were going on.
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>>4490586
Not really, the only notable changes are that they sometimes work in the bonus chapters into the actual events of the chapters, though other times they're just included as a bonus scene at the end of episodes

The adaption itself is kinda eh, though, pretty plain direction/storyboarding and very budget animation.

The effects and compositing are fine, but not as good as the series deserves given all the cool shots the manga does with surrealist water imagerya lot of those moments don't hit as hard as they do in the manga.

The OP is great though and is what the show should have looked like.
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Episode 7 should take us about half way to 2/3 through volume 5.
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It looks like the author is treating Miko as if she is a one of a kind creature. Its interesting as in Japanese mythology kitsune can appear as lone entities, especially in some of the oldest strata of folk tales, but are more frequently associated with the goddess Inari.
If they went with the more modern, Inari centered folk tales, Miko would eventually have to run into another kitsune and the kitsune network would want to know what the hell she was doing eating her own tails and stuff. And if they then find the mermaid on land through her, there is all sorts of potential problems there. Not just a terf war between the two kinds of mazoku, but the value the unique properties of mermaid flesh would have in the modern world if the public found out would be something Inari herself couldn't ignore.
But it seems they are going with Shiori and Miko being one of a kinds without any larger populations still existing.
A reverse thought, it would be strange wouldn't it if Shiori and Miko were each one of the last of their kind and yet they are trying to bed a human instead of finding a mate? How ironic would that be?
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>>4492214
>dead mom hair
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>>4492707
Although Inari's influence runs throughout Japan, modern kitsune tend to be associated with Kyoto, and WataTabe is set in Shikoku, so there's a level of separation there.
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>>4492214
No wonder Hinako got injured so often, her mom was apparently blind.
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>>4489334
The way I see it is that Miko is the annoying mother in law
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Sneak peak at magazine cover
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Hinako was purpose made for being showered with love and orgasms.
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>>4495061
Fish woman...
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Does Miko have a bunch of nipples like a fox?
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>>4495182
If Hinako wants her to.
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>>4495182
In fox form, yes. In human form, yes.
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>>4495326
Proof?
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Someone asked me to repost spoilers here that I posted for the novel over on /a/ yesterday so here it is.
Chapter 1: Dealing with a bell youkai that puts humans to sleep forever and drains their life. Hinako gets put to sleep, Miko knows the solution is to go into the human's dream and wake them up, so both Miko and Shiori go in there. Miko gets distracted with a dream ver of Hinako's family, and Shiori meets a happy version of teenage Hinako who acts how she would if the accident never happened (picrel). They have fun together all day and Shiori has a hard time making the choice to wake her up and starts thinking maybe it's better for them to stay in the happy dream. Miko shows up to call her an idiot and reminds her Hinako would actually die in that case and so they wake her up. Hinako doesn't remember the dream. Chapter 2 is a sleepover. They all watch horror movies. Shiori likes shark movies. A youkai tries to break in during the night. Hinako almost opens the door to let it eat her but then locks it, Miko and Shiori kill it. Hinako thinks about how she actually does want to be eaten by Shiori and not a random youkai. Chapter 3 Hinako has some recollection of Miko being with her in childhood pre-accident. Flashback to Miko helping and playing with child Hinako but erasing her memories afterward. She feels a deeper bond with Miko after realizing Miko was there with her even if she forget and Shiori notices them acting extra close.
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>>4495815
Chapter 4 is a more detailed account of Miko getting sealed by the monk, living with him until his death, getting closer to humans, meeting Inugami Gyoubu, learning about the bell youkai from chapter 1 etc. Chapter 5 Has Shiori being kind of down because she noticed Hinako and Miko being closer than usual and gets jealous, and also she keeps thinking about the happy dream version of Hinako and comparing real Hinako to her and it makes her feel guilty. Miko invites Shiori to go to the movies with her and Hinako but it doesn't really help and then afterward Miko confronts Shiori about acting weird and pisses her off by guessing that maybe she likes dream Hinako more and feels guilty about it. She helps Shiori process her guilty feelings which she didn't understand on her own and then they save Hinako yet again from another youkai and there's a short but really nice manga sequence with picrel.
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>>4495816
Last post, just mentioning a funny scene from chapter 1 Shiori is so into how cute happy Hinako is that she tries to get Hinako to beg her for something and asks her to call her osakana-san (Miss Fish) while she begs. Hinako is confused as fuck because she doesn't know Shiori is a mermaid in the dream but she does it for her anyway with a little <3.
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>>4495815
What novel?
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>>4495816
Shiori has the best "lol" face.
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>>4495826
https://www.kadokawa.co.jp/product/322505000416/ It just recently came out.
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They didn't show the full gore of Shiori ripped apart Ayame like in the manga.
Boo
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>>4495815
>>4495816
Thanks, anon. Shiori just wants her loli back.
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Consider that Azami may have a right to be angry.
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>>4496354
Nah. She just can't grasp that Fish is indeed retarded.
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>>4496415
Love makes retards out of all of us.
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>>4496567
Cute wives
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>>4496571
Forgot pic
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>>4496567
Where can I be served yuri along with pastry and tea? Where were you at?
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So Azami and Erika are a couple, right?
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>>4496649
If they aren't, they will be.
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>>4495061
this post smells fishy
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>>4496647
I was about to link the yuri cafe but the site redirects somewhere else, did they close?
https://yuricafe.tokyo/
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>>4496663
>Patrickthumbsdownboo.jpeg
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Fox x Fish deito next week.
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It's not too late for Ayame to get a wife
Or gf
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>>4497174
She needs to breastfeed a starving loli to repent for her sins.
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>>4495816
what the hell is dream Hinako and why is Shiori feeling guilty about a fake not real dream version of the girl she likes? unless it means Shiori feels guilty about liking a more idealized version of Hinako more maybe?
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>>4497219
Not like that you pedolesbo, I'm talking about Ayame trying to romance Hinako
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>>4497339
>Shiori feels guilty about liking a more idealized version of Hinako more
It's that.
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>>4497341
She's too late to the party; she needed to start 10 years ago.
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>>4497341
Ayame is old fashioned.
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>>4497341
>>4497174
How about her aunt?
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>>4497648
Hinako’s real aunt? Sounds nice. She could be a better stepmother to Hinako too(no momcest obviously)
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>>4497641
Imagine the things she can do with that tongue.
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>>4497850
she could eat ice cream really fast
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New chapter where?

>Newest manga is out.
>Remember that handkerchief in the OP?
Some yokais had that brought Shiori's attention to Hinako again? It was from Azami's first encounter with Hinako.
Why is Azami trying to call Shiori out of hiding now after all these years?
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>>4497946
Presumably to kill her like the other times. She spent just as long recovering from her kamikaze attack and it doesn't seem like Azami has any way to hone in on Fish otherwise.
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>>4497957
She really is crazy if she thinks killing the fishie will free her. Most of the myths about eating Ningyo meat have the Ningyo already dead before the meat was eaten. Even where a Ningyo feeds itself to a person, there is no story that killing the Ningyo later ends the curse. This is excluding the versions where the Ningyo are immortal themselves
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>>4497960
Has she explicitly stated that she wants to kill fish because she thinks it'll undo her immortality? I thought she just wants to kill fish as revenge for granting her immortality.
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>>4497990
But what is she going to do with her life if there is no fishie to hunt anymore?
Or is that part of the larger plot like Hinkao gaining the desire to live and such?
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I think Azami is like a lesbian Captain Ahad. Fish having a new toy she actually loves just adding to her eternal butthurt.
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Cute hitodenashi being supportive to her wife.

>>4498017
I think that's also part of the reason she tried to fuck with Miko through Tsubaki. The idea that a yokai and a human could actually form any sort of bond must really piss her off.
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>>4498023
>The idea that a yokai and a human could actually form any sort of bond must really piss her off.
Sounds like a her problem. She has had how many years to fix this? Instead of finding another immortal to live with- or hunting fishie to chop off enough to make one- she just goes on a destructive 'im a victim' spree over years? Dragging in other innocent youkai and ningen?
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>>4498060
Makes you wonder about that girl with her.
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>>4498017
Honestly, rather than romantic interest, I'm thinking she'll turn out to love Shiori as a mother. She's just applying the same "if I can't be special to you because you return my love, I'll be special to you by being the one to kill you instead!" yandere logic to that.
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>>4498336
The first thing that went through my mind was "why not both?". Dammit, /u/, it's your fault.
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>>4498336
Yeah I'm honestly anticipating the same thing. I wonder if they can mend things and have some kind of positive relationship by the end of Azami's arc or if she'll just get over it and fuck off with Erika.
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>>4498358
>positive relationship by the end of Azami's arc
I hope she'll continue to be Hinako's aunt in Ooshima
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What is the significance of Ooshima anyways?
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Just can't trust those Japanese mermaids to keep their promises.
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>Hinako's pussy when she found out the yokai hottie wasn't going to disembowel her
Why is fish's wife like this?
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The company our girl keeps
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Maybe all gods were yokai at some
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>>4499976
Foxsisters...
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Itou-sensei end card in two days.
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>>4500202
Is that Sayaka?
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>>4500202
>episode 10
That child is a 10/10 with yokai.
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>>4495377
Supposedly an interview, though there was no original source given.
>>>/a/283968485
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>>4500249
Tsubaki eating good!
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Surprised it took this long to see a period joke for this series,
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>>4500273
Why would you want period jokes?
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>>4500464
To go against the flow.
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>>4500469
Isn't that going with the flow?
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>It's you! You're the Red Fox! You're wanted for... for molesting all kinds of girls!
>You're wanted clothed or naked! I'm choosing naked!
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>>4500469
>>4500531
You're all sounds like my aunt
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>>4500594
Your aunt is a sound?
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>>4500608
Are 45?
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>>4500464
>Why would you want period jokes
They said,
>Surprised it took this long to see a period joke for this series
Nowhere in their post does it say they WANTED period jokes, it sounds more like they were assuming to expect period jokes made sooner.
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>>4500695
NTA but I want them. The fish being clueless about it is funny.
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>>4500695
Alright,I will rephrase it
Why would you even expect menstruation jokes?
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>>4500711
Also NTA, but Hinako being surrounded by youkai who may not fully understand human biology creates opportunities for funny misunderstandings, including period jokes.
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>>4500750
It's kinda gross though
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>>4500711
>why would you expect menstruation jokes from a series where blood is a major plot point
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>We'll be together forever!
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>>4500937
In a just world, Azami's lovers' suicide would have been successful.
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>>4500711
>why would expect to see menstrual jokes
Because this is the internet?
Because ppl will choose to be gross if there is zero chance of backlash?

This isn't your first day I assume.
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>>4500767
I have a feeling that you laughing and mocking me irl

>>4500957
Or maybe some anons just love it, sure it sounds a kind of joke your boomer aunts will make
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>>4501061
You sound like a massive autist who doesn't understand how the human mind works.
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>>4501072
I don't think you're wrong, I do have difficulties talking with normalfags

That's why I'm here
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CANON.
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>>4501169
Delinquent proto-Miko and bitch gyaru Tsubaki is my jam
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Anime-only here. This show is so good. Best episode 10 angsty yuri backstory reveal since Madoka.
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>>4501184
If you like the anime I'd definitely recommend the manga. The unofficial translation is a bit wonky at times, but the art is gorgeous.
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>>4501181
Dagashiya looking lolicon fox
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Wait, i get it.

The creatures eating humans aren't the real monsters in this story, the real monster that wants to eat/kill her is herself.

The man-eaters are the ones protecting her from being CONSUMED by her own suicidal thoughts.
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>>4501838
I think it's called a rug pull for those not in the know.
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>>4501842
>rug pull
Or twist.
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>>4501838
I mean, can you really these creatures monsters if they're only eating to survive?
I suppose a sparrow is a monster too to the worm. It's a matter of perspective and interpretation.
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>>4501990
>only eating to survive
I think Miko also used to eat people purely for fun, not just survival.
But we have forgiven her.
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>>4501992
Eating to live is survival.
Eating to cause hurt is cruel.
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I like yuri just fine but what drew me to this was Hinako losing her family and just wanting to more or less be with them. I'm not suicidal but since I was six and my dad was murdered I've just kept losing people. Hell my mother just passed away 2 years ago. So while I don't want to die like Hinako I wish for nothing more than to be able to see them all again. Especially around the holidays. I feel like the manga is going to end sad, but at the very least I hope Hinako can find happiness. I've lost a lot of people and it really sucks when you can't find your happiness anymore.
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>>4502009
>I've just kept losing people
Unfortunately, that is an unavoidable part of living.
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>>4501990
>if they're only eating to survive
Apparently that's not the case. Miko survived without human flesh for hundreds of years resisting the hunger, Shiori regenerated in a near-vegetative state for decades and came around just fine.
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>>4502009
Not your blog.
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>>4502016
Shiori hasn't eaten people since meeting Hinako that we know of, has she?
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>>4502080
Only lesbian criminals.
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>>4502030
It makes me wonder if the author experienced something similar as a child. Cause losing people is normal but losing so many at such a young age isn't. It can mess with you is all, more so than when you lose people later in life.
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Perhaps it's because she's gaining feelings, or a soul, or at least about Hinako, but I find Shiori's true form kind of pretty. Maybe elegant? Old murderous Shiori would be frightening, but protective true form Shiori comes off comforting. Maybe it's cause I know how she's changed/changing, like Miko, so it skews my perception. If there's something to the design too though then it works well as both a thing you can believe would be both you'd be afraid of or welcoming to depending.
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>>4502240
No it's just a metaphor for social disabilities
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>>4502182
I wish a monster tried to eat me as a child.
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>>4502620
That's really adorable.
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WHITE WHALE
HOLY GRAIL
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Is this show basically Mermaid Saga but good=yuri?
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If our eyes are windows to our souls, than Shiori doesn't have one, yet.
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No one watched today's episode? Everyone gave up before episode 11?
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>>4503551
We all read the manga years ago, anon.
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>>4503698
Sorry I got hungry and ate it.
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>>4503724
Hogetsu...
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>>4503724
Anon please just get a Snickers instead.
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>>4503724
Your appetite is very big, anon
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>>4502799
Not really
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I believe the feesh and the foks should kiss and make out, sloppy style. Hinako watches and smiles then takes a bite of the McMermaid to achieve immortality and they become an eternal throuple
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>>4504932
There's still time for this to become canon.
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>>4504951
that's the endgame I'm banking on
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>monster dislikes being called a monster
lol
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>>4504932
Reminder the optimal number of cats in a house is four.
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>>4505138
Sorry Azami, we already got a 4th player here,
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>>4504932
>>4504953
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>>4505985
That escalated quickly.
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>>4506013
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>>4506014
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>>4506014
Extremely lewd. More intense than the manga.
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This is going to be a reaction clip still in use years from now.
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Suicide is selfish
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>>4506153
forcing others to live is just as selfish
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>>4506153
>>4506155
Wants are selfish wither it's for one's self or another's.
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Are they going to ruin Christmas for us?
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>>4506202
>Miko playing match maker
>Hinako actually enjoying her day
>Shiori making clear that the pledge is serious and she's not going to take bullshit like "I'm sorry"
>TSUBAKI
I like the upcoming set of chapters desu.
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It's not love, but she certainly wants her.
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She wants to strangle her.
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>>4506761
>Shiori-san is my precious friend
Absolutely hilarious that this saved Hinako's life right there.
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>>4506642
No es amor, lo que tu sientes, se llama obsesión
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>>4501184
>>4501293
Seconding, the anime is actually kinda a bad adaptation

It's not so terrible i'd say you HAVE to read the manga, but the manga is def much better
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>>4505244
aww yissss
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Real talk, how do you think Fish and Hinako's first time will go?
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>>4507007
Hinako is a dead fish and Shiori is an actual fish, they're not doing anything without Miko guiding them the whole way.
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>>4507007
Just like chapter 28: starts gentle and awkward but turns rough and predatory in a way that they ends with Hinako cooking up breakfast for the Fishe while she brags to Miko about what she and Hinako did the night before.
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I really like that the turning point in the conversation was that Shiori made Hinako laugh with something dumb she said. Even though she is actually trying now, at this point still has absolutely no idea how to handle a discussion like this beyond simply telling Hinako what she wants from her and praying she agrees through some strange conversation magic that Miko has that's supposed to replace "trick human into doing what you want" somehow. She absolutely fucks it up, because what else was ever going to happen droping her into a suicide negotiation as her very first honest social encounter?

But beneath all of the supernatural contrivances and cursed promises, Hinako genuinely is charmed by her fish's autrizzm on a basic human level. She wants to let herself like her.
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>>4506155
If you survive there is always a chance things get better. If you die there is nothing and everyone around you suffers. The only situations in which in suicide is acceptable is an unsalvagable situation where you will be tortured without end.
And no, being depressed is not that kind of torture. Depression can be mitigated and either mildened or cured. Letting a depressed girl kill herself is basically making you complicit in murder. At the very least it is failure to render assistance.
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>>4502016
You are ignoring that Miko ate her own tails to stave of said hunger. Something absolutely absurd for a nine-tailed fox to do. That's like eating your own arms and legs.
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>>4507554
That was only in the case of Hinako being exceptionally delicious.
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>>4507611
Suuure, but that is kind of an excuse. Do you need to eat your own legs if you see your favorite dish in the world in front of you? Miko has been actively diminishing her power for over a decade because she is not staying dormant in the shrine. The only reasons she spent centuries without having to feed is because she wasn't being active.

So from that I think we can glance that monsters can survive without feeding, but only if they basically hibernate or eat other monsters or themselves.
This wouldnt be so bad if they could just sustain themselves on animals like humans can. I never really understood why this is not an option.
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>>4507854
Miko isn't losing power, she's just bound because she was turned into a makeshift land god. You missed the part where modern food is so energy dense that it's actually preferable for monsters. Shiori recovered rapidly precisely because of this. Miko isn't starving at all, she's just subject to the fact that humans seasoned with mermaid blood are exceptionally delicious.
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Has Hinako tried SSRIs yet?
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>>4508053
Hell yeah she's trying SSRIs...

Super
Salty
Raunchy
Ichthyology
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>>4507946
For a nine-tailed fox, their tails are their power. Eating them majorly weakens them. So yes, she is absolutely losing power. And Miko has stated that she is getting weaker the longer she is away from the shrine. Maybe it's a unique situation for her then.
If she wasn't so weaknened she could probably deal with every single threat herself though, which would be boring.
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>>4508063
There is no indication Miko has been eating her tails with any regularity. She was a three-tailed fox when she was defeated by the monk.
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>>4508055
Eating cloaca is good for your brain? But then why is fishie not a genius?
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>>4508218
She has literally said that she did it several times before. So with her being down to this few kinda implies she had more.
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>>4508451
Where does she say that? Are you sure you aren't mixing it up with when she said she SHOULD have done it sooner? The whole point of the scene is that she's giving up her pride and power for the the sake of being with Hinako, so it would significantly diminish the meaning of that sacrifice if she's been doing it on the regular but for some reason just never got around to it this time until now.
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>>4508671
Maybe it's like trimming her nails, she just doesn't bother unless she has a partner.
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>no tanuki cameo
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New chapter's out.
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>>4506153
>>4506155
Individuality is a lie and consent is not a valid foundation for ethics.
We owe a debt to others simply by being born. It doesn't matter that we had no choice. No amount of narcissistic whinging will change that.
Who the hell do you think you are to shirk your burden?
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>>4508845
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>>4508928
>owe a debt for unconsented act
face the wall
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>>4508928
>Individuality is a lie
Says the individual.
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>>4508884
Crazy witch.
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Where does Shiori get the money to pay for things like that hairclip and her utility bills? Does she just magic it into existence, or is she eating people on the side and taking their wallets? I would think that living with a youkai who has an infinite supply of money would be far preferable to being eaten and put out of your misery.
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>>4509267
Isn't she raiding Miko's donation box? When Miko isn't giving her money. Miko lives out of her donation box.
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>>4509267
>money
Foxe gives her an allowance
>utilities
Both her and Miko are homeless. I think Miko can dematerialize but Shiori just kind of hangs out and does whatever because she doesn't require sleep.
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>>4509455
I can see Miko using the money she gets from worshippers donating some cash to pay for stuff. The idea that Shiori kept shoplifting by using yokai mind tricks on the shopkeepers to get away with it until Miko told her to knock it off amuses me, though. It's a bit sad that they're both homeless. They should both move in with Hinako and eat all of her food, it's not like her aunt is ever around to mind.
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>>4509446
If Miko has been putting aside her donations in even a modest growth fund, even 50 years of compounding interest ought to keep her set for life considering how few expenses she has.
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This is funny.
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>>4511344
Makes sense. The more certain it is that Azami gets a tragic bittersweet ending, the more likely it is that the main story about Hinako gets a happy ending as contrast.

>hatch plan for decades to take revenge on your ex
>your presence as an antagonist is what ultimately brings her together with her new girl instead of ending in tragedy and turning into sea foam with a broken heart

Man, Azami really played herself, huh.
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>>4511344
Can confirm, I literally lol'd when it was posted on /a/wttb/.
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>>4510692
Can fishe partially transform so her scales exactly mirror Hinako's scars?
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>>4511946
We've seen Fish partially transform a few times now without going full ningyo, so probably.
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>>4513033
Sleeping with their daughter.
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https://x.com/yuriranbou/status/2007968475093107135
Miko's still a predator.
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>>4513350
>>4513351
I love Fishe and Hinako in their winter uniforms. They both look great in black.
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Is Hinako a Devil Summoner or a Pokegirl Trainer?
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>>4513376
Devil summoner. Chapter 28 was a demon negotiation.
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>>4513376
>>4513378
Hinako Kuzunoha and the Mystery of the Lewd Fishe and the Lusty Foxe
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>>4513385
Need to see Erika's true form so we can get a proper face off going here.
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Government sanctioned
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>>4513426
Do they even know that it's a series about suicide?
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>>4513611
It's about preventing suicide, which is naturally in Japan's best interest.
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>>4513611
They not only know, they actively want these depressed dykes front and center in your mind when you think of the tranquil waters of Ehime.
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>>4513612
Suicide is Japanese culture you ignorant bigot.
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>>4513958
>>4514227
I'm addicted to cute watatabe images
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>>4514227
That UFO catcher machine has some weird stuff.
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Episodd 14 and 15 were great. Even elevated the source material. You could tell Naekawa and the anime staff were in sync during the production and did justice to the tanuki.
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>>4514247
Don't do this to me.
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>>4514247
Indeed, not animating that dumb faggot was doing her justice.
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>>4514252
I figured Tsubaki fans and haters a like would have wanted to see her get bitch broken on screen.
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>>4514247
>Episode 15 ED: Lily by Professional student A
Tanuki was done dirty.
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>>4514230
Too big to upload, but these are cute too
https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/139450177
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>>4514545
>>
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>anime DIDN'T end with Shiori dragging her to the bottom of the sea so they could "live" (kek) happily together

my disappointment is immesurable and my day is ruined

also why the FUCK did the anime get a sexual content warning on CR. baka got my god damn hopes up for NOTHING
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>>4515089
Go back to greenlight At the mountains of madness, Guillermo.
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>>4515030
Drop Hinako, embrace toxic fox-fish crossbreeding.
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This anime adaptation and the Watanare one really gave me hope that we are finally reaching the yuri anime golden age where we get actual high quality adaptations. Like YagaKimi was good too, but they never did season 2, so it ended awkwardly. Citrus was kinda bad as an adaptation (and the source material too).
MagiRevo is the last good yuri anime adaptation I remember before these.

Anyway, really hoping for a season 2.
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>>4515282
I wouldn't say Watatabe got a good adaptation. It's not terrible but it's clearly low budget and has production issues.
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>>4515329
Look, it is accurate to the source material, doesn't fuck up anywhere and captures the atmosphere and emotion of the manga. That is a good adaptation, especially compared to the usual disappointments we have to deal with.
Like yeah, it doesn't have Watanare's animation quality or YagaKimi's art direction, but I can tell someone they are fine watching this anime if they don't want to read manga/LNs, which I absolutely cannot with most yuri adaptations.
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Managed to snag Naekawa's doujinshi from c107.

>>4515282
>>4515331
Agreed.
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>>4515372
>Naekawa's doujinshi
Wait what? The author made doujins for their own work?
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>>4515379
Yep!
https://www.melonbooks.co.jp/detail/detail.php?product_id=3436534
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>>4515404
Oh so it's mostly an artbook with extra goods. That's still odd though. You would think this could just be a bonus chapter in the tankubon and the merch could be sold through the publisher.
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>>4515280
They really have so much chemistry. pfff
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>>4515280
>>4515424
Miko's reaction to the fish woman.
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>>4515606
Foxes love eating fish...
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>>4515606
She's seen it.
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>>4515636
I can't believe Miko wanted to get Shiori off...
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So Miko had 6 tails at the start of the story (she ate 2 and dropped down to 4). From what I remember a kitsune gets one new tail from amassing power for a century. That would imply Miko is at least 600 years old. I also heard starting with 5 tails, kitsune are considered elders or extremely powerful. Of course when one becomes a nine-tailed fox they are basically a deity.

It's interesting how you can gain so much context just from that for Miko, but with Shiori we just know she has been around longer than World War 2 at least, because that's when Azumi suicide bombed her. But obviously it's implied she has been immortal for a long time and kept hunting Shiori. They originally met in that cove with a village who still did human sacrifices, which sounds a bit more medieval.
Japanese Mermaids aren't really known to be super strong monsters, just creepy and have special skills. Of course mermaid flesh making you immortal is insane, but it feels weird how the story positions Shiori as some kind of powerhouse monster. Maybe it's because she is so old.

I just wonder about the power levels sometimes, because to me it feels like Miko should be substantially stronger than Shiori, even with just 4 tails left. Especially when she fights as smart as in their first battle and denies Shiori access to the ocean.
The point I am trying to make is that if Shiori ever were to go through with her pledge to eat Hinako, there is just no way Miko wouldn't just slaughter her first. Shiori would go all out to fulfill her part of the deal, but ultimately I can only see her perish. It would be a very easy countermeasure. Miko already promised Shiori that she would tear her to pieces if she ever hurt Hinako, so I see little actual danger unless Hinako willingly lets herself get eaten out of Miko's range, which would go against her desire to live, which is the whole condition for Shiori to eat her.
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>>4515711
I don't think there's anything at all to suggest that Shiori and Miko aren't of similar levels of strength, but more to the point, Miko isn't willing to directly go against Hinako's wishes. She can pretend quietly to herself that she doesn't know what Hinako really wants, but she can't bring herself to directly acknowledge or argue against it like Shiori will. Even if she could, killing Shiori would just make Hinako hate her, both for forcing her to live and for making her go through yet another loss of a loved one, and Hinako would be right back to trying to kill herself unless Miko is also willing to do the "stipping her of freedom and dignity" thing. Heck, this time it'd be kind of Hinako's fault because she pushed Shiori into remaking the promise, so even worse for her mental state.

>which would go against her desire to live, which is the whole condition for Shiori to eat her
The condition is to smile again like she used to. Having one good day or period doesn't mean you've escaped depression, and Hinako makes it pretty clear that so far, she still can't let go of her wish to be with her parents despite how much better she's feeling.
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>>4515717
Miko has already acknowledged Hinako's wish for death. Hinako directly confessed it to her and Miko admitted to Shiori she had always known.
Miko would never let Hinako get eaten, regardless of what Hinako wants. She is the one who believes in talking and healing, even if it is hard, unlike Shiori who initially took the easy path.
I don't think Hinako could ever come to hate Miko, even if she killed Shiori. Not only because this is probably what Shiori would prefer anyway, but also because Hinako understands that Miko is doing it for her. She has heard how cruel and evil Miko used to be and still wanted to be her best friend. And after realizing how much her death would hurt these two, she also would understand why they would resort to that solution.
>she just has to smile like she used to
The underlying narrative there is that she has to be as happy and carefree or at least full of life as she used to be as a child. You can't achieve this without a strong will to live.
There is that scene where Hinako smiles at Shiori and Shiori immediately has the image of child Hinako overlap with the present smile and says she really is the one etc. That scene implies to me that if it was just replicating the smile Shiori already would have had to kill her in that moment. But clearly it has to go along with the mental state.

Basically Hinako would need to want happiness and exude happiness and at that point I find it hard to believe she still would want to die. But it is also possible that this has the reverse effect... knowing that Miko would kill Shiori to stop her, maybe Hinako would intentionally let herself get eaten so Shiori can survive, even if she would lose her reason to live...
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>>4515718
>Hinako directly confessed it to her and Miko admitted to Shiori she had always known.
You're missing the point. She knows, but she can't bring herself to directly go against it. Where Shiori will directly confront it, Miko is only able to deal with it on an "out of sight, out of mind" basis around her.

>Miko would never let Hinako get eaten, regardless of what Hinako wants
She reflects multiple times on whether it was actually better for Hinako to survive, and wonders after her fight with Shiori if it's simply too late for them to do anything to save her. She's not willing to step across her bounds and directly go against Hinako.

>She is the one who believes in talking and healing, even if it is hard, unlike Shiori who initially took the easy path.
The "easy" path is literally the only reason that Hinako let Shiori get close to her. If she was like Miko to start with, she'd have been kept at a distance just like Miko was.

>I don't think Hinako could ever come to hate Miko, even if she killed Shiori.
It would fundamentally break their relationship, and even apart from that would simply leave Hinako in an even worse place than she started. "I was bad centuries ago but I've clearly grown past that" isn't the same thing as "I killed the only person you might have been willing to live for". Hinako who's lost Shiori, especially if it's her fault, is just back to killing herself anyway.

>And after realizing how much her death would hurt these two, she also would understand why they would resort to that solution.
The entire conflict of the manga is that she can't do this. Just knowing that her friends will be hurt by her death is very much, explicitly, not enough for Hinako to stop wanting it.

>The underlying narrative there is that she has to be as happy and carefree
Clearly not what Hinako thinks, and if Shiori is willing to use technicalities to delay keeping it, that's effectively not much different from just having been lying again from Hinako's pov.
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>>4515725
>whether it was actually better for Hinako to survive, and wonders after her fight with Shiori if it's simply too late for them to do anything to save her. She's not willing to step across her bounds and directly go against Hinako.
This is completely outdated. Miko has taken a firm stance against letting Hinako die after the Tanuki arc. She has told Shiori straight up that she won't let Hinako die.
>she would have kept her at a distance
That's just empty speculation, especially because the point is that tallking it out would be the best solution. The pledge Shiori made was just an awful stop gap measure because she refused to understand Hinako and just didn't actually know how to talk.
Since then Shiori softened up considerably and actually talked to Hinako which helped Hinako realize her mistakes. Shiori's original method was completely unbeneficial. Promising to eat Hinako just feeds into her mental illness.

The chapter where they went on a trip together was very explicit about the fact that Hinako started to enjoy herself a little. Miko's methods are not ineffective, she just couldn't be there for Hinako as much as she wanted because she had to keep a distance due to her desire to eat her. After sacrifcing her tails, sticking with Hinako and Shiori as a friendship group and giving Hinako the concept of "changing yourself" in the Tanuki arc Hinako is actually healing.

Also if Shiori had never appeared (leaving monsters eating Hinako aside), Hinako would never have found out about the prayer being not from her family, so she would not have wanted to kill herself.
>It would fundamentally break their relationship
This is nonsense without any basis.
>"I killed the only person you might have been willing to live for"
Again, there is no evidence that Hinako sees Shiori this way yet. Hinako right now is not willing to live for either of them, but she cares about both of them. There is still no reason to think she would hate Miko for it.
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>>4515725
>Just knowing that her friends will be hurt by her death is very much, explicitly, not enough for Hinako to stop wanting it.
I don't understand how you could miss my point so much. Nobody was talking about how this will make her want to live. I said she would understand why Miko did it and why Shiori (potentiallly) wanted to be killed before she could eat Hinako. The whole point was about her not hating Miko for it... Try to keep up?
>Clearly not what Hinako thinks
Based on literally nothing. It's clear that it's about her returning to being full of life. That is quite directly what Shiori says.
>Shiori is willing to use technicalities
You are the one who pretends it is a technicality for no reason though.
What exactly do you think Shiori meant when she said when Hinako went from despair to hope, Shiori would go from hope to despair by eating her? The message here is that Hinako would have to return to wanting to live and that the cruelty pushed on Shiori is that she would have to kill Hinako just when she got what she wanted.
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>>4515731
Show me where Miko indicates she's willing to directly deny Hinako's wishes. She doesn't; it's a fundamental part of her character that she doesn't feel able to directly take action to stop her in the way that Shiori is, and I really can't see how any discussion here can be productive if we're just going to ignoring something that crucial and basic.

>Shiori's original method was completely unbeneficial.
A core theme of the story is that simply having a reason to get up each day, to do things and interact with people, is the first step to recovering, and the promise was the only reason that Hinako would have been willing to accept.

>Miko's methods are not ineffective, she just couldn't be there for Hinako as much as she wanted
Refer to her conversation with Shiori at the camp. Hinako can't fully let Miko in, because Miko can't directly address the elephant in the room in the way Shiori is willing to. Without Shiori, Hinako keeps turning outings with Miko down and keeping herself closed off.

>Hinako would never have found out about the prayer being not from her family, so she would not have wanted to kill herself.
The prayer was not enough. It kept her alive so far, but she was still deteriorating to the point she was ready to let it all go in episode 1. Shiori recognizing that was *why* her only option was to tempt her with what she most wanted.

>This is nonsense without any basis.
No, anon, the idea that your relationship with someone will never recover after they kill the person you're closest to, in the process denying your agency over your life in a way that your existing relationship is founded on them not doing and giving you another round of survivor's guilt is not "without any basis". Even if it's not outright "hatred" per se, there is no possibility of them being the same people to each other that they were before.
>>
>Hinako right now is not willing to live for either of them, but she cares about both of them.
We are talking about a hypothetical future event in which Hinako is either willing to live, or recovering to the point she might eventually be willing to live. If that happens, it is going to be because of Shiori; I know this, you know this.

>Nobody was talking about how this will make her want to live. I said she would understand why Miko did it
Okay? She understood why Shiori lied to her the first time. That isn't the same thing as being able to accept it. If it's just about "understanding" Miko killing Shiori, then sure, but also irrelevant; Miko has still crossed a threshold she can never take back, and Hinako still has the guilt of being the reason Shiori died now on top of the loss of her family.

>Based on literally nothing.
Based on the fact that Hinako acted on that assumption by trying to act as happy as she could and imitate how she used to smile. If Shiori gets to say "oh, no, you are finally smiling at me like before and enjoying yourself, but what I meant was that you have to exude life!", she might as well just revert back to "sorry, I am a lying monster after all". Even as Hinako does begin to enjoy herself more, that's explicitly not the same thing as abandoning her wish that she had died.

>What exactly do you think Shiori meant when she said when Hinako went from despair to hope
Uh, exactly that? Hinako was in despair that the promise was a lie; Shiori is giving her new hope by making a new promise, at the cost of her own hope turning to despair.
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>>4515738
You brought up an early chapter where she wondered if it's too late to save Hinako or whether it would have been kinder to let her die, but Miko has completely refuted that stance in a later chapter. I can't be bothered to read through them all again right now though.
>that promise would have been the only reason
This is bullshit. She did all of that before Shiori ever appeared. The last wishes of her family were what kept her going. If anything Shiori took away her reason to keep going and replaced it with a worse one.
>but without Shiori blah blah blah
This is not the counterpoint you think it is. Miko's method includes Shiori. Shiori needs to talk and be there for Hinako. That's why Miko keeps giving Shiori and Hinako both advice that would push them towards each other and talk. Like I said, Miko's method is absolutely working in the long run. Shiori just did something unnecessary that made everything worse.
>she was willing to let go in episode 1
Except she wouldn't have. She thought about jumping but she wouldn't have. The only time Hinako was actively willing to kill herself was after finding out the prayer was from Shiori, not her family. That was what broke the camel's back. That is the whole premise of the show, that Hinako is unwilling to commit suicide, so she needs an outside force to kill her without her own input.
>there is no way they would be the same as before
An irrelevant statement. As I explained, by that point Hinako would actually want to live and she already understands Miko's and Shiori's feelings. Understanding why they did it immensely lowers the animosity, especially if Shiori was fine with it. Hinako would grief again, but the alternative would have been for Shiori to grief forever, which Hinako understands now is eternal torment and much worse than death to her.
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>>4515739
>>4515739
>it will be because of Shiori
Clearly it's because of all the people around her. Trying to credit it all to Shiori is really shallow.
>but why did she fake smiling then??
You dont seem to be very consistent. If smiling like back then was the actual trigger, why did Hinako not question why Shiori didnt eat her yet? Because that isnt the point. Hinako is trying to pretend she is returning to being happy and she shows it to Shiori. Shiori can tell they are fake, so they wouldnt count, but Hinako doesnt know that. But the one time she actually had a smile that Shiori considered similar to her past self, Shiori did still not try to eat her.
>Even as Hinako does begin to enjoy herself more, that's explicitly not the same thing as abandoning her wish that she had died
That's an inane statement. Obviously just healing a little bit is not enough to overcome her suicidal depression. We are talking about a future moment where she will have recovered much further.
>Shiori is giving her new hope by making a new promise, at the cost of her own hope turning to despair
That is not how Shiori framed it. Shiori said Hinako would REACH hope and WHEN she reaches that hope, Shiori will go from hope to despair. If the promise itself was already giving Hinako that hope, then this would not be stated as a future outcome. Shiori's hope is that Hinako returns to her old self and wants to live. How can she keep that hope and turn it into despair when eating her, if that hope is crushed from the beginning according to your logic?
No, the point is that Hinako wants to live and that is the moment their states of hope and despair flip. Hinako has hope in her life again and Shiori gains despair because she takes it away.
From Shiori's POV there is no purpose to this promise if she doesnt get to see Hinako happy if just for a moment. This is why the smile is not the real point.
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>>4515743
>I can't be bothered to read through them all again right now though.
Well, I can't argue against "just trust me".

>This is bullshit. She did all of that before Shiori ever appeared.
No, before Shiori appeared, Hinako was pretty much a walking corpse. Hinako is willing to go out and try things (eg. summer festival) because she now has the promise of finally getting what she wants, just like she would never had been willing to go on the onsen trip without the second promise having been made.

>Miko's method includes Shiori.
Shiori never could have been there for her without the promise. The reason "Miko's method" requires Shiori is that someone like Miko couldn't get close to her.

>Except she wouldn't have. She thought about jumping but she wouldn't have.
And then she welcomed and smiled at her death before Shiori saved her. Just like "but Miko will be sad" wasn't enough to keep her from getting worse and worse until eventually she can't stay alive, neither are the last wishes. Hinako in chapter 1 isn't stable, she's on the brink and deteriorating, and narratively Shiori recognizes that.

>Understanding why they did it immensely lowers the animosity, especially if Shiori was fine with it.
If Shiori is fine with it, she could just take whatever the magical backlash from breaking the promise is and die (or whatever) to that - and in that case, which of them dies is between Shiori and Hinako, and it's definitely not Miko's place to decide for them. This scenario only makes sense if Miko is trying to kill a Shiori who is not willing to accept that.

>Clearly it's because of all the people around her.
The fact that Shiori is the one needed to make Hinako's life start moving again is what the manga is entirely about. This is like trying to say "but Sayaka helped too!" when talking about why Touko was able to heal; overwhelmingly, it's because of Yuu entering her life, because Sayaka wasn't the kind of person who could directly confront Touko in way she needed.
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>But the one time she actually had a smile that Shiori considered similar to her past self, Shiori did still not try to eat her.
Again, it's not that they're the same smile, it's that Shiori is coming to understand that there's more to her care for Hinako than just the exact same innocent smile she used to have when she invited her to "this side". When she approached Hinako initially, it was because she wanted to get her to return to how she used to be.

>Shiori said Hinako would REACH hope and WHEN she reaches that hope, Shiori will go from hope to despair
You're giving way too much credit to the specific word choices of the translation. What you're saying makes no sense; why would Shiori have hope when Hinako is becoming happy? She knows at that point she's about to have to eat her. The moment when Shiori's hope changes from despair is right as she makes the promise. As we see in later chapters, Shiori isn't hopeful right now, she's constantly thinking about how, even as she sees Hinako beginning to improve, she's eventually going to be trapped by the promise she made. She abandoned the hope that she had going into the conversation of "maybe I can convince her" in order to give Hinako hope instead.

>From Shiori's POV there is no purpose to this promise if she doesnt get to see Hinako happy if just for a moment.
At the time she made the promise, Shiori is still asking Hinako to please change back into her old childlike self. She didn't understand yet that it's not just the smile in that moment that's valuable to her, it's all of Hinako herself.
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>>4515747
>just trust me
You have the ability to read the manga as well.
>she wouldnt have gone to the summer festival etc.
That's not relevant. You said she wouldnt have the drive to keep living or to even get up. She was pressing on regardless.
>Someone like Miko couldnt get close
She already did you dumbass. Are you just ignoring half the manga or what? You are intentionally making up a false dichotomy. As if Miko, who is literally like the sun to Hinako and repeatedly cited as who saved her when she was young, was somehow unimportant and never did anything for her that mattered, because she didnt specifically defeat her entire depression on her own while having to keep her distance due to hunger.
The reason Shiori is needed is because she is connected to Hinako and because she pushed Miko to eat her tails and come out with the truth, which allowed Miko to take a more active part in Hinako's life. Miko's method is for Shiori to COMMUNICATE with Hinako. This has actually worked toom, as Hinako has already realized things and changed because of that. Miko's example of changing herself is the active inspiration for everything Hinako is doing after the Tanuki arc.
>she welcomed her death
If you are refering to the beach woman trying to eat her... yeah? This is literally the point of the manga? She is willing to get killed, she just can't kill herself. This distinction is the entire crux of Hinako's character.
>Hinako is at the brink of deteriorating
No, every flashback to traumatized younger Hinako already shows she was in this state the entire time.
>Shiori should just die from magical backlash
We have no idea how the pledge works. For all we know she will die anyway if she breaks it or it could compel her against her will. Miko and Shiori are much more in sync than they admit. Shiori MUST keep her promise to eat Hinako. Miko will interfere and Shiori will try as hard as possible to win and eat Hinako, but it would be better if she lost and she knows that.
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>>4515747
>Sayaka
These arent remotely comparable. Miko is an immensely important part of Hinako's life since her very childhood and has actively made moves that have helped her heal, especially since Shiori appeared. But most importantly since the Tanuki arc.

>>4515748
>it's not that they are the same smile
Yes, the whole scene implies that it's the same kind of smile that she wanted to see. She would have had to eat her on the spot if your logic was what they are going with, which is absolutely retarded literalism that misses the whole point of the deal.
>she abandoned her hope etc.
You are the one who isnt paying attention to the wording and the things Shiori said and did after. Seeing Hinako happy again, even if only for a moment till she has to eat her, is her entire modus operandi right now. It doesn't make her happy that she has to keep that promise and she is clearly trying to ignore the pain for now, but her hope is directly tied to Hinako's happiness. And despair only comes when she ends her.
Hinako is in despair right now. Despair is a stand-in for depression, the lack of will to live. Hope is her not wanting to die.
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>>4515749
I have read it, and I don't know what line or scene you are referring to, so I can hardly engage with or refute it.

>She was pressing on regardless.
Again, she was behaving like a walking corpse. I genuinely do not believe that your takeaway from that was "this person is saying she literally was dead!". She was not able to engage with her life, which in turn makes healing impossible, and it's only due to the promise that she can try putting herself out there again. We explicitly are shown this both with the festival and the onsen trip. There's a reason she starts chapter 1 with the same "ikitakunai..." as she does after the promise is broken.

>was somehow unimportant and never did anything for her
No, I never said that. Miko supported her, but it wasn't enough to keep Hinako stable, and that very support is what made Hinako pull away from her - the whole "you need shade when the sun is too hot" metaphor during the date. Hinako felt like she had to keep up appearances around Miko or it's like she's being ungrateful for how much Miko cares, whereas with Shiori she can express herself honestly.

>Miko's example of changing herself is the active inspiration for everything Hinako is doing
In her thoughts prior to the cultural festival about change, Miko gets one panel. It's certainly one example she thinks of, but I'd say the focus is rather more strongly on the concluding "for me, she is willing to slowly change".

>She is willing to get killed, she just can't kill herself.
And without the promise, she either keeps getting worse until even that isn't enough just like the thought of hurting Miko eventually isn't enough, or a monster gets to her and she gleefully welcomes it. The only way she started to improve is through the promise and the hope it offered.
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>No, every flashback to traumatized younger Hinako already shows she was in this state the entire time.
Untrue. When Hinako cries while talking with Miko about Shiori, Miko remembers that Hinako was also crying like this after the accident, and reflects that she has Shiori to thank for her improvement.

>We have no idea how the pledge works. For all we know she will die anyway if she breaks it or it could compel her against her will.
From the LN, it's an absolute promise that will guarantee destruction if broken. What exactly thta means is ambiguous, but zero suggestion of any kind of compulsion, which wouldn't make sense anyway given Miko saying that Shiori has the ability to choose when to fulfil it.

>These arent remotely comparable.
They're very comparable. Sayaka played an extremely important role in supporting Touko, but ultimately can't be the one who actually saves her because she has too many boundaries she won't overstep, while Yuu is willing to get in her face and tell her she wants her to change. She helps advise Yuu, but she can't be who Touko needs directly.

>Yes, the whole scene implies that it's the same kind of smile that she wanted to see.
Again, I simply do not accept your assertion. Hinako cannot smile again like she used to, and it's not part of Shiori's character development to think that she is, it's part of her character development to understand that she still values her smile even if she can't.

>Hinako is in despair right now. Despair is a stand-in for depression, the lack of will to live. Hope is her not wanting to die.
Why would that be hope? That's not what the word means. You have to hope *for* something, it doesn't just mean general happiness and healing. Before the conversation, Hinako had lost the thing she was hoping for, and Shiori was hoping that she could save her. By making the promise, Shiori abandons her own hope in order to respark Hinako's.
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Does the merch seem like it's doing well? I keep getting "watatabe goods sold out! Restock coming!" tweets, but obviously they're not going to be putting out big announcements about any of it that isn't getting any interest.
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>>4515768
I'm just waiting for the officially licensed Watatabe-themed fishtank.
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>>4515759
Can Sayaka beat Miko in a mahjong game though?
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>>4515768
I think based on selling out of everything else (manga, ost, "official" doujinshi), it would be fair to assume that it's selling within or ahead of expectation. I think BDs won't do that great but that's mainly because they've been an archaic metric since streaming caught on in Japan.
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Speaking of merch, plushies would actually be huge and they should invest in fluffy.
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>>4515809
I would buy those in a heartbeat.
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Finally some discussion.

>>4515759
The terms of the pledge were left intentionally vaguely likely because the author herself was not completely sure how to resolve it, and left herself plenty of wiggle room to exploit technicalities. For all we know Shiori might hold off on eating Hinako until she's an old lady on death's door, or Hinako might partake in Shiori's flesh so that she gets better after being eaten. As for Shiori's intentions, it's hard to say whether she'd want to spare Hinako the suffering of losing her or whether she'd be vindictive enough to think "now you know how I feel for you". I wouldn't rule out the possibility of Shiori conspiring with Miko to prevent her from eating Hinako. Granted, Miko doesn't actually have to kill her: just rendering her into fish paste would buy a few decades, after which Shiori could still fulfill the promise in the previously described scenario.

The main difference is that Touko never actually needs Sayaka. She's a dear friend but it's not like she would have gone off the rails if not for her. Even disregarding all the youkai that came after her, Hinako states in no uncertain terms that Miko kept her alive emotionally even if she didn't really get any better. Moreover, Shiori does not have the emotional intelligence to save Hinako without Miko's input. Her fishy schemes are just a stopgap measure to prolong Hinako's life; she can't figure out how to truly connect with Hinako without Miko pointing out her own feelings and spelling out how to bond with her on a human level.

Hinako is currently hoping to die, which is an irony against the concept of hope itself (especially because the source of that is despair at the loss of her family), so it's clear in context that she wants Hinako to find the kind of hope that drives her to live.
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>>4515810
I'd love these, but I think their a Naekawa exclusive item because she said her sister stitched together her Foxe and Fishe yokai plushes.
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>>4515842
Yeah I think I've seen those on her twitter. Such a sweet sister.
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>>4515758
>Again, she was behaving like a walking corpse
And she was like that since childhood, so clearly she was not going to kill herself or stop going. The entire point of this exchange.
>In her thoughts prior to the cultural festival about change, Miko gets one panel.
You are ignoring, for some incredibly weird reason, that Hinako never in any way would have realized anything about change with Miko's example. It is only because Miko showed her that she could overcome her bad nature and become someone bright and cheerful that she realized she can change and that Shiori also changed for her.
Without change nothing can happen. Shiori just fed her mental illness until Miko bitch slapped her and told her to actually communicate.
>she only got better through the promise
No you dumb retard, how many times do I need to repeat this? The manga itself frames the pledge as a MISTAKE. This idiotic action was born from the inability to COMMUNICATE and understand each other. Feeding a suicidal person the promise to kill them painlessly later is considered a huge faux-pas in therapy, believe it or not. It's just induling the worst impulses. The whole point is that Shiori, inhuman and stupid as she is to human emotions, pushed her own desires on Hinako, and when that didn't work just did the nuclear option because she has no idea what else to do.
You keep pretending it was that retarded pledge that helped, but is isnt. Everything unrelated to the pledge, like actual communication and connecting over their feelings is what helped. The thing Miko fucking told Shiori to do from the start.
On that day where Hinako ran into the ocean, if Shiori had been properly able to communicate with her she could have pulled her away, even if not cure her depression right away.

It feels like you don't get the message of the story in the slightest. That to cure depression you must use empathy and the will to change yourself.
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>>4515759
>Miko remembers that Hinako was also crying like this after the accident
Wrong. That panel was of pre-accident Hinako. She has the same life-filled eyes and cute outfit and is holding on to her parent's leg. Miko's point was that after the incident, Hinako never openly and honestly cried like that again.
>Sayaka played an extremely important role
No she fucking didn't. She was only relevant to Touko's relationship with Yuu a single time by having the courage to confess and pushing Touko onwards. This isn't even in the same ballpark. It's a very minor push.
In comparison Miko is integral to Hinako's existence and is the driving force behind making Shiori actually change for Hinako. What do you think the entire volume just about Shiori and Miko discussing her nature was about? Miko is the reaosn Shiori tried to change her approach. Miko is the reason Hinako is even still alive, both from a monster defender standpoint, but also from a emotional support standpoint.
It's ludicrous to equate this to Sayaka.
>Hinako cannot smile again like she used to
Because, and this should have maybe clicked in your head by now, the smile from then requires her to have the will to live and by happy. The thing I have said the entire fucking time.
But on a purely mechanical level, that smile was good enough. You are the idiot who keeps pretending the physical action of smiling is what the whole pledge is about..
>You have to hope *for* something, it doesn't just mean general happiness and healing
Oh my goddess, you are dense as a brick... Hope for life is an idiom. You are hopeful for your future, you have hope in your life. Hinako is hopeless right now. Dying at Shiori's hand is not hope, it's slavation. They are not the same thing.
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>>4516002
>The manga itself frames the pledge as a MISTAKE.
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>>4516020
That is Shiori's WRONG interpretation and self-justification. She is trying to put a positive spin on her mistake. Do I need to post every single page of Shiori being extremely unhappy about her entire situation because of the dumb pledge? Do I need to post Miko telling her to TALK to Hinako properly?

Honestly, it's obvious that your walnut brain doesn't comprehend that a bad solution is still a solution. The pledge worked temporarily, at the price of being much worse than any other solution. Shiori wanted Hinako to live longer at any cost, but was unable to find a better way, because she is not human enough (yet).
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For a more easily understood example let's make an analogy.
Some people cope with lots of stress by eating. They will stuff themselves more and more with food and grow obese and unhealthy. This is their way to cope and while they eat they feel better.

What Shiori did is hand the stressed person a bag of heartburn inducing sugar filled donuts and says she should keep eating them to feel better, which will eventually lead to a heart attack.
The real solution is to find healthy ways to cope with stress and to soothe that anxiety. But Shiori isn't capable of understanding that method yet, so she can only throw donuts at the problem, while seeing Hinako grow unhealthy and obese, but being able to smile.
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>>4516022
That's not "the manga framing", that's projecting your own thoughts onto the manga. All of the visual language here conveys that this is Shiori being sincere and straightforward. You aren't making arguments about what the manga is saying, you're making arguments about why *you* think it was bad, and assuming that therefore the narrative must also agree.

This is honestly such a basic and fundamental misunderstanding of what isn't even subtextual that I genuinely don't know where I could even start unpacking it. No, Shiori's heartfelt arc-ending speech summing up her development thus far about choosing the Hinako of tomorrow rather than the distant past or future is not her "putting a positive spin". It's the writer dropping an anvil on your head about what the themes they're writing about are. Hinako needed the hope the promise gave her in order to make an effort to enjoy herself, something she was not able to do before which is what slowly-but-surely leads to her actually enjoying herself. Yes, it's a cruel and twisted kind of hope - it's a twisted and darker kind of yuri story.
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>>4516027
No retard, address my actual point. What do you think 99% of the pages where Shiori is extremely unhappy about the pledge tell you compared to this singular page where she is happy Hinako is still alive and this justifying to herself that this is still a better outcome than the worst one?
>heartfelt arc-ending speech summing up her development thus far about choosing the Hinako of tomorrow rather than the distant past or future is not her "putting a positive spin"
You are insipidly surface and somehow believe that your thoughts are the deep ones. You absolute dullard, I did not say Shiori choosing the present Hinako is in any way related to this. I said her claiming she is happy that Hinako is alive right now because of her pledge is her coping with a bad lot she chose. Yes, she is happy that Hinako has the ability to enjoy herself right now. The manga is not portraying the pledge as a good thing EVER. It just shows Shiori becoming more human and in tune with emotions.

You keep pretending, very stupidly, that this was the only way it could have been done. You are just accepting the outcome and justifying it retroactively. This is not a fact. The entire manga has a very different theme and message. The pledge was a desperate stopgap measure based on a monster's fallible understanding of human emotions. Giving in to dark impulses just to feel a bit better.

Miko has summed up the story's actual message. You can only get better by talking things out and by changing yourself little by little.
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>>4516029
Well, somebody sure is excessively defensive.

>What do you think 99% of the pages where Shiori is extremely unhappy about the pledge tell you

That she's unhappy about the pledge. Something being sad doesn't mean it wasn't your best or only choice. One of the story's main themes is that of remembering and connecting with people through pain, by choosing to bear the scars they cause you rather than letting it close you off. As Shiori herself says, while she truly wishes to not have to eat Hinako, her request that Hinako at least bear the regret of leaving her behind is *also* her sincere desire.

>Miko has summed up the story's actual message. You can only get better by talking things out

That's literally what already Miko tried and failed at, both immediately prior to the new pledge and more generally before Shiori arrived. It doesn't work because Hinako isn't willing to accept that kind of help, and she only becomes willing because she's finally given hope, in the only form she's able to accept. Therapy isn't magical - you can't reach someone who actively does not want to be reached. Could there be some silver bullet of perfect Natural 20 Critical Success With Proficiency Bonus communication that would solve all of that? Sure, maybe, but if there is, *neither* of them have access to it, so it's about as relevant as saying "Beowulf could have survived if only he had a magic sword!". There's a reason Miko has no comeback when Shiori simply asks "what else could I have done?". The narrative is very clear, even going so far as to give direct explicit examples both times, about telling you that having the promise as something to hope for is what allows her to start improving and accepting help and communication in the first place - you can disagree with that, but that's not the manga's framing, that's having your own thoughts about its narrative.
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>>4516034
>Something being sad doesn't mean it wasn't your best or only choice
Which this wasn't.
>Miko tried and failed
No she didn't. She never had the capacity to do this as much as she wanted, because she is responsible for everyoen not just Hinako and couldn't apporach her as much because of her hunger.
Also, and I have already explained this enough, Shiori has a direcrt connection to Hinako that Miko doesn't have. Miko understands that Shiori's help is needed to heal Hinako. But it can only be done by Shiori understanding human emotions better and forming a proper bond. Miko has immensely helped Hinako, but Shiori is in love with Hinako and willing to give everything to her.
>the story says it was right because it worked!
No it doesn't. It only says that this stopgap measure was the only solution Shiori could come up with.

Again, you are shallow as fuck. I will say it again, there is no way to heal Hinako in one conversation. There is literally no solution to that, especially not that retarded pledge. But Shiolri could have convinced Hinako not try to kill herself that day and could have spoken to her about her feelings and understand where Hinako is coming from. She didn't and couldn't.

You keep confusing the band-aid with the cure. It's pathetic.
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I want more Watatabe High School shorts.
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Next thread >>4516356
Can't believe we already hit bottom of page 10.

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