>>58835537
I think UBs were worse desu

>>58835537
Yes. Just take a look at VGC and OU.

yes and that one in particular is one of the best points in favor of his argument. they added shit to jigglypuff and called it a new character.

>>58835537
Most of them were.

I miss the guy who says paradox mons were a mistake. I sometimes larp as him but I cannot be on 4chan 24/7 because I actually have a life.

>>58835572
You should leave completely already

>>58835572
If you even know what vp is you never had a life to begin with coper

>>58835589
people always want to pretend they are better than they really are. If they admitted they are human garbage, they would have to kill themselves.

>>58835537
yes and he's also very based

>>58835542
also based

>>58835537
They completely overstayed their welcome, we absolutely did not need 20 of them.

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>>58835537
no

>>58835542
I cant wait for a Sun and Moon revisit so that we can get more ultra beasts...

They might be setting up an entire region in the untra space...

Great Tusk should've just been Mega Donphan.

>>58835537
Paradoxies were a mistake, yes. The worst part of it is I keep seeing fanart of paradoxies based on more interesting concepts but the ones we ended up getting are almost entirely complete and total shit.

>>58835542
UBs were aggressively different... I don't like most of them, either. But some of them felt like very fair excuses to make designs a little more extreme than pokemon designs normally go. Buzzwole and Pheromosa are great in my opinion, and I personally quite like Poipole and Naganadel. I also think Guzzlord and Nihilego are fun. But in my opinion, they would have ALL been better off just being normal mons. Give Guzzlord 2 prevos and make him a second pseudo for the region, make Buzzwole and Pheromosa each have a prevo and an alt evo for the male versions that they currently don't have, and you could probably just upgrade nihilego into either a very rare mon or, if you want the plot to be based on it still, make it a bona fide legendary instead of its ambiguous state it's in now. If you gave slight redesigns to xurkitree, stakataka, blacephalon, and heck a bit more aggressive redesigns for celesteela and kartana, they'd all be great NORMAL pokemon THAT YOU COULD CATCH AND USE IN THE GAME INSTEAD OF BEING POST-GAME ONLY god I hate that so many mons are just filler by virtue of not being usable in the game itself kill whoever at gamefreak keeps arguing about adding mythicals and post-game exclusive mons. God I hate it so much. These games are such shit.

>>58835537
Paradox mons were a cool idea with mostly bad execution
>>58835542
UBs were just a bad idea

>>58837163
it'd still be a mistake

I don't like the past Paradox pokemon but the future ones are nice.

>>58835546
also based

>>58837188
I kinda wish the Future ones got better names desu. Iron Valiant is fine but the others are kinda meh to me.

>>58835537
yes and what he does is also right

>>58835537
>>58838498
The names stick out too much

>>58835537
mega evolutions
regional forms
ubs
gmax forms
paradox mons
all should be deleted and the focus should go back to giving cross gen pre/evolutions

>>58840305
megas and regionals can stay so long as they don't limit options for the line otherwise. Chimecho or Banette should be able to get a proper evo for example, and Mr. Mime or Farfetch'd should be able to have a different evo. Etc

>>58840305
definitely based

>>58840466
no
all gimmickshit should be deleted
convergent forms too

>>58835537
paradox mons are hardly much different from regional forms, just essentially ancient/future forms. I'd prefer they create them sparingly, but as long as they don't constantly try to make some weird lore addition to justify the existence of their next iteration (like a parallel universe mon) then i don't have much of an issue.

>>58837188
>Put the post game in the regular game!!
>Where's my postgame?

>>58841153
They’re actually better than regional replacements since they don’t trigger the species clause.
You can use both roaring moon and salamence in your team
you can’t use both goodra and his powercreeped diaper wearing replacement tho.

>>58841306
pokemon hasn't had real postgame since 2013
beyond that, I never even cared much for the postgame anyway, and it would bolster their shitty tiny rosters of usable new mons. At least we're past the absolutely dreadful mon numbers from gen 6 and 7

>>58835550
half based

>>58835550
it'd still be cancer even if it looked differenet

>>58843384
>cancer
You mean... a mistake...

>>58835537
Why don't any of them evolve? Do they rely on evolution methods that don't exist in the present?

>>58835537
Yeah. UBs were better

>>58844441
Gamefreak just didn't think about it.

>>58844449
Or anything else

>>58837188
>But in my opinion, they would have ALL been better off just being normal mons
I'm so glad braindead niggers like you will never work at Game Freak, this is beyond retarded.

>>58845136
Why is that "beyond retarded"? The only differences would be:
>usable in the normal game, might have prevos or evos depending
>no special association with a legendary or alternate world or whatever that precludes their appearances in future dexes
>uhhhhhhhhhh.... slight rewrite of the plotline? I guess?
Is there anything I'm missing? Because those don't seem like compelling reasons to make 11 legendaries that just sit there and do nothing like always.

>>58845276
>usable in the normal game
Why aren't they usable in the normal game?

>>58845281
because you can't catch and use them til postgame? Don't be disingenuous, it makes you look like a retard, and makes other people disagree with you more.

>>58844449
If I were gamefreak I would have made ancient igglybuff look the same as modern igglybuff but with a different name and stats.

>>58845136
You mean the company that started importing pajeets recently?

>>58845532
just give it a flintstones outfit and a club
that's a reference so it's ok

>>58840305
Ultra based

>>58835537
always

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walking wake is cool and so is flutter mane

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>>58837188
Regarding designs it's the other way around for me actually. They made the choice to present the UBs as this enigmatic group of cryptic bizarre aliens, then they should've doubled down on that concept. I like the more abstract, faceless ones like Stakatata, Xurkitree, Celesteela. I do like Buzzwole too and I don't mind the diversity in their weirdness, but they should've made more even weirder monstrosities.

What I really agree with though is they should stop locking mons behind post-game only and let them fucking usable in the actual story / campaign. Make them like the titans or totems: As mini-bosses you encounter throughout the game story, that you can catch and use. That would be cool. Exclusive like Rotom but catchable and usable in-game.

>>58848257
>They made the choice to present the UBs as this enigmatic group of cryptic bizarre aliens, then they should've doubled down on that concept
Yeah as of now theres nowhere near enough to distinguish them from regular pokemon. Design wise, what makes Guzzlord or Naganadel UBs when Sigilyph, Palkia, Glimmora, Zygarde, Claydol, etc. are ordinary pokemon?

>>58835537
The Past ones could've worked if they were all like the past forms of Raikou, Entei and Suicune (forgot their specific names) where they're prehistoric creatures with design elements from present Pokémon instead of just taking a present Pokémon and making it a caveman.
The Future 'mons are kinda unsalvageable I think though, you can only make "Pokémon but it's a robot" so interesting.
I wonder if the Past 'mons were deliberately sabotaged so as to not make them overshadow the crappy robots.

Also, give them normal names. The Ultra Beasts got normal names, so why can't they?

>>58848811
they should have just made paradox forms of existing mons instead of making them existing mons. "Iron Jugulis form Hydreigon" or "Iron Valiant form Gardevoir or Gallade" or "Great Tusk form Donphan" would have been more interesting and novel than what we got.

>>58835537
always was
always will be

>>58848885
any forms are still mistakes

>>58835546
And how do I do that without my eyes bleeding?

>>58835542
UBs are why I'm still here.

>>58851758
But they got dexcut

>>58852716
silver linings i guess

>>58852716
And that's a good thing

>>58848811
The three dogs weren't dinosaurs and couldn't have been dinosaurs since they were specifically created/resurrected by Ho-oh. Hence the term paradox.

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>>58848811
>you can only make "Pokémon but it's a robot" so interesting.
I'm baffled they didn't reference speculative evolution at all. Japs adore dougal dixon. Picrel as a poison/dark crobat future paradoxie is just kind of obvious imo, and it would have been to them I thought. They're in the exact age bracket to have been interested in and seen this growing up.

>>58845458
Based

If they got new names I'd be fine with most of the past paradox pokemon.
The future paradox pokemon on the other hand are complete garbage no matter what you do to them.

>>58854271
I get that canonically they actually aren't strictly from the past/future but rather from alternate realities, everyone just calls them "past/future forms" for simplicity's sake.

The Pokedex ends at celebi anything else is gay fanfic

>>58855628
Almost based

>>58837188
Buzzwole is so fucking ugly and I hate it. Worst design ever. It's on the same level as the stupid pepper bird from Paldea, and the diaper bird from Unova.

>>58856487
>pepper bird from Paldea
?

>>58854271
>since they were specifically created/resurrected by Ho-oh
Wrong

>>58854271
>since they were specifically created/resurrected by Ho-oh
Right

>>58854271
>since they were specifically created/resurrected by Ho-oh
Left

>>58845458
> because you can't catch and use them til postgame?
so just like 50% of the jotho dex?

>>58858465
Is that supposes to imply that it isn't a problem? It's a problem for Johto too. Just different flavors of the same issue.

>>58858833
It's just the usual whuddabout Johto or Unova

>>58835537
yes, just look what happened above

>>58858465
>jotho

>>58837188
>But in my opinion, they would have ALL been better off just being normal mons. Give Guzzlord 2 prevos and make him a second pseudo for the region
This is retarded

>>58860573
why would having another normal pokemon you could use in-game be retarded? Just make it a rare spawn outside po town, or along poni coast maybe.

>>58860777
>why would having another normal pokemon you could use in-game be retarded?
because I'm paid to insist everything is fine

>UBs (Space)
>Paradoxes (Time, kinda)
What's the next group gonna be? Sea monsters?

>>58861788
cryptids.

>>58835537
Sure is

>>58861788
something even worse

>>58835542
The only difference between them is character design really.

>>58835537
i want to fuck it

>>58852716
Only a few hundred more shitty designs to go

>>58864121
8 isn't a few

Not really. If they did not exist some other Totally-not-Legendary or regular Legendary batch of Pokemon would take the place of like, Flutter Mane or Iron Hands or whatever. Such a group would probably not rely on weather and terrain though.

>>58865253
>No you see Gamefreak HAS to shit on their plate, they can't simply NOT do that!
Come on nigger

>>58865540
Based

>>58835537
Yes. Horrible idea with horrible execution.

>>58866273
Super based

>>58835537
yes and he's also a supergenius
posting in zhawnberg threads to avoid getting banned lol

>>58835546
If I looked at any of that shit I'd get even madder

>>58835537
no bc they added slither wing

>>58835546
this
any "design" problems can be solved if you just don't touch them
but the only way to stop them from being a problem competitively is to delete them all

>>58868472
which should have either been a standalone mon or an alt evo for larvesta instead of a paradoxie

>>58835537
I didn't like them at first but they've grown on me, I especially like Iron Hands cause it's a pimped out Hariyama who's also a mon I really like and IH makes Trick Room a legit strategy in gen 9 singles, f iron thorns and iron fugliuis though. Great Tusk is cool but it should've been a Donphan evo rather than an ancient form

>>58835542
fpwp

I was wondering how long until that "grown on me" shit showed up here

>>58840305
>cross gen pre/evolutions
You're a fucking dickbreath retard.

>>58848811
>Also, give them normal names. The Ultra Beasts got normal names, so why can't they?
Because that's how cavemen described things they didn't understand. They didn't name them outright, "Oh I'm gonna call that little shitter a Pikachu", what's a Pikachu? You look at it and related it to other things.

>>58871529
Absolute nonsense at every level
>not literal ancient mons
>mons can have ancient names that aren't related to modern ones, like Keokeo for a. vulpix
>irl animal names aren't purely descriptive, even going back to prehistory
>TPCi giving them special snowflake names breaks literally 1000 other mons' worth of naming convention
>future paradoxies have shitcanned bullshit names too

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>>58871631
>>TPCi giving them special snowflake names breaks literally 1000 other mons' worth of naming convention

>>58871707
There are still 1000 more mons with normal names. 1 exception doesn't break the rule. I've been saying type null needed a normal name since sm came out.

>>58872266
The paradox mons are not normal Pokemon, why should they have normal names?

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Nah always liked them, although some of them should be branch off evolution forms like Mamoswine but I get that they're their own thing.

>>58872289
Are you really going to argue in circles about this? These non-names are bad. They are clunky, stupid, lazy, unfitting thematically, unfitting canonically, unfitting compared to their peers both with regards to all pokemon overall and their nearest sister group the UBs, are unmemorable, are surface-level observations, are nonsensical, and do not encourage people to view them as anything other than a failure. Which they are. The names are objectively bad. Also reminder that they made the term "jugulis" completely from the aether, not even bothering to use an existing latin conjugation, or at least using a straightforward translation from japanese.
What a disgrace.

>>58871514
no u

>>58872289
So they shouldn't be in the 'dex either. Shouldn't have pokedex numbers. And definitely shouldn't be in competitive.

>>58872325
Based

>>58835537
yes but i'm even more right

>>58841144
Ultra based

>>58835542
>UB hate with many reolies agreeing
this board has become such a fagfest

>>58875916
wtf are reolies

>>58835537
certainly

>>58835542
No way. UBs were cool, being weird aliens that stretched the boundary of what would be considered a pokemon, and they utilized Pokémon’s shift to 3D by being well animated and expressive. Paradoxes add to the pile of indistinguishable nostalgiaslop because Gamefreak realized they can coast off of drawing 1-2 details on finished designs (or just lowering the polygon count in the case of Iron Jugulis) and retards will eat them up. Expect AI generated pokemon in the future that look less modeled than Baxcalibur.

>>58835572
so you're saying life makes you weak

>>58835537
fucking awful waste of dex space.

>>58878924
Hyper based

>>58835537
without a doubt

>>58835537
>existing Pokemon but robot and named "Iron ____"
Future Paradox were a mistake, mostly.
>existing Pokemon but feral and distinct names
Past paradox were mostly pretty okay.

>>58876899
replies

>>58876899
realies

>>58876899
reelies

>>58880817
This. Future ones could have been fine if they worked on it a bit and gave them unique names.

>>58835537
Yeah
There's a tiny portion of them I think are neat, most of them are just super trash.
They should have done more of the like, not-regionals like Wugtrio if they wanted to be lazy.

>>58880817
Iron Valient is a neat idea.
The rest are dogshit.
I will never not be pissed that Iron Hydreigon isn't the original, scrapped tank idea, or mecha king ghidora, but a fucking pool toy

>>58835537
>Valient
lol that's what these mistakes are supposed to appeal to

>>58835537
always will be
gayfreak's just gonna make the same mistakes again

>>58835537
yes

>>58885829
Holy based

>>58835546
spbp

>>58835537
undoubtedly

>>58878026
>that stretched the boundary of what would be considered a pokemon
You mean they created a bunch of trash designs and used m-muh other worlds as an excuse for how shit they were.

>>58888007
Unbelievably based

>>58885829
lol

>>58835546
Super spbp

>>58835537
definitely

>>58835537
Mistaketard deserves to ROT

>>58835537
Mistakegenius deserves to be EMPEROR

>>58888007
buzzwole, pheromosa, guzzlord, nihilego, poipole, naganadel, and stakataka were good though. And all the rest weren't really terrible, the only ones I truly dislike are celesteela and kartana.

>>58835546
Hyper spbp

>>58835537
of course

>>58891652
None of those were good barring Pheromosa and that’s because it doesn’t look that strange at all. Also
>Guzzlord
Jesus Christ. Leave the franchise already.

>>58893276
Your taste is just shit. Sorry you had to find out this way.

>>58893276
Your taste is just based. That rhymes so it's better.

>>58893276
>Pheromosa
that's all I needed to know

>>58835546
Mega fpbp

>>58835537
you betcha

>>58893276
Jesus left the franchise long ago

>>58835537
The names are a mistake as none of them sound like Pokemon