Because you have.
Gen 9 VGC has been absolute fucking disaster thanks to all the ridiculous power creep.

>>58849540
does everyone need gholdengo no matter what? it seems like it but I don't even know why it's so good. just ridiculous stats and moves that are better than everything else? I hate when power creep is literally just LOL THE STATS ARE BETTER AND DO MORE DAMAGE THAN EVERYTHING ELSE BEFORE IT.

>>58849514
soon Pokemon will be the good old No items, Fox only, Final Destination, everyone with the same team of 6 of the same pokemon with the same moves

Then we'll truly get into the one TRUE meta, when we drop the game and just beat the living shit of eachother with our fists

>>58849552
It has one of the best typings in the game, broken as fuck signature move, and a fanfic-tier ability.

>>58849590
what the fuck were they thinking? and on top of everything it looks stupid as fuck.

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roaring moon gholdengo amoongus ogerpon

Legendaries were a mistake, Reg H was way more interesting

>>58849540
Only started being mildly interested in VGC again with Champions being a thing soon, but didn’t Sword and Shield also bring in some busted Pokemon?

>>58849633
It was not.
That was just Ursa B, Gholdengo, Sneasler, and a select few other mons. Just as centralized.

>>58849594
it's only good because the actually good stuff is banned right now

>>58849661
Reg H at least had some variety. Every team feels samey in this reg.

>>58849680
Well yeah they all have the same roles, but I can't complain when a fucking Okidogi(+ Entei) made top cut, that's stupid.
The only thing worth complaining about is Bolt balance teams.
I hope Paul loses this match.

i thought this guys name was like a play on pikachu + hawktua but it's his actual last name

>cat
>monke
>urshifu
every battle man

>>58849696
Sadly, justin lookin shook.

Pokemon Champions will save us.

please kill pauls team
amen

>he's only been playing a few years they said
kek because you only need the last couple games to get pokemon that rape everything else

>>58849514
That's just competitive gaming in general and why I don't care to "git gud"

>>58849514
Vgc sucks. The worst part of the by shill dlc was having to wait 10,000 years for all the animations to stop playing

>>58849540
t. VGC player since gen 6

it's not even the power creep, if it was power creep at least you'd have pokémon nuking each other which would give battles some semblance of thrill

it's the proliferation of fake out switch out balanceslop that turns games into a snoozefest

Incineroar needs to lose parting shot and rilla needs to lose fake out and u-turn. I can live with Incin keeping those, gen 7 wasn't too bad with only one mon having that toolset. Parting shot sapping your offenses every other turn is cancer though.

>>58849514
that's because it is, vgc is fucking boring

Every team in this reg is just some permutation of the following:
>Incineroar
>Urshifu
>Rillaboom
>Ogerpon
>Amoonguss
>Gholdengo
>Landorus
>Paradox Pokemon

Prove me wrong.

>>58850197
It’s not even just them though. The proliferation U-Turn and Fake-Out is nuts. I really don’t know why the former has been given to a shitload of Pokémon when Volt Switch has, for the most part, stayed exclusive to Electric Pokemon despite doing the same thing.

>>58849594
>what the fuck were they thinking?
They were thinking it would be extremely funny if Pokemon #1000 was a "lol look at how rich you made us!" joke while also making it one of the most powerful Non-Legendary Pokemon in the game.

>>58849552
It's basically gen 3 milotic hard to get tier with gen 2 gyarados prowness

>>58850505
Gen 2 Gyarados sucked ass, anon

>>58850508
snorlax ownz

>>58849752
You're forgetting the electric brontosaurus that Bolt-Balance gets its named from.

>>58850197
Rillaboom keeping Fake Out is fine. I do agree Fake Out + pivot moves on any Pokemon, much less ones with abilities that activate on switch in is just too much. There needs to be a cost to resetting Fake Out, and Parting Shot and U Turn make that "cost" a gain.

>>58850125
There's no soul to be had in copy/pasting the same slop every other min/maxing sperg uses. I can't bring myself to do that shit in literally any game with a wide variety of options and it tends to be more fun that way. I only wish I could see the look on the sweats' faces when their Fluttershits and Urshitfus get folded by something like Slaking or whatever the fuck I queue up in ranked with

>>58851176
It's not that non-meta teams can't compete with meta team, they are just at a disadvantage. Pokemon is a game where role compression gives you an advantage. A Pokemon that can bring multiple forms of utility or deal a large amount of damage to a large number of opponents is better than one with a more niche focus. Yes, Slaking can hit hard, but it requires you to bring a partner to disable Truant and either spend a turn doing so or just be Wheezing. Meanwhile a Pokemon like Flutter Mane or Urshifu can deal nearly as much damage as Slaking, but without that drawback, giving you much more versatility in where you can use it. That leads to situations where a Slaking team can get pinned and have to rely on luck, reads, or their opponents' mistakes where a traditional meta team could win without those and just with safe, smart plays. Over the course of 100 games, that means a higher win rate, which, if you're playing ranked, is your actual goal.

>>58850197
>>t. VGC player since gen 6
Oh, please.
You say it like if Gen 5 and Gen 4 VGCs were super duper ultra mega hyper giga developed long-standing metas or something.
3/4 of Gen 4 VGC was a meme featuring explosion and the one time it was not was a GS Cup with rules so wacky it's never been done again and Gen 5 was goodstuffs left and right.
If you're gonna shitpost me while trying to parade yourself as a oldfag at least say gen 8 or something. Do you seriously not realize how fucking old gen 6 is at this point?

>if it was power creep at least you'd have pokémon nuking each other which would give battles some semblance of thrill
Oh boy I oneshot you, you oneshot me, I oneshot you, you oneshot me, gg ez.
What the fuck is thrilling about that?
And we already had that too, it's called Reg I, and it was fucking buns.

Mind you, I don't disagree with you in that fake out/pivot spam is also not part of the cancer, but it's undeniable that Gen 9 powercreep and some cancers from Gen 8 like Urshifu, that were ironically enough curbed thanks to Mememax, haven't made the game unfun as hell.

>>58849514
I pray that Champions does some actual balance changes or every format involving legendaries will continue to be the same shitshow.

Weirdly enough, this is kind of why I like the competitive format in Legends ZA. Like, you still have the top tier of Pokémon and several similar teams but stuff like positioning and timing matter and you can win vs. a copy/paste team by using good tactics. They should make it a part of VGC, it'd be way more entertaining to watch IMO

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>>58851359
>If you're gonna shitpost
projecting? what a schizo reaction this whole comment, only makes sense if you're shitposting yourself.

>What the fuck is thrilling about that?
as opposed to fake out, switch, fake out, switch, switch, switch, fake out, fake out, switch

>>58849552
gholdengo was stupid in reg H, but I feel like in reg F the ruins keep it at bay to some extent. Of course it's very good, just not horribly broken. It won this weekend but won't win every major.

>>58851386
It would have to be a separate circuit, because it's a whole different game. But I'm all for it.

just limit uturn to bugs

Remove Urshitfu

That's it

>>58849778
I sure hope so
>dynamic regulations as opposed to a few additions every time
>singleplayer stuff like PBR/Stadium
>balance patches
VGC being relegated to a platform they never want to update in the middle of has always been ridiculously terrible

Worlds 25 was really good, wide variety of teams in the double restricted format.
Ho-Oh made top 16, horses didn't win.
Giovanni put on a masterclass and if you haven't watched the finals then you should.

>>58851497
>projecting
No, I'm just calling you a retard for trying to parade yourself as le heckin' oldfag.

>as opposed to fake out, switch, fake out, switch, switch, switch, fake out, fake out, switch
That's shit too. I agreed with you in that regard. Both things can be true at the same time. Can't you read?

VGC has always been poopoo

How do I get into vgc

>>58852498
Pokémon Showdown is your best bet until Champions comes out. There’s also a lot of VGC Poketubers on YouTube you can watch if you want.

>>58852498
get a rental team and just start playing on ladder, in-game or on showdown. the in-game ladder doesnt match the format at irl tournaments right now (its reg I, which includes box legends, whereas the irl format is reg F, which doesnt. you can play either on showdown, and can also do best of 3 on there, but id stick to best of 1 since open team sheets wont do anything for you if you dont have the game knowledge to make sense of the info and best of 1 is better for spamming games faster), but for starting out really you just want to get a feel for how the game actually plays if your only previous experience is fights in a story playthrough.

id pick a team with a pretty defined form of speed control (trick room or tailwind) so you get a sense for the importance of setup as well as learning pokemons' speed tiers (very slow pokemon will stick out as they underspeed you in trick room, and very fast pokemon will do the same in tailwind). id give you free elo laddering team but its a bit gimmicky and probably not good for a beginner, but if you want i can throw something rough together for you

its really just a case of playing a ton of games, getting a feel for whats important in doubles, getting a feel for what the different meta relevant pokemon do and how fast they are, and getting a sense of the type of team you like to play. once you have all that down, look for a specific rental that fits your playstyle (still dont make one yourself, thats something you dont want to do until youre more experienced) and start going into matchups thinking about actual strategy and the lines you can take to try and win consistently. like basically for now dont even think that much about making predictions or trying to win, you literally just need to see a lot of pokemon in battle to get a feel for what they do since playing vgc requires a shitload of game knowledge

>>58852498
Just to start? You can play some of the random showdown doubles to get a little of the hang of it, then just use/rent a team from the sample thread and play on cart or showdown

>>58852532
also, id add reg I is probably vastly better for a beginner anyway. the power levels in a format with restricteds tend to be much higher but that kind of play-around-your-big-hitters playstyle gives beginners a focal point to latch onto, meanwhile reg F is slow, positioning-centric ass cancer

>>58852498
at this point just wait for Champions

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>>58849552
A team without Gholdengo or a way to deal with Gholdengo is actively throwing, yes. It has an extremely powerful spread move as its signature and its ability makes it immune to all status moves, meaning it cant ever be disrupted and usually the only way to deal with it often just involves killing it, which is also easier said than done because its also incredibly bulky on top of all that.

reg H was slop reg F is slop. champions save us

Z-A helped me realize how much I did not enjoy VGC

>>58854911
I had the complete opposite experience.
ZA is so shallow with so many mechanical problems that I wouldn't ever want that to be the battle system going forward.
VGC is many things, but shallow it is not.

vgc is like watching the metapod vs metapod match in early anime

>>58855951
because only real trainers understand the intensity?

>>58854911
>>58855951
insane self reports

>>58849514
yess yesss come to the dark side. we have heavy duty boots and suspect tests

>>58849514
Based

>>58849514
Scarlet and Violet are almost 4 years old and they've been repeating the same formats for a while now

>>58855240
This. As terrible as the rest of the game and franchise is, VGC is the perfect blend of basically chess + poker that makes for a super addictive, super engaging game. You're bluffing and posturing; you see the board state and are trying to fulfil your win condition while denying you opponent's. There is no other game like it and no two battles are the same.

>>58856861
Unironically did this back in Gen 8 and haven’t looked back. Love Singles

>>58858787
Also based

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>>58849552
>I have a very flimsy understanding of things
>I hate when my understanding is flimsy!

>>58859728
wrong

>>58849514
right

If it makes anyone feel better, at least Bolt Balance didn't win Toronto.
Jack Clarke with Entei and Okidogi took 3rd. Tang took Regidrago to 4th.
It was a fine tournament, hopefully we see less Raging Bolt.
The reason Gholdengo is so common right now is because of the prevalence of Fluttermane and the Fairy Tera on Bolt. If we ever see those dip in usage, then the gold surfer will too.

>>58858721
I don’t want my Pokemon battles to feel like chess or poker, I want them to feel like Pokemon battles

>>58849552
You’re trolling if you’re not running it. A lot of tools are viable in VGC but you really need to have a good reason not to run a lot of the staples.

>>58861039
which is bad game design

This regulation is particularly gay, funnily enough if you rule legendaries out the meta stales even more

>>58861037
You don't know what Pokemon battles are.

>>58861085
Reg H was definitely thst way.

>>58861096
I do now

>>58849552
Make It Rain, can't be traditionally put to sleep, ghost so can't be Fake'd Out, has bulk to do some stupid shit like a Nasty Plot setup or just immediately burst with damage items and wreck. Offensive Steel is a sprcial place where few things resist you and you resist much of the game, and because you are a special attacker that is even less accounted for in the meta, and your Ghost typing counters any Fighting coverage that would otherwise love to hit your Steel.

>>58861037
Two people slapping each other halfassed?

its crazy how sv's restricted formats were some of the best and most varied weve ever had and then its non restricted formats sucked complete and total ass

>>58861182
maybe a little variety and imagination instead of "you do this or you lose"

>>58861209
Isn’t that always the case though?

>>58861182
Double battles are over 20 years old and they’re still making items and abilities in attempts to not make physical attackers DoA because of one insanely free ability, instead of just fixing the fact that it’s free as hell. Don’t tell me shit about half-assed.

>>58861082
Based

>>58861209
They were really pretty good, even at Worlds, I never felt like the meta was solved.
>>58861256
Someone used fucking Golduck in reg H, if you want to use something, then the only thing stopping it is you.
Find a pokemon, check and see if it fills a role or build a team around it.

>>58861000
>Jack Clarke with Entei and Okidogi took 3rd
this would be based if he werent from the jamie boyt group of le quirky teambuilders. boyt especially has a hilariously overinflated ego

>>58863160
I know effectively nothing about them, but if they're willing to flirt with the line between closed-sheet teams in a Bo3 open-sheet format, then I'm willing to throw a little support behind them.

>>58863167
tbf i dont know much about clarke, he might be alright. boyts an absolute wanker though. cant hide his smugness even when hes casting, and if you watch his youtube channel its just a constant stream of "i am the best ev trainer/predictor/teambuilder/whatever in the world" (took me a while to realise it was unironic) and shitting on the teams of everyone else he comes across.

ive also heard hes not particularly well liked within the pro scene, but take that with a grain of salt since it was like 3rd hand

>>58863181
Boyt has 2 regionals to his name.
I would be much quieter if I were him.
That Paul Chua guy had 6 wins with a pretty normal Bolt Balance team.

If we can keep this thread alive, Birmingham Regionals starts in 19~ hours.
It will be live here:
https://www.youtube.com/live/BYQ5xNaftjo

>>58863192
paul chua is generally regarded as one of the best balance players in the world. i dont like it as an archetype and you can sometimes just lose on matchup like he did in toronto, but hes fucking good at it regardless

>>58863195
i considered going to birmingham, but whenever i think about going to one of these it comes back to the fact that if im spending time and money on travelling, there are infinite places id rather go than a convention centre full of people who dont know what deodorant is. im sure i would end up enjoying it. maybe if they have one closer to me. and in a format other than reg F

>>58863200
I have high hopes for Champions.
2014 was the first time I tried doubles thanks to the relative ease of breeding competitive mons. Huge variety in teams.

>>58849514
Peak VGC is when the list of available pokémon is limited
The moment you go national, and go forbid, allow restricted pokémon, it goes to the shitter

>>58863256
>t. never played the games

>>58863287
In anon's defense, 2016 and 2019 were not good restricted formats because primals and Xerneas ruled the roost.
2015 was also not a great meta, by comparison reg F is a godly meta.

>>58863317
true, but that still kinda proves the point. its not about the bans or lack thereof, its just about the overall balance of the pokemon allowed. SV's restricted formats were great because there were enough pokemon on the same level of busted that you had a lot of freedom to make teams, unlike xerneas formats where the gay deer was mandatory. and conversely, sv's non-restricted formats have been dominated by the same obnoxious core thats just far stronger than everything else. its not a question of the size of the banlist, its just whether or not the strongest pokemon in a format are a tiny cabal of powerhouses that sit far above everything else

>>58863160
Goalposts?

>>58863328
winning with off-meta teams is cool i just dont like jamie boyt. read the other posts

It will be interesting to see if we have a tera+mega format or just mega.
We can't even really speculate on potential teams because we don't know what's going to be in or not.
I'm most excited to try a ZardY protosynthesis team, but I suspect those won't be allowed until 2027.

>>58863384
im sure well get mixed-gimmick formats but it wont be anytime soon. well have megas until gen 10 then a solid year or two of shilling the gen 10 gimmick

>>58863195
looks gay

>>58861508
The problem is there's also 20 years worth of base attack 130+ physical attackers using 100-120 bp moves. Physical attackers are balanced around Intimidate and the empirical testing speaks for itself. The majority of top VGC Pokemon are physical attackers.

>>58864842
I appreciate you bumping anon. That was a long time without a post and I was busy.

Yuma Kinugawa's LAIC winning Hisuian Typhlosion will be distributed via code through the Birmingham(685 players) broadcast.
I also forgot that there's a smaller tournament in Merida(191 players) going on at the same time.

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FlutterGODS

This is why competitive will never be a replacement for battle facilities, regardless of what shills say.

>its the caster with the annoying voice

>>58866247
that doesn't narrow it down at all

>>58863256
2017 and 2014 were kino

>>58866939
the woman. shes fucking retarded as well, kept making mistakes. at one point she seemingly just misread the team sheet and started confidently talking about how cool and unique a choice it was to run focus band on chien pao (it was focus sash)

>>58866991
uh oh i thought it was supposed to be a w*myn's franchise now

>>58849634
>but didn’t Sword and Shield also bring in some busted Pokemon?
SWSH had a lot of busted mons, but SV had way more than any other generation.

>>58861037
Based

>>58865671
Girlypop x 3
Bara x 5
Long neck x 2

Amoongus and Chien Pao are cool.

>>58849552
Garchomp would keep it in check but that faggot rillaboom exists

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>>58866991
shes doing it again
>this indeedee does not carry trick room
>this indeedee has no way to reverse marcos trick room

>>58851627
So they will can add "spinning flame" for incineroar and "whip swing" for rillaboom to stab while rotating?

>doubles players complaining about cat monkey switching in and out
>still refuse to play stealth rock and spikes to punish them
>just keep bitching about fake out rotations

>>58868705
>what is opportunity cost

>>58868995
>wahhh my opponents keep switching
>no I'm not gonna use the game's built in mechanic to fuck up switches because opportunity cost even though it also breaks sash/sturdy and multiscale

>>58869036
doubles games dont run long enough for rocks to be worth it. the chip from a couple of switches doesnt offer more value than just clicking damaging moves to catch the incoming mon on switch in

>>58869066
>oh noes the opponent switched in Dragonite now I have to double up into it to break its multiscale and to kill it
>Dragonite used Protect
;)
I understand the fundamentals about double games lasting shorter turns and only hitting 4 vs hitting 6 and switching used to be less common in doubles vs singles but can you still say the same now when a good 80% is running that cat and another 50% running the monkey. There is an equilibrium point where the opportunity cost is worth it and I believe we have hit it.

>>58869075
Look if you are so narcissistic to believe that all vgc players are sleeping on hazards, then you can go put some teams at the top using those hazards.
You're not the first person to think about it or be dumb enough to try it.

>>58869066
I've always heard this and I can understand the hesitance to run it when according to >>58865671 only like a quarter of the top 12 would really feel its presence, but now I really see someone bring it in just to see how it will perform.

>>58869134
The main issue is that there are plenty of meta mons that have ways around intimidate and/or fake out.
The only teams that are alleged to be susceptable to hazards are balance teams. Roll the clock back to last week st Toronto and look at the top teams.
https://www.pokedata.ovh/standingsVGC/0000164/masters/
How much balance do you actually see in the top 10?
Paul Chua, obviously but maybe you consider Zheng's team balance?
Not many of these teams are actually a standard balance team. They have other modes they can play.

>>58868705
Hazards are actually starting to get played more in VGC nowadays in the form of toxic spikes, mainly because of Glimmora and its ability. Although it is worth noting that a Garganacl hazard stall team with stealth rocks actually managed to win a recent regional alongside an eviolite Scyther and Wish Yawn Sylveon

>>58869174
I remember Toxic spikes making appearance on "stall" teams in Reg I with Ho-Oh and Eternatus for example, but I can't think of any pokemon bulky enough to do this in reg H or F.
I certainly haven't seen anyone attempt this recently and to the extent it is tried, it's incidental spikes from Glimmora.

>>58869174
the fact mott has absolutely jobbed at every subsequent event makes me think his one win was a fluke and his garg shenanigans need to just be left in the builder

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>>58869222
>but I can't think of any pokemon bulky enough to do this in reg H
It is pretty much just Garganacl in Reg H. Picrel was the winning team to the 2025 Monterrey Regionals I mentioned earlier, though honestly a large part of its success is due to the fact that it was an anti-meta pick running a fairly unconventional set in that tourney. With Tera Flying it basically walled half the Pokemon in the format with only a few select ones that can break through recover that can be easily removed by your teammates. Just look at the mons being used by the top teams and you'll see what I mean.
https://labmaus.net/tournaments/39884

>>58869251
That's the problem with running an anti-meta pick, once your opponents start getting wary it stops being as effective.

>>58869263
>>58869259
As you noted, some teams are just very situational. They work in a time and space that allowed them to succeed.

>>58869259
what a cool team

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What’s the error?

>>58849514
Welcome to compshittery, where one meta is found and defines the entire tournament. This is true for all forms of compshittery and why sweaty compshitters hate Johto.

>>58865671
the diarrhea squad

>>58870974
Wrong ogerpon mask?

>>58864861
>The majority of top VGC Pokemon are Physical attackers
You forgot to add “with some kind of immunity to Intimidate”, which proves my point but that’s okay!

>>58849514
that's what unrestricted powercreep does

>>58872337
https://munchstats.com/
It's hard to be that retarded anon.
You have Dragonite and Entei. You can use the clear amulet from some mons, but that's just for those that like to setup.

>>58871578
Yeah, that’s it. Apparently it’s an easy way to spot people who don’t play VGC, but I struggle to see that beyond a small gotcha kind of thing.

>>58872420
it shows a picture of the mask thats a different mask to the mask the ogerpon has. i think its a mental retardation test, not an "are you a vgc pro?" test

>>58872475
what would one be if it were a vgc pro image

>>58872483
It would have to be much more subtle.

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>>58872483
>>58872487
this is probably still too obvious but it gets closer to knowing actual game mechanics than playing spot the difference

>>58872505
Wasnt this fixed and now its legal

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>>58872505
whoops i forgot to change tera. it wasnt that she had a bad tera lol

>>58872506
it was never illegal, just obtained through a bug before it was added to her normal learnset. thats not it though; its an error with teambuilding rather than an actual mistake on the sheet. theres something about the build that doesnt make sense to run

>>58872512
yeah thats what i ment but also fakeout doesnt work in psychic terrain but it could become clutch once it runs out

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>>58872523
yeah, fake out was it. youd have to time switching in with the psychic terrain running out very deliberately. honestly though indeedee really only needs the first three moves, you could run fake out just for the rillaboom matchup and it probably wouldnt be terrible

heres another for you, probably easier

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>>58872534
fuck i forgot to give him intim

>>58872534
Too easy, should be grass tera instead :^)

>>58872537
tera bug without u-turn?

>>58869075
Add Stealth Rock to a team and try it. If it works, great, you've advanced the meta. I am not sure it will work because the nature of VGC being pick 4 of 6 means against a hazard team the balanced player could just not bring Incin and Rillaboom and focus on the more traditional damage dealing parts of the team.

>>58872534
The Fake Out Indeedee is super niche tech for Rillabooms with no speed investment and Pinchurchin, as well as Wheezing. It pops up time to time, but the opportunity cost is so high, you rarely see it.

>>58872562
You're like 40% there

>>58872537
AV Parting Shot?

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>>58872669
Ding ding ding

I'm not at my PC anymore so no more nice images but here's a pair with something you wouldn't want to run (for the sake of the puzzle, assume it's just these two in a vacuum):

>>58872710
Hatterene is walled by wide guard?

>>58849540
fpbp

>>58856861
ngl the solgaleo test ladder was hilarious with how many people tried their best to make the shitmon work and the fucking answer ended up being
>WP CM Thunderbolt

>>58872969
or magic bounce bouncing heal pulse

>>58872710
Heal Pulse will be reflected by Magic Bounce?

Gen 8 really fucked everything up with urshifu and the horses power creeping like insanity.

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>>58849552
>gholdengo
That thing only exists to appeal to the cuck crowd who wants their wife to give birth to a Yakub baby after being dicked by a BBC bull nine months ago.

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>>58873814
>>58873816
yep
one more, a classic

>>58874430
fuck i forgot abilities again, farig would run armor tail so its not that shes cud chew

>>58872537
>Assault Vest
>Parting Shot
>>58872507
>Indeedee
>Using Fake Out ever
Nice try

>>58859728
Do you know what a question mark means, you stupid fag?

>>58874463
anon i think you maybe missed the point of the game

>>58874430
>Tera Steel
>Tera Fairy

>>58874486
The point of the game is "who the fuck does this in vgc"

>>58874430
cant helping hand gholdengo

>>58849540
>gen 8 vgc was an absolute fucking disaster
>gen 7 vgc was an absolute fucking disaster
>gen 6 vgc was an absolute fucking disaster
Time for you nignogs to realize that competitive pokemon is, and always has been, utter shit.

>>58853928
I wouldn't call it incredibly bulky. You're being a little biased by your fanart, methinks.

>>58874497
Gen 6 vgc was based before oras

>>58874478
No? What is this "question mark" you speak of?

>>58874521
It really was.
I liked 2017 and even 2018 pretty well too. Some Megas that fell off in 2015 found their way back into the meta in 18.
VGC was such a clown show back in 2014 in terms of production and availablility to watch tournaments again. What we have today is so much better.

>>58874430
Honestly, if someone spent time making a bunch of these it might be a fun thread idea.
>>58875273
>2018
Was that when Mega Manectric was good?

>>58874497
Gen 8 was really good, the only season I didn’t enjoy was the one where people were running Talonflame+Porygon Z

>>58875321
>Honestly, if someone spent time making a bunch of these it might be a fun thread idea
I'm glad you liked them, I wasn't sure if people would, especially given that the original was more just a display error. But it seemed like a fun little game and testing knowledge of mechanics felt more like "find the vgc player" than "can you tell two mask images apart"

I might make a thread for it sometime, if I can think up enough ideas

>>58874430
Magic Bounce doesn't reflect Heal Pulse, you're thinking of Good as Gold (which just blocks it). You can use beneficial status moves on Hatterene.

>>58876137
Magic bounce reflects heal pulse, anon

>>58849514
always is

>>58849514
always was

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>>58849514
According to Zheng, these are the top Pokemon in the current format

>>58879551
>Articuno
Is it actually good?

>>58879592
It's the best partner for alolan ninetale

>>58879592
It's like Whimsicott + Terakion Beat Up back in the day. If you know your counterplay to it you're fine, but if you don't lead right it can catch you off guard and you can just lose before you realize you've lost. Specs Ice tera Articuno in the snow behind aura veil will get off 3+ Blizzards, and all it takes is one unlucky freeze or Snow Cloak miss for the team to snowball.

>>58874430
You can't use Helping Hand on Gholdengo, which is one of the funniest interactions in the game

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>>58879614
Just the straight up spread damage it can do in 3 turns is insane.
I ran LO KyuremW with either Abomasnow or A-Nine and had the same effect. You just win if your opponents aren't prepared for weather supremacy or aren't able to outvalue you.

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>>58849514
That’s been a problem for long while

>>58879665
>not prepared for weather supremacy
What do you mean? Isn’t this something everyone prepares for? Or are some teams just bad at it?

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>>58879723
You either use your own weather, speed control, or stall. Usually multiple at once. Choosing which one, two, or three to employ already put you at risk of material loss against this combo.

I can think of 3 scenarios:

1. Ninetale and Articuno is chosen. You switch out to Pelliper or Torkoal. The other Pokemon won't be able to KO Articuno due to Snow's defensive boost and naturally high SDF. I did the calc, two Blizzard kills Torkoal and kills Pelliper in one.

2. Ninetale sets up Aurora Veil. You decide to set up Speed Control to move first. Articuno will survive almost anything due to Snow's property + own's Stats. Finishes it off with two combo Blizzard.

3. Down to only Articuno, but you sac Ninetale for extra snow duration. Snow Cloak make opponent misses or frozen. Allowing you to spam Sheer Cold until it hits.

4. Opponent don't bring it at all, and you overly focused on stop the duo. You lost before it even started.


Essentially Articuno has similar properties to 50/50 Kingambit (https://youtu.be/M2VI9FTzHQY).

It's a Pokemon that seemingly feel like 50/50, but more time than not, yours put into an advantage if you have it on your team

>>58879676
lol

>>58879676
2017 was soulful

>>58879723
Many teams' weather or anti-weather is just Prankster Rain Dance or Sunny Day on Tornadus, a Pokemon weak to Ice. Other dedicated weather setters are Torkoal and Pelliper, Pokemon with very low special defense, Politoed, a bulky Pokemon, but it's Rillaboom and Ogerpon, and TTar which is a huge tera hog. Plus, there's the obvious elephant in the room, THEY DON'T HAVE TO RUN ICE. They get four other Pokemon. They could lead Landous, Arcanine, Raging Bolt, etc. You could index really heavily on anti-weather and lose to whatever else their team has. Those two alone work great in 2-2-2 teams.

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>>58881208
Rate the team. I'm not planning on running this on locals tho, thinking into cooking a team with Shell Armor Torterra Wide Guard.

>>58879551
Is this image why there was an autistic thread the other day saying special and physical attackers aren’t proper descriptors?

>>58881610
No, that's the usual shill pretending to be a genwunner

>>58874497
gen 5 was good and it's a shame we never got gen 5 GS cup

>>58879551
Articuno has more usage than Pelliper, Cresselia, and Sneasler FUNNY

Any one got a team paste to crush Bolt balance sick of the match up to be honest.

>>58850261
That's why
> lets slap op stats on misdreavus and call it a new pokemon !!!
was a mistake. now you know the reason why can't get high or you will die.

>>58850261
Try actually looking at the top 16 of several Reg F tournaments.
https://www.pokedata.ovh/

>>58882753
Omega based

>>58849540
Super fpbp

>>58882753
wb

>competitive pokemon
only autist manchildren play this garbage lol no wonder palword is winning

>>58882753
I have been playing Gen 3 OU lately and I find It really fun. Anyone else playing old gens?

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>>58884739
Competitive Yujiro is for balding fedora wear nerds

>>58885608
how did he become asian?

>>58885625
took years of using clothespins to hold his eyes until they froze that way

>>58884739
lol

>>58885013
Older gens and lower tiers are pretty much the only way to play without getting mad

>>58881298
In best of 3 your Tornadus is Taunt bait unless you lead Farig next to it, but then you have a lead with no pressure. Run Dark Tera, Mental Herb or increase your speed. Roost is useless on Articuno; commit to the specs and go all out on damage.

>>58888619
I run dark tera on Torn.

>>58874497
>[schizo babble and fanfiction]
The only one meta that you could call truly bad in all those years was 16 and even then Primals The Game showed a million times more development and creativity than all SV VGCs combined.

>>58889007
Reg I was way better than most double restricted formats.
If you couldn't find a way to make a lesser restricted work, then that's on you.

>>58884739
lmao

>>58882753
kek you're here too

when champions brothers

>>58889956
April is the start of Champions tournaments in most areas of the world.
I suspect it will release on Pokemon day, giving people 1 month~ to prepare teams and acclimate.

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>>58889956
>Pokemon Day is on February 27th
>a Pokemon Presents is always on the same day
>The current SV season ends on February 28th
>Champions format is supposed to start in April
So we are either getting Champions shadow dropped shortly after the Presents OR they will run one more season on SV and reveal a March release date for Champions.

I just wanna Champions soon, fuck everything.

>>58890420
I want the fucking new mega abilities

>>58890420
Well it's 100% dropping soon. The official format switches from SV to Champions in April.

>>58890427
>RANKING EVERY NEW MEGA FROM ZA FOR COMPETITIVE VGC
^ I am sick to death of seeing these videos pop up on my yt feed when there is zero way to know how good/bad the new megas will be without their abilities.

>>58890399
sv will just roll over to a forever season like swsh has, regardless of when champions comes out. the in game ladder doesnt mean much; the irl format is the one to pay attention to (though i agree on/right after pokemon day is likeliest)

>>58889017
reg I was the best restricted format weve had in as long as ive been following vgc. its sv's non-restricted formats that have been cancer

Is Screens Grimmsnarl not a thing anymore?

God I hope the theory of Champions removing IVs (auto sets all mons to 31) is true. Hunting 0 atk or 0 speed legendaries is the most cancerous shit.

>>58889017
>If you couldn't find a way to make a lesser restricted work, then that's on you.
I love your preemptive cope because you know your argument has holes to begin with.
I accept your concession.

>>58891464
It’s almost like IVs have always been shit and should have been removed from the games ages ago.

>>58891464
I'd be okay with them being gone. It's like running level 49 Pokemon to get an advantage in Trick Room. It's a novel concept, but it makes the game needlessly more complex.

>>58891464
From what little footage we've seen there doesn't seem to be a way to adjust IVs in Champions. So it's either going to be the best possible outcome: All IVs set to 31 automatically. OR it's going to be the worst case scenario: IVs still matter so you are at a disadvantage for using the 31IV rentals if you need something with 0 spd or atk.

>>58892022
You'll be disadvantaged and you'lo like it.
They have to sell you on the superiority of having your own pokemon somehow and that's an easy way.

>>58891269
Wynaut

>>58892361
The disadvantage is having to grind to unlock the rentals.

>>58892361
The disadvantage is having to see that shit

>>58891985
Based

>>58894817
Having to see what shit anon?
You probably would be able to locate IVs even if they were shoved up your ass.

>>58891985
natures too

>>58895669
Natures actually add strategy and variety to the game. IVs however are always a 31 or a 0 and affect basically nothing except making trick room mons slightly slower.

>>58896069
IVs are still useful, mons should not all be born the same.

>>58895351
I knew they were small but damn

>>58896086
And they should absolutely remain for the single player campaign. For pvp, though, a level playing field is better.

>>58896069
The original purpose of IVs was so that no two Pokemon of the same species would be the same (or at least, there would only be a 1 in 887503681 chance).

>>58896086
>>58897262
They've been adding mechanics like size and marks so pokemon can still be different from each other without it affecting their stats.

>>58897261
You have access to the tools to make teams, it is level.

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Isn't it odd that this is potentially the last month before competitive pokemon is known by normies worldwide? Champions is bound to be a massive success just like Pocket and will introduce the masses to a relatively niche scene. Everything is going to change in an instant.
>vgc threads hitting bump limit in an hour
>wifi threads booming as people try to get the mons they need to send over to Home
>normies venting their frustration of common meta threats on twitter
>youtube feeds flooded with champions content
>e-celebs pushing champions to top views on twitch
>fanart related to vgc getting created and posted everywhere
>showdown servers flooded with new players wanting to test teams
>finding random normies irl that constantly play champions on their phone
>everyone laughing at Wolfe even harder whenever he loses to a rando in a tournament
It's gonna be bizarre.

>>58897370
The same could be said for Chess yet you don't see it everywhere.

>>58897486
How the fuck do you come up with that comparison of all things?

>>58897370
Some of these things have been true for at least a decade
>People here and elsewhere like Reddit asking for Pokemon with old Ribbons that will become lost once Bank goes offline (E.g. National from Colosseum / GoD, Legend from HGSS, generic Hall of Game ribbon from the Gen 3 games)
>Showdown always has had spikes whenever a new generation comes out
>A lot of people already laugh at Wolfe already but he is undoubtedly a good player

>>58897597
Champions being available on mobile is going to cause a much larger surge of players than the release of a new generation.

>>58897629
True, and Champions is the only reason I’m interested in trying VGC again after the last time I played was 2016

>>58897370
>>58897629
I understand, see, and honestly kind of half-agree with your points.
I think that it'll end up mostly like >>58897597 said. This will just be the next VGC "spike" that's been happening for generations now.
It will certainly be bigger than normal because it's mobile, that's for sure, but ultimately, I think it won't reach the levels you're thinking of.
I remember how when Mastersex came out people went "It's over, all other gachas are finished" and when Unite came out people went "It's over, all other mobas are finished" and at the end of the day they're both mid-range games in terms of popularity, and that's being generous.
Pokemon is a very very VERY casual franchise. Any competitive of any of it will always be only for the tryhard giganerds.
There's GO, massive casual playerbase, but how many do play competitively? I did a quick check now and apparently regs hit consistently +100 people. It sounds like a lot but that's also fucking nothing when you think about it. Granted, I know fuck-all about GO so maybe there's other reasons or maybe I checked wrong.
What you're calling will happen in the short-term for sure, but I really really doubt people will stay in the long-term for the same reasons VGC has never caught up and become a "real e-sport" until now. Champions being more accessible will not change the core gameplay of competitive Pokemon. Casuals don't like having to memorize an entire wiki to be able to play a game, much less understand what the fuck they're watching on-screen, and last but not least casuals HATE competitive centralization.
People will try it out, some will stay, but I believe the great majority of people will dip out as time goes when they realize how ass competitive Pokemon is. That's how I think things will go.