I prefer dq

>>12351426
That's funny, it's what I always hear but even to this day I could beat dragon warrior smoothly and enjoyed it but I keep dropping FF1 halfway through because I get bored out of my mind.

>>12351426
Nah, FF is boring as fuck. Once the Dwarves open the path to the rest of the overworld it becomes an unbalanced mess.
Dragon Quest is simple(and shorter). Doesn’t overstay its welcome with pointless clutter.

>>12351426
You should be comparing FF to DQ3 since they released about 2 months apart. In which case DQ3 mogs so hard it's insane. Except for the menus, that is something FF does better.

Dragon Quest 1 and 2 were already out when Final Fantasy was developed.
Compare Final Fantasy to Dragon Quest 3 now.

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>>12351426
>FF mogs
What about them?

>>12351426
>t. faggot de Chocobo

>>12351426
This is like saying that DOA Mog's Virtua Fighter 1

>>12351450
>>12351456
>>12351467
And even then I would still play DQ1 Ober FF1

>>12351426
DQ4> DQ3> FF3> DQ2> FF2> FF1> DQ1

>>12351490
You had to shit the lost with the worst DQ on top
>shitty chapter structure
>instead of making your own party you get characters like any other boring jrpg
>can't even give them commands
>starts the trend of linear DQs
DQ4 was the biggest downgrade in the seires

>>12351458
Kek

>>12351503
>the worst DQ on top
its not the worst as you can see from the post

>>12351503
>>instead of making your own party you get characters like any other boring jrpg
Oh man, this sucks.
In Dragon Quest 3 I built a lovely party of martial artist, mage and priest.
Meanwhile Dragon Quest 4 only allows me to pick between established characters, so I get a party of martial artist, mage and priest instead.

>>12351534
The worst in the nes, didn't brought anything new to the table either
>>12351579
You can make your healer class change into a fighter that heals, no such think in 4 because it's a step back, the new "feature"? You can't control your party

>>12351436
>Doesn’t overstay its welcome with pointless clutter.
>makes you grind for hours just for 1 level up or you can't progress
uh huh

>>12351598
You level up as you explore.

>>12351603
I assume you've only ever played the SNES or GBC or some other remake version of the game, because that's not remotely true for the NES and Famicom versions.

The NES dragon quest are better than the NES Final fantasy

>>12351597
>You can make your healer class change into a fighter that heals
Cute in theory, doesn't really work in practice.
Reclass your priest early and they will never learn any of the late game spells.
Wait until the end of the game and then you have to grind all the way back until your characters catch up with the hero, and then they will still suck anyway because fighters don't earn any MP and are low on wisdom.
The only reclass in the game that would make any sense would be mage into priest, but the sage class completely invalidates that strategy anyway.

I think FF is more of a slog. You have to grind almost immediately and for a while. Once you get the boat you're in for a long grind.

>>12351618
You are supposed to make someone else your main priest with bonus mage spells/bulk.

>>12351503
>shitty chapter structure
That is the biggest issue to me. You're constanly playing the first few hours of a JRPG, without a full team. The game gets good when you've already been playing for so long you'd have already finished the whole of DQ1.

>can't even give them commands
This made regular combat extremely boring, but I have to say trying to find a way to make my team do what I want them to do while swapping people from the wagon made the final boss way cooler.

>>12351579
>>12351618
I started DQ3 with a merchant, priest and mage. I finished with warrior, martial artist and sage. DQ4 doesn't give you that option. But I'd say the wagon is a good enough tradeoff for not being able to change classes. Anyway, my logic was:
>early game there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in between the warrior and the merchant, the warrior is better but not much, and the merchant has cheaper optimal equipment on top of getting slightly more money. Start merchant and change to warrior ASAP
>Priest becomes a martial artist to get extra speed to cast heal and surround as fast as possible on top of not needing money for equipment. Ended up being the one using the heal orb in the final dungeon
>Mage becomes sage if I need extra priest spells since the ex-priest has low MP.
Worked well enough to beat the game with no grinding, but I did spoil myself on what equipment and spells were available.

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Final Fantasy also has a much better art style. Dragon Quest is too cartoony. Never liked their aesthetic.

>>12351638
Name one iconic enemy from FF1.

>>12351648
the group of 50 pirates where if you dont have a mage in your party the fight takes an hour.

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>>12351638
Maybe the concept art. The monster sprites in FF1 look so low quality to me in comparison, pic related, a green dragon in both games.

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>>12351648
Dark Wizard (Sorcerer)
and the WarMech

>>12351503
>>starts the trend of linear DQs
Does it really? Once you take control of the hero it opens up vastly similar to 2 and 3. DQ5 was pretty much on rails for the entire game.

>>12351426
Now try ultima on the nes

>>12351597
>didn't brought anything new to the table either
lol

>>12351648
Imp

>>12351490
DQ3>DQ4>FF1>DQ1>FF3>DQ2>FF2

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>>12351661
>WarMech
The Chaddest of Chads. How can DQcels even compete?

>>12351426
The two aren't comparable since they released like 2-3 years apart.
Compare to DQ3 instead

>>12351730
>released
lol, we got DW3 in 1992 in the states. early jrpg releases were fucking retarded.

>>12351490
nah
DQ3>FF3>FF1>DQ1>>>>DQ2>FF2>DQ4

fuck ai control party members that never do anything right, dq4 is atrocious, literally the worst design decision imaginable

AI companions let you embody the idea that you are the hero at the end and that you've gathered a party of powerful people to help you. Functionally, it sucks due to the poor implementation, but conceptually it's kinda neat.

>>12351767
The ai is pretty well done though. They learn with you and eventually take out enemies as efficiently as possible.
The only realy flaw is Psaro counting as 7 separate enemies so after each phase your party just loses all information against him.

>>12351832
They learn only for the duration of that one battle.
The intelligence is not persistent, and the characters will go full retard again at the start of the next battle.

Unless you're thinking about the AI of the following games, where they are based on the character's wisdom and become overpowered as hell, being more efficient than the player, since they take the best action on the spot, instead of having to commit to an action at the start of the turn.

>>12351598
>dq1 has more grinding than ff1
It’s all so tiresome
>>12351606
Well you assume wrong nigger

If you cant appreciate one of the best storytelling devices introduced all the way back in 1989 to let you get invested in a party member then we have nothing to talk about.

>>12351978
The NES version of DQ1/DW1 definitely has far more grinding than the NES version of FF1. It's not even close. You can't even progress to the second town in DQ1 without grinding in place earning 1-3 gold per fight in order to buy the most basic equipment for dozens of gold total. Meanwhile in FF1 you can immediately buy enough equipment to march straight over to the Temple of Fiends and face Garland. Then you can use the gold you earned from that to upgrade your shit and continue straight on to the next town.

>>12352028
>you don’t have to grind if you have the whole game memorized
this is not a valid argument.

>>12352028
NTA but as long as you're exploring and know to run away and go back to town to heal, you can definitely get to the second town without grinding. When I first played NES DQ1 I tried beating it while never grinding and it was almost possible. I had to get lucky with the sleep spell to beat the dragon and armor bosses but ended up having to grind in the end because the Dragonlord was a stat check I couldn't pass.

>>12352038
Also NTA but the whole muh grinding meme is retarded. The game wants you to explore the map and fight enemies while you explore. People that whine about grinding are always using guides and maps and they are mad that the game gatekeeps them after they tried to cheat their way through it. If you play it like a normal person the game doesnt feel like a grind. The game does get kind of unfair near the end but whatever. These kids pick the dumbest shit to crash out on.

Arguing over which turd is stinkier. These games have aged tremendously and are not worth your time. Try FF7 or DQ8

>>12352047
>If you play it like a normal person the game doesnt feel like a grind.
I played Dragon Quest 1 like a normal person, I explored everything I could until I got to a bridge that I wanted to cross, on the other side of that bridge was an enemy I could not beat and he killed me. How should I proceed as a normal person, turn the game off or should I kill monsters in the current area for an hour to get stronger?

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>>12351426
>casually mogs both

>>12352058
>try the most movie games of each franchise
No thanks

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>mogs every game in this thread

>>12351603
Tell me about your exploration path in DQ1 for famicom then. I start the game, hit a few enemies, buy gear at the starting town. Venture off to Garinham per NPC suggestion. Can't afford anything. Venture to the east, per NPCs at Kol. Can't afford anything there. I probably have fireball and have died a couple times by this point. NPCs are now talking about the dark cave. Going through the cave, or over the bridge to the west towards the mountain cave both put me with enemies that absolutely mog me instantly.

What exploration am I meant to do at this phase to be an appropriate level without grinding?

>>12351618
Ah, this explains why Maam sucked so much in the second half of Dai no Daibouken.

>>12352118
I'm:
>>12352038
But the cave is indeed where I was starting to have trouble. Luckily dying allows you to keep all exp and half of your money, that and running away from tough encounters allowed me to get through. Also killed the dragon after trying a few times and getting lucky with the sleep spell as I said. I was always poor, always had to choose between upgrading my weapon or armor. Definitely a game made with grinding in mind, even if not as much grinding as people usually think you need. FF1 is way better in that regard, I'm slowly going through it, just got through the volcano after unlocking the upgraded classes, still didn't need to grind once.

DQ1 absolutely requires grinding, just like Hydlide before it.
DQ2 is much smoother with just slight bumps in difficulty here and there but Rhone and Hargon's Castle require grinding like the first one.
I just played DQ3 completely blind with no guides and didn't have to grind at all.
FF1 is only hard around Marsh Cave and Earth Cave. Especially once you get magical items like Heal Helmet and Thor's Hammer the game is completely trivialized.

>>12352118
You want a tip for DQ1, save your money. Don't buy every piece of equipment in the line. You can especially skip Half Plate Armor for Magic Armor with the same defense stat. Equipment from the Garinham store is the one you want as early as possible. You don't need the shield right away. Dragon's Scale is your friend, equip it from the item list.

>baby game mogs this other baby game
Sorry RPGs can't mog anything, not even each other lmao

>>12352224
Get out, shmupfag. Your turbo autism deserves nothing but pity.

>>12352224
>waah, a genre i don't personally like
as an rpg fan i wish more devs hated rpgs instead of trying to market their games as them. rpgs mogged the industry.

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>>12351648

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>>12351648

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>>12351726

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>>12352314
And no, that's not his dick.

>>12352170
Thanks, appreciate the thoughtful answer. I've lucked my way through the tunnel as well and then... couldn't kill a thing on the other side. Haha

>>12352321
that pic does nothing about assuring me it's not his dick

>>12351503
TRVKE

>>12351426
>84 page handbook
holy fuck!

>>12352036
I'm not talking about having the whole game memorized, I'm saying that pretty much any party that isn't some kind of meme single class party or something can defeat Garland without any additional leveling. Someone playing the game for the first time will need to explore and will naturally accumulate more EXP and gold than they even need before finding Garland and beating him, which will set them up to be well on track for the next town which they will again have to explore to find and accumulate gold and EXP on the way.

This all stands in stark contrast to DQ1, where EVEN IF YOU HAVE THE GAME MEMORIZED you will always STILL have to stop in place and grind for a while at certain intervals to get new equipment or get your level up to a certain point before you're strong enough to even SURVIVE a direct trip to the next destination, let alone meandering exploration.

>>12352047
I'm speaking from the experience of playing DQ1 and FF1 completely blind. I don't use guides for games, not even on repeat playthroughs. In FF1 you can absolutely just level up and earn gold naturally from exploring, but in DQ1 you will experience several hard stops where you literally can't survive exploring the area you're currently meant to be in until you grind out some extra levels in the previous area. You even have to do that right at the start of the game, so new players will be automatically trained into the rhythm of stopping and grinding before exploring too far.

>>12351767
Good list

>>12351867
>Unless you're thinking about the AI of the following games, where they are based on the character's wisdom and become overpowered as hell, being more efficient than the player, since they take the best action on the spot, instead of having to commit to an action at the start of the turn.

This is false and it's pretty obvious when you start a turn at full HP, get fucked, and your partner heals you on the same turn. In the NES version too.

I'm actually not sure about the learning being persistent but considering you're talking out of your ass for the second thing, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same for the first thing.

>>12352390
Almost every console JRPG that came out in the west came during the 8-16bit era came with its own strategy guide, including A-RPGs in Europe.

>>12352170
>>12352326
You inspired me by the way. Went back to it. I'm finding there's a natural rhythm to go through cave, make it to key city with enough gold to buy a few keys, die, and then explore the first continent unlocking doors. Leveling up nicely but not really getting any closer to new equipment for the time being. Fuck I love DQ1

>>12351653
right is way better
which game is that?

>>12351653
and btw I'll guess that left is DQ and right is FF1, and it actually proves the exact opposite of your point, which is that the Toriyama shit looks great in concept art but in game not so much. Meanwhile the FF1 implementation looks fantastic.

You can imagine the DQ dragon looked great in concept, its open-mouthed face very expressive and threatening in a funny kind of way, with lots of little details like the green-colored claws, the kind of shit that Toriyama does so well. Meanwhile FF dragon looks good, but undeniably more generic.

But in implementation, the sprite itself? The DQ sprite is just garbage. No shading, lots of missing lines and no borders between colors. The FF1 dragon looks awesome in comparison, with a very tasteful and carefully implemented sprite with excellent use of colors and shading.

>>12352750
>This is false and it's pretty obvious when you start a turn at full HP, get fucked, and your partner heals you on the same turn
That's literally what I described. Your ally will react on the spot and heal you on the same turn instead of having to wait until the next turn to pick an appropriate action.
Fucking illiterate.

>>12353350
NTA but it's really a matter of taste, I think he's retarded to post that like "DQ IS OBVIOUSLY BETTER" but I also like it more. Especially paired with the manual art, I think it's a really effective use of the pixel art medium to convey the creature in limited detail, and the style of the game in whole was sans dark outlines. The dragon being creative and more unique goes further for my imagination than the more technically competent piece of art from FF.

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>>12353350
I disagree completely, Toriyama's art and his DQ monsters in particular look fantastic on NES precisely because of their apparent simplicity. That FF1 dragon for instance looks messy and hard to read, and the perspective is super weird. DQ monsters on the other hand leap off the screen and almost feel three dimensional.
Trying to have too much detail at such low res, and FF monsters tend to be lower res than DQ's in general, just doesn't work well on NES.

FF games have some nice monsters too, but monster design is one of DQ's strongest point.

>>12353356
>NTA but it's really a matter of taste,
No, it's not. At least, not what he was claiming.
Most of what you like about that sprite comes from the concept art, not its implementation. You're just lucky there's enough left in the implementation to identify the memorable traits. The FF1 spritework is just straight-up more competent. This is in spite of the FF1 sprite being smaller and using fewer colors.

It is likely the FF1 sprite artists would have done a better job implementing Toriyama's dragon. If the spritework had been swapped, I can pretty much guarantee you'd still be here defending the Dragon Quest version (although if they had been swapped, it's unlikely I'd be critical here as I have no horse in this race, I barely played either of these games as a kid and have no attachment to either one).

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Take a look at NES Dragon Ball 2 and 3, these use extremely small low res comic pannels and yet the art looks amazing, it's quite an amazing feat that Toriyama's art translates so well in pannels that are 32*48 pixels, it works precisely because it's not trying to cram in too much details.

>>12353350
Look at the dragon's faces. There is no detail in FF's. What the hell is going on with its wings? They look like they're pointing the wrong direction on top of being of different sizes. The perspective is weird too. In general FF1 monsters to me look horrible, look at this:
>>12351638
it's hard to even understand what's going on, not even the first one in this thread as this anon:
>>12352321
had to post concept art to clarify an unclear sprite, even though the sprite was zoomed in as I guarantee I couldn't make head or tails of what kind of creature Astos was supposed to be when playing.

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>>12353384
Astos' face expression looks aboslutely retarded compared to the concept art as well. DQ monsters don't have this problem, quite the contrary.

>>12351638
>dq is too cartoony
>meanwhile ff has chibis clashing with giant pirates

>>12353367
>I disagree completely,
Not for any good reasons.
>Toriyama's art and his DQ monsters in particular
My point is about that ONE example in particular of the green dragon.
The FF1 dragon is better spritework than the DQ dragon and nothing in your post refutes that claim.
>Toriyama's art and his DQ monsters in particular look fantastic on NES
Yes most of those look a lot better than the previously posted Green Dragon, but that wasn't the comparison.
If we're broadening the context, we should note your image has literally NOTHING but large monster sprites and text. They invested all of their artistic and graphical effort into the monsters. The FF battles have background art and player sprites with rudimentary attack animations. FF battles also support more enemies (9 enemies, vs 5 max for DQ4).
Furthermore, DQ4 512k game from 1990 and FF1 is a 256k game from 1987. Not even a fair comparison technically yet FF1 holds up remarkably well.
>That FF1 dragon for instance looks messy and hard to read
This is not a remotely fair or objective assessment. It's not messy or hard to read at all.
>the perspective is super weird
There's nothing weird about the perspective. FF doesn't use 1st person battles so it's a top/side perspective instead of head-on. That's it.
>monster design is one of DQ's strongest point.
In fact I'd argue that for the early games in the series it's the ONLY strong point aesthetically, with the overworld map a distant second place. The field maps (towns, dungeons, etc) in Dragon Quest are generally pretty bad, consistently worse than Final Fantasy no matter which NES games you try to compare.

>>12353384
>Look at the dragon's faces.
I'm looking at the entire sprite and the quality of the spritework, because that's the relevant comparison.
The FF1 dragon has a beaklike snout with the mouth clearly underneath and not visible, given the top/side perspective. The fact that you're seeing this as some kind of flaw just points to your failure to be objective.

>What the hell is going on with its wings?
They are wings. There's nothing "going on" with them.
The dragon is turned slightly, and viewed from a top/side angle. The dragon's right wing is slightly behind its left wing, from the viewing perspective. So the wing appears smaller and the joint is hidden behind the body.

>The perspective is weird too.
No, it isn't. You aren't processing it properly for some reason but that's your fault, not the art.

To be clear, I haven't posted any other concept art or comparisons in this thread. I was specifically responding to the guy who hilariously posted the picture of the green dragons as if it was self-evident slam dunk that the DQ was superior when it's obvious to anyone with the least bit of objectivity that it's not. Astos isn't a particularly great sprite although it's memorable enough that it was re-used in later games.

And come on, the tail is not that fucking hard to parse. Nobody actually thinks he has a dick hanging down to his ankles.

>>12351430
based blizzards mog

>>12351426
Both have merits
>DQ
One man vs the world, every town is basically an upgrade in equipment, threesome with tavern wench and princess, 1v1 battles don't waste time
>FF
Hokuto no Ken with four monks

FF6
DQ5
FF4
FF5
DQ4
DQ3
FF3
FF1
DQ1
DQ2
FF2

It's the truth.

>>12352680
Your equipment is much more important than your level in early game in DQ. In the first room on the game you are given enough gold to buy a weapon and armor, and you didn’t do it. Because you are an idiot. The end.

>>12356735
>>12356735
>enough gold to buy a weapon and armor
How I can tell you didn't play the game. You're 10 gold short.

>>12351490
abhorrent taste

>>12356827
Club and plain clothes. Suck my dick faggot.

>>12356893
If you get the clothes instead of earning 10 gold for the leather armor you are actually retarded. Failing the marshmallow test level retardation

>>12356910
You get one gold for every slime. You get 4 gold for every ghost. if you get the clothes and the club you can defeat the ghosts right away and skip the slimes. You just admitted your own flawed reasoning necessitates grinding, not the game itself.
>muh marshmallow
Yuji Hori is not trying to trick you.
It’s hilarious to watch you scramble to gatekeep me tho.

>>12356735
>In the first room on the game you are given enough gold to buy a weapon and armor
And you still won't be strong enough to handle enemies that show up less than halfway to the next town.

>>12351426
These games are so looooong. Why they cant make a short and sweet jrpg.

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>>12351426
Throughout its early years, SquareSoft's business strategy consisted almost solely of stealing other people's ideas. Many of its first efforts were inferior copies of other games, which might have been why the company performed so poorly to begin with. Final Fantasy itself was a Dragon Quest clone that never would have existed had Enix not broken the mold. But the difference was that it was the first time one one of Square's ripoffs was an improvement on the original. Not that that in itself was some momentus achievement, mind you. Dragon Quest is something like a Ford Model-T within the video game sphere: innovative, popular, and tremendously influential, but ultimately a damn jalopy.

I've taken some flak for badmouthing Dragon Quest before, but let's face it: as far as the earliest installments are concerned, there's really no contest. Final Fantasy is the superior software. It's got better music, more items, more spells, more monsters, a richer world, and a more interesting storyline, and this is all just quantitative. Final Fantasy's customizable four-man crew eclipses the first two Dragon Quests' one and three-character parties. The expanded and improved turn-based battle system makes for a deeper game, inasmuch as the player isn't sitting around drooling for hours at a time while his one character trades 1 HP blows with a single monster. The concentration of early-genre bullshit is significantly reduced: there isn't as much EXP grinding, the player doesn't have to buy or find keys to open a hundred thousand locked doors, and never has to stress over how many torches he's got left. There's none of that "press the A button and select the 'Stairs' command to walk down a flight of stairs" nonsense, either. Dragon Quest may have come first and concocted the JRPG, but Final Fantasy made it good.

>>12357049
if you think Dragon Quest 1 is long then holy hell

>>12357256
Let me guess, Final Fantasy 1 as a kid, Dragon Quest as an adult?

>>12353372
i think it's cute that Toriyama tried to draw in a pixel art style when asked for monster designs for DQ but the staff was confused why he did this and told him to please just draw normally again and they'll convert it to pixel art

>>12357256
Dragon Quest is ripping off Ultima and Wizardry. FF1 is ripping off Ultima and D&D.
Japan as a whole didn't come up with hardly anything innovative with regards to RPGs, they just stuck anime aesthetics onto them.

>>12356256
Oops can't read

>>12351701
This.

>>12351426
I recently replayed DW with a cheat to start the game with Erdrick's Armor, and it made the game much more fun.

>>12357042
embarrassing
>>12356934

>>12357049
read one book this year

>>12357312
Dragon Quest brought a lot of genre standards to the table.

No more open ended but level scaled world exploration bullshit
No more weird leveling systems were you have to pay gold or rest to just get your stats reduced
The normal MP system instead of dumb charges (which FF didn't copy for some reason)
And probably more things you take for granted in modern rpgs that were not present in Ultima or Wirzardy

>>12359282
Newsflash games aren't books and not all books are good and with reading.
Games also aren't shitty TV shows.
A good RPG is 10% to 15% cutscenes with average scene length of around 5 minutes. Exceptions prove the rule.

>>12359464
>No more open ended but level scaled world exploration bullshit
Phantasie did this first. Wizardry never had scaling. Exploration was dumbed down and soft-gated in a pseudo-open world.
>No more weird leveling systems were you have to pay gold or rest to just get your stats reduced
Leveling is simplified and sanitized, just like the rest of the gameplay, to not confuse children, nothing innovative.
>MP system
Utlima 3 (!983) and Phantasie had spell points.

>>12357049
>Why they cant make a short and sweet jrpg.
They did, it's DQ1. Unfortunately they didn't keep it this way for the sequels, although 2 is still on the shorter side.

>>12359598
Wizardry exploration all happened in a dungeon, no overworld, not the same thing.
>Exploration was dumbed down and soft-gated in a pseudo-open world.
Yeah to give a sense of progress instead of a glorified easter egg hunt were all encounters in the world are the same
>Leveling is not innovative because it's not tedious
You mean it's not retarded, why the fuck should you get weaker at a level up or go through obtuse menus to raise each stat individually? It's not complex or confusing, just dumb
>Ultima did it
Last time I checked you needed ingredients which is the most retarded shit ever, mages already have limited spells working against them they don't need to be gimped further.
>muh literally who phantasie
So decrepit pc games don't count as Ultima/Wizardry rip offs now?

>>12359676
>Yeah to give a sense of progress instead of a glorified easter egg hunt were all encounters in the world are the same
Yeah, encounter tables. Standard stuff.
>You mean it's not retarded
No, I mean, it's just standard numbers go up like many other RPGs which proceeded it.
>Last time I checked you needed ingredients which is the most retarded shit ever
Spell components are great for balancing spell usage. Easily refillable MP pools are really lame.
>So decrepit pc games
Never heard of it, huh? It sold better in Japan than the US. It was ported there extensively. They played it and loved it, even made a Jap only sequel.

The fact is that you barely know anything about early RPGs, so you attribute innovation to popularization. RPGs are a western genre.

>>12359707
>standards
Yes standards thanks to fucking DQ that's what I was fucking saying, they were not standards before. Who the fuck wants to get weaker instead of stronger or suddenly have to pay to level up.
>Spell components are great for balancing spell usage.
That's what the numbers are for, having to buy shit just to cast spells just makes things more tedious and worse
>Easily refillable MP pools are really lame.
No they are the best but the new divinity games did it even better, treating spells like any other skill with cooldown and no more magic bar or stupid charges just to screw mages over forcing them to go back to town or rest after every encounter.
>never heard of random old ass game huh you're not hardcore for playing decrepit shit like me!
>west east west east!!
Missing the point it come after Ultima and Wizardry so "it's automatically a rip off like DQ"

>>12359730
>Yes standards thanks to fucking DQ
It's not like D&D had stat loss. Having no training cost for levels is just a dumbing down, not really innovative, just makes levels feel a little less earned. You magically get better in the field rather than having to have experience be bolstered with training.
>That's what the numbers are for, having to buy shit just to cast spells just makes things more tedious and worse
Once the pool becomes large enough and replenishment easy enough, there's no limiting factor to using the strongest spells. Components and spell slots allow you to create really powerful spells.
>Missing the point it come after Ultima and Wizardry so "it's automatically a rip off like DQ"
Yes, even Wizardry is a ripoff of Oubliette, but Phantasie did things like overworld travel and side view combat, that Wiz and Ultima didn't and it preceded DQ1 and FF1 and was certainly played by the people who created those games. The point is more that Japanese contributions to RPGs are minimal, not that they weren't all building off of each other.

Hey, it's okay, you were easily impressed and have bad opnions on design.

>>12359794
>Having no training cost for levels is just a dumbing down, not really innovative, just makes levels feel a little less earned.
Don't really want to get into this autistic shitfest but you have to consider the way RPGs were being translated into videogames and not every idea turned out well. While I'd agree that eliminating a training cost is somewhat of a dumbing-down, video games are also strictly focused on a few limited aspects of an RPG (and none of the social aspect). The result is that certain dynamics are relatively insignificant hassle with pen and paper become a chore when other aspects of the game are eliminated and made more efficient.
A certain amount of hassle can be a valid cost but there comes a point where there's no meaningful difference in challenge or fun, it's just a pointless hassle.

Identifying those dynamics and streamlining them does also count as innovation, even if it's easy to give more credit than is due.

>>12359794
>you magically get better in the field
Ah yes because all those battles mean jack shit, noooo you must go through the specific menu at the camp/resting/training hall then it's magically earned despite just being a totally unnecessary hassle that also requires the same fucking experience.
>>12359794
You shouldn't have to go Walmart shopping for roots just to cast/create spells, no one does this shit anymore for a reason.
>but this random ass old game did it first (and worse)
Yeah no one really cares if pac-land did scrolling before SMB

>>12357256
>Throughout its early years, [LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE GAME DEVELOPER]'s business strategy consisted almost solely of stealing other people's ideas. Many of its first efforts were inferior copies of other games, which might have been why the company performed so poorly to begin with. [LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE GAME] itself was a [LITERALLY SOME OTHER GAME] clone that never would have existed had [LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE GAME DEVELOPER] not broken the mold. But the difference was that it was the first time one one of [LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE GAME DEVELOPER]'s ripoffs was an improvement on the original. Not that that in itself was some momentus achievement, mind you. [LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE GAME] is something like a Ford Model-T within the video game sphere: innovative, popular, and tremendously influential, but ultimately a damn jalopy.

>>12359464
Besides the fact that every single thing you posted is WRONG, as you were already raped by another anon, the dumbest thing you said is your opinion on magic: FF1's DND-derived charge system is SIGNIFICANTLY better and more entertaining than "magic points" as it's one of the fewer walk-tile-random-fight RPGs to foster a sense of long term strategization and resource management. You truly are a brainlet if you think the dumbed down kiddie mode magic point system was ever better.

>>12359876
>this desperate for another chance he is samefagging now
>I love being only able to cast low level fire 3 times despite being worse than a fighter's attack
There is a reason 3 warriors and 1 white mage is the best combination, black magic sucks because of the charges

>>12359928
>black magic sucks because of the charges
Black Magic sucks mainly because spells have no scaling factor and most are under-powered for the cost or outright broken. The next thing is the scarcity of rest points and lack of recharge items. The spellpoint system is 3rd place at best.

INEFFECTIVE
INEFFECTIVE
INEFFECTIVE

>>12359928
>There is a reason 3 warriors and 1 white mage is the best combination
That sounds expensive as fuck, you should swap out at least one fighter for a black belt.

>>12352685
I thought it was just okay

>>12351469
This. FF1 was always bad. The DQ games were at least good for their time. FF didn't get good until the Super.

>>12361463
Yeah because you suck