and im convinced that zoomers wont get past any of the games we used to play that had secrets, and the only reason you people can beat them is because we wrote all the guides in gamefaqs before you were even born

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>>12358896
>lines of cope
keep crying retarded boom boom

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i never had an issue with the barrel
>jumping didn't work
>hmm... what if i try pressing up and down on the d-pad
>it works
>mfw

>>12358906
this guy gets it

>>12358896
Talk about record time cope.
>>12358906
This is what people with an IQ above 95 did. I never understood why people struggled with the barrel.

>>12358892
>>12358906
Yeah it's so easy. There are 7 possible inputs on the controller. 3 of them do the same thing (jump). So you have 4 inputs to try. 2 of them are correct. It's not rocket science. Hell it's not even basic math.

>>12358906
The problem is that jumping does indeed come with in millimeters of working, and makes more sense than U/D inputs, so you're inclined to just think you're not good enough at it. Because honestly that's an actual test of skill and timing, U/D is simply pointless.

>>12358940
You shouldn't spend more than 10 or 15 seconds on trying that, though. It's a Sonic game, it's supposed to move quickly.

>>12358940
That's like saying bashing your fist against a nail, instead of using a hammer, works. Look! It moved slightly.

>>12358940
this, and the fact that the U/D mechanic is never used anywhere else in the game

>>12358906
Jumping does work tho. You can actually time your jump perfect and get just under it. That's the problem.

>>12358986
It would be more like if you suddenly grabbed a nearby heavy object to use as a hammer when the hammer is right there next to you.

it's shit game design and that's the obvious end-all be-all about it. objectively speaking.

>>12359083
No because jumping doesn't work in any reasonable timeframe. It would be like hammering with a tennis ball.

>>12358901
one sentence sent you spiraling

Nobody who played Sonic 3 as a kid without already knowing about the barrel beforehand tried pressing up and down right away without jumping on it for at least 5 minutes first.

>>12359063
But L/R is used in other similar mechanics (screws/tops) so it’s analogous. I figured it out quite quickly my first time, U/D made sense to me like I was pumping my weight on a swing to build inertia.

>>12358901
>”ur dumb”
>we figured it out before you were even born
>”WOW SO MANY WORDS AND SUCH COPE!”
pathetic

>>12358896
got xir hard

>>12359883
Exactly. Sonic stands on the barrel and goes into the similar locked animation where you use the directional buttons to move the object. I never had a problem with the area when I was a kid. I didn't know it was an issue until many years later on the internet where I met low IQ individuals complaining about it.

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the real high iq move is getting stuck on it
only chimps start bashing random buttons when faced with an obstacle

You can tell the Sonic fans who lost the plot by those who defend the barrel. I have no clue how anyone legitimately pressed up and down to move it, there's no reason for any kid to think that they aren't timing their jumps right since it almost makes it.

>i tried jumping on the barrel for 5 minutes
>because i'm wicked smart

>>12360035
you have the deductive reasoning of a brain-damaged retard. it's ok, it happens. but don't try and concoct up some excuse like everyone else is the problem.

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>>12359482
>>12359887
clitty status: leaking

It's an elephant of a room

>>12360052
>>12360054
This is basically what I mean by "lost the plot." It's just a funny shared experience from our childhoods but Sonic autists feel like it points out a flaw in their favorite game, so they have to overcompensate on pretending that the barrel should not have been an issue.

>>12360410
The only overcompensation here is your freudian mental gymnastics to excuse your getting stuck on a very simple puzzle that many others had no problems with.

>>12360064
>shartypedo buzzwords

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>shartypedo buzzwords

Considering I was a sega kid who didn't even hear about this being a problem until a few years ago, at this point it feels like either revisionism or projection when people bitch about having to press down in sonic 3.

>>12360485
>https://info.sonicretro.org/Carnival_Night_Zone#The_.22Barrel_of_Doom.22
the only revisionists are the retards trying to claim it wasnt an issue when there is so much evidence that it was an issue that it's legitimately the most infamous thing about Sonic 3 even in front of Michael Jackson's involvement

>>12360491
There was no "evidence" when everyone you knew didn't have an issue with it as stupid kids in the ghetto, retard. If anything most of the people I knew were key candidates for failing the IQ test, but they never did. And since I was the sega kid while everyone else had SNES, I watched pretty much every one of them playing it for the first time. Most of them would try to get on top of it and spin dash, then notice it moved and fuck around with the controls. I don't doubt it was a thing, just that it feels more like something people wouldn't admit out of shame than this forced "it was terrible design" cope.

>>12360496
yeah it's a giant conspiracy to excuse the fact that we struggled in a level of a Sonic game as children

>>12360491
>For the younger demographic less adept at puzzle solving, Carnival Night Zone Act 2 was often as far as they could reach
kek IQ issue indeed

>>12360521
Thats not what I said at all, and the fact thats what you took from it makes me think you must have been one of the idiots trying to stuff a round peg in a square hole. Again, I'm saying that most people who fucked it up used to be embarrassed by the fact, not bragging about blaming the game for their own incompetence. Your article even mentions it, like >>12360562
points out. It was a consequence of a disproportionate number of people being too young or retarded to figure it out.

>>12358906
But like the other faggots are saying, jumping ALMOST works. It sets your train of reasoning along those lines and means you have no reason to consider there may be new mechanics and previously unused inputs associated with this specific hazard.

I spent hours trying to glitch past with Super Sonic, as he had more mass/momentum. I tried spamming bubble shield slams. At best those tactics clip you into the wall and you have to wait for the level time to run out.

TERRIBLE level design.

>>12360594
see >>12358949

>>12360594
>I spent hours trying to glitch past with Super Sonic
You just press up and down man

>>12360575
>I'm saying that most people who fucked it up used to be embarrassed by the fact, not bragging about blaming the game for their own incompetence
I don't know, man. it's just a funny shared experience. or not shared
I'll never experience getting to the barrel and trying to press up and down intuitively
you'll never experience getting to the barrel, almost getting through by timing your jumps, and then wasting your time trying to get it right like it's supposed to be a challenge and you just have to get better at it
and the world moves on
until next week when we have this thread again. I'll be here, bragging about being a six year old who was too smart to accept a bad gane mechanic

>>12360594
>I spent hours trying
Yeah you're fucking retarded
4 possible inputs and you spent hours bashing your head against a barrel

>>12360640
I'll also never experience sitting under a urinal while its in use but, you know, I'm ok with that. Having a dumbass moment isn't the issue, its the fact that so many people's first instinct is to blame the game rather than acknowledging it was a failure of problem solving on their own part when they had all the tools they needed. Its not something to be proud or entitled about, the normal reaction would be to go
>Shit, I didn't think of that. Oh well.

>>12360652
Hope Yuji Naka sees this, bro

Imagine being dumb

>>12360662
Why would you assume a Japanese creative who sees people are too retarded for his expectations to be anything but apologetic and pandering? The issue in the design is essentially that he thought anyone who got stuck for more than a few seconds would try to use buttons on the controller in conjunction with the one part of the environment that stuck out like a sore thumb. The intuition being to either look up or down to scroll the screen and look for a way out. The likelihood of those two things occurring is high enough, but since one of the only techniques you have for breaking walls is the spin dash, that adds another layer of accidental discovery. Shit like >>12360594
claiming they had super sonic unlocked but couldn't figure out how to press down when it was one of their only options is fucking Rainman tier, since they would have had to have been able to figure out how and where to find enough special stages, as well as actually beat them, before getting to that point. That could only really happen if they got caught in a tourist trap using guides and save states yet still couldn't use those handicaps to press down in a sonic game.
I'm sure Yuji weeps for the collective IQ of humanity from the amount of people who complain about such a simple, inconsequential puzzle, let alone their reactions to it. Its probably up there with the furry fandom in terms of him questioning his impact on the world.

>>12360685
I don't think he's going to read all this, bro.

>too dumb to figure out a puzzle with 7 possible inputs (3 of which do the same action, 1 takes you off the puzzle so really just 3 possible inputs total)
>cope by claiming you're too smart to figure it out and that anyone who figured it out is lying and trying to impress the creator
Holy mental illness batman

>>12360686
Yeah, I know, still felt like it needed to be said. The worst fear of a developer is overestimating the capabilities of your intended audience, which is why we live in an age of yellow paint. The wheels on that shit went in motion further back than people realize.

>>12360496
It is terrible design though for a sonic game unless it was A: a quick addition to the level to stop-gap an edit somewhere else that they couldn't add something like a ramp or whatever, or B: literally just a dev being a dick by throwing in something that goes against everything you played in the game so far.

Plus the whole fact that the obvious assumption of how to get around it does in fact work if you are persistent enough, so you have a group of gamers who assumed that indeed was how to get beyond it and did little to correct others.

I don't know why people are ignoring the 2 previous barrels that you get through by jumping that reinforce the idea that jumping is the correct method. It's a legit trap whether you're "smart" enough to eventually mash all the buttons or not

>>12360652
The natural reaction is "wow, thats what you do? That's retarded, but ok i guess."

Standing still goes against the very franchise. Even if it was a big sign that told you to stand still and input exactly what you have, regardless of how simple it is, it's still a retarded "puzzle" to come up with in the first place and i would love to know why its there.

>>12360709
So you're too dumb to instantly recognize that the barrel has different physics behavior? Okay that's weird.

>>12360701
>>12360712
This is what I mean. You're allowed to be a dumbass sometimes, but defending your dumbassery and crying for vindication is an inability to mature. This isn't some Simon's Quest tier bullshit, you're specifically confined to a small space to prevent you from wandering off away from the solution. Its the game design equivalent of a pop quiz with fucking clown music playing.
>Standing still goes against the very franchise.
And yet its used countless times in the series with various mechanics, including ones that completely destroy inertia or punish reckless movement. Sonic was never a fucking endless runner like some of you mongoloids seem to think. Its a game where going fast is the reward for playing well, not its default state. Think of it like you're in retard jail until you figure out how to escape back to the rest of the game.
>>12360709
That is known as a "Red Herring."

if you got filtered by the barrel, you're retarded. end of story.
literally the /vr/ equivalent of an IQ test.

>>12360725
>Its the game design equivalent of a pop quiz with fucking clown music playing.
kek

>>12360643
Yeah, yeah. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, you smug bastard.

I persevered and eventually figured it out, and the fact that it's such a trivial solution ADDED to the frustration. I had schoolmates who abandoned the game at that point though. Decades later I would learn that it was an infamous player-filter, and a case study in game design done wrong, up there with that unintuitive ledge hang at the start of Flashback's second level.

>>12360738
Me: Actual fact
You: Anecdotal drivel

>>12360685
>claiming they had super sonic unlocked but couldn't figure out how to press down when it was one of their only options is fucking Rainman tier

There are a LOT of special stage rings in Marble Garden.

>>12360767
And you're claiming to have found them all on your first playthrough, but you couldn't figure out how to press down? If you used a guide, fine, but the guide would have told you how to get through the room you were stuck on.

>>12360772
I had played previous levels multiple times by that point, and watched others playing the game. And actually I did have a strategy guide, and it didn't mention that fucking barrel at all. It just showed the level map continuing from that point and evidently assumed players would just get it.

Look, it's a poorly introduced gameplay mechanic. If you figured it out, well done. The rest of us retards (and there are literally thousands of us) were using all of the available information up to that point.

- Up to that point in the game (hell, the SERIES) no obstacle had ever been navigated like this. Certain spinning obstacles lock Sonic in place, the way to manipulate or escape these is by running left or right, or jumping.
- The previous instances of spinning barrels in Carnival Night didnt require any manipulation to progress past. If the player noticed them at all, they were registered as just another fiddly obstacle among the other bouncers and anti-grav obstacles.
- On reaching that barrel and becoming locked in place, most players would instinctively jump off to look for another route. In jumping off, the barrel bobs down. This immediately engrains the idea that progress down past the barrel is achieved by jumping.

>>12360803
The fact you're trying this hard to justify it has always been my point. Its not about not figuring it out immediately, or even at all, its about this mentality of that being a failing of the game and needing comfort in that opinion, which is fucking stupid and misplaced. Game design didn't become fully retard proof until the 2000's, having things be esoteric or even misleading was nothing new when sonic 3 came out. Secrets in levels were the same principle, they usually involved having to go either the wrong path or through hidden walls in order to find. The Barrel of Doom was less esoteric than any of those, but it wasn't intuitive enough to do it for you. The only concession I would give would be regarding the red herring of the barrels reacting to jumps, but even then, it shows that the barrel DOES move. A reasonable intelligence would then say that the barrel moving is the key, and that manipulating it might require a different approach. The reason I compare it to the shape blocks shit is because its literally that level of critical thinking, and a disappointing amount of people failed that test, but refusing to accept any responsibility for that and wanting the game to accommodate them is just being mentally spoiled. Put shit into perspective and compare it to your average Roberta Williams dead man walking scenario that started 4 hours ago and realize you're making a big deal about not getting hints while not being punished for failure, with up to 10 minutes per attempt to figure it out in a safe and controlled environment with what essentially boils down to 5 buttons that would do anything, with 2 of those being a correct choice.

>>12360861
I don't disagree at all that the solution is trivial. I'm not trying to "save face" or protect my ego. I was 11 years old and probably autistic. It's not that big a deal. I'm just here ranting about old games while I neglect my adult responsibilities for a while, same as you.

What I'm saying is that in the context of 2D Sonic games, it was an uncharacteristically obtuse roadblock to progress. Its not even as if its an optional challenge that reveals a cool secret, or one of two branching paths through the level - it's there, unavoidable, in the only possible route through the level, representing both a bottleneck and a speedbump. It's inconsistent with the game design, this is the first and only time the game throws this kind of bullshit at you. It's a frustration to those who don't immediately grasp what to do, and it's not a particularly fun task once you've worked it out. The game would have lost nothing of value if it had simply been omitted.

>>12360882
>I don't disagree at all that the solution is trivial. I'm not trying to "save face" or protect my ego. I was 11 years old and probably autistic. It's not that big a deal. I'm just here ranting about old games while I neglect my adult responsibilities for a while, same as you.
Good on you, then. Understand that when I said you I was referring more to your position than you individually. Criticism of this puzzle in almost all cases stems from a position of inferiority complexes, because for most people who don't take it that far, they just shrug it off and don't fall for it again.
As for it being a forced moment to rethink things, I'm pretty sure that was the point. Sonic games can make it very easy to miss things between level flow and speed, and Sonic 3 in particular was a game that was designed with multiple routes in mind, even before playing it with the addon cart. I always took it as the game forcing you to keep that in mind, especially since the solution involves the same buttons used for looking up and down specifically. The only way it was a roadblock is the same as any roadblock is in the series: Progress stops, and you have to do some shit like hit a switch or interact with the environment to move forward. The complaint will always be about not thinking to press something other than jump.

>>12358892

https://youtu.be/3XeBgeN5uG8

>>12358892
Im happy for you lil bro, your sonic 3 skill set will surely take you far in life

>>12360725
>Think of it like you're in retard jail until you figure out how to escape back to the rest of the game.
Ok, but it's still a dumb design and i have yet to see a single shred of evidence to the contrary. Even when you figure it out, it's still universally considered dumb when something like a spring or booster would make infinitely more sense considering the rest of the game or something that actually uses momentum (no one said sonic is an endless runner).

It's like if a shmup had a boss where the way to beat it is to stop moving and let yourself get it. Sure, you can absolutely program that in, but it's still going against everything else you have been doing and it's going to be critiqued.

>>12358892
i mashed buttons on the barrel and noticed movement and figured it out from there

>>12360969
>Ok, but it's still a dumb design and i have yet to see a single shred of evidence to the contrary.
Here's your evidence, countless people played and beat the game in the days before readily available home internet access. It didn't require Nintendo Power, or GameFAQs, or any of that horseshit and the average person either wasn't even phased by it, or figured it out in a short period of time. Your entire premise for what you consider evidence is flawed because you're operating under the assumption that games didn't regularly do shit like that, and you're trying to force sensibilities from today on what was an extremely milquetoast example of a non-intuitive problem solving scenario.
> Even when you figure it out, it's still universally considered dumb when something like a spring or booster would make infinitely more sense
What the fuck logic is that? Limit stage interaction and creativity to just different colored sprites for springs and call it a day? Even the game gear games tied their puzzles into the stage better than that most of the time.
>something that actually uses momentum (no one said sonic is an endless runner).
The endless runner comment was regarding this notion people seem to have that sonic is about holding right and going as fast as possible at all times, like an endless runner. Sonic was never that, and speed was very specifically designed to be a reward for playing fast. Part of why people hate Marble Zone in 1 is because the levels are extremely slow when played safely, but a lot of the cycles are set up so that going fast makes you line up with most of them. Having to slow down or even come to a complete stop is a normal thing in the games, and its a big part of why the game gear ones even work, but its suddenly the worst thing in the world when people need to spend a minimum of about 15 seconds not just holding right apparently.

>>12360969
>It's like if a shmup had a boss where the way to beat it is to stop moving and let yourself get it.
What kind of retarded false equivalence is that? Do you beat the Barrel of Doom by running into a nearby spike or something?
>Sure, you can absolutely program that in, but it's still going against everything else you have been doing and it's going to be critiqued.
It doesn't go against the rules of the game any more than a leap of faith, hidden paths or going behind walls, or any of the other times that mechanics are purposely made out of playing on expectations. It literally is just a refusal to adapt, and more importantly, constant validation for ones own stupidity. Just accept you made a stinky and move on instead of dragging the game through the mud because you realized it was a simple solution.

>>12360915
barrel bros have been real quiet since this dropped

>>12360976
not everyone can be a genius like you

>>12361590
Is it the video where he apologized for thinking too highly of the players? Considering it was much less obscure than something like the emerald stages in Triple Trouble. Those types of appearances tend to be more around gaining fan support than pissing them off, so I wouldn't exactly expect him to come out and lament being asked about it by the sonic fandom of all people for over a decade at that point. Especially if they know how to read a room, hence why they cracked jokes about it instead.

>>12360803
>And actually I did have a strategy guide
LMAO

>>12360965
you've only played 25% of Sonic 3 (in the room)

>>12360035
Barrel defenders are shitposters.

>>12362271
>EVERYONE GOT STUCK AT THE BARREL
untrue

>>12362274
No, not everyone got stuck at the barrel. Wouldn't be saying that since even I got past it eventually. Now, if you're telling me you didn't struggle with it for even a minute and immediately tried pressing up and down, you're full of shit.

>>12362279
>a minute
Way too long. If you tried jumping on it for longer than 15 seconds before pressing up and down, you're retarded.

>>12362287
(You)

>>12358892
I was stuck on the Sandopolis act 1 boss for a longer time than I was on the Carnival zone barrel.

>>12360719
Compared to what, the other two barrels where you have to use up/down to make it tilt high enough to jump over an obstacle?

That's not to mention that Carnival Night already had that floating platform with the balloons on the bottom that only lifted up if you let them sink down a bit before, if you just jumped it stayed in place. That too is a different physics behavior.

>>12360772
Angel Island and Hydrocity literally throw you at special stage rings, if you are good you'd have them all by Marble Garden, let alone Carnival Night.

>>12362318
I mean you can mind gymnasium cope all you want but most people had zero problem figuring out which of the 4 distinct inputs affected the barrel. The barrel was obviously distinct so why would past behaviors affect it? Retarded cognition.

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>>12362291
Cope, retard.

It's really really easy to figure this out knowing it was a problem and knowing the solution before hand through cultural osmosis, it's the same problem Zelda 1 has.
You can never solve this through the lens as a child in the 90s, and you're a moron for writing off a very common issue people had with this level of bias, lil bro

>>12362878
I was a small child in the 90s and it was the easiest shit ever. No guides, no internet, just me and a controller. Get not retarded, retard. You're probably a homo too.

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>>12362878
nice cope low IQ boom boom

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>"this has been posted a thousand times before"
>date: March 1st, 1994
>Sonic 3 release date: February 2nd, 1994

>>12362878
Hindsight is 20/20. Anyone can claim they easily figured something out by themselves 30 years after everyone else figured it out.

>>12358906
Jumping actually does work to get underneath areas for some barrels in the level, just not that one. So, if you happened upon those earlier barrels and did that, you could be led to believe that this particular one is just more difficult to do it with but still possible.

>>12358892
I got past it and still think it's retarded puzzle design, but that's always to be expected from Sonic Team. Jumping on the barrel gives visual feedback in the form of the barrel bouncing with the momentum of the jump, but the solution involves Sonic perfectly still while the player presses up and down and the barrel itself moves for some reason. It's so dumb.

>>12363467
I easily figured it out in 199X.

>>12358906
>jumping didn't work
Brain dead fucking retard

>>12363573
It doesn't work easily as the intended method

>>12363554
I don't believe you.

>>12363842
Sad, truly pathetic cope.

>>12363554
Well, we're now in the near future of 20XX